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You are here: Home / Two Lane crackpot

Two Lane crackpot

by DougJ|  February 20, 20111:44 pm| 109 Comments

This post is in: Our Failed Media Experiment

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Keith Olbermann tweets that Charles Lane should be dismissed for presuming to speak for Gabrielle Giffords. I agree, but I doubt it will happen. I have tried to speak to various people at the Washington Post about this, but they seem reluctant to discuss it.

Steve Benen writes:

Keep in mind, Charles Lane isn’t some Fox News personality. I’ve seen him publish a variety of worthwhile commentaries in recent years.

Unfortunately, Lane is now essentially a Fox News personality in all but name. He once wrote thoughtful, dogged pieces — including one of the most important take-downs of The Bell Curve — but now he does nothing but rail against electric cars and in favor of teabaggers. The recent shameless exploitation of Gabrielle Giffords is the worst example, but it’s of a piece with his other writings.

A Wall Street Journal editorial board member recently said of Glenn Beck “”next to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck is the most important conservative”.

There is no important distinction between Fox News and the editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post. There isn’t much between distinction between Fox News and many of Charlie Rose’s guest either. When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a “serious newspaper”, carrying a totebag.

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Reader Interactions

109Comments

  1. 1.

    kdaug

    February 20, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    When fascism comes to America…

    Whatchu mean by “comes”, compadre?

  2. 2.

    Short Bus Bully

    February 20, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a “serious newspaper”, carrying a totebag.

    Christ on a crutch, if it’s not already here I don’t want to know when it does arrive.

  3. 3.

    Elizabelle

    February 20, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a “serious newspaper”, carrying a totebag.

    Word.

    Agree with commenter 2; I think it’s here.

    Our fellow citizens are just too glib or distracted to acknowledge it.

  4. 4.

    A Commenter at Balloon Juice (formerlyThe Grand Panjandrum)

    February 20, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    I can’t wait until they start rounding up all the bloggers so I can be the only one left! Then Someone might actually read mine. Of course the downside is that I would have to update it more regularly. Sigh. It’s hard out here for an infrequent blogger.

  5. 5.

    curtis

    February 20, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Are you confusing Charles Lane and Charlie Rose? Or did I miss something?

  6. 6.

    jwb

    February 20, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    I hope someone does a study at some point of the funding of right wing media, looking at ad rates, who’s buying and so forth. Because from my perspective none of it makes any economic sense on its own. In and of itself, it especially makes no sense as to why so much of our media wants to occupy the ground from center-right to far right. Given what I know of the demographic breakdowns, about all you can say is that the right wing demographic is older and a stabler consumer of old media forms (newspapers, magazines, radio and television). But even there, the basic numbers remain surprisingly small. So that makes me wonder if the ad departments of corporations are paying a premium on ads that support conservative content, and that accounts for why everyone wants that niche.

  7. 7.

    agrippa

    February 20, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    They are too something to notice it; distracted, glib, ignorant, etc. Most will never take notice.

    American fascism will be a kind of deniable fascism. Certain democratic forms will be observed: elections and electoral campaigns; the two parties; the Fed Govt and the 50 states. Democracy in form; but, not in fact.

    Equally important is the economy. We face years of economic stagnation; a variety of permanent recession.
    Europe will come out of this better than the USA, and be in better shape econmically and politically than the USA.

  8. 8.

    morzer

    February 20, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a “serious newspaper”, carrying a totebag.

    And trailing a primal scent. Don’t forget the primal scent.

    “And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Applebee’s salad bar to be born?”

  9. 9.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 20, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a “serious newspaper”, carrying a totebag.

    Simultaneously funny and sad, because it’s true.

    Wasn’t Lane also the genius who suggested the solution to unemployment was lowering (or doing away with?) the minimum wage?

  10. 10.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    February 20, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    @agrippa:

    They are too something to notice it; distracted, glib, ignorant, etc. Most will never take notice.

    Too anxious about their socio-economic status, for reasons real (economic) and imagined (socio-) and tired from trying to preserve it.

  11. 11.

    Hunter Gathers

    February 20, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a “serious newspaper”, carrying a totebag, foaming at the mouth and riding in a Medicare provided Hover Round

    Fixed.

  12. 12.

    Corner Stone

    February 20, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    @A Commenter at Balloon Juice (formerlyThe Grand Panjandrum): Shouldn’t you be hiking the AT or something?

