A good crowd:
Thousands of union supporters ignored icy winds today for a rally outside the Indiana Statehouse calling for lawmakers to drop measures that would cut back on labor rights.
Leo Gerard, international president of the United Steelworkers. said that corporate America started a war on unions. “We’re going to kick their ass,” Gerard said.
The rally began with a minister praying for justice, and wisdom for lawmakers. A Marine veteran of Iraq and son of a steelworker led the crowd in reciting Pledge of Allegiance
The rally crowd peaked at more than 8,000 people at noon and slipped to about 7,000 by 1 pm., Indiana State Police spokesman Sgt. Dave Bursten said.
Mitch Daniels’ Indiana is no longer A Shining City on a Hill, apparently. Funny how there’s been so little national commentary on Indiana. I’m thinking it’s because these protesters are (predominately) private sector union members and supporters, and that contradicts what conservatives are claiming, nationally.
Conservatives would like to limit this debate to public sector unions, or the now-discredited “budget” theme, but that isn’t what’s going on in Indiana, now, today, and for the last three weeks.
Daniels made himself a national figure, and he’s certainly a Republican leader. Shouldn’t he be asked about his position on unions? My own governor, former FOX News personality John Kasich, periodically barks that he’s not “anti-union”, unasked.
What does that mean, specifically, and why does he keep saying it?
Bulworth
Well, I’m sure Kasich and his ilk aren’t anti-union, as long as there aren’t actually any functioning, effective, unions around, that actually try to represent real workers.
Violet
Isn’t it interesting that the day after Walker and his GOP cronies rammed that bill through, that the markets are off significant amounts. Coincidence? Hmmm….
Kay
@Bulworth:
I think it’s more than that. I think he and Mitch Daniels are worried about the union members who vote GOP in rust belt states.
Kasich had a very low vote total. He barely eked out a win. I just think it’s incumbent on national media to ask these guys why private sector union members are marching on their respective capitols. Because they ARE.
Particularly as both men have been given a national forum, and comment on national issues.
Loneoak
Reposted from previous thread:
This piece from Maddow last night on the outrageous usurpation of democracy in the Michigan budget bill really must be frontpaged. Snyder’s budget in MI allows the governor, or his proxy in a private consulting firm (not kidding), to declare any local government “in fiscal crisis” and dissolve that elected government and replace it with anyone he chooses. He would also be able to dissolve all collective bargaining, zoning, and regulations by fiat. Or, rather, the private corporation (Amway? Dow?) that he put in charge of the government could do so.
jeffreyw
It means, specifically, that he is a lying sack of shit. There is a non zero chance that saying it will get him a union vote. That, of course, requires that the union member doesn’t pay attention-and that happens too often.
wheaton pat
Lets take over the investment boards of the state pensions. Buy only those state bonds in states that support labor rights. Dump all Koch stocks/bonds all at once.
Lets go fight in their dining room
The Dangerman
The Right really wants the Presidency back in 2012 and they’ll have to pull out all the stops to get one of their loser candidates within Diebold (read: cheating) distance. Going after Public Unions is one thing; Private Unions, well, they are going all out.
Fuckers.
Violet
@Kay:
Yes, that’s got to be what’s going on. The GOP knows that union members have voted for them in the past and that they can’t afford to lose that vote. Thus the pandering, while trying to destroy the unions.
The Ancient Randonneur (formerly known as The Grand Panjandrum)
Yes, what does it mean? He should be asked if he is “pro-union”? Anyone can say they not “anti-union” without actually supporting union and worker rights.
I am not anti-smoking, I just don’t want anyone doing it near me, or my kids, or any indoor space we might occupy in the next year or so.
stuckinred
@jeffreyw: Is that baked or stir-fryed?
kay
@The Dangerman:
Right, and private sector union voters are not evenly spread throughout the nation.
They’re particularly important to conservative politicians in the rust belt, according to Nate Silver. The flip side of that is conservative politicians in the rust belt should have to answer specific questions on private sector unions. Now. Before the next election.
The Ancient Randonneur (formerly known as The Grand Panjandrum)
@Loneoak: Sounds like they truly want to make the governor more CEO-like sound they can handle state financial issues in a more “business-like” way. The ultimate GOP goal in my opinion.
jayjaybear
Heh…I love the Kasich barking. What was it LBJ said once? “Of course we can’t PROVE that he’s a pig-fucker. But we can damn sure make him deny it!”
Paul in KY
A union between one man & one woman, I would presume.
Davis X. Machina
Indiana’s public-sector employees lost the right to collective bargaining in 2005 by a Daniels executive order on his first day in office.
