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You are here: Home / Why is Kausfiles still a TPM approved site?

Why is Kausfiles still a TPM approved site?

by | 97 Comments

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Mickey Kaus’s latest is hardly isolated. He’s been an embarrassment for at least five years now.

Why does Josh Marshall continue to support these dude? Kaus is one of about 12 “TPM approved” sites. What the fuck? Did they spend Michaelmas at All Souls together or their kids go to Brooklyn Friends together or did Mickey buy him a bespoke suit once or what?

I know some of you don’t like these kinds of petty, meta, navel-gazing topics, but I do.

Reader Interactions

97Comments

  3. 3.

    Napoleon

    My impression is that those on his blogroll are people who gave him links when he was a nobody and his site was new. Its more of a form of thank you then endorcement of those sites.
    PS – this applies to some and maybe not all on his blogroll. I think both Sully and Kraus were early heavy linkers to Josh.

  4. 4.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    I know some of you don’t like these kinds of petty, meta, navel-gazing topics, but I do

    I think they’re prolly better inserted as a comment into yer last post on the topic.

  6. 6.

    BGinCHI

    TPM does great reporting but in general the site has slowed way down. It’s not as up-to-date and is generally ramshackle compared to even a year ago.

    It’s like a restaurant with great food but terrible service.

  8. 8.

    cyntax

    I know some of you don’t like these kinds of petty, meta, navel-gazing topics, but I do.

    I actually don’t see it as a meta-topic, because when I find a site I like, I like to check out their blogroll to see if there are some sites I’m unaware of and might like. Being stingy with the blogroll or slow to update is in effect, short changing your readers.

    Blogrolls are kind of like bibliographies; they help to extend the conversation you’re having (OK, now that’s meta).

  9. 9.

    FlipYrWhig

    I thought Kaus, Sullivan, and Glenn Reynolds were the original “bloggers.” Maybe keeping them on the blogroll is like saying “I am aware of all internet traditions.”

  11. 11.

    Violet

    @joes527:
    Yeah, but Cole readily admits he’s slow at updating the blogroll.

    @BGinCHI:
    Agreed. They easily go half a day without updating anything on their front page on a regular basis these days.

  12. 12.

    danimal

    This blog would die off without petty, meta, navel-gazing posts. You do know your audience, don’t you?

  13. 13.

    Mannahatta

    Josh said a while back on the main blog that it was because Mickey was the one who encouraged him to take up blogging in the first place.

    Here’s one link saying that TPM was originally styled on Kausfiles.

  14. 14.

    BombIranForChrist

    Somebody needs to get off Kaus’s lawn. Kids, probably. Dirty, meddling kids.

  20. 20.

    kc

    On a semi-related note, I stopped reading TPM a while back, when it was “reporting” on Chris Christie’s collision with a motorcycle. I recall several front page items referring to the story, whereupon I’d click a link only to be directed to some other TPM site, Muckraker or something; only after having to click through multiple self-links did I find the original news story, and it turned out TPM, from what I can see, misrepresented some of the details of the wreck.

    I really don’t like Christie, but that was annoying.

  23. 23.

    rea

    My recollection is (1) Kaus was very helpful to Marshall when Marshall was getting started, and Kaus was already sort of a big deal and (2) like a lot of people on the right, Kaus was a lot less crazy 12 years or so ago.

  24. 24.

    Adam Hyland

    Because nobody maintains blogrolls regularly or cares who is on them? I mean look at all the blogs on this site’s roll. 538 is still the old url, I’d be willing to bet 10% have gone dead, and who cares about the rest.

  26. 26.

    SFAW

    I know some of you don’t like these kinds of petty, meta, navel-gazing topics, but I do.

    Do tell.

    And it’s “approved”, WATB.

    Maybe you should change yer moniker to “Common DougJ”?

  28. 28.

    SFAW

    On the other hand, at least, when JSF tipped you off, you deleted the “P” correctly, first time.

    So there’s that.

  31. 31.

    SFAW

    I’ll expect the same from BJ when it moves to the Daily Caller Beast whatever.