  13. 13.

    ruemara

    February 20, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    fascism is here, parading a giant pasty white ass around main street with the new “seig heil” being “american exceptionalism”. Whachyutawkin ’bout Willis on ‘when comes’ thing?

  14. 14.

    RSA

    February 20, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    It’s incredible (well, almost) that Lane would title his piece “Tyranny in Wisconsin, Part 4”. Does Lane understand the meaning of the word?

  15. 15.

    Dennis SGMM

    February 20, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    @agrippa:
    I’d guess that people don’t notice the creeping fascism because our version isn’t packing any of the overt symbolism that people associate with fascism; there are no torchlight parades, no bombastic speeches, hell, we haven’t even invaded Poland. I call it “cozy fascism.”

  16. 16.

    kdaug

    February 20, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Wasn’t Lane also the genius who suggested the solution to unemployment was lowering (or doing away with?) the minimum wage?

    That, or Soylent Green.

  17. 17.

    morzer

    February 20, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Dunno about the bombastic speeches. Watching Palin’s performance at the GOP convention was pretty damn alarming, even a thousand miles away.

  18. 18.

    MattF

    February 20, 2011 at 2:22 pm

    So, when did labor unions become the Devil Incarnate? I remember, some years ago, mocking Newt Gingrich because of the way he turned from ‘possibly rational conservative’ to ‘frothing at the mouth crazy person’ when the subject of unions came up– but I didn’t realize that ol’ Newt was following a shift in the Village Viewpoint. I’ll note now that Newt has since gone completely bonkers; that bodes ill for the Village Viewpoint.

  19. 19.

    Dennis SGMM

    February 20, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    @morzer:
    To be sure, Palin’s speech was as insidious as any Sportspalast rant back in the Thirties, it just lacked the bombastic oratorical style.

  20. 20.

    JGabriel

    February 20, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    DougJ @ Top:

    A Wall Street Journal editorial board member recently said of Glenn Beck “”next to Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck is the most important conservative”.

    It’s troubling that conservatives seem to think important and crazy are synonyms.

    .

  21. 21.

    morzer

    February 20, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Well, I would say she was pretty gosh-darn gee shucks bombastic, in her red pumps and all. It’s a more down-home style of bombast, but still….

  22. 22.

    Elia

    February 20, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    I really wonder what happens to people like Lane when they go from the article you linked to re: Bell Curve to writing that Giffords would hate Obama for being uncivil. It’s fascinating, really. I know it’s all based around living in DC and wanting to fit in etc., but I wish some pointy-headed elitists would do an in-depth study of what exactly it is about Atlantic salons that cause seemingly rational people to hold bizarre, incoherent, and mean-spirited positions.

  23. 23.

    Jeffro

    February 20, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    @morzer:

    “And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Applebee’s salad bar to be born?”

    Oh yes, I did indeed just fall out of my chair.
    Morzer: 1
    Bobo: 0

  24. 24.

    DougJ®

    February 20, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    @Elia:

    I think 9/11 might have changed everything for him.

  25. 25.

    Shoemaker-Levy 9

    February 20, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    When fascism comes to America

    By complete coincidence I caught about three quarters of the “He’s Alive” episode of Twilight Zone this morning. It was fascinating how much of the rhetoric was redolent of a current group of people that I can’t name because Jon Stewart tells me it’s wrong to make the comparison, so I won’t do it.

  26. 26.

    JGabriel

    February 20, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    MattF:

    So, when did labor unions become the Devil Incarnate?

    Wikipedia:

    1806 (United States): Commonwealth vs. Pullis was the first reported case arising from a labor strike in the United States. After a three-day trial, the jury found the defendants guilty of “a combination to raise their wages” and fined.

    So, probably a bit earlier than 1806, assuming that people were pissed off about labor unions for a few years before taking legal action and winding their way up to the Supreme Court — but 1806 that seems as good a start date as any for the official problamation of “Devil Incarnate”.

    .

    .

  27. 27.

    MikeJ

    February 20, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    Both sides do it. Can’t you be more civil, like that nice David Brooks?

  28. 28.

