The entire premise of Boehner’s lame-ass negotiations last week was that he couldn’t craft a compromise unless it included 218 Republican votes:
A senior Senate Democratic aide tells me that in today’s private meeting at the White House, Speaker John Boehner signaled to the President and to Harry Reid that Republicans were not willing to support any budget compromise that can’t garner the votes of 218 Republicans in the House. That would be a break from the GOP’s previous posture: Republican leaders had appeared willing to reach a deal that could pass the House with Republican and Democratic support, even if it meant losing some Republicans.
The vote for the budget was today, and guess what? He didn’t get them:
With the help of 81 Democrats,the House passed legislation Thursday to fund the government through September and avoid a government shutdown. Fifty-nine Republicans defected from GOP leadership, leaving Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) woefully short of the necessary majority to pass the bill without Democratic help. The final vote was 260-167.
The fact that Boehner needed nearly 40 Democratic votes to pass the resolution and avoid a government shutdown was a stunning blow to his leadership, especially after he shut House Democrats out of budget negotiations and just a few days ago dismissed the need to secure any Democratic votes.
I eagerly await the multitude of Beltway stories about the Republicans being in disarray, Boehner being a weak leader.
And Democrats, please note- the next time that Boehner trots out that “I need an agreement that 218 R’s will vote for” simply respond- “Since when will they listen to you?”
Captain Haddock
This is good news for John McCa…
…ah never mind.
Elia Isquire
I’m sure there’s a tag somewhere at Red State that reads: “BOEHNER IS WORSE THAN BUSH HE SOLD US OUT ! ! !”
Spaghetti Lee
Orange crushed.
E.D. Kain
Yes, but did he cry?
Bokonon
No, no, no … didn’t you get the memo? Republicans are always tough and resolute and calculating and victorious … and Democrats are always in retreat. After all the drama, you mean that Boehner got beat by Obama and Reid, and Boehner’s caucus is deserting him? Or outright fragging him? That doesn’t fit the paradigm at all! Get on the right page.
I think the Tea Baggers are feeling their strength (or picking up their cues from right wing talk radio – they hated this deal). And Eric Cantor has a lean and hungry look these days.
Bob Loblaw
This presumes that House Democrats have ever been allowed to matter in the first place.
The events of 2009-2010 would seem to disagree.
/Still can’t believe the Republicans didn’t secure some sort of poison pill in the agreement just to piss off liberals. They really were just going to shut down the government just to prove they could…
geg6
This guy is just laughable. I don’t understand why the hell DougJ is so afraid of him (and, seemingly, of Donald “I Like the Blacks” Trump, but that’s another matter). He’s the weakest ass GOP Speaker in my lifetime. And that’s quite a long time.
Judas Escargot
One of the chief tenets of business: Once you do agree to something, you must honor that agreement, or people will stop trusting you very quickly, and you won’t be in business for very much longer.
For the so-called “business party”, the GOP should know this. Yet they apparently don’t.
El Cid
Given that the deal is not popular among the teatards (i.e., the Republican Party as it’s been for the past couple decades), isn’t it better to make Democrats have to vote for it too?
Nancy Pelosi did that with the first vote on TARP, when Republicans assumed that Democrats would pass it with enough numbers such that Republicans didn’t have to. They thought they were going to pin the TARP on Democrats. But Pelosi was smarter and tougher, and the first vote failed because the Democrats were only providing enough votes that it would fail without a majority of Republicans voting for it too. And the GOP shit their pants as its favorite centi-millionaires and billionaires started calling. The 2nd vote, enough Republicans voted for it. Of course, you have to have enough memory to recall that TARP passed under Bush Jr / Paulsen rather than Obama & ACORN blowing up the economy and then giving free money to ACORN and GM.
kindness
Is this a preview of what it is going to be like to raise the National Debt ceiling?
Triassic Sands
Speaking of Republican leadership (oxymoron), I just read that Man On Dog Santorum has joined the Republican race for president. There was a time when Santorum would have really stood out, but now he just disappears into a field of lunatics and idiots.
Ego is a bizarre thing. Why on Earth would Santorum believe for even a nanosecond that he has any chance to get the nomination? Ego. What else?
I’d say that never before has so much ego been wasted on such a minuscule talent, but then there is Palin, Bachmann, Gingrich, and on and on and on and on…. Oh, did I forget Trump?
Dennis SGMM
It’s just possible that Boehner wanted the budget debate out of the way so that he work some real fuckery on raising the debt ceiling. The stakes there are a lot higher and failing to raise the ceiling would be catastrophic.
Just sayin’.
gnomedad
@Bob Loblaw:
Not sure what my point is, but fixed.
Cermet
Talk is always cheap – like the 4-sale sign on every thug’s soul; however, the fact remains as speaker, Boner… I mean Boehner delivered a budget to the senate so Obama can sign it- at least you can work with this guy; he sure isn’t a newt.
Murc
Wait, you think this was an accident? Really?
Boehner didn’t get to 218 because he can’t control his caucus. He didn’t get to 218 because he legitimately didn’t care about getting to 218.
Seriously. Boehner is actually, you know, a good negotiator and a good politician. Setting an arbitrary of number of Republican votes he ‘has to get to’, if your opponent is dumb enough to accept the premise (or accepts it for other reasons) is a great tactic. It moves the acceptable final options closer to your side and gives you another cudgel to wield. And once you have a deal, and you know the other side will vote for it, why bother sending your Whip out there to twist arms? You save him for when you need him.
I can guarantee you that an hour after this deal was struck, Boehner was telling the Tea Partiers ‘No, no, you guys can vote however the hell you want and then take that vote home to your constituents. We’re gonna get between forty and sixty Blue Dogs, and I think that’s lowballing it. Yeah, I know, they’re idiots, right? Hell, you can even run lines about how ‘even Democrats’ were willing to stand firm with you on spending, if you like. Now run along, you scamps.’
