Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

In after Baud. Damn.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

The revolution will be supervised.

If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.

Baby steps, because the Republican Party is full of angry babies.

He really is that stupid.

Books are my comfort food!

Washington Post Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

Trump should be leading, not lying.

So fucking stupid, and still doing a tremendous amount of damage.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. keep building.

We will not go back.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

Michigan is a great lesson for Dems everywhere: when you have power…use it!

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

People really shouldn’t expect the government to help after they watched the GOP drown it in a bathtub.

You are here: Home / Politics / Crazification Factor / There’s That Damned Number Again

There’s That Damned Number Again

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Remember the offensive monkey/Obama/birth certificate email sent by the OC teahadist? Guess what:

In an exclusive Eyewitness News poll, SurveyUSA asked Southern Californians familiar with the email whether they found it offensive. Seventy percent said yes, 27 percent said no.

It’s starting to get freaky.

And how could you NOT find that offensive?

(via)

Reader Interactions

165Comments

  3. 3.

    Woodrow "asim" Jarvis Hill

    Damn. Not enough that John Rogers creates a hit show; he also finds the one numerical construct that defines a huge slab of modern America politics.

    And worse, he can’t take credit for it.

  4. 4.

    stuckinred

    This makes it OK:

    “In the statement, Davenport also quoted the Bible and said she was “an imperfect Christian” who tried to “live a Christ-like honoring life.”

  6. 6.

    Lolis

    So Republicans could nominate an illiterate, incontinet, sex offender and still get 27 percent of the vote. I could totally see it.

  7. 7.

    Warren Terra

    I wonder about the methodology with all these surveys – what proportion of respondants just answer in the most obnoxious way possible, regardless of direction? Surely it would be possible to construct a survey to be able to tell whether the participant was being sincere and not just trying to sabotage the (annoying) survey – but it would be a hassle, and all the additional questions required to get that sort of a baseline would (further?) distort the sample to those people willing to answer a lot of questions.

    After all, even those people answering “not offensive” surely realize it’s offensive – it’s just a type of offensiveness that they support. Basically, although it’s clear that something like a quarter of the country is composed of Republican-aligned unmitigated Assholes, and I’m sure that most of the people who responded “not offensive” were in this category, I think this sort of survey is not trivial to interpret.

  9. 9.

    MTmofo

    The ranks of the “28 percenters” from two and a half years ago have not diminished.

  11. 11.

    JGabriel

    John Cole @ Top:

    And how could you NOT find that offensive?

    I find it sickening. Literally. It makes my gag reflex tighten.

    Can we never repost that image again? Ever?

    .

  12. 12.

    lamh34

    @JGabriel:

    Ughhh.

    I honestly hate even looking at that picture just to comment on it. I refuse to even send it to people who I want to rant to about it.

    I have a visceral reaction to just the picture It just feels so personal, like she is literally talking about me and mine.

  14. 14.

    Mojotron

    That photo is like a turing test for racist dogwhistles. “I don’t understand, people said that Bush had simian characteristics all the time!” Fuck you. If you can’t comprehend how comparing a picture of Bush and a monkey wherein he’s actually “aping” that mannerism (and for all intents and purposes there were photos where he was actually picking nits off Laura and eating a banana) versus saying “SEE HE’S DESCENDED FROM MONKEYS!1!!! you’re too stupid to take part in the debate.

  15. 15.

    J

    It is freakish. Also freakish is the way the 27% exerts an influence out of all proportion to the part of the population it makes up. It dominates the Republican party, which in turn calls the most of the shots whether in office or out of it…

  17. 17.

    Warren Terra

    @djork:

    Liberals called Bush a chimp
    __
    [/wingnut]!
    __
    Both sides do it!
    __
    [/pundit]

    Dilbert creator Scott Adams, who because of a sockpuppetry incident can be considered the Internet Moron Of The Week, agrees with this line of reasoning, only more so:

    The same thing is happening with a Republican official who emailed some friends a humorous photo of President Obama’s face on a chimp and a punch line about his birth certificate. If your only context is what the Internet says about this story, you assume it’s a typical racist act by a Republican who is already guilty by association. But if I add the context that Googling “George Bush monkey” gives you over 3 million hits, and most of them are jokes where President Bush’s face is transposed on a monkey, you see what’s really going on. Democrats and advocates of civil rights are using the media to further an agenda at the expense of a woman who was probably so non-racist that the photo in question didn’t set off her alarms as being a career-ending risk.

  19. 19.

    lamh34

    Along the same lines of a having a visceral reaction, I live in DFW so I’ve seen my fair share of “No-Bama” , “Don’t TRead On Me” bumper stickers, but if I’m ever behind someone with a bumper sticker like this:Anti-Obama bumper sticker I’m gonna have to make sure my insurance is paid up, because if I see a bumper sticker like this, I will be hard pressed not to ram the bumper… or key it if it’s in a parking lot!

  20. 20.

    Trainrunner

    1. Scott Adams is clearly a cunty git.

    2. Am I only the one that thinks that the Obama child in the picture is sort of adorable? And how adorable must he truly be to survive rightwing hate-photoshopping?

  21. 21.

    Bob Loblaw

    Carl Paladino sees nothing wrong with that photo, thank you very much. He also wants everyone to know he got more than 27% of the vote in New York.

    He got 33.

    So it’s good to know there are at least a dozen states where being fucking racist still hurts your electability.

  23. 23.

    jeff

    @Mojotron: Well he is descended from monkeys, as are all of us. Plus, I don’t think most racists believe in evolution, which is a quandry I cannot dissolve.

  24. 24.

    MoZeu

    @Warren Terra: Well, the survey doesn’t seem to ask whether they think it would be considered offensive, but rather whether they find it offensive. So clearly a respondent may well understand that it is likely to be considered offensive by others and yet they themselves not be offended by it. see also, Piss Christ and other things that I would honestly answer I do not find offensive.

