Americans nationwide are evenly divided over the issue of same sex marriage. But Republicans in Mississippi are divided over a wholly different wedlock issue: interracial marriage.
In a PPP poll released Thursday, a 46% plurality of registered Republican voters said they thought interracial marriage was not just wrong, but that it should be illegal. 40% said interracial marriage should be legal.
I suppose one might suggest that my shock at this is bracing evidence that Mississippi Republicans have already moved the debate on interracial marriage.
Will Reks
14% undecided? So, more like 60% who think interracial marriage is wrong and should be illegal.
Evolved Deep Southerner
Are you really surprised? I’m not.
General Stuck
The monster never left the deep south, it’s just been dozing a while.
ruemara
People wonder why I have no interest in moving anywhere near the south. It sounds lovely, but only if I’m a white male of means or a white lady looking to be protected by said male.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
i would love to hear their thoughts on interracial gay marriages. because we could use a bracer like that to make us come together.
asiangrrlMN
I will admit it. I’m surprised it’s that high. But, I see it’s a poll of 400 people, so, I’m a bit skeptical as to the applicability to the state as a whole.
Villago Delenda Est
Yes, John, I suppose you might suggest that these results are “bracing” and “open up a dialog” on the entire issue of interracial marriage.
Of course, white male on black female sex was NEVER out of fashion…just the “actually blessed by the Almighty” part, ya know…
opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland
I was going to admit surprise despite my intense prejudice against the PTB in places like Mississippi and Alabama, but after reading asiangrrl’s comment I will reserve my admission of surprise and instead consider that it will help move the debate to more earnest grounds.
General Stuck
I lived in southern MS for 5 years in the 90’s, and on the surface, I didn’t see a lot of overt racism, but by the time I left, the just underneath the surface racial tension had gotten under my skin without me being all that aware of it, and I was glad to go.
Little things, like seeing a young white girl with a black male boyfriend in the supermarket, and the expressions of white customers and workers of disgust, like suddenly the devil itself had come inside. A sight anywhere else I’ve seen, was no big deal.
Martin
@asiangrrlMN: Given how perversely undiverse the Mississippi GOP is, a sample size of 400 probably is pretty accurate. About the only other variables they’re having to factor for is income, age, and gender. They’re all white, straight, McCain voters, drives a pickup truck, has a confederate flag. I guess single or double barrel shotgun might suss out some diversity.
asiangrrlMN
@opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland: Oh, yes. I am very grateful that we can at least discuss the viability of interracial marriage and whether or not it should be legal. I mean, it’s not like this country ever had a serious discussion about these matters.
@General Stuck:
@Martin:
So you’re both saying this is probably state-wide? I guess my second question is, how big is the Republican/Democratic divide in Mississippi?
ETA: So, I guess despite all my cynicism, I still haven’t completely killed the optimist in me. Sigh.
tkogrumpy
I have a hard time believing you didn’t already know this.
JenJen
This new meme is gonna rule. So many possibilities.
Also, Haley Barbour’s views on his experience growing up in Mississippi during the 1960s are bracing and evidence that he has moved the debate on race relations in America to earnest grounds.
I know this thread has nothing to do with Haley Barbour, per se, but it is my fervent belief he’ll be the Republican nominee in 2012. Bookmark it, Danno. ;-)
Valdivia
Love the new meme about this being a conversation starter. Instant classic.
max hats
Say what you will, but at least the people of Mississippi are taking an honest and brave stand. Let’s see what the democrats come up with – if anything.
max hats
I should add that when facing a deficit of this magnitude, can we afford NOT to be racist?
General Stuck
@asiangrrlMN:
MS has the highest black to white ratio pop in the south, or it used to, at around 40 percent black and 60 percent white. It is strangely divided, though most blacks are dems, many of them are religiously conservative. Almost all white are goopers, except in a place like Jackson, the capital.
I got to be friends with a black co worker working on the night shift, and he would tell me stories of certain places where clans, with or without a K, ran things, and black people still dare not go. We were in Biloxi, where there was an influx of outsiders moved in because of the cas inos. He told me that Biloxi wasn’t bad, but most places in the countryside, that were still segregated by neighborhoods, that blacks just stayed away from. But there really wasn’t a lot of racial violence like in the past. Mostly intimidation and simple segregation. But a tonload of tension, especially when I lived in Hattiesburg for about 6 months.
I think like maybe 9 or 10 percent of whites voted for Obama, and most of that was from Jackson or Biloxi, I bet.
