Via O-Dub, it appears the NY Times has noticed that the Great White Dope in NJ has a touch of an honesty issue:
New Jersey’s public-sector unions routinely pressure the State Legislature to give them what they fail to win in contract talks. Most government workers pay nothing for health insurance. Concessions by school employees would have prevented any cuts in school programs last year.
Statements like those are at the core of Gov. Chris Christie’s campaign to cut state spending by getting tougher on unions. They are not, however, accurate.
In fact, on the occasions when the Legislature granted the unions new benefits, it was for pensions, which were not subject to collective bargaining — and it has not happened in eight years. In reality, state employees have paid 1.5 percent of their salaries toward health insurance since 2007, in addition to co-payments and deductibles, and since last spring, many local government workers, including teachers, do as well. The few dozen school districts where employees agreed to concessions last year still saw layoffs and cuts in academic programs.
“Clearly there has been a pattern of the governor playing fast and loose with the details,” said Brigid Harrison, a political science professor at Montclair State University. “But so far, he’s been adept at getting the public to believe what he says.”
That is as close as you will ever get to a publication calling a politician a liar, and boy does it feel good. That wasn’t so hard now, was it?
JPL
hmmm.. I wonder why the public is so gullible? What are their sources for news?
BGinCHI
Does the right wing understand that Scrooge is not the hero of “A Christmas Carol”?
arguingwithsignposts
Here’s a better lede:
Not so hard, was it?
Kryptik
@BGinCHI:
Dude, some folks still think that Potter is the hero of “It’s A Wonderful Life” and Bailey the villain. No, seriously, I’m not shitting you, Douchehat had a much mocked column about precisely that.
gene108
This won’t make a difference.
There are a lot of rich folks in NJ, who’d be more than happy to see the poor folks, in really fucked up cities like Newark and Camden, get totally cut off from state funds. State funds that exist because their wealth is confiscated and redistributed to those poor bums.
I’m not sure what Christie has to do to lose that part of the state, but so far he’s not doing it. His poll numbers are nowhere near as bad as Corzine’s were before the 2009 election.
If the economy turns around, he might skate through a tight, but winnable, re-election campaign.
BGinCHI
Madison high school students walk out to go protest in the hundreds:
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/local_schools/article_b82bf660-4b33-11e0-9dbc-001cc4c03286.html
“At East High School, Principal Mary Kelley said about 600 students walked out around 10 a.m. She said she cautioned students about going to the Capitol because it’s a different climate than three weeks ago when about 800 East students walked out and joined the protests.
“I think the emotions are so much higher,” Kelley said. “There are very, very angry people, and I don’t want my kids to be in the middle of the volatility.”
Kelley said she encouraged students to have their parents come and take them to the Capitol if possible, though most decided to go there on their own.”
These kids fucking get it. I hope the GOP lodges in their memories.
Gin & Tonic
You seem to assume, mistakenly, that Christie or his staff actually give a shit about being called liars.
Culture of Truth
but, but, but Al Gore once exagerrated about a helicopter ride, or something…
cyntax
@BGinCHI:
What are you, some kind of commie? He’s the most Galtian character in the whole book; thus, he’s the hero.
Zifnab
@BGinCHI:
I don’t know if I’d run out and conflate “opportunity to skip school” with “fervent support for unions”. But I imagine a lot of Wisconsin teachers were spitting fire in the run up to the vote. That may have influenced things.
Bulworth
Oh, c’mon. Couldn’t they have included a little “but some people disagree” statement?
BGinCHI
@Zifnab: If you’ve been to any of these protest events, you’d see why they want to be there. It’s really exciting, and not because it’s like Woodstock.
I honestly think young people right now have very good bullshit detectors and they can see clearly that there is an entire party, run by white rich men, whose screams of “get off my lawn” do not appeal to them.
A Farmer
Why can’t they just say Chris Christie is a big, fat, lying fuck. That wasn’t so hard either.
Mike Kay (Ding-Dong-Broder's Dead)
Not only is he a liar, he’s FAT. Check that, he’s not fat, he’s grotesquely obese.
It only shows how slanted the corporate media is: they hammered Gore for being chubby (Clinton as well), yet they give this pig a free pass for being morbidly obese.
BGinCHI
Some fun budget facts from the Cap Times (of Madison), in the context of Moore’s speech last week:
“Moreover, while Wisconsin’s annual budget hole of $3 billion seems like a lot of money, it’s just 1.2 percent of the state’s $244 billion economy. (Wisconsin’s GDP is nothing to dismiss, ranking 54th in the world, between the United Arab Emirates and Finland.)
Which gets us back to Moore’s question about America’s “moral compass.”
