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You are here: Home / Open Threads / I don’t think the king woke up one morning and said all the people should be better paid

I don’t think the king woke up one morning and said all the people should be better paid

by DougJ|  February 16, 20114:24 pm| 72 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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For the public employees in Wisconsin.

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Previous Post: « Things That Should Be Obvious By Now
Next Post: How much I lied »

Reader Interactions

72Comments

  1. 1.

    Maude

    February 16, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    Too slow a connection to watch.
    I have such admiration for the 3 women standing there.

  2. 2.

    BGinCHI

    February 16, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    I hope this spreads to Illinois and then Iran. In that order.

  3. 3.

    FormerSwingVoter

    February 16, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    Wait, an open declaration of war on the middle class makes people not like you? Who’da thunk it?

  4. 4.

    Nemo_N

    February 16, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    I don’t think the king woke up one morning and said all the people should be better paid

    Of course not; you have to whispers sweet words of adulation to their ears and not ever tell them something that might offend their royal sensibilities.

    That’s what raises wages and creates jobs.

  5. 5.

    minachica

    February 16, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    My husband and son just got back from the rally at the Capitol and he said there were so many people he couldn’t get close enough to see or hear the speakers. Yesterday (and maybe today too) there were Republicans who voted for Walker standing up to speak. And it looks like the Republican legislature might be about to blink.

  6. 6.

    aimai

    February 16, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    I hope this spreads and their willingness to leave their living rooms and their jobs to fight spreads throughout the country. The middle class has really forgotten what unions were for–and forgotten that they need union protections. All the nice chairs and fancy titles in the world won’t protect you when your company or your government decides to scapegoat you. I also hope they are going door to door and alerting their neighbors–I mean the people who live right next door–that government employees serve the public. Cutting government employment=cutting services to those neighbors and their families, as well as cutting all the subsidiary jobs that depend on the spending of teachers/firefighters/police/dmv etc…

    People should start sending in their payments and dropping the money on the table with “this dollar spent by a government employee/union member.”

    aimai

  7. 7.

    DougJ®

    February 16, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    @minachica:

    Great!

  8. 8.

    chris

    February 16, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    Man this stuff is going like wildfire through the wingnut circuit. I have a client/friend who assured me that the average wage for a federal employee was 140k. 140k!!! How can otherwise smart people believe this? I asked him did he know any letter carriers and to ask them do they bring down 6 figures. He also assured me that federal salaries were a larger part of the budget than medicare. MEDICARE i shit you not.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    February 16, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    @chris: I’m not too surprised. For something like the last two decades, most Americans have believed we spend a quarter of the budget on foreign aid.

  10. 10.

    Alan Wallisch

    February 16, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    I’m a Wisconsin State Employees Union member. I’ll be at tomorrow morning’s rally at the Capitol.
    Thanks for your support, Doug!

  11. 11.

    JCT

    February 16, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    @chris: Yes when you have Fox “News” acting as the official drug pusher of stupid, this is what you get.

    These folks who elected these assholes (WI, OH,NJ) and outright crooks (FL) are going to find out the hard way that elections matter — too bad they are going to bring everyone else along for the ride.

  12. 12.

    PeakVT

    February 16, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    @JCT: Funny you should mention those four jerks.

  13. 13.

    Dennis SGMM

    February 16, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    @JCT:

    As I commented in an earlier thread, the people who elect the assholes are convinced that they will be immune. They’re certain that it will be the Bad People, you know; illegal immigrants, single mothers, welfare cheats, and those bums who refuse to go out and get a job. It would be anathema to suggest to them that we’re all in this together and that one group is hurt we’re all hurt.

  14. 14.

    Pangloss

    February 16, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    @JCT: To be fair to my friends in neighboring Wisconsin, there was a whole shitload of Citizens United, Astroturf Teabag groups, etc. money that targeted Wisconsin. Russ Feingold was a victim, and this loon Scott Walker was elected.

  15. 15.

    Davis X. Machina

    February 16, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    @chris: Six-figure postal carriers, huh? Boy was my guidance counselor wrong.