  25. 25.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @jeff: Really, it is more accurate to say that we, the other apes, and monkeys all descend from a common ancestor.

  27. 27.

    bkny

    that number has been rock solid for at least 4-5 years. there was always that hardcore that stuck with bush regardless.

  28. 28.

    Steve

    Fortunately I have a wingnut Facebook friend who can always be relied upon to supply the counterargument in cases like this. His take is similar to what others have posted.

    The hypocrisy is amazing. Every parasite in the country (blacks, too) called George W. Bush ‘the chimp’ and many depictions, including political cartoons, included ‘chimp-like’ features. I thought it had become but a new colloquialism for a president — the ‘chimp-in-chief’, as it were. But, no, it’s racist if someone calls or depicts little barryo as a chimp. What was that about our post-racial, color-blind society?

    The hallmark of the genuine wingnut is not just an argument that the cartoon is non-racist, but the assertion that anyone who claims otherwise is a disgraceful race-baiter. That’s how you know you have the real deal.

  30. 30.

    ppcli

    how could you NOT find that offensive?

    I guess there’s nothing that can resist the iron law of 27%.

  31. 31.

    JGabriel

    Scott Adams via Warren Terra:

    If your only context is what the Internet says about this story, you assume it’s a typical racist act by a Republican who is already guilty by association. But if I add the context that Googling “George Bush monkey” gives you over 3 million hits, and most of them are jokes where President Bush’s face is transposed on a monkey, you see what’s really going on.

    Shorter Scott Adams:

    White people don’t get upset when they’re called “niggers”, why should blacks?

    .

  33. 33.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    @Mojotron:
    .
    .
    Exactly. And you have correspondingly demonstrated that when progressive and liberal whites criticize President Obama they aren’t necessarily racists. Although it’s always difficult to tell when they’re lying, of course.
    .
    .

  34. 34.

    John Cole

    Can we never repost that image again? Ever?

    I think we should post it often to remember who these people are. A good number of people seem to forget what we are up against and think we have the luxury of sitting out elections.

    How’s that working out for you, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, and New Hampshire?

  35. 35.

    JCT

    @stuckinred:

    “In the statement, Davenport also quoted the Bible and said she was “an imperfect Christian” who tried to “live a Christ-like honoring life.”

    Yeah, what racist email pic would Jesus send? Sounds like she needs to try a lot harder.

    Once again, invoke Christ and receive your “free pass card” or “get out of jail free” if you live in Arkansas.

    What a waste of protoplasm.

  36. 36.

    Matt Mangels

    How could you NOT find that offensive? Read what you quoted John:

    SurveyUSA asked Southern Californians

    I’m showing my NorCal bias here, but I don’t care. SoCal, Orange County in particular, is full of conservatives and consequently racists. I’d say it probably goes back to San Diego being a big military town.

  39. 39.

    JGabriel

    @John Cole:

    I think we should post it often to remember who these people are. A good number of people seem to forget what we are up against and think we have the luxury of sitting out elections.

    I get that argument. But let’s save it for election season then. No point in robbing it of its power to sicken, disgust, and motivate people by overposting it and making it banal.

    .

  41. 41.

    Marmot

    If it’s anti-Obama in any way, that 27 percent is gonna approve.

    And I’d prefer never to see that again. It’s bad enough that monkeys and apes were the go-to stereotype for Black people in popular culture as recently as the ’50s. But what’s worse is that your average Tea Partier is likely old enough to remember those days, and still they don’t get why it’s a racist thing to do.

  42. 42.

    zuzu (not that one, the other one)

    @Mojotron: No, it’s not that it’s offensive because it’s saying Obama is descended from monkeys, it’s because there’s a widespread racist meme that black people are subhuman, primitive apes and not fully evolved humans.

    There isn’t a corresponding belief about white people in general, certainly not about the upper crust. So people can call Bush a chimp all the livelong day, and it’s simply rude. Funny, but rude. But because of that whole subhuman-ape thing about black people, the context of the insult is different for Obama.

  44. 44.

    The Dangerman

    @Matt Mangels:

    I’d say it probably goes back to San Diego being a big military town.

    I don’t know about living behind the Orange Curtain (no, not Boehner’s draperies), but I’ll attribute San Diego to the fact that if you want to live in that County, you had better be loaded. Kinda like how Palm Springs runs to the Right…

  46. 46.

    lamh34

    @John Cole:

    I get what ur saying John, and ur probably right, but this kinda reminds me of the teacher making the Black students act like slaves as a part of a history lesson and the white kids were the slave owners.

    My objection to the teacher was that as AA, it’s probably more true that the AA students do NOT need to be reminded of the evils of slavery. They are probably taught about the “American Black experience” from the moment they can understand words.

    This situation kinda parallels that. As an AA, I dpm’t need to be reminded of who these people are. They been the same since before Obama’s candidacy, election and presidency. It’s just more broadly reported on now because of Obama.

    So I do understand why you’d want to continue posting this pic. I still can’t stand to look at it..sorry.

  48. 48.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steve:

    I’m still waiting for the people making that argument to show us the picture where George and Barbara Sr. were portrayed as apes or monkeys.

    Because that’s where the true offensiveness of the picture is. It’s not just calling President Obama a monkey (bad as that is), it’s calling his actual ancestry into question, and it’s continuing the racist tradition of saying that Africans and African-Americans are less human than white people are.

    @jeff:

    Plus, I don’t think most racists believe in evolution, which is a quandry I cannot dissolve.

    They don’t believe that white people are descended from apes. They completely believe that “lesser” people are because, after all, they’re not quite human or they wouldn’t have that color skin, amirite?

    ETA: Or, what zuzu said.

  50. 50.

    MD Rackham

    @Matt Mangels: As a resident of Orange County, I can confirm that there are many racists here, although they seem to expend most of their energy railing against Latinos. But there’s more than enough left over for AA’s.