So it doesn’t fit the narrative in two ways — it’s not pension-pimping public-sector
workersdrones whose ox is being gored, and, unaccountably, Indiana is not yet flourishing despite 5 blissful years of a non-union public sector, which was doubtless the only thing holding it back.Cat Lady
Kay, it doesn’t matter what the national media are saying any more. This isn’t astroturfed with the bobbleheads setting the day’s talking points. Regardless what happens in the end, the national media has only confirmed their corruptness and irrelevance, and there’s no going back for them. People are telling each other what they’re seeing onsite in real time, and the clowns in the beltway are stuck telling them not to believe their lying eyes. The media and the goopers forgot to keep their eyes on Toto.
Pangloss
I have a friend that keeps insisting— out of the blue– that he’s NOT gay.
kay
@Violet:
Chris Christie does it too, and Brown in Massachusetts. Brown would not have won without union voters.
Look, if Democrats were running a 15 state strategy on anything, they’d all be asked if they agree with it.
I don’t know why conservatives who rely on union voters are getting a pass.
kay
@Davis X. Machina:
Exactly.
Morbo
@Loneoak: It’s good to see the mask of sanity taken off, although it was also good on its own right while it lasted. I had figured Snyder was a difference in tone and not substance from the teabaggiest of the teabaggy. It’s good to have confirmation.
beltane
Kasich is actually pro-union if you consider the cartel among the GOP, Wall Street and the Koch brothers to be a kind of union. It is only controversial when workers organize, not when the rich boys plot and collude.
Legalize
The liberal media aren’t focusing on Indiana because that would only serve to throw cold water on one of their anointed, “serious” 2012 contenders.
Davis X. Machina
@kay:
And the truck. And Boston sports-talk radio, which is as overtly political as most talk-talk radio.
But yeah, he would not have won without union voters. Both of my unionized brothers — both registered Democrats, too — in MA voted for him…
kay
@jeffreyw:
Right, but even if they’re paying attention they won’t know if no one asks him.
I’m not interested in what he says. I’m interested in forcing him to say something definitive and specific. If they’re going to run a 15 state assault, they should have to pick a side. Can’t have it both ways, Mitch.
beltane
@Cat Lady: I’ll I’m seeing on FB right now from my old high school friends is Wisconsin related stuff plus other tidbits having to do with the GOP’s war on women. I sincerely doubt most of these people are posting on political blogs so it seems to be more of a case of the media having become completely irrelevant to everyone under a certain age.
rea
Oh, they love unions in their proper place–which they think is 1980’s Communist Poland.
Loneoak
@Morbo:
Since I don’t live in the state anymore, I had followed his election from a distance and he didn’t seem all that terrible, but had the same worry as you. He seemed to be mostly a technocrat, but this is an ugly, ugly mating of technocrat and teabaggery.
kay
@Davis X. Machina:
Thanks. I’m going by a WSJ article I read. Again, he may well be pro-union or neutral, but since his Party are engaged in a goddamned WAR, I think he should be asked about it.
They’re going to have to pick a side.
Chris
Corporate America’s war on unions goes back to 1980 at least, but the message generally is right on.
The Dangerman
@kay:
Nope; all the activity is in swing states (including Indiana, not typically a swinger, but Obama won there).
I still think Obama wins, but it will be close and it will be ugly. If the Right nominates some loser (Palin) and said loser wins in a squeaker …
Cat Lady
@beltane:
I hope Broder’s death is the first of many. As others here have said, there won’t be justice until the last bobblehead is strangled with the entrails of the last Republican.
Ogden Gnash
@beltane: Judging from how my 25 year old son and his friends live, I’d say you are onto something. They’re smart, aware, involved and ignore Fox, ABC, NBC, CBS, the NYT, NPR and the rest of them as much as they can.
kdaug
Think along these lines:
Crewmate of a ship yells out from the crow’s nest “Cap’n! I’ve spotted a pirate ship on the horizon, coming in at a full clip!”
Captain turns to his first mate and says “Bring me my red jacket”.
First mate: “Of course… but, why, sir?”
Captain: “Because, should I be shot in the coming battle, the red will camoflauge my blood, and the rest of the crew will fight on valiantly seeing that I’m still standing”.
Crewmate in the crow’s nest: “Cap’n! Six more pirate ships approaching!”
Captain to first mate: “Bring me my brown trousers”.
Pococurante
@beltane: My facebook page is a political blog… too many of my friends and family are the epitome of low information voter.
debit
I re-read bits of The Jungle last night; anyone who’s anti union and anti regulation should be forced to read it. The predatory lending and worker abuse still resonate today. And frankly, we’re one more GOP cycle away from the days of rotten meat and floor filth being canned and sold to the general public.
NonyNony
Oooh – I know the answer to these!
It means John Kasich is a lying sack of shit who is incapable of going 10 minutes without lying about something. So every once in a while he has to throw out some lie unprompted, like “I’m not anti-union” – otherwise, I think his deal with Satan is voided.
Nick
@Davis X. Machina:
this is of course because Martha Coakley was a Conservadem and they thought “well since there’s no different between the two…”
amirite?!?!
