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This year has been the longest three days of putin’s life.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but it’s not funny to me.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

You cannot shame the shameless.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

“Everybody’s entitled to be an idiot.”

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

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Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

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You are here: Home / America’s last half-assed attempt at a serious newspaper

America’s last half-assed attempt at a serious newspaper

by | 150 Comments

This post is in: 

Ken Layne has a good post about Bob Herbert’s last column:

America’s last half-assed attempt at a serious newspaper, the New York Times, is rapidly losing the last of its serious op-ed writers. Bob Herbert is the latest to say goodbye, and his final column is devastating. It starts like this: “So here we are pouring shiploads of cash into yet another war, this time in Libya, while simultaneously demolishing school budgets, closing libraries, laying off teachers and police officers, and generally letting the bottom fall out of the quality of life here at home.” Haha, and then it gets depressing. But it’s good to see somebody in the NYT taking on the actual monsters in our nation — our horrific income inequality, the Obama Administration’s perfidy in letting G.E. chief executive Jeffrey Immelt run the White House’s “Council on Jobs and Competitiveness” even as G.E. refuses to pay a nickel in corporate tax, statehouse wars against public-service employees, congressional wars against women and Muslims and the poor, etc.

At the risk of sounding trite and boring, this message needs to be repeated.

Reader Interactions

150Comments

  4. 4.

    Rob

    But there were no cute nicknames like Dowd gives out or pseudo-science klaptrap like Brooks peddles. Yawn.

  6. 6.

    Bob Loblaw

    I dunno, he said “Obama administration’s perfidy.” I’m not sure we can trust such a wild-eyed leftist/peddler of false equivalence/insidious concern troll.

  7. 7.

    BR

    The GE story is just another way of keeping us proles agitated without actually telling us the real story. The real story being that all big corporations avoid paying taxes and they do so via loopholes that their lobbyists wrote into the tax code by buying off congress, and that the average megacorporation pays a lower tax rate than the average janitor, and that the only way way we can fix this is to get money out of our politics through major reforms.

  8. 8.

    Suck It Up!

    Well we still have the Huffington Post.

    Seriously though, lets stop acting like the NYT can save America. Not everyone reads it. Our local papers are the ones that need to step up.

  9. 9.

    GregB

    I think that Herbert’s problem was that he didn’t spend enough time getting his opinions reaffirmed by cab drivers.

  11. 11.

    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik

    But Doug, now that NYT is purging it’s devious hippies from its rolls, it can TRULY be a Very Serious Paper now! Why don’t you see that?

  14. 14.

    Corner Stone

    Who the hell appointed G.E. chief executive Jeffrey Immelt to run the White House’s “Council on Jobs and Competitiveness” ?

  15. 15.

    Suck It Up!

    I’d also like to add that Herbert is not dead. And if he was so widely ignored why all this crying that we are now doomed because his voice his gone from the NYT?

  17. 17.

    Corner Stone

    GOP appears poised to take on entitlements
    “The centrist Democratic group Third Way says the public is ready to embrace gradual changes to entitlement programs and that Republicans are winning the issue so far.

    “We don’t believe Republicans ‘going too far’ will be their Waterloo,” the group said in a memo. “The party seen as most serious on the issue will win the day.”

    We’re doomed.

  18. 18.

    PurpleGirl

    @Corner Stone: President Obama did back in January. Because GE has been sooooo good about keeping jobs in the US….

    It is true that all the corporations do what GE has been doing and have been doing it for years. And they all have been reducing jobs here while hiring overseas. But the NYT had a good article about GE and taxes the other day.

  19. 19.

    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik

    @Corner Stone:

    I would think about moving to Canada at this point, but it seems like the wingnuttification has taken over there as well, if suggestions that the Conservatives could very well take the outright majority up there are true.

    I hate feeling this helpless.

  20. 20.