    (My Obama and “No on 8” yard signs permanently damaged my relationship with my neighbors. One won’t even speak to me now. But he’s a real estate agent, so it’s a net gain.)

  51. 51.

    Gina

    @stuckinred: I didn’t take it that way at all! Now, if you’d gone off and called me an asshole, and slammed me for stuff you imagined I’d said though I didn’t write it, yeah, that’d be stupid.

  52. 52.

    Marmot

    @Matt Mangels: I’m with you, Matt. I’m from Texas and when I lived in SoCal I was shocked at the conservatism and the resentment of people who supposedly leeched off the system with extra babies and welfare fraud and so on.

    I blame it on the aerospace industry — a leech off the government if ever there was one — and the settlement of Orange County by homogeneous midwest farmers. (Not that midwesterners are racists necessarily — but homogeneous groups are the worst.)

  53. 53.

    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik

    @JCT:

    It’s shit like that and the total warping of the very concept of ‘Christ-like’ that keeps me from ever considering myself a ‘Christian’ these days. It’s seriously amazing what folks can justify by saying ‘THE BIBLE WILLS IT SO!’. Too many goddamn Christians carrying the mantle while perverting or ignoring the very words of the Christ they so claim to worship.

    Then again, this is why I take all religions by their philosophies and shuck the mysticism anywho.

  56. 56.

    burnspbesq

    @Matt Mangels:

    “I’m showing my NorCal bias here, but I don’t care. SoCal, Orange County in particular, is full of conservatives and consequently racists. I’d say it probably goes back to San Diego being a big military town.”

    That’s not bias, but it is a prime example of ignorant NoCal condescension. You have everyone from SLO southward’s permission to shut your ignorant pie-hole.

  57. 57.

    Mike

    It seems that the crazification factor needs to be redefined as the crazification constant.

    Too bad about Scott Adams. I really liked Dilbert, but it’s hard to like him now that I know he’s a republican. You’d think that with all the misery corporate America has put on Dilbert, he’d be more pro worker, but the propaganda machines make it easy to blame other scapegoats for his problems.

    There are so many Republicans that simply shouldn’t be Republicans, but years of race baiting and distraction have taken their toll.

  59. 59.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    Having been raised in a Rainbow family and being truly “color blind” I look at something like this and weep, it sickens me, and what I would like to do to people who send this stuff is not pretty. You do stuff like this you insult my family, you insult me, you deserve every single bit of backlash that you get. Go ahead issue your false “apology” you aged f**king racist. Your kind is headed for extinction. You will not be missed.

  60. 60.

    eemom

    @Uncle Clarence Thomas:

    And you have correspondingly demonstrated that when progressive and liberal whites criticize President Obama they aren’t necessarily racists.

    no, actually that doesn’t demonstrate anything of the kind. You’re missing four or five steps of logic there — unless you are actually saying that something most decent people would recognize as a display of overt, in-your-face, 1950s era racism, which nonetheless passes for a “dog whistle” among liars and idiots — “demonstrates” that racism in more subtle 21st century forms doesn’t exist at all. Which makes you even more of an idiot than I thought.

  64. 64.

    JGabriel

    @Gina:

    Srsly, was more worried, not recommending.

    Sorry if I offended with my language. I was trying to point out the ugliness of Adams’ argument by making the subtext text. Photoshopping a black person’s face onto the body of a chimp strikes me as the visual equivalent of the n-word.

    .

  65. 65.

    Mnemosyne

    @eemom:

    Well, you have to admit that a white guy who calls himself Uncle Clarence Thomas is clearly far more qualified to judge what’s racist and what isn’t than any black person.

    I love the pie filter, because now I only have to read his bullshit if someone else quotes it.

  66. 66.

    gnomedad

    @JGabriel:
    Scott Adams:

    When the low end of the media conspired with unscrupulous advocates to label the aforementioned Republican woman a racist, they probably killed her career, and they might end up killing her too.

    Complaints about the crosshairs made Sarah Palin the real victim of the Arizona shootings, but calling a racist a racist is virtual incitement to murder.

  68. 68.

    gwangung

    Too bad about Scott Adams. I really liked Dilbert, but it’s hard to like him now that I know he’s a republican.

    Some folks have long known he was an evolution denier, so….not surprising at all. Just another pattern writ large.

  69. 69.

    jprfrog

    Being “saved” is not a get-out-of-jail-free card. It’s a get-out-of-hell-free card that can be played again and again, and is. Whatever the sin, Jesus forgives you and you are free to do it all over again. Some deal!

  70. 70.

    Bob Loblaw

    @stuckinred:

    You’re making a tactical mistake here. You’re just going to have to keep explaining over and over again why I’m “on your shit list.” Or else outside observers are gonna think you’re the one who’s being unreasonable. And that would be tragic.

  71. 71.

    Phoebe

    And how could you NOT find that offensive?

    If you found it adorable!!!
    <3<3!!

    I need a drink.

  73. 73.

    Jeffro

    sorta O/T, but Karl Rove trying to explain on Fox today how he was giving Trump’s people an ‘out’ and get Trump away from the birther issue is a mighty big tell.

    [paraphrased] “I tell him, say you’ve said all you’re gonna say on the (birther) issue, and you want to focus on the deficit, the debt, and respect for America. Otherwise, you’re marginalizing someone who could contribute to the debate.”

    Next up for the next 18 months (as if we didn’t already know this): Respect-A-Thon 2012!! ;)

  74. 74.

    arguingwithsignposts

    I haven’t read all the way through the thread yet, but could we perhaps *not* post the photo again? Now back to read what people say.

    ETA: I see this has been addressed earlier. so pls disregard.

  75. 75.

    eemom

    as for the Scott Adams thing, I saw that earlier today and thought WTF?? Was Corner Stoned asleep on the job? Tee hee.

