• Menu
  • Skip to primary navigation
  • Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Before Header

  • About Us
  • Lexicon
  • Contact Us
  • Our Store
  • ↑
  • ↓
  • ←
  • →

Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Their boy Ron is an empty plastic cup that will never know pudding.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

We’re not going back!

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

This country desperately needs a functioning Fourth Estate.

Donald Trump, welcome to your everything, everywhere, all at once.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

…and a burning sense of injustice to juice the soul.

We are aware of all internet traditions.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Bogus polls are all they’ve got left. Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls a year from now.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

When we show up, we win.

Schmidt just says fuck it, opens a tea shop.

Mobile Menu

  • Four Directions Montana
  • Donate with Venmo, Zelle & PayPal
  • Site Feedback
  • War in Ukraine
  • Submit Photos to On the Road
  • Politics
  • On The Road
  • Open Threads
  • Topics
  • COVID-19 Coronavirus
  • Authors
  • About Us
  • Contact Us
  • Lexicon
  • Our Store
  • Politics
  • Open Threads
  • 2024 Elections
  • Garden Chats
  • On The Road
  • Targeted Fundraising!
You are here: Home / Politics / Politicans / David Brooks Giving A Seminar At The Aspen Institute / You tell me that it’s evolution

You tell me that it’s evolution

by DougJ|  March 3, 20111:14 pm| 102 Comments

This post is in: David Brooks Giving A Seminar At The Aspen Institute

FacebookTweetEmail

Via commenter Mike Kay…

Sarah Palin is all for teaching evolution as an accepted principle:

Ron Paul doesn’t accept evolution as a theory.

FacebookTweetEmail
Previous Post: « Interesting Age Split
Next Post: You Say Iron Curtain, I Say Economic Freedom »

Reader Interactions

102Comments

  1. 1.

    jk

    March 3, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    OT

    US News and World Report hands Fox News and Rush Limbaugh a story that they will exploit from now until election day

    Obama Says Race a Key Component in Tea Party Protests
    http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/03/02/obama-says-race-a-key-component-in-tea-party-protests

  2. 2.

    Comrade Mary

    March 3, 2011 at 1:22 pm

    I can’t listen to Palin. I just can’t. Can someone summarize what she says?

  3. 3.

    joe from Lowell

    March 3, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    @Comrade Mary: Evolution should be taught as an accepted scientific principle in school. I see the hand of God in Creation, but that’s not science. My father was a science teacher, and science class should teach science.

  4. 4.

    The Ancient Randonneur (formerly known as The Grand Panjandrum)

    March 3, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    @Comrade Mary: Hell just froze over because she said something I agree with: Evolution should be accepted as a scientific principle and taught in high school. She says science should be taught in science class.

  5. 5.

    Comrade Mary

    March 3, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    Thanks, Joe [and TARFKATGP]. Well, I have to give her points for that.

  6. 6.

    Cat Lady

    March 3, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    That tricky Katie Couric and her lamestream media gotcha questions. That must have been before all the goopers went full metal retard the day after the election.

  7. 7.

    GregB

    March 3, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    How can Palin see the hand? I thought it was invisible?

  8. 8.

    The Moar You Know

    March 3, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    US News and World Report hands Fox News and Rush Limbaugh a story that they will exploit from now until election day
    __
    Obama Says Race a Key Component in Tea Party Protests

    @jk: I hope they try. The Teabagger movement is about nothing else but the unforgivable offense of a black man occupying the White House, and there is no sane person that would even try to deny that.

  9. 9.

    Pococurante

    March 3, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    @GregB: She has supervision. That’s also how she sees Russia from her front porch.

  10. 10.

    KG

    March 3, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    @GregB: wrong hand

  11. 11.

    Less Popular Tim

    March 3, 2011 at 1:35 pm

    @The Ancient Randonneur (formerly known as The Grand Panjandrum):

    Holy crap. She sounded almost…reasonable. I don’t remember seeing her talk without thinking how cringe-inducingly stupid she sounded.

    I’m an atheist, but if I had political aspirations that’s pretty much the exact answer I’d have to give…

  12. 12.

    Phil65

    March 3, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    @Comrade Mary: Well, I have to give her points for that.

    Hold on a second. Did she say it recently? If so, we have to give her time to backpeddle.