    You can’t refute a theology with facts. Believing the impossible requires greater faith than believing the probable, so it obtains the greatest merit of all.

    In the old days, some of the time, a stake, some kindling and a medieval box of medieval kitchen matches worked,

    It only worked some of the time, though. And we’re better than that now.

  16. 16.

    Sue

    February 16, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    I am so proud of these folks. From kids to the elderly, they’re out there making themselves heard. By each other, anyway; from what I understand the votes are there to pass this no matter what, and the Republicans are going forward with this starting tomorrow.
    I hope this starts a national movement. It would be nice if this turns out to be Scott Walker’s gift to American workers instead of just another Republican screwing of a docile middle class.

  17. 17.

    PurpleGirl

    February 16, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    A little OT: This coming March 25, 2011 will be the 100th Anniversary of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire. It was one of the events that spurred the founding of the International Ladies Garment Workers Union and also of much labor and safety law in New York State and the nation.

    The building still stands; it is owned by NYU now. The elevators have never been renovated and remain condemned and unused. (The Chemistry Department has offices, classrooms and student labs in the building.)

  18. 18.

    minachica

    February 16, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    @Davis X. Machina: This guy is a greedy lying hippie, ya know.

    /wingnut

  19. 19.

    Loneoak

    February 16, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    This is a pretty solid article arguing that the WI budget crisis is entirely fabricated and this is just an attempt to further the griftopia wingnut Republic plans that demonstrate Walker is a very serious person.

  20. 20.

    Spaghetti Lee

    February 16, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    I hope they keep this up up there, and I hope it spreads across the country. Somewhere Fightin’ Bob is smiling.

  21. 21.

    Spaghetti Lee

    February 16, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    I read on TPM that past and present members of the Packers have come out in support of the union workers, which is just awesome, not least because the Republicans really can’t respond to that. What could they say? “Those Packers are idiots, don’t listen to them”? Yeah, that would go over well.

  22. 22.

    beltane

    February 16, 2011 at 5:46 pm

    @PurpleGirl: One of my great-grandmothers worked at the Triangle Shirtwaist factory and was able to escape uninjured. She was an IGLU activist for the rest of her life in addition to helping out relatives and neighbors who had fallen on hard times. Despite never learning to read or write, she made sure all four of her kids went to college (She allegedly hit them over the head with her purse whenever their grades weren’t up to snuff).

    We tend to think the great American middle class happened by magic when it was really all due to the hard work, persistence, and physical courage of those who came before us.

  23. 23.

    beltane

    February 16, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    @minachica: Street protests are the only thing that works. They may not work all the time but they are the only tactic that stands any chance at all. Internet activism, other than what Anonymous does, is only useful to the extent that it gets people out into the street. History doesn’t repeat but it does tend to follow certain rules and this is one of them.

    Awesome video.

  24. 24.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 16, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Slightly OT, but over at Atrios’ place, there’s a google ad for the Michele Bachmann PAC about “defunding Planned Parenthood.”

    There really is no end to the fucking stupid with these people. There’s got to be a peak wingnut, but honestly, I don’t think we are anywhere near it yet.

    Which is scary in and of itself.

  25. 25.

    PurpleGirl

    February 16, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    @beltane: What a good story and comment. A family history to be proud of.

    My interest in the Fire probably comes from spending time in the building when I was a chemistry major at NYU. There was a bronze plaque on the building that was stolen and replaced multiple times. They finally put it up very high on the wall.

  26. 26.

    freelancer

    February 16, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    @beltane:

    I’ll bring the red paint and the giant fuzzy Ren Faire hats if you bring the over-sized Papier-mâché puppets.

  27. 27.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 16, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    We tend to think the great American middle class happened by magic when it was really all due to the hard work, persistence, and physical courage of those who came before us.

    We all stand on the shoulders of giants. There are NO rugged individualists. None. Those who came before us made the world we live in now, and we are making the world, for good or ill, for those who come after us.

  28. 28.

    Dennis SGMM

    February 16, 2011 at 6:03 pm

    @beltane:

    Street protests are the only thing that works.

