Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

One lie, alone, tears the fabric of reality.

We still have time to mess this up!

“Loving your country does not mean lying about it’s history.”

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

Usually wrong but never in doubt

White supremacy is terrorism.

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

“Let’s not pretend [Trump] wants to engage in high-minded discourse.”

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself. We’re allowed to grow past that.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

‘Museums aren’t America’s attic for its racist shit.’

Republicans do not pay their debts.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

“That’s what the insurrection act is for!”

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / David Brooks Giving A Seminar At The Aspen Institute / More on fiscal austerity and Iraq

More on fiscal austerity and Iraq

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So Digby noticed the Iraq/fiscal austerity parallels 7 months ago (h/t Elia). At any rate, it is quite striking. Here’s Orrin Hatch (h/t AK):

Hatch (Utah), the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee, accused Obama of surrendering on the budget like Chamberlain surrendered Czechoslovakia to Germany.

“The United States is demanding a Churchill on the issue of deficits and debt, but the administration has delivered us a Chamberlain,” Hatch said on the floor Monday, in a clear reference to Chamberlain’s foreign policy of “appeasement.”

I want to be clear, budgetary problems are complicated, just as Iraq is. I do not support running huge budget deficits forever, just as I did not support Saddam Hussein. However, I do not support spending cuts in the middle of the worst recession in 70 years, just as I did not support an ill-planned unilateral invasion of Iraq. And whenever someone starts talking about Chamberlain and Churchill in the context of some situation that bears no resemblance to the appeasement of Nazi Germany, I reach for my revolver.

Reader Interactions

88Comments

  3. 3.

    Turgidson

    DougJ, it’s a good thing you made sure to note you didn’t support Saddam Hussein. That doesn’t absolve you of your duty to renounce Stalin, but it’s a start.

    @BGinCHI:

    Norwegian Wood ftw. Although, Teatards seem to harbor the illusion that tax rates are similar to those complained-about in Taxman.

  4. 4.

    Chyron HR

    The people of the United States don’t want a Chamberlain appeasing them with entitlements! They want a Churchill to join forces with Stalin and obliterate their country!

  5. 5.

    Dennis SGMM

    In view of the selfless courage shown by Senator Hatch’s party in not mentioning cuts to defense, ag subsidies and oil subsidies, that boy ought to just shut his pie hole.

  8. 8.

    Mnemosyne

    I can’t figure out who the Hitler is supposed to be in Hatch’s construction that Obama is supposed to be protecting Hatch from. Old people? Poor people? Poor old people?

  11. 11.

    Mark S.

    Shouldn’t anyone who voted for extending the Bush tax cuts be laughed at when they start whining about the deficit?

    Did Sully support extending the tax cuts?

  12. 12.

    harokin

    Never mind that Churchill and his buddy Lloyd George pretty much created the modern British welfare state with their redistributionist 1909 People’s Budget and land tax proposals.

    Hatch is an idiot.

  16. 16.

    Elia

    If I ever have kids, whenever me and the ms. disagree about parenting, I’m just going to accuse her of being the Chamberlain to our baby’s Hitler. Dora the Explorer (or whatever kids’ll be watching in that futuristic time) will be Czechoslovakia. I figure if I say it enough, forcefully enough, I’ll win every argument and when I come home from a hard day in Luke Russert’s salt mines, my child will greet me as a liberator with flowers and candy.

  19. 19.

    aimai

    The economy was in surplus just eleven years ago in 2000. What freaks me out about all this stupid deficit talk is the baseline assumption is that we can never get out of deficit spending except by cutting people’s throats. Of course we can. Raise the fucking taxes of the richest, tax corporations, charge them fees every time their behavior requires the taxpayers to monitor their behavior and clean up their messes. And stop fighting two wars. We’d be rolling in bucks and the deficit would be cleared in no time. This is not rocket science. Its simple math.

    aimai

  20. 20.

    Sir Nose'D

    @Turgidson:

    Teatards seem to harbor the illusion that tax rates are similar to those complained-about in Taxman.

    I just finished my taxes yesterday. I made $70K in 2010, and my federal taxes were 8% of my income. WTF? I want my federal government to take more of my money. Because, you know, I get stuff for my tax money. I like roads. I like the National Weather Service. I like the mission of the F.D.A. (but have some complaints about implementation). I have legitimate concerns about regulatory capture, but that is no reason to drown the government in the bath water.

