Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Everybody saw this coming.

Giving up is unforgivable.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

Let there be snark.

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

I’m starting to think Jesus may have made a mistake saving people with no questions asked.

“Alexa, change the president.”

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

The unpunished coup was a training exercise.

Republicans do not trust women.

When we show up, we win.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

White supremacy is terrorism.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Good lord, these people are nuts.

“A king is only a king if we bow down.” – Rev. William Barber

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

A norm that restrains only one side really is not a norm – it is a trap.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / David Brooks Giving A Seminar At The Aspen Institute / You Wanna Throw Up Here or In the Car? I Think… Both.

You Wanna Throw Up Here or In the Car? I Think… Both.

by | 115 Comments

This post is in: , ,

I agree with much of what DougJ says here, but I think this false dichotomy is unfair:

Whether this is because they too dumb/lazy to fact check the high-minded stuff or whether they’re knowingly pushing lies, I can’t say.

I see no reason why it can’t be both, as well as the fact that many of them know where their future paychecks are coming from, a lot of them may actually fact check but are too stupid to realize what they are looking at, some of them have their ideology and it can’t be failed, etc. If we’re fair, we’ll have to admit there are lot of reasons why these folks are clowns, not just the either/or scenario DougJ created.

Reader Interactions

115Comments

  2. 2.

    Southern Beale

    Thought you guys might want to take a look at Megan McCardle Bargle Garble’s defense of her “liberal bias in academia” post.

    Here she goes into the many different kinds of bias, and how some biases are more pernicious than others.

    None of which seems to address the actual issues people had with her post which was: facts are facts — and we all know they have a liberal bias.

  3. 3.

    Ugh

    there are lot of reasons why these folks are clowns,

    I’m reminded of a line from Good Morning Vietnam, about someone being in more dire need of something than any man in history.

  4. 4.

    DougJ®

    the fact that many of them know where their future paychecks are coming from

    Doesn’t that fall under “knowingly pushing lies”?

  7. 7.

    El Cid

    The most convincing propagandists are usually those who believe what they’re saying.

    And I hope we’re done with — as suggested above — this false notion that we should always assume stupidity over malice. In our daily life, that may be a good assumption; but in politics we’re dealing with people brimming over with malicious aims.

  8. 8.

    BGinCHI

    When people lie because they are dumb, which is also because they are lazy, it’s called Ronald Reagan.

    Or, as a verb, Reaganing.

    “Sarah Palin was Reaganing when she claimed that the ACA included Death Panels.”

  9. 9.

    cleek

    Whether this is because they too dumb/lazy to fact check the high-minded stuff or whether they’re knowingly pushing lies, I can’t say.

    what about: they know better than to look too hard for conflicting evidence.

  10. 10.

    Morbo

    Wow, I forgot they tried to throw the Muslim Brotherhood into that mosque fear-mongering. Anyone watching Fox & Friends to confirm if they’ve tried to bring this full circle with Mubarak stepping down?

  12. 12.

    dr. luba

    OT, but the local headline today: “GM says it’ll pay hourly workers bonuses topping $4,000.”

    Why do I suspect that right wingers will be very upset about this?

  15. 15.

    cleek

    @dr. luba:

    Why do I suspect that right wingers will be very upset about this?

    because: for each X, the probability right wingers will be upset about X is indistinguishable from 1.0

  16. 16.

    El Cid

    Sort of related, we might be a bit more cautious in using analogies with sheep to suggest stupidity.

    Sheep aren’t as stupid as previously thought, according to [Cambridge Univ.] researchers.
    __
    Never considered particularly intelligent, sheep are actually so smart they make ‘executive decisions’ and have long memories, remembering friends for two years.
    __
    They can remember faces, be they other sheep or human, and can recall faces when looking at photographs, University of Cambridge scientists said…
    __
    …[The researchers] subjected seven female domestic sheep – or Ovis aries – to a series of tests normally carried out on humans with Huntingdon’s [sic].
    __
    What they found amazed them.
    __
    The scientists placed pairs of different coloured buckets in front of them; with one containing food each time.
    __
    They them switched the food from bucket to bucket, while also alternating the colours and, eventually, changing the shapes of the buckets.
    __
    The sheep learn[ed] to recognise different patterns in colours and changed their behaviour according to the pattern they were looking at. They also altered their behaviour based on the various shapes placed in front of them.
    __
    Only humans and other primates find these kind of responses easy; most other large animals struggle with them, the scientists said…

  17. 17.

