Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

This fight is for everything.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

And we’re all out of bubblegum.

It’s the corruption, stupid.

Let there be snark.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself.

This has so much WTF written all over it that it is hard to comprehend.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

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Reader Interactions

78Comments

  1. 1.

    kindness

    Sully seems to have come back from his hiatus a little full of himself. I’m not sure what he read on his break but it wasn’t current events.

  2. 2.

    Kryptik

    Because he gets to portray himself as above it, all the while letting its bullshit go repeated and unimpeded on his own site via his under-writers. He lets them dirty their hands with the dirtrag while he reaps the benefits of being the ‘sane conservative’.

  3. 3.

    mistermix a.k.a. mastermix

    Usually I don’t respond to these types of posts, but you have to realize that useful idiots are not going to employ themselves.

  5. 5.

    Tom Levenson

    My favorite line from Sullivan:

    no excuse for a magazine with contributors as smart as Reihan, Ramesh, Jim Manzi, Kevin Williamson, Dan Foster, Yuval Levin

    If by smart you mean clever and articulate (most of the time), o.k.

    If by smart you mean willing to exercise those smarts probing assumptions not in evidence…not so much.

  6. 6.

    Giants fan

    You were kind of being a douchebag to Conor Friedsdorf. Yeah, he made a stupid post, and it was right to call it out, but you took it to a level of douchiness that seemed unnecessary. Sullivan is a good blogger, but there’s no reason he should be in lockstep with everything his underbloggers post. He trusts their judgment and let’s them do their thing when he’s out. Obviously, Friedsdorf showed bad judgment in that NRO post, and was duly chastised for it. But some of his stuff is good, and your tone was unnecessary in my opinion.

  10. 10.

    Mike in NC

    Also from Sullivan:

    This is what’s become of The House That Buckley Built.

    But does it have one hole or two, Andrew?

  12. 12.

    Elvis Elvisberg

    I was thinking about Friedersdorf’s NR problem this morning. He just took for granted that they were arguing in good faith, then wrote like 500 words about it.

    But the fact is, if you’re a conservative— and Friedersdorf has written about his concern for individual liberty in the context of government overreach in the war on terror, and I think about refraining from radical tinkering with society or the economy– then you can’t be a Republican.

    Identifying as a Republican is a consequence of deep emotional resentments toward out-groups. There’s no philosophical or policy-based grounds for it. Seriously, beyond “government revenue must be reduced!”, what on earth have they had consistent views on, in the past decade plus? Only inertia can cause anyone who’s a Burke-&-Oakeshott conservative to have any attachment whatsoever to the GOP or its house organs at NR, Fox, Limbaugh, etc.

    (Incidentally, in the last two plus years, Reihan has gone a long way toward dispelling the idea that he’s an honest & thoughtful commentator, rather than a guy who wants to be the next Tucker Carlson).

  14. 14.

    batemapa

    oh you mean just like how Cole is always talking about the shittiness of libertarianism, yet “his” writers keep killing kittens.

  17. 17.

    Giants fan

    No idea what the Loog is or who glasnost is – just giving my honest opinion. Friedsdorf typically makes a decent effort and deserved better. Eviscerate the post, show the person a bit of respect unless that person is a shameless asshole or propagandist. As Friedsdorf seems to be neither, I thought you were over the line.

  18. 18.

    geg6

    @Giants fan:

    Ummmm, no Doug wasn’t being nearly enough of a douchebag about it. If it was only one post in which CF was completely off the mark, then you might have a point. But this was and is an ongoing thing with him, in exactly the same way it is with Megan McArdle. They ladle out lies and exaggerations, do exactly zero research on the truth of the matter they are spouting about, and then whine and cry about getting called on it.

    As for this…

    But some none of his stuff is good, and your tone was unnecessary in my opinion.

    Fixed.

  19. 19.

    DougJ®

    @Giants fan:

    Just curious since there was a guy here who posted under glasnost who always says this too. Didn’t mean that as a criticism. Different strokes.

  20. 20.

    Giants fan

    @geg – I really can’t stand McCardle for the reasons you say, but I wouldn’t put Friedsdorf in that same class. He’s written articulately about the need for prosecutions in the Bush torture regime, among other things. McCardle is a shill.