    There are still some grown-ups in the U.S. We wish to be addressed as “citizens” and not “taxpayers.”

    Also, too. That is all.

  23. 23.

    Loneoak

    Yeah, but none of you have renounced Michelle Obama’s attempt to eliminate Medicare by forcing us to eat nothing but broccoli.

    Do you renounce the broccoli mandate!? We have always been at war with brassicas.

  24. 24.

    Calouste

    So what are you if you move the massive costs of wars off the budget and say “deficits don’t matter”?

    A Quisling? A Pétain? A Mussert? A Mosley?

  25. 25.

    Bulworth

    @Mnemosyne: ACORN. The New Black Panther Party. Code Pink. Non-teabaggers. People who want net neutrality. People who don’t know what net neutrality is. Young bucks with their T-bones and cadillacs. Muslim Brotherhood.

  26. 26.

    Superluminar

    Well I’m not sure why people are even bothering to respond to what is clearly irrational quasi-trollery, but it’s appropriate to your lack of thoughtfulness that you’ve found the single criticism that has the least basis in fact imaginable.

  27. 27.

    joe from Lowell

    And whenever someone starts talking about Chamberlain and Churchill in the context of some situation that bears no resemblance to the appeasement of Nazi Germany, I reach for my revolver.

    Passive-aggressive historical irony is the fuhrerprinzip of liberal fascism.

  28. 28.

    BGinCHI

    Come on, people, we all have to tighten our belts for the greatest redistribution of wealth upwards in American history.

  29. 29.

    Bulworth

    The economy was in surplus just eleven years ago in 2000.

    Yeah, but that was when Clinton was busy “trashing the place”.

    Also, too, that was before President Gore forced legislation down our throats requiring conscientious bankers to make wild and crazy loans to all the poor people.

  30. 30.

    Bulworth

    And whenever someone starts talking about Chamberlain and Churchill in the context of some situation that bears no resemblance to the appeasement of Nazi Germany, I reach for my revolver.

    Moore Award! Moore Award!

  33. 33.

    MattR

    @aimai:

    Raise the fucking taxes of the richest, tax corporations, charge them fees every time their behavior requires the taxpayers to monitor their behavior and clean up their messes. And stop fighting two wars.

    It would also be kinda nice if we started building and/or creating things. Sure we had the Internet bubble under Clinton, but at least that left us with a better Internet when it burst. This latest bubble was built around nothing so when it burst we were left with nothing but debt.

  34. 34.

    Suffern ACE

    @Mnemosyne: His voters. Hatch wants Obama to slash entitlements so that Hatch won’t have to vote to do the same and face his voters. His voters are Hitler in a rough sense.

  36. 36.

    Steve

    It takes a lot of chutzpah for the Republicans to claim a mandate for spending cuts after they won the midterm election specifically by accusing Democrats of wanting to cut Medicare.

  37. 37.

    Maude

    That statement by Hatch doesn’t make any sense.
    It is also wrong.
    Obama had already outwitted the Repubs. They aren’t calling him a tax and spend Democrat.

  40. 40.

    Citizen_X

    @Superluminar:

    it’s appropriate to your lack of thoughtfulness that you’ve found the single criticism that has the least basis in fact imaginable.

    A fucking United States Senator, the ranking Republican on the Finance Committee, spouts some risible bullshit about our national finances and this is somehow DougJ’s fault for noting it? WTF?

  41. 41.

    gene108

    Recent Pew Poll showing few people are really interested in budget cuts.

    I will always be amazed at how right wingers can so thoroughly dominate and shape political discussions.

  45. 45.

    eemom

    eh, don’t mind Orrin. The teatards are gonna eat him for breakfast next year. He’s toast.

    Toast to go with the tea! Tea hee.

  46. 46.

    Triassic Sands

    The heck with Chamberlain, Obama’s budget is the equivalent of the Holocaust, plus Stalin’s mass murders, plus Pol Pot’s genocide, plus the extinction of the passenger pigeons — no wait, they were animals, animals have no right to exist on Republican Earth, so screw the pigeons.