I do agree that the next time Boehner brings this up, the proper response is to call his bluff. ‘You either can’t or WON’T get to 218, John. So you can negotiate from that position all you want, but we won’t take it seriously. We, on the other hand, actually CAN deliver votes.’
JGabriel
@Bokonon:
We used to that look: consumptive.
Sarah, Proud and Tall
I know some of you like my little stories, and so usually I post them into a thread which is vaguely relevant for your delectation and edification.
I was reading ABL’s latest (last?) and was reminded of a little anecdote involving Bill Donohue, but when I came to write it down I got a little excited and it ended up being a couple of pages long.
As such, I don’t want to dump it all over this thread. I hope our gracious host will forgive me, therefore, if I blog whore a little.
Please click here if you would like to read my little story about Bill Donohue and the laxatives in the fruit cake.
I do hope you enjoy it.
GregB
He’s up! He’s down! He’s back up again!
Looks like someone pulled a Boehner.
Breezeblock
Boner’s a dick.
Dave
So basically the House is Thunderdome at this point? Any whackjob bill will pass with 218 votes but die in the Senate. And any reasonable bill will need Democratic votes to pass, which makes it less palatable to Teahadists.
Fun times ahead…
Corner Stone
@El Cid:
I always thought this as well, and wondered what the 218 posturing was really about.
Even if the cuts were pure gold from an R perspective, they were never going to be enough for the tea party faction.
Isn’t it much better to have cover later if needed?
Sentient Puddle
@geg6:
…which is a choice between Boehner, Hastert, Gingrich, and depending on how far back the dial is set, maybe Joseph Martin, Jr.
Not exactly sure this says a lot.
feebog
Waiting for the Flying Monkeys to launch from your ass in 5…4…3…2…
geg6
@Bokonon:
And the more I read about it, the more I think they were right, from their point of view.
Obama and Reid rolled him. And Boehner fell right into the trap. The more I read about the budget deal, the fewer actual cuts I see in it. Which, from my point of view, is good. Not so for Mr. Tang or the Teabaggers.
4jkb4ia
Ancient Topic, as in last week:
NYT has story on F-16CJ and E/A-18G aircraft which have been flying in Libya after NATO took command. Description of purpose: “incapacitate Libyan radars, antiaircraft batteries or command centers in order to protect NATO strike aircraft.”
Yes, I even admitted that John was ignoring me anyway, but I thought what they were doing was no missions.
NonyNony
@El Cid:
Sure, and your comparison to Nancy Pelosi is an accurate one.
But Pelosi flat out made that a negotiating tactic. She told the White House at the time that their little TARP plan wasn’t going to pass without Republican votes.
Boehner told everyone that the only way a budget was getting out of the House was if it could make it through with ONLY Republican votes.
Pelosi’s tactic showed she was a leader of her caucus and willing to play hardball. Boehner’s antics shows that he’s bluffing with weak cards.
Zifnab
So does that mean the Democrats have leverage in the House? This isn’t particularly clear. What benefit do Dems get from voting for a bill the Dem base doesn’t like?
If this bill got held up and amended with some Democrat cookies, I might appreciate passage a bit more. As it stands, it looks like Dems are willing to sign on and shoot their own hostages now.
cleek
@Murc:
yup
the teabaggers get to go home to their dim-witted electorate and say “nope, i didn’t vote for that mess. i wanted to defund everything!”; the GOP gets credit for not shutting the govt down; the Dems get dinged by their own base for SELLING OUT ZOMGZ!21!II.
earth turns. sun appears. shit remains shit.
geg6
@Triassic Sands:
What’s hilarious is that, based on recent polls, getting herpes is more popular than Rick Santorum in Pennsylvania. He might get a negative vote total in his own home state.
NonyNony
@Zifnab:
Didn’t you see the polls from last week? Dem voters like compromise that keeps the government running.
The Dem base on the Internet may not have liked the compromise, but Dem voters mostly like their government functioning and are happy when their politicians act like adults.
soonergrunt
NPR this morning was talking about how the Republicans are ‘in disarray’ and how Charlie Cook was using the term “mass suicide mission” to describe their behavior and how there was a real chance for an electoral avalanche next year.
Dave
@Zifnab: Define “dem base”. Some people obviously don’t like it and others do, as this site and others have demonstrated.
But I haven’t seen a single Republican who likes this budget.
RobertB
I know someone has to be the grownup in the room and all, but the gibbering monkey inside me thinks it might have been kind of sweet to jam that straight up his ass.
Pat
So is that a “yay” for the Democrats? I’m comfused.
Baud
@Zifnab:
There are a lot of voters out there that aren’t part of either party’s “base.” And most Dems did vote against the bill, so they can go back to their base with a message also.
Corner Stone
I’m still not sure how cuts to programs, whether actual outlay cuts or approved budgets cuts, is somehow “rolling” the Republicans?
At the end of the day, whether approved budgets will never be rolled out, or worse outlays take the hit, it’s still cutting.
OzoneR
I’ll keep this handy when Pelosi is Speaker again and needs a few Republican votes to get a bill passed.
kdaug
Difficulty typing… trying to stifle giggles… not working, she’s breaking up…
Punchy
Great tag, Johnny
geg6
@Sentient Puddle:
I think you made my point. Can you imagine being weaker than Dennis Hastert? Seriously? I always thought of him as the dog that is wagged by its own tail.
And I just missed Joe Martin by a hair or two.
Baud
@Zifnab:
There are a lot of voters who are not part of either party’s “base.” And most Dems did vote against it, so they can tell their base they opposed the cuts.
darkmatter
Cry Boehner cry.
