First, I think it would be a real mistake if President Obama or the DNC got involved in the events in Wisconsin, Ohio or Indiana at this time. People are traveling to their statehouse to protest the actions of conservative governors. That’s where it belongs.
Further, although conservatives like to call Obama a Chicago Democrat, he is in fact an Illinois Democrat, having served in the state legislature and as a U.S. Senator. Call me crazy, but I think I’ll trust the political judgment of an actual Great Lakes elected Democrat over that of Ed Schultz.
The national media will move on here shortly, and resume focusing on how best to divvy up the necessary national sacrifices between lower middle class and poor people, and Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana will be left with state party support and the support of national union organizations. They’re doing great so far.
This is a good rundown of the situation in all three states, but I want to talk about Indiana, because I think Indiana is the most important.
Mitch Daniels and the conservative legislators in Indiana went after not just public sector unions, but private sector unions, with “right to work”.
Gov. Mitch Daniels, a Republican, accused the absent Democrats of showing “complete contempt for the democratic process,” adding, “You don’t walk off the job, take your public paycheck with you and attempt to bring the whole process to a halt.” But thousands of protesters in hard hats and work boots clogged the halls of the Statehouse, chanting and cheering in support of the Democrats, most of whom remained camped at a discount hotel in Urbana, Ill., about a two-hour drive across the state line from Indianapolis.
I think that was a mistake, and that mistake helps us. Despite punditry claims to the contrary, private sector unions are supporting the public sector union protests. Indiana will only bring more of that out.
For a long time in the midwest, private sector union members could vote for Republicans on taxes or social issues, secure in the knowledge that Republicans, while hardly a friend to labor, would retain the union status quo.
In the Statehouse in Indianapolis, the sound of the protests was similarly overwhelming. “The Democrats were tremendous to walk out, and they’ve got my vote,” said Rick Royer, 51, a heavy equipment operator. “I can put my daughter through college all because of the union. I’m going to support what got us here.”
liberal
That’s reasonable, on this issue in particular, but where does it end? The Republicans are trying to slash funding of the NLRB, and meanwhile what do the Dems do? Sign “free” trade agreements right and left to undercut the pay of manufacturing workers.
liberal
Kay,
Still would like to hear advice on where to send money to support the stuff in WI.
Kay
@liberal:
Oh, I have no idea. I’m in Ohio. I don’t think you should do that anyway. I think you should go to whatever local support action is close to you.
Joe Beese
Heavens to betsy, of course, we wouldn’t want the President making a strong show of support for the working class.
Just think how the Republicans would use it against him in 2012.
jonst
I’m with Joe B….we can’t have the President of the US supporting the concept of collective bargaining. God knows what message that would send to the Villagers. Just imagine what the Sunday talks shows would be about. Horrible. Horrible.
This is how far the friggin debate has shifted. What is outside the ‘mainstream’…and what is not.
Superluminar
But this is exactly right. The position the unions are taking is not necessarily wrong, in fact it could be considered “right” by some metrics of public choice, but it is unconsciable that publically funded politicians can ignore their duties, no matter how much abstaining may be tge ethically correct action to take.
A Commenter at Balloon Juice (formerlyThe Grand Panjandrum)
That final quote is critical to understanding just how important unions are to working families. I know several young people who are the first generation to go to college in their blue collar family because the union paid for it. One of my bicycling buddies is a retired union guy who sent his daughter to college because the union paid for it. These families and kids have NO COLLEGE LOANS. That is huge.
The Republicans just sent “Joe Six-Pack” rushing back into the arms of the Democrats.
kay
@jonst:
I’m out. I wanted to talk about union members and supporters in Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio.
You want to talk about “the villagers” and President Obama. Again.
Face
I would like to point out that the Wisconsin Din has drowned out what has to be a equally big deal — gas has jumped twenty cents overnight and is now $3.30 where I live, and that’s one of the cheaper areas. It must be over $3.50 in Chicago. How is that going to affect the recovery?
kay
@A Commenter at Balloon Juice (formerlyThe Grand Panjandrum):
If you listen to national conservatives, you’ll hear it again and again. This is about public sector unions.
There’s a reason they’re defending on that, and Indiana makes it a lie.
El Cid
David Brooks has just begun to excitedly hump Daniels’ legs.
Yeah! Let’s see some “empathizing” community organizer do that! Everyone knows that when anguished people spoke to Obama he just told them to shut up and go get their Democrat gubmit check.
