I’m very glad about the reception of my last few posts here and at The League, but there seems to be some persisting misconception of the direction of my politics. Let me clear the air.
Recently I have written a defense of public libraries; a defense of public sector unions and organized labor more broadly; a defense of public sector pensions; a question about how to revive organized labor in America; a snarky post about austerity-now doomsayers; a snarky post about Paul Ryan; a long rambling thing about school reform. Probably other stuff I’m forgetting. Anyways…
I note all of this just to point out that this sort of thing probably ought to be seen as a severing of ties, a casing off of older positions I’ve held without making a big showy thing out of it. In at least a couple of these posts I say as much, noting that I was wrong to believe X and now that I’ve run the necessary intellectual gauntlet I’ve moved to position Y. Suffice to say, I don’t think any of this puts me in good standing with conservative or libertarian camps, and frankly that’s fine. I have no interest in being either, though I do consider myself a civil libertarian. In other words, I’ve changed my mind. The middle class and American workers are facing some tough times in this country, and I think progressives offer the middle and working class the best options – a revival of organized labor strikes me as fundamentally important to the well-being of our society – so that’s where I’m throwing my support. And I feel better about the stuff I’ve written and the positions I’ve taken lately than I have on anything I’ve written in a long time. I think that’s a good sign. I feel comfortable with these new progressive shoes. They fit nicely.
Enough about that, though. Shouldn’t we be talking about how very cool it is that police and fire-fighters are joining the tens of thousands of protestors in Madison and standing in solidarity with their fellow workers against Governor Scott Walker’s union-busting even though they aren’t facing an end to collective bargaining themselves? Because that’s just an awesome show of solidarity. You can show your virtual solidarity by going here.
freelancer
Psssh. No different than Friedersdorf or McArd or Suderman!
Nuance is for cattle, I say.
Svensker
Are you trying to drive Matoko insane?
Oh, wait…
BGinCHI
Welcome to the club.
Recovering rural Hoosier here (a long time ago).
Somebody get ED a cake! Jeffrey?
E.D. Kain
@freelancer: damn skippy.
Violet
I’m finding it interesting that these days as Thinking People start actually thinking about things, they seem to be moving leftward. I guess this means you won’t be on that Top Young Conservatives list anymore.
agrippa
I consider neither conservatism nor libertarianism to be competent governing philosophy. I consider both to be incapable of solving real world problems.
Conservatism, I find, to be self serving and too pessimistic to be of any use. Libertarianism, in my mind, is an intersting abstraction which should never applied by morat men in the real world.
Basically I think that politics and governing to be completely different; and, politics has been known to prevent governing.
General Stuck
You are just one more idiot on the internet, just like the rest of us. And nothing makes a big showy thing of it more than a post denying making a big showy thing of it.
You need to declare Cole an asshole and resign minionship several times to be in the big, big showy thing big league. Yawn.
edit – extra points for disconnecting your internet for bloggety flair.
sukabi
now see what you’ve done? This is the kind of thing that happens when you actually start thinking about the effects of the policies you support.
JCJ
I hope my daughter, a freshman at the University of Wisconsin, was there!
E.D. Kain
@Svensker: I’m sure you see the difficulty in that proposition.
Cat Lady
If you’re not a hater and care about the long term viability of this country, then you have to care about the middle class. Nothing else makes sense politically than to be a liberal, and that means you’re stuck with supporting Dems.
We are all Cheeseheads now.
Violet
Yes, yes we should. I’m in awe of what’s happening in Wisconsin. I hope this is the beginning of a trend.
shortstop
@BGinCHI:
The food is better on this side of the aisle, no doubt about it.
P.S. Chava’d yesterday. Pretty good!
Pooh
This reminds me of when The Rock switched from heel to babyface.
Tha-that’s ED Kain’s music!
E.D. Kain
@General Stuck: see I realize that I’m doing that while saying I don’t want to be doing that but I felt like some clarification was needed. And yeah I know I’m just another idiot online. I’m okay with that.
JPL
It’s not surprising that the firefighters are standing along side fellow workers. They understand that they could be next.
What’s happening in Wisconsin is not about union rights, it’s about individual rights. The government should not be able to dictate who should be able to join a union. The tea party people should be able to understand this.
BGinCHI
@shortstop: Thought you’d like it.
Tempted to drive up to Madison and drink some beer, I mean demonstrate.
Wait, can’t I do both??
WyldPirate
Intellectually honest people can only withstand the cognitive dissonance required to be a modern Conservative/Rethuglican for so long, ED.
Maude
@Violet:
In a way it might be like waking up from a dream. The economy has seemed to awakened more people.
WI is a breath of fresh air.
The govenor didn’t ever think the protests would happen.
He can’t get the bill passed and the estimate on the crowd size today was about 25,000.
It is time for the monarchs of the US to go away and stay away.
The income inequality has hit a high point and the Republicans are in a bind.
My favorite recent headline is about Obama and the tea prty Repubs in the house crash Boehner’s jet engine. He didn’t that one coming.
Being ignorant and stupid like Reagan was popular for a long time. The problem is that the stupid ones thought they would get their own way and are not prepared to deal with current events.
Tom Hilton
The reason Thinking People are moving leftward is that rightward people are moving Unthinking.
PurpleGirl
OT: Tomorrow morning there will be a rally in and around 6th Avenue in the low 50’s to show solidarity with the Wisconsin government workers. Haven’t decided if I will attend yet. Sponsored by Democrats.com
http://jobparty.us/1/cheesehead_rally_nyc
E.D. Kain: you are showing an enormous amount of maturity, (not sure if that’s the word I want, but it comes to mind right now) in being able to rethink positions, change your mind and talk about it. It makes you easier and nicer to read these days.
Cat Lady
@JPL:
That’s a joke, right? They want big gubmint except when they don’t.
fasteddie9318
@Cat Lady:
Fixed
Gin & Tonic
But whom does that leave as ombudsman?
Maude
@Gin & Tonic:
m_c
E.D. Kain
@Gin & Tonic: okay someday I hope to live that one down. Some. Day.