Violet
Having read the bracing results of this poll, I feel on more earnest grounds already!
Martin
@asiangrrlMN:
White/Black
It’s about 60% white, 38% black, 2% everything else. The party breakdown is 48% GOP, 38% Dem. I’ll let you guess at the relative demographics of each of those two groups.
patroclus
Re-labelling Creationism as “Intelligent Design” is a bracing new way of looking at evolution and is evidence that Chrisitanists have moved the debate on scienc to more earnest grounds.
Villago Delenda Est
Do you think Sully is unlunkheaded enough to know how much he’s being mocked here?
Suffern ACE
@asiangrrlMN:
This may be a wedge issue that can be used by Dems to peel off some of those 40% of Republicans in Mississippi who…or not. I don’t think its worth unsettling what has been settled in this instance. Why the pollsters decided to go there is beyond me. Or is interracial marriage under attack and I’m just not aware of it.
patroclus
Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist Church’s views on homosexuality is a bracing new way of looking at sexual orientation and is evidence that they have moved the debate on equal protection to more earnest grounds.
TooManyJens
Mississippi Goddam.
Midnight Marauder
The Republican voters of Mississippi’s arguments against miscegenation are bracing and evidence that their proposals have already helped move the debate to more earnest grounds.
Martin
@Suffern ACE: This is a ‘motivate the base’ poll. Interracial marriage isn’t under attack, but if Republicans feel this way about that subject, imagine how the must feel about their tax dollars going to help black people?
hhex65
@max hats: FTW!
But 1st prize is a CSA dress sword, strangely enough…
patroclus
Tim McVeigh’s views on the federal government are a bracing new way of looking at federalism and is clear evidence that he has moved the debate on bombing day care centers to more earnest grounds.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
This looks like fun. Let me try it –
President Obama’s views on the assassination of American citizens without charge or trial have moved the debate to more earnest grounds.
Ya, fun!
.
.
patroclus
Ted Kaczynski’s views on technology are a bracing new way of looking at modern life and is clear and convincing evidence that he has moved the debate on mail-bombs to more earnest grounds.
Villago Delenda Est
Supreme Chancellor Palpatine’s views on the how best to negotiate with the Confederacy of Independent Systems have moved the debate to more earnest grounds.
Villago Delenda Est
Man, I could do this all night!
President Clark’s views on how best to resolve the issues raised by the secession of Babylon Five have moved the debate to more earnest grounds.
Patrick
Grew up just off the Mississippi border in Tennessee….This poll isn’t surprising.
kdaug
Hoo, boy, I think I may got a way to kill two birds with one stone here.
Why don’t we invite ol’ Sully to move on down to Jackson or Macon or Montgomery for a while. He can blog from there, and explain to the rest of ’em how they’re gonna need to take cuts to their benefits so they can give ’em to the rich Wall Street bankers.
I’m sure Sully would be reeeal popular in them parts.
patroclus
Muhammed Atah’s views on jihadism are a bracing new way of looking at religion and is clear and convincing evidence that he has moved the debate on the design of the World Trade Center to more earnest grounds.
Gus diZerega
The South is the only part of the country whose leaders explicitly rejected the Declaration of Independence. It is a permanent blot on the hopes and dreams of those who pledged their lives, fortunes, and sacred honor.
And for critics, I was born there so save me the usual bs.
asiangrrlMN
Damn. Now I’m depressed for the night–and just in time for bed. Night, all.
TooManyJens
Miss Teen South Carolina’s views on geography are bracing, and in themselves evidence that beauty pageants have already helped move the debate on education to more earnest grounds.
Townleybomb
Yeah, for those of y’all who have never lived in the Southland, all this poll is saying is that a whole lot of Southern republicans are pathological liars.
Villago Delenda Est
You-Know-Who’s bracing take on the meaning of the prophecy overheard by Severus Snape in the Hog’s Head have moved the debate to more earnest grounds.
Patrick
@General Stuck:
The largest counties that Obama carried in Mississippi were Hinds County(parts of Jackson), Washington County(Greenville), and Marshall County(Holly Springs).
Harrison County(Biloxi) voted 63-37 for McCain.
Minus Holly Springs, which is nominally part of the Memphis Metropolitan Area, and parts of Jackson, all of Obama’s support came from the poor, mostly black, counties along the Mississippi River.
Schad
Jeffrey Dahmer’s views on culinary matters are bracing, and in themselves evidence that his proposal on the edibility of human flesh has helped move the debate to more earnest ground.