    Gina

    I haven’t listened yet, but Yale law prof Dan Kahan is studying what he calls “The American Culture War of Fact”. But, he’s clerked for Thurgood Marshall so he’s obviously a DFH himself. Or some snooty East Coast type who thinks he’s better than real ‘murikens. So, McMegan can ignore him.

  18. 18.

    p.a.

    Sully’s back today, and he’s at 110% already: unrest in Iran (his main raison d’etre) and ideological disputes at CPAC (signals a REBIRTH of CONSERVATISM). It’s almost like the universe has conspired to give him a big, wet welcome back kiss. And on Valentine’s Day no less.

  22. 22.

    freelancer

    @DougJ®:

    Do you have to be so shrill? I mean, it is SO unserious of you to step outside her narrative and point out the hypocrisy of someone in her position decrying ideological biases and ivory towers. And the “Ban Me” was a great touch.

  23. 23.

    Tom Hilton

    Both is certainly a reasonable option; so is it doesn’t matter. The level of willful ignorance necessary to propagate the typical wingnut line makes it, IMO, exactly as culpable as deliberate deception.

  29. 29.

    Citizen_X

    @geg6: I was about to post that link. I highly recommend that post; it’s Glennzilla at his best. Apparently, calling politicians, from any* country, liars is the worst thing a journalist can possibly do.

    *Except, of course, from bad countries like, say, Venezuela.

  31. 31.

    p.a.

    And now Sully is going after Obama for being fiscally irresponsible- because he won’t savage Social Security. And to think we were worried about his health.

  32. 32.

    shortstop

    @p.a.: Sully defenders resemble no one so much as Charlie Brown flat on his back sans football. The definition of insanity, 1000 times, etc.

  34. 34.

    Bulworth

    @p.a.: And he’s slobbering all over Daniels. Gee Whiz. Wasn’t Daniels the head of OMB when Bush II was destroying the budget surplus Clinton passed to him? Indiana isn’t occupying two countries while cutting taxes.

  36. 36.

    Bulworth

    @p.a.: Meanwhile, Social Security has been generating $100 billion surpluses, every year, for the past two+ decades. Now those days are over and the Fed government has to pay that money back. Hence, the attack. But I guess we still can’t talk about raising taxes on anyone ever, even if our “crisis” is worse than the Civil War or WWII.

  37. 37.

    jrg

    @A Commenter at Balloon Juice (formerlyThe Grand Panjandrum):
    Beautiful. Gotta love this comment, that found it’s way to the top:

    The fact of the matter is that “conservatives” have failed to uphold their stated principles once in office, so to whine and complain that libertarians are destroying the conservative base fails to hold any water.

    Looks like the morons are starting to catch on.

  39. 39.

    jl

    Good (or bad) day for lazy/dishonest journalism. With the budget fight apparently officially on, the social security nonsense is out in force. Heard four reports, all naming social security as one of the big budget busters.

    But, for next 20 to 30 years, social security is only a budget buster if the federal government decides it does not want to pay back the money it borrowed from social security to fund tax cuts for the rich and a foolish and immoral adventure in Iraq.

    But cutting social security only affects the lesser people, so not paying back the loans is not a default, see, it is just another one of those hard choices and necessary shared sacrifices that only seem to fall on ordinary people (alas, so sad, they are very sorry about it).

    Disgusting display of ignorance or dishonesty on the news this morning.

  40. 40.

    ruemara

    You know something, both sides do it. case in point, Katrina VandenHuevel’s recent tweet regarding this, http://t.co/E0G4FoT, an article about the new budget. How was it framed to her thousands of followers? “Prez once again @ risk of preemptively making concessions that encourage opponents & demoralize allies.” WTF? The article doesn’t say that all. In fact, nothing within the article truly discusses the cuts hes making. Anything to attack the president and no one pushes back at all.

  41. 41.

    bemused

    It’s not one reason or another. It’s what John said and more, a smelly stew of justifications.

  42. 42.

    Judy in SD

    Read the title to this post and thought we were going to be treated to a marvelously amusing story of Tunch’s trip to the vet concerning problem mentioned yesterday. Alas not this time.

  43. 43.

    Chris

    Conor Friedorsdorf: stupid whore, or goatfucker? I can’t tell, since there’s a plausible-sounding argument for each side.