  13. 13.

    freelancer

    March 3, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    OT –

    And I’m proud to be an American
    Where at least I know I’m free,
    And I won’t forget the men (the Christian ones, that is)
    who died,
    who gave that right to me,
    And I proudly stand up next to you
    (Wait, you’re not a Muslim are you?!)
    And defend ‘er still today,
    Cause there ain’t no doubt, I love this land
    God (Hear that, Sharia pigs? God! Not Allah!) Bless the USA!

    Vomit.

  14. 14.

    SRW1

    March 3, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    @joe from Lowell:

    I wonder whether in Sarah’s mind that answer still stands. The rightspeak window among conservatives has evolved (pun intended)a bit over the last two years.

  15. 15.

    S. cerevisiae

    March 3, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    And yet she doesn’t accept climate change even as the permafrost in her home state melts and villages are sliding into the sea. She should have paid more attention to dad.

  16. 16.

    WoodyNYC

    March 3, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    I was curious to see if the Ron Paul clip indicated that he really didn’t accept the truth of evolution, but it’s obvious that he is attempting to hedge: ” it’s a … it’s a theory”. But he ends up saying he doesn’t believe in it. Lying and pandering as usual.

  17. 17.

    Ash Can

    March 3, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    @joe from Lowell:
    @The Ancient Randonneur (formerly known as The Grand Panjandrum):

    Holy freakin’…I mean, that’s…intelligent. And sensible. And correct.

    Break out the boots and snowblower, Satan, you’re getting hit with the big one.

  18. 18.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 3, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    @freelancer: I know I’m not supposed to but I always put my hand over my heart when I hear that song.

  19. 19.

    The Moar You Know

    March 3, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Ron Paul is a master of situational ethics. People often say that Klondike Barbie is a master grifter, and her fans mindless automatons, but she’s got nothing on Paul and his flying army of howler monkeys that sing his dubious praises to the skies anytime His Holy Name is mentioned.

  20. 20.

    Rosalita

    March 3, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    @Comrade Mary:

    I can’t listen to Palin. I just can’t. Can someone summarize what she says?

    Me neither… and the bumpit hair and hooker makeup make her difficult to look at also too.

  21. 21.

    Corner Stone

    March 3, 2011 at 1:52 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I know I’m not supposed to but I always put my hand over my heart when I hear that song.

    I always pop a stiffie.
    Which is usually a problem since it’s mainly played at High School sporting events in TX.

  22. 22.

    CoffeeTim

    March 3, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Just out of curiosity, does anyone here think Sarah or Ron could accurately describe the difference between a hypothesis and a theory in science? It often seems to me that they and the folks they are appealing to think they are indeed the same thing.

  23. 23.

    JPL

    March 3, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    @jk: The article is written today but references events that happened months or years ago. This paragraph has no quotes…

    But Obama, in his most candid moments, acknowledged that race was still a problem. In May 2010, he told guests at a private White House dinner that race was probably a key component in the rising opposition to his presidency from conservatives, especially right-wing activists in the anti-incumbent “Tea Party” movement that was then surging across the country.

    Can’t believe that someone from USNews would write such a sloppy article…I’m shocked..lol

  24. 24.

    stuckinred

    March 3, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    @freelancer: This from a fucker that never put on a uniform but is going to “defend her STILL today”.

  25. 25.

    licensed to kill time

    March 3, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    Sarah Palin said something vaguely reasonable? Well, hoop-diddly-dee, by golly gum, gee williker schnitzel, color me polka dot.

    I care not one single centavo for her opinion, but maybe it’ll cause some ‘bagger heads to go ‘splody. That would be entertaining.

  26. 26.

    Morbo

    March 3, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Your CPAC straw poll winner, ladies and gentlemen!

  27. 27.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 3, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    @jk: IANAL, but I believe the truth of the assertion is an airtight defense against libel.

  28. 28.

    Dave

    March 3, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Does Palin realize that one moment of clarity could cause her trouble in the primaries if she runs? It’s like Mittens and his mandate problem.

  29. 29.

    Redshift

    March 3, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    @CoffeeTim: Ron, maybe, Sarah, of course not. People much smarter than they in the “manufacturing doubt” industry came up with the idea of “hey, scientists use the word ‘theory’ to describe established fact, but regular people use it to mean something unproven — we can run a whole line of BS based on that!”

  30. 30.

    Cris

    March 3, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    @Phil65: Hold on a second. Did she say it recently?

    The YouTube video is from Katie Courik’s interview with her, during the 2008 campaign.