BeccaM
Don’t forget: These numbers likely don’t reflect those who answered they were okay with bi-racial marriages — but who, in the anonymous privacy of the voting booth, would likely pull the lever in favor of criminalizing it again.
This is why civil rights ought never be put to a popular vote.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@ruemara:
I was offered a job near Shreveport (Vivian), LA back in the late 80’s. The wife and I went down there to check it out and left after two days, never to return. The job was mine for the taking and I told them that I would pass on it.
They can keep that shithole for themselves. I have no desire to ever return. None. The place reminded me of a very large and messy trailer park.
Citizen Alan
It’s your own damn fault! You took us back! You could have evacuated every slave and every free person who wanted to leave and then built a fence the whole length of the Mason-Dixon line to let the Confederacy stew in its own ignorance and hate. It’s like the parable of the scorpion and the frog. You knew what Mississippi was when you agreed to ferry it across the river.
Origuy
In Mississippi, the Overton Window has been shot out and is covered with Visqueen.
Jon H
Kinda wish they’d asked about black/white interracial marriage, and, say, white/asian.
I mean, we all know black/white is what they have a problem with, but it’d be nice to make it clear.
Yutsano
@Odie Hugh Manatee: There must be something in the water down there. Every taxpayer I interact with from Louisiana seems only interested in fighting every single point and arguing about how they don’t owe or don’t have to file. Amazingly enough, Mississippi is almost the total opposite. So it’s not the river.
Martin
@Jon H: Given that there are effectively no asians (1%) or latinos (2%) in Mississippi, I expect that wasn’t a variable at all.
Eric k
Asiangrrl,
A smaple size of 400 if screened for accurate demographic breakdown is plenty to be statistically significant.
You’d be surprised how small os a sample you actually need if the sample is selected correctly.
Completely random, like say a typical on-line poll is basically worthless since the respondents self select, but pollsters who do this professionally know what their doing. Even when you see a biased outfit like Rassmussen, they are very competent, it is just that they selecting the sample they want for the results they want.
Joey Maloney
@General Stuck:
For awhile in the oughties I was dividing my time between Mississippi and Hawaii. Hawaii, where something like 80% of the marriages are racially mixed, and at least a plurality of the adults have at least each parent if not all four grandparents of different racial background.
Talk about getting whipsawed. Every time I went back to the mainland I was mentally cringing, waiting for that first overt racist display. It never took more than a day or two.
It’s been years and I’m literally on the other side of the world now but I still wince if I overhear that mush-mouth southern MS white-guy accent.
Joey Maloney
@kdaug:
Well, he does have a real purty mouth.
keith
Gonna be fun when someone asks Barbour what – as a MS GOPer – He believes on the issue
Sarah, Proud and Tall
It was about 1984. It could have been 1985. Many things from that decade are a blessed blur.
Anyway, the club was still called “Studio 54” at that point. It was not quite so cool by then. Calvin and Brooke and Lauren had stopped coming, but Andy Fucking Warhol was still loitering around the men’s room like a fart in a bum’s trousers, white powder dribbling from every orifice.
It was one of those great nights you got every now and then at 54 where the atmosphere was like jello and walking was hard with the push and the crush of the bodies and the lights hit the beat every time and it was all just perfect. It may, I admit, have been the 3 grams of finest Bolivian that Keith had brought back from his little “trade negotiation” there the month before.
We were sitting on the stairs chatting to Gloria Vanderbilt. Well, I say “we were sitting chatting”, but Gloria was filled up to her eyes with special K and Keith had just hit the amyl in the bathroom with Andy, so it was basically me blathering to the air about rabbits while Gloria and Keith leaned against the bannister and grunted in unison every three bars or so.
On the steps below us was a crusty man who must have been 80 if he was a day. Tweed suit, knitted tie, shirt that belonged to his grandfather. The sort of man you look at and think, “Heavens, that man is so crusty, he must be an emeritus professor of political theory and philosophy”. He was obviously grooving on something really good, because his eyes were like caves and he was sweating like Rush Limbaugh at a fondue party and mumbling happily to himself.
With him was a young man. He was quite pretty in an English sort of way. Dressed as a mormon, by the look of it. He was babbling to the old man. “Professor Oakeshott, do you want a drink? Professor Oakeshott, do you want to sit somewhere else or are you comfortable here? I’m not sure if I’m comfortable here. Professor Oakeshott, are you happy here? Should we sit somewhere else? Maybe you want to stay here.”