    Loneoak

    February 20, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    Come on, I get that you have a complaint against NPR/PBS/totebaggers. But the notion that NPR/PBS listeners/watchers are going to be supportive of a fascist state is beyond ridiculous. Complaining that these media outlets are too friendly to Beltway wisdom is a perhaps a reasonable complaint (although NPR remains one of the very few outlets producing actual journalism these days), but it is a loooong slippery slope to venture down to say that totebaggers are going to be conspicuous supporters of fascism. Fascism coincides with serious violence against political minorities and the construction of a criminal state, but the reasonble complaint against totebaggers is that they are too milquetoast to stand up for real political changes.

    The whole implication that totebaggers are a more serious threat than teabaggers is just fucking stupid, and far more stupid that I would expect from you.

  29. 29.

    JGabriel

    February 20, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    JGabriel (Me) @ 26:

    So, probably a bit earlier than 1806, assuming that people were pissed off about labor unions for a few years before taking legal action and winding their way up to the Supreme Court

    Totally WRONG. My mistake. It was a common city court, not the Supreme Court. Sorry for the confusion.

    But 1806 still seems as good a date as any for the first time people got pissed off enough, in the US, at labor to take them to court.

    .

  30. 30.

    arguingwithsignposts

    February 20, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    @Loneoak:

    (although NPR remains one of the very few outlets producing actual journalism these days)

    Yes, like those segments where they have Cokie Roberts and David Brooks on. And that’s not even mentioning Marketplace’s David Frum and Megan McArdle bullshit.

  31. 31.

    Citizen_X

    February 20, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    Sort of on-topic: my favorite Teabagger sign from the protests appears in Huffpo’s rotating front-page pics today (sorry, haven’t found individual pic to link to). It reads,

    “WEREN’T YOU THE ANTI-WAR PROTESTORS TOO?.”

    Oh, go with that message, Teabaggers, that’s a winner! Yes, we’re those people who “were right for the wrong reasons,” in Villagespeak.

    (Also, said sign-holder seems to be from the Bikers’ Division of the Teabagger Army. Don’t know the sociology of that subgroup. Meth dealers for less soshulizm?)

  32. 32.

    DougJ®

    February 20, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    @Loneoak:

    To the extent that they take Charlie Rose or David Brooks seriously, they are supporting fascism. I understand your point that PBS watchers (I am one myself) are generally not fascists; I never said they were. The carrying a cross/waving a flag expression wasn’t meant to imply most Christians or flag-wavers are fascists either, it was a comment on the insidious nature of right-wing propaganda.

  33. 33.

    FlipYrWhig

    February 20, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    @MattF: It’s particularly public employees’ unions that are the bugbear of the right — it helps them make a case that Our Tax Money is going to feather the nests of bureaucrats and functionaries, who then in turn take what’s left of Our Money and pool it into a political force that argues in a self-interested way for More Big Government. That’s their place in the chain of enemies the Right must smite.

  34. 34.

    FlipYrWhig

    February 20, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    @Citizen_X:

    “WEREN’T YOU THE ANTI-WAR PROTESTORS TOO?.”

    Which war?

  35. 35.

    morzer

    February 20, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    @DougJ®:

    Actually, it’s more about how fascism has to make itself seem respectable, indigenous, even natural. That’s why we get all the constitutional originalism, the American way etc etc. the natural corollary is the attempt to present the left/liberals as subversive, alien, unnatural, not really American.

  36. 36.

    Citizen_X

    February 20, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Ask him. Iraq, I would guess.

  37. 37.

    Elia

    February 20, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Has anybody ever snarked yet about the 9/11 Changed Everything meme vs. the implicit The Financial Crisis of 2008 Changed Nothing meme?

  38. 38.

    Loneoak

    February 20, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Or the Planet Money reports on the financial crisis or their many collaborations with ProPublica or their very large (and expanding) foreign correspondent corp or their …

    Look, your complaint is not about NPR as such, it is about what appears to be possible within mainstream media. MSNBC has Pat Buchannan, but do you imply Rachel Maddow fans will be supporting the coming fascist state? Nope, never seen that suggested here. Cokie Roberts and David Brooks and their ilk are to be found in every single fucking news medium available to us, other than DailyKos and the Onion. It’s not a sign of coming fascism, it’s a sign of how hard it is to get ahead in journalism if you have something smart to say. Totebaggers is a lazy shorthand that skips over an actual critique of our news media ecologies.

    @DougJ®:

    I understand your point that PBS watchers (I am one myself) are generally not fascists; I never said they were.

    So Totebaggers refers to whom? David Brooks? The editors at NPR/PBS? The only reasonable interpretation of that term is people who have totebags, i.e., NPR listeners.