  21. 21.

    Sentient Puddle

    I’m more an ale guy, but can someone tell me what’s supposed to be wrong with putting ice in your lager?

  22. 22.

    Midnight Marauder

    @Giants fan:

    Sullivan is a good blogger, but there’s no reason he should be in lockstep with everything his underbloggers post.

    Except it is less about being in “lockstep with everything his underbloggers post,” and more about the fact that Andrew Sullivan is devoid is even a modicum of intellectual consistency. I mean, let’s just look at the way he frames his objection in the post DougJ cites:

    Either these guys don’t read their own magazines, or they’re perfectly comfortable printing paranoid nonsense about American liberals and Islam if it fits with their political agenda. The only real difference between Beck, Kristol, and Lowry is that the latter two let the mask slip more often.

    __
    That goes a bit too far, but it’s true that Lowry has published lots of indefensible work by Andy McCarthy. And every so often you’ll see something at NRO that makes you wonder what exactly they’re about

    How is it unfair to turn the same sentiment around on Sullivan, then, and wonder what exactly he is about by hiring such an egregious know-nothing as Conor Friedersdorf?

    @Giants fan:

    Eviscerate the post, show the person a bit of respect unless that person is a shameless asshole or propagandist. As Friedsdorf seems to be neither, I thought you were over the line.

    Well, looks like we found the disagreement. Lots of folks around these parts consider Young Conor to be profoundly ignorant and incapable of grasping the fact that he is, in fact, a propagandist. Because he is someone who takes the National Review as arguing in good faith, like that is a thing that has ever seriously happened when they were discussing liberals.

  23. 23.

    Barb (formerly Gex)

    When Sully extends a pig-ignorant theme, it is just an interesting intellectual exercise. He’s free to discuss how blacks are genetically inferior or how Obama need only show his birth certificate. It is totally okay when he does these things because he is sincere and intellectual about it. I suspect that applies to his underlings too.

    To them, the interesting part is how conservatives are being OBVIOUSLY racist, where as subtly racist stuff (like assuming the fraud at face value) is A-OK. Perpetuating racism is not their concern. Brand damage preventing conservative wins in the future is.

  24. 24.

    fasteddie9318

    @Sentient Puddle:

    I’m more an ale guy, but can someone tell me what’s supposed to be wrong with putting ice in your lager?

    You mean other than the fact that it objectively means you hate America for its freedom and probably want to blow a terrorist if you’re not already doing so in between sips of your unAmerican lager with fucking terrorist commie ice in it?

  26. 26.

    batemapa

    @DougJ®: My point is what the other writers say does not perfectly represent sullivan at the dish or cole here.

    this has nothing to do with sully. plenty of reason to criticize him for things, but your issue here isn’t with him, it’s with connor.

  27. 27.

    Giants fan

    Sullivan is a bit more emotional and all over the map than say Glenn Greenwald who’s as consistent as they come. But I think Sullivan is earnest and pretty fearless in who and what he’ll criticize, so I don’t hold his inconsistency against him. He’s not a hypocrite in other words. And Friedsdorf is also earnest, though DougJ was quite right to point out his NRO post was an egregious mistake. But I don’t think that makes Friedsdorf a “know-nothing,”

  28. 28.

    Barb (formerly Gex)

    @batemapa: Yes, but Cole allows comments and those folks get taken to task, sometimes by Cole himself. In other words, we have no reason to believe that Cole endorses the posts by the other front pagers, because we have seen where he does not.

    Your point is?

  29. 29.

    eemom

    great post! I am luvin this transformation of our erudite, even-tempered, dispenser of “to be fair”ness DougJ into Atlantic-blogger attacking TIGER. Grrrrrrr!!

  30. 30.

    Elvis Elvisberg

    @Giants fan: You know what, I had the same initial reaction, Giants fan, but do read mistermix’s response to Conor’s comment at LOOG yesterday. Yeah, Conor was giving NR the benefit of the doubt, and still engaging in honest criticism of it… but, as mistermix pointed out,

    It took me 10 keystrokes and two mouse clicks, using the most obvious reference available (Wikipedia) to put the main claim of the National Review article into question. It probably took you far longer write the lengthy grafs in your original post that (a) remarked on what a solid publication the NR is, and (b) told liberal bloggers what they need to get right on reading that solid publication.