    Bob Loblaw

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Yes, the CEO of an multinational super-conglomerate that couldn’t possibly care less about domestic job creation and competitiveness is such an honest and upright choice to head a council on domestic job creation and competitiveness.

    Either it’s rank corruption, or it’s a meaningless Potemkin exercise. Either way, the working man gets fucked.

  21. 21.

    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik

    @PurpleGirl:

    True, they may have been doing this all the time, but it’s still wholly depressing when the zeitgeist is telling us either that they’re right and patriotic for doing so, or that the only answer for this is to lower/eliminate corporate taxes altogether, because they’re STILL paying way too goddamn much thanks to the Dirty Fucking Hippies.

    There just seems like there’s no fucking win here anymore. There’s no fucking hope at fucking all.

  23. 23.

    PurpleGirl

    @The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik: I wasn’t trying to “excuse” it or explain it. It makes me depressed too.

    Some time last year, IBM announced layoffs domestically and then announced increased overseas hiring. Whirlpool got a 19 Million federal grant for energy efficiency research and then announced closing a factory in Indiana and its transfer of manufacturing to Mexico and a new plant. And the list goes on. Both Republicans and Democrats have been complicit in the movement of jobs by corporations.

  26. 26.

    PeakVT

    @GregB: I think that Herbert’s problem was that he didn’t spend enough time getting his opinions reaffirmed by have enough cab drivers as imaginary friends.

    I’m convinced the Mustache of Understanding just makes that stuff up.

  27. 27.

    Corner Stone

    Might as well nominate Mozilo for Sec Housing and Milken for Sec Treas and just get it over with.

  28. 28.

    Montysano

    @Corner Stone:

    GOP appears poised to take on entitlements

    This is not directed at you personally CS, but let me just say, as someone who has been steadily employed since 1968, how much I fucking despise the term “entitlement”.

    To lighten the mood, here’s a lazy overpaid teacher who is obviously just cruising on autopilot to a cushy retirement.

  31. 31.

    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik

    @Incoherent Dennis SGMM:

    The moment when the DLC and its mindset became the dominant force within the Democratic Party, and ‘liberal’ became the biggest political four-letter word ever since ‘communist’.

  32. 32.

    GregB

    Entitlement is to Social Security what death tax is to estate tax.

    It’s a Frank Luntz propaganda term used to belittle and marginalize.

  33. 33.

    Neldob

    I will miss Bob Herbert, I read his column consistently for years, and look forward to his book. And will work harder for progressive change.

  34. 34.

    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik

    Guh, I just had another comment completely swallowed without any kind of moderation notice or anything.

  35. 35.

    J. Michael Neal

    @The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik: Under the right circumstances, such as raising the top marginal rates on the individual income tax and throwing in a carbon tax (or cap and trade with the government selling the permits), I’m all in favor of eliminating the corporate income tax. I don’t buy into the arguments that it’s somehow unfair for corporations and shareholders to each be taxed separately; that’s idiotic. However, the corporate income taxes are where the largest tax inefficiencies and loopholes are found. If we could get rid of it, an awful lot of the ridiculous favoritism of one business over another, and one industry over another, would vanish. If elected officials wanted to subsidize corporate cronies, they’d actually have to appropriate spending to do it.

    Of course, it will never happen on my terms, so I mostly shut up about it.

  36. 36.

    gogol's wife

    I’m sorry, I faithfully read Bob Herbert too, but I do not recall anyone on this blog, front-pager or commenter, referring to him, linking to him, or in general betraying any awareness of his existence until he announced he was leaving. I’m sure someone will be able to dig up some post somewhere, but I mean on a regular basis — certainly not four or five posts in two days. I of course agreed with his analysis of most things, but I thought he (like Paul Krugman) showed little awareness of what is politically possible for a president to achieve in the present climate. And little awareness of what the alternatives to Obama would be doing in his place.

  37. 37.

    Dennis SGMM

    @J. Michael Neal:
    A repeal of the corporate income tax would at least keep the corps from making billions in profits and then hitting up the gov for a tax rebate.

