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You are here: Home / Economics / Free Markets Solve Everything / When They Say Fairness, They Mean Tax Cuts for the Rich

When They Say Fairness, They Mean Tax Cuts for the Rich

by John Cole|  March 28, 201111:20 am| 69 Comments

This post is in: Free Markets Solve Everything, Fuck The Middle-Class, Fuck The Poor, Assholes

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I can’t figure out why anyone lives in Arizona anymore:

A Senate panel voted Thursday for a major revision in the state tax code that would mean lower bills for about 13 percent of Arizonans – and higher ones, on average, for everyone else.

The legislation, approved on a 4-2 party-line vote with Republicans in the majority, would replace the state’s graduated income tax structure with a single flat rate.

Preliminary estimates put that new figure at 2.13 percent. And that is lower than any of the current rates, which range from about 2.5 percent to 4.5 percent.

But to bring in the same amount of money as the current system, the plan would eliminate all deductions. That includes some big ones, like interest paid on home mortgages and charitable contributions.

And the exemptions from income that now exist for each person living in the home also disappear.

Rep. Steve Court, R-Mesa, who already has shepherded the proposal through the House, said the idea is fairness.

“This changes the way we look at how we tax income,” he said. “It also simplifies the process.”

Court said the idea of eliminating all those exemptions and deductions make sense “so that the government does not incentive how you spend your money and you don’t have a situation where a group of you all making $24,000 a year would all pay a different tax.”

But what Court called a “fair process” drew the ire of Sen. Paula Aboud, D-Tucson.

She pointed out the net effect is going to be a tax shift from those at the top of the income scale to those lower down. Figures crafted by the Joint Legislative Budget Committee conclude the break point is around the $100,000 range, with everyone below that paying something more than they do now.

He predicted that the average tax bill for those below $100,000 will be going up $200 a year. “It’s not going to be any excessive tax increase,” Court said.

Aboud bristled at that conclusion.

“Two hundred dollars to some people is a decider between food, medicine and a whole lot of things in these hard economic times,” she said.

I know that in these times of high unemployment, shrinking wages, budget deficits, and cutbacks in services across the board, the fiscally conservative thing to do is to cut taxes on the rich and shift the burden to those struggling the most. I wonder what Mitch Daniels, true fiscal conservative, would think?

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Reader Interactions

69Comments

  1. 1.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    March 28, 2011 at 11:23 am

    I can’t figure out why anyone lives in Arizona anymore:

    Arizona is supposed to be the dumbest state in the country.

  2. 2.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 28, 2011 at 11:24 am

    I really don’t see how this kind of thing is compatible with any vision of the United States that I was brought up with. What the F*ck?

  3. 3.

    Califlander

    March 28, 2011 at 11:27 am

    I lived in Arizona for a long time, and there are people there who would slit their own throats and use their dying breath to laugh at how much work the damned liberals will have to do cleaning up the mess.

  4. 4.

    Lee

    March 28, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Living in Texas I always counted on Texas taking stupid to 11.

    Then along comes Arizona.

    Apparently they neglected the one thing that makes a flat tax palatable.

    The minimum taxable income.

    I guess they want to run out everyone but the wealthy retirees.

  5. 5.

    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire

    March 28, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Finally! Once the great state’s producers and job-creators are freed from the shackles of their unfair tax burden, Arizona will metamorphose into an economic powerhouse.

    Of course some silly “Democrat” opposes this. We all know that Democrats only want to destroy all they see out of their deranged jealousy for their betters.

    Harrumph! Oh my, I seem to have mislaid my monocle…

  6. 6.

    cleek

    March 28, 2011 at 11:30 am

    a good politician never lets a crisis go to waste.

  7. 7.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 28, 2011 at 11:31 am

    These stupid sons of bitches like Steve Court are going to discover what true unfairness is, as the shotgun sings the song for them.

  8. 8.

    tavella

    March 28, 2011 at 11:31 am

    @Califlander: I lived in Arizona for a long time, and there are people there who would slit their own throats and use their dying breath to laugh at how much work the damned liberals will have to do cleaning up the mess.