    Conor is so excited to be the reasonable middle ground that he goes off on 500-word tangents instead of fact-checking the work of known fabricators. In reality, in light of at least the last ten years, the National Review, like, say, Paul Ryan or Rush Limbaugh, should be treated as presumably lying.

  31. 31.

    fasteddie9318

    @S. cerevisiae: I can think of some very bad, already very watery, mass-produced American lagers that I’d consider dropping a cube or two into to cool them down. Now if Bloomburg is putting ice in his microbrews, then he’s clearly got some kind of mental incapacity.

  33. 33.

    DougJ®

    @Giants fan:

    I partly trash Conor because he thinks he may mean well but he acts the fool. If I meant well and was regularly heh-indeeding propaganda that went over my head, I would want people to trash me in the nastiest terms possible to help get the lesson through my thick skull. I sincerely mean that.

  34. 34.

    Pooh

    @kindness:

    Sully seems to have come back from his hiatus a little full of himself. I’m not sure what he read on his break but it wasn’t current events.

    Well he saw what shit Conor was printing while he was gone and thought, not incorrectly, “I’m WAYYYYY better than that!” Just make sure you hang out with people uglier than yourself, and you’re a looker!

  35. 35.

    matoko_chan

    O Master.
    Why art thou bitching about Sully when you frontpage one of the greatest glibertarian fucktards of all time?
    im referrin to Mr. FETUS=SLAVE fapfapfap markets! E.D. Kain.

    if you were a human centipede you still wouldnt have a leg to stand on.
    :)

  39. 39.

    matoko_chan

    @DougJ®: if you can frontpage useless glibertarian whankers like EDK, Sully can fp clueless bourgie pseudo-hipster conservatives like Conor.
    quitcher bitchin.

  40. 40.

    geg6

    @Giants fan:

    There are single issues in which I am in agreement with Grover Norquist (okay, just one I can think of…the Ground Zero Community Center). Doesn’t mean he isn’t a pox on earth and that I should suddenly start linking to him with praise in all my posts, does it? He’s still a shit and I would spit in his face should I ever come face to face with him.

  42. 42.

    Pooh

    @DougJ®: Too right. For all the bleating about the free market ideas, interesting how quickly some of the leading proponents are to call foul over hurt feelings.

    If it was the first time someone, let’s call him Johnor, cited to a source known to be compromised a little too credulously, then yes, maybe Doug was a bit harsh. But consider that after admitting that the story originated from someone he admits to knowing is full of shit he still thinks it’s worth discussing without doing even the most basic research. He deserves the scorn he gets on this score.

  45. 45.

    DougJ®

    @matoko_chan:

    ED has had some very good posts recently. If it makes me an Atlantic style circle jerker to say that, then so be it. It’s what I believe.

  46. 46.

    Giants fan

    @DougJ – agree that he absolutely needed to be called out for that post and all the implications of making it without simple fact checking and all the assumptions therein – that NRO is reasonable outlet, etc. My only gripe is that you went beyond that and impugned his integrity. Kill the post, but spare the writer unless that writer is such a compromised shill that destroying his reputation is necessary and for the public good. Again, I think Friedsdorf is generally sincere, so I think he deserves better. Same with Sullivan.

  48. 48.

    matoko_chan

    @Giants fan:

    unless that writer is such a compromised shill that destroying his reputation is necessary and for the public good

    but they all are…..Sully, Douchebag, McMegan, Conor, EDK…just slopping the base with conservative ditch liquor and eumemes.
    they are all exactly the same.

  51. 51.

    kindness

    @Giants fan: Man that’s laying it on kinda thick. If Sully was so fearless he’d tell his coworkers Megan & Jeffrey that they are A) morons and occasional racists if he wanted to be completely honest & fearless or B) wrong on many fronts if they want to be ‘polite’.