    David Brooks is awful, but mostly because he has annoyingly hit the perfect pitch for psuedo-intellectual nonsense that makes people who earn $100K+ but don’t mind having a black neighbor feel good. NPR and NYT Op-Ed pages are the only place a person like that can develop—if he’s a parasite on the other good things happening there, so be it.

    The very point of David Brooks is to be taken seriously. You don’t undermine that by calling him a fascist, you undermine that by making fun of him.

  39. 39.

    Janus Daniels

    February 20, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    The gig for the Charlies (Lane, Rose, Hitchens) and the rest pays well for as long as you they stomach it.

  40. 40.

    vheidi

    February 20, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    @DougJ®: I am gritting my teeth reading Chris Hedges'”Death of the Liberal Class.” Can’t stand more than a few pages at a time.
    He’s shrill.

  41. 41.

    Elia

    February 20, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    The media’s problem is most certainly not a stupid/smart dichotomy. I think that’s self-evidently silly, if I understand you correctly.

  42. 42.

    DougJ®

    February 20, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    @vheidi:

    I heard him on the radio two weeks and actually thought he was too shrill even for my tastes. Now I think he’s right about everything.

  43. 43.

    Jager

    February 20, 2011 at 3:06 pm

    Once those damn unions are finally history, the military will be next, why a strapping young buck can make almost $2,000 a month as a PFC, and get free food, free clothing and HEALTH CARE…the outrage, somebody slip George Will and military pay chart, his hair will catch fire!

  44. 44.

    Napoleon

    February 20, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    I am reading Robert Caro’s 3rd in the series of bios of LBJ called Master of the Senate and it has an extended history of the senate at the beginning, and it discusses speechs given regarding this or that issue in the 30s or 40s, something prosaic like extending Social Security or passing an anti-lynching bill or raising the minimum wage and the rights response (and by right I mean office holders in the Senate) was straight out of the worse you see from the worse today (of course including accusations of soc*****ism and the like).

    Nothing has changed with that crew.

  45. 45.

    arguingwithsignposts

    February 20, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    @Loneoak:

    Or the Planet Money reports on the financial crisis or their many collaborations with ProPublica or their very large (and expanding) foreign correspondent corp or their …

    Look, I like a lot of NPR, but really – they could cut the “both sides do it” bullshit and it wouldn’t hurt me a bit. And BTW, Alex Bloomberg (the pudgy one with the glasses?) is more than a bit of a libertarian, from what I’ve heard from some of their podcasts.

    And BTW, I don’t think Pat Buchanan should have a microphone anywhere in the mainstream media, and that is a black spot on Rachel’s otherwise stellar record.

    And in this instance, I took totebaggers to be the same as Very Serious People who hire people like Michael Fucking Gerson, David Fucking Brooks, Ross Fucking Douchat, George Fucking Will, Charles Fucking Krauthammer, and Charles Fucking Lane, to name just a few. The people who commission 4,000-word articles about how much the rich are hurting in this recession, etc. And, yes, the people who allow Megan McArdle to spew her mathematically-challenged bullshit *every fucking day.*

  46. 46.

    Elia

    February 20, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    @DougJ®: Was he just reiterating the argument from his latest book or was there something more? If so, any chance that it’s online? Thanks, either way.

  47. 47.

    MikeJ

    February 20, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    @Jager: You will remember that Republicans argued that Americorps volunteers weren’t really volunteers since they got paid. They same would certainly be true of the volunteer army.

    Bachmann has already tried to cut veterans’ benefits. The only thing stopping them from going after active duty is their dream that the military will be used again to shoot down DFHs.

  48. 48.

    Tom Q

    February 20, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    loneoak, are you aware that DougJ’s “if fascism ever comes…” quote is an intended echo of a Huey Long quote? Because it seems it’s the simple word “fascism” that’s hanging you up here, which I believe to DougJ simply means an ever-rightward push in our Village media, propelled forward by the fact that the allegedly serious/reasonable people are willing to countenance previously unthinkable ideas as part of the general discourse.

    This Republican Party is, as Paul Krugman first noted, a radical force. It keeps proposing ever more out-of-the-mainstream ideas, and the Village premise that each one is simply a topic for “both sides have a point” discussion is making maintaining a marginally progressive society a perilous proposition. And they don’t offer the same welcome to the slightest push from the left. Obama was elected just over 2 years ago with great majorities in Congress, and their first words to him were to watch out he didn’t over-reach. By contrast, the GOP — aided by skewed turnout and a massive economic downturn — picked up one house of Congress and (by narrow margins) a few mid-Western governorships, and this is presented as a mandate to repeal the 20th century. It may not fit the Webster’s definition of “fascism”, but it’s getting alot closer than alot of us are prepared to tolerate.