  38. 38.

    Richard S

    The NYT wins this round in its race with the WAPO to the bottom of the birdcage. Get a dark colored bird cause the print will wipe off on the feathers.

  39. 39.

    4jkb4ia

    I thought Bob Herbert had been done to death here, but he’s an answer to why there aren’t more people like him in the “establishment media”. Of course “establishment media” is a matter of definition and self-definition, so that you almost have to leave MSNBC out. But he said he was leaving to do more work on behalf of the people he wrote about. For the right wing, opinionating IS political work. The left wing has been forced to understand the difference between opinionating and organizing/mobilization/working for greater democracy. Opinionating is effective to the extent that you reach the people you want to mobilize.

  40. 40.

    4jkb4ia

    (From TNC’s comment section:

    I also feel like a few regulars are kind of having a hard time in their personal lives right now and it’s spilling into the discussions in ways that I haven’t really seen before.

    I would disagree with this. I think the community has gotten way closer on a human level over the past blah months, and that has led people to reveal more of themselves and be less careful about moderating their words because they feel they’re enough of a known quantity that they don’t have to be careful. Which, you know, I don’t think should be true in close lifelong friendships and romantic relationships. I think it’s on everyone to monitor their words and speak carefully 100% of the time in their lives.

    k-bee replied:

    Yeah I agree. The “revealing more of themselves” part has been kind of amazing, but we all need to remember that the “less careful about moderating their words” part that instinctively goes along with that is just not OK to do. Yes I see why it happens, but it is basically treating this space and the others in it badly, just because you know and like it here. How does that make sense?

    I took this to heart. The end. Not that I feel comfortable commenting on any of John’s threads right now.)

    (In other words there is a difference between having a safe space and egoizing all over the lot.)

  41. 41.

    Barb (formerly Gex)

    @Corner Stone: The same people who are celebrating the trend of workers working for no pay. Hey, it says “jobs” not “*paying* jobs.”

  42. 42.

    Villago Delenda Est

    The greatest “entitlement” of all is inheriting millions.

    No one with a trust fund has any basis to cry about “entitlements”.

  43. 43.

    stuckinred

    Since we waited until half-way through the first game before we had a hoop thread yesterday let me take this opportunity to say FUCK KANSAS!

  46. 46.

    Suffern ACE

    @gogol’s wife: Shhhhh. You aren’t the only one who noticed that. Sadly for Herbert, the Liberal conversation is very much determined by reaction to what conservatives are bemoaning at the moment.

  47. 47.

    srv

    Obama Administration’s perfidy in letting G.E. chief executive Jeffrey Immelt run the White House’s “Council on Jobs and Competitiveness” even as G.E. refuses to pay a nickel in corporate tax

    Throwing hippies under the bus isn’t enough anymore, now they like backing up over them.

  50. 50.

    cat48

    This again is not accurate. Immelt does not “run” anything at the WH. He’s Chairman of the Volunteers who comprise the Council, actually “run” by Goolsbee’s/Sperling offices. But let’s make the leaders of the Dems look as bad as possible b/c that’s how we win, right? Forget about the feckless rethug House that would not authorize $$ for a job’s program or state bailouts, which are run mostly by rethugs who are breaking unions & refusing any Fed bailouts.

    That’s the way Krugman & Herbert roll, always. They only blame the president who has been accused by “the electorate” who did manage to vote in 11/2010 of being a wasteful spending Dem, as usual. Yes, but if he used the bully pulpit, as he has been since before the election at least once a week or more “jobs focused” trip into a state of his choice; the rethug House would immediately release money for jobs & bailouts for the states. It’s simply not true that he hasn’t tried. He’s focused on jobs & education & Arab uprisings & Japan.

    It’s too simplistic to always blame whomever is president. Both columnists have done excellent work in the past & will in the future, but it’s simply lazy to always blame him. The only money he has access to is war money. It is of no benefit to the president or any other pol to face re/election with a bad economy.