    They’re all that we have. We have been outspent, outgunned, outmaneuvered, and sold out by pols from both parties to the point that the street is our only recourse. Let’s take it back.

  29. 29.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    February 16, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    @chris:

    I have a client/friend who assured me that the average wage for a federal employee was 140k.

    And since per the wingnut theory of taxation brackets anybody making over $250k is still middle class, that puts them about halfway to “still middle class”, correct?

    No wonder the grand unified wingnut theory has not been found yet. They can’t seem to get quantum tax mechanics and relativistic social class gravity together in the same zip code, much less the same room.

  30. 30.

    evinfuilt

    February 16, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    @Loneoak:
    What a shock, to think that a fiscal “crisis” is yet again caused by the people who will do whatever it takes to solve it.

    National level we have tax cuts and wars, local level you have crap like that. Somehow a huge chunk of the population keeps falling for it.

  31. 31.

    Loneoak

    February 16, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    Here’s the story about Packers supporting the public worker unions.

    Go Union Go!

  32. 32.

    Maude

    February 16, 2011 at 6:12 pm

    @PurpleGirl:
    Thanks for letting us know about this.
    What an awful day.

  33. 33.

    beltane

    February 16, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    @freelancer: Street performance art, which is all the left has done for the past 40 years, is not the same thing as a tsunami of angry humans. No more rallies for sanity please.

  34. 34.

    Comrade Mary

    February 16, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    Irony is a bitch.

    Ben Davis is a U.S. based work clothing line. It was founded by its namesake in 1935. … At one time the tags on Ben Davis items boasted “Union Made Plenty Tough” although this has now been changed to “USA Made Plenty Tough” as they had a dispute with the union workers.

    Ben Davis Workers Walk Off Job

  35. 35.

    freelancer

    February 16, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    @beltane:

    I agree. Sorry for the defeatism in pursuit of a laugh.

  36. 36.

    JCT

    February 16, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    @PeakVT: Hah– the “new” 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse.

    @Dennis SGMM — oh it’s always the “other”. I posted on another thread regarding a great article discussing why using EDs for medical care is such a bad idea (focusing on cost) — the comments thread for the article IMMEDIATELY filled up with crazies insisting that “illegals” and foreigners were the ones using up all the resources.

    @Pangloss — I know, but the WI folk still pulled those levers. They shouldn’t be so easily swayed by what they “want” to hear.

    @beltane — why, we’re almost related! My husband’s grandmother worked there (her first job “off the boat”) — she quit her job when she got married, one week before the fire…. The guy she married went on to start the laundryman’s union in NYC and my husband’s entire family was involved.

  37. 37.

    BR

    February 16, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    OT: Lawmakers blast Obama’s energy budget:

    Democrat Jeff Bingaman, who heads the Senate energy committee, said the department’s budget request represented a significant investment in America’s ability to compete in global clean-energy markets, where China is gaining market share.
    __
    However, Bingaman joined Republicans in criticizing proposed cuts in the department’s funding for research on oil and other fossil fuels.

    With friends like these…

  38. 38.

    mr. whipple

    February 16, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    Waco’s RULE!

  39. 39.

    Cat Lady

    February 16, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    Street protests are the only thing that works.

    We are all Egyptians now.

  40. 40.

    Splitting Image

    February 16, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    The sad thing is that those ladies would be teabaggers now.

    You can tell by the way their signs misspelled “employees”.

  41. 41.

    ksmiami

    February 16, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    i barely post anything cause I am way too busy, but in light of Doug J’s comments, please ignore the Sully – he DOESN’T know anything about the Debt, entitlements, or what government is supposed to do coming out of a major recession. My take is unless you Brad Delong or PKrugman – JUST SHUT UP. The GOP wants to kill any vestiges of the New Deal, or anything that is good for the Middle Class while lowering taxes on people like me who don’t need it AND would prefer to live in a civil society where people are not reduced to eating catfood and roads work. I have no idea why anyone who makes less than 650,000 per YEAR votes Republican, but they suck!

  42. 42.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 16, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    However, Bingaman joined Republicans in criticizing proposed cuts in the department’s funding for research on oil and other fossil fuels.

    We.Are.Doomed.