Also, Daniels took Indiana from a post-Soviet hell of debt and disorder and transformed it into the gleaming cornfield on a hill it is now universally seen to be.
Of course, only people like a friendly favored conservative pseudo-sociologist ideologue Brooks and Daniels recognize the battle for America’s soul.
And in doing so he’ll bring all the jobs too.
I need to make sure and follow a direct link to Krugman’s Mon/Fri columns without stumbling on the rest of the NYT’s opinion pages.
stuckinred
@kay: Probably not the best strategy to have Obama in the lead sentence.
kay
@El Cid:
It’s funny, because I thought the central moral challenge of our time was the 50 year old woman the NYT interviewed, in their continuing effort to push the idea that people hate unions.
She’s making minimum wage.
Superluminar
Joe Beese @4
I think you are wrong in ascribing malevolence to both Obama or the more moderate members of the Republican Caucus here. The President does not support the irresponsible actions of public sector unions, and the moderate Republicans are very much on board with many of the positions Mr Obama holds, showing that in both cases there is interest in decent policy making.
gene108
@Joe Beese:
Because if Obama weighed in the fight would be between Gov. Walker taking on the big, much more powerful, Pres. Obama. Right-wing media would instantly turn into a David (Governor) versus Goliath (President) battle between local government and the Imperial Federal Government. It’ll gin up another round of Tea Party madness about how Obama is trying to destroy states rights, by attacking a governor and probably other noise.
Right now the focus is where it should be, between Gov. Walker and his excess, politically motivated, attack on the rights of Americans.
President Obama has publicly stated his support of the unions in Wisconsin and other states. I think he went to Madison, early on in the this whole show down, to show his support.
I don’t think he should do anymore publicly.
kay
@stuckinred:
Maybe. It’s inevitable, though, I think. No matter what happens, it’s all Obama and the villagers.
Next week or so, the national GOP will be pretending to shut down the federal government, and all eyes will return to Obama and the villagers :)
mistermix a.k.a. mastermix
Kay’s right. The dumbest political strategy I can imagine is to have Obama bigfoot what’s clearly a grassroots protest. He can express solidarity, which he has, but how else can he be *effective*? The national media has already shown itself to be infinitely distractable on this topic – imagine the circus Obama’s direct involvement would spark.
In addition, what needs to be fixed? Considering that this is a minority protest, it’s been pretty damn effective so far, and it’s been organized and led by local parties and unions.
Cacti
Really.
Who does he think he is? President of the United States?
Besides, it’s not as if he carried Wisconsin, Ohio and Indiana in the last Presidential election.
rikryah
for those union members who vote Republican, I’ve always thought you were idiots, but this is particularly to those in law enforcement..
I will keep on coming back to this..
the GOP cut off FUNDING FOR MEDICAL CARE FOR 9/11 RESPONDERS…
what the fuck don’t you think they will do to YOU.
Legalize
@El Cid:
I love how Bobo refers to the tough-love exchange as a “scene,” as if to unintentionally acknowledge that it’s all scripted fantasy.
jwb
@Superluminar: Quorum busting has a long, long history, and the quorum rule exists as it does for a reason. It’s one of basic tools of the minority. And, no, I was not one of those calling for abolishing the filibuster when the GOP was using it effectively during the last session.
kay
@Cacti:
We’re going to have to disagree on this. I think it would be a terrible mistake.
It’s bullshit that union voters are all Democrats, public employees or otherwise. Every governor but Walker is walking it back. Union members are winning.
The issue is collective bargaining. Obama’s entrance will only distract from that.
John Emerson
Feingold or Wellstone, sure.
Obama? Where have you been the last few years?
El Cid
@kay: Even poor Americans live better than the richest citizens of the 3rd world. Therefore they’re strong enough to fight communism even though they’re not yet productive enough here.
mistermix a.k.a. mastermix
@Legalize: I thought he was using the term the way the BDSM community uses it.
kay
@John Emerson:
Well, Feingold said it was a Wisconsin issue. He actually said Walker didn’t understand the state’s traditions.
And Durbin and Sherrod Brown have come out. I agree with that.
I just think you’re wrong on this.
COLUMBUS, Ohio – Police and fire unions upset over a bill in the Ohio Statehouse that would sharply restrict collective bargaining say they will make sure Republicans supporting the proposal pay at the ballot box next year and beyond.
While labor groups such as the Ohio AFL-CIO and the Ohio Education Association almost always support Democratic candidates and causes, public safety forces, especially at local levels, are as open to supporting Democrats as they are Republicans. Until now.