Just Some Fuckhead
Am I the only one crying like a little baby? Group hug!
arguingwithsignposts
What, are all the FPers trolling for m_c now? c’mon folks.
freelancer
@E.D. Kain:
ONE OF US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!
No, seriously, tell us to fuck off or something, this place is sounding too friendly.
General Stuck
Or put another way. Increasing madness focuses the mind.
JPL
@Cat Lady: Yeah. I might be naive but not that bad. The Koch brothers believe they deserve individual rights because they earned it.
The larger issue is that joining a union is an individual right that the Governor of Wisconsin is blocking.
agrippa
Whether people understand this or not – the governing philosphy of the GOP is just about played out. The GOP cannot govern. The GOP does not know how to govern. Most of the Dems want to govern, but the party cannot agree upon what to do.
As a governing philosohy, conservatism can get by when life is quiet and there are no upsets. That does not happen very often.
Eventually, reality will intervene and enough people will realize that the GOP is busted. That may take more time than many of us want it to take.
cynickal
@agrippa:
Agreed. Morat Men suffer enough in this country. WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE MORATS!!?!?
E.D. Kain
@PurpleGirl: thanks but ‘mature’ may be a little extreme…
J
I’ve liked you’re recent posts a lot, for what it’s worth.
Jeanne ringland
ED, I’ve really appreciated your recent posts.
Elvis Elvisberg
Thanks for your consistent willingness to think things through.
I’d love it if, in 10 years, I can say, “the Republican Party offers better solutions than the Democrats for now, so I’m throwing my lot in with them.”
Alas, today the GOP has absolutely zero policy proposals or beliefs, only a series of resentments. It’s bad for the party & bad for America.
In the meantime, we are all Democrats now.
khead
Do you have a cat yet? You’re gonna need a cat….
schrodinger's cat
@Gin & Tonic: Tunch!
singfoom
Anyone know if there are any events in Chicago tomorrow or on the weekend to show solidarity with those in Madison?
ETA: I can haz speeeling?
arguingwithsignposts
and responding in comments! our little FPer is all growed up!
ETA: I’d feel bad if I didn’t add: “Fuck you, also, too.”
E.D. Kain
@freelancer: nah, solidarity is good right now. Focus your anger on Walker and that crazy Florida governor and the lunatics destroying AZ…
freelancer
Also,
If you were ever being considered or groomed for a slot within establishment opinion media as a voice to be taken seriously, you realize you just wrote the opinion that is essentially the equivalent of burning your draft card, right?
I mean, unions? Really? This is totally ridiculous, like, if the world came together as one union to thwart an imminent asteroid impact, that would, like, totally ignore the natural rights of those of us who are anti-union to, y’know, be vaporized in the heat blast of a 500-megaton equivalent Extinction Level Event. Cause you know who’s got to pay for it? Corporations. You know who benefits from not getting hit by asteroids without paying for it? Poor people, that’s who.
danimal
Call me crazy (but first get in line), but I believe the events in Cairo may actually have been a little spark that helped ignite Madison and may spread to other American cities. Maybe Paul Ryan is right in connecting the two. The GOP overreach has usually led to liberal acquiescence in the past two decades; maybe that dynamic is about to change.
Imagine if hundreds of thousands of Americans had come together to protest the Iraq War before it started…Well, okay, but imagine if they gummed up the city square and brought commerce to a crawl for a week or two. Civil disobedience–the time has come. We are all Egyptians now.
Elia
You know, I love this site, but for the life of me I can’t understand why so many of the regulars seem unremittingly hostile…
But whatever — anyway:
ED, I think it’s cool that you are able to reasses your political convictions. And, obviously, it’s cooler still that you’re finding yourself taking positions with which I happen to agree…but even if we were to part company in the future, I’d hope it was because you had a similar reorienting. I think we could all stand to stop and run through what we think and why, at least every once in a while.
I think it’s interesting, too, how galvanized you seem to have become with a recognition that the labor movement in this country, long under attack, is now facing the kind of concentrated and cynical attack that should give everyone who’s not lucky enough to be of wealth reason to pause. I think we’re living in an especially volatile and weird time, politically, and I’m fascinated to see if other people of my generation who are into this stuff find themselves in as much philosophical flux as I have these past 2 years.
Brian S (formerly Incertus)
@Maude: He can’t get the bill passed and the estimate on the crowd size today was about 25,000.
The real fear is that he can get the thing passed, and that’s why the Dems in the Senate had to scatter today. The question is whether he’s willing to pay the obvious political cost for getting it done, and at least for now, he seems willing to. I hope the protests can shake a handful of Republicans in the state Senate into backing down, because that’s the only way this doesn’t happen.
Zifnab
/hands E.D.K. plastic cup of kool-aid and honorary Balloon Juice track suit.
Welcome to the party!
E.D. Kain
@freelancer: yeah, I know. But I’m fine being a lowly blogger. Better to tell the truth and get banished from polite society than to bullshit your way to the top.
arguingwithsignposts
@Zifnab: dammit, when did we get track suits?
Arclite
E.D. dude, your writing speaks for itself. You choose practical positions and back them up with good arguments. Most of those happen to fall on the “liberal” side of the line these days. I enjoy it, keep posting.
Cat Lady
@E.D. Kain:
So, what was the tipping point? You seemed to have a road to Damascus moment in that thread about the moral hazards of foreclosure a few weeks ago, or was it the retardedness of screaming about forced garbage collection? Or was it just the shock and awesomeness of the snark here?
jacy
Thanks, ED. I always kind of liked you, even when you made me want to hit you in the head with a shovel. Our children, they is learning.
Can your perhaps have a heart-to-heart with my husband? He keeps backing the wrong horse, philosophy-wise, and I’d hate to have to bury him in the yard. It would be so hard to train a new one.
arguingwithsignposts
ok, too much lovey-dovey. needs more hamshire-greenwald-sullivan-friedersdorf hate.
Zifnab
@Brian S (formerly Incertus): I saw a bit on Reddit suggesting the protesters are mobilizing for a recall election on the governor. That would definitely shake things up.
Dave
E.D. – Nice to have you aboard. I think you’ll find that your libertarian bent towards protecting the individual against coercive power makes more sense coming from the left these days. It’s conservative politicians and their corporate allies that are destroying liberty in this country.