  45. 45.

    trollhattan

    @p.a.:

    And now Sully is going after Obama for being fiscally irresponsible- because he won’t savage Social Security. And to think we were worried about his health.

    Ah, the renowned Tholian punctuality Sully innumeracy.

    Seems a universal conservative limitation–whether Oakeshottian or wingnuttian–is not knowing that which they do not know. Sully simply can’t wrap his brain around maths, which is pretty handicapping when you think the nation’s biggest problems are fiscal.

  46. 46.

    Svensker

    @Morbo:

    I can’t help but think that post title is asking for trouble with three pets around.

    I immediately figured it was about Rosie puking in the car while Tunch sprayed anal gland juice everywhere. If I didn’t read BJ, those kinds of thoughts wouldn’t be in my head.

    Speaking of anal glands, what’s happening with Tunch?

  48. 48.

    Phil Perspective

    Gee Whiz. Wasn’t Daniels the head of OMB when Bush II was destroying the budget surplus Clinton passed to him?

    Part of Dubya’s term, yes. I believe Portman was another one as well.

  50. 50.

    Stefan

    Speaking of anal glands,

    I can gladly go the rest of my life without hearing another sentence start this way…..

  51. 51.

    Ash Can

    @DougJ®:

    She told me she’d ban me if I brought up hiring practices at the Atlantic again.

    LOL! The truth hurts, doesn’t it, Meggie?

  52. 52.

    geg6

    @Svensker:

    Speaking of anal glands, what’s happening with Tunch?

    I do hope Tunch is okay, but how happy am I to have missed a thread in which such things were discussed?

    Edited to add: And not being a cat person, I could have lived the rest of my life without knowing cats even HAVE such things in their asses.

  53. 53.

    jl

    @Judy in SD: Ha. Me too. I expected a pet crisis story where Cole is covered with some disgusting pet excretion, or at least had to clean up some disgusting pet mess, and Cole fwew up from it.

    Oh, well.

    Maybe next time.

    Not that I am sadistic towards Cole, and actively look forward to reading that kind of post, but… I dunno, the title indicated more disgusting pet adventures that ended badly for Cole. Or maybe I am actively sadistic wrt Cole… Note sure to be honest.

    Edit; I second commmenters who demand a high level Tunch Briefing.

  54. 54.

    matoko_chan

    @DougJ®: and the reason Cole has one of those morons frontpaging here…..is?
    so that we can mock him and troll the LoOGies for our graduation practicals in DougJ’s Troll Academy?

    how stupid are they anyways? they fucked us over, destroyed our economy, killed hundreds of thousands of distant brown people, and now because stratification of cognitive ability and Dr. Manzi’s Theory of Distributed Jesusland they get to try to do eeet all over again.
    an they are gonna keep trying until the demographic timer sends the glibertarian/bankstah/judeochristian/socon shaitan bargain into the dustbin of history.

  55. 55.

    Yutsano

    @geg6: It does throw the whole “We’re created” trope for a loop though doesn’t it? If we’re all made from the noodles of the FSM, then what the fuck is the purpose of a cat’s anal glans? Or for that matter, the human appendix? Huh? Explain that Mr. Creationist!

  56. 56.

    p.a.

    @trollhattan: We may bust his balls a lot, and deservedly, but I believe a Republican Party made up of Andrew Sullivan-types that got to run things every few election cycles would be a million times better than the current crop of grifters and mouth-breathers in the party now. He’s come a long way from the ‘5th column’ days, and I don’t sense a potential for reversion as far as that goes.

  57. 57.

    Herbal Infusion Bagger

    ” see no reason why it can’t be both, as well as the fact that many of them know where their future paychecks are coming from, a lot of them may actually fact check but are too stupid to realize what they are looking at, some of them have their ideology and it can’t be failed, etc.”

    Some say conservatives and glibertarians are stupid bastards. Others say they’ve evil fucks.

    Friends, we need to move away from this division and sectarian bickering to a consensus position.

    Let’s unite around the proposition that they are stupid evil bastard fucks.

    Can’t we all get along?

    [with apologies to the late Bill Hicks]

  58. 58.

    p.a.

    @trollhattan:

    Sully simply can’t wrap his brain around maths, which is pretty handicapping when you think the nation’s biggest problems are fiscal.

    wonder if/when the Tory/LibDem economic disaster in GB will register with him. sadly, I can see him doubling down: ‘they didn’t cut enough…’ rather than changing his opinions beliefs.