“I think what is going to end up happening is you are going to make a lot of conservative-leaning safety forces liberal-leaning. It is going to make a lot of Democrats out of Republicans,” said Cleveland police union president Stephen Loomis, who said 70 percent of the officers in his membership are conservatives.
“They are setting the framework for the Democrats to take back the House next year,” Loomis said.
kay
@John Emerson:
Union money goes to Democrats. Union voters don’t, necessarily. John Kasich knows that, which is why he’s running around professing his new-found love for teachers and insisting it’s “not my bill”.
Ash Can
@Superluminar: In this particular case, this is nonsense. The Wisconsin state Republicans were set to fast-track a bill with loads of features that would do nothing but rob from the poor and middle class of the state and give to wealthy political donors (many out-of-state), and they were speeding it through the state leg exactly because they didn’t want anyone to figure any of that out. The Dems saw the blatant attempt to bust the unions, saw that there was no way they could stop it by regular means, saw that this was not in any way, shape, or form something he campaigned on and was simply turning out to be a Manchurian Candidate for the national union-busters, and quickly saw this option as the only way to prevent active harm from befalling their state. Do you think they enjoy being away from all the comforts of home? There’s a reason state law allows for this kind of action in the first place, and that’s the fact it recognizes that extreme circumstances could crop up which call for equally extreme action like this. To accuse these senators of not doing a proper job under the circumstances is ludicrous.
kay
@John Emerson:
Making it Obama versus GOP governors would be a mistake. The Ohio Democrats in the legislature are united, and that’s what matters.
debbie
I wonder if Sullivan’s opinion of Daniels will change with this hard-line stance he’s taken.
I want to add this about Ohio: I got real worked up yesterday with all this talk of defecating in the Statehouse. When I didn’t hear any kind of follow-up from my local NPR station, I sent them an angry e-mail about what I had considered to be a disingenuous story:
” I’ve spent a good amount of time today trying to find out if this was true. From what I can tell, it’s based on just the say-so of a Republican legislator. Certainly not an objective source, is he/she?
I am so offended that this story aired and that it came from your organization, I don’t have the words to express more than only that I’m offended. I’ve looked to you and NPR for unbiased and fair-minded reporting, and you’ve shown yourselves to be no better than Matt Drudge or any other sensationalist.”
I got this back:
“This wasn’t just any Republican legislator who said this – it was the President of the Senate, among the most powerful elected officials in the Statehouse today. President Niehaus made these comments very late in the day, and there were at least a dozen reporters who heard what he said. This was very important in our continuing and complete coverage of why thousands of protestors were shut out of the Statehouse on Tuesday. When Jo attempted to verify the details, the agency that manages the Statehouse informed her that the manager wasn’t in and that it was being investigated. So she elected to use the comments of President Niehaus in her story. ”
As it turns out, the defecating took place in an area not in the Statehouse, they’ve had problems with this happening in the past, and they’re sure it’s homeless people doing this, not labor protesters.
I emailed Niehaus directly here: [email protected]. I don’t expect to hear back from him, but it might be fun to explode his in-box.
As I told another journalist (who said that journalists had to pick their battles) this morning:
“I understand your position, but this is just one more instance of Republicans being dishonest and being able to get away with it. It’s up to the media to question the validity of these kind of statements (and I mean for both parties, not just Republicans) and call it a lie when it is in fact a lie.
I’m all over Statehouse News right now about Niehaus’s statement in a report yesterday morning regarding defecation during the collective bargaining protests. (poor Karen Kasler!) It was nebulous at best and although Niehaus said there were “documented” instances, as it turns out, it didn’t even happen in the Statehouse, it had nothing to do with the protests, and they’ve had ongoing issues with this happening in that area. In fact, they believe it’s homeless people, not protesters, doing the defecation.
It took more than 24 hours for the truth to come out. That’s 24 hours for the implication that labor supporters are animals to linger and for disparaging lies to once again parade as truth. If you remember how much not responding immediately to the Swift Boaters cost John Kerry, then you will understand why I am not only frustrated, I am pissed off.
I’m not criticizing you or anyone else in the media, but if the reporter could at least have included a line about the “documentation” being unverified, I’d not have been so angry. As it is, the Republicans get to get away with outrageous dishonest lies once again.””
I feel like I’m on a rampage.
John Emerson
I can’t think of Obama’s reticence as being due to respect for the grass roots or for Wisconsin’s traditions. It looks a lot more like either his neoliberlaism or else his customary timidity. Not good either way.