    Fossil fuels are, by their very nature, finite. Use of them as a primary energy source is short sighted, at best, and suicidal, at worst.

    We need renewable and as non-polluting as possible energy sources. Geothermal. Tidal. Wind. Solar. Biomass isn’t much of an alternative, as it’s just fossil fuels before they’re fossilized.

    Anyone with any sort of long term outlook can see this.

    But we’re dominated at the moment by people with short term profit on their minds, at all times. Hell, Reagan’s Secretary of the Interior actually said that we don’t need to worry about the long term because Jesus is coming.

  43. 43.

    Jon H

    February 16, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    Kick-ass live version available here

  44. 44.

    Madeline

    February 16, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Just heard on the news that WEAC (the WI teacher’s union) is requesting all members report to the state capitol on Thursday and Friday. I have to say I am so damn proud of these people that it’s choking me up. I sure do hate our winters, but I just love Madison.

  45. 45.

    Jon H

    February 16, 2011 at 7:09 pm

    @chris: ” I have a client/friend who assured me that the average wage for a federal employee was 140k. ”

    Well, outsource all the cleaners and drivers and maintenance men and whatnot and you’re left with scientists and lawyers and diplomats and experts and whatnot, who tend to ask for a decent amount of money if they’re any good.

    Outsource everybody but the President and the average wage for a Federal employee would be $400k.

  46. 46.

    mr. whipple

    February 16, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    @Madeline:

    Too cool!

  47. 47.

    pablo

    February 16, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    This just in! Solidarity in Wisconsin!

  48. 48.

    Martin

    February 16, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    Huzzah! Florida rejects $2.4B in high speed rail funding. At this rate, California will get our bullet trains on everyone else’s dimes.

    Thank you everyone. We’ll be sure to invite you in for a Dodgers/Giants doubleheader, one game played in each home park, just a quick train ride between them.

    Cal HSRA says 2hr 38 minutes from SF to LA by train. Not too bad.

  49. 49.

    stuckinred

    February 16, 2011 at 7:13 pm

    @Madeline: People are acting in their self-interest. I mean it’s good but what’s to get choked up about, are they tear gassing in Mad-town again?

  50. 50.

    MikeJ

    February 16, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    @beltane:

    No more rallies for sanity please.

    Amen. People should remember that “sanity” as defined by Comedy Central means not being too unpleasant, and mass rallies for better treatment for workers are by their nature “uncivil” in the Jon Stewart/David Broder/Stephen Colbert/Bobo Brooks world.

  51. 51.

    Barb (formerly Gex)

    February 16, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: And this is why I have no interest in any part of libertarianism. There is no individual effort, unless you drop yourself naked in the wilderness with no supplies or tools except those you create yourself. THOSE people can be libertarians. No one else.

  52. 52.

    mr. whipple

    February 16, 2011 at 7:16 pm

    @MikeJ:

    Ditto. And enough of this ‘they both do it’ bullshit as practiced by TDS et al.

  53. 53.

    Madeline

    February 16, 2011 at 7:17 pm

    @stuckinred: @stuckinred: I don’t know. There’s something about the concept of unions that just make me teary. Teary in a good way.

  54. 54.

    MikeJ

    February 16, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    @mr. whipple: TDS watchers are the new totebaggers.

  55. 55.

    Sebastian Dangerfield

    February 16, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    @Madeline:
    Do you have a link?

  56. 56.

    stuckinred

    February 16, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    @Madeline: Hokay. I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night, alive as you and me. . .

  57. 57.

    Villago Delenda Est

    February 16, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Logan took precautions.

    The precautions were not enough.

    So, at this point we just throw up our hands and walk away.

    By all means, let’s give the terrorists a win!

  58. 58.

    Madeline

    February 16, 2011 at 7:28 pm

    @Sebastian Dangerfield: Heard it on the 6 pm news, and they do have a link.

  59. 59.

    MikeJ

    February 16, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    @stuckinred: Now do Classical Gas!

  60. 60.

    stuckinred

    February 16, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    @MikeJ: WOW! or should I say DOH!

  61. 61.