  59. 59.

    trollhattan

    @DougJ®:

    Good one! But holy moly, the majority of commenters there essentially reinforce Cole’s point up top: it’s both.

    The wankfest includes many who’ve decided “teh data” show Bush to be smarter than Obama. Yeah, that’ll take you far.

  60. 60.

    General Stuck

    Wingnuts engage in politics to win, that is their only guidepost to virtue. If a lie suits that ultimate purpose, then that is what it is, same is true for telling a technical truth.

    Like the Fox that declare he should be hired to guard the henhouse because he has a lot of experience at that. This is a true lie. Or, he/she claims there are terrorists and tax and spend liberals holding the henhouse hostage and wingnuts must be deputized to make things right. This is an untrue lie. Then there are the Palin’s of the world that claim every bad thing said about them is a lie, cuz they are purty and white and shut up, that’s why!

  61. 61.

    matoko_chan

    @DougJ®: and Master…..may i call your attention to what i consider the perfect analogy?

    matoko_chan – February 13, 2011 | 10:58 am · Link
    __
    and if you want proof, just check out the apes discussing philosophy conservatives discussing science threads at the League.
    another gem from uberearnest Jason.
    __
    Jason SEZ—strongly suspect that most non-scientists who say otherwise about relativity are either talking out their asses or else have turned relativity into a sort of well-boundaried micro-religion.
    __
    DougJ—This is bullshit. Plenty of non-scientists have heard of Michelson–Morley. The speed of light is constant, even when you move towards the light source.
    __
    It’s just not that complicated, unless you’re an idiot.
    lollololollloo1111

    its fucking RUDE but its true. there are only two kinds people on the Right anymore.
    stupid or dishonest.

  62. 62.

    Southern Beale

    @DougJ®:

    Doug’s comment at McMegan’s:

    Nearly everyone who currently blogs and or once blogged at the Atlantic was for the Iraq War: you, Sully, Crook, Goldberg, Douthat, Yglesias.

    It’s pretty clear that establishment media discriminates against people who aren’t reflexively pro-war. And this isn’t a left/right thing either, a conservative like Daniel Larison will never get a real gig because he’s not pro-war enough.

    It’s quite laughable for you to spend however many thousand words on why professors should be rounded up and sent to re-education camps to cure them of their “liberal bias” when your own profession is one of the very worst in terms of systemic biases.

    Well done, sir!

  64. 64.

    Southern Beale

    @p.a.:

    It’s almost like the universe has conspired to give him a big, wet welcome back kiss. And on Valentine’s Day no less.

    Well and downthread I posted a Wonkette item about an Alaska massage therapist who said she worked on Sarah Palin when the gov was supposedly 7 mos preggers and there was NO bun in the oven.

    Sully has to be swooning at that.

  65. 65.

    matoko_chan

    @p.a.: Sully is just another conservative shill, and when he makes a nonaltruistic headfake towards citizen rights or Palin truthiness it is just as the lede to link Douchebag or McMegan and gush over hidden catholic awesomeness.

    he’s just as dishonest as all of them.

  66. 66.

    trollhattan

    @p.a.:

    I don’t disagree, and I like Sully’s positives more than I edge well away from the negatives, but would a Sully-like leading Republican ever be able to set his preconceptions far enough aside to being in and empower true experts (fiscal in this case) rather than task the job to true believers? I don’t honestly know.

    And yes, it’s still a vastly better scenario than what we have with Today’s Republican Party(C). [Salutes smartly]

  69. 69.

    Sly

    OT, but Shawna Forde has just been convicted of the murder of Raul Flores and his nine year old daughter, Brisenia. Jurors are now weighing whether or not the death penalty should be applied.

    I only bring this up because the story generated some interest here a few weeks ago.

  70. 70.

    matoko_chan

    @Southern Beale: it is related.
    lissenup.
    THERE ARE ONLY TWO KINDS OF AMERICANS ON THE RIGHT ANYMORE.
    STUPID OR DISHONEST.
    otherwise they would flee the Right like scalded cats like Cole and I did.

    and use a double underscore instead of a blank line for a line break.

  71. 71.

    trollhattan

    @Southern Beale:

    First, learn the Zecret Handshake(tm). Then, use the completely magical trick of placing two underscores on a blank line between quote paragraphs, with just one open and one close quote command at the beginning and end. I’ll attempt it to see whether I’m lying.

    Quote something hilarious.
    __
    Quote something hilarious.
    __
    Quote something hilarious.
    __
    Quote something hilarious.