  31. 31.

    Redshift

    March 3, 2011 at 2:03 pm

    @JPL: I remember when that actually happened. It created a small uproar then, which was drowned out by the ongoing overall screaming of the teabaggers. Pretty lame to try to re-create a controversy in a quieter moment, but it’s not like they haven’t done that before.

  32. 32.

    Cris

    March 3, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    @stuckinred: This from a fucker that never put on a uniform but is going to “defend her STILL today”.

    Hey, defense comes in many forms. Like blogging. Especially blogging.

  33. 33.

    freelancer

    March 3, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    @stuckinred:

    David Cross ripped him a new one right after the Iraq Invasion.

    “And I’d surely STAND UP!”
    “Oh? Well, here’s your second chance, asshole. Here’s an M-16 and a helmet. Get the fuck over there already.”
    “And I’d surely Stand UP! (Well, not me, my neighbor’s kid, he needs the college money).”

  34. 34.

    Redshift

    March 3, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    OT: VA TPers (along with their corporate masters) are trying to get the governor to veto a mandate that insurance cover autism treatment, passed with a significant bipartisan majority, because they’ve been conditioned to hate anything called a “mandate.”

    But remember, conservatives sincerely believe a federal mandate is unconstitutional, and that’s why they oppose health care reform. /Villager

    Bonus quote from the so-called small business lobbyist:

    Nicole Riley, the acting state director of the National Federation of Independent Business, said the group isn’t singling out students and families dealing with autism but simply voicing “longstanding opposition to mandated health benefits of any kind.”

    Translation: “Get it right — don’t paint us as heartless bastards who want to screw kids with autism; we’re heartless bastards who want to screw everybody!”

    Special.

  35. 35.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    March 3, 2011 at 2:10 pm

    @Corner Stone: For the longest time here in Texas you could tell when the fireworks were going to end when that song started.

  36. 36.

    Redshift

    March 3, 2011 at 2:13 pm

    @freelancer: Way back at the Salt Lake Olympics, we were unlucky enough to be on a train with a group of drunk Muricans who decided to show all those furriners how great we were by singing patriotic songs (including that one.)

    They went from one to the next pretty quickly, because, to the amusement of everyone present, they didn’t actually know more than the first couple of lines of any of them.

  37. 37.

    cleek

    March 3, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    she may have believed it then. but as of 2009, she didn’t.

  38. 38.

    ThatLeftTurnInABQ

    March 3, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    @Redshift:

    Nicole Riley, the acting state director of the National Federation of Independent Business, said the group isn’t singling out students and families dealing with autism but simply voicing “longstanding opposition to mandated health benefits of any kind.”

    It is amazing sometimes, how changing just one brushstroke makes the portrait seem so much more true to life. Notice how the eyes now follow you as you move about the room.

  39. 39.

    madmatt

    March 3, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    Trust me Ron, anybody who has met your son has had second thoughts on evolution.

  40. 40.

    Breezeblock

    March 3, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Ah, this is better…

    I’m proud
    to be a young American
    I’m proud, just think about it
    All the far out things that we’ve begun
    There’s revolution, constitution, land, sea, and air pollution,
    cold wars, hot wars, gas wars, and confrontations,
    constipation, consternation, open hearted palpitations
    Muscular Dystrophy

    I’m proud to be an American
    Because we got department stores
    full of cheap guitars
    But when Sputnik plays ’em, you just go go go go

  41. 41.

    suzanne

    March 3, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    Just out of curiosity, does anyone here think Sarah or Ron could accurately describe the difference between a hypothesis and a theory in science?

    Nope.

  42. 42.

    Svensker

    March 3, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    @freelancer:

    Well, not me, my neighbor’s kid, he needs the college money).

    One of my friend’s kids just enlisted because they don’t have the money for him to go to college any other way. She’s hoping he won’t have to die for that decision.

    Probably if there were more tax cuts for the rich this wouldn’t have had to happen.

  43. 43.

    Paul in KY

    March 3, 2011 at 2:29 pm

    One of my senators (the other being Mitch the Bitch) makes Sarah! seem intelligent & thoughtful. I’ll be drinking tonight.

    Not that I need much of a reason, but Jeebus Christ we elected this maroon here in KY!

    Edit: Just figured out that was Paul the Senior. I’m still fucked because we have Junior.