  49. 49.

    SteveinSC

    February 20, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    People who hire people like Michael Fucking Gerson, David Fucking Brooks, Ross Fucking Douchat, George Fucking Will, Charles Fucking Krauthammer, and Charles Fucking Lane…

    Nailed.

  50. 50.

    jwb

    February 20, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    @Napoleon: Yes, if you watch enough Hollywood film, you will also see that the discourse hasn’t much changed since the 1930s.

  51. 51.

    Loneoak

    February 20, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Look, I like a lot of NPR, but really – they could cut the “both sides do it” bullshit and it wouldn’t hurt me a bit.

    Agreed. But what you are talking about is re-inventing non-partisan media. Something I want just as much as you, but the non-specificity of totebaggers won’t get you there.

    I don’t really care if Alex Bloomberg is a Libertarian. I don’t want NPR to be partisan, I want it to be smarter and sharper than David Brooks.

  52. 52.

    vheidi

    February 20, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    @DougJ®: Agreed.

  53. 53.

    arguingwithsignposts

    February 20, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    @Loneoak:

    I don’t want NPR to be partisan, I want it to be smarter and sharper than David Brooks.

    Well, then tell them to fire David Fucking Brooks. Hell, I’d even sacrifice EJ Dionne for the cause.

    BTW, I don’t think I’m talking about reinventing non-partisan media. I’m talking about reinventing “bi-partisan” media – the back and forth that Jon Stewart railed against on Crossfire. Just because NPR does it doesn’t make it any better.

  54. 54.

    Caz

    February 20, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    Do you even realize how much your hatred of conservative ideals is skewing your view of the world?? It’s pouring out of every orifice of this blog.

    What is so wrong about standing up for limited government, adherence to the Constitution, and assurance of individual liberty?

    I understand you are in favor of the “soshulist” nanny state, but that’s not what this country was founded as, so get over it already.

    Rather than discuss the merits of ANY of the issues you blog about, all you do is try to find something you can bash and hate in them. Something a little more analytical and critically thought out than “asshole” would be refreshing once in a while, lol.

    I would love to see you debate one of the Fox News personalities you hate so much. They’d tear you a new one of your favorite words!

  55. 55.

    eemom

    February 20, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    fwiw, there is some confusion between NPR and PBS here. I’ve never heard David Brooks on NPR, though he is regularly on Snooze Hour.

    Actually it would be better if he WAS on NPR — then I wouldn’t have to LOOK at his loathsome grinning smug mug.

    NPR has Mara Liasson though. Hate the twat, though I have the good fortune to not know what she looks like.

  56. 56.

    Davis X. Machina

    February 20, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    The whole implication that totebaggers are a more serious threat than teabaggers is just fucking stupid, and far more stupid that I would expect from you.

    You need two things to actually get to Fascism — a small bunch of people to do something, and a much larger bunch of people to do nothing.

    The totebaggers are perfect candidates, by training and inclination, for the second role.

  57. 57.

    Davis X. Machina

    February 20, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    @Caz:

    What is so wrong about standing up for limited government, adherence to the Constitution, and assurance of individual liberty?

    I’m waiting for the advocates of limited government, adherence to the Constitution, and assurance of individual liberty to, you know, stand up for limited government, adherence to the Constitution, and assurance of individual liberty.

  58. 58.

    Elia

    February 20, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    When you’re dealing with radicalism, you’re either going to be “partisan” or you’re going to be complicit.

    The media’s in an uncomfortable position, I’ll give ’em that, but the amount of self-pity I hear from journos about the pressure not to be “liberal media”; and the amount of excuse-making, the consistent refusal to acknowledge that they’re capable of making choices; it’s stupid from both an ethical and business standpoint.

    And I know we’re talking about NPR, but refusing to call waterboarding, when we do it, torture (NYTimes), is aiding a turn towards authoritarianism. (The overlap between NPR and NYT folks is pretty enormous.)

    ETA: To the person above, I’ve heard Brooks on NPR countless times.