    M’kay, it works.

  73. 73.

    matoko_chan

    @Southern Beale: and you know what else?
    the reason McMegan is making her bathetic plea for affirmative action for IQchallenged redstate youth, IS FUCKING SALAM-DOUTHAT STRATIFICATION ON COGNITIVE ABILITY. Reihan Salam and Ross Douthat FUCKING DEFINE IT ON PAGE 154 of their opus magnus, Grand New Party.
    and they CAN’T MENTION IT.
    because they can’t do anything about it.
    Conservatism in America has become memetic selection for stupid.
    and even their smart people are retards.

  76. 76.

    danimal

    @Bulworth: Sully needs to take more time off. I couldn’t believe he thinks Mitch “Mr Bush budget guy” Daniels is anything but a fiscal disaster in waiting. How the hell is Daniels a deficit hawk? Words mean things; budgets mean a hell of a lot more. His budgets put us in this mess; he’s literally THE GUY who formed the structural deficit that Sully is supposedly against. What an absolute moron.

  78. 78.

    catclub

    @Yutsano: Employment for surgeons!

    That was easy.

    Don’t mention those surgeons apparently have to ‘fix’ the creation of an omnipotent, omniscient, only-good being.

  79. 79.

    danimal

    @geg6: Greenwald makes an excellent point in his column. The MSM is dying in large part because they are afraid of calling lies lies. Whether it’s misinformed ethics or a cold business decision is up for debate.

    (See, I can say something nice about Glennzilla. The post was less than 10K words and only has one update. It’s readable. Yay!)

  80. 80.

    matoko_chan

    @danimal: jeezus Sully needs to look at a pic. Daniels is a tiny 5’3″ bald guy who basically looks like he naturally has no pubes at all.
    never happening.

  81. 81.

    Yutsano

    @catclub: I’ll mention that to my agnostic gay surgeon friend in New York. He’ll get a good chuckle out of that. Of course he also has three Galtian overlords to contend with too, so he’s lucky if he can appreciate breathing.

  84. 84.

    Marc

    Young Conor deserves all the criticism he’s gotten here today, but I don’t know why we expect any better from Sullivan. The blogfather feels betrayed because Obama isn’t pushing Simpson-Bowles:

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/02/obama-to-the-obama-generation-youre-on-your-own.html

    No, you jackass, he isn’t telling the kids “Screw you,” he’s telling them they don’t have to work until they’re fucking seventy.

    And he follows it up with a Bobo quote praising the “public heroes” who bravely want to cut other peoples’ social safety nets. Shoot me now.

    And as for Friedersdorf… the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.

  85. 85.

    asiangrrlMN

    @geg6: This is a good article. GG should stick to things like this.

    I’m with Cole (though I, too, thought this post was going to be about animal shenanigans). They’re malicious, lazy, stupid, and just all-around fuckers. Oh, and I hope Sherrod takes Breitbart to the cleaners.

  87. 87.

    geg6

    @matoko_chan:

    Meh, it’s another one of Sully’s many fascinations with dimwit “fiscal conservative” GOPers. Daniels, as all GOPers are wont to do these days, will undoubtedly say something insanely idiotic and Sully will post bitterly about how he was taken in. It’s exactly what happened with Paul Ryan, Sully’s most recent crush before Daniels. If you read the post, he’s praising the Pauls, frere et fils, and calling them his second choice if Daniels doesn’t get the nod. He knows nothing at all about them, obviously. When he finds out what and who they REALLY are, he’ll fall out of love with them, too.

  88. 88.

    MattR

    @Marc: Seems like the right place to link to Bernie Sanders’s op-ed in the LA Times. (It’s hard to pick out one bit to excerpt)

    Further, despite the manufactured hysteria about a crisis, Social Security has not contributed one penny to the very serious deficit situation the United States faces. Social Security is fully funded by the payroll tax that workers and their employers pay; it’s not paid for by the Treasury. Our deficit has been, in recent years, largely caused by the cost of two wars, tax breaks for the rich, a Medicare prescription drug program written by the insurance and pharmaceutical industries, and the Wall Street bailout — not Social Security.
    __
    Why has there been such a concerted effort to privatize Social Security, raise the retirement age or cut benefits? First, Wall Street stands to make billions in profits if workers are forced to go to private financial establishments for their retirement accounts. Second, as the Republican Party has moved far to the right and become more anti-government, there are more and more Republicans who simply do not believe government has a responsibility to provide retirement benefits to the elderly, or to help those with disabilities.