  44. 44.

    jk

    March 3, 2011 at 2:30 pm

    @JPL: @Davis X. Machina:

    I thought US News and World Report had gone out of business. This article amounts to pouring gasoline on a fire. I agree with Obama’s statements cited in the article, but I don’t see anything good coming out of Ken Walsh reporting this anecdote.

  45. 45.

    JPL

    March 3, 2011 at 2:31 pm

    Sarah’s theories have evolved over time. Her statement was so 2008.

  46. 46.

    Bubblegum Tate

    March 3, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    If Palin hasn’t already walked back her comments, I’m quite sure she will.

  47. 47.

    suzanne

    March 3, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    @Redshift:

    They went from one to the next pretty quickly, because, to the amusement of everyone present, they didn’t actually know more than the first couple of lines of any of them.

    Heh. I remember having a conversation with my mother a few years ago in which she was shocked to learn that I don’t say the Pledge of Allegiance and hadn’t done so for many years. She asked me why, and I said that I didn’t believe in pledging allegiance to any material object, much less a piece of cloth. She replied, “What are you talking about? When you say the Pledge, you don’t pledge allegiance to the actual flag… Oh. Wait. Okay, I see your point. Wow. Now that I’m actually thinking about the words, that’s kind of fucked.”

  48. 48.

    David Koch

    March 3, 2011 at 2:35 pm

    That Sarah Palin is a piece of ass.

  49. 49.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 3, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    @jk: USNRW is a non-player, and there are no persuadeables on this topic anyways.

    It’s a Kinsley gaffe.

  50. 50.

    jk

    March 3, 2011 at 2:39 pm

    Sarah Palin is all for teaching evolution as an accepted principle

    Even a broken clock is correct twice a day. Palin is a coward and a quitter who doesn’t have the guts to run for President. She left her job as governor with her tail between her legs because she couldn’t handle a few ethics complaints.

  51. 51.

    David Hunt

    March 3, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    I don’t understand why everyone is so shocked about Sarah Palin saying something like that. Note she didn’t say she believed it. She said that it should be taught in Science Class…for public schools. The Deltas and Epsilons get this stuff that makes it easier for them to accept the Social Darwinism line that’s being fed to them by all the Alphas who went to private school where they’re taught the truth that they’re on top because God loves them more…and has since the days they were riding dinosaurs.

  52. 52.

    GregB

    March 3, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    Dame Drudge is also pouring gasoline on the fire. He is frontpaging and highlighting every crime that involves and African-American.

    He is grossly fanning the flames of race-hatred jsut as he did when he ran the bogus backwards B face-carving story in the primary.

    With Limbaugh chiming in with his union workers are cockroaches meme, I say we are getting close to Radio Hutu territory.

  53. 53.

    Redshirt

    March 3, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    @SRW1: It would be fascinating to see the exact same question poised to Sister Sarah today. I’d bet money she’d completely contradict herself from 2008, but we’d have to test it to be sure.

    I’m sure this topic will come up in the Circus of 2012, and it is a very useful barometer for the wingularity – current forecast: pressure still rising.

  54. 54.

    JGabriel

    March 3, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    @Phil65:

    Did [Palin] say it recently? If so, we have to give her time to backpeddle.

    Said it in the 2008 interview with Couric, and, yes, Palin backpedaled (or maybe backfilled is more accurate). From Going Rogue via Marc Ambinder:

    “But your dad’s a science teacher,” Schmidt objected.
    __
    “Yes.”
    __
    “Then you know that science proves evolution,” added Schmidt.
    __
    “Parts of evolution,” I said. “But I believe that God created us and also that He can create an evolutionary process that allows species to change and adapt.”
    __
    Schmidt winced and raised his eyebrows. In the dim light, his sunglasses shifted atop his head. I had just dared to mention the C-word: creationism. But I felt I was on solid factual ground.

    .

  55. 55.

    jk

    March 3, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    @Davis X. Machina:

    I hope the race baiting can be kept to a minimum in the Republican primaries and general election but I’m not optimistic about it.

  56. 56.

    Culture of Truth

    March 3, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    To be fair if you hang around Republicans long enough you begin to have your doubts.

  57. 57.

    El Cid

    March 3, 2011 at 2:45 pm

    Fox blames Obama for oil industry subsidies he proposed ending and which Republicans protect.