    I really wish I could find the original of a quote about this. I’m pretty sure it was either Billmon or Gilliard, but it went along the lines of ‘there are a large number of people in the US who will happily live in a box under a bridge, as long the gay/black/liberal family next to them doesn’t even have a box.’

    It has explained so much of US politics for the last 20 years.

  9. 9.

    legion

    March 28, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Rich people don’t get rich by taking money from rich people – they get there by taking money from poor people. Rich people fight back.

  10. 10.

    My Truth Hurts

    March 28, 2011 at 11:33 am

    If you run out of food the solution is simple – eat the rich.

  11. 11.

    Zifnab

    March 28, 2011 at 11:33 am

    I almost half agree with removing all the various incentive exemptions. There is a lot of tax incentive to buy a house. I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not.

    The real problem in this revision isn’t removal of deductions, it’s removal of the graduated income tax. That’s just straight out greedy rich asshole legislation. Surprised they didn’t eliminate the income tax entirely and just go with a state-wide sales tax, like in Texas.

    8.25% added to every purchase!

  12. 12.

    Xenocrates

    March 28, 2011 at 11:34 am

    Oh, won’t somebody PLEASE think of the poor millionaires!! Why, they are all ready to walk out into the desert, rather than pay a few more pennies in taxes. What a colossal waste of money and effort. It is unbelievable that the poor slobs attending “Tea Party” rallies don’t really understand what they are fighting for.

  13. 13.

    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire

    March 28, 2011 at 11:35 am

    You know who had a fair tax system? France of the 1790s.

    Ah, the good old days.

  14. 14.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 28, 2011 at 11:40 am

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    That guy can’t be right, because he lists New Jersey as one of the top five smartest states, and it’s the state of utter mooks like Soprano and Christie…

  15. 15.

    Lee

    March 28, 2011 at 11:41 am

    @Zifnab:

    The state sales tax is IIRC 6%, your local government can add on a maximum of 2.25% (most do).

    Food is excluded from the sales tax.

  16. 16.

    Bethanyanne

    March 28, 2011 at 11:42 am

    I’ve long supported a flat tax, but on wealth instead of income. For some reason, conservatives stop thinking it’s fair at that point. It’s even in the Bible. Tithing was on wealth, not income.

  17. 17.

    shortstop

    March 28, 2011 at 11:43 am

    @Xenocrates: It’s not so much that they don’t understand as that they truly think they’ll someday be rich.

    In the meantime, they hate us more than they love themselves.

  18. 18.

    PeakVT

    March 28, 2011 at 11:45 am

    I can’t figure out why anyone lives in Arizona anymore:

    Everybody is underwater on their home and is unwilling (or unable to afford) to realize the loss.

    you don’t have a situation where a group of you all making $24,000 a year would all pay a different tax

    Why not just institute a head tax, then? That worked out great for the Tories in Britain. Please give it a try, conservatards.

  19. 19.

    gene108

    March 28, 2011 at 11:46 am

    @tavella:

  20. 20.

    gene108

    March 28, 2011 at 11:47 am

    @tavella:

    It has explained so much of US politics for the last 20 years.

    I think you meant last 235 years.

  21. 21.

    JCJ

    March 28, 2011 at 11:47 am

    @tavella #8
    Posted here I believe it was credited to Davis X Machina:
    “The salient fact of American politics is that there are fifty to seventy million voters each of who will volunteer to live, with his family, in a cardboard box under an overpass, and cook sparrows on an old curtain rod, if someone would only guarantee that the black, gay, Hispanic, liberal, whatever, in the next box over doesn’t even have a curtain rod, or a sparrow to put on it.”

  22. 22.