  89. 89.

    p.a.

    @matoko_chan:

    authoritarians are BOTH stupid and dishonest.
    hybrids i guess.

    the leaders are dishonest and vile. the base is stupid, angry and SCARED. Terribly scared of everything that has happened since some mythic American Golden Age. 1920’s for some, 1890’s for others, maybe WW II for more. I’m not excusing the fear; it has made them terribly aggressive, dangerous.

  90. 90.

    freelancer

    @Marc:

    I read this too. Did Obama “friendzone” Sully’s mom or something? Suddenly it’s GBCW and he’s jumping in bed with the tiny Republican who’s the posterboy for Bush’s fiscal dumbassery.

    Andy, now that your lungs are better, take a walk and light a spliff buddy. One toke over the line, Sweet Jesus.

  91. 91.

    Villago Delenda Est

    1. The facts are known to have a liberal bias.

    2. If the facts do not support our theory (and they never seem to do so) then the facts must be disposed of.

    3. The scientific method leads to soshulism, the ghey, tooth decay, and allowing those who are lazy because they have a melanin surplus to sponge off of those who live off of trust funds.

  92. 92.

    Ash Can

    @trollhattan: What I found most interesting about this was that it turned up on the front page of the Chicago Tribune’s web site yesterday, among the main headlines. When even the local rag is noticing that Boehner’s making an ass of himself, he must be doing a pretty good job of it.

  93. 93.

    PTirebiter

    @El Cid: I agree. I’d further suggest that some of them actually become incapable of processing information that runs contrary to a long and passionately held belief. It’s like their ego tricks their mind to preserve a self they invested a lifetime in. It’s a thought that occurs to me often when I consider the neo-confederacy.

  94. 94.

    A Midnight Marauder At Balloon-Juice

    @DougJ®:

    I probably just got myself banned there. She told me she’d ban me if I brought up hiring practices at the Atlantic again.

    Sounds like you should definitely keep bringing it up.

    Sensitive propagandist is sensitive. And such.

  96. 96.

    Southern Beale

    Thanks to @trollhattan I seem to have got the hang of it though I messed up on the open quote, closed quote thingie. It appears that isn’t necessary.

    Two underscores. Got it.

  98. 98.

    Midnight Marauder

    @freelancer:

    I read this too. Did Obama “friendzone” Sully’s mom or something? Suddenly it’s GBCW and he’s jumping in bed with the tiny Republican who’s the posterboy for Bush’s fiscal dumbassery.

    I believe this is what scientists call “Business As Usual.”

  99. 99.

    HyperIon

    @p.a.:

    We may bust his balls a lot, and deservedly, but I believe a Republican Party made up of Andrew Sullivan-types that got to run things every few election cycles would be a million times better

    talk about a false dichotomy….

  101. 101.

    Ash Can

    @shortstop: The Trib is pretty moderate as right-wing rags go; it’s never struck me as anything worse than old-school patrician Republican. What made me sit up and notice was that a non-IL pol was getting singled out for what he said on one of the Sunday morning gasbag festivals. Lots of stupid stuff gets said on those shows by lots of stupid pols, and it never gets featured on page one, unless it’s a local/state pol running off at the mouth (the Trib will always favor the local political connection). Sure, Boehner’s the Speaker, but this is still a pretty rare occurrence. Boehner’s refusal to call bullshit on birthers evidently tripped the Trib’s “he said what?” wire.

  104. 104.

    General Stuck

    @danimal:

    The MSM is dying because there are too many sources of information now and more every day, and they are in a perpetual panic to keep viewers and readers. So extra caution is the watchword, to not offend anyone side too much. So we get milktoast transactional analysis of I’m okay you’re okay.

    The lizard brain wingnut senses this, with the added payoff for softening up the battlefield with previous liberal bias artillery barrages and figure they can say about anything and get away with it, and can, and do.

    Now they have cast the democrats as the mommy party that must be truthful and pure and responsible to hold the American family together, while the daddy party wingnuts party hardy, lying, cheating and stealing on the national pol stage. But must be right, cause of course, it’s daddy, and in still Father Knows Best America. Doesn’t hurt that they are lily white in color.

  105. 105.

    Bulworth

    Sully’s really going crazy today. In response to TPM he says:

    Really? The actual merits of a massive, out of control, entitlement-fueled debt are not worth even talking about?