Turgidson
@BGinCHI:
Can and should!
jeffreyw
@BGinCHI: Not much of a cake baker, I do have some sourdough working in a bowl that’ll be ready for tomorrow.
Violet
@Cat Lady:
Wondering the same thing.
Also, E.D. Kain, it’s been interesting and kind of fascinating to watch your evolution here over a relatively short time. People were really hard on you in the beginning (myself included I think, although I think others were a lot tougher on you). You stuck around, thought things through and it’s been interesting to watch. I guess this might make you a DFH now.
Maude
@Brian S (formerly Incertus):
The WI Dems said they aren’t coming back into the state until the provision is off the table. This is going to be fun to watch.
Walker has no game plan. He said that the Dems who fled are doing a stunt. He’s in trouble.
I think we are at the point where people have had enough.
And, it’s all Obama’s fault.
Dave
@Maude: Ohio is starting to see protests as well. And apparently there are rumblings for a recall effort in Wisconsin. And they do have a provision to do just that.
GregB
E.D.
Welcome. It’s always nice to see people grow and change.
Peace.
Yutsano
@arguingwithsignposts: Fuck you dickhead cudlip.
Feel better? I do.
(BTW got sent home from work cause I can’t talk and they insisted I do phone work.)
@E.D. Kain: As a T-shirt hanging in a cubicle at my work says:
Rick Taylor
I don’t know if it was for similar reasons, but I was an idealistic libertarian long ago, and have been going leftwards ever since then. For me the attraction was I was enamored by the idea you could deduce everything important from first principles; ethics, the appropriate role of government, everything from the rule that was wrong to do harm to others, except in direct response to their attempts to do harm. Among other things, the difficulty of figuring out where property rights come from convinced me that the real world is for better or worse more complicated than that.
JPL
@Dave: Nice. Maybe Feingold will run.
4jkb4ia
Unions as self-governance. See, it all comes together.
Turgidson
@danimal:
There’s always a first time…
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes….
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day (which is almost infinitely more often than Paul Ryan)
and…so on.
JPL
If you live in a Republican district write your congressman and tell him you want him/her to show leadership by either cutting their government workers (aides) salaries in half or work with fewer aides.
bloodstar
I might be the only person who feels this way, but I strongly believe that libertarianism and liberalism can work hand in hand. It’s not a perfect match, but it’s a pretty good one.
I however do not believe that libertarianism and conservatism can possibly work hand in hand.
Philosophically, I think that government is not inherently good, and shouldn’t be something used as a first resort. But neither is government inherently evil which should be avoided at all costs. Corporations, in particular, for profit corporations are sociopathic in nature. and as such can behave in very evil ways simply for the sake of a dollar. which is why government is necessary to prevent evil behavior of a corporation that have such deep pockets that individuals can’t stand up to that type of firepower. HBGary Federal is a great example of some evil behavior that shouldn’t happen and the government should be investigating
Where things are really bad, is when corporations capture government. At the point that corporation is able to act without fear of regulation is the point that the individual loses their rights, not necessarily to the government, but to the corporation.
That’s why the Republicans are so dangerous, they’re much more captured by corporations than Democrats. Don’t get me wrong, Democrats are beholden to corporations, but the level of capture isn’t even close.
Does that make me Libertarian? Liberal? I dunno, I stick with libertarian, because I feel ultimately we should focus on the rights of the person. not the corporation, not the Government.
Pooh
Speaking of Wisconsin, the most terrifying thing I’ve read today:
But we do not torture!
Josie
Welcome to the light! By the way, have you been reading Nixonland with us?
gex
@E.D. Kain: Given the inordinate amount of crap you had to put up with here (and still do) about your earlier positions, you get to draw attention to this. If you ask me.
Guster
This is obviously part of the liberal conspiracy to silence all Reasonable Conservatives.
Turgidson
@E.D. Kain:
Holy refreshing, Batman! If only Brooks, Doubt-that, McArdle (ESPECIALLY McArdle), Sullivan, (oh geez, this list would take months to complete, I quit) felt this way too. If. Only.
You’re almost fully-assimilated. As others have noted, you just need to arbtirarily tell the commentariat to DIAF and that you have nothing but disdain for all of us, and the process will be complete.
Pooh
@gex: You must not have been around when Cole switched. I’d say the amount of crap EDK is getting is perfectly ordinate or even subordinate.
soonergrunt
Welcome! Come out farther into the deep end! The water’s fine!
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Zifnab:
What?! No sneakers with the swoosh on them? Get him his sneakers!
The bunk beds are in the back.
Triassic Sands
Being a civil libertarian has nothing to do with where one sits on the everyday political spectrum. And being a civil libertarian is always a good thing — that doesn’t mean that one can’t ever overreach or be misguided, but it does mean that others will have a difficult job proving you’re wrong.
gex
@E.D. Kain: That’s the real reason you won’t make it on wingnut welfare. They can hold arbitrary contradictory opinions (gubmint out of my welfare). Being unwilling to just bullshit your way to the top is how you dim your star in conservative circles.
Violet
@Yutsano:
I once worked somewhere where the new employee in the cubicle next to me told me during the first week of her employment that she thought my attitude wasn’t positive enough and I might end up turning to the dark side. As if this was a bad thing. Fortunately my friends rallied and brought me various Darth Vader stickers and so forth, so I could get through her morning prayers (audible), helium-infused, sing-song-y voice, and inability to respond to questions with much more than a slack-jawed deer-in-the-headlights look.
Man, thinking about that place still gives me the creeps. There was more to that woman that was weird, but in the interest of being polite, I won’t talk about that. She had zero sense of boundaries and crossed the line a lot. Dark side it was for me.
policomic
Elia
The fact that Paul Ryan is taken seriously at all is a case-closed piece of evidence that our media is significantly compromised. At least as far as I’m concerned. I mean, on a daily basis, seemingly, there’s a new 1. radical batshit crazy assertion from first principles, bolstered by 2. a bald-faced lie.
trizzlor
I wonder if “leftist” policy is just more interesting to write about out. Right or wrong, conservatives and libertarians in particular tend to just criticize and yell “STOP!” – which is fun for some but gets boring fast. It’s the reason you don’t see a lot of “policy wonks” on the right, and those that do exist are either just applied statisticians or tackle non-political stuff like global warming.