    What’s that you say? Cole is going to be on The Daily Show? Just because Kthrugman mentioned him? What’s next, the Washington Press Club dinner? (or whatever the name is where Colbert smacked ’em a few years back).

    Any other good rumors?

  32. 32.

    Woodorw L. Goode, IV

    @Napoleon: If you provide a link to someone on your blogroll, it’s an endorsement– especially if you only have 12.

    (Unless you do as John does here, or a few other guys, and list them as sites you read for source material. Obviously “Fire Megan McArdle” is going to link to the Atlantic.)

    Not to get this thread going again, but Josh Marshall is a lot more conservative than people think. He was solidly in favor 100% in favor of the Iraq war and Sully also gets a link; Glenn Reynolds had one for a long while.

    Here’s a fairly cringe-inducing page from his archives. Read all the posts and you’ll find a few things that won’t square with the opinion a lot of folks have of JMM as a progressive. This one, in many ways is even worse.

    The differences between Josh and Arianna Huffington are a lot less than people tend to think. They’re both very good businessmen.

  33. 33.

    kdaug

    @LGRooney:

    If any of you had my belly button, you’d understand the joys.

    I’ve seen lint you people wouldn’t believe… Attack lint on fire off the shoulder of Orion… I’ve watched lint-beams glitter in the dark near the Tanhauser Gate… All those moments will be lost in time, like lint in my navel.

    Time to die.

  34. 34.

    ExistentialFish

    Don’t apologize for asking that question. The only way to get accountability in media is to ask questions of those supporting the idiots.

    That’s how Glenn Beck lost his show.

    That’s the right question, it’s on Josh Marshall to answer.

  35. 35.

    Napoleon

    @Woodorw L. Goode, IV:

    If you provide a link to someone on your blogroll, it’s an endorsement—especially if you only have 12.

    I am not disagreeing that that is a fair way to look at it, I was just providing what my impression is would be JMM’s explaination if he was answering the question himself.

    Sully also gets a link

    I am almost certain Sully was an early heavy linker to JMM along with Kraus, and those 2 were the 800 lbs gorillas in the early days of blogging.

  36. 36.

    RP

    Was Kaus ever not an embarrassment? I thought his commentary during the 2000 election was awful.

    I haven’t read TPM regularly since late 2008. He seemed to jump into the “Obama sucks! he betrayed us!” pool almost immediately after the election, which I found annoying. I don’t think he’s that different from a lot of media outlets in that he thrives on controversy, and isn’t shy about pumping it up when necessary at the expense of good reporting and sensible analysis.

  38. 38.

    Bulworth

    To his credit, Kaus does go on to say this:

    He’s the second president in a row to get a pass–George W. Bush, after all, didn’t exactly have to fight his way through a 64-team bracket. He was a legacy exception. And, come to think of it, he wasn’t that good at politics either. …

    Now, exactly why Kaus and whoever this Cost person is think Obama is bad at politics is unclear. He got ACA passed, got DADT repealed, and it appears he rolled Boner and House Republicans on the budget cuts.

    Also, too, that half-picture of Kaus at the Daily Caller is kinda creepy.

  39. 39.

    MattR

    @Woodorw L. Goode, IV: Agree completely about Marshall. I think Josh is naturally more to the left than Arianna, but the development of TPM is based more on a business model that found a niche than on an ideological desire to push the conversation leftward.

  40. 40.

    HyperIon

    @Violet:

    Do they even look at the blogroll? Sully’s link still goes to The Atlantic.

    IIRC correctly the Kaus link was broken for a long time so somebody updated it. Recall that Marshall Wittmann used to be on the blogroll years ago when Lieberman love was still possible.

    But who really gives a shit?

    regarding:

    Josh Marshall is a lot more conservative than people think

    Yes, but so is Kevin Drum. JM is a real journalist. In the past he has done some very solid reporting. Trent Lott and the US Attorney “scandal” and Abramoff come to mind.