Jay C
@John Cole:
Heh. Told you so!:
@Murc:
And now, when/if the Teabagger Caucus decides to draw another “line in the sand” (which always seem to outline their grave, for some reason) over the debt ceiling; Obama and the Dems can hang tough, citing their “cooperation” on the funding bill: the Teatards have the marvelous choice of sticking to their “shut it down” absolutism, and get voted into near-irrelevancy; or – actually trigger a debt default: which will stroke out the world’s financial markets; enormously piss off their moneymen backers, and for which they will get most of the blame – and will end up an irrelevant rump in Congress anyway; with nothing to promote except a retrograde “social agenda” (which, sadly, will probably be easily passed).
MikeJ
@Zifnab:
From what I’ve seen, the dem base is ok with it. Don’t confuse DireFogMistake for the base.
Spaghetti Lee
Look, to the people asking what the Democrats got out of this, what they got was avoiding a government shutdown. If one had occurred and dragged on for months, people wouldn’t really care about how it happened and did or didn’t vote for what. Unemployment would have skyrocketed, people would be in desperate need of govt. services that were on hold, and the Republicans would have used it all to blame Obama and the remaning Dems and probably sweep to even greater victory in 2012.
The #1 goal should always be to avoid the shutdown. The Dems may have given the Republicans some ground by doing so, but they did the right thing. The fact that they exposed weakness in the Republican majority that could give Pelosi more bargaining power in the future is just gravy.
Triassic Sands
@Dave:
I don’t hate government (I hate Republican government) and usually I’d say I want our government to be able to pass legislation, but with the lunatics in charge in the House and the weakness of the Democrats in the Senate, I’d probably be happier if virtually nothing got done for the foreseeable future. I see nothing but vile, reprehensible legislation emanating from the House, most of which won’t have much chance in the Senate. All I’d expect out of the Senate is a bunch of fairly lame stuff that a)probably won’t have any chance in the House and b)won’t be missed in any event. (There could be exceptions.) They have to pass a budget and that will probably be ugly, but apart from that it might be best if they all just went home and annoyed their constituents.
geg6
@Zifnab:
Have you actually read or done any calculations on the deal? It’s not great, but not as bad as it seemed on the surface. Benen has been all over it. A sample:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2011_04/028951.php
joes527
I’d sat that this gives Nancy real leverage, but Boehner owing you a big favour and 2 bucks will buy you a (small) coffee at Starbucks.
Not much more.
Dave
@Triassic Sands: I think that is essentially what will happen. I would guess Boehner will decide he has to tow the teahadi line and that will prevent anything from getting done. It is too much to hope he draws the other lesson, which is too ignore those wackaloons and work with Democrats to actually get shit done.
Just Some Fuckhead
I really hate Boner but compared to the Teabag freaks he has to deal with he almost looks sympathetic. In 10 years, a rabid Teabagger will be Speaker of the House and will look positively reasonable compared to the flesh eating zombie republicans.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
John Boehner: [furiously punches numbers into calculator, gets wrong result. Shakes it hard and tries again. Number come out wrong again.] Dammit Megan, I thought you said this thing works! You said it always produces the right answer!
Megan McArdle: Hush! Can’t you see I’m busy right now. Atlas Shrugged is on
John Boehner: Screw your stupid movie, this is important. Your broken calculator is making me look like an idiot!
Megan McArdle: SHHHHH! Zip your lips, John. This is the best part; the flour-sifting scene is up next…
John Boehner: [starts to cry]
jl
I thought I heard on the radio this morning that the House will vote on the Ryan plan today? Is that right?
I hope the GOP is very unified and rock solid on that vote, to end Medicare. That will be nice. It certainly will raise my expectations of an enjoyable experience working on the 2012 election.
joe from Lowell
Headline contest:
Boehner Goes Soft on Spending Cuts
Spaghetti Lee
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ:
Worst. Porno. Ever.
Dave
@joe from Lowell: Boehner’s Leadership Goes Limp
Rhoda
@Murc: ITD. It was pretty clear that Boehner was on a short leash; that’s why IMO POTUS got a pretty good deal that won’t impact the economy as much this year. And it’s also why the Democrats are going into the next fight over the debt ceiling and the 2011 budget with a better hand than they had before; Republicans made a lot of noise and all that sound and fury did nothing but take a few million off the deficit and piss off independents. They can’t keep doing that and have it work.
JCT
@soonergrunt:
Great line and we should be so freaking lucky that they were “successful” at their mission. Given that they love to pretend that they are big manly man types — especially when sending other people off to war.
themann1086
This gives the Democrats leverage in negotiations going forward. “Why should we pay attention to those members of your caucus who won’t vote for any compromise anyway? You need to get a compromise that the president, the Senate, and 40+ House democrats are agreeable to.”
4jkb4ia
Chaffetz no, and Flake no, and Rehberg no! None of these people are formally in the Tea Party Caucus but all of them want to run for Senate next year. I counted 20 people out of the 59 that are formally in the Tea Party caucus and two like Scott and Stutzman that you would expect to be there.
Also I am going to steal a comment from Xenocrypt at SSP about how difficult it is to describe opposing the bill from the left when Pelosi votes no and DeFazio yes.
Your base doesn’t want to shut the government down. So you are in fact catering to them when you vote yes.
Tom Q
I can’t say if Boehner knew he’d lose this many votes before cuting the deal, but I’d say for sure that when it comes to the debt ceiling vote, he has no “I have to sell it to my caucus” card to play — the clear answer is, “You couldn’t deliver them before”.
Given the enormous pressure the GOP is going to be getting from all of its business folk — who don’t want even a whisper of fucking with the debt ceiling out there — I’d say there’s a better chance now that the Pubs will get nothing or very close to it as a condition of raising it.
NonyNony
@jl:
Friday according to what I find on the internets.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
@NonyNony:
Folks have to remember that the Digby Downer’s and Jane Hamster’s of the left make their living off of politics and events like the government shutting down are their busy season. The more conflict for them, the better.