    Hungry Joe

    March 28, 2011 at 11:48 am

    From “Key Largo”:

    Frank McCloud (Humphrey Bogart): He knows what he wants. Don’t you, Rocco?
    Johnny Rocco (Edward G. Robinson): Sure.
    James Temple (Lionel Barrymore): What’s that?
    Frank McCloud: Tell him, Rocco.
    Johnny Rocco: Well, I want uh …
    Frank McCloud: He wants more, don’t you, Rocco?
    Johnny Rocco: Yeah. That’s it. More. That’s right! I want more!
    James Temple: Will you ever get enough?
    Frank McCloud: Will you, Rocco?
    Johnny Rocco: Well, I never have. No, I guess I won’t.

  23. 23.

    gene108

    March 28, 2011 at 11:49 am

    @Xenocrates:

    I think they do.

    What I read about the demographics of self-identified Tea Baggers is they are older than most folks, richer than most folks and are predominantly white.

    They know they’d benefit from this sort of shit.

  24. 24.

    Stefan

    March 28, 2011 at 11:50 am

    That guy can’t be right, because he lists New Jersey as one of the top five smartest states, and it’s the state of utter mooks like Soprano and Christie…

    Paul Krugman at Princeton brings up the average.

  25. 25.

    Stefan

    March 28, 2011 at 11:54 am

    In the meantime, they hate us more than they love themselves.

    Speaking of my ex-girlfriend, I really should give her a call….

  26. 26.

    Citizen_X

    March 28, 2011 at 11:58 am

    the break point is around the $100,000 range, with everyone below that paying something more than they do now.

    Feature, not bug. Every Fox News watcher in that demographic will get their new, higher tax bill, fail to connect it with Repub legislators, and start screaming, “We’re taxed enough already! Goldanged libruls! Always raising our taxes! Gubmint’s too big!”

  27. 27.

    DFH no.6

    March 28, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    Arizona is actually a fine place to live (I love it, myself), we’re just mostly ruled over by wingnuts, is all (with Mormons representing in greater numbers with greater power than the actual size of their demographic would suggest – been that way since territorial days).

    Said ruling wingnuts are mostly put into office by poor and lower middle class whites (most of whom are not Mormon, or even particularly religious) who vote against their own economic interests because they hate hippies (liberals) and resent people of color.

    Then there are the white retirees, who vote the way their demographic votes pretty much everywhere in the US of A (we just have a higher percentage of these folks than most places outside Florida). Both groups love them some Joe Arpaio, for instance.

    The recent 2010 teabagger tsunami only accentuated the wingnuttiness (bad all over, really bad here). Thus this flat tax nonsense, along with birther bills, a truly horrible slashing of state services due to the budget shortfall, more anti-immigrant bullshit, etc..

    When enough Hispanics decide that voting is important, things will change, and not before. It’s that simple, and I’m not sanguine about it in the short term.

    Supposedly the full AZ senate is going to vote the flat tax down, but I’m not so sure. The even-more-insane House already passed it, and Jan Brewer will sign it if it does pass the Senate.

    I’m fortunate enough in my job/economic situation that I’ll get a nice tax break if this passes. If the assholes I mentioned in the first sentence of my second paragraph above want to give me a tax windfall, and pay more themselves to do so because they hate hippies and brown people, then fuck ‘em.

    And yeah, I know that’s little comfort to those on the lower economic rungs who don’t vote wingnut, but the majority of such people just don’t vote, period.

    That’s the reality of AZ politics.

  28. 28.

    Max Peck

    March 28, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    The weather is nice.

  29. 29.

    kestral

    March 28, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    I can’t figure out why anyone lives in Arizona anymore

    I only live here because I don’t have a job/enough money to go somewhere else. Trust me, as soon as my studies are finished, I am leaving this place FAR behind me.

    Hopefully my parents will understand.

  30. 30.

    13th Generation

    March 28, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    @Califlander:

    I agree. All the hand wringing being done on the left about “why oh why do they vote against their own interests?” really just boils down to tribal loyalty. ANYTHING that pisses Dems off must be OK.

  31. 31.

    Origuy

    March 28, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    And a lot of people will blame Obama and Congress for raising their taxes.