    I like Gail Collins better b/c she calls out the prez when he’s guilty & the Congress when they are….it just seems more honest.

  54. 54.

    debbie

    Well, appointing this G.E. guy is a disappointment, but it’s still overshadowed by Elizabeth Warren. And if he can figure out how to put her in charge, then it’s a permanent win.

  58. 58.

    4jkb4ia

    @gogol’s wife:

    I did! I reminded DougJ that he was “far from a mealy-mouthed fink” in the “Lie down liberals” thread. Since I had a complete emotional meltdown in the same one, you missed nothing.

  59. 59.

    gogol's wife

    @Corner Stone:

    The word “entitlements” makes me crazy. I have no suggestions for an alternative that would actually be used by anyone in the media.

  60. 60.

    Corner Stone

    @debbie:

    Well, appointing this G.E. guy is a disappointment, but it’s still overshadowed by Elizabeth Warren. And if he can figure out how to put her in charge, then it’s a permanent win.

    Let’s you and I talk again when this never happens.
    And how many fucking thieves and assholes can be appointed before the balance is untenable?
    These people don’t exist in a vacuum. They are there for a reason. Now, you can argue the old trope, “Better inside the tent pissing out” but you’d seem pretty fucking silly doing so.

  61. 61.

    Corner Stone

    President GWB to some woman at a town hall who just said she’s working 3 jobs to make ends meet, “Good for you! That’s just uniquely American, isn’t it?”

  62. 62.

    cat48

    @gogol’s wife:

    Thanks so much. Sometimes it just gets to be a bit much. I wish he could authorize money himself. We would have infrastructure at least. Also, Kerry has a bipartisan group together for an infrastructure bank in the Senate. If it ever makes it to the House, we’ll be lucky.

  65. 65.

    4jkb4ia

    @cat48:

    I think this discussion was had when Immelt was appointed, and to treat Immelt as some kind of sinister figure who manipulates Obama isn’t true. But the principle is who has earned the right to have the president’s ear. Jamie Dimon at least has been as much of a good corporate citizen as he knows to be. If GE does not pay taxes and pretends to be an industrial company when they are strongly depending on the proceeds of the finance company (Mike Konczal wrote about this and Andrew Ross Sorkin wrote in TBTF about serious concern about GE Capital being the next in line after Goldman and Morgan Stanley, including from Immelt himself) what can you learn from their experience?

    /DON”T EGOIZE.

  71. 71.

    Bob Loblaw

    @cat48:

    But let’s make the leaders of the Dems look as bad as possible b/c that’s how we win, right?

    When did it become a NYT columnist’s job to make sure Democrats win office? Did Herbert work for the DNC?

    It’s clear that people like you aren’t ethically turned off by partisan operations like Fox News, you’re envious.

    You can’t ask commentators to speak truth to power and then scream about counterproductivity when they do.

  72. 72.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @stuckinred:

    Since we waited until half-way through the first game before we had a hoop thread yesterday let me take this opportunity to say FUCK KANSAS!

    You are obviously a bitter loser. Too bad.

    ROCK CHALK JAYHAWK!

  77. 77.

    Corner Stone

    @gogol’s wife:

    I have no suggestions for an alternative that would actually be used by anyone in the media.

    I’d be happy if they stopped mentioning SS in the same breath as Medicare/Medicaid.
    But they never will, for some strange reason.

  79. 79.

    gogol's wife

    @Bob Loblaw:

    If Bob Herbert really cared about the things he wrote about, I would think it would be logical for him to want Democrats to win. There isn’t anyone else who would DO anything about the things he kept moaning about.

  80. 80.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Corner Stone: I have tried to reply to this twice, but FYWP keeps eating it. How about Job Creating, Jesus Endorsed, Free Market Strengthening, Individual Freedom Credits?