  79. 79.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    @Warren Terra: Somebody ought have Scott Adams have a sit down with Boondocks creator Aaron McGruder. As a matter of fact I wish Boondocks was back

  80. 80.

    Matt Mangels

    @burnspbesq: You have everyone from SLO southward’s permission to shut your ignorant pie-hole.

    Ok. If I stop running my mouth in this thread will you guys stop stealing our water and figure out a way to get it on your own? Deal?

  82. 82.

    eemom

    @Bob Loblaw:

    just a wild guess, but perhaps because you insulted a Vietnam war veteran on the Nixonland thread by making the utterly assholish and moronic suggestion that comments about Vietnam are, um, out of place in a discussion about the Nixon era?

  87. 87.

    Mojotron

    I’ve seen this pic posted a few places recently and there’s been a few people who have said “I don’t understand, what’s the big deal?” and several dozen people have explained to them in great detail what the big deal actually was, yet there’s never been any response or acknowledgement on their part because they’re not actually trying to understand. Scott Adams being a perfect example. I can’t remember when I agreed with eemom on something, but she nailed it above- this is 1950s era racism, which only passes for a “dog whistle” among liars and idiots.

  88. 88.

    The Dangerman

    @Matt Mangels:

    If I stop running my mouth in this thread will you guys stop stealing our water and figure out a way to get it on your own?

    I’d buy in, but your side has to give us back Hetch Hetchy ;-)

  89. 89.

    James Hare

    @Mike: It is very interesting that the 27% figure works in so many contexts. I almost think it might be an artifact of polling. Certainly some of those people are just messing with the pollster, right?

  90. 90.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @James Hare:

    I almost think it might be an artifact of polling. Certainly some of those people are just messing with the pollster, right?

    It’s the telephony equivalent of a flash mob.

  91. 91.

    trollhattan

    @burnspbesq:

    Don’t wander into Oroville or Red Bluff or Redding or Tracy or Modesto or Fresno or Bakersfield or most towns on Highway 49. Shockingly backwards. Admittedly, these are outposts and not the power base. Orange county I can’t ‘splain.

  92. 92.

    Bob Loblaw

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    You’ve never seen his picture? Google it. Epic pedo-stache.

    @eemom:

    Clearly I know the origins of the feud. But you’re right, if there’s one thing you can never get enough of, it’s people reminiscing about their protesting days in the 60s and 70s.

  93. 93.

    Citizen_X

    @gwangung: I could live with Adams being a Republican and a Creationist. But on top of that, and everything else, is the unearned self-regard and arrogance of someone who refers to himself as a “certified genius.”

    Sorry to harp on that Salon link again, but it also includes this quote, where he justifies his deceiving everybody:

    Conflict of interest is like a prison that locks in both the truth and the lies. One workaround for that problem is to change the messenger. That’s where an alias comes in handy. When you remove the appearance of conflict of interest, it allows others to listen to the evidence without judging.

    He’s just too plain stupid to understand what “conflict of interest” means! But no, Scott, you’re a certified genius.

    For years, I thought Dilbert was about being controlled by high-status idiots. Turns out Dilbert would end up just as thick-headed once he’s made boss.

  98. 98.

    Matt Mangels

    @trollhattan: I have spent A LOT of time in Oroville (used to have family there), so I know what it’s like. However, even I was a bit taken aback when I saw a billboard on the side of the road from Chico to Oroville for CA senate candidate Doug LaMalfa. His campaign slogan? “He’s one of us”. Did it work? Sure looks like it.

  100. 100.

    trollhattan

    @The Dangerman:

    It CAN be done.

    hetchhetchy.org/

    It won’t, but it can. A small reason: Asshat, small-gummint carpetbagger Rep. Tom McClintock is trying to resurrect Auburn Dam ($12+B and sited on an earthquake fault) and halting removal of several old dams already in process. Nobody’s touching HH, sadly. (Although it’s both DiFi’s and Nancy SMASH’s town, so you’d think a Republican would love to snatch their water thingie.)

  101. 101.

    Ruckus

    @burnspbesq:
    Take it easy on him, he probably didn’t see the 6-8 foot long stars and bars flying from the back of a jacked up pickup in 2008. In Marin county. Which votes 73% D regularly.
    Wait that’s 27% not D.
    There are racist assholes everywhere. Some places have a larger percentage but as far as I can tell they are everywhere.

  102. 102.

    General Stuck

    this shit is going to get real ugly before it’s done

    but i reluctantly have to agree with Cole on this one, as much as that pains me, it needs to be kept front and center along with all of the ugly that is yet to come, but surely will

  103. 103.

    eemom

    @Bob Loblaw:

    if there’s one thing you can never get enough of, it’s people reminiscing about their protesting days in the 60s and 70s.

    No. If there’s one thing I can never get enough of, it’s people having a bit of decent respect for war veterans. Just enough to, say, refrain from making gratuitously obnoxious comments when they discuss the war in which they served.

  104. 104.

    Left Coast Tom

    @Omnes Omnibus: As a northern Californian, I’d be happy to see Hetch Hetchy be a valley again. Here’s a free argument: SF doesn’t live up to it’s obligations under the Raker Act because it doesn’t have a public power system. Therefore, give the valley back.

    Can I bash Orange County now?

  105. 105.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Ruckus: I just watched one try to pick a fight with 3 AA high school students/college freshman right off the Capitol Square in Madison. Dudes would have kicked his ass if they hadn’t been as forbearing as they turned out to be.

  106. 106.

    trollhattan

    @Matt Mangels:

    Jesus, nice slideshow. I wonder why he’s wielding a sissy shotgun and not a big ol’ 50-cal?

    A friend was Oroville redevelopment director for a few years. Stories: he haz dem.

  107. 107.

    eemom

    @Citizen_X:

    But no, Scott, you’re a certified genius.