Folks who check in to these blogs during their workdays or during their time off don’t get a boost in page hits if the govt shuts down – some get furloughed, some miss out on services and some miss out on vacation plans, etc.
joeyess
Yeah…… that’s not gonna happen.
Although, I’ll lay money on the President touting this as a bipartisan pony.
transmaniacon
@Corner Stone:
“It’s snowing still,” said Eeyore gloomily.
“So it is.”
“And freezing.”
“Is it?”
“Yes,” said Eeyore. “However,” he said, brightening up a little, “we haven’t had an earthquake lately.”
The Raven
Let us look at the forest–the political consensus–rather than the trees–individual politicians. The vote shows that a bipartisan coalition of conservative Democrats and non-Tea Party Republicans is the governing consensus of the USA. Which was already pretty obvious.
Now…will this coalition address unemployment? Nope? The housing crisis? Only on technical issues. The banking disaster? Nope.
…and global climate change and other international environmental issues?
Houston, we have a problem.
Croak!
MikeJ
@joeyess:
The choice for Dems is a bipartisan pony (and a popular one at that) or a teabagger bill. Repubicans can pass a bill with zero Dem votes. Dems can bot pass a bill without republican votes.
FlipYrWhig
@Dave: If Boehner lasts more than 4 hours, seek medical attention.
cleek
@jl:
today they get their symbolic votes on defunding planned parenthood and abolishing Obamacare.
NR
@Spaghetti Lee:
By this logic, the Republicans could demand anything, literally anything, and the Democrats would have to agree to it. Gut the EPA, repeal Social Security and Medicare, bring back debtors prisons? Sure! After all, we can’t have a shutdown!
joeyess
@MikeJ: I agree. It’s just sad to see them negotiating from their backs. We shouldn’t cut a fucking thing. The very idea of cuts during the worst recession in history is insane. But, we are where we are and we have the media to prove it.
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
The Tea Party just marginalized itself. Expect slightly more reasonable legislation from the house in the future. Boehner now knows he needs the Democrats (and I hope to God Pelosi does the negotiating on the Dems behalf from here on out).
Rhoda
@The Raven: That’s what makes the senate firewall and the White House so important. This is where the shit gets real; playing defense isn’t fun but elections have consequences and we have to deal with them for the next two years.
On the plus side; it’s a two year window. We’ll survive.
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people):I think she’s going to fund raise and be behind the scenes for the most of the next two years; she’s a lightening rod however unfair and they don’t want her attracting attacks. I think the fight to keep her seat at the table was harder than it first appeared, too. Beyond the Politico marginalized stories; Hoyer is making more noise than she is now. I guess that’s by design.
cleek
@joeyess:
the cuts are actually pretty small:
ht
Legalize
@Murc:
I don’t know about that. Boner was saying that he could pass whatever he wanted without Dems AT ALL. He could get what he wanted with 218 votes. If he was bluffing, it was leverage that was illusory in the first instance. He recovered from that the only way he could – with his last chip – knowing that the Dems don’t want to shutdown the government. This got him the number of votes he needed, but any leverage he once had has been squandered by the facts that (a) his own caucus doesn’t trust him; (b) Obama and Reid can count; and (c) Nancy Pelosi made him look like a punk.
catclub
@Sentient Puddle: Could any be weaker than Bob Livingston? He resigned because he had an affair.
aimai
I’m loving it. My mother was supposed to be on a conference call with Nancy Pelosi today and she was dreading it until I said “you can ask her how it felt when Boehner had to beg you for help to pass the budget!” I don’t know if she decided to do the call or not but it really perked her up. She had been feeling very negative about Obama but after the speech and all the information that has come out about how miniscule the cuts are she’s back in the fold and ready to start giving money again.
aimai
MikeJ
@joeyess: Meh. We cut $35o Mil. A lot of the “cuts” were money given to agencies that they didn’t actually spend.
Spending for the sake of spending is stupid. I agree there are plenty of things we should be spending more on (infrastructure seems like the best and easiest win), but until you can get (435/2)+1 votes nothing is going to happen.
NonyNony
@J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford:
I don’t think that’s true of Digby or Jane. Both of them have their ideologies and in their ideology the idea of compromising at all with Republicans – even to keep the government open – is not worth it.
I disagree, but my ideology is different than theirs. I see compromising to a limited degree within reason to keep the government open is a good thing – especially when the compromises can be easily reversed later. And most of the things in this compromise seem to be of that stript. The thing that pisses me off about this compromise is that once again the people of Washington DC get used as a political kickball by the Congress they aren’t allowed to vote for. That pisses me off and Reid and Obama should have told Boehner to pound sand instead of letting him take that cheap shot.
General Stuck
ask an ye shall receive. Signal to Stuck bunker restored. fucking high winds from hell.
So Cole, why no new posts from our little firebagbuddy who doesn’t plan to vote for Obama. We already know that Boehner and his wingnut hordes are bad news. I want to know why he isn’t voting for Obama, he promised to tell us , the sniveling little shit.
joeyess
@cleek: I know. However the narrative is horrible. Cutting during recession should be a non-starter. It’s Econ 101. It’s the first goddamn thing economists learn and the last thing talked about by demagogues.
I just hate the insanity of it. We shouldn’t even be tapping our foot to the tune, much less dancing to it.
When these cuts don’t work – and they won’t – the Right Wing Wurlitzer, Boehner and his caucus of know-nothings will come back and demand more.
It’s. just. fucking. stupid.
joe from Lowell
Boehner’s Situation Grows Harder as Teabaggers Go To Work on His Base
Legalize
And another thing, Obama, Reid, and Boner (unwittingly) just proved that no one needs the Teabilly caucus to govern. If Boner has an interest in governing (and I think he does), he knows that he can work with Stenny, Reid, and Obama, and that Mitch McConnell won’t say shit about it.