  32. 32.

    shortstop

    March 28, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    @DFH no.6:

    Arizona is actually a fine place to live (I love it, myself), we’re just mostly ruled over by wingnuts, is all

    The second part of your sentence, in my experience, has a direct and significant impact on the first.

  33. 33.

    scav

    March 28, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    @13th Generation: Have to admit, I’m always a little baffled about the economic incentive always trumps all model of human behavior used a default on both left and right. It’s a freaking abstraction / simplification that make the makes the models work more easily (especially the mathematically expressed models) but it wasn’t originally meant to be the be-all and end-all goal for human behavior. Funniest still is how the crowd that most worships it as an idealized model of perfect human behavior (yes, I’m looking at you on the libertarian right) most depend on it not being so in practice to maintain their grip on power in a democracy.

  34. 34.

    Triassic Sands

    March 28, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    I taught for a while in New Mexico and we had a standing joke:

    Thank goodness for Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana.

    The idea behind that was that New Mexico ranked 46th-49th in all the desirable social indicators and 2nd-4th in all of the undesirables. So, if it weren’t for one or more of the above listed states, New Mexico would have been dead last or first, whichever was worse.

    And now along comes Arizona to dominate…

  35. 35.

    Mike in NC

    March 28, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    The legislation, approved on a 4-2 party-line vote with Republicans in the majority, would replace the state’s graduated income tax structure with a single flat rate.

    Have the US House Republicans introduced any national flat tax proposals to favor the wealthy and screw everybody else? Or is it just that they’re so busy lately trying to outlaw abortions, protect rapists, bust unions, repeal the minimum wage, and make English the official language that they’re starting to overwhelm themselves?

    Hell, if they took a month-long recess to recuperate at least they’d be apt to cause less damage to the country.

  36. 36.

    Hypnos

    March 28, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    It’s all explained here really:
    http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/

    These people are psychologically unable of accepting reality if it goes against their ideology. Their ideology is that Republicans cut taxes and Democrats raise them. You could take their paychecks and show it to them and they would still refuse to acknowledge the truth – not just to spite the liberals, but because they are mentally incapable of overcoming the cognitive dissonance and favour reality over ideology.

    This has been extensively tested. Right wing authoritarians are unable to think logically.

  37. 37.

    Brachiator

    March 28, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    I know that in these times of high unemployment, shrinking wages, budget deficits, and cutbacks in services across the board, the fiscally conservative thing to do is to cut taxes on the rich and shift the burden to those struggling the most.

    I think that Arizona should go for it. Representative Court is being surprisingly honest. His vision of “fairness” would see a decrease in taxes for the wealthy, and an increase in taxes for everybody else. This pretty much puts a lie to the simplistic fable that Republicans want to cut taxes.

    And if the voters go along with this, then they will truly have put fear above their own self-interest.

  38. 38.

    Silver Owl

    March 28, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    Gonna be interesting to watch the riots in AZ. Wonder if they were will regret arming everyone so readily?

  39. 39.

    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    March 28, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Those poor beleaguered rich folk, having to suffer such burdens while the lucky duckies on the lower rungs make out like bandits taking all the good stuff from society.

    Seriously, even if we can stave off the crazy nationally in 2012, I honestly can’t see much ever getting better now because the crazy has so hooked in on state-level as to be impossible to deprogram.

    @Silver Owl:

    Why regret it, when they can simply turn everyone around and get them to riot against the dirty brown folk that are obviously the real cause of everyone’s problems?

  40. 40.

    Triassic Sands

    March 28, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    In fairness to Arizona, it’s worth mentioning that more “liberal” states like NY and WA and the historically progressive WI are also busy screwing everyone but the rich.

    Democrats across the country and those in federal as well as state offices are all giving in and giving up often without a fight.

    No one should be stupid enough to think that a Republican politician will do anything for middle class or poor citizens. But increasingly, believing that a Democrat will at least put up a scuffle on behalf of the un-rich is delusional thinking.