Is it possible that being a progressive just makes it easier to blog?
Alex S.
Good for you, E.D.! Nate Silver once used the term liberaltarian to describe himself. That sounds good for you, to me. And just like him, you should have the brains (and libertarian instincts) to avoid the knee-jerk liberal reactions that can sometimes be seen at FDL or DKos.
In the end, it was probably inevitable to find yourself on the left side of the scale, simply because the right side doesn’t allow independent thinking and has almost completely left the mentally sound realm.
tomvox1
Good for you, ED. Shows you are thinking for yourself and not beholden to blind ideology. Looked at objectively, progressivism in politics equals compassion, period. Plus business, the rich and the government have plenty of power and are obviously well taken care of. It’s the working people and poor of this country who have to have their interests looked out for by their fellow conscientious citizens. Otherwise, we won’t end up much better than a 19th century oligarchy.
Alex S.
@Pooh:
Oh my God, Ryan is a fanboy!
Violet
E.D. Kain, I really appreciate your thinking about things and posting that you have changed your positions. Not everyone can learn, grow and change their positions. Even fewer seem to be able to admit it. Kudos for doing both.
JGabriel
@JPL:
You make the mistake of believing Tea Party rhetoric that it’s about liberty, instead of the actions that scream right wing tribalism.
.
Alex S.
So… who should be John’s next convert a.k.a. provide the conservative point of view? 2 months ago I would have suggested Sully…
Maude
@Dave:
Oh, thanks for that nice bit of info. My parents were born and raised in Ohio.
When Walker said the word stunt, he lost the argument.
The Ohio gov called a cop and idiot, multiple times. Cop was a public I’m sorry from the gov.
Delia
@Dave:
Speaking of recalls, that’s how the once and future Terminator got himself elected Governator of California. Of course Darrell Issa fantasized the job would go to him. Study the other side and learn.
Cat Lady
ED- don’t forget to renounce Stalin, also too.
Jeanne ringland
@Zifnab: I didn’t get one… oh wait, my transformation was well under way (damned near complete) by the time I came here for the first time, about three years ago.
Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)
@E.D. Kain: I wonder how The LOOG will react to this.
zuzu (not that one, the other one)
I’ll me more impressed when you deal with your earlier abortion=slavery writings. But given the obvious evolution in your positions lately, perhaps I might get to that level of impressedness.
Yutsano
@Violet: Did you get the cookies though? There are formalities to crossing over that must be observed.
My old job used to be divided into the Rebellion and the Dark Side. It was funny until they relocated us all and we got mixed up.
Calouste
@danimal:
There were probably more than a few people who though “If the people can stand up in Egypt and Tunisia and other Arabian sandpits, we can sure as hell so that in the U! S! of! A!”
Eric S
@khead: I don’t know why that made me laugh so hard but it did. Thank you.
And ED, welcome to the party.
+1 and counting
BARRASSO
OT but Balloon Juice got a mention by Dan Savage today.
http://www.avclub.com/articles/february-16-2011,51890/
Dennis G.
Once your embrace reality it is hard to go back to crazy town.
Be well and take care.
Cheers
suzanne
Welcome to the side of light. ;)
Oh, man, I am picturing m_c’s head blowing up and just loving it.
Jim, Once
Yes.@Dave:
Is this true, really? Or are you just snarking us? I need details/links!
My husband and I (retired teachers and lifelong union members) are trying to figure out a way to make the three hour drive over to Madison tomorrow (we’re s’posed to be babysitting the grands).
Jeanne ringland
@Pooh: I blogged about John Cole’s conversion; it was like the sun coming out on a gloomy day in Seattle.
soonergrunt
@Violet: I got threatened with an Article 15 over the stuff I did to get the hyper-religious Fire Support Officer to stop loudly praying next to my cot in Honduras.
Back then, soliciting your Team Leader for anal sex using CLP (the lube/cleaning fluid for rifles) was frowned upon. Even faking it was frowned upon.
The FSO got reassigned shortly thereafter cause I wasn’t the only one who’d rather sleep at 0200 than listen to his litany of (uncreative and boring) sins, and the Captain convinced the Battalion Commander that this guy really didn’t belong anywhere near a bunch of grunts.
cyntax
@E.D. Kain:
Welllllll… it’s gonna be fun trotting that one out every once in awhile, and this is still Balloon-Juice after all…
soonergrunt
@Jim, Once: Take the grands with you. It should be a great learning opportunity.
Unless they’re toddlers or younger, in which case it’s just a pain in the ass going that far to stand around.
Chris
Don’t give up the libertarian title!
I’m in a somewhat similar position. When I first started paying attention to politics I identified very strongly with the libertarian philosophy, but as the Bush Administration went on I found myself driven further and further to the left. I read Daily Kos everyday, along with this blog and others, and agree with them most of the time. A lot of people would say this disqualifies me from being a libertarian, but I want to fight against the appropriation of “libertarian” by right wingers.
I’m a left wing libertarian and proud of it. I view the left/right axis as more an issue of personal alliance and agreement. In the practical debates going on in this country I find myself agreeing with the left far, far more than the right. Despite this I still base my positions on core libertarian values, such as those I drew from my reading of Hayek and Friedman which first drove me to the libertarian position.
Pooh
@Jeanne ringland: This place used to be slightly surreal, with the comments sections usually being FAR to JC’s left, so much so that he had to hire Tim F., which of course only whet our zombie-like appetite for brains.
Comrade Dread
Yep. Kind of hard to witness the last few years with regards to the economy and not come to the realization that we’re being utter, thoroughly screwed by Wall St. (and Washington, in collusion with them.)
Power to the DFH economists.
Pooh
@cyntax: The Jane Hamsher’s of the left (does not include any actual Jane Hamshers) tend not to let such things go…
matoko_chan
/taps foot.
you are still pandering.
only naow ur pandering to juicers.
aimai got you cold.
you are just looking for a pat on the head.
retract your FETUS=SLAVE is a “reasonable” position and then mebbe ill read your crap.
until then, its kanly, bitches.