    Here’s a look at some subsidies in President Obama’s 2012 Fiscal Year budget:
    __
    -$126 million for wind
    __
    -$340 million for bio fuels
    __
    -$457 million for solar
    __
    -$452 million clean coal
    __
    -$800 million for nuclear
    __
    Oil and gas get even more of your money through tax incentives, deductions, depreciation and investment credits. Those total about $3.6 billion a year, according to the Administration.

    Those money-wasting subsidies Obama’s proposing in his budget? Assuming Jed Lewison is correct:

    Obama’s budget doesn’t actually propose any such thing. In fact, his budget proposes eliminating those oil and gas subsidies. Meanwhile, just this week Republicans voted unanimously to protect them.

    On the plus side, Fox News is criticizing oil company subsidies.

  58. 58.

    JPL

    March 3, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    @jk: Plumline has an article about Obama’a remarks or lack there of up now. link

  59. 59.

    El Cid

    March 3, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    @JGabriel: FWIW.

    PRINCETON, NJ — Four in 10 Americans, slightly fewer today than in years past, believe God created humans in their present form about 10,000 years ago.
    __
    Thirty-eight percent believe God guided a process by which humans developed over millions of years from less advanced life forms, while 16%, up slightly from years past, believe humans developed over millions of years, without God’s involvement.

    As much as the guided-evolution notion is preferable to the creationist view (I don’t think it gets in the way of scientific research or teaching, or don’t recall cases), it is interesting that only 16% believe in an evolutionary process not controlled by magic.

  60. 60.

    Jeff from Cleveland Hts

    March 3, 2011 at 2:52 pm

    OT: Have you guys seen this video of Tea Partiers hating on Muslims? I don’t think I’ve ever been so disgusted with my fellow Americans:

  61. 61.

    Citizen_X

    March 3, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    @CoffeeTim:

    Just out of curiosity, does anyone here think Sarah or Ron could accurately describe the difference between a hypothesis and a theory in science? It often seems to me that they and the folks they are appealing to think they are indeed the same thing.

    Not hypothesis; they think scientific speculation and theory are the same thing.

  62. 62.

    jk

    March 3, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    @JPL:

    Thanks for the link.

  63. 63.

    Svensker

    March 3, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    @freelancer:

    My God. That actually made me cry, tears of rage and shame. And people from Congress actually showed up — that Congresswoman saying she hoped her Marine son would kill lots of Muslims? How the hell is this different than Germany in the late 30s?

  64. 64.

    Redshirt

    March 3, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    @Svensker: More Propaganda Channels.

  65. 65.

    Shoemaker-Levy 9

    March 3, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Is the point of this to show that Palin is more reasonable than Paul on this question? Because they aren’t answering the same question.

    Palin’s position is that humans were created by God who subsequently directed “microevolution”. She also supports teaching “both sides” in school. It’s impossible to tell from Paul’s rambling answer if that is also his position, but what he said is not inconsistent with it.

  66. 66.

    Citizen_X

    March 3, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    @freelancer: Holy crap, that video is depressing/enraging. Screaming at families with little kids. Yelling “Go back home” at native American citizens. I look at that and think, “Wow, so that’s what the pro-segregation crowds in the 50s must have been like.”

    Racist, POS thugs. That’s all I have to say.

  67. 67.

    The Moar You Know

    March 3, 2011 at 3:18 pm

    How the hell is this different than Germany in the late 30s?

    @Svensker: Germany didn’t have the world’s largest economy, the worlds most powerful army, or nukes.

  68. 68.

    Master of Karate and Friendship

    March 3, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    I should care about Sarah Palin’s views on science because. . . ?

  69. 69.

    freelancer

    March 3, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    @Svensker:

    How the hell is this different than Germany in the late 30s?

    I try really hard to avoid going Godwin, but their disgusting chants reminded me of the scene in Schindler’s List when the Polish Jews were ordered out of their homes and into the gettos and the little girl is screaming at them on the street as they walk by, “Goodbye, JEWS! Goodbye, JEWS!…”

    So sickening.

  70. 70.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 3, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    @Master of Karate and Friendship: Because you can use it for firebagging.

  71. 71.

    jk

    March 3, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    @Master of Karate and Friendship:

    I should care about Sarah Palin’s views on science because

    Neither you nor any voter should care about Palin’s views on anything because she’s not running for President. Discussion of Palin is simply a sideshow that distracts from more important issues. Anyone who was paying the slightest attention during the 2008 Presidential Campaign knows that Palin’s psyche is far too fragile for her to handle another Presidential Campaign.