    IMO his TPM empire is too scattered. And his website is a mess: things appear in several places, too many screaming headlines. But he does employ a bunch of people and adheres to journalistic standards so….

  41. 41.

    West of the Cascades

    Bet Krugman doesn’t cite Kaus by name. Shame on TPM for not updating its “approved” list.

  43. 43.

    MattR

    @HyperIon:

    JM is a real journalist.

    For better and for worse.

    PS. Add Bush’s Social Security privitization efforts to your list

  44. 44.

    Comrade DougJ

    @HyperIon:

    The website is a mess but there’s lots of great stuff there, I agree. I don’t care what Marshall’s politics are, he runs a top-notch journalistic enterprise.

  46. 46.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Bulworth:

    Now, exactly why Kaus and whoever this Cost person is think Obama is bad at politics is unclear.

    Probably rehashing the “compromises too easily”/”won’t fight” argument.

  48. 48.

    quaker in a basement

    I know some of you don’t like these kinds of petty, meta, navel-gazing topics

    You mean pissing matches?

    Somebody could clean up in the web traffic sweepstakes with a site devoted entirely to tracking blogosphere slapfighting. Somebody, but not me.

  49. 49.

    Nellcote

    @Woodorw L. Goode, IV:

    The differences between Josh and Arianna Huffington are a lot less than people tend to think.

    The gap between them narrows by the day. Whoever writes the post titles should be shot.

  50. 50.

    mr. whipple

    Why is Kausfiles still a TPM approved site?

    Mickey blew Josh Marshall’s goat. Josh was grateful to have a happy goat and approved.

  51. 51.

    Corner Stone

    I’m sorry, but there’s a “Democratic strategist” on MSNBC named Krystal Ball.
    Head:asploded.

  52. 52.

    MattR

    @Comrade DougJ:

    he runs a top-notch journalistic enterprise.

    Wow. This shows how far our standards have fallen. TPM is defintiely better than most, but it is far from top notch.

  54. 54.

    Napoleon

    @Corner Stone:

    I’m sorry, but there’s a “Democratic strategist” on MSNBC named Krystal Ball.

    I loved her in her previous career as a porn star.

  55. 55.

    FlipYrWhig

    @Corner Stone:

    I’m sorry, but there’s a “Democratic strategist” on MSNBC named Krystal Ball.

    She was my local House candidate in the fall.

  57. 57.

    IM

    my theory is that Marshall started out quite the moderate, DLC-Loving, liberal hawk democrat – links to Kilgore, Sullivan, Kaus, Marschall Wittman – but the Bush years moved him to the left.

  60. 60.

    HyperIon

    @Comrade DougJ wrote:

    Again, this is not something someone over 15 would type.

    I don’t think you and I are using the same intertubes.

    I hardly think my calling someone a moron for writing something I think is moronic is worthy of castigation. But YMMV.

  62. 62.

    Corner Stone

    @Napoleon: Day = made.
    She’s actually a very attractive young woman, even though she equivocated when asked about the birther nonsense. She said words to the effect of “I can see their point.”

  63. 63.

    Napoleon

    @MikeJ:

    I have no idea of what some people would not want to get caught looking at at work but one of them is her husband with a dildo for a nose (it is cleared from some other pictures from some other sites where she is sucking on it).

  65. 65.

    Corner Stone

    @Napoleon: MikeJ apparently has a stick up his ass.
    It’s just common courtesy to announce the potential to others sharing your intertrons. Even if you think two girls, one cup was nothing to write home about.

  67. 67.

    Bob Loblaw

    @SFAW:

    So what’s the deal with the hostility there?

    @Bulworth:

    I don’t know how good Obama is at politics

    Pretty damn good considering he’s the President of the United States and all…

  68. 68.

    mr. whipple

    CA Senate Results, 2010

    Mickey Goatblower Kaus: 123,573 votes 5%

    CA Presidentail results, Obama 2008 8,274,473 votes, 61%.

    Yup, Obama doesn’t know politics.

  70. 70.

    Observer

    Late to the party as usual…

    Question:

    Why does Josh Marshall continue to support these dude?