John Emerson
As I understand, Sullivan is hardcore anti-union.
kay
@debbie:
We’re doing great. SB 5 is having trouble getting out of committee, let alone to a floor vote. Kasich is backing away from it, and they preemptively agreed to amend it.
They’re in trouble.
debbie
Oh, the other thing that pissed me off was a Republican legislator claiming that 600,000 jobs had been lost in Ohio. This is different from the 400,000 they’d claimed during the campaign against Strickland. Does this mean 200,000 jobs have been lost in the 3 months since Kasich’s election (which would make him a failure, no?), or was the guy a blatant liar. Again, there was no follow-up challenging his assertion.
Merkin
@Joe Beese:
No, we can’t, because then it becomes about him and not the protesters.
Honestly, I think you’re just looking for someone to pin the inevitable loss on. You have to know it would have little effect, perhaps even a negative effect.
debbie
Kay, I hope you’re right, but Ohio has such a tradition of screwing the real, little guy that I have little hope at the moment.
What’s to stop the Ohio Senate from pulling the same trick as Wisconsin’s Senate?
kay
@debbie:
Because there aren’t enough Democrats to deny republicans a quorum. But if they’re having difficulty getting it out of committee, and they are, they’re in trouble.
Yesterday they were saying “this process is incredibly FLUID” :)
debbie
So we’re back to the defecating thing? ;)
jsfox
I agree Obama shouldn’t be overly involved it isn’t about him and it surely would become about him. However the DNC is already involved through OFA who are on the ground in WI, OH, IN helping to organize the protests.
kay
@debbie:
It’s interesting, because GOP legislators went to police unions to try to cut a deal. But the police union demands include protections for the other state workers.
The police proposal is five paragraphs of “delete language…”
Joey Maloney
@Superluminar:
If you’re referring to , e.g., the Wisconsin Democratic state senators, they’re not ignoring their duties. They are carrying out their duty by using all available legal strategies to prevent the passage of a law that will damage their state and their constituents.
Napoleon
@kay:
BTW, Grendell is very hard right. Before he was elected he ended up on the other ends of deals with me, so I became familiar with him (and grew not to like him) and on several occasions he made comments or said things in my presence which made it crystal clear he has, at a minimum, deep sympathies with the Constitution in Exile crowd that think things like zoning is unconstitutional. There is no doubt in my mind he will stick the knife in the back of labor the second he could get away with it.
kay
@debbie:
I just think that’s such weasel language. A week ago they were “standing firm”. Now they’re FLUID.
The Ohio situation is so different from Wisconsin, including the fact that it’s stand-alone legislation in Ohio, rather than a budgetary measure. In that sense, Ohio’s is easier to beat.
I don’t know how they beat it in Wisconsin, but I think it’s great they’re trying.
NonyNony
@kay:
One thing to keep in mind about Ohio – which kay well knows – is that the public unions here have never been terribly anti-Republican. The teachers unions were anti-Kasich, but that’s because he went on the offensive against them during his campaign and made them into the enemy. In general Republicans like to have those police unions behind them when they go to the ballot box.
Our public sector guys have always felt very comfortable voting for Republicans because, well, they never figured Republicans would come after them. Then Kasich comes along and thinks he’s Emperor of Ohio instead of just governor and now he and the dumb-asses in the assembly have people who normally vote Republican on social issues scared for their jobs. And remember – they have absolute control over the legislature and the governor’s mansion in this state – every single fucking thing that happens over the next two years is entirely owned by the Republicans.
I’m just surprised that they made such a tone-deaf move in Ohio – they apparently didn’t even consider trying to buy off the police union like Walker tried in Wisconsin. Just amazing – like they don’t care what happens in 2 years so long as they get their way now (probably because of the fucking term limits in this state – I used to be an advocate for them but they are the worst possible thing you can do to a democracy – now we have a legislature full of people who don’t care if they can win the next election or not because they’re term limited anyway. Stupid way to run a democracy.)
kay
@NonyNony:
True. We have a big local ODOT depot. They’re all Teabaggers.
Maybe not anymore….
Leah
@jonst: This is also addressed to Joe Beese:
I don’t think Kay is trying to protect Obama from criticism, or saying its okay for him to turn his back on the mix of important liberal/progressive issues at stake in Wisconsin.
Ed Schultz wants Obama to go to Madison. I’m with Kay; I don’t want Obama to do that, because what the left needs is what they haven’t had for years – an independent progressive grass-roots social movement, one that is prepared to challenge and push Obama and the Democrats and the Overton Window to the left.