  72. 72.

    Triassic Sands

    March 3, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    What Paul meant to say was:

    “Look, I’m an idiot. Not a minor idiot, but a huge, Texas-sized idiot. I have no idea what a “scientific theory” is and absolutely no idea what evolution is. Asking me a question like this is like asking Sarah Palin what she reads. Waste of time. Next question….”

  73. 73.

    cleek

    March 3, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    @jk:
    100x this

  74. 74.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 3, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    I was curious to see if the Ron Paul clip indicated that he really didn’t accept the truth of evolution, but it’s obvious that he is attempting to hedge: ” it’s a … it’s a theory”. But he ends up saying he doesn’t believe in it. Lying and pandering as usual.

    Evolution IS a theory. Just as gravity IS a theory.

    Let’s test the theory of gravity by chucking Rand Paul’s ass out of a helicopter, and see how real it is!

  75. 75.

    El Cid

    March 3, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Of course, they think “theory” means the same as “hypothesis” or “guess”.

  76. 76.

    JGabriel

    March 3, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Gallup via El Cid:

    Thirty-eight percent believe God guided a process by which humans developed over millions of years from less advanced life forms, while 16%, up slightly from years past, believe humans developed over millions of years, without God’s involvement.

    I don’t know if the picture is as bad as the poll draws. Specifically, I suspect that the 38% who believe God “guided evolution” includes a large segment more properly categorized as believing that God set up the parameters by which evolution could occur without “guiding” it — which is a distinction the poll doesn’t appear to make.

    But it’s a distinction that Darwin seems to have propagated himself, whether he believed in it or just thought it an acceptably ameliorative concept to ease the acceptance of natural selection. From the final paragraphs of The Origin of Species:

    To my mind it accords better with what we know of the laws impressed on matter by the Creator, that the production and extinction of the past and present inhabitants of the world should have been due to secondary causes …
    __
    There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.

    I should add: I believe evolution to be purely random.

    With that said, as an agnostic, I don’t have a real argument with people who believe in some kind of unmoving deity who set the whole shebang of physics and universe in motion, and stayed out of the way ever since. Given the choice between saying “God guided evolution” or “It’s all random”, such people might choose the the “guided” answer, even if they believe it was all random (or foreordained but unguided) once the initial parameters were set.

    So, without a “God set it in motion, and left it alone ever since” option, the poll might be misleading in its conclusions.

    And don’t try to put me in the position of defending that belief. I don’t share it and have no interest in defending it. I just know that a lot of people do share it, and the poll is incomplete without including it as an option.

    .

  77. 77.

    Ash Can

    March 3, 2011 at 3:54 pm

    @El Cid:

    it is interesting that only 16% believe in an evolutionary process not controlled by magic.

    That’s actually a pretty high percentage given that atheism runs at only 6%-9% of the nation.

    ETA: And what JGabriel said about the actual wording of the poll question(s), and how the notion of “control” was expressed or understood in the polling process.

  78. 78.

    JGabriel

    March 3, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    @JGabriel (Me):

    I should add: I believe evolution to be purely random.

    For the sake of accuracy, “purely random” should probably be some formulation like “unguided by anything but random mutations and the selective pressures of the local environment”.

    .

  79. 79.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 3, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    @JGabriel:

    I can go along with that. Although mutations that prove to have some utility tend to be reinforced through the natural selection process.

    One of the things Richard Dawkins talks about in several of his books is that a lot of people have problems getting their heads around the timescale issues of evolution. While we can observe it in human scale time in some species (bacteria and viruses, in particular) for humans themselves the times scales are much larger. Jared Diamond touches on time scale issues in Collapse, where people wouldn’t put two and two together as the trees are felled on Easter Island, for example, because they personally didn’t observe the change, and there were no records kept to provide a baseline for comparison.

  80. 80.

    Shoemaker-Levy 9

    March 3, 2011 at 4:16 pm

    @JGabriel:

    I don’t have a real argument with people who believe in some kind of unmoving deity who set the whole shebang of physics and universe in motion, and stayed out of the way ever since.

    I don’t have a real argument against it either, other than its pointlessness. If you look at deities as a conceptual idea, a deity that has no interactions with the human world is something of an absurdity. Deities have personal characteristics; mysterious forces that have no personal characteristics are called something else, e.g. gravity. And there’s no point in having personal characteristics if you don’t interact with persons.