    And for those of you who have already forgotten, Orrin Hatch stood firm against Bush’s massive tax cuts for the rich; against the unfunded prescription drug benefit for lazy, old people; against both unfunded wars; and as recently as December, against the extension of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. The man’s record is what one would expect of a towering hero, a fearless champion of fiscal responsibility willing to stand alone if necessary against the overwhelming power of tax and spend Democrat/Communists. Why he is a real life John Galt or Howard Roark. What a man! What a hero!

    Damn, Republicans are horrible people.

  47. 47.

    trollhattan

    @ DougJ(R)

    I denounce Oral Hatch and Stalin.
    I denounce Chamberlin’s haberdasher.
    I denounce gorgonzola cheese.

  50. 50.

    Superluminar

    @DougJ (I’ll use your real name as you don’t seem to have changed it in the last two minutes)
    It’s not that I dislike anything you write, but I find it unhelpful in advancing the national debate, and frankly destructive of the precious little amount of comity that accompanies discussion of politics here. Whilst I have absolutely no facts or quotes to back up my position, I am pretty sure that the irrational and blatently strident tone of your remarks are wrong anyway. I also do not approve of the constant traducing of the gentlemen of the league in clear violation of their comments policy. I shall no longer engage with this hostility as I shall be debating instead with the superior intellects of NRO. All correspondence regarding this subject may be forwarded through my butler.

  51. 51.

    Dennis SGMM

    If Obama is Chamberlain vs the debt then that means that the Bush administration was the Weimar Republic.

  52. 52.

    ericblair

    I’m pretty convinced we’re not going to have a budget for the next two years, just (hopefully) a bunch of continuing resolutions to keep things limping along on autopilot until the House has a majority of members that are actually interested in governing instead of scoring cheap points. We’ve got the House’s Fuck Everyone We Don’t Like Budget that makes it clear that every one of the Repubs is either a looney teabagger or scared shitless of being primaried by looney teabaggers.

    Being held hostage by a bunch of reactionaries with no grasp of reality is not a tenable position. Something’s going to give in the next couple of years, and it’s either the teabaggers, the Republicans, and/or the federal government. Usually my money’d be on the Repubs co-opting the loonies like they did with the jeezoid set, but this seems different.

  54. 54.

    Comrade Dread

    Personally, I think we should jump on board the Reagan bandwagon and propose rolling tax rates back to the rates during his first term (top rate around 50%).

    If it’s good enough for the Gipper, it should be good enough for the modern GOP.

    Alternatively, we can try rolling back the clock to the glory days of the 50’s since the GOP seems to also revere that era. Of course, since half of them probably think of the 1850’s, maybe that wouldn’t be a good idea.

  56. 56.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    @joe from Lowell:

    Passive-aggressive historical irony is the fuhrerprinzip of liberal fascism.

    If this line isn’t added to the set of BJ taglines pronto, then I’m going to sign a non-aggression pact with a suitably odious dictatorship, just to show you all that Nyaaah, Nyaaah, you’re not the boss of me.

  57. 57.

    kth

    @Mnemosyne: Clearly, in the budget debate, there is a party that is intransigent, with whom “peace in our time” would be utterly illusory, whose talk of compromise cannot be trusted because of their palpable relish for any number of calamities over the tax increases that would necessarily form part of any fair and lasting agreement.

    That party is bent on war, and any compromises it entertains must be seen only as retrenchment for a future war, the object of which is nothing less than the rollback of the entire past century. But I don’t think Hatch would like to hear the name of that party.

  60. 60.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    @kth:

    But I don’t think Hatch would like to hear the name of that party.

    What’s wrong with the Native Sons and Daughters of America Party ?

  62. 62.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Superluminar:

    Whilst I have absolutely no facts or quotes to back up my position

    OK, this trolling for a pundit job over at Daily Dish stuff should be actionable.

    Just sayin’.

  63. 63.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Calouste:

    Now, what are the odds on this actually getting a mention in the MSM?

    Depends on how many attractive blonde 20somethings have been kidnapped by sharks this week, but low, nevertheless.

  64. 64.

    JP Stormcrow

    I’m not sure what role this quote during the ACA debate assigns to the ridiculous Mr. Hatch in his analogy. Not a good one.