  52. 52.

    matoko_chan

    @DougJ®:

    If it makes me an Atlantic style circle jerker to say that

    veritas.
    then stfu about Sully.
    there isnt a nanowafer of difference between you.

  53. 53.

    Fuck U III: The Duck Fucks Back

    I’m gonna guess that the ‘tako hasn’t actually seen the movie she linked to.

    Sad, really. Perhaps enough to make even a duck cry.

  56. 56.

    Fuck U III: The Duck Fucks Back

    ‘tako: Really?! A film that came out in 2010 has risen to the level of being a classic? You clearly are one of discriminating tastes.

  57. 57.

    matoko_chan

    @Fuck U III: The Duck Fucks Back: its classic….in my culture set. that, and Teeth, and Dead Girl.
    i dont know any of my peer group that hasnt seen all three.
    but then…..my friends and i lissen to music that isnt mainstream popular yet.
    its partly gamer culture, gamers have game consoles, and thus have Netflix stream.
    all those movies have been out on netflix since spring 2010.

  58. 58.

    matoko_chan

    @DougJ®: you and sully are both searching for “sane” conservatives. that is an oxymoron.
    if they were sane they wouldn’t be conservative anymore.
    you might as well be hunting snipe.

  59. 59.

    ldrks

    Sully seems to be suffering lately from a bad case of British Commentator System, where he doesn’t look to have an inkling of understanding how the budget works in a presidential system.

    Also, as a young person, I am amused how getting rid of my future Social Security and my prospects for employment is somehow supposed to help me out.

  61. 61.

    matoko_chan

    @ldrks: Sully still believes in DeadWhiteGuy Phailosophy like Oakeshott (his dissertation topic).
    its basically an alternative bizzarro world where counter-rational conservative ideas actually work.

  62. 62.

    Anne Laurie

    @Pooh:

    Well he saw what shit Conor was printing while he was gone and thought, not incorrectly, “I’m WAYYYYY better than that!” Just make sure you hang out with people uglier than yourself, and you’re a looker!

    Bingo.

    There’s an old mantra that a first-class leader tries to hire other first-class individuals, while a second-class leader tries to hire third-class individuals. By this metric, Mr. Sullivan has branded himself as something less than a first-class editor.

  64. 64.

    matoko_chan

    @DougJ®: and fine, i cant make you get rid of that useless glibertarian whanker.
    But dont you pretend for a nanosecond that you are ANY FUCKING DIFFERENT THAN SULLY.
    and now you and mistermix are trying desperately to rehabilitate EDK and the League. Did you get a beatdown for trolling a fellow frontpager?
    because that is what you did.
    you set them up.
    and they showed their ass just like you knew they would.
    and now you wanna take it all back?
    sry, bud, the internetz is forever.

    and EDK has never retracted this either.

  66. 66.

    matoko_chan

    @DougJ®: and fine, i cant make you get rid of that useless glibertarian whanker.
    But dont you pretend for a nanosecond that you are ANY FUCKING BETTER THAN SULLY.
    and now you and mistermix are trying desperately to rehabilitate EDK and the League. Did you get a beatdown for trolling a fellow frontpager?
    because that is what you did.
    you set them up.
    and they showed their ass just like you knew they would.
    and now you wanna take it all back?
    sry, bud, the internetz is forever.

  67. 67.

    matoko_chan

    @DougJ®: and one more thing that puzzles me…..why do you and mistermix and half the commentariat have to stick up for EDK?
    ima grrl and not a frontpager even.
    cant he defend himself?
    what a fucking pussy.

  68. 68.

    matoko_chan

    oh….. are all my comments moderated now?
    just ban me.
    its what EDK did the last time i interfered with his alternative reality show.

  70. 70.

    Stillwater

    Usually I don’t take time to respond to your irrationally hostile brand of quasi-trollery

    You got to give him credit for a good effort here. He’s trying to level the playing field by accusing you of making things personal, when the Conors of the world would like nothing better than to have the debate proceed civilly, without emotion, just an honest presentation of opinions that stand or fall on how well the evidence supports the conclusion elegantly the sentences are constructed, and how much deference each party gives to the other.