    One amazing thing to me about the book “Winner Take All Politics” is that since its publication, instead of people reconsidering all the injustice and beginning to talk about remedies, the efforts on behalf of the wealthy have intensified pretty much everywhere and in both parties. So much so, that Andrew Cuomo can support a tax cut for the wealthy while simultaneously inflicting deep cuts for education and health care.

    We were once engaged in building a better society and we funded that in part by taxing wealthy people at rates significantly higher than those we imposed on the less well off. Now, we’ve given up on the idea of a better society and decided that the one great failing of the United States is that rich people don’t have enough. How did we get from there to here? And what sane society would choose such a path?

  41. 41.

    New Yorker

    March 28, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    I can’t figure out why anyone lives in Arizona anymore

    Scenery? Warm winters (at least in the central and southern part of the state)?

    I’m glad my summer vacation plans include visiting Washington, Oregon, and Northern California, so I don’t have to worry if my tourism dollars are indirectly subsidizing teh crazy.

  42. 42.

    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    March 28, 2011 at 12:53 pm

    @Triassic Sands:

    Again, it’s amazing how, after a decade proving the total counterproductive ineffectuality of Trickle-Down Economics, it’s not simply more ascendant as a philosophy than ever, but the absolute only economic philosophy allowed in politics at this point. It’s fucking galling, and sadly, impenetrable. There literally seems to be no fucking way to stop it anymore.

  43. 43.

    Dennis SGMM

    March 28, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    @The Political Nihilist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    Seriously, even if we can stave off the crazy nationally in 2012, I honestly can’t see much ever getting better now because the crazy has so hooked in on state-level as to be impossible to deprogram.

    The rot has set in everywhere. Social Security is now viewed as an entitlement, taxation is evil, and we dare not touch one dime of the defense budget lest we have to bomb the shit out of more third-world countries.

    Electing Obama was such a hopeful thing to me because he seemed to have a chance of shifting the dialog back closer to the middle. I was under no illusion that he would be able to create a liberal paradise. Now he’s looking at re-election and the dialog has shifted even farther to the right in the mean time. I’m not blaming Obama; the conservatives seem to have decided that it’s worth it to fuck up the whole country as long as the rest of us get fucked the hardest.

  44. 44.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    March 28, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    @Lee:

    Arizona has a large population of wealthy retirees. Usually they are behind the crazy stuff.

  45. 45.

    DFH no.6

    March 28, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    @shortstop:

    I hear what you’re saying, and being quite left-leaning in my worldview I would prefer if AZ politics were more like, say, Massachussetts or, I don’t know, maybe Vermont or something.

    But it’s not. Neither is most of the country, sad to say. The power, in AZ, and across America, lies mostly with the right, no matter how issues poll with the electorate (mostly on the more liberal side, as we well know). That’s the hand we’ve been dealt.

    I grew up (working class) in Ohio, but I’ve lived in AZ over 30 years. I just don’t see much difference in most things of import to people’s daily lives just because AZ is politically more rightwing. The wealthy have it nice; the working proles struggle but do ok, mostly, though not as well as they could if THEY STOPPED FUCKING VOTING REPUBLICAN (I don’t see that happening anytime soon), and racist assholes gotta be racist assholes. But that’s pretty much the case all over, not just in AZ.

    Hell, the trade (construction) unions even have significant sway here in AZ on pay scales and how work is done, even if they have little power at the state house.

    Plus the weather is great, and you can do stuff outdoors pretty much all the time. I was at a spring training game last week, watching my hapless Indians and basking in the sunshine while my relatives in Cleveland were still freezing their asses off.

    One recent “gift” from my AZ wingnut rulers that I appreciated was the removal of photo radar from the freeways. I drive safely but fast, and I hated the damn things. There’s the libertarian streak in me, I guess.

    Oh, and I can carry my .38 Special in my ankle holster just about anywhere now without needing permission (conceal carry without permit since last July).

    So, yeah, the state legislature is mostly clowns (and so’s the current governor) but I love it here nonetheless.

  46. 46.