Davis X. Machina
@Nick: No. It was her high whiney voice, and pretending to be a Red Sox fan when she really wasn’t, and the truck. And in a tie, you don’t vote for the chick.
Substantive policy issues like that.
PeakVT
What does that mean, specifically, and why does he keep saying it?
It’s like Faux’s “Fair and Balance” slogan. Kasich repeats it for the same reason.
Mnemosyne
@debit:
My cat was poisoned by the fucking rice gluten from China. I think we’re already there — it just hasn’t been exposed yet.
Left Coast Tom
It means he hasn’t yet proposed their members be made into Soylent Green.
debit
@Mnemosyne: I am so sorry. And yeah, it’s not just China. Remember the peanut products recall? The place where the salmonella started paid its own inspectors, who shockingly enough, always gave the place a A+ grade.
kdaug
@Left Coast Tom:
I think the brown-trousers paradigm is a better fit.
satby
@debit: We are there. But like everything else, the low info American voter just can’t connect the dots.
debbie
@kay:
Then how stupid are they to have thought they could do what they’re in fact doing? Republicans must have been blinded with rage to think they could destroy their opposition by destroying the unions and not have noticed how many of those members broke rank and voted Republican because of their well–publicized promise to focus “like a laser” on jobs.
Kasich is an out-and-out liar, trying to hide behind his goofball gee-whiz persona. Not only is he anti-union, he’s anti-prevailing-wage. He has said publicly that if it came down to a choice between supporting entrepreneurs who want to build in Ohio and workers who expect prevailing wages, he’ll go with the entrepreneur every time.
Like he is fond of saying, “We’re coming back…at the speed of business.”
Kryptik
And the hits from the Conservagov Cabal just keep on coming. The latest atrocity comes out of Florida, where they’re planning on cannibalizing at least 5, and up to fourty state parks in order to create more golf course resorts. Mind, Florida is already the state with the most golf courses in the entire country.
Maude
@debbie:
Have you ever noticed that dumb people think everyone else but them is dumb?
kindness
‘Why does he keep saying it (he isn’t anti-union)?’
Republithugs can’t help themselves. To them, lying is their version of Tourette Syndrome. We should name it for them.
republithug syndrome? A little help here people…
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@Bulworth:
Congratulations. You’ve managed to stumble into the conservative view on pretty much everything having to do with rights under the Constitution as well. Make ’em pretty sounding, but utterly unenforceable by anybody without a shitpile of cash.
NonyNony
@debbie:
Exactly. He’s a lying sack of shit. He has been for as long as I’ve been aware of him (sometime in the 90s was when I remember starting to see his smiling rictus of a face various places in Ohio). He had a perfect job for a lying sack of shit when he was a lobbyist – why couldn’t he have just left well enough alone and stayed in his cushy lobbyist position and let someone who cares about the state of Ohio be governor instead? Even Bob “Goofus” Taft seemed like he cared whether the state lived or died, even if his decision making capabilities were somewhere around the level of a can of expired peaches – Kasich just wants to take all of our states remaining assets and sell them off to his cronies.
I swear to Grod – every time I see his mug on TV the first thing that pops into my head is “The Smiler” from Warren Ellis’s Transmetropolitan series – a man who would gladly run over his kids dog if he thought it would help him get his way. The only other politician who has ever done that to me is George W Bush. And frankly, Kasich is far, far smarter than Bush could ever hope to be, which makes him worse.
Uloborus
@Davis X. Machina:
You have to admit, she ran the worst campaign ever. She could probably have gotten more votes by holding a press conference and calling everyone in the state a fuckhead. It would at least have gotten her name recognition.
lou
@Kryptik: Where are those state parks? If they’re in southern Florida, the state already is facing a fresh water shortage with the sprawl and the pollution and runoff from the present golf courses, roads, sprawling development (to say nothing of the federally subsidized sugar cane fields). The Biscayne aquifer is in bad trouble. That’s why, no matter how much I miss Florida in the winter, I’d never move back. A crisis is going to hit one of these days and it won’t be pretty.
Plus it will be under water in 50 years anyway. Not that I’ll be alive then (at least I hope not).
lou
Florida is a “right to work” state and that’s one of the most Orwellian terms ever created. As an attorney who deals with employment issues told me, it means your boss can fire you if he doesn’t like the color of your hair. It’s more like “right to fire at will” state.
So I feel sorry for midwesterners beginning to experience this lovely way of corporate think.
Kryptik
@lou:
The one park known for sure to be built on if this passes is Jonathan Dickinson St. Park, which is indeed in Southern Fla. The other candidates that meet the initial acreage requirements are named in the article here.
SiubhanDuinne
@kindness:
TouReppe Syndrome?
Tax Analyst
@kindness:
“ORRD”: “Obsessive-Repulsive Republican Disorder”?
DougWieboldt
I think the “lying sack of shit meme” explains the Republican position…