    Sebastian Dangerfield

    February 16, 2011 at 7:38 pm

    @Madeline: Thanks!

  62. 62.

    Amanda in the South Bay

    February 16, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    So, Borders announced its closing a bunch of stores, including a ton in the SF Bay Area. I can’t say I’m too surprised, as books are simply too expensive in this economy, and they really did overextend themselves with the number of stores-several months ago they closed down a store near AT&T Ballpark in SF, which was reasonably close to two stores in downtown SF (Westfield and Union Square) that were really too close to each other. My guess is that the numbers of Borders and B&N stores will now be close to equal.

  63. 63.

    gbear

    February 16, 2011 at 7:47 pm

    @Amanda in the South Bay: My sister bought me a Borders gift card for Christmas. She’s told me about it but she still hasn’t bothered to actually send it to me. I’m kind of pissed.

  64. 64.

    Amanda in the South Bay

    February 16, 2011 at 7:53 pm

    @gbear:

    Well, don’t worry too badly, they aren’t closing down all the stores, but that’s easy for me to say in someplace like the SF Bay Area, where there’s still three Borders still standing (Santa Clara County) after this round of store closings.

  65. 65.

    Stentor

    February 16, 2011 at 8:51 pm

    @Maude:

    There once was a union maid,
    Who never was afraid,
    Of the goons and the ginks,
    And the company finks,
    And the deputy sheriffs that made the raids.
    She went to the union hall,
    Where a meeting it was called,
    And when those company boys came around,
    She always stood her ground.
    Oh you can’t scare me,
    I’m sticking to the union,
    I’m sticking to the union,
    I’m sticking to the union,
    Oh you can’t scare me,
    I’m sticking to the union,
    Til’ the day I die.

  66. 66.

    Omnes Omnibus

    February 16, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    I am glad to see my state waking up.

  67. 67.

    Bill Murray

    February 16, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    @chris:

    Man this stuff is going like wildfire through the wingnut circuit. I have a client/friend who assured me that the average wage for a federal employee was 140k.

    the federal worker pay scale is easily found

    http://www.opm.gov/oca/11tables/pdf/gs.pdf with a locality adjustment that is in the 20% range. The highest grade is GS-15 and is equivalent to a colonel (well there is the senior executive grade which is equivalent to general/admiral).

    The maximum any non-senior executive can be paid is GS15-10 which would generally require about 18 years of service to get to level 10 is $166,714.28/year (although the actual pay cannot exceed Executive Level IV, which is $155,500), the minimum GS1-1 is $20,323.91.

    Executives make $145K to $200K, Scientific and Professional positions, $120K to $180K, judges $103K to $155K (although they have locality adjustment, so are basically the same as scientific and professional).

    But, this person probably is doing the UAW calculation or a McEstimate, so numbers aren’t of any use.

    http://www.opm.gov/oca/11tables/index.asp

  68. 68.

    agrippa

    February 16, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    Why pay them anything?
    let them eat prunes!

  69. 69.

    Ash Can

    February 16, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    @Spaghetti Lee:
    @Loneoak:

    Whoa, that’s huge. Thousands of marchers, irate editorials, bad press, big deal. None of that, I’m sure, would bother Walker. Having members of the Pack sticking up for the unions, however, has got to be making him piss himself.

  70. 70.

    Steeplejack

    February 17, 2011 at 12:50 am

    @gbear:

    Story in the New York Times said that Borders will continue to honor gift cards, coupons, etc. Of course you need your sister to actually get the damn card to you.

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    My guess is that the numbers of Borders and B&N stores will now be close to equal.

    Borders currently has about 650 stores and, according to the Times, is going to close about 200 of those. B&N has about 750 stores.

  71. 71.

    NickM

    February 17, 2011 at 7:43 am

    This Teamster thanks you for that song!

  72. 72.

    Paul in KY

    February 17, 2011 at 9:17 am

    @Bill Murray: A GS-14 is equal to a 1 star general. A GS-15 would be = to a 2 star general.

    That is old USAF protocol. I don’t know about the salaries, as a Colonel (O-6) would also get some extra money that a civilian would not get.

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