@Chris: oh i totally believe EDK is a libertarian because in America that means sukking bankstah cock and pattin’ the jesushumpers on the back while they try to legalize chattle slavery of women and children and cut blacks back to 3/5 of a vote.
Are you sure you’re a libertarian too?
Catsy
@Dave: Unfortunately, this document seems to suggest that he has to be a year into his term of office before a recall can be initiated.
matoko_chan
oh, and FUCK OFF and DIAF.
matoko_chan
@Chris: oh and chris cher?
Hayek WAS WRONG.
debate meh.
i double dawg dare u.
cyntax
@Pooh:
That “The Jane Hamshers of the Left” does not really include any Jane Hamshers is really kind of meta.
I’m just looking forward to busting EDk’s chops now and then.
The Other Chuck
Whose turn is it this time to wipe the spittle off this blog’s pet kook?
cyntax
@matoko_chan:
Awesome. I was a little worried you would go soft on us.
FoxinSocks
Woohoo! Welcome to the club… fractious, loosely-organized, and riddled with angst as it is.
Here is your official copy of the Liberal Agenda, we have secret meetings where we discuss world domination and our mutual abhorrence of Justin Bieber and his hair every other Tuesday. Juice and cookies will be served beforehand.
In addition, you will receive an obligatory cat, which will most likely turn up on your doorstep unannounced in the next 24 hours. As a card-carrying progressive, you’ll be required to post pictures of the aforementioned cat at least once a week. Bonus points for posting captions in lolcat speak.
As a progressive, you may find yourself experiencing bouts of angst, helpless rage, and melancholy, especially at family gatherings and when exposed to Fox News. This is normal, and how you know you’re really, truly leaning left.
Pooh
@cyntax: I assure you that for a decent interval of time afterward, invoking that incident was not busting chops but considered actual fighting words by Cole.
JGabriel
@Pooh:
And that was a lot longer ago than the ombudsman quote. Of course, it’s specifically memorable because the whole “Jane Hamsher’s of the left does not include Jane Hamsher” assertion — based, I’m guessing, on the Whitehead & Russell set theory axiom from Principia Mathematica that a set cannot contain itself — is freakin’ priceless.
.
Pooh
@JGabriel: John Cole, professor of communication!
Dave
@Jim, Once: No snark. Here’s the AFL-CIO post.
Bob
Jesus, I’m glad I meet you way back when. You were cool then but now, I have no words. Dude!!!!
sukabi
@E.D. Kain: and there you go again, outing the MO of the ‘favored few’… you’ll never make the bigs at this rate.
jfxgillis
Erik:
Welcome to the dark side, Mwhahaha. Work is essential, the rifle is near. No war but class war!
Did I ever tell you the rule of political opinion evolution?
Smart conservatives evolve into smart liberals; stupid liberals evolve into stupid conservatives.
A Ghost To Most
I don’t know which pleases me more; your apparent conversion, or the fact that you now stick around in the comments.
Good on ya, E.D.
matoko_chan
@suzanne: you dimwitted cow.
he said HE IS A LIBERTARIAN.
dont you know what that means in America?
in america that means sukking bankstah cock while holding the socons jackets while they beat the crap out of civil liberty and minorities and try to impose chattel slavery on women an children.
Pooh
@A Ghost To Most: I don’t think that’s terribly fair. He’s always tended to stick around in comments, perhaps to his detriment in many a thread (and I would like to think the righteous ass-kicking he got in some contributed in some way to this development.
Jeanne ringland
@JGabriel: That set thing is funny.
What was the ombudsman quote?
matoko_chan
c’mon EDK, answer one thing.
watchu think ’bout dis, you useless glibertarian whorebag.
BGinCHI
@BARRASSO: Ooh, we’re all metrosexual and shit now.
I love it.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Comrade Dread:
The only way we are going to get our economy going again will be to create more jobs. To create more jobs we need people with money to buy more goods and services, thus creating the demand for more employees to handle the increase in economic activity. Problem is that the public doesn’t have the money necessary to revive the economy, most workers are underpaid, in debt and far too many are unemployed and have little to no income at all.
IMO, we are fucked until the government figures out that they need to move money out of the hands of the rich and back in to the hands of people who will spend it. Money that goes to the rich to be banked is money that is taken out of the economy, it’s no longer economically productive except for the person holding it and those who get their hands on it to ‘invest’ it, shaving off their cut of the cash.
Raising pay will make it possible to survive on one job and not need two or more, freeing up employment spots for others to take. Increased pay will feed into the economy, increasing economic activity. It’s as simple as that. Right now we are in a hole that is going to take the government to pull us out of.
Because the rich sure as hell aren’t going to do it.
matoko_chan
@Maude: im not a fucking ombudsman.
I AM TROLL
and my job is to shove the cattle prod of wisdom up your dumb cudlip asses.
i REPEAT EDK hasnt changed.
dont you know what libertarian means in America?
in america that means sukking bankstah cock while holding the socons jackets while they beat the crap out of civil liberty and minorities and try to impose chattel slavery on women an children.
dont break your arms patting your bigselves on the back.
he hasnt changed.
/spit
BGinCHI
@matoko_chan:
I think you wuv him.
Gin & Tonic
@BGinCHI: Reminds me of all those bad movies where the boy and girl bicker and fight for an hour anf 50 minutes and the audience all knows what they don’t, that they’re actually madly in love.
matoko_chan
@BGinCHI: srsly?
i loathe him with fire of thousand suns.
he has no honor.
he has brought shame on the party of my ancestors.
matoko_chan
@BGinCHI: srsly?
i loathe him with the fire of a thousand suns.
he has no honor.
he has brought shame on the party of my ancestors.
A Ghost To Most
@Pooh:
Early on, E.D. tended not to stick around and defend the post like the other FPers; I registered that complaint more than once. I agree he improved in that regard, and not always to his favor, so I stopped grumbling. Even if I didn’t generally agree with him, at least now E.D. responds to questioning/flames/etc. I guess I wasn’t clear about the timing.