Combined, the U.S. state budget deficits are projected at $112 billion for 2011. California is No. 1 at $17.9 billion alone. Big numbers, for sure.
But all those budget holes could be filled, with plenty left over, for the $150 billion the U.S. military spends each year in Iraq and Afghanistan. For a good take on these economic priorities, check this article in Forbes.
Here’s another Fun Fact: Extending those Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest 2 percent of Americans? That will cost the U.S. about $690 billion over the next 10 years, enough to cover every state budget hole — 6 times over.”
Hawes
He might be a Bullshitter more than a Liar. Liars know what the truth is and violate it. Bullshitters just don’t care what the truth is.
http://zombieland-nowbrainfree.blogspot.com/2011/03/shorter-nytimes-christie-is-lying.html
Maude
Christie will lie about the NYT article and say none of it is true.
geg6
@arguingwithsignposts:
You have it exactly right. A good journalist would use your lede. Unfortunately, we have an alarming lack of good journalists in this country.
@BGinCHI:
This is heartening and I believe the kids get it. I know the kids here on my campus do (even though they are a little older). It’s spring break and several of them have been here today asking what is happening with the governor’s budget and his vendetta against the PA universities. They understand very well what a 52% cut in our allocation means to them.
Suck It Up!
Is there some unwritten rule about calling someone a liar?
fasteddie9318
These are obviously only “lies” to those of you still mired in the primitive Reality-Based World. Those of us who have freed ourselves from the constraints of a world dominated by “facts” and “reality” know that there are no objective “lies”–there’s only what you can or can’t get a majority of the voters to believe.
kay
@gene108:
He lies a lot, and he lies regarding his own actions where people are able to immediately contradict him, with proof. Two of those situations so far, one was national news and the other was state news. He’s a middle-aged man. He didn’t just start doing this, suddenly, when he became governor.
The question then becomes how many does it take before he really gets into trouble. I personally think it’s just a matter of time. Everyone he deals with is already probably keeping records of any interaction with him. They have to.
Zifnab
@A Farmer:
Because then the debate just boils down to two people screaming “You’re a lying fuck!” “No, you’re a lying fuck!”.
Congressman Wilson might have scored points with his terrets outbreak during the SOTU in his base, but he didn’t really add any credence to his side among independent voters.
geg6
@kay:
He’s a disgusting bully, too. Now I know Jerseyites consider themselves tough and maybe they like that bullying crap now. But bullies only get worse until someone stands up to him. He will bully the wrong person or persons and the people of NJ will let him know.
Am I wrong or are his polling numbers not as stellar as the MSM would have us believe or that their starbursts have led them to believe?
Suffern ACE
@Kryptik: Speaking of Douchehat, and OT: anyone watching the Muslim Hazing hearings this morning? Has King managed to find evidence of Muslims reluctant to work with authorities (I guess that passes at radicalism). One statement from CNN talking head this morning is that sometimes Muslim parents don’t know exactly what their children are up to. Any other bombshells like that?
A Farmer
@Zifnab: Point taken, it just feels better to say it, then I can move on to the facts. The fact is, there is a class war, and the rich guys are winning. Easily. Now I don’t feel good again. This reasoning stuff is hard.
BGinCHI
@geg6: My students are older than your average college students, but they sure as hell see what’s going on here. The mindset of “I’ve got mine, screw everyone else,” is pretty narrow and generational.
R-Jud
@Zifnab:
FWIW, I have about 7 kids, all age 13-17 on my Facebook feed, and every single one of them is talking about what’s happening in WI and saying they should show support where they live too (PA), because “what’s happening to our teachers isn’t fair”. They are also complaining that poorer schools will negatively affect their future.
One kid said (I’m paraphrasing and correcting the spelling:) “They tell us to work hard, and then they make it harder for us to work.”
It’s heartening.
kay
@geg6:
I go back to the traffic nonsense he pulled as US attorney. That’s a prestigious job. Who screws around with shady dealings on a traffic ticket when they hold that job?
That’s just insane. The benefit isn’t worth the risk. He lies opportunistically. He lies when he doesn’t have to. He’s now been caught out twice because there was a record that refuted his claims. In the instance where he claimed the Obama Admin. granted fed money improperly , his first lie led to a second, public lie.
I just think he’s a train wreck waiting to happen. Putting aside fudging or not knowing facts or stats, those two instances are affirmative lies to dodge responsibility for a screw-up or to attack a political opponent. He volunteers. Those lies were not in response to questions.
dr. bloor
Sure, but it will feel even better when the Times musters the courage to print the headline “CHRISTIE: LYING REPUBLICAN FUCKHEAD”
Maude
@kay:
During the snowstorm when Christie was in Florida, a lot of his supporters in the south counties were really mad.