    In my opinion Deism would be more properly called something else. If you think something initiated the chain of events resulting in our present universe, but you have no idea if it has personal characteristics and don’t think it’s existence has any consequences for you as an individual, call it something other than “God”, which is commonly accepted as the proper name for a Deity.

  81. 81.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 3, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    Good point about Deism, but I think that the Deists adopted that particular idea so as to soften the blow a bit.

    The thing about “personal gods” is that they are intimately involved with the non-immortals beneath them, to the extent that Zeus used to go around having sex with anything that moved, just about, in every possible disguise in order to gratify his all too human desires. The Greek gods were humans with the ability to toss lightning around, basically…with every last frailty of humans. Even the god of Abraham shows these tendencies, particularly with his self-confessed jealousy.

  82. 82.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 3, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:
    @Villago Delenda Est: We could be an experiment and be subject to observation but not interference. Look for something to be published in one of the more prestigious deity journals sometime down the road.

  83. 83.

    JGabriel

    March 3, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    The thing about “personal gods” is that they are intimately involved with the non-immortals beneath them, to the extent that Zeus used to go around having sex with anything that moved, just about, in every possible disguise …

    That Zeus was a strange dude. I mean, what could have possibly led him to believe that being sexually assaulted by a swan would be turn on for Leda?

    I mean, he’s got one of the all time great pick-up lines available to him: “I’m a god. Wanna fuck?” So why screw around with all the swan folderol? Is it just a fetish for feathers?

    .

  84. 84.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 3, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    @JGabriel: Leda was well known as a freak within the hipper circles in Sparta.

  85. 85.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 3, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    @JGabriel:

    “Ray, when someone asks you if you’re a god, you say YES!”

  86. 86.

    Cris

    March 3, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    @Redshift: They went from one to the next pretty quickly, because, to the amusement of everyone present, they didn’t actually know more than the first couple of lines of any of them.

    BOOOORN IN THE YOU ESS AY

  87. 87.

    vtr

    March 3, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Evolution’s just a theory. Like the atomic theory. Even though it’s only a theory, the bombs explode.

  88. 88.

    Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)

    March 3, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    @jk: All true.

  89. 89.

    licensed to kill time

    March 3, 2011 at 5:00 pm

    I’d like to thank JGabriel, Villago Delenda Est, Shoemaker-Levy 9 and Omnes Omnibus for taking a pointless Palin thread and turning it into a fascinating discussion about Deism. With funny bits!

    (this is not snark, I really mean it)

    That’s what I love about this place. Smart folks abound, and you never know where the thread will go.

  90. 90.

    Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)

    March 3, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    @Paul in KY: You have baby Doc Paul but we’ve got Kasich in the governor’s mansion, so sadly, I admit that KY is ahead of Ohio.

  91. 91.

    Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q)

    March 3, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    @David Koch, David Kochavich:

    That Sarah Palin is a piece of ass.

    fixt

  92. 92.

    celticdragonchick

    March 3, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    @joe from Lowell:

    Evolution should be taught as an accepted scientific principle in school. I see the hand of God in Creation, but that’s not science. My father was a science teacher, and science class should teach science.

    One of the few coherent and intelligent things I have heard from her.

  93. 93.

    Chuck Butcher

    March 3, 2011 at 6:14 pm

    YOu’ve got to stop and think about the part where St Ronnie is too liberal to fit today and yet was where he was. This puts some perspective on the “moderates” who think St Ronnie is a model. In fact what it says about the public in general is pretty scary.

  94. 94.

    Chuck Butcher

    March 3, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    @Ash Can:

    That’s actually a pretty high percentage given that atheism runs at only 6%-9% of the nation.

    So you’re proposing what? Atheism has exactly what to do with the issue? You’re puzzled that the absolutism of atheism doesn’t match an understanding of science? I’m damned confused about where it is you’re trying to go.

  95. 95.

    JGabriel

    March 3, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    @licensed to kill time: Aw, shucks. Thank you.

  96. 96.

    Matthew

    March 3, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    @Chuck Butcher: Many atheists think atheists have a monopoly on intelligence, just like many Christians think that Christians (or Christians of a certain kind) have a monopoly on righteousness. To be fair, with the religious types who dominate the debate in this country it’s an easy mistake to make.

  97. 97.

    Matthew

    March 3, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    @Matthew: For the atheists, I mean. Does the edit function actually work?