It was fun watching the conversion of JC; this could be interesting.
cyntax
@Pooh:
Yeah, I do recall that, but you seem to be implying that’s some sort of disincentive… so not really following you.
matoko_chan
@FoxinSocks:
he is not a progressive ….he is a fucking LIBERTARIAN. when he watches FOXnews he clutches his pearls and whispers about free markets and innovation.
i’ve known him longer than you guys have.
hes a pissant that wants daddies approval.
juicer approval, repub base approval alla samesame.
scav
@BGinCHI: Should we tell her about the spinach in her teeth? Nah, the frothy spittle kind of hides it. Poor dear.
Dave
@matoko_chan: Don’t you know the opposite of love isn’t hate…it’s indifference? The fact you hate E.D. so (dare I say) passionately…I think you lurve him.
Ann B. Nonymous
@matoko_chan:
You can’t hurry love, you just have to wait. Love don’t come easy, it’s a game of give and take.
The tension between the two of you is *enormous*. Once you see it, you can’t unsee it. It’s one long extended mash note from a fangirl to a geekboy. Pretty soon you’ll be chatting about what’s your favorite Whedon and who’s your favorite Doctor.
That is, if you aren’t already.
Pooh
@cyntax: I’m just babbling anyway.
cyntax
@Pooh:
No worries.
But it would be a sad day at Balloon Juice if there was a moratorium on snarking at the frontpagers.
SiubhanDuinne
@matooko_shan: Wen r u going two lern too speell you studip cutlib?
Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)
So, are you guys saying I should stop churning out Hamsher/Cole fanfic and turn my attention to matoko/Kain?
agrippa
@cynickal:
You misspelled a word too! cynickal
naa naa naa!
Ash Can
ED was reasonable when he got here, and he’s even more reasonable now. It’s a beautiful thing.
Oh, and Matoko, it’s almost bedtime, dear. Get your pajamas on and brush your teeth. And don’t forget to go potty.
matoko_chan
@Ann B. Nonymous: what do you mean?
he never says anything to me. he tries to ignore me like hes trying to ignore how bad the Master Troll DougJ reamed his site with the Two Questions for Conservatives thread.
what a buncha assclowns. DougJ utterly pranked them and EDK is tryin verry hard to pretend it didnt happen.
besides im sure EDK is perfectly dreadful in bed.
hes Chunky Reese Witherspoon Douthat without the clean suit and the protective gloves.
FREE THE FETII!
Benjamin Cisco
Wow, I take a few days off and ED goes all native and shit. Awesome.
matoko_chan
i love that i just came in and pissed all over your victory party.
redtards.
he hasnt changed.
hes a libertarian.
he was a libertarian when i commented at TAS 2 years ago.
hes frontin n youse stupid.
mechanical jacobin
Why is it that the comments on this thread start out unbelievably snarky and slowly morph into the lovey-dovey-hippie shit I would expect from Balloon Juice in a situation like this? Are the FIRSTers just assholes?
Johannes
@E.D. Kain: Ya kinda just did, mate.
shortstop
@BGinCHI: The third baseman and I are considering doing some Outside Agitating of our own.
Hawes
Welcome! I nominate E.D. for ombudsman!
soonergrunt
@Ann B. Nonymous: I can’t wait till the inevitable crack up when she learns that he thinks the 8th Doctor was one of the best. That ought to be good for a week of angsty, poutrage-filled screeds about how “NE1 who lieks the 8-doc is a fucken cudlip yawl” followed by a teary-eyed collapse with a plain english finish that she’ll “never love again.” Then she’ll go completely ’round the twist. Not that anybody would notice.
Let me know when it happens. I’d unfilter her to see that.
Ann B. Nonymou
@matoko_chan:
… I’ve heard almost exactly the same comment several times before, usually about twelve to eighteen months before the wedding/moving-in-together. I believe this is what they call a ‘tell’ in poker.
matoko_chan
shall i go fetch TAS links EDK?
you were a libertarian two years ago.
whats changed?
FREE THE FETII!
shortstop
@The Other Chuck: What would happen if y’all just left the spittle there and looked the other way?
soonergrunt
@shortstop: That’s what everyone else does. Some of us point and laugh.
Calming Influence
Congratulations, E.D. Kain, our first official graduate of The Balloon Juice Commenters 12-step Git Yer Shit Straight® program!
Now get out there and testify, Brother!
Tim F.
Well christ, John put up more of a fight than that. Now we need to find another reasonable conservative.
Allan
This is just such wonderful news. I’m getting a little verklempt. I KNEW something was up when I read your post about education reform this morning and I couldn’t find anything to hate about it…
shortstop
@soonergrunt: I get that, but lately it seems like about every other thread devolves into all matoko, all freaky, all the time.
Wile E. Quixote
@Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel):
matoko/Kain slash? You sick little monkey!
E.D. Kain
Thanks all let me catch up on these comments and get some responses up…
themann1086
@Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): Yes, matoko is a classic Type A Tsundere (WARNING: TVTROPES AHEAD!):
Wile E. Quixote
@matoko_chan:
Yeah, like a dork like you, who in real life is probably a fat bastard like Steven Den Beste with a creepy anime fetish and who likes to pretend to be an asian female online, is going to be a real demon in the sack either.
dogwood
It’s interesting thinking about what’s happened to the middle class over the last 30 years, and the ways that has led to individual political transformation. As a young person I was intellectually drawn to libertarianism, and I think that’s normal for people who like ideas. But, of course life happened, and I changed. In 1976, I graduated and began my teaching career at a high school in northern Idaho. The school had music, drama, and journalism programs that were unbelievable. As a young teacher I was blown away by what our students could do. We sent kids to Julliard, and those who worked on the school newspaper or radio station could go directly to work or use those skills to work their way through college. But, the Reagan revolution came and the legislature went from Republican to radical. The city council was recalled and replaced with the prototype for the Tea Party. Property taxes, and income taxes were cut drastically and that was the end of superfluous school spending on things like drama, music and journalism. In 1976 if the high school roof was leaking, mold was spreading and the heating system was hopelessly out dated, we would have passed a bond levy to build a new school. Those are today’s conditions and our third try at passing a bond this spring will fail. The legislature is now going to increase class size, and require high school student to take 2 courses a year online. A right wing outfit in Va. that donated to the state superintendent’s campaign will provide the cheap internet devises This will allow districts to lay of a few thousand teachers. Middle class people with families and mortgages. And believe it or not, a simple 1 cent increase in the sales tax would probably solve the problem. But that will never happen either. I’m 57 years old, have loved my job and thought I would teach forever, but last month I submitted my retirement letter. As I watch what’s happening in Wisconsin, I’m sorry to say that I am getting bitter. If the majority of Americans who vote believe it is my salary, retirement and healthcare that is wrecking the economy, then it is better I not return to the classroom angry.