    I’ve sent him emails about this–his seeming insistence on proclaiming that “entitlements” are driving today’s, and the past decade’s, deficits and debt–all to no avail. He generally does show some ability to take his readers’ comments into perspective, but not on this issue.

  106. 106.

    shortstop

    @Ash Can: Unfortunately, in its old-school patrician Republican mode, the editorial board has provided regular cover for all sorts of more extreme nonsense, including most of the crimes, sins and annoyances of the Dubya era and a good deal of the fringe lunacy rising the last couple of years. I’m very surprised that they called out Boehner like this — glad to hear it.

  107. 107.

    Ash Can

    @shortstop: They also endorsed Obama in 2008, which they wouldn’t have done if they were going whole-hog RW batshit. I’m not saying they’re perfect, not by any means. As an example, I thought the editorial board had rocks in their heads for calling Mark Kirk an “independent” Republican in their endorsement of him over Giannoulis. But they didn’t try to sugarcoat the lunacy of Kirk’s teabagger opponent in the primary.

    I agree that the Trib is too willing to overlook the peccadillos of establishment pols. But I give it credit for not coddling the tinfoil-hat brigade that’s gaining an increasingly solid foothold in the GOP.

  108. 108.

    piratedan

    @Bulworth: that’s his response? Then where the hell was this douchebag three years ago when Bush was in charge? These bastards only bring up the defecit after some shitbird Republican has been in charge running up the defense expenditures and leaves some Dem in charge to clean up their mess and only then do they ponder how in the hell did we get so far in debt.

  113. 113.

    shortstop

    @Ash Can: But the point is that they did coddle that brigade until very recently, sometimes directly in editorial excuse-making and more often indirectly by supporting the very people who made the teabaggers possible. The Tribune falls into the category of old-line Republicans who thought they could control the madness on the far right until it became apparent who was zooming whom. And it’s a little too early to tell whether they’ve really given up backing the crazy.

    I almost mentioned the Obama endorsement in just the opposite way. He is the only Democrat the Trib has endorsed for president…ever…and it is extremely doubtful that he would have gotten their nod if he’d not been a local guy. The Tribune editorial board’s rationalizing about Mark Kirk’s mythical moderation is, sadly, their typical MO — these are the same people, you will recall, who endorsed Jim Ryan based on his “strength of character” after his role in railroading Rolando Cruz was known, as well as too many other GOP assholes to bear listing.

    I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that the Trib will endorse Obama’s challenger in 2012. In fact, if it’s Romney or someone else they can pretend is “reasonable,” I think it’s a given.

    This is the Tribune’s current statement of principles:

    The Chicago Tribune believes in the traditional principles of limited government; maximum individual responsibility; minimum restriction of personal liberty, opportunity and enterprise. It believes in free markets, free will and freedom of expression. These principles, while traditionally conservative, are guidelines and not reflexive dogmas.

    The Tribune brings a Midwestern sensibility to public debate. It is suspicious of untested ideas.

    The Tribune places great emphasis on the integrity of government and the private institutions that play a significant role in society. The newspaper does this in the belief that the people cannot consent to be governed unless they have knowledge of, and faith in, the leaders and operations of government. The Tribune embraces the diversity of people and perspectives in its community. It is dedicated to the future of the Chicago region.

    The third paragraph doesn’t quite make up for the first and second, in my view.

  114. 114.

    Ecks

    Are they lying or don’t they know better?

    There’s a distinction that experts on lying make:

    “Lies” are intentional attempts to create beliefs that are known to be false.

    “Bullshit” is when you don’t know or care whether your statements are true or false – it simply doesn’t enter the equation, you’re making stuff up regardless.

    All politicians are required to be bullshiters if they are going to be elected (we never vote for ones who are too honest at any level above municipal), but the GOP have taken bullshit to it to its logical and most purefied conclusion.

  115. 115.

    Mnemosyne

    @Bulworth:

    Really? The actual merits of a massive, out of control, entitlement-fueled debt are not worth even talking about?

    Someone needs to explain, very slowly, that there is no debt caused by Social Security. The problem is that politicians have been using it as a slush fund to finance their idiot schemes of tax cuts and war in Iraq, and now they don’t want to have to pay back what they borrowed.

    It’s like setting up a college fund for your kid, then siphoning off the funds to pay for your BMW and telling your kid he’s out of luck, all the money in his college fund just happens to be gone and no he can’t drive your car.

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