That’s what FDR had, what Truman had, even what Eisenhower had, though he might have wished it away, it still influenced him. Kennedy had it too, and LBJ. It started to die in the seventies, its final remnants got killed off in the eighties, and God knows Clinton didn’t have it, and except for noteworthy but limited instances, like the run-up to the Iraq invasion, the left seems to have forgotten how to organize. (Note that when the occupation happened, our side, the demonstrators against the war, went home, without taking names or using what had happened to set up any kind of grassroots structures. Our major achievement has been the left blogisphere, and its an important asset. But until now, other than electoral politics, it hasn’t been able to organize around issues, to put feet on the ground and ideas into the mix of the national conversation.
Look at the the way the left has limited its conception of its own role during the first two years of Obama’s administration. In comment thread after comment thread, when it comes to action, the argument is generally a rehash of the 2008 splits on the left, which comes down to whether or not to primary Obama for 2012.
How is it possible that with the vibrancy of the left blogisphere, it didn’t lead to any kind of organized, grassroots, on-the-ground response to the Tea Party movement. Our total absence made it that much easier for the always lazy SCLM to accept and then push the notion that the Tea Party represented a potent and large slice of American popular opinion, instead of what its real strength was, taking over the Republican party and pushing it further left. Obama and the Democrats have a lot to answer for when it comes to that disaster of a mid-term election last November. But where was the push-back from our side?
This isn’t about protecting Obama from criticism, it’s about recreating a left-leaning social movement that he can’t ignore. That’s what we had in the sixties, and being older than most of you, (I’m not even a baby boomer; I was a war baby, that would be the 2nd WW), I know this from personal experience.
What is happening in Madison, and the way it has spread to other states isn’t yet a real movement, or perhaps it is a movement in its infancy, but it’s the most hopeful development I’ve seen on the left for a long time. We have to change the terms of the conversation, and that includes Obama’s conversation, from spending and debt to economic growth and jobs. There’s already a perceivable change in the tone of many Democrats in congress – Schumer talking about Republican policies pushing us into a double-dip recession. There is so much more work to do, and none of it is about arguing about just how real a liberal/progressive Obama is.
Kay, thank-you for your posts. My own sense is that the next step both at the local level and at the level of what national discussion this grassroots activity stimulates is to link the support for unions, public and private, to the issue of unemployment and jobs. Where are the jobs, Gov Christie, Walker, Kasich, Daniels, and what are your plans to create jobs, and when they insist that’s what their tax cuts are all about, we have the opportunity to point out, again and again, the GOP answer, nationally and at the state and local level, to the mess we’re in is to repeat exactly the same Bush policies that got us into the mess – deregulation, privatizing, tax cuts for the rich and the corporate, and tax increases and gutting of the safety net for everyone else.
Napoleon
@Napoleon:
PS, he was my state rep and now is my state sen.
mkesisu
Kay,
I agree with you wholeheartedly: President Obama should not come to WI.
It would simply be a distraction from what should be the real focus–Walker’s (& the Republican Party’s) attack on the working and middle class. And our refusal to back down.
This is, as we all know by now, *not* about the budget. This is about scapegoating public employees, destroying unions (both public & private), decimating funding sources for Democrats, silencing the voice of the people, and enacting far-reaching policies based on right-wing ideologies that have one aim: increase and make permanent the wealth inequality gap that separates the wealthy from the rest of us–the working and middle classes.
Koch executives say they will not “back off.”
Fine, I say. Game on.
Because we. will. not. back. down.
Join us.
SFAW
That will only last as long as Walker doesn’t get what he wants. If he ends up winning, they’ll flock back to his side.
“Winning” doesn’t matter, “won” is what will count. Try to wait until it changes to past tense before celebrating.
And, apropos of nothing in particular: can you (plural) please STOP using the word “conservative” to refer to people like Walker, Daniels, and the rest of those schmucks? There is, for all practical purposes, no longer any meaning to that word, in a political sense. They are radical right-wingers, and should be called that and treated that way. It may take 10 years for the non-left public to start believing it, but the mindset has to be changed.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Joe Beese:
Manic progressive ready to faint! Get the couch!
Yeah, that’s what Wisconsin and the unions need. Obama jumping right in the middle of this and sucking all of the air out of the room, leaving the unions high and dry when the press ignores them and their issues and make this all about Obama.
You exist only to slag Obama and that’s it. Ok, you also exist to be a fucking asshole.
A pretty good one too, I’ll give you that much.