    Kind of reminds one of Wile E. Coyote, Super Genius. And we all know what happened to him….

  110. 110.

    Left Coast Tom

    @Omnes Omnibus: There’s a little more to it…

    In terms of water transport in California, generally (central coast is an exception because no state-wide plumbing was built there), if you’re south of the Delta you’re receiving water, if you’re north of the Delta you’re giving it. The Bay Area is south of the Delta, but culturally it’s certainly northern California (people in Monterey (central coast) will insist that they, too, are northern CA, geography be damned). When I moved to the Bay Area in the ’80s I heard longtime residents complain about those water thieves in LA stealing “our” water (Orange County is LA…San Diego is down there, somewhere).

    I must bash Orange County for cultural reasons. But the water issue remains complicated.

  111. 111.

    General Stuck

    @Bob Loblaw:

    Is it your only purpose on this blog, to flit from one thread to the next to insult people you don’t like. Talk about no life. pathetic

  112. 112.

    Gina

    I saw this paper (it’s a pdf link) mentioned on Fark, the following quote intrigued me:

    Finally, just to take this to its ludicrous extreme, I asked for reactions to a “law to eliminate right-wing authoritarians.” (I told the subjects that right-wing authoritarians are people who are so submissive to authority, so aggressive in the name of authority, and so conventional that they may pose a threat to democratic rule.) RWA scale scores did not connect as solidly with joining this posse as they had in the other cases. Surely some of the high RWAs realized that if they supported this law, they were being the very people whom the law would persecute, and the posse should therefore put itself in jail. But not all of them realized this, for authoritarian followers still favored, more than others did, a law to persecute themselves. You can almost hear the circuits clanking shut in their brains: “If the government says these people are dangerous, then they’ve got to be stopped.”

    I wonder if the number of high RWAs who approved was the magic 27%. I’ve just started reading…

  113. 113.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I’ve often wondered if a lot some people who don’t see this as a racist issue just don’t care one way or the other? And aren’t going to spend anytime trying to figure it out.
    I came up with a little scale about racists a number of years ago.
    1. Overt. Would/have joined KKK. Will pick fights with AA for only one reason. Think this pic is funny, true or both.
    2. Closet. Don’t go out of their way to be racist but sure aren’t going to consider looking at the issue any other way.
    3. Stupid. Just following the herd around them.
    4. Defected/enlightened. Used to be but looked around a had an oh fuck I’ve been an idiot moment. Some people can grow. George Wallace might fit into this group.

    Haven’t figured out any reason that any of this makes any difference except for #4

  114. 114.

    Phoebe

    @Trainrunner: Yes, and I made my comment before I read yours. I don’t know what to think about myself. I know the picture is horrible, I’m not a 27 percenter, but.. aw! So cute with the ears and the overalls!

  115. 115.

    danimal

    @John Cole: If the roles were reversed, and Obama were Republican, the GOP Wurlitzer would make sure that every American saw that picture 10-50 times, along with detailed explanations about all the reasons it is an offensive, racist document. They would pimp the hell out of it so that every person even remotely flirting with birtherism would be guilty by association. And the Dems would not be able to effectively rebut them.

    They play for keeps; we’re afraid to expose their offensiveness.

  116. 116.

    The Dangerman

    @trollhattan:

    It won’t, but it can.

    I’m hopeful; eventually, desal will be in play (it will HAVE to be, eventually) and, perhaps then, we can all take a sledgehammer to the dam. One hit, $10. Pay down the debt.

  117. 117.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    @eemom:
    .
    .

    no, actually that doesn’t demonstrate anything of the kind. You’re missing four or five steps of logic there

    Lady Eeve, it most certainly does. The only “four or five steps” of “logic” I’m missing must be exclusively balloonbagger logic – which is no logic at all. Now, if you’d care to use that openly gaping big mouth of yours to back up your big talk and actually list these supposed “four or five steps of logic” for us, I will certainly be so kind as to consider them. If not, I will understand your reluctance to be corrected in public. Also too, I understand that balloonbaggers are notoriously lazy, especially intellectually.

    Your ancillary dishonest theorizing about what my point was is hereby laughed out of court. Since you have so many reading comprehension difficulties, I will assist you by quoting myself – “[W]hen progressive and liberal whites criticize President Obama they aren’t necessarily racists.” Feel free to try to “refudiate” that point as well with your balloonbagger truthiness. (But NB the qualifying use of “necessarily.”)

    Again, per Mojotron, if you can’t comprehend how these situations logically parallel one another, as he described them, “then you’re too stupid to take part in the debate.”
    .
    .

  118. 118.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    Pretty crappy ‘shop, you can see where they covered up George Jr’s. face.

    George Sr. and Barbara look good though!

  119. 119.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    @Mnemosyne:
    .
    .

    I love the pie filter, because now I only have to read his bullshit if someone else quotes it.

    Of course you do. Balloonbaggers and FoxNews fans take similar approaches.
    .
    .

  121. 121.

    El Cid

    I think the deal with 27% is that it’s a good rounding point between 25% and 30%.

    A quarter of Americans supporting neo-Confederate feudal free market inquitionism is just not quite enough.

    Thirty percent is too many.

    27.5% is just right.

    It means that all you have to do is get the 27%-ers to vote for something, and then just add 25% on to win.

  122. 122.

    matoken_chan

    Time for 666 to shuffle off to Buffalo. 27 is the new number of the Beast. (Shuddup, Brandon Marshall!)

  123. 123.

    Cerberus

    @Uncle Clarence Thomas:

    Hey cool, it’s the Scott Adams defense.

    “No, no, you see, the demonstration of my own idiocy and the fail that follows is actually proof that I’m the certified super-genius and that you fell for my clever joke.”

    And the difference you missed is the difference of a lighted cross on some Fundie’s roof at Christmas and a burning cross on a black family’s porch.