4jkb4ia
I feel more cheerful about the debt limit vote now that I have seen that 81 Democrats would vote against a government shutdown. Boehner should be able to get nearly all the Democrats for that vote because it is such a life-or-death situation; he will need only a rump of Republicans to stick with him.
The test of Boehner’s leadership is the budget. He can’t get a budget that will make both the Tea Partiers and 80 Democrats happy. (He might be able to get a budget that will make the Tea Partiers and 20 Blue Dogs happy.) He has to be able to tell his caucus and the base that they got everything they could. And as Murc said, the WH is entitled to laugh at him when he says that he needs to pass it with Republicans alone.
Tsulagi
Have you no compassion? It’s hard out there for an orange guy.
To be fair, he didn’t intend for that to be taken as a factual signal.
joe from Lowell
@joeyess:
And before the 2010 elections, we weren’t.
Somebody tell me, what changed?
joeyess
@MikeJ: @cleek: In other words, it’s the optics. That’s my concern.
OzoneR
@Zifnab:
I’ll have an answer when they do vote for a bill the Dem base doesn’t like.
jl
@NonyNony:
@cleek:
Thanks. Now I have my nutcake parade calendar properly synchronized.
joeyess
@joe from Lowell: exactly.
OzoneR
@joeyess:
welcome to divided government
ShadeTail
@NR @68:
Except that Boehner got rolled on this, one way or another. The vast majority of the spending “cuts” in this budget come from eliminating programs that were about to expire anyway, or skimming unused funds away from programs that didn’t need the money. The actual program cuts represented a very tiny fraction of the total savings. That’s why so many of the GOP caucus defected and voted no.
So either Boehner got rolled by the White House into agreeing to a deal that is actually very liberal friendly; or he knew full well what he was agreeing to, and had to sneak it past his own caucus of dumbasses and clowns, only to fail at that. And on top of that, he was on the record saying that his caucus would stay united behind it, only to be humiliated by having to get democratic votes to make it pass. No matter how you look at this, Boehner looks weak and ineffective, and the democrats are given a great deal of leverage.
Tom Q
@joeyess: But, as Obama has said, it’s difficult to reverse 30 years of “government is the problem” indoctrination. I think he’s happy to pay the lip service to get this done and have the tangible result be essentially no cuts.
Winning the fuller argument is the work of years to come. I mean, Reagan didn’t win all of America over to his view in one swoop; there were plenty who voted for him vis a vis Mondale without buying into his spiel (including some elected members of his party). It was successive Republican administrations that made the argument stick, and it’s going to take an equally long time to establish the current Democratic credo.
Omnes Omnibus
@jl: You can imagine how relieved I am to hear that.
j
@Tom Q:
you mean the title should have been:
REPUBLICANS IN DISARRAY! LEADER A WEAK BOEHNER!
Joel
@NR: They were demanding those things, except for the last one. That’s next year.
In case you were wondering, the Republicans are the guys with the majority in the House.
4jkb4ia
@General Stuck:
Jeebus, Freddie didn’t intend to post here regularly, he said that in the comments.
I thought “General Stuck bait” on reading Steve Kornacki: Obama’s “base” problem doesn’t actually exist
Georgia Pig
Don’t be so sure the media wouldn’t run with a “flaccid Boehner” meme.
Linda Featheringill
Note to Republicans:
If you are negotiating with Obama, you’d better read the damn bill. All of it.
Joe Lisboa
Ah, the sweet, sweet taste of Tears of Boehner.
sukabi
And Democrats, please note- the next time that Boehner trots out that “I need an agreement that 218 R’s will vote for” simply respond- “Since when will they listen to you?”
And then ask sweetly if he’d like Pelosi to help him wrangle his cats… pretty sure she didn’t bring anything to the floor that she couldn’t get the votes for…
Redshift
I think this also illustrates that while the modern GOP is great at lying their way through campaigns, they’re truly bad at governing, even the PR side of governing. If I were a smart TPer (contradiction in terms, I know), I would respond to the news that the cuts “weren’t really cuts” by crowing that I was right about there being all this waste and unnecessary spending. See, we cut $38B and even the Democrats admit that it was nothing important, so we’re right to go ahead with our $100B in cuts!
Instead, they’re pissed off about getting punked and ready to call Boehner a DINO, and the Democrats are getting credit for not being forced to do things they didn’t want to.
General Stuck
@4jkb4ia:
Oh, you misunderstand. I AM Giddy beyond description to have a real live firebagger front pager to (cougn) engage with. It is probly the highlight of my career here to have been provided such a splendid opportunity. Doesn’t matter if it’s un regular, I can wait.
And of course Obama doesn’t have a base problem. Duh, he has a problem from a posse of retards with internet connections. And now we can see one up close, to study, poke and prod it. With ABL gone, the gloves are off, shredded, and burnt to a fine powder. There will be so much fun to be had.
JCT
@Linda Featheringill:
And for all you teabagger lunatics who can’t read — find someone to help you out.
Boehner got rolled hard on this one.
bemused
Scarborough was hyperventilating this am that it was so insulting of Obama to dis Ryan’s plan at the pressser with Ryan in the audience and a bad move politically, also, too. What an asshat.
Waah, waah.
Dennis SGMM
@bemused:
For such a bunch of manly men the Republicans sure turn into a bunch of WATBs when someone disputes them. They remind me of what a contemporary said of Gaius Caesar (Caligula); “There never was a better slave or a worse master.”
John Cole
What the fuck is wrong with you? Are you mentally ill?
One person out of everyone who writes on this blog who MAY not vote for Obama, but probably will, given the election is 18 months away, and you have an aneurysm?
Bulworth
Yeah but the president was very mean and shrill and partisan yesterday.
Corner Stone
@General Stuck:
She was holding you back, little buddy? Keeping You Onna Leash(tm) !! Didn’t want to offend her fine sensibilities and delicate airs, pray tell?