Some of this got through to the old guy, because he looked at the young man and said, “It’s all fine, Andrew. Let’s just sit here for a minute and listen to the music.” Then he patted him on the hand and went back to listening to whatever that killer e was singing in his head.
Andrew sat there quietly for a minute and then said, “That’s the best idea ever. Let’s sit here and listen to the music.”
Another pause.
“This music is really good isn’t it. Do you like it? Maybe we could hear it better if we were sitting a bit lower. Do you want to sit a bit lower. Or maybe we should stay here?”
A long pause.
“Professor Oakeshott?”
Professor Oakeshott looked around, tried to focus, failed, grinned happily and said at the top of his voice, “Andrew, why don’t you and your catholic guilt and your pathetic need to please just fuck off and stop fucking up my drugs?”
Andrew looked at him for a full five seconds like a puppy whose leg has been chopped off. Then his face cleared and he smiled bravely and said, “Ok, if that would make you happy and what you think I deserve,” and wandered off, apparently quite happily.
Oakeshott hung around for a while then perked up, so we picked him up and danced with him for a while, and if I remember correctly he went home with George Michael, while Keith and I got stuck with fucking Andrew Ridgely.
I spotted Andrew later that night being told off by Oliver North for being a “limey poofter bastard”, then even later when he was cruising Andy in the downstairs loo, but Andy begged off, which I can say I never saw happen before or since.
What a strange little story. I don’t think it has a moral, unless you count “Some things never change”.
Joey Maloney
@Patrick: Marshall County isn’t really part of Memphis metro, not quite yet. DeSoto county, to the west and north of Marshall, right on Memphis’ southern border, is. It used to be rural, black, and heavily Democratic until the last ten-fifteen years. Then the white flight from Memphis overran the place and now it’s a suburban white-trash Republican stronghold. (Seriously, look at the census data. Between 1990 and 2000 the county population grew about tenfold.)
Emerald
I’ll be frank. I wish they would secede again. This time we should let them go. Apologies to good Southern folks here, but it really is a different country (I lived in GA for five years) and we should let it be one. Have a land-swapping plan for northern wingers who want to live in the sparkling new conservatopia and those who want to get out of it.
But honestly, I am ready to let the whole region go. It’s what they want anyway and it would save the rest of us scads of money and aggravation.
(Except for New Orleans. We get to keep that.)
Of course, if Obama’s re-elected, we may just get the chance to split. If he isn’t, then I want the chance.
Ozymandias, King of Ants
@Emerald: “Let them go?” If only–those fuckers want our tax dollars.
Secession (unfortunately) didn’t work, but there’s no precedent against expulsion, is there?
Seriously, could we actually kick them out of the Union?
AAA Bonds
@Martin:
Given what little I know about statistics, and what I do know about the population of Mississippi, the sample size is as good as any (past a certain, lower amount).
AAA Bonds
@Ozymandias, King of Ants:
Jokes like this are almost good enough for a muted chuckle until you realize that you’re using your privileged position elsewhere to chuckle over the idea of damning LGBT, black, Hispanic, poor, female, liberal, etc. people in these states to terrible oppression, because you don’t live there and so you think everyone who does is white and Republican.
Then you figure out quickly that this joke is not only tired and unfunny, but actually pretty depraved, especially and exactly in the context of these poll results, and considering the drastic obligations that liberals and Democrats elsewhere have to support progressive causes in these states, financially and otherwise.
But those people I described aren’t “real” Mississippians to you, are they? And they “can always move away”, presumably with all the money they have lying around in this kickass job market.
AAA Bonds
To be clear: we went to war to keep the Union together because the sniggering fools who said “let ’em leave” were ignored by nobler and more serious people, people concerned with law, justice, and the rights of others, people who remembered that the slaves were Southerners too.
That philosophy should guide Democrats today, or frankly, they aren’t worth shit to anyone. And if you still think “it’s not too late to let the Confederacy secede, is it?” is funny then I suggest you go down to Mississippi and tell that joke to some black folks who remember hearing Dr. King speak and see how they like it.
opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland
@Sarah, Proud and Tall: That was entertaining. Thank you very much.
opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland
@AAA Bonds: Applause.
AAA Bonds
@Emerald:
Ha, yeah, let’s help pay to cleanse the South of black families who’ve lived there for generations so they can come live next to you, where they REALLY want to live! Great jokes, killer!
Let’s get those Hispanic people to move out of the houses they bought with the money they earned in the towns where they vote and go to church and their kids go to school because they’re not in any way tied to their home state, they sure don’t view themselves as just as much Mississippians or Georgians or whatnot as the WHITE people there. They’d be crazy if they did that!