Mix it up a bit Joey! You’re a one hit wonder since you only know one tune, and it’s become pretty boring hearing the exact same shit out of you every time you flap your lips.
Napoleon
@SFAW:
Conservatives are in the Dem. party (at least as to office holders). The vast majority of Rep officeholders are reactionaries.
kay
@Leah:
Posting here is a lot of fun. I get passionate on this precisely because it’s local.
I think unions have to make the connection between the lady in the article at the top of page, who is wondering why she’s 50 years old and making minimum wage, and unions.
We’re going against 30 years of union demonization by the Right, and (as far as I’m concerned) media have chosen a side, and it’s not ours.
That’s difficult. It’s going to take more than 2 weeks of protests in Wisconsin.
leo
“[A]lthough conservatives like to call Obama a Chicago Democrat…”
Actually that’s pretty much what everyone would call a Democrat from Chicago.
Huckster
@Leah: Yes! More like this please
SFAW
Yes, because “low information” voters are always so quick to grasp political and economic realities. [Note: I am differentiating between “actual” reality and “right-wing-created pretend” reality (e.g. Obama’s a Mooslim from Kenya).]
debbie
@ NonyNony:
I am also surprised at the tone-deafness. It’s as if the Republicans have stopped thinking long-term or strategically. It’s all right here, right now. Slash and burn, and to hell with tomorrow.
So much for Rove’s permanent majority or Goldman Sach’s long-term greedy. This is an entirely new kind of Republican — one that has lost it’s collective mind.
SFAW
Napoleon @ 51
Agreed, thanks. I should have been more precise.
jwb
@kay: Kay, I know you live in a fairly conservative area. What’s your sense as to how all of this stuff is playing among the locals?
John Emerson
There’s a lot of middle between Obama keeping hands off and Obama jumping in with both feet and taking things over. Has he tipped his hand at all? I’m asking seriously. I haven’t seen any sign of it, but maybe I missed something.
SFAW
Leah –
Although I understand your sentiments, I think the “no pushback from the left” may have something to do with:
1) Fatigue: after railing against the eight-year Bush-led effort to destroy America (as most of us “remember” America, or at least idealize it), there may not be a ton of gas left in the tank (or some other semi-colorful phrase)
2) Disappointment/distress: after helping (or so we like to believe) Obama get elected, we thought there’d be less hippie-punching than has been the case. [Look, few of us thought Obama was going to magically turn into Russ Feingold or Dennis Kucinich, but having him (apparently) turn rightward was not helpful.]
2A) Some commenter – here? TPM? I don’t remember – said that Rethugs feed their base, Dems starve theirs. OK, it’s not 100% true, but it’s not as wrong as we’d like it to be.
3) It’s not clear that left-side bloggers have as much power to move the masses as you seem to believe. Was it bloggers or OFA that did the ground work? I don’t know the answer, but I’d tend to think that a semi-unified group with a clear mission and plan will have more effect than a bunch of bloggers.
I keep hoping that someone, somewhere, will rise up to counter the lies and insanity or Ailes & company, but I’m less than sanguine about that possibility. And, no, I’m not doing anything about it, yet.
Emma
John He was asked and made a statement of support. That’s as much as is needed. Every time he gets asked, he should say the same thing. What he knows and we tend to forget is that if he does anything more, the press will be all over him and it will become “the socialist Kenyan” versus the “American midwest.”
RSR
The rally for labor in Philadelphia yesterday was a mix of both public and private sector union members. Numerous chants of “We are one!” rang out throughout the event.
slag
I’m really glad you’re posting more, Kay! I hope you keep it up.
Also, I get the sense that people think this event will make unions and Democrats stronger, in the long term. Given how prone the left generally is to internecine warfare, I’m extremely skeptical of that notion. And I’m not convinced the public-private union pac that was formed recently is enough of a long-term solidarity measure. Do you know of any other institutions being formed now that will also help maintain this coalition?
Davis X. Machina
Obama goes to Wisconsin, stands onthe State House steps whatever, the unions lose.
He’s toxic. We can argue all day why he’s toxic — because he’s a closet Republican, because he’s an out Socialist, whatever. It doesn’t matter.
He’s toxic. There are right now in effect three political parties, and two of them think the single biggest obstacle to fixing the country is The Guy in the White House. One of those parties is large, and on the right. The other is small, on the left, and well-represented in the comments on this thread.
What does someone with the support of only one party out of three, albeit the second-largest, bring to this situation? What support the strikers don’t already have does he generate?