    Brachiator

    March 28, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    @The Political Nihilist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    Again, it’s amazing how, after a decade proving the total counterproductive ineffectuality of Trickle-Down Economics, it’s not simply more ascendant as a philosophy than ever, but the absolute only economic philosophy allowed in politics at this point.

    Sometimes stupid ideas take root if they are simple and easily communicated, no matter how wrong they are.

    And here you’ve got trickle down without even much evidence of a trickle. It’s more that “a flat tax is always fair because everybody is taxed the same.” Outcomes don’t matter. And a flat tax is very close to people’s ideas of biblical tithing, so it not only must be good, it’s positively godly.

  47. 47.

    athena

    March 28, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    He predicted that the average tax bill for those below $100,000 will be going up $200 a year. “It’s not going to be any excessive tax increase,” Court said.

    I thought ANY increase in taxes was excessive?!!!!! I guess that’s only if you are a millionaire or more. The hypocrisy is just mind-numbing.

  48. 48.

    Bill Arnold

    March 28, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    @My Truth Hurts:
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau : “When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich.”
    The movie had its charms too.

  49. 49.

    trollhattan

    March 28, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    I’ve never understood how Arizona went from Janet Napolitano to Jan Brewer. Talk about whiplash.

    I do think prolonged exposure to extreme heat makes you stupiid, so even somebody moving their with half a brain will have a quarter brain after a few Phoenix summers.

    Speaking of angry addled white folk, the California redistricting process isn’t quite going the way they’d schemed when they passed their pet new process. If anybody was perplexed at the anti-immigration hysteria, wonder no more.

    http://www.sacbee.com/2011/03/28/3507915/california-redistricting-panel.html

  50. 50.

    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    March 28, 2011 at 1:56 pm

    @trollhattan:

    How did Wisconsin go from Russ Feingold to Ron Johnson, and end up with Scott Walker? How did Massechusetts end up going from Ted Kennedy to Scott Brown (well, aside from an abysmal Dem campaign there). How did Ohio go from Strickland to Kasich?

    Simply put, the Country abhors liberals enough to fuck over everyone as long as it can punch a few fucking hippies and ensure that anything libs like gets demonized as the worst sort of communism in the history of fucking ever.

  51. 51.

    scav

    March 28, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    @trollhattan: well, if “compromise” means “doing things the way we, the Repubs want” it should be clear that “Bipartisan” also means “doing things the way we, the Repubs want”. Shortest dictionary in the world those people have.

  52. 52.

    Stefan

    March 28, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    Oh, and I can carry my .38 Special in my ankle holster just about anywhere now without needing permission (conceal carry without permit since last July).

    Why is this considered a bonus rather than a terrible thing?

    And remember, if you can carry your gun everywhere, so can every ignorant drunk with a short temper and a small IQ. At least in New York I don’t have to worry about getting shot every time I get into an argument with someone on the subway.

  53. 53.

    shortstop

    March 28, 2011 at 2:23 pm

    @DFH no.6:

    the working proles struggle but do ok, mostly

    Well, no, they don’t. More than one-fifth of your state now lives in poverty, second only to Mississippi. And contrary to your self-soothing assertion that they all vote Republican and thus deserve what they get, a significant portion of your electorate regularly votes Democratic and still gets tangibly screwed on a daily basis by your Republican overlords.

    So the single phrase in your comment that actually considered whether Arizona with the GOP in power is really a “fine place to live” for people who are less well off than you — and less likely to find ankle holsters and radarless highways to be meaningful measures of their quality of living — was…flat-out wrong.

  54. 54.

    Triassic Sands

    March 28, 2011 at 2:34 pm

    @The Political Nihilist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    In America, stupidity apparently doesn’t breed stupidity, it breeds insanity. The Republicans have gotten there en masse without breaking a sweat, so the question is “What does insanity breed?”

  55. 55.

    Jess

    March 28, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    Is it irony or paradox, or just plain bizarre, that the many of the same people who are all for free-market capitalism and its supposedly rational system of people acting in their own best economic self-interests, are also the people voting against their own economic self-interests. Well, I suppose one of the characteristics of stupidity is being unaware of when you’re being stupid…

  56. 56.