    Inability to notice racism this overt, stark, and classless (for fuck’s sake, they added Birtherism which is in and of itself one of the most nakedly racist conspiracy theories in a good long while) is one stop proof of a racism so strong that it borders on cartoonish. The kind seen by poorly written souther villains in a shmaltzy “isn’t racism bad, kids” sort of movie.

    As such, the only thing it demonstrates is that you or your troll persona (I’m guessing some overprivileged douchenozzle inventing a deliberately racist persona because they didn’t like something ABL said to them) are unworthy of debate or even human existence.

    On the plus side, your views are every year closer to the grave, chased there by kids happily fucking kids of different colors, listening to rap music, and nodding sadly at the cartoon villains cause “shit, man, no one is like that anymore.”

    So, let that thought carry you into slumber. Every damn night.

  124. 124.

    Cerberus

    Now ignoring the troll and responding to the post.

    It’s fundamentally eerie how that number seems to appear constantly.

    It is at the point where I wonder if it won’t appear in genuine scholarship in the field of sociology and the “27% rule” will eventually be considered an actual theory rather than a spookily accurate hypothesis.

  125. 125.

    Splitting Image

    I’m going to chime in and agree with everyone who thinks that no one should make any special attempts to keep that photo in circulation.

    The problem is that if the Republicans see that the libtard Democrat party is really upset by this, they’ll keep using it, and they’ve got their defense all ready to go.

    If people let this fade from memory, they’ll try to come up with something even more offensive. Politically, it would probably be wiser to let them.

  126. 126.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    Yes, we called Bush a chimp. Yes, it was offensive. That was the goddamned point. The man was a dangerous moron who deserved to be mocked and scorned. It wasn’t about his race, it was about his sub-human cranial capacity.

    I’m just surprised that people are surprised, or even disappointed. It hasn’t been that many years since David Fucking Duke held office. There are millions of people on the right and the left who just can’t fucking deal with the idea of one of those people being in charge.

  127. 127.

    El Cid

    @Cerberus: Apparently the “27 percent rule” has been used in evaluating student testing. The idea was to take a particular question or problem, and see if it’s reliable and/or at the appropriate learning level.

    One of the tools used in the evaluation process is an item analysis. It is used to “Test the Test”. It ensures testing instruments measure the required behaviors needed by the learners to perform a task to standard. When evaluating tests we need to ask the question: Do the scores on the test provide information that is really useful and accurate in evaluating student performance? The item analysis provides information about the reliability and validity of test items and learner performance. Item Analysis has two purposes (Brown & Frederick, 1971): First, to identify defective test items and secondly, to pinpoint the learning materials (content) the learners have and have not mastered, particularly what skills they lack and what material still causes them difficulty.
    __
    Item Analysis is performed by comparing the proportion of learners who pass an test item in contrasting criterion groups. That is, for each question on a test, how many learners with the highest test scores (U) answered the question correctly or incorrectly compared with the learners who had the lowest test scores (L)?
    __
    The upper (U) and lower (L) criterion groups are selected from the extremes of the distribution. The use of very extreme groups, say the upper and lower 10 percent, would result in a sharper differentiation, but it would reduce the reliability of the results because of the small number of cases utilized.
    __
    In a normal distribution, the optimum point at which these two conditions balance out is 27 percent (Kelly, 1939).
    __
    NOTE: With the large and normally distributed samples used in the development of standardized tests, it is customary to work with the upper and lower 27 percent of the criterion distribution.
    __
    Many of the tables used for the computation of item validity indices are based on the assumption that the “27 percent rule” has been followed. Also, if the total sample contains 370 cases, the U and L groups will each include exactly 100 cases, thus preventing the necessity of computing percentages. For this reason it is desirable in a large test item analysis to use a sample of 370 persons.

    So, we can obviously eliminate the high-gravity wingnuts from the top 27% of sanes; and they include the super-duper-ultra-extreme crazies at 1 or 5 or 10%.

    We want to capture more than an even 1/4 of the sample group, so that when the upper and lower bounds are added, it’s more than 50%. I’m not sure that the upper 27% of the sanes are that interesting. Or that it would be very noticeable as you went from 25% sanest to the 1% sanest.

    So we’re capturing a broad enough range of the ultra-right crazies to encompass the entire group, though we’re of course losing some of the richness of the extreme end.

  128. 128.

    El Cid

    @Grumpy Code Monkey: If there were any times I felt like being offended by calling the scheming-but-callously-ignorant Bush Jr. a “chimp” was when I thought it seemed to refer to actual chimps rather than just a chimp-like gait and hooting and grunting noises.

    Maybe Old World ape comparisons are an insulting and hurtful stereotype for Pseudo-Texan-Americans.

  130. 130.

    celticdragonchick

    @Mojotron:

    I’ve seen this pic posted a few places recently and there’s been a few people who have said “I don’t understand, what’s the big deal?” and several dozen people have explained to them in great detail what the big deal actually was, yet there’s never been any response or acknowledgement on their part because they’re not actually trying to understand. Scott Adams being a perfect example. I can’t remember when I agreed with eemom on something, but she nailed it above- this is 1950s era racism, which only passes for a “dog whistle” among liars and idiots.

    I concur on all counts. I can’t remember ever agreeing with eemom…but I have to go with her on this one.

  132. 132.

    eemom

    to whoever can’t remember ever agreeing with me before: if you ever agree with me again, plz keep it to yourself. I’m not proud of your concurrence. kthxbai.

  134. 134.

    hamletta

    Fuck Scott Adams and his fucking cartoon.

    I’ve always thought he was an asshole. “Haha, isn’t your soulless job hilarious? Just lie back and enjoy the lulz!”

    Back in the day, there were these insipid jokes that used to circulate via fax; now they’ve probably moved to e-mail along with the glurge, but I always thought they were insidious.