  59. 59.

    arguingwithsignposts

    February 20, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    @eemom: He’s regularly on a segment with EJ Dionne on afternoon program

  60. 60.

    arguingwithsignposts

    February 20, 2011 at 3:35 pm

    @Caz:

    I would love to see you debate one of the Fox News personalities you hate so much. They’d tear you a new one of your favorite words!

    I would donate to that fund drive, as long as it went to my fav. NPR station.

  61. 61.

    jwb

    February 20, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    @Caz: Man, don’t we warrant better trolls than this? DougJ, can you put us in for a troll upgrade?

  62. 62.

    eemom

    February 20, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Stand corrected. I almost never listen during the early afternoon.

  63. 63.

    scav

    February 20, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    I’m waiting for the advocates of limited government, adherence to the Constitution, and assurance of individual liberty to, you know, stand up for limited government, adherence to the Constitution, and assurance of individual liberty.

    Yup. I’m behind you in that line and it’s been a bloody long wait.

  64. 64.

    morzer

    February 20, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    @jwb:

    “As you know, you go to war with the trolls you have. They’re not the trolls you might want or wish to have at a later time.”

    Or so someone almost said, back in the never-never.

  65. 65.

    James E Powell

    February 20, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    @Tom Q:

    That quote about if or when fascism comes to America has been attributed to Huey Long and Sinclair Lewis, but no source for either has ever been found.

  66. 66.

    Chyron HR

    February 20, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    @Caz:

    U R LAME AND STUPID

    Gosh, you told us. But why are you wasting your time here when you’re needed on the front lines of the GOP’s War on Teacherism?

  67. 67.

    agrippa

    February 20, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yes, Jim. Sad and true

  68. 68.

    agrippa

    February 20, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    @Caz:

    Caz:

    I am not buying what you are selling. Thanks, but no thanks.

    Get a new sales pitch. You are not helping yourself at all.

  69. 69.

    Davis X. Machina

    February 20, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    @scav: If I thought for a moment they argued what they do keeping their eyes on The Federalist Papers, or the Second Treatise on Civil Government, or Nozick, or even Carlyle’s An Occasional Discourse on the Negro Question, I’d cut them some slack.

    But they’re looking at the scoreboard, and nothing else. A philosophy grounded in the work of the master, Al “Just win, baby” Davis.

  70. 70.

    DougJ®

    February 20, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    @Caz:

    You gave it away with your last line. You are a spoof.

  71. 71.

    Mike G

    February 20, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    @jwb:

    Caz is a TrollBot3000(TM). It’s still in beta testing.

  72. 72.

    Tom Q

    February 20, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    @James E Powell: Really? Thanks for the info. (Really, Sinclair Lewis? It sounds more Upton Sinclair’s alley)

    I still assume it’s what DougJ was referencing, and loneoak didn’t seem to catch that.

  73. 73.

    James E Powell

    February 20, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    @Caz:

    What is so wrong about standing up for limited government, adherence to the Constitution, and assurance of individual liberty?

    No liberal or leftie with whom I am familiar has any problem with those ideals. But they are vague enough to serve as ad copy for just about any set of policies.

    There is, however, a larger issue implied that should be addressed more forthrightly. That is, does the charter of government developed by the founding generation serve the needs of post-industrial America? And by America, I mean all of the people living here, not just the rich ones.

    The founders had their flaws; they were people of their era. But they had the intelligence to understand that the monarchy-aristocracy model wasn’t going to work for them. One thing I wish people today would consider among the founders’ legacy is the moral and intellectual courage to consider whether the current form of government serves their needs and to remember that, if not, “it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.”

  74. 74.

    DougJ®

    February 20, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    @eemom:

    I have heard him on the radio, for sure.

  75. 75.

    Dennis SGMM

    February 20, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    @Caz:
    Nothing is preventing anyone from FOX coming here and tearing us a new one. Nothing that is, except their innumeracy, their incoherent ideology and their reliance on lies.

  76. 76.

    Zuzu's Petals

    February 20, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    @Citizen_X:

    Ah, you mean this pic?

    Pret-ty funny.

  77. 77.

    Davis X. Machina

    February 20, 2011 at 4:23 pm

    @James E Powell:

    “it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.”

    So much hinges on to whom that ‘them’ and ‘their’ in the last clause refer.

    If NewsCorp was alive in 1787, we’d still be living under some version of the Articles.

  78. 78.