I think the stuff will build up and he will become unpopular.
If he does something corrupt, which is possible, he will have to resign and wouldn’t that break my heart.
Christie isn’t smart enough to pull this off.
He blamed his wife for not calling home dring his stay in Florida during the storm. That was after the first lie that he had called.
This could end up being fun.
kay
@geg6:
I just cannot imagine the governor of a state announcing that public school teachers in that state are not worthy of respect. Maybe it’s me, but I can’t imagine a grown-up with children in school doing that, frankly. If that’s his opinion, fine, but Jesus. Show some restraint. The governor undermining them while they’re doing their job just seems crazy to me, and wildly irresponsible. I don’t know how conservatives think this “schoolteachers suck!” campaign slogan is going to work out, but it’s hardly a pro-education message, on the ground and at the individual level. In my experience, one of the governor’s JOBS is “stay in school because it’s valuable”. I don’t know how people are supposed to square these two conflicting messages. “Your teachers all suck, but go and work hard anyway”?
kay
@Maude:
Another affirmative lie that was immediately debunked, correct? He said he contacted the lt gov, but he in fact had not. He volunteered this misinformation. Again.
I read the article but I had forgotten that one. I think that’s different than making up facts or statistics at a town hall meeting. He lies about interactions with specific people, and then they disprove what he said. That’s a little wacky, and he’s now done it three times, and all three times it hurt him. I don’t think he can stop.
Poopyman
@Suck It Up!:
It’s uncivil. Just ask David Broder.
cat48
Latest Christie poll not good for him:
someguy
@dr. bloor:
Fixed.
Uloborus
@Suffern ACE:
Yes, that does make them terribly different from every other parent on the face of the Earth, doesn’t it?
I have a bombshell for these people. It’s a really tough one. It goes contrary to everything you get told by the ‘protect the children’ scolds. If you know exactly what your teenage children are up to all the time… you are an abusive parent.
benjoya
can we call him krispy kreme or something?
Ella in New Mexico
State employees in New Jersey pay only 1.5% of their salaries for health insurance? That’s incredibly generous. (I imagine that’s the single coverage premium, and family would be more, certainly.) That means that if you make a reasonable middle class salary of $50k, you pay only $750 per year–a mere $62 bucks a month.
Our local public school employees–in one of the poorest states in the nation, by the way– pay the following:
That comes out to a high of about $100 single/$250 family coverage per paycheck for teachers, who make $40-50K per year.
In comparison, my spouse has worked as a modestly paid (GS 11)Federal Employee for the DOD for almost 25 years in a “scientific and technical” field. Federal Employees get premium subsidies as follows:
We pay $325 per month for the family premium for our health insurance. It’s not perfect, but it is a pretty good plan, with affordable co-pays. We feel incredibly lucky, and it certainly is NOT what stresses our family budget. (It’s crap like utilities, college tuition, student loans and gas prices while trying to put $500 bucks a payday into our retirement plan that squeeze the life out of our budget.)
What I’m saying is, paying 1.5% for health insurance would be like winning the frigging lottery for most of us–a luxury. If I knew that everyone in this country was going to get the insurance deal my family or the teachers in this town get, I’d bet ecstatic. It’s not necessary to give these benefits to working middle class people for practically free. Unless or until our nation can find a way to do it for everyone, we can pay our way- as long as its reasonable.
Chris Christie is a frigging turd, and I haven’t kept up with the actual numbers he’s using to justify his budget cuts, but for the record, unless EVERYONE in NJ is getting those kind of benefits, it’s really unfair to reserve them for government employees alone– at the expense of the very jobs they hold, the kids they teach, or the community safety they preserve.
gene108
@kay:
I’m not that confident. There’s a group of people, who support what he’s doing. I’m personally surprised that 46% of the people approve of the job he’s doing. That many people in NJ approve of him is just scary, especially considering his assault on education.
People in NJ pay a lot of money in property taxes, so they can send their kids to good schools. I thought his rolling back of the millionaires tax and thus losing several hundred million in revenue, which he offset by slashing several hundred million from state education funds, would’ve hurt him more than it has.
I think some people don’t care they are being lied to, as long as they can keep more of their money.
So far people don’t seem to associate him with having
corrupt sycophantsadvisers, who take home six figure salaries for being his friend, while their neighbor who works for the state is furloughed. People thought this about Corzine. It’s part of the reason people voted against him.If the economy improves, I think some of his excesses will be ignored. If the economy was doing better in 2009, I think some of Corzine’s negatives would’ve been ignored. I know people, who usually vote Democratic, who voted for Christie because the economy was in the toilet and they felt Corzine had his chance to do something about it and failed. If the economy turns around, they may credit it to Christie. Who knows.