You’re a laugh riot, man, a real knee slapper. I can tell that those five (FIVE!) whole years in Georgia have educated you top to bottom about the South.
AAA Bonds
@opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland:
Thank you. I am just nonstop riled by that sort of foolishness, and it’s all over blogs like this one.
Joseph Nobles
@Sarah, Proud and Tall: “sweating like Rush Limbaugh at a fondue party”
Mercy. I just about sent a mouthful of carrot cake all over the 24/7 coffee shop on that one. Brava!
Anne Laurie
@AAA Bonds: Okay, how ’bout we collect all these fine, upstanding Bubba Haleys and Huckabees and ship them off to their “ancestral homeland” in the Caucasus? Land’s probably almost as cheap in Chechnya or Ossetia as it once was in the part of West Africa that’s now Liberia. Heck, if we plan it right, they can still call themselves Georgians!
‘Course, whether the current Caucasian natives would actually let them keep the land once the latest batch of warlords lost interest… well, that’s what all them Second Amendment icons are about, right? An armed society is a polite society, so they say!
Pat
Luckily for the country, what happens in Mississippi usually stays in Mississippi because the rest of the country don’t want to own it.
To Mississippians, racism is like a warm gun.
Xenos
@AAA Bonds:
I would gladly pay a significant tax to generously compensate any poor soul who wanted out of Jebustan. As for the next generation of gay kids of jebustanis, maybe we could give them favored status under our refugee immigration laws. And women, too, who want to leave.
After a couple generations it won’t leave too many people. After the financial collapse of Jebustan they can settle their debts by being colonized by the US, at the price of them giving up all the land taken from the Cherokee. The crackers who don’t like it can walk to Oklahoma.
lllphd
um, no; this is simply where they’ve slid to after all these years.
(i say that without data from recent decades, but this is right where i’d put most white miss’ippi folk).
NYT
I’ve never lived in America but I’ve watched a lot of American TV shows and American films.
And unless the show is specifically about interracial marriage/dating I’ve noticed you virtually never see a white person dating a black person.
White with an Asian – ok
Black person with an Asian – ok
White with a black person – never.
Even in shows aimed at young (teenage/twentysomething) audiences I think this is true
alwhite
@Villago Delenda Est:
SATSQ:
NO
.
While it sure would make the country a better place if the good ‘ol CSA got the boot (and took a couple of the cowboy states with them) I suppose it wouldn’t be fair to the innocent people that live there. All that hate and bile spewing from there onto the entire country would be concentrated on so many fewer.
But the worst part would be sharing a land boarder with a banana republic. Unable to support itself in any reasonable way they would first cause a refuge crisis and then, ultimately, be largely dependent on US foreign aid to survive. Just like now only worse.
SFAW
alwhite –
I think you’re over-worrying:
1) The “innocent” or rational persons could be subsidized by the US Government for their pulling up stakes from Dumbfuckistan and “resettling” (I’m sure there’s a much better term, somewhere) in the US.
2) Those who support the mindset of Dumbfuckistan would be “encouraged” to move there. Kinda like reservations, except that unlike the Injuns, these imbeciles deserve to be treated thusly.
3) Build a tall, strong, and armed perimeter, designed to keep them IN Dumbfuckistan, and OUT of the newly-rational US.
4) Cut off all aid/benefits/what-have-you to Dumbfuckistan.
Those assholes still believe in the Lost Cause? Fine, live out your dreams, you stupid mofos. That’ll work for about 15 years. Then, they’ll end up having their own latter-day Civil War, kill each other off, thus leaving the US free to reclaim the land and set it back on the path of rationality.
And as far as “forced” resettlement for the innocents, think of it this way: you know a tsunami is heading your way, will arrive in a year, and will wipe out your world as you currently understand it. Then someone says “Listen, you can have a significantly better life, all you need to do is move to the higher ground of Rational USA. But you gotta let us know in the next 60 days. You say yes, we’ll take care of the rest.” Do you choose to die on that suddenly-not-so-tall hill? Or do you realize the hill is just a place, and take care of yourself and your family?