Sentient Puddle
@catclub: Close, but Livingston was never actually an official Speaker. And even if he did manage to squeeze in a few days with the gavel, Hastert would still probably have him beat.
Dennis SGMM
@General Stuck:
General Matoko-Chan.
joeyess
@OzoneR: I know. Can’t I just complain? That’s why I’m here. SHeesh!
joeyess
@John Cole: ha ha ha….
Omnes Omnibus
@Dennis SGMM: Bullies are cowards at heart.
joeyess
@Tom Q:
I was there. Watched it all happen. I’m 51 headed toward 60. Fast. I’m in a bit of a hurry, that’s all.
Dennis SGMM
@Omnes Omnibus:
Heh, true that. I’m just surprised that he can see his monitor through the built up spittle.
bemused
@Dennis SGMM:
Exactly.
Joe was still saying it was great that Ryan put everything on the table. Not everything by a long shot but evidently Joe just shined the pesky details. The important thing is that Ryan put it all out there and meanie Obama laughed at the poor boy in public. Joe actually said that Ryan should have been able to watch the presser in his office.
These people are ridiculous.
Dennis SGMM
@joeyess:
I’m 63. It’s been one hell of a long time since JFK.
Chris
@Redshift:
Someone on this board once said that we were a center-left country for what we wanted in governing, but a center-right country for what we wanted in campaigning. (It wasn’t phrased like that exactly, and I can’t remember what thread it was on, but that was the crux of it). Republicans ignore the first half of that equation at their peril.
El Cid
@NonyNony: It was a bad comparison, in that Boehner is no Pelosi, nor was this planned in detail.
Partly I just wanted to retell that story.
Cat
@joe from Lowell:
Not to encourage prurient humor based on the poor guys name, but these are freaking hilarious. :-0
Just Some Fuckhead
@Corner Stone:
Stuck will be toadying up to the new guy inside of two weeks. It’s in his DNA.
Juicetard (FKA Liberty60)
Also too, please browse the wingnut blogs and tell me if their cries of “oh noes, Boehner is worse than Obama- HE SOLD US OUT!” sound familiar.
sukabi
@bemused: they are beyond ridiculous… buncha little weenies. How dare Obama say mean things about Ryan’s “Very Serious Plan”…
Mostly they’re probably pissed because Obama pointing out, in plain language, how mean spirited and “unserious” it was emphasized how “unserious” and mean spirited those in the media have been for pushing it as “The Greatest Thing EVAR!!!”
They all (R’s and their media tools) look like f’n incompetent hacks.
Svensker
@General Stuck:
ABL is gone? What did I miss?
General Stuck
@John Cole:
Is that all you can come with , a tired “are you mentally ill” or “obama fellater”.
I said I looked forward to freedie’s post. It is you that is mentally ill. The Sybll of the blogs, with enough personalities to match. You want to know why ABL left, because you have been too chickenshit to police your own goddamn blog from the racist white trash talk that has been in comments here for the past 6 to 8 months. Cornerstone and fuckead as leaders, and their little cracker packs. They should have been banned for life a long time ago, and now you let the cheesedick motherfuckers hound ABL off this blog, with their non stop stalking. And you know what, you let that shit go on on your blog, your are one with it. Now say something smart like, “all you do is fellate obama” That is the class of person you are dude.
You did ban for a day or so a couple of irregulars, but you regular buddies have gotten a free ride.
Tom Q
@joeyess: 59 myself, so looking at 60 from real close up.
Sure, I feel the same — wished Obama had been able to go full FDR from the start. But of course FDR had 79 Senators, some sane Republicans and no filibuster, and clear GOP responsibility for three years of Depression, so he had a better running start.
sukabi
@Cat: I would think something on the line of “Boehner left flaccid after member desertion” would be apt for his position…
Just Some Fuckhead
@John Cole:
haha. There can be no other explanation.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Svensker:
She had an Obotomy.
Just Some Fuckhead
@General Stuck:
lmfao
I’ve never hounded her about anything nor stalked her. You are clearly deranged.
Bob Loblaw
@General Stuck:
Wouldn’t it make more sense to go find Freddie at his personal blog and leave this “chickenshit, racist, shit blog” for good?
Is someone feeling needy?
Zifnab
@Dave:
:-p Well, I’m not a big fan of $5 billion up for Defense and yanking wolves in the mountain states off the endangered species list. There’s a lot about this budget that bothers me.
But with the GOP grabbing the wheel, I do acknowledge there’s a limit to what you can expect. But I’m still not going to eat this shit sandwich and call it delicious, no matter how much more shitty it could have been.
Even if it does piss off the Tea Tards.
Dennis SGMM
I don’t know which is worse, Stuck the Mindless Obot or Stuck the Knight in Drooling Armor.
ABL seems to be more than capable of taking care of herself. I sincerely doubt that anyone has ever hounded her out of any place that she chose to be.
Yeah, I know: firebagger, racist, yadda, yadda, yadda. You really need some fresh material.
bemused
@sukabi:
It is head spinning to see the ‘moral’ party get their panties in a twist when people point out that they have no hesitation throwing people out in street like garbage saying they cost too much money that should go to the luxury class. That’s demagoguery!
Juicetard (FKA Liberty60)
@sukabi:
For the win!
General Stuck
@Dennis SGMM:
Fresh material. How about fellating me you racist fuck.
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw:
how about tighten your liplock on fuckhead and corner stone.
Then EAT SHIT
sukabi
@bemused: yep… they certainly don’t like the light shining on their fuckery.
Tsulagi
@Dennis SGMM:
Damn that’s old. Given nutters think the planet is only 6,000 years old, that means you’ve been wandering around for over 1% of all days since the beginning of time. j/k
More off topic, skimming the comments seems I’ve missed a few events. A frontpager said he won’t vote for Obama next time? Who that? Tim F? ABL gone? Damn, if someone pissed her off you’d think she’d just tell them to fuck off then drive on. All kinds of changes.