I think I participated in that pool :-)
gene108
@benjoya: Don’t insult Krispy Kreme. They make good donuts.
Mnemosyne
@Ella in New Mexico:
Because the Giant Evil Corporation I work for in the private sector has a lot of purchasing power, I pay less than 3% of my salary for medical insurance, with a 90/10 split between me and the insurance company for hospitalization and 100 percent coverage of everything else. Is what I pay sufficiently high for you to allow me to keep it, or do you think I should have to pay more, too?
I honestly think this crabs in a bucket “they shouldn’t have what I don’t have” feeling is what the Republicans are able to successfully exploit again and again. People don’t look at the deal teachers got in New Jersey and think, “I should make some noise at my company and see if we can get something like that.” They think, “Hey, my tax money is paying for those teachers to get things I don’t have! Take that insurance away from them immediately!”
Llelldorin
@Ella in New Mexico:
No. This is complete nonsense. The mentality that “everyone else is getting screwed on health benefits, so they should be too” is exactly what creates the race to the bottom that we’re all enduring.
Yes, these benefits are more generous than mine. Given that corporate profits are at an all-time high while wages are staying absolutely flat, wouldn’t it be fairer if we weren’t getting hit up for ever-higher contributions to our heath care?
Fuck U6: A More Accurate Measure of the Total Amount of Duck-Fuckery in the Economy
Ella In New Mexico: Don’t be a douche.
Nylund
Pointing out conservative lies just proves that liberals are biased! And, who’s to say that the liberals aren’t just lying about how Christie is lying? It would be wrong not to speculate. Obviously, this proves that “both sides do it.” Ergo, conservatives are right and liberals are wrong.
Omnes Omnibus
@Poopyman:
I did. He didn’t respond. Now what?
mrmike
@someguy:
Bite me. Just because the guy is obese doesn’t have a ghu-damn thing to do with his execrable politics. You’re as bad as the “preznet is near” folks.
And yes, I’m obese. Wanna make a political point about that?
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
@Ella in New Mexico: And this is why the Republicans win. Too many people believe that no one in the middle class should have better benefits than anyone else in the middle class. The rich – well they have a God-given right to contribute less than their fair share.
YellowJournalism
What @Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people) said.
Ella, you should also remember that for the teachers at the lower end of the pay scale, those benefits give them a security that their income cannot (and if Republicans and many Democrats are successful, will not) provide them. Most of those teachers are also newer teachers who will ultimately leave the profession because it’s too demanding of a job for such little money and respect coming back to them.
Oh, but they can be replaced with private contractors! Problem solved!
YellowJournalism
Can someone tell me why the edit function isn’t working? I’m on Firefox. I thought that was sorta FYWP-proof. (Except for the naught buzzwords, I know.)
Ella in New Mexico
@Mnemosyne
@Llelldorin
@Felanius Kootea
@Fuck U6:
@YellowJournalism
Not one of you actually gets the point I was making in my post, then all of you completely knee-jerk over-reacted to it.
First of all, I am not a “Republican”(Fucking-Ick-Gross!)
because after 40 some years as an adult, I understand the sinusoidal waves of budgets and shortfalls and how to survive them.
Second, not only is my spouse a lifetime public servant, I worked for 15 years in a community non-profit for frigging peanuts. I understand all too well the financial sacrifices those of us doing public good works make to do our jobs. (BTW, I never got retirement OR health insurance through my employer then, either, which has most likely made me permanently behind the eight-ball for my retirement years.)
So please don’t lecture me on shit I already know–I get it that teachers, et.al are underpaid and we compensate them for that by taking care of them with decent benefits. I would like to see them paid even better AND get their benefits because they work in honored professions.
Third, I am NOT saying that people in the middle-class don’t deserve benefits–I am saying that in times of crisis, the difference between lay offs and keeping ones job might be slight increases in how much publicly employed people contribute towards those benefits.
The point I was making was this: when you choose to serve, either through the military, working for governments, or non-profits, there is a certain amount of modesty in compensation you must endure. That might include paying more than 1.5% of your salary for health insurance if your fucking state is tanking and your bloated whale of a governor is threatening to close schools and fire police officers because you won’t.
Ella in New Mexico
@YellowJournalism:
It’s not working for me on Firefox or Safari, FWIW.
Petorado
@ suckitup
Agreed. “Fast and loose” are adjectives better suited for describing randy teenagers (as well as Newt’s cheating heart) than elected leaders caught in abject lies about public policy when speaking to the public whose interests they swore an oath to protect.