  98. 98.

    JGabriel

    March 3, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    @Matthew:

    Does the edit function actually work?

    Belated, but: Only if you right-click on the “Click to Edit” link, and choose “Open Link In New Tab”.

    .

  99. 99.

    Matthew

    March 4, 2011 at 12:13 am

    @JGabriel: Thanks!

  100. 100.

    Paul in KY

    March 4, 2011 at 8:36 am

    @Another Commenter at Balloon Juice (fka Bella Q): I’m so sorry that POS got in there in Ohio. We have a nominally Democratic governor down here (Steve Beshear) who is running for re-election against the state version of Mitch McConnell (David Williams) & certified ‘good ole boy ™’ Richie Farmer. Hopefully, having Williams on top will doom that ticket.

  101. 101.

    Ash Can

    March 4, 2011 at 8:58 am

    @Chuck Butcher: El Cid cited a statistic of 16% of survey respondents believing that evolution took place with no guidance or influence or involvement of a supreme being, and this struck him as being a low number. I was curious about how that statistic matched up with the percentage of non-believers in the nation, so I found a survey addressing that, which indicated that 9% of Americans don’t believe in “God,” and 6% don’t believe in any kind of spiritual force “out there” at all. Within this context, that 16% number appeared high, rather than low. There are plenty of factors that could be influencing this discrepancy, of course, but I wouldn’t have expected the percentages to be that different myself, and I was kind of surprised that they were. End of story.

  102. 102.

    Meg

    March 4, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    From Going Rogue

    But I believe that God created us and also that He can create an evolutionary process that allows species to change and adapt.

    Also in Oct 2006 governor race, Palin is the only candidate to suggest creationism should be discussed in schools.

    Teach both. You know, don’t be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both.

    Read more: http://www.adn.com/2006/10/27/217111/creation-science-enters-the-race.html#ixzz1Ffv5gBmf

Comments are closed.

Primary Sidebar

Recent Comments

  • Lapassionara on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: April 17, 2024 (Apr 17, 2024 @ 7:44am)
  • New Deal democrat on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: April 17, 2024 (Apr 17, 2024 @ 7:44am)
  • MattF on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: April 17, 2024 (Apr 17, 2024 @ 7:43am)
  • mrmoshpotato on Cold Grey Pre-Dawn Open Thread: Fading Neom Dreams (Apr 17, 2024 @ 7:37am)
  • OzarkHillbilly on COVID-19 Coronavirus Updates: April 17, 2024 (Apr 17, 2024 @ 7:32am)

🎈Keep Balloon Juice Ad Free

Become a Balloon Juice Patreon
Donate with Venmo, Zelle or PayPal

Balloon Juice Posts

View by Topic
View by Author
View by Month & Year
View by Past Author

Balloon Juice Meetups!

All Meetups
Talk of Meetups – Meetup Planning
Proposed BJ meetups list from frosty

Fundraising 2023-24

Wis*Dems Supreme Court + SD-8
Virginia House Races
Four Directions – Montana
Worker Power AZ
Four Directions – Arizona
Four Directions – Nevada

Featuring

Medium Cool
Artists in Our Midst
Authors in Our Midst
Positive Climate News
War in Ukraine
Cole’s “Stories from the Road”
Classified Documents Primer

Calling All Jackals

Site Feedback
Nominate a Rotating Tag
Submit Photos to On the Road
Balloon Juice Mailing List Signup
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Links)
Balloon Juice Anniversary (All Posts)

Fix Nyms with Apostrophes

Balloon Juice for Ukraine

Donate

Twitter / Spoutible

Balloon Juice (Spoutible)
WaterGirl (Spoutible)
TaMara (Spoutible)
John Cole
DougJ (aka NYT Pitchbot)
Betty Cracker
Tom Levenson
David Anderson
Major Major Major Major
ActualCitizensUnited

Political Action 2024

Postcard Writing Information

Balloon Juice for Four Directions AZ

Donate

Balloon Juice for Four Directions NV

Donate

Site Footer

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

  • Facebook
  • RSS
  • Twitter
  • YouTube
  • Comment Policy
  • Our Authors
  • Blogroll
  • Our Artists
  • Privacy Policy

Copyright © 2024 Dev Balloon Juice · All Rights Reserved · Powered by BizBudding Inc

Share this ArticleLike this article? Email it to a friend!

Email sent!