Sorry for the rant, but people like me who live in Sarah Palin’s America could tell you that this has been going on for 30 years.
mclaren
Kain is about three posts away from a hippie headband, a poncho, some black light posters, and long hair.
Jesse
@matoko_chan: Are you for real? He posts that he’s looked around, considered the evidence, and changed his positions, and you scream about stuff he wrote two years ago- when he just said, pretty much explicitly, that he *changed his mind.*
What’s changed? Really? That’s all you got? Can you read?
I sure hope you’re not as stupid as this vendetta makes you seem.
And the Eighth Doctor really is one of the better ones. :P
parsimon
Coming in late, and I don’t comment here often, but glad to you have fully aboard, E.D.
The blog post you linked on the Madison demonstrations was moving — thanks.
General Stuck
@dogwood:
Me too, though intellectual is a might strong. Mostly for my stance in favor of legal weed and free love, usually in that order, and not having my friends or me come home in aluminum boxes.
4jkb4ia
Took a while, but was reminded of how my husband made a terrible face when Balloon Juice was mentioned. (I suppose it is not harmless in his esteem anymore.) “Why, honey?” He thought how to express himself and replied, “Social engineering.”
SatanicPanic
It seems like you’ve been moving in this direction for a while now. I’ve always liked your posts even when I don’t agree with them and think John was smart to bring you here.
Sly
This whole thread smacks of readership capture.
(couldn’t resist)
abrxas
Welcome, E.D.! We’re good people, you’ll be treated well. :)
Jeff
E.D. Kain
@Cat Lady: What was the tipping point?
I think I just asked myself the right questions.
Why is the middle class faltering? Why does the future seem so uncertain for the working and middle classes, while consumer goods are so cheap and easy to come by? What happened to organized labor in this country? What would a country where all the libraries are privatized look like? All the schools? What will happen when they slash 280,000 people off of Medicaid in AZ? And on and on – the questions all just piled up and I realized, you know, this isn’t what I want. I can’t side with this. I can’t even relate to this, or associate myself with this. Time to change.
And so I set out to answer those questions, and to do that – well, to even want to do that I guess just forced my hand. Gave up the ghost of whatever flimsy ideology I was clasping to. I’m much more at home as a progressive (though I’d say I’m still comfortable with the idea of left-wing libertarianism up to a point – civil libertarianism definitely). Progressive is good by me though.
E.D. Kain
@Josie: Nixonland is on me ‘to read’ list – I’ve been reading Ravitch’s book, and I also want to read Winner Take All Politics, but Nixonland is in the top three to-reads…
E.D. Kain
@Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): Well I’ve been writing a lot of these posts at The League. They don’t care. Some of the readers are very left-wing there and they say “good on you” and some call me a commie-dem and we all get on with getting on.
E.D. Kain
@zuzu (not that one, the other one): I never endorsed the fetus/slavery analogy. I attempted to see where those making that analogy were coming from is all, while at the same time saying plainly that I thought it was a bad analogy that should not be used. The intent of my posts was to try to see from someone else’s point of view, even someone I didn’t agree with. So just to say it quite plainly here as well: the fetus / slavery analogy is wrong and lousy and should not be used.
E.D. Kain
@Chris: I think there’s room for libertarians and progressives to work together, but libertarians are going to have to work at distancing themselves from the right and from the language and mentality of the right. I think there’s a growing attempt to do this, but I think it needs to be tackled first and foremost on civil liberties and human rights. The other stuff can come once trust has been established. Also, the whole purist thing in so many libertarian circles is going to have to become extinct because it won’t work – you can’t meet people in the middle on important issues when first principles are the be-all end-all of politics.
E.D. Kain
@FoxinSocks: juice and cookies is why I signed up, you know…
mr. whipple
Welcome, EDK. You have been assimilated. :)
soonergrunt
@shortstop: Pie Filter, my good man. Pie Filter. The only reason I use Firefox, and well worth it.
Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)
@E.D. Kain: Cool. Cat Lady aske my other question, it appears. I wanted to know if there was a road to Damascus moment or if it was all cumulative.
Adam Gopnik, who is otherwise an entertaining writer, is fond of the, “And it was at that moment I realized…” trope. (I just heard him do it again on a podcast last night!) That shit is is so fake. I’m glad you say it was the result of many things.
Unless, of course, you are pranking us. Which would be too awesome.
Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)
@themann1086: That is badass. The frisson of those mixed messages. How can he resist her?
I’m thinking their love-child shall be called Kaintoko.
lawnorder
Welcome to the light side, young jedi!
srv
Fuck fuck fuckity fuck. E.D. FAIL.
We don’t need another cheese eating emopants Obot surrender monkey here. We need the real thing or at least a troll who can keep up the damned pretense of antagonizing the masses.
If you can’t do that, then a few weekly posts about how thoughtful the Jane Hamshers of the Left are on occassion.
Be the punching bag.
RalfW
Absolutely! This may be an attack on teachers and clerical workers at the moment, but the cops and firefighters know they could be next.
And really, any right of workers to organize for their own benefit is under attack here.
It really wasn’t that long ago that private companies were savagely beating workers, even shooting them dead, for the outrageous demand that labor have a say on their own behalf.