    Elizabelle

    February 20, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    @Tom Q:

    Your comment 48 is spot on.

    This would not be happening if we had a credible media, rather than the corporate careerists totebagging out there now.

  79. 79.

    Oliver

    February 20, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    Facism’s already here. It’s found in the published brain farts of bloggers such as DougJ and media types such as K. Olbermann.

  80. 80.

    morzer

    February 20, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    @Oliver:

    Isn’t your line:

    “Please, sir, I want some more?”

  81. 81.

    MeDrewNotYou

    February 20, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    @Oliver: I do not think that word means what you think it means.

  82. 82.

    Davis X. Machina

    February 20, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    @morzer:

    If we’re going to start teaching to the test, I think the Turing test should be the first test we start teaching to.

  83. 83.

    kyle

    February 20, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    There is no important distinction between Fox News and the editorial pages of the Wall Street Journal and Washington Post. … When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a “serious newspaper”, carrying a totebag.

    So Charles Lane is a fascist.

  84. 84.

    pragmatism

    February 20, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    We know that giffords was concerned about the violent rhetoric and its consequences. I doubt being actually shot changed her mind Charles.

  85. 85.

    PIGL

    February 20, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    @Caz: I don’t hate “conservative ideas” so much as I find them wrong, dangerous, camouflage for plotocracy, and impossible to be taken seriously by anyone who isn’t an idiot. Only “Conservatives” seem capable, even determined, to hate abstract concepts. Hell, you morons even declare war on them.

    What I hate is you and people like you. I want to watch you die slowly from a mangling industrial accident or toxic spill caused by a deregulated industry. Then I want to burn your body, piss on the ashes, and add to them the excrement of dogs. This noisome mixture I would use to fertilise a patch of stinging nettles and poison ivy. On the first cold wretched day of November, I would harvest the material, dry it in the mercury-laden smoke of a coal burning power plant, and proceed to step 2.

    After Beelzebub has this way with you for a few hundred million years, you will truly know the meaning of green fascism, and wish you had Shut The Fucked Up.

  86. 86.

    Caz

    February 20, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Haha, good comments! I’m literally the only one that doesn’t agree with the unanimous hate going on here. I’m not familiar with the term “troll” for what I’m doing, but I get it based on the context. Pretty cool, I’m happy you all have a name for me!

    Does it tell you anything that no one with an opposing view ever participates in these threads?

    Normally, with analytical discussions on the merits of issues, you get a balanced group of commenters from both sides. That this site has virtually no commenters from the other side tells me that no one takes this blog seriously, probably because it has no substance and is filled with hate. I read it because I personally was friends with Cole when I was at WVU, and he’s a pretty cool dude. Plus, I’m always down for some entertaining progressive hatemongering.

    When I want substance, I read Cato’s blog. Check it out sometime, you might learn something. Or at least get some more fodder for your hateful bloggings.

    Keep up the good work, retards!

  87. 87.

    Quarks

    February 20, 2011 at 5:12 pm

    It tells me something that the opposing view thinks that using “retards” and name calling is appropriate and intelligent argumentation.

  88. 88.

    PIGL

    February 20, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    @Caz: The troll does not know it is a troll. The stupid can not contain itself.

    Just in case there is a person in there, we don’t care to discuss your lame ideas because we have each concluded more or less recently that they are wrong. No “substance” from the Cato Institute or any other wingbot.org is going to change our minds, because they have not had anything new to say in decades….we can predict with 100% reliabilty what will their position on any given topic.

  89. 89.

    DougJ®

    February 20, 2011 at 5:17 pm

    @kyle:

    Yes, I think so. I don’t use that term especially lightly.

  90. 90.

    Caz

    February 20, 2011 at 5:18 pm

    Haha, are you kidding, Quarks? This site is based around name-calling. They have a category called “Assholes” for christ’s sake. Just about every post on here has name-calling and hateful attacks aimed at some conservative person or group. I was just going with the flow and using the manners expected on this site – just trying to fit in, Quarks!

  91. 91.

    morzer

    February 20, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    @Caz:

    So when do we get your substantial posts?

    Just askin’.

  92. 92.

    Elia

    February 20, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    @Caz: My experience on Red State, the Corner, Big Gov’t etc. indeed has always been a civil but lively debate between two evenly-divided ideological factions.

    What I’m trying to say is: your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

  93. 93.

    morzer

    February 20, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    @Caz:

    Gluon!

  94. 94.