Good to see some continuity; the General’s still a retard. Comforting.
Just Some Fuckhead
lmfao. Stuck needs a timeout.
bemused
@sukabi:
Liberals are so rude that way.
General Stuck
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Cole can ban me anytime he wants. Cole deserves you on his side fuckhead. A worthless racist, bigotted, misogynistic piece of vermin. You ARE the future of this blog.
les
@NR:
Yup, that’s exactly what happened. Even fucking Cassandra didn’t try to predict doom in the past, when it had not happened. Are you a professional idiot, or is it just an avocation?
transmaniacon
@Corner Stone:
In other news, your PUMA dead-ender schtick is getting older and uglier by the day.
Sko Hayes
I think the Teabaggers have just shown their rather weak hand. Boehner can’t count on them to back him, but there are always the left over Blue Dogs to support him and pass the legislation anyway.
It seems to me they can’t threaten us with the debt ceiling limit anymore, because there aren’t enough stupid teabaggers to vote against it. The Democrats will certainly vote to raise it, and then you only need what, another 40 votes to get to a majority?
(by the way, Boehner’s been putting out feelers about how long the fight can go on before he caves, and Wall Street is getting angry.
http://theweek.com/article/index/214195/why-is-john-boehner-consulting-wall-street-4-theories
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
Yes, Republicans can make President Obama do all those awful things he does only when they are in the minority.
.
.
4jkb4ia
@General Stuck:
That’s the point. It was for a day or so. John has been so lenient about banning people in the past that he has to figure out how to make banning people stick.
At least a) Hermione is somewhat more understandable now and b) there are less than 10 diehard, completely useless trolls. Everyone knows who they are. If you have a central media source like the Atlantic or GOS trolls could derail anything useful the blog is there for.
Just Some Fuckhead
@General Stuck:
lmfao. I’m not talking about a banning, I’m talking about a real live timeout like you’d stick a 5 year old in.
Felonious Wench
@joe from Lowell:
Boehner Unable to Deliver without Democrat’s Assistance, Teabaggers Claim Responsibility
Whee! This is fun!
Dennis SGMM
@General Stuck:
Arrgh! Your carefully thought out, elegantly worded riposte has me reaching for a defibrillator. The best part is that you just vindicated every negative comment that was made about you. I don’t need to fellate you, you fuck yourself over and over again.
sukabi
@bemused: things would be a whole bunch better now if liberals had been at least this rude every time one of the fuckwitted “screw the working” policies over the past 10+ years had been pushed… but sadly you go to war with the media and D’s you have, not the ones you wish you had… :-(
General Stuck
@4jkb4ia:
BingfuckingO!!
@Just Some Fuckhead:
The real live place would be here, on this thread with your sorry ass. It’s called balloon juice, and now has a pack of bigots running wild. Wasn’t like that in the beginning. too bad. nothing lasts forever, I guess.
FlipYrWhig
@Felonious Wench: Stimulus reduced, Boehner fades.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
@Just Some Fuckhead:
.
.
Some say that General Stuck is widely acknowledged as one of the biggest racists – as well as the biggest deranged snorkeler – on this blog. However, I disagree.
.
.
General Stuck
@Dennis SGMM:
Only with people like you and your fellow shitsticks fuckhead, CS and Clarence, and the rest. All the little gang surrounding me now. I blew my troll whistle, and out of the woodwork you come. Like you always do. pwnd.
Uloborus
@Sko Hayes:
Oh Golden Calf, let this be true. The Tea Jerks have very few opportunities to score before they’re elected out for being useless lunatics who can’t even make the useless lunatics happy. They’ve just wasted their best. Let them be outmaneuvered on both sides in #2.
The ACA and Finreg were not deregulated. The conservatives got squat in capitulations to their personal wars. The actual budget cuts were so damn small we can consider this a stable budget. If we can ride out these two years we’ll have broken the historically expected backlash to passing ACA.
Stuck In General (no pun intended):
Dude, c’mon, what happened? Do you know how much I respect you? How much I’ve learned from the links you’ve provided about the actual nuances of how government works? Let it go, man. Yes, the diehard nihilists of the Pouting Tiger Clan are irritating as Hell, but screaming at them only makes you angry. It’s tearin’ you apart. Ignore them and discuss policy and facts with the other people who are here to discuss policy and facts, and like will attract like and the whiners will get drowned out.
transmaniacon
My favorite part was when folks bashed ABL for using mixed fonts.
That never gets old.
Dennis SGMM
First you want me to blow you and now you’re calling me names.
You’re so fickle.
Just Some Fuckhead
@General Stuck:
Don’t forget cbear, one of the original members of the cracker pack.
Bob Loblaw
@General Stuck:
My general understanding of anatomy is that I’d have to choose between one or the other, any thoughts?
@General Stuck:
That sounds about right. DougJ has been slacking recently. I think Wisconsin killed a little part of him inside and now he’s all mopey and shit, worrying about Trump and Bachmann.
Just Some Fuckhead
@General Stuck:
Stuck, it’s you that has been ruining this place for everyone else. You’ve been having this drama filled meltdown every coupla months going on how many years now?
General Stuck
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Nice try fuckhead, cbear hasn’t commented here more than a handful of times the past 2 years. Anyone else you want to implicate in your circle of shame.
Just Some Fuckhead
@General Stuck:
Dude. cbear has been back for months.
General Stuck
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I am sure your experience of getting drop kicking your sorry ass into tomorrow every few days must seem to you like I’ve been running the place.
If you wanted to say that I have beee doing my best to run trolls to ground, then maybe there is some truth in what you say.
General Stuck
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Show me some of his recent comments then. I see him dropping in occasionally, but I have never seen him behave like your miserable self. never. But I am sure he will appreciate his friend offering him up in a flame war that he is not in on.