Walker has crossed a line. Working people have been shat on by corporate America for long enough. They see how huge, minimally taxed profits inure not one whit to them but only to the top, and their cronies like Walker, and I think we’re going to see the situation in Madison expand. I sure hope so. I’ve half a mind to head down their myself (5 hr drive…)
Gian
If it’s any sort of balm, there was a time when the GOP actually had a strong reform (even progressive wing)
Teddy Roosevelt was part of it on the national stage, as was Hiram Johnson in California http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Johnson
say what you will about Teddy – and the guy had his faults – when push came to shove, he put his rear end where his mouth was – he pushed to the spanish american war when he was asst sec of the navy, and when he got it, he resigned, he recruited volunteers, and he went to fight in that war. I can’t think of a single high ranking cabinet officer in the last 40 years who has done the same.
Teddy was famous for trust-busting as president, and like Johnson hated corruption with a white hot fury – it got him in a mess in NY with the GOP machine in his day.
Anyway, it’s like every sane republican has been silenced by the new Birchers
The Raven
Welcome to the left side of the aisle. We don’t win a lot of battles, but we have the good songs.
JGabriel
@Jeanne ringland:
Sorry to be so belated in answering this.
This takes place way back in Erik’s transition phase around, oh, say 3 months ago. One of Kain’s LOG readers bashed BJ for being mean to libertarians and bemoaned someone as brill and talented as Erik wasting his time here, and Kain responded that he thought of himself as an “ombudsman” … to the ignorant liberal hordes seemed implied.
Cue flame war, hazing, popcorn, and snark.
E.D. has definitely moved into a more comfortable zone here since then.
.
smedley
@freelancer: Nuance. Isn’t that a kind of candy bar?
Chocolate with a nuance center?
E.D. Kain
@Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): Alas I am not nearly clever enough to be pranking anyone.
@srv: I’m not sure where the fail is. I’m saying that my intuition is backing my reason. That’s all. I’m hardly an Obot for chrissakes.
arguingwithsignposts
@smedley: There is no nuance in Balloon Juice. it’s like mentioning fight club!
smedley
@E.D. Kain: What about that ‘fat’ guy in NJ. He’s thrashin’ and trashin’ with the best of them. Yet, no great outrage about him.
asiangrrlMN
Welcome to the club, E.D. I’m pleasantly surprised that it took less time than I thought it would.
Chuck Butcher
Do you suppose there’s something in the WP that’s bad for “conservatives?”
Well ED, growth involves change and that is always hard – good luck…um, it tends to keep happening.
Matoko – there is a significant difference between civil libertarian and Libertarian. Really pretty large, ya know, like BIG.
JustBeingPedantic
Like asiangrrlMN says, “Welcome to the club!”
I recall writing a comment to one of your early posts here in which I said something to the effect of, “E.D., I think you’re a liberal.” I think it’s great that you’ve come around to see that in yourself, too.
Steeplejack
@General Stuck:
Stuck, I love this post! Humility is the tao.
zuzu (not that one, the other one)
@E.D. Kain: Glad to see you clearly denounce it, though I don’t agree that you plainly said the analogy was a bad idea, certainly not here, where you end by asking why it’s such a troubling comparison even if you do support abortion rights.
Maybe now that you’ve started leftward, you could write a post addressing it and clarifying your position, and why, yes, it IS a troubling comparison. Without adding in the whole “Gosh, I certainly see why someone might see it that way” hedging.
mazareth
On recalling Fuehrer Walker — He has to be in office a year before we can mount a recall.
I’m ready to work for that when the time comes!
Solidarity!
lllphd
EDK, appreciate so much your humble candor; this takes courage and, most importantly, honesty. real honesty, as in ‘to thine own self be true.’ when that tenet is kept, you can’t be anything else with others.
you’ve done what i’ve kept hoping for years sully would do. instead, we get this unchristian, inhumane snarl:
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/02/showing-the-victims.html
yeah; the math is more important than human suffering. sigh.
lllphd
@mazareth:
someone needs to mount a feingold for guv campaign!! NOW!!
Michael
@Violet: The thinking conservatives are not moving left, the right is receeding fast and leaving the sensible exposed like fish on the beach. In the US, unlike most other democracies, you have 2 choices and when you can no longer, in good concience, support the out of control right all that is left is the left.
matoko_chan
@E.D. Kain:
you dishonest lying fucker. you DEFENDED the right of people to believe that. you SAID IT WAS REASONABLE.
that is what conservatives do, they defend the RIGHT of the base to believe in stupid bad, wrong and counterfactual ideas, and their right to try to IMPOSE their beliefs on the rest of us.
you havent changed a nanoparticle since culture 11.
ALL:
Aimai got this fucker cold.
EDK wants a pat on the back because hes “evolving”.
He hasnt evolved since Culture 11.
He’s still a civil libertarian, he still pushes “we are all the same”, he still defends the god-given right of the conservative base to believe in counterfactual, wrong, bad, and stupid ideas and to try to IMPOSE those ideas on the rest of us.
Him riffing about unions and schools is like Conor writing about Palin at Culture 11 or Levin at the dish.
SO FUCKING WHAT?
EDK agrees with the obvious but hes just trimming.
THEY HAVENT CHANGED THEIR CORE IDEOLOGY A NANOPARTICLE.
Conservatism is a failed paradigm.
Empirically, it didnt work.
Empirically, it CANT work.
When EDK admits that i’ll believe hes changed.
until then hes frontin for the cudlips.
matoko_chan
@zuzu (not that one, the other one):
this.
all EDK has ever done since i met him is pander, hedge, and weasel shit.
hes pandering to juicers right naow, by pretending to share ideology.
there has been no Glorious Conversion.
gotta lissen to Maya
EDK banned me for trying to get him to educate his readership, instead of pandering to them. exactly like the reasonableness of fetus = slave, the reasonableness of AGW denialism, the reasonableness of IDT and all that anti-empirical base crapology.
soonergrunt
@E.D. Kain: I think he’s calling a ‘right-leaning troll/front pager* fail.’
*troll, front-pager, one and the same thing on this blog.
matoko_chan
what is destroying our country is not partisanship and ideological purity….its anti-empiricism.
its lying.
conservatism doesnt work. evolution happened. Hayek was wrong. IDT is crapology. AGW is a fact. fetuses are not slaves.
until EDK can admit those facts….he hasnt changed.
he is frontin’ for your approval, like aimai said.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
I’m late to this thread. Was there a general denunciation of Stalin that I missed?
jfxgillis
Erik:
Seeded this to the Vine.