    Six years ago, “it was standard practice not to pay for things,” said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah. “We were concerned about it, because it certainly added to the deficit, no question.” His 2003 vote has been vindicated, Hatch said, because the prescription drug benefit “has done a lot of good.”

  65. 65.

    Suffern ACE

    @Dennis SGMM:

    If Obama is Chamberlain vs the debt then that means that the Bush administration was the Weimar Republic.

    As bad as that Administration was, if that was our Weimar and now is our totalitarian fascist period, I think we might make it out o.k.

    You can come out now, Canada; we won’t be annexing you any time soon.

  67. 67.

    agrippa

    When you have the facts, you pound the facts. When you have the law, you pound the law. When you have neither the facts nor the law, you pound the table.

    Those people are not serious. They are not serious about the deficit; they are not serious about governing. They do not know how to govern.

  72. 72.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    @jwb:

    And yet we’re losing to these people.

    Apparently around these parts the furniture votes, and by golly but would you know, the table really does enjoy a good pounding.

  73. 73.

    Mnemosyne

    @Calouste:

    It’s nice to see that Walker’s divide and conquer tactics aren’t working as well as he hoped they would:

    Walker, however, exempted most law enforcement, firefighters and Wisconsin State Patrol troopers from the change.
    __
    On Tuesday, members of the fire fighters union received a loud ovation from the crowd outside the Capitol as they marched through holding signs that showed their solidarity with their fellow state and local employees.

  75. 75.

    Jeffro

    This is what happens when Big Money owns one party outright and half of the other, I guess. Time to start eating the seed corn…

  77. 77.

    Major Kusangi Kudlip(superluminar)

    @76
    Thanks. I’ve been called all kind of names on the web but “Conor” is a bit harsh.

  79. 79.

    agrippa

    @jwb:

    There is a large faction a significant part of the electorate – that donnot actually want good governance.
    those reasons when I heard them.
    They do have their reasons; but, I did not think much of those reasons when I heard them.

  80. 80.

    Shoemaker-Levy 9

    “The United States is demanding a Churchill on the issue of deficits and debt…”

    Churchill’s greatest accomplishment was fighting on the same side as Roosevelt and Stalin. In fact, his country was doomed were it not for their help. In light of this, if anybody can explain to me why conservatives revere him like none other I’d be grateful.

  81. 81.

    Mike G

    @El Cruzado:

    Funny how it’s always Churchill vs. Chamberlain

    A clever misdirection from the Repuke Party’s appeasement, if not sympathies for and collusion with (vid. Prescott Bush) Hitler in the years leading up to WW2.

  84. 84.

    Wile E. Quixote

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    Churchill’s greatest accomplishment was fighting on the same side as Roosevelt and Stalin. In fact, his country was doomed were it not for their help. In light of this, if anybody can explain to me why conservatives revere him like none other I’d be grateful.

    And let’s not forget that Churchill seriously fucked some shit up. Gallipoli anyone? And how about pulling Wavell out of Egypt to support the Greeks in World War II, which allowed Rommel to get a foothold in North Africa.

  85. 85.

    Sly

    Apropos of nothing, in 1945 Churchill ruined his political career by going on the radio and accusing Labour Party leader Clement Attlee of wanting to be a dictator, all because Labour proposed policies moving Britain toward a full employment economy and creating the NHS.

    Labour nearly won half all the votes cast and picked up 239 seats, mostly from the Tories. This in spite of the fact that Churchill was considered by all but a few to be a national hero.

    Sometimes being a dickhead doesn’t work out so well.

  86. 86.

    Anne Laurie

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    Churchill’s greatest accomplishment was fighting on the same side as Roosevelt and Stalin. In fact, his country was doomed were it not for their help. In light of this, if anybody can explain to me why conservatives revere him like none other I’d be grateful.

    He wore custom-made pink silk underwear “for his very sensitive skin”.

    Not quite as Republican as two wetsuits and a dildo, but then, Churchill was only Amurkin on his mother’s side.

  87. 87.

    acontra

    I really don’t understand the deficit mania. The worst case scenario is that we have to ask Uncle Ben for forgiveness, i.e. monetize the debt. This will cause some inflation, but as long as it also comes with wage increases, inflation would be a good thing right now because it would relieve private sector debt and lower unemployment. win/win/win, unless of course you’re a bankster.

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