RSA
When I saw this result I looked at the report, suspecting that there might have been a huge imbalance of opinion between young people and old people. It turns out that younger people were slightly undersampled (18- to 29-year-olds were only 12% of the sample), but 54% of them thought interracial marriage should be illegal, almost the same as the 56% of the over-65s. Good God.
salacious crumb
I dont think this is limited to MS Republicans. They may be more open or more overt in their views, but I think the disgust (especially when it comes to white ladies dating men of minority background) is even apparent in the North, subtle as it may be. And I think it transcends education level and various labels of liberalism. The ones most comfortable with interracial dating are the ones most exposed to the outside world or ones who have lived in inner city neighborhoods
SFAW
Yeah, except in the North, “mixed marriage” means one between an Irish Catholic and an Italian Catholic, or between a Catholic and a Prot.
Benjamin Cisco
Spent half my childhood just across the border in Alabama. And yes, we were damned grateful that we weren’t Mississippi. Haven’t lived there since graduating from college, and wouldn’t go back on a bet, but the attitudes portrayed in this poll constitute an IMPROVEMENT from the time I was there. THAT IS DEPRESSING.
jinxtigr
…what.
o_O
Bob
Remember the rationale for getting into Iraq based on lies…which are what the Heritage numbers are. Someone should call them out on that. Paul’s numbers are partisan lies designed for the echo chamber. Heritage probably never thought he’d actually…use them.
But it’s a good starting point for discussion on why we we’re going to invade Iraq! Because if we don’t, the terrorists win.
Lavocat
More’s the pity that these fine specimens of the species weren’t polled as to their no doubt equally enlightened views on lobotomizing and sterilizing the poor, converting the savages to The Almighty, and gassing the mentally and physically infirm.
Or, as my old man much more colorfully puts it: Jesus H. Fucking Christ on a Popsicle Stick!!!
Trinity
I am black. My husband is white.
My sister is black. Her husband is white.
My niece and nephew are (as you may guess) of mixed race.
What fucking year do they think it is in Mississippi?? Jeebus. It pains me that we are even addressing this as an issue.
greennotGreen
I, too, live in the South, but a part of the South that’s thankful for Mississippi so we can have a state we can be better than. And I’ve toyed with moving to the Pacific Northwest when I retire, but I’m tied to the land. It’s beautiful here.
If all the progressives leave, we’re just giving up. I’m going to stay and fight. Maybe I’ll live to see Tennessee turn purple to violet to blue. Maybe I won’t be able to do anything other than teach critical thinking to a few young people so they don’t follow in the footsteps of their ignorant parents. It might not change the whole state, but it would make a world of difference to those few young people.
You know, China permanently claimed Tibet by flooding it with Chinese. Why don’t you non-Southern liberals come on down? Maybe we can neutralize the yokels’ votes by dilution!
Rook
So, you’re going to have to add “A Place Of Bracing Debate” in your rotating tag lines.
BrianM
It’s bizarre that the question about interracial marriage is the only policy question in the poll. Ideas about why?
General Stuck
@Patrick:
That makes sense, though without checking I would have thought Harrison county and the rest of MGC would have had more votes for Obama because of the Cas ino population growth there.
El Cid
Davey Dave Brooks is now at the same promotion level of the Ryan plan as was noted for Sullivan:
There are enough rich people to pay for huge chunks of things like Medicare.
Usually, though, they wouldn’t be taxed in advance for trillions of dollars of future costs all at once, even if the largest of increases on income and capital gains and financial transactions were to be put in place.
No bother. You’re only serious if you’re willing to tell aging Americans they need to learn to grow old more cheaply.
After all, taxes are a huge and painful burden on the wealthy, and all because you parasites have been coddled by cowardly Democrats.
Thankfully I only see such idiocy when I stumble onto it on the Opinion pages by going to read Krugman or such.
Omnes Omnibus
@greennotGreen: I can’t leave my current state. Wisconsin is too purple right now for it to be safe for any liberal to leave. Also too, the heat and humidity would kill me; I spent four months in southern Georgia at one point and that was enough.
Chris
But please do remember, there is ABSOLUTELY no overlap between the racists of the civil rights age (aheh heh, everyone knows they were Demmycrats!) and the homophobes of today, and therefore no comparison to be made.
WereBear
@BrianM: Because everything since 1964 has been about The Racial Issue.
The radical idea that those of African-American heritage are people too… that really blew a bunch of minds. And the ripples are still in effect.
Note the devolution of the Republican party, once a champion of human rights, into The Racist Party, pure and simple.
With the crazy billionaire subsidized Tea Party, Hate isn’t just an emotion, it’s a political stance.
And all else keeps flowing from that.
SFAW
Actually, I think Rethug hate pre-dates the Kochs, Scaife, Olin, and the rest. Not by much, but still …
Chris
@salacious crumb:
This isn’t about dating, but it is about race relations in the North, told me by a friend from a union family in Pennsylvania.