    Partial Answer:

    Bloggingheads.tv was started in the fall of 2005 by Robert Wright, Mickey Kaus, and Greg Dingle.

    It has some influence.

  74. 74.

    taylormattd

    @IM: That is exactly true. I don’t know if he still does, but Marshall Whittman, or whatever his name is, blogged at the TPMcafe thing all the time. Vomit.

    I still do like the main site, however.

  75. 75.

    MBunge

    The truth is that internet-elites live by very much the same rules that meatworld elites do. Once somebody is a part of that club, they basically have to skullfuck a kitten to get tossed out.

    Mike

  76. 76.

    slag

    @HyperIon: Why is the point moronic? Are you suggesting that having someone who makes overtly racist statements on your blogroll is acceptable in any way? This isn’t about “purity”. This is about someone’s level of comfort with outright bigotry.

  77. 77.

    mr. whipple

    @Corner Stone:

    I disagree. It clearly shows Kaus don’t know shit about politics.

    It does, however, show that blowing goats is detrimental to a career in politics.

  78. 78.

    SFAW

    So what’s the deal with the hostility there?

    What hostility? I want to read inane shit like DougJ’s post, I can always go read something by Jonah. I expect something a little less puerile here.

    I ain’t expecting every post to be Martin Amis, but it would be good if they weren’t Beavis and Butthead caliber, either.

    Of course, I should have started my reply with something like “Bite me”, but I think the irony would have been lost.

    So … beiss mich.

  80. 80.

    SFAW

    It does, however, show that blowing goats is detrimental to a career in politics.

    But as Shakespeare or someone else once said: the plural of anecdote is not data.

  81. 81.

    HyperIon

    @slag:

    This isn’t about “purity”. This is about someone’s level of comfort with outright bigotry.

    Sully is on this site’s blogroll, as several folks have noted. But is anyone saying that John Cole must “answer” for Sully being on the B-J blogroll?

    Sully regularly spouts offensive BS and not just about race. But my response to that is to NEVER go to his site. And to badmouth him whenever I get the chance.

    Demanding that a blogger take someone off a blogroll is a bit like demanding that a commenter be banned IMO. I’m agin it.

    EDIT: And having someone on a blogroll is not the same as approving of that site.

    Clear?

  82. 82.

    slag

    @HyperIon: Yes. It’s clear that you think having someone who makes overtly racist statements on your blogroll is acceptable.

    I can’t imagine how such overt racism persists to this day. Just can’t imagine how that could possibly be.

  84. 84.

    HyperIon

    @slag:

    It’s clear that you think having someone who makes overtly racist statements on your blogroll is acceptable.

    so i am not “pure” enough for you.
    i wish you had addressed the Sully issue.
    oh, well.

  85. 85.

    HyperIon

    @jbb wrote:

    Well, except for the fact that TPM’s (very short) blogroll is called “TPM Approved Sites”

    that is a good point.
    let’s see if TPM responds to DougJ’s post.

    but unlike slag, i don’t think the elimination of Kaus from their blogroll will do much to decrease racism in the blogosphere or the world.

  86. 86.

    Xantar

    @BGinCHI:

    I actually think the quality of TPM’s political reporting has declined greatly. TPMmuckraker does some great work, and I check TPMLivewire a few times every day. But TPMDC has started to fall into the distressing habit of using the Cavuto Mark in their headlines. Not to mention they literally don’t seem to know jack shit about how to interpret polls.

  87. 87.

    Woodrow L. Goode, IV

    @MattR: Arianna used to be a right-wing loony in the 1990’s, back when that seemed to be a good way to get ahead. Her then-husband Michael, ran against Dianne Feinstein in 1994. (Ed Rollins, who ran their campaign, had some scalding remarks about her in his memoir. Thought she was a rank opportunist.)

    Unlike David Brock or Kevin Phillips, I’ve never believed that her conversion was legit. She used to live with Bernard Levin (the English liberal) in the 80’s and I get the impression that she’d switch to fascism, if that became the in thing.