To what problem is his going all-in on this the answer?</i?
Zip.
He's a lightning rod. Let him stay in DC & fight with Congress.
agrippa
Obama is toxic. Basically, he was from the very start. There is little good that he can do in this matter. And, getting involved would move ownership of the problem from the WI governor to the WH. Obama will have to wait; if the moment comes, he will have to seize it.
A lot depends upon whether any of this starts to build. If it builds and grows and spreads, something useful may be done. This is not a ‘burning issue’, yet.
Davis X. Machina
Obama goes to Wisconsin, stands onthe State House steps whatever, the unions lose.
He’s toxic. We can argue all day why he’s toxic — because he’s a closet Republican, because he’s an out Socia1ist, whatever. It doesn’t matter.
He’s toxic. There are right now in effect three political parties, and two of them think the single biggest obstacle to fixing the country is The Guy in the White House. One of those parties is large, and on the right. The other is small, on the left, and well-represented in the comments on this thread.
What does someone with the support of only one party out of three, albeit the second-largest, bring to this situation? What support the strikers don’t already have does he generate?
To what problem is his going all-in on this the answer?</i?
Zip.
He's a lightning rod. Let him stay in DC & fight with Congress.
vheidi
@A Commenter at Balloon Juice (formerlyThe Grand Panjandrum): This. I thnk this might be the end of the Reagan Democrats.
RP
@John Emerson: Hasn’t he already expressed support? And I think kay’s point is that there isn’t a lot of middle ground for Obama on this. If he gets more involved the right and the media will treat him as if he’s jumped in with both feet and make this all about him, regardless of what he actually says or does.
Davis X. Machina
When the people lead, the leaders will follow.
Marc McKenzie
@gene108: Good point, Gene.
Obama is the President, not the King. Sure, it would look cool for him to step in, but…you know, events over the past few decades have shown than when a President steps into the middle of something like the this, the results are usually not for the best.
Screaming that Obama should step in physically into this event is the same as asking him to intervene in Libya, at least in my view. Easy to say and scream, but it could (and probably will) boomerang back and end up helping the wrong folks.
John Emerson
@RP I was asking. I don’t remember it, but maybe I missed something.
kindness
Sorry Kay, I don’t agree with you.
President Obama owns the bully pulpit and as such I sorely appreciate his standing up for progressive causes and ideals.
Fox & the MSM are going to shred him and progressives anyhow and your response is to not aggravate them???
My response is for everyone on our side, including the President to show what corrupt hypocrites the other side is and to not be bashful or ashamed of our values and principles.
kindness
@Davis X. Machina: No. President Obama is not toxic. he’s only toxic to the Teabaggers.
Are you a Teabagger?
BTD
Appeals to authority are not persuasive to me:
I actually agree with you, but not because a “Great Lakes elected Democrat” says so.
The PResident is no longer a “great LAkes elected Democrat” in this discussion. He is the head of the Democratic Party. As such, a more visible intervention by him will make it more Dems v. GOP than a fight for Labor.
The reason for the PResident to stay out is, and I think this underlies your point, it then becomes about Obama than fighting for labor.
I am somoe one who believes the President should have gotten more visibly involved in fights with conservatives, but the ones in Washington over taxes and the budget, not Ohio, Indiana and Ohio over local labor issues.
Davis X. Machina
Self-delete for an s-bomb — damn you Karl Kautsky!
Davis X. Machina
Go over to DemocraticUnderground — note the first word — and tell me he’s not toxic. The big-l Left hate him, the right hates him, and bringing him in is supposed to be an asset?
What is left behind after he leaves, if he goes? A stronger movement? More working people with experience of organizing and attending such events?
If you can’t guarantee the answer is ‘yes’, then Obama’s got no business going.
I’m a card-carrying Democratic Socia1ist since DSOC days. The survival of the working class, and its expression in the union movement, is far more important than any individual, even a President. Whoring after panaceas and messiahs got us into this mess. Gestural politics isn’t going to get us out.
Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)
@debbie: Thank you for taking on that point.
Master of Karate and Friendship
You know who else will move on to that? People with actual power, like President Obama. For instance:
“President Obama’s proposed 2012 budget will cut several billion dollars from the government’s energy assistance fund for poor people, officials briefed on the subject told National Journal.”
http://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/exclusive-obama-to-cut-energy-assistance-for-the-poor-20110209
Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)
@kay: I envy WI their recall ability. And I’m enjoying watching gov. Napoleon Heartland run from this bill. Wonder what he’s telling Gov.