Apparently, a little while ago there were people who wanted to build a WalMart in the area. A bunch of people (including her and her folks) were really, really opposed to the idea, because they were afraid of it driving prices down and subsequently running all the mom-and-pop stores in the area out of business. But they were outweighed by the number of people going “Yeah! Cheap everything! Yeah, totally give us a WalMart!”
The anti-WalMart crowd wasn’t making much headway, until one person stood up and said, “you realize, the minute you build a WalMart, *these people* are all going to flock here.” And sat back down. Nothing more was said, but the argument ended there and the WalMart was never built.
Gin & Tonic
@El Cid:
This part, at least, is undeniably true.
Chris
@greennotGreen:
Isn’t that what we’re doing? I’ve heard that increasingly, the Yankees moving down to the Sun Belt bring their politics with them instead of adopting the GOP-Now-And-Forever ones. Between that and the Hispanic immigration…
Chris
@SFAW:
Rethug hate goes back to the Gilded Age. The GOP’s base back then had the same arrogance about being “The Only Real America” that they do now. It’s just that back then, Real America was rural, white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, and Northern or at least non-Southern… and Southern whites were lumped in with urban immigrants as enemies of the people. (The Republican slogan of the time called the Democrats the party of “Rum, Romanism and Rebellion”).
ppcli
@asiangrrlMN:
Well, 400 people isn’t a huge sample, that’s true. But a bit of depressing corroboration is the referendum in Alabama in 2000 to remove the anti-miscegenation entries in Alabama’s constitution. (Long ago ruled unenforceable.) The referendum passed 62%-38%. So 38% of all Alabama voters thought an unenforceable anti-miscegenation law should be kept on the books.
loretta
Evidence that Ryan’s proposals are fantasy: I’m on every major insurance company’s email list and I haven’t received a *single* email endorsing this budget plan.
And when AHIP likes something (or hates something, like the ACA), you hear from them daily.
This deafening silence from Big Insurance is telling. No way do they want to create products for medicare members other than Medicare Advantage (which is very low profit and might just go away) or Med supps that they get millions in monthly premiums and only have to cover 20% of services.
Therefore, it’s a non-starter and doesn’t merit any serious discussion.
Mandramas
I’m still surprised that “Race” was a designation on some US Census. How can somebody have a legal stance on this? “Race” is a sociological construct based in very shallow phenotypes, it is not a fixed trait that can be determined.
salacious crumb
@Chris: ok fine… I was using dating as an example, but yes I agree with you.
Balconesfault
I want to see Mississippi pass an anti-miscegenation law … and I want to get to see Justice Thomas vote on it!
salacious crumb
@Chris: but may I also add that there is an assumption made that the so called liberals are down with the mixing….I dont believe that..I have seen far more open mixing and marriage within the churches of some of these Southern states (and even Northern), which we liberals tend to demonize…why..because being religious is so out of fashion and because Bill Maher says so (Im not defending the church tho)…just making an observation…about mixing in the South
salacious crumb
@Balconesfault: he would vote in favor…he would be offended if you called him black
Chris
@salacious crumb:
Oh, I know. I was just prefacing my story by saying it wasn’t about dating, not saying anything about the overall argument. Sorry for any misunderstanding.
And sticking to your example – the same friend claims she could bring most any guy home, but not a black one. Her family wouldn’t mind, but the neighborhood would.
So, it’s a nationwide thing, to a greater or lesser extent… My pretty and sheltered suburbia had a few people like that too.
DB Main
There’s something weird about this survey. In the crosstabs (page 10), the segment with the highest (55%) response about the illegality of marriage was the self-identified “Very Liberal”.
That seems to me to indicate that:
a) The respondents didn’t really know what they were answering, or
b) (joke) The “Very Liberal” segment were blacks who think it should be illegal for blacks to marry whites.
Chris
@salacious crumb:
I’d maintain that interracial marriage is more likely to be kosher in liberal environments than conservative ones, as a general trend.
But yes, there are plenty of counterexamples too. The fundie church down the street from my college: can honestly say it’s as racially integrated and diverse a place as I’ve ever seen in my life (interracial marriages galore, beginning with the pastor).
SFAW
There a Sammy Davis, Jr. reference lurking somewhere in there …
Balconesfault
@DB Main: Frankly, I’d consider it a joke if any significant number of Blacks in Mississppi were to self-identify as Republicans…
jwest
I believe if you ask, you’ll find the demographic most opposed to black men marrying white women would be black females.