  82. 82.

    gogol's wife

    @Bob Loblaw:

    And Fox News is not the same as an op-ed columnist with a well-known political tendency. They purport to be offering news, not commentary.

  83. 83.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @Corner Stone:

    I’m still pissed at OH St. Fuck you Buckeyes!

    Sorry to hear that. Losing does sort of suck.

    Which is why I’m shitting my Depends right now watching my Jayhawks slop up the floor in the first half against VCU.

  84. 84.

    Montysano

    VCU is playing some serious ball. Well-coached and disciplined, but still explosive, which is tough to do.

  85. 85.

    gogol's wife

    I guess this is now a basketball open thread, so it’s a good reason to go back to work. Thank you.

  86. 86.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @gogol’s wife:

    The word “entitlements” makes me crazy. I have no suggestions for an alternative that would actually be used by anyone in the media.

    Could you explain why that word bugs you? If there are laws providing for programs to which all citizens are entitled if they meet the requirements, then it seems natural to call them entitlements.

    Beware the right wing. They are demonically good at getting the MSM to adopt their fucked up vision of how the english language is permitted to be used.

    They made “liberal” a dirty word, changed “democratic” to “democrat” as an adjective, and have long been screeching that it is somehow wrong to call something to which one is entitled an entitlement.

    It bugs me to no end when progressives adopt the rhetoric of the right wing; just another example of capitulation.

    God I hate them and their MSM enablers.

  88. 88.

    Bob Loblaw

    @gogol’s wife:

    I would think it would be logical for him to want Democrats to win

    Democrats already won. That was the point of 2008. And that win came with expectations. And one of those expectations was that they would look to create a better system of remedying economic imbalances, rather than staying stuck in 20th century modes of supply side thinking.

    If you’re looking to make informed criticism of Democrats unacceptable until they have 90 seats in the Senate and control of 40+ statehouses, you’re basically making criticism of Democrats unacceptable forever.

  90. 90.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @stuckinred:

    Not watching huh? Self is a fucking choker. Listen to theses crybaby motherfuckers whine.

    Hell yes, I’m watching…and urinating in my panties while doing so, thank you very much.

    My god, VCU’s shooting is just on fire, and KU is ice cold, even from underneath the basket. Not a lot to be done in that situation. I’m just hoping for a comeback in the second half.

  91. 91.

    fasteddie9318

    Did I miss a Very Special Episode of Balloon Juice recently? I always seem to miss them.

  92. 92.

    ppcli

    @Corner Stone: It is a sign of how stacked the deck is in favor of the dark side that Obama’s “spread the wealth around” to Joe the non-Plumber remark got 24/7 saturation coverage on Fox, as a sign that Obama was an evil elitist socia.list who hated hard working people. Bush showing open incomprehension/contempt for someone who was working 3 jobs gets a day of play on left-wing blogs and goes down the memory hole.

  96. 96.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @stuckinred:

    31-17, fuckers need to be booing their team and not the refs!

    Stuck, could you please provide some background on your pathological hatred of my Jayhawks? Thank you.

  98. 98.

    stuckinred

    @Tim, Interrupted: In my opinion the Jayhawk Nation is right up there with Duke and Carolina in terms of arrogance. Now that doesn’t mean there are not some fine individuals who are die-hards but that is my experience.

  100. 100.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    @Bob Loblaw:
    .
    .

    Yes, the CEO of an multinational super-conglomerate that couldn’t possibly care less about domestic job creation and competitiveness is such an honest and upright choice to head a council on domestic job creation and competitiveness.

    In eleven-dimensional chess, this is known as a “bank shot.”
    .
    .

  102. 102.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @Bob Loblaw:

    Kansas fans and alums are entitled/spoiled and thought they were going to walk to another national championship. In what way was that unclear?

    Links, please?

    I am a Kansas alum and fan, and in no way thought the Hawks were going to “walk” to another championship. Why would anyone think that? They were ass kicked twice this season, and haven’t won a championship in three years.

    You’re projecting from a position of envy. Not attractive.