    See, the problem here is that you haven’t given Conor the respect that he feels he deserves. He makes his money writing for a living after all. He’s a pro.

  71. 71.

    Sebastian Dangerfield

    I’ll try to spell it out for Giants fan. I’d love to do some dumpster-diving for links, but don’t have the time (sorry to give the Jonah Goldberg excuse), and I think this is a fair summary:
    Conor’s metier — especially when doing the holiday-help gig at Sully’s Island of Misfit Conservatives — is to throw up a squib or two (sometimes, really, an abstract of an article), and then throw up some variant of post along these lines: “Hmmmm, if [underlying question being begged by the squib or abstract] is true, that provides compelling evidence of [really bad thing that just happens to align with my preconceived views].” He’s done countless posts like this on anything that relates to education and quite a number of other subjects.

    Most recently, Conor managed to shit the bed in a most fecund manner by asserting that Dennis Prager was “[o]ne of the most thoughtful right-leaning talk radio hosts.” (Granted, given the field of comparison, he was adjudicating the tallest midget in Circus, but still …) Anyway, after being treated to some of the choice stylings of Prager, he mumblingly retreated with an “oh my, I had no idea.” Then he spends over a thousand words pimping a paywall-protected NR piece that was attempting to put a respectable gloss on Breibart’s ridiculous and shameful race-baiting about the Pigford settlement, replete with admonitions that liberals should pay some money to read the piece of shit and thereby learn how proper gentleman go about their race-baiting. Despite clearly laboring over this craptacular post, he failed to approach the NR piece with the slightest bit of a critical eye, much less did he bother to do a moment’s research. He just did another one of his patented, cowardly “Wow, if true this is really bad” remarks. And in this instance, he said that the “if true” facts “suggest fraud” on a massive scale. Problem is, even if you accept all the facts as true, the “fraud” conclusion was non sequitur. Facially. On the very “facts” he was pimping.

    There really are only two conclusions one can draw: (1) Conor is such a dipshit that he shouldn’t be subbing on any blog, or (2) he’s quite consciously about the project of dressing up the vile bullshit that the right is manufacturing to please its most odious followers in nice clothes so that the bullshit can mingle in respectable company.

  73. 73.

    BD of MN

    @Sentient Puddle:

    what’s supposed to be wrong with putting ice in your lager?

    The only reason you put ice in, or chill way down, is to hide the flavor. You can’t taste cold stuff as well, so the icer really just doesn’t like beer…

    Well, we are talking about lagers here.

    pet peeve here, as a homebrewer and BJCP judge, the term lager doesn’t simply mean Bud and its ilk. Next time you’re wandering through the craft beer section, check out Samichlaus, a 14% alcohol Christmas beer, or Baltika, a 7% alcohol Baltic Porter, or any Bocks, Doppelbocks or Octoberfests. All lagers… Lager or ale only tells you what kind of yeast the brewer used, either Saccharomyces cerevisiae for ales, or Saccharomyces carlsbergensis for lagers…

  75. 75.

    matoko_chan

    @DougJ®: here is what it boils down to.
    EDK wants you and mistermix and Cole to help him save conservatism.
    fuck him.
    conservatism is a zombie philosophy that has nearly destroyed our country.
    there are no “good” ideas left in conservatism.
    it belongs in the dustbin of history, and that is where its headed.
    the intellectual elite and the cultural elite have left. all that is left is the business class elite, and they are dedicated to soullessly rapaciously farming every last dime out of the middle class, like a super-predator from the Jurassic.
    and now minorites, intellectuals, youth, and film and academe won’t go near the party of the jesushumpers and the bankstahs.
    EDK and his homies baked this cake with 50 years of racebaiting and IQbaiting….now he can choke on it.
    and EDK can lead, follow, or get out of our fucking way, but i dont think he should get to come here and whine about equality of ideas….his ideas are bad, wrong, and anti-empirical…conservatism DOESNT WORK.

    and the demographic timer goes tick….tick….tick…

  76. 76.

    matoko_chan

    and all EDK’s trimming around the edges cant change that.
    he is dishonest to the core.

    missed a spot!
    :)
    like a super-predator from the Jurassic that is extincting its prey base.

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