BrianM
@BrianM: From twitter: “maybe that Poll Q is not a policy Q but demographic Q, as proxy for ‘Are you still a racist?'” Which might conceivably be of interest in a Southern Strategy kind of way.
Mr Stagger Lee
I think Mississippi will join the 21st Century sometime in the year 2386.
TooManyJens
@DB Main: If I had to guess, I’d say the number of people describing themselves as “Very Liberal” in a group of 400 Mississippi Republicans is going to be so tiny that no meaningful conclusions can be drawn from that subsample.
Also, in my experience, many Republicans don’t even know WTF liberal means. So who knows why these people are describing themselves that way. 23% of the “Very Liberal” respondents are supporting Sarah Palin, for fuck’s sake.
Paul in KY
@General Stuck: Where does Hattiesburg end & Biloxi begin?
I lived in Biloxi for 8 months back in 1982. Not a bad town, military people made it more ‘liberal’. When the military makes it more free-wheelin, you know you’re in a conservative area.
Used to frequent a sub shop right out the West Gate of Keesler. Had the most beautiful black lady who worked there. If I hadn’t been such a weenie, would have asked her out. Hope she’s doing fine.
Edit: Back then Biloxi/Hattisburg was known as the only town that’s 25 miles long & 2 miles wide.
Paul in KY
@greennotGreen: I don’t do enough good drugs to imagine Tenn turning blue. Same for KY, it seems.
greennotGreen
@Paul in KY: So, apparently the ones I did back in the day were sufficient.
Paul in KY
@greennotGreen: Evidently ;-)
opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland
@NYT: The Chicago Code. It’s a cop show, the niece of the star is dating her AfAm partner.
opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland
@greennotGreen:Not every area of the Pacific Northwest is a liberal paradise. The West Coast is blue but mostly* to West of the I-5. East of it, pretty much red, anywhere from reddish lavender to red lipstick red. I live slightly East of Seattle and the I-5 and I think my new neighbors are Republicans of the low information sort.
*Orange County and San Diego county are to the West of I-5 and both are pretty red.
Tsulagi
Damn, even for MS find the numbers a bit surprising. Not just disapprove or find repugnant, a majority of Miss Goops think there should be laws actually banning interracial marriage.
No doubt good Christians all. Spreading the good word that all are equal before the Lord….as long as their skin color matches when up on the wedding altar. Good to see they got their family values straight. And white. And stupid.
Chet
@salacious crumb: I’d go even further and say I don’t think it’s limited to white people. I’ve lived in suburban Detroit my whole life, and have seen and heard plenty of racism around here in varying degrees of overtness, but the only person I’ve ever known to openly condemn interracial relationships was a black female coworker of mine.
Caz
Obviosuly, prohibiting racial marriage would be uncontsitutional. But I can understand certain religious points of view that people should marry within their own race. But aside from religion, I don’t see this issue as politically relevant, appropriate, or impending.
I have no idea why these pollsters even thought this would be a good idea to poll on. It promotes nothing positive, sheds light on nothing relevant to our current political or economic debats/problems/issues, and does nothing but stoke the fires that we’ve been trying to put out since the mid 1800’s.
Other than the poll and this blog entry on the subject, I doubt we will hear anything else about this.
But why some of you seem to link this to the republican/democrat divide is beyond me. I guess the liberal ideology is that republicans, as a rule, are racist, and that any republican who isn’t racist is an exception to the rule.
Racism is present throughout our society, and it will never completely go away, but it has nothing to do with political party affiliation. There are plenty of racists, both democrat and republican. Wasn’t Byrd in the KKK? Is there a comparable republican in such a high position in government today that has a similar degree of racism? I think not.
This is not a political issue and has nothing to do with republicans and democrats. It’s an issue in parts of Mississippi (according to this poll), so let’s just leave it at that. I’m sure there are black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods in Mississippi that the other doesn’t feel safe going into. It’s just a state that has held on longer than others to the segregation culture. Most states (and people) in this country have moved on, and racism isn’t a poweful force in this country anymore. Racism has become the exception to the rule in the U.S., and to whatever degree it still exists is probably residual and probably permanent. There’s a baseline of racism that will always exist, and I think we are at that baseline now.
Racism on both sides (or, I should say, “all” sides), is ignorant, and the majority of Americans, both republican and democrat, agree.
I still can’t believe they would poll on this issue. What they thought was to be gained by such a poll is beyond me.