  103. 103.

    Dan

    What I can’t understand for the life of me is how much of the space on the op-ed page is wasted every single day on writers who don’t seem to appreciate the unique opportunity that they’ve been given to address the nation. Collins and Dowd are particularly to blame in this respect, in that they don’t even seem to take their jobs particularly seriously.

    Collins writes like she’s pitching political stand-up d material. Sarcasm has its uses but it seems to be the only method she knows.

  104. 104.

    4jkb4ia

    @Corner Stone:

    Dimon took Bear and WaMu off the government’s hands. Sorkin also reports that at the meeting of all the bankers on Lehman weekend Dimon was the self-proclaimed responsible one who encouraged everybody to work together and come up with a solution even if they knew how worthless/valueless Lehman’s assets were and that it could be any of them in a few weeks (especially Merrill).
    The Roger Lowenstein article in the Times Magazine portrayed Dimon as mediating between the enormous banker interest that he represents and the public interest. (He made a point to say that he was for universal health care and for most of Dodd-Frank, whatever that’s worth.) Sample quote:

    Dimon vigorously supported enhanced mortgage regulation but not a separate consumer agency to administer it; he backed more controls on derivatives, but not the aspect of the law that requires banks to set up a new subsidiary for certain types of derivatives. (That and other derivatives reforms could clip $1 billion from J. P. Morgan’s revenues a year.)

    Even if his bank invented the credit default swap, Dimon as CEO was careful about investing in CDOs and in subprime in general.
    Foreclosure fraud figures from the article:
    Chase has foreclosed on 224,000 homes, has modified 275,000 mortgages, and has suspended another 115,000 foreclosures. This would look like a rough balance between good and evil since you don’t know what those modifications look like.

  106. 106.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @stuckinred:

    OK, whatever. LOVE being a Jayhawk, and your issues with my school and team are yours to bear.

    Any chance you’re a Kansas State or Missouri fan? Just asking!

  107. 107.

    stuckinred

    @Tim, Interrupted: (Fanatic itself, introduced into English around 1550, means “marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion”. It comes from the Modern Latin fanaticus, meaning “insanely but divinely inspired”.

  108. 108.

    MattR

    @Bob Loblaw:

    Kansas fans and alums are entitled/spoiled and thought they were going to walk to another national championship. In what way was that unclear?

    Are you talking about the same Kansas Jayhawks that are known for choking/underachieving in the NCAA tournament?

  109. 109.

    stuckinred

    @Tim, Interrupted: So this is some big surprise to you huh? Two totally unrelated people on this blog share the same view of your team? I think it’s great that you support your team. I don’t like them, never have and never will. My best friend was a Michigan fan and there is no one I hate more than the Wolverines. It never impacted our friendship. Relax

  110. 110.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    .
    .

    The greatest “entitlement” of all is inheriting millions. No one with a trust fund has any basis to cry about “entitlements”.

    Also too, inheriting money means that you didn’t work for it, thus soiling and corrupting the vital Moral Fibre of America, as I so often hear the so-called conservative ownership class hypocritically hectoring the working class.
    .
    .

  113. 113.

    Bob Loblaw

    @MattR:

    And it never gets old.

    Why do you think people pulled for the likes of George Mason? Why did 95% of the country want Butler to beat Duke last year?

    Power programs are boring. Long live anarchy. Let’s see VCU-Butler in the Final Four. The college game is a shit brand of basketball anyway. The fun is in the “madness.”

  114. 114.

    Suck It Up!

    I’d like to point out that the jobs council doesn’t make law. It also contains two labor leaders and other CEO’s. It would also be smart to actually listen to and analyze what they had to say during their first meeting.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/advisory-boards/jobs-council/meetings

    Seriously, once upon a time councils and commissions were just bullshit pandering to a certain segment of voters now so many of you give them the same power as Congress and the President. The other oddity is screaming that certain bad actors have the president’s ear while ignoring the “approved” ones that also have access to him.