    Triassic Sands

    March 28, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    @DFH no.6:

    I drive safely but fast…

    Oh, yeah, well I tell the truth, but lie.

    Apparently, you’ve never seen the statistics on speeding and accidents, but if you had, I suppose you’d argue they don’t apply to you.

    I imagine your kids all text while driving, but unlike other people’s kids, yours do so safely (assuming they exist).

  57. 57.

    Mnemosyne

    March 28, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Sometimes stupid ideas take root if they are simple and easily communicated, no matter how wrong they are.

    Ding ding ding. We are facing a whole boatload of very complex problems, and one party has been able to come up with simple catchphrases that make people think the problem is being solved when it’s actually being made even worse. Unfortunately, any attempt to explain that the “simple” problem can’t be solved with a simple solution (flat tax!) is tuned out by the electorate.

  58. 58.

    Corner Stone

    March 28, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    @legion:

    Rich people don’t get rich by taking money from rich people – they get there by taking money from poor people. Rich people fight back.

    Hence the reason Madoff is in jail but none of the bankster CEOs are.
    For Madoff, stealing wasn’t the sin, it was stealing from people with the connections and resources to snatch yo ass.

  59. 59.

    Berial

    March 28, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    I think the trouble with our country is that somewhere along the line it was decided that “money = speech”, when it should have been recognized that “money = ability to spread speech”.

    As long as money is speech, then the rich are going to be able to speak louder and louder every year that remains in effect until the only way to get anyone to hear you, if you are not rich, is violence.

    I’ve not done the math but if money = speech and the top 10% have over 50% of the money, what logically follows?

  60. 60.

    Omnes Omnibus

    March 28, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    @Berial: But violence would be conduct not speech, so there.

  61. 61.

    piratedan

    March 28, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    well with crap like that going on at the statehouse, now you get a glimmer why the Baja movement even exists. It’s like the reverse Ferris Buehler when it comes to describing the Arizona Lege, The Flat taxers, the charter school scam artists, the private prison leeches, the payday loan sharks, the racists, bigots, ideologues and the politically inept all love it here. They all think its a righteous state to live in.

  62. 62.

    tavella

    March 28, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    @JCJ, thanks! I’ve been trying to find the original for a while.

  63. 63.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 28, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    @The Political Nihilist Formerly Known as Kryptik: Angry and engaged minorities roll apathetic and distracted minorities all the time in politics. There was a time when the left was, at least some of the time, in some places, the angry and engaged minority.

    That was before the left (and do I ever miss Norbizness) discovered how tasty and nutritious a diet eating your own could be.

  64. 64.

    Davis X. Machina

    March 28, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    @tavella: I can die happy now, having been mentioned in the same paragraph as Bilmon.

    Seriously. I want to be Bilmon when I grow up, and I’m in my 50’s.

  65. 65.

    Jody

    March 28, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    I have friends in Arizona. They have informed me that overwhelmingly the response to this and the ensuing fiscal crisis will be “FUCK THE MEXICANS!!!!!”

    That’s generally Plan A, from what I’ve been told.

  66. 66.

    Calliope Jane

    March 28, 2011 at 6:18 pm

    @trollhattan: Why AZ went from Napolitano to Brewer? Although here I can safely “blame Obama” for picking her for Homeland Security Sec (why do Democratic presidents always take AZ’s good Democratic governors?), what really put Brewer over the top was SB 1070. The Attorney General (Goddard, Dem) was ahead in the polls before SB 1070, everyone thought Brewer was an idiot and was set to have a lot of primary challengers before SB 1070 (she is an idiot, but opportunistic…plus, she vacations with the Snowbilly so she’s learning some great tips. Fingers crossed one of them is “resigning before term is up.”).

  67. 67.