    Josh used to be a DLC/neocon/Village guy. As HyperIon pointed out, his blogroll once had a link to the Bullshit Moose blog– and that certainly wasn’t because Marshall Wittman used to link to him. He began scooting away from those positions in mid-decade– and since he’d never really dealt in red meat, it wasn’t difficult.

    @HyperIon: Technically speaking, Josh didn’t do any reporting— doing research and uncovering new information that no one else had– on Trent Lott, the U.S. Attorneys, Randy “Duke” Cunningham, et al.

    What he was doing– and this had quite a lot of value at the time; I’m not disparaging it– was blogging constantly about the issues and serving as an aggregator and clearinghouse for scads of people who were funneling links to stories other people had done.

    Because JMM had a Village ID card, and TPM was attractively laid out and posts didn’t curse or hurl invective, it was one of the few democratic blogs that Villagers read. People (me included) funneled Josh items simply because we knew it was the only way to get things read by the national media.

    But this piece is the one that got the David Iglesias story going, as this story shows. It was one of Josh’s staffers– not Josh– who spotted it. This was the second piece, and again it’s an MSM story.

    He helped those stories get traction– and I’ll give him credit for figuring out that his readers could be used as stringers. But Democratic Underground was doing just as much of this… but they didn’t have the cachet that TPM did.

  88. 88.

    DannyK

    I admire Mickey Kaus for trafficking in Clinton sex scandals long after all the normal bloggers moved on. Especially the one about Hilary sleeping with her aide, just like in Primary Colors! He’s kind of like Nirvana, reminds me of when I was young and handsome.

  89. 89.

    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)

    @Comrade DougJ:

    The website is a mess but there’s lots of great stuff there, I agree. I don’t care what Marshall’s politics are, he runs a top-notch journalistic enterprise.

    This is exactly why I still read TPM. It’s good journalism, which is sadly lacking of late.

  92. 92.

    2x4 windows

    @Mannahatta: The link went way back to November 14, 2005……

    This brings up the memory when Marshal could write more than 5 sentences.
    Then he would express a view or semi-opinion that seemed to mean something.

    What happened to the insights?

    Did he even care about the issues of the past?
    It does not look like he did as he let them go!

  94. 94.

    SFAW

    Next up: intrepid Balloon Juice commenters investigate TPM’s Approved sub-site devoted to the latest Commodore 64 and Amiga games.

    ETA: Not to mention their Pong site, of course.

  95. 95.

    Robert Waldmann

    Boy was I surprised. When I read “petty, meta, navel-gazing” I thought you were writing about Kaus. Then I read the word “topics.”

    Also what’s this about “[key context deleted to set up my invalid interpretation] five years now” crap.

    Kaus has always been a total utter twit. I can remember reading an ink on paper Tne New Republic and thinking two thoughts

    1) Who is this twit Kaus of whom I have never heard
    2) That’s it. The New Republic has gone to far. I’ll just have to get Kinsley on the ARPA net (or whatever was the latest thing back then — I don’t remember).

    That was soooo long ago that Kinsley was still cool (also bell bottoms, 8 track tapes and mullets).

    Robert Waldmann + 3

  96. 96.

    Mannahatta

    @2×4 windows:

    I don’t think he’s changed the “TPM Approved Sites” in many years. I was just trying to give some context to why he links to those people. I’ve read his blog now for a while and I thought I could Google the post I remembered–that one may have been it.

    In the end, a few links to people that don’t pass the purity test doesn’t really matter nearly as much as the quality (or lack thereof) of the site.

  97. 97.

    Bobby Thomson

    @BGinCHI:

    TPM does great reporting but in general the site has slowed way down. It’s not as up-to-date and is generally ramshackle compared to even a year ago.

    TPM did great reporting. Then Josh became a father and stopped being involved in the day-to-day stuff. TPM just doesn’t do the same kind of investigative reporting that Josh made his bones with. They watch the cable news dailies for story ideas, meaning that Drudge now rules their world, too.

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