    Maybe I should be mourning what’s happening at the NYT. Lord knows I can’t get objective and completely factual reporting from the Left.

  115. 115.

    gypsy howell

    @gogol’s wife:

    See, now I don’t have any problem with the word “entitlement.” Because as far as I’m concerned, I worked my entire stinking life contributing to Social Security and Medicare, so I am damn well ENTITLED to receive the benefits I paid for, in the sense that I have a rightful claim on it.

    Every time someone uses the term entitlement in a disparaging way, I throw it right back at them – You’re damn right I’m ENTITLED to the social security program I paid into for all these years.

  116. 116.

    Bob Loblaw

    @Suck It Up!:

    I’d like to point out that the jobs council doesn’t make law.

    It doesn’t do anything. That’s the point. It’s all just a game.

    That’s what Washington does. Fake blue ribbon panels and cynical hand wringing.

  117. 117.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @stuckinred:

    So this is some big surprise to you huh? Two totally unrelated people on this blog share the same view of your team? I think it’s great that you support your team. I don’t like them, never have and never will. My best friend was a Michigan fan and there is no one I hate more than the Wolverines. It never impacted our friendship. Relax

    No, seriously, I’m not taking it personally…just toying with ya’allzzzz. BUT I’ve long thought it seemed really silly in adulthood to “hate” an entire school or its student body or its alumni…I mean in junior high maybe, but in later on not so much.

    As far as KU specifically goes, as was mentioned above, my Jayhawks have repeatedly choked in the NCAA tournament. Any win anywhere comes as sweet relief to me; I certainly don’t expect it. That, and the fact that you can’t get much more Midwestern/bland than the state of Kansas, it just surprises me that people other than KSU and Mizzou fans would waste their emotion hating us.

    BTW, LOVE KU and Lawrence; would even consider returning there to live someday. The REST of the state, very much not so much. Lawrence is an island of progressive in a sea of redneck.

  118. 118.

    Corner Stone

    @Bob Loblaw:

    It doesn’t do anything. That’s the point. It’s all just a game

    IMO, it does do something. It sets the limits of debate, and acceptability.

  119. 119.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @gypsy howell: I think, for some people the words entitled and entitlement carry a connotation of an undeserved expectation. We could just use rights. As in, I have a right to receive social security payments because I paid into it for all these years.

  121. 121.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @Corner Stone:

    Tim. If someone mentions “tits” or “boobies”, don’t respond.
    Just fyi.

    I was actually kidding about that, even before I knew they were allegedly chatting about BIRDS.

    It was my weak ass way of protesting ABL and JC’s arbitrary and inconsistent application of the new BANNING regimen here at Beejaytonia, which claims to aim to prevent sexist, racist, homophobic language, but which is extremely bogus.

    I’m all for the use of naughty words. They complete me. ABL is all for the use of naughty words by HERSELF, the way SHE uses them.

  122. 122.

    MattR

    @Bob Loblaw: There is a huge difference between rooting for the underdog (or rooting against the power teams if you prefer) and hating a team because they have a sense of entitlement. I generally root for the underdog. I hope VCU finishes off Kansas. But I don’t have any hard feelings against Kansas or their fans. There is nothing wrong with them enjoying the fact that they are fortunate enough to have a consistently good team, especially when they are not throwing that success in anyone else’s face. You really are acting like the conservative stereotype of a liberal – hating the rich just because they are rich and not because of anything they have done.

    @Omnes Omnibus: And that is perfectly acceptable. As is all Duke hating :-)

  123. 123.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MattR: I lived in Columbus, Ohio for 15 years, so when I hate on Buckeye fans it is entirely due to a familiarity with the group.

  124. 124.

    Cacti

    @Bob Loblaw:

    The college game is a shit brand of basketball anyway. The fun is in the “madness.”

    +1000

    The long shot clock and short 3-point line screw up the pace and the spacing of the game.