WankerWalker on their daily calls, since Scott says “John’s gotta stand firm” to NotKoch in the phone call heard round the world? If there were not so very much at stake, this would be comical.All of this is by way of saying, I agree with you. And how nice that our ODP sent out a thank you email. It can’t be overstated how meaningful that can be:
The GOP is nervous here, and they should be. The overreach will cost them, even in the blazing red corner of the state where I am.
Master of Karate and Friendship
You people who say “Obama can’t do this or that because the media would criticize him” crack me up. Oooh, let’s cower in the corner because the big, scary media is coming! And it’s touching that you think Obama often wants to do the right thing but can’t because of some outside force.
Master of Karate and Friendship
@kindness:
“No. President Obama is not toxic. he’s only toxic to the Teabaggers.”
You saw the mid-term elections, right? Those are a referendum on the president in his first term.
Master of Karate and Friendship
Anyway, Obama knows that if he went there it would be bad, so he would never pledge to–
http://www.correntewire.com/shoes_barack#more
kindness
@Master of Karate and Friendship: That wasn’t a referendum on Obama. That was a referendum on continued economic distress.
So, I’ll amend my statement. President Obama is only toxic to Teabaggers and FDLers (which I do read from time to time).
Are you are firedoggie or a Teabagger?
ruemara
@Master of Karate and Friendship:
You do understand that the “cut” is a return to ’08 funding levels because the price of heating oil has also dropped. Would it be easier if it was called “linked funding to now reduced oil and gas prices”? There’s also been an expansion to programs that are about weatherization and energy efficiency. You see, I work with these agencies a lot. But, do keep up the meme that Obama hates the poor.
Back to topic.
I’ve been rather against Obama showing up at any of these protests. There’s been a tenuous bond building here, between union workers and citizens from various parties. More than half the problem is that Republicans on the ground just never believe that Republicans in charge will fuck with them. Never. No matter how often they do. This is the first time it’s been public, hard and brutal and they don’t like it. We need to keep the movement non-political and wholly class based, while showcasing the local Dems fighting for the worker. This is the sort of ground swell we need, not an Obama™ pitstop. People have got to get away from the unitary executive thing and start feeling their power as a class movement. I like the guy, but as long as he says attack on workers rights, and keeps out of our way, I feel is more beneficial to the life of the movement.
Mike Kay (Peacemaker)
Thank you, Kay.
Raven Basslady
I’m just wondering–
Did people miss this? Why are people saying that Obama hasn’t done anything? I don’t get it.
http://www.newser.com/story/112364/obama-enters-wisconsin-fray-backs-unions.html
Obama Enters Wisconsin Fray, Backs Unions
CALLS BARGAINING LIMITS AN ‘ASSAULT’ ON UNIONS
By Matt Cantor, Newser Staff
(NEWSER) – President Obama has entered the fray in Wisconsin, slamming what he calls Gov. Scott Walker’s “assault” on unions—and that’s not all. Obama’s political operation, Organizing for America, has teamed up with union organizers to help build the thousands-strong protest in Madison and assemble demonstrations at other state capitals—including Columbus, Ohio, which saw thousands protesting an anti-union measure yesterday. The Washington Post reports that the political group made calls, sent emails, and posted messages on Twitter and Facebook in an attempt to bulk up the crowds at rallies.
“I think everybody’s got to make some adjustments, but I think it’s also important to recognize that public employees make enormous contributions to our states and our citizens,” Obama said in a sit-down interview with a local Milwaukee TV station. But House Speaker John Boehner criticized Obama’s involvement. “This is not the way you begin an ‘adult conversation’ in America about solutions to the fiscal challenges that are destroying jobs in our country,” he said. Some activists predict protests will also pop up in New Jersey, Missouri, and Pennsylvania. (Click for more on the Wisconsin Democrats who went AWOL yesterday.)
Merkin
@kindness:
then he doesn’t have a bully pulpit.
Comrade Kevin
@Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q):
The “recall ability” gave California 6 years of the Governator.
Suck It Up!
I can’t stand DU but someone showed me this link and it is so funny.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433×618423
SFAW
Or it would be, if the link didn’t kick back an error message.
colby
Also- and I say this as a fan- hasn’t Obama proven himself spectacularly BAD at politicking on statewide issues? He couldn’t clear a primary for Specter, his handling of Patterson was a god awful mess, his handling of the AZ immigration bill basically took AZ off the table in 2012. Seems like every time he mixes it up in a state issue, it blows up in his face.