    They were always, “haha, our job sucks,” but never asked why. They didn’t punch down, but they didn’t punch up, either. They just stewed in their pathetic powerlessness.

  135. 135.

    celticdragonchick

    @eemom:

    to whoever can’t remember ever agreeing with me before: if you ever agree with me again, plz keep it to yourself. I’m not proud of your concurrence. kthxbai.

    Cool. I can get back to mocking your obnoxious, self important inanity. kthxbai.

  137. 137.

    The Populist

    It seemed that many people thought Bush was the bestest darn president we ever had, so no surprise at all.

  140. 140.

    alwhite

    @Mike:
    I was at a trade show back in 91-92 and Adams was the guest speaker. At the time he talked a lot about labor/management issues and had a very good understanding of reality. I do not know if it is that he has been a millionaire for many years or the disease the took his voice for a decade but something has happened to him that has turned him into a True Believer(tm), a Randian asshole, teabaggin’ Republican.

    I used to read his blog but it became increasingly difficult to forgive him this exact sort of shit. I quit about 2 years ago. I still read Dilbert every day but I have to not associate it with him.

    I really think with any ‘art’ (allow me a broad brush here please) the less you know about the creator, the less you hear from them, the more you can just enjoy the work. Musicians, actors, writers should have their work stand on its own.

  141. 141.

    Chris

    @J:

    Also freakish is the way the 27% exerts an influence out of all proportion to the part of the population it makes up. It dominates the Republican party, which in turn calls the most of the shots whether in office or out of it…

    This. I’m not angry at the 27%ers so much as I am at the many non-27%ers who listen politely and attentively to what they say no matter how unhinged or racist it may be.

  142. 142.

    Chris

    @Warren Terra:

    Democrats and advocates of civil rights are using the media to further an agenda at the expense of a woman who was probably so non-racist that the photo in question didn’t set off her alarms as being a career-ending risk.

    I love how they think ignorance is suddenly a defense in this case.

    Here’s how you tell, by the way. After sending out a picture like this, reading the backlash and finding out that it’s in fact about as racist as using the N word in conversation, an honestly ignorant but well meaning person will say “I’m sorry, I honestly didn’t know, I promise I won’t do it again.” An actual racist will backtrack through eleven different variations of “but of course I didn’t mean it that way” and get invited onto Fox News, all without even a trace of apology or remorse. Guess which one this POS did.

  143. 143.

    kay

    @danimal:

    If the roles were reversed, and Obama were Republican, the GOP Wurlitzer would make sure that every American saw that picture 10-50 times, along with detailed explanations about all the reasons it is an offensive, racist document. They would pimp the hell out of it so that every person even remotely flirting with birtherism would be guilty by association. And the Dems would not be able to effectively rebut them.

    I agree.

    This is a “70% issue”, as Newt Gingrich says, and conservatives are on the wrong side of that. Fifteen conservative columnists would be spitting out words on the bigotry on the Left, and Pelosi would be asked if she “agrees” with it at her next press conference.

  144. 144.

    kay

    @danimal:

    Which makes me wonder. Why don’t media ever ask Obama about the Tea Party bigotry docs that keep turning up?

    They ask him about race every time a black person does…anything. Because he knows all of them, personally:)

    Weirdly selective, how they insist he keep weighing in on race only when the “questions” or “concerns” can’t possibly offend white people.

  145. 145.

    Buckethead

    It was actually John Rogers’ friend Tyrone who noticed the Crazification Factor:

    “John: Hey, Bush is now at 37% approval. I feel much less like Kevin McCarthy screaming in traffic. But I wonder what his base is —

    Tyrone: 27%.

    John: … you said that immediately, and with some authority.

    Tyrone: Obama vs. Alan Keyes. Keyes was from out of state, so you can eliminate any established political base; both candidates were black, so you can factor out racism; and Keyes was plainly, obviously, completely crazy. Batshit crazy. Head-trauma crazy. But 27% of the population of Illinois voted for him. They put party identification, personal prejudice, whatever ahead of rational judgment. Hell, even like 5% of Democrats voted for him. That’s crazy behaviour. I think you have to assume a 27% Crazification Factor in any population.”

    kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2007/01/repost-crazification-factor.html

  146. 146.

    estamm

    @MoZeu: Good point. I was thinking of adding a comment that I personally am not insulted by the image, but I would not in a thousand million years ever send this to anyone I know. And I can easily understand why millions of people would find this deeply offensive. Sometimes you can only understand something at a deep level if you are member of the offended group. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t understand at a surface level how they might feel. Kinda like Piss Christ. I’m not offended by Piss Christ, but I can understand why others might be. (On the other hand, the people who are offended by Piss Christ might need to also think about why the artist did what he did. Kinda like a double reverse offense.) The idiot Rethuglican who sent this obviously has zero empathy for anyone except for older white conservatives.

  149. 149.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @NobodySpecial: Is there some authority out there certifying people as geniuses? I suppose the MacArthur Foundation would qualify.

    ETA: I don’t see Adams on the list of grant recipients.

  150. 150.

    Woodrowfan

    tell the wingnuts to do a little thought experiment. If that were, say, Clarence Thomas or Colin Powell instead of Obama would they think it racist? Hell yes they would. If it were Bill Clinton instead of Obama what would a Democrat say? Probably that it was dumb, but not racist.

  151. 151.

    Paul in KY

    @hamletta: His cartoons can be funny. However, alot of it is gallows humor & if you are a cubicle dweller (as I am) it can get pretty depressing at times.

    I think I’m going to donate my Dilbert books to goodwill.

  152. 152.

    pk

    You know, next time when you put an ugly racist picture up it would be good have a pic of the ugly racist who sent it. I want to see the superior Aryan features. She is being described as a “sweet old lady”. I am thinking old blond hag (does that make me a racist too?). Have not been able to find one of her anywhere.