    The NCAA tournament is fun because single elimination guarantees that somebody will always lose earlier than they should/go farther than they should.

  126. 126.

    Bob Loblaw

    @MattR:

    Half the point of sports is to create artificial villains and enjoy their ultimately irrelevant demise. It’s just storytelling.

  128. 128.

    J. Michael Neal

    @Tim, Interrupted:

    Stuck, could you please provide some background on your pathological hatred of my Jayhawks?

    All of my ex-in laws are Jayhawks fans. That’s sufficient reason.

    Well, except my ex. She is a KSU alum, so there is at least one team I do root for Kansas to beat.

  129. 129.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @Bob Loblaw:

    Half the point of sports is to create artificial villains and enjoy their ultimately irrelevant demise. It’s just storytelling.

    That’s a good point. I”m also a big theatre geek, and many times I’ve tried to explain to sports fans and drama friends that the two have a LOT in common. Not to much avail, but I still think it’s true.

    All this said, I have lived in Boston for four years and a LOT of the Red Sox fans really do seem disturbed in their RS obsession. I’m not talking good natured interest in the games and outcomes, but people for whom the entire quality of their lives is determined by how the Sox did the day before. Seriously unbalanced.

  131. 131.

    stuckinred

    Yea and we smoke that kush
    That kush and we ball like swoosh
    Yea like swoosh
    Yea and we smoke that kush
    That kush and we ball like swoosh
    Yea like swoosh now how you like me now

  137. 137.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @stuckinred:

    “The greatest upset in tournament history”?

    I thought the same thing…but then, sportscasters aren’t generally known for the restrained nature of their hyperbole.

  141. 141.

    4jkb4ia

    I don’t really hate Kansas. I remember cheering for them in the Danny Manning days. Then in the days of Norm Stewart at Mizzou Kansas was the elegant and classy program. But I have been told to do so because it is Big 12 basketball.

  142. 142.

    J. Michael Neal

    @stuckinred: Penn over UNC in 1979. Actually, the entire East region that year was insane. The only game in which the higher seed won was the regional final, when #9 Penn beat #10 St. John’s.

  143. 143.

    Tim, Interrupted

    @stuckinred:

    Tell me what you think may have been bigger?

    Well, for one thing, the nose on that VCU coach.

    What do you mean, bitter?

    Ummm…I don’t actually claim to have a ready database of the entire past history of NCAA tournament upsets, but if you think it’s the biggest ever, that’s ok with me.

  144. 144.

    Tim, Interrupted

    I think I’ll be pulling for VCU the rest of the way. I like underdogs, except when they’re playing KU.

  145. 145.

    Church Lady

    Now, my only request left vis-a-vis March Madness is for Kentucky to be humiliated by Carolina. Anything to see Cal have to run his fingers through his greasy hair in frustration. My day will be made if that happens.

  147. 147.

    JPL

    My friend just told me that Shaka Smart was let go from Clemson last year as asst. coach. Hmmm. Although Clemson had a decent season with a new coaching staff, I gotta think some fans are wondering why they didn’t promote him.
    It’s nice to see such a neat coach make it to the final four.

  148. 148.

    OzoneR

    @cat48: .

    Yes, but if he used the bully pulpit, as he has been since before the election at least once a week or more “jobs focused” trip into a state of his choice; the rethug House would immediately release money for jobs & bailouts for the states. It’s simply not true that he hasn’t tried. He’s focused on jobs & education & Arab uprisings & Japan.

    If there wasn’t anyone to blame, then they’d have to face the reality that maybe the working class doesn’t want or is too stupid or proud to know that it needs help. Then everything they believe would be shot to shit.

    In order to really make your politics work, you have to first believe there’s a majority out there that wants them.

  150. 150.

    Bill Murray

    @Tim, Interrupted: I’d probably go with the 83 or 85 championship games, well really the Harvard-Stanford women’s game from 1998, but the discussion has been more about the Men’s tournament

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