General Stuck
Okay, I’ve said what I needed to say and will stop my hijacking the thread to vent. If you want to take some more shots, you can always call 1-888- PIS SOff, and leave a message.
Corner Stone
@transmaniacon: Well, since you’ve commented on exactly two threads at BJ, both today, I can only assume you’ve been silently and lustfully stalking me across the intertrons.
4jkb4ia
@General Stuck:
Good. Maybe you will take back what you said about John being mentally ill, which was so not true, I am speechless.
(John has one, strong personality. A range of emotions is legit.)
Turgidson
I would like to take this opportunity to offer a hearty “heh, indeedy” to this post.
…and denounce Stalin.
thanks for reading.
JAHILL10
ABL left? Dammit! I really liked her!
Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)
@Uloborus:
Huh? What the hell are those?
Sounds kinda commie to me.
Just Some Fuckhead
@General Stuck:
You just gotta trust me. cbear is a member of the cracker pack. I’ll have him call you on your toll free number to tell ya.
General Stuck
@4jkb4ia:
My own policy in flame wars, is almost always, these days, for someone else to drop the first ad hominem. After that, anything goes as turnabout is fair play. Exception for resident sewer trout like Cs and FH.
Go back and reread Cole’s first comment to me. I don’t apologize when it comes down that way, but have before, when I do the first shit slinging that went too far. And No, I don’t want, nor expect the blog owner here to apologize for the “biggest Obama fellater here” remark a week or so ago directed at me. It just means all the gloves are off, and I kind of like it that way. No lies.
transmaniacon
@Corner Stone:
Sorry, I wasn’t aware that this was a secret society.
Are you still biting your pillow because She lost?
Corner Stone
@transmaniacon:
I wouldn’t say ABL “lost” necessarily, that’s kind of harsh.
I don’t think she’d appreciate you putting it that way.
tess
@soonergrunt: And how did the reporter describe it? The GOP is “acting like Democrats.”
Oh, that liberal media….
Triassic Sands
@geg6:
I wonder if his family hates him.
I assume his kids will grow up to be either despicable Right Wing theocrats or rebel and become extreme Left Wing atheists. I wouldn’t be surprised to see some of each. It’s hard for me to envision a “moderate” (of any stripe) coming out of his household, which is the embodiment of extreme stupidity and lunacy. Poor kids.
Just Some Fuckhead
Bob, you wanna be in the cracker pack? I feel bad you were left out. I know yer muslimmy but we can figure out how to work around that.
transmaniacon
@Corner Stone:
You’ve even absorbed conservative framing strategies.
Just out of curiosity, what would set things right for you?
joe from Lowell
@Bulworth:
Yeah, he was. Wasn’t it grand?
joe from Lowell
@Uloborus: Stealing “Pouting Tiger Clan.”
different church-lady
@ShadeTail:
Yeah but… but… but… THE OPTICS! THE OPTICS! THE OPTICS! THE OPTICS! THE OPTICS! THE OPTICS! THE OPTICS! THE OPTICS! THE OPTICS…
So many opticians around lately…
@General Stuck:
“PORWICs?” Hmmm… I’ve been looking for a term for people who call themselves “the base” who aren’t really. But will it meme?
Cat
@JAHILL10:
This is the internet, you are allowed to browse to other sites. She still posts on http://www.angryblacklady.com/ and a with a few other people you may or may not recognize from BJ’s commentators.
General Stuck
@different church-lady:
PORWICs . Very well done DCL. Has an early Pleistocene ring to it.
Catzmaw
Oh wait a minute. Last week didn’t I see people bloviating all over the blogosphere (including here in balloon world) that Boehner had “won”? Now he’s the loser? Seems maybe people should stop selling Obama short because this is the same thing he did during the lame duck Congress. He always looks weak and like he just caved, and then a couple of days later his opponents are standing around with nothing wondering how the hell their great victory evaporated.
JAHILL10
@Cat: You are well named.
OzoneR
@Tom Q:
A third of the country and most of the media also didn’t cast doubt on his qualifications for the job.
FDR’s worst scandal is that he was crippled.
different church-lady
@Catzmaw: The mills of reality grind slowly…
aisce
@General Stuck:
oh god, i hope you fucktards start using PORWICs. to go along with all your other little acronyms and pet names.
president obama deserves better supporters.
General Stuck
@aisce:
LOL, this comment almost perfectly sums up not only this thread, but the giant sucking black hole of stupid this blog and all the other FDL borg units have become. Here is a clue, “we” being Obama supporters, didn’t create those “other little acronyms and pet names” you speak of. You folks made them up, and we just used them in turn to mock you . And congrats, the complete comic relief of your comment, and it’s telling, though unintended message, along with
is just pure gold, and the cherry on top of the cone of idiocy we find ourselves, on this little blog in a big crazy mixed up world. The Blogs : Tempest in a Chamber Pot. Thank you madame,or sir. I mean that sincerely.
aisce
@General Stuck:
our president asks us to be better citizens, but even more importantly better people.
idiots like you general stuck, wallow in your own feces. you’re pathetic. like i said, our president deserves better “supporters.”
enjoy your PORWICs.
General Stuck
@aisce:
You are right sweet pea. Though I suspect Obama wants us to keep a sense of humor. Besides, we already have a perfectly good term in firebagger, who by definition are not Obama supporters in the first place. A little zen for you to roll around that big brain of yours.
Uriel
It’s always been my feeling not having a comment section tend to made a blog seem a little cowardly and intellectually cheep.
Currently, however, I find myself forced to reconsider…
El Cid
Anyone who thinks bad is FDL. FDL is bad. You are bad. You are FDL.
Albert
Shame on the 81 Democrats that voted for the bill and saved Boehner’s butt. They should have sat back, let him sweat and reshaped the bill a tad. I would have tossed him back over to the tea party without an agreement to show them just off the mark they are. If I were a Dem Congressman, I would have let the government shut down before I agreed w/ Boehner.