    PeakVT

    February 20, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    Would everyone please get it through your heads that American Public Media produces Marketplace, not National Public Radio. And it is YOUR LOCAL STATION that chooses to put Marketplace on, not Cokie or Bobo.

    kthx.

  95. 95.

    James E Powell

    February 20, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    Maybe I wasn’t clear enough, but I am referring to all the people who live in the U.S.

    While I am certain that a very public discussion concerning the adequacy of our form of government to our forms of government, I am not sanguine about any such discussion occurring in my lifetime. Anyone who suggests that the way things are right now is not the best-est evah! is immediately removed from the public forum and shunned.

    Only powerless laments are allowed. These are the kind indulged in by the liberal class (as described by Chris Hedges).

  96. 96.

    Chuck Butcher

    February 20, 2011 at 5:33 pm

    It must be a boring Sunday to respond to a Caz. I’m bored enough to have read it…

  97. 97.

    Caz

    February 20, 2011 at 5:53 pm

    And I’m bored enough to spend more than 5 minutes on this god forsaken site. But Fox News doesn’t have very good programming on Sundays, and I’m tired of hearing about the cowardly democrats who have fled Wisconsin, the doctors unethically passing out sick notes to the strikers, and the line of state troopers separating the strikers and the tea partiers walking circles around the capitol. Maybe I’ll watch Huckabee later so I can fall asleep for a nice nap.

    And unfortunately, I can’t watch Olberman anymore. So this site is like a poor man’s Olberman.

    If you want substantive posts, go read Cato Institute’s blog. It’s neither republican nor democrat, they bash both, and they provide the most inciteful analysis of the issues found anywhere on the matrix.

  98. 98.

    morzer

    February 20, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    @Caz:

    Still trying to give yourself a BJ special, Caz? Just remember that when the medical men start laughing hysterically, it was your choice.

  99. 99.

    Shalimar

    February 20, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    @Oliver: Putting together a word you don’t like with people you don’t like doesn’t automatically make sense. As you so aptly prove with that brilliant example of gibberish.

  100. 100.

    Benjamin Cisco

    February 20, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    @Mike G: Sounds like something Widget is working on – won’t end well.

  101. 101.

    Allan

    February 20, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    This is a pretty interesting summary of various statements that might have formed the basis for the “When fascism comes to America…” line.

    The 1938 newspaper article embedded therein is a pretty chilling and prescient account of 2011 America.

  102. 102.

    hilts

    February 20, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    @Allan:

    Very informative link. Thanks for posting it.

  103. 103.

    agrippa

    February 20, 2011 at 10:43 pm

    @Caz:

    Caz: meltdown

  104. 104.

    agrippa

    February 20, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    @Caz:

    fatuous post.
    from an incompetent troll.

  105. 105.

    agrippa

    February 20, 2011 at 10:47 pm

    @Caz:

    caz

    your blog:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LCsiWL6gn0

  106. 106.

    Allan

    February 21, 2011 at 12:56 am

    @Caz:

    …and they provide the most inciteful analysis of the issues found anywhere on the matrix.

    I’ll take Freudian Slips for $200, Alex.

  107. 107.

    Wile E. Quixote

    February 21, 2011 at 1:35 am

    @Caz:

    If you want substantive posts, go read Cato Institute’s blog. It’s neither republican nor democrat, they bash both, and they provide the most inciteful analysis of the issues found anywhere on the matrix.

    Oh, would that be the Cato Institute that’s a fully owned and licensed subsidiary of Koch Industries. The Cato Institute is about as substantive as Pravda, Izvestia and Volkischer Beobachter were back in their day.

    Do you get paid for shilling for the Koch’s Caz? Or are you doing it for free?

  108. 108.

    Wile E. Quixote

    February 21, 2011 at 1:54 am

    @Caz:

    Do you even realize how much your hatred of conservative ideals is skewing your view of the world?? It’s pouring out of every orifice of this blog.
    __
    What is so wrong about standing up for limited government, adherence to the Constitution, and assurance of individual liberty?

    Nothing, why are you a conservative, because conservatives don’t believe in any of those things, and have the legislative record to prove it.

  109. 109.

    mey

    February 21, 2011 at 6:10 am

    I thought this was a fake, right? Posted by WBC to anonnews to get attention? Doesn’t sound like Anonymous, and based on other posts, while some anons don’t care for WBC, their not real high on their list of things to deal with.

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