    DFH no.6

    March 28, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    @shortstop:

    Reading comprehension fail, Mr. (or Ms.) shortstop. I did not self-soothingly or otherwise claim “they all (emphasis mine) vote Republican and thus deserve what they get”. I made the very accurate claim that it is primarily poor and lower middle class whites who put Republicans in power, and do so against their own economic interests. It’s the unfortunate goddamn truth, and not just in AZ.

    Re-visit the quote in the comments from the inestimable Davis X. Machina regarding such people across our whole nation. It’s not just an AZ phenomenon, we simply have a fairly high percentage of these folks here (along with a large number of white retirees), therefore we get nearly constant wingnut rule.

    You earlier responded to my first comment, which my second comment was the sequel to, so I know you read that I also wrote:

    “I know that’s little comfort to those on the lower economic rungs who don’t vote wingnut, but the majority of such people just don’t vote, period”.

    That’s also the unfortunate goddamn truth, and I find it frustrating as hell. I’ve participated in Democratic politics my entire 30 years in AZ (canvassing, phone banking, donations, attending long-ass boring meetings, being a precinct captain, etc.).

    I’m well aware that there is a significant portion of the electorate in AZ (primarily in Baja AZ) who regularly vote Democratic – I fucking live here. I’ve talked to many of these people personally over the years. The portion just ain’t significant enough to move the state out of the solidly red camp (hell, we couldn’t get enough of them out to keep blue dog Harry Mitchell in Congress last year).

    And it won’t be significant enough unless and until the Hispanic community (who make up the lion’s share of those living in poverty here) votes in the same percentages as their white counterparts. Which they don’t.

    A girl can dream, but I am not confident that will change in the short term (SB1070 or not). As Mr. Skinner said, “Prove me wrong, children, prove me wrong”.

    None of this changes the fact that I love living in AZ, any more than the fact that the right wing has been the predominant political power in America for just about my entire adult life changes my love for living in the USA.

  68. 68.

    DFH no.6

    March 28, 2011 at 8:08 pm

    @Triassic Sands:

    I do drive safely but fast, whether you believe it or not.

    I’ve been driving for 40 years, logging nearly a million miles (and counting) in the process.

    And in that process, driving fast (but prudently) as I do, I have never caused an accident of any kind, not even a minor fender bender (I’ve had people run into me a few times, and successfully evaded even more who tried). Again, whether you believe me or not.

    I drive the way the competent drivers in western Europe do (ever been there? Significantly faster driving than in America, but done by people who, like me, know how to drive). I’ll take the freeways in France, or the Autobahn in Germany, or even the narrow, twisty but speedy country roads in the UK and Ireland, over anywhere in America. Because of the predominance of fast but competent drivers.

    So yeah, I’m aware of such statistics as you mentioned, but in fact, no, they don’t apply to me. My 40 years and million miles of accident-free driving are the statistics that count for me.

    It’s not speedy driving (alone) that kills and maims, it’s incompetent driving (which includes, of course, driving faster than reasonable and prudent for the road conditions, or the skill of the driver). American roads are full of such incompetent drivers, unfortunately. Fortunately for myself and those on the road around me, I’m not one of them.

    And since you dragged my kids into it for some reason, no, they don’t text while they drive. I taught them much better than that. My daughter is a 32 year old Air Force captain; my son a 29 year old bank manager. Responsible young people who aren’t quite as good at driving yet as their old man, but I got a lot of years and miles them. So I tell them to slow down a bit, which (so they say) they do.

  69. 69.

    piratedan

    March 29, 2011 at 3:57 am

    @DFH no.6: I also have to chime in and state that the roads out west are dramatically different than back east, not the “quality” of the roads, just that there’s a whole lotta empty between places out here. What kills people out here in growing numbers is drivers fatigue.

    @Jody: pretty much sums it up Jody, who do you think this tax is aimed at? poor folks with large families, it also (strangely enough) doesn’t do any favors to the Mormon middle class in the state, so I expect that it may have a tough time getting out of the Senate. Then again, if Vegas offered odds on betting against “teh stuupid” in the AZ lege, I’d keep my money in my pocket, tyvm.

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