  153. 153.

    kerFuFFler

    @John Cole: Agreed! It’s important to see just how ugly and racist the GOP has become. This is but one of many incidents where Republicans in some official capacity or other have spread offensive and racist imagery and “jokes” about Obama. It’s not just some voters or rally attendees that the GOP has no control over; this ugliness runs throughout the GOP party bureaucracy.

  154. 154.

    YoYosarian

    gwb=chimp
    Obama=monkey

    There is no equavalent racist remark that can be made against caucasians. There is no “n” word for whites.

    Bush as “Chimpy” was for his appearance and his antics. Yes, we were, at worst, disrespectful.

    Obama as monkey, argued by any reasonable honest adult, has its roots in deep-seeded hate for black people by equating them with animals (specifically, animal in intellect and action).

    gwb and family were disrespected. Obama’s race, which includes billions of people, has been insulted.

    Not equal.

  155. 155.

    SweetNostrils, fka Scuffletuffle

    Would someone please do this pic with the Phelps family heads photoshopped in? Or would that be too insulting to chimps?

  156. 156.

    celticdragonchick

    @eemom:

    By your vast superior in mockery.

    You might want to rethink your sentence construction, sweetie.

    Hugs and kisses 2u2, snookums.

  158. 158.

    Elie

    While I find the pic offensive, it is not wrong to point out that liberals indeed mocked Bush with the same label – me included. Also good to remember that Abraham Lincoln was called either a monkey or a baboon by various opponents. I tried to find a link but couldn’t though I remember this referenced during Ken Burns’ Civil War series.

    While I support John’s point that we need to remember the racism underlying the motivations of many on the right, I also think its important to ignore such taunts and not get too distracted by them. Taunts like these are always, no matter what the source, us or them, based in a type of fear. It evokes such an emotional response in us when all we need to remember is that it reflects fear and is needed to make the object of their fear less threatenning.

    I wish that such a pic would not be circulated, that we were more evolved and able to face our fears and concerns more constructively. Aint gonna happen. Maybe there is some way to turn it on its head – to work with the label and defuse it…Its really so stupid

  159. 159.

    shortstop

    @Ruckus: Insofar as the guy’s original point was that Orange County is full of racists, which it is, and NorCal is less so, which it is, I’m not sure what news your comment is bringing to us.

    Do we now need to add a “*but there are racists other places, too!” note every time we point out that some places are congregation centers for them, just to try (and fail) to circumvent the mad explosions of WyldeBedfordePyratt and the pursed lips of Frank “I Will Never Stop Defending the Honor of Any Demographic I’m In; Fuck All the Demographics That Don’t Apply to Me” Burns?

    I wish people didn’t feel the need to take all this shit so personally. Y’all don’t hear me whining about how other city governments are corrupt, too, and yelling that I’m an honest person every time someone bashes Chicago’s dirtiness.

  161. 161.

    kay

    @Elie:

    I also think its important to ignore such taunts and not get too distracted by them.

    Has that ever worked in the history of the world when dealing with bullies?
    Conservatives are vulnerable on this, as a political movement and US political Party, on bigotry. The US, despite their most fervent hopes and dreams, is diverse.
    I think we should pound them over the head with this at each and every opportunity. I’m not ordering them to compose bigoted, repuslive emails and send them out. They’re doing that, with some regularity.
    This is strike three for this woman. She’s done this, or something a lot like this, three times now. They can’t seem to stop doing it. Why shouldn’t I take advantage of that?

  162. 162.

    kay

    @Elie:

    Too, Elie, I think commercial media are pimping because Birther stories, and birthers, are profitable.

    I don’t know if they’re popular in a freak show way, or what the deal is, but we’ve been subjected to three solid years of Birther ranting, almost daily. Someone is making a buck off this.

    This woman says her email was inspired by the wholly fake controversy over Obama’s birthplace that commercial media have promoted and exploited.

    This is what Birtherism looks like. This is what Donald Trump looks like. It’s not zany or funny or interesting. It’s brutal.

    I think people should SEE it.

  163. 163.

    Ruckus

    @shortstop:
    He gave the impression that NorCal doesn’t have racists. He is wrong and that is what I was pointing out, that not only do we have them but they are open and brazen about it. Being born/raised in southern CA and living in northern CA, I have heard this many times before. And it is a false a mime as any. I live in one of the most democratic voting counties in the state and have had conversations with conservatives that sound just like a faux news commercial.

    And yes every time it is posted it should be called out, just like the picture Cole is asking about here. If you live in a town/city with rampant corruption it should be called out. That may be dangerous but the only disinfectant in politics is sunlight. Cause not talking about it, not noticing it, allows it to fester till what ever is being hidden takes over.
    Other than that why are you taking this so personally? You live 2500 miles away. If you don’t like my comments scroll on by or install cleek’s pie filter.

  164. 164.

    shortstop

    @Ruckus:

    He gave the impression that NorCal doesn’t have racists.

    No, he didn’t. He said Orange County is full of ’em and implied that NorCal has fewer than Davenport’s area does. All true, and any “impression” you got that makes this a zero-sum proposition reflects your own baggage.

    And it is a false a mime as any.

    Aw, why you gotta do Marcel Marceau that way?

    And yes every time it is posted it should be called out, just like the picture Cole is asking about here. If you live in a town/city with rampant corruption it should be called out. That may be dangerous but the only disinfectant in politics is sunlight. Cause not talking about it, not noticing it, allows it to fester till what ever is being hidden takes over.

    None of your sentences has any discernible relationship to any of the others. My not-so-obscure argument was not that Chicago corruption shouldn’t be called out. My point, directly the opposite of what you’re apparently going on about here in an awkward stream of consciousness, is that when people point out unflattering but established facts about our home cities/states, getting defensive, taking it personally and/or immediately trying to redirect into false equivalences is pretty self-absorbed and whiny behavior. Your love of strawmen ain’t all that credibility-building, either.

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