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Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Second rate reporter says what?

Republicans in disarray!

with the Kraken taking a plea, the Cheese stands alone.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

The willow is too close to the house.

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

Bad news for Ron DeSantis is great news for America.

Technically true, but collectively nonsense

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.

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So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

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Let’s finish the job.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

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Reader Interactions

133Comments

  2. 2.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    Can’t watch here. Can someone give me a summary of what is happening?

    Never mind. Found out at TPM.

  3. 3.

    Spaghetti Lee

    Awww, poor Paul. David Brooks should take him out for smoothies or something, and maybe kiss his boo boo.

    But yeah, he does appear to be invincible electorally. Never got less than 60% of the vote in 7 elections. Maybe it will change this year since his name is all over this crap and he’s still so proud of it.

  4. 4.

    Mike Goetz

    I love how Ryan is striking the classic cross arm/chin stroke “I look like I’m listening to you but saying Fuck Off in my head” pose. I use that at work a lot.

  6. 6.

    BGinCHI

    You know what he did wrong, don’t you?

    He told them what was in his plan. If he had just kept saying “Ryan Plan” while looking serious and brave, they would have kept their focus on his workout routine and heroic stance on the deficit.

    But voters are just not as perceptive as the Beltway Media.

  7. 7.

    Comrade Mary

    It’s a (town hall?) scene where some literate, aware people are patiently explaining to Paul Ryan that historically, the economy has done better when the middle class has a bigger share of total wealth, and things tank when the wealth is concentrated at the top, as it is now.

    Eddie Munster’s reply is that gosh, that seems to make sense, but it matters how we get there. He says that the rich do get taxed: the audience laughs in his face, with one woman practically hopping out of her chair in an effort to correct him. He says that 2/3 of all jobs are generated by small businesses, and thus, 44% tax on the highest bracket is BAD. What an anus-beret (h/t asiangrrrl).

  9. 9.

    Mike Lamb

    How did the guy asking the question get past the screeners?

    Also, too, how can we get the questioner a job reporting for a major newspaper?

  10. 10.

    steviez314

    So, the powerless lose their Medicare, and the powerful get booed.

    See, it’s shared sacrifice ™ after all.

  11. 11.

    MattR

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Found out at TPM.

    Not really on topic and with no offense intended toawrds any of you here, but Ugg the Repug is my favorite blog commenter. His comments over at TPM consistenly crack me up (and are really the only reason I go into the comments at all)

  12. 12.

    singfoom

    More evidence that the real citizens in this country are the corporations. The rest of us are an afterthought.

    The policies to fix this problem are simple in and of themselves, but the actual act of passing them is beyond both political parties abilities.

    It is also a feature, not a bug.

    Christ, I swear I get more gloomy each day.

  14. 14.

    david mizner

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Basically an informed and prepared questioner talks about the enormous wealth going to 1% and asks why not tax them? Ryan says, “We do tax them,” at which point virtually every one in the crowd laughs-scoffs-boos, so then Ryan switches tactics, tries to conflate the super-rich with “small businesses,” which, he says, produce 90% of the wealth, and several people in the crowd say, yeah, “small,” not buying it, but Ryan kinds of slithers out of it with that obfuscation, and the tape ends…

  16. 16.

    cleek

    @Comrade Mary:

    He says that 2/3 of all jobs are generated by small businesses, and thus, 44% tax on the highest bracket is BAD.

    argh. i fucking hate this talking point.

    the top marginal rate of the owner of the business would matter a lot more if money spent on payroll wasn’t a deductible expense.

  17. 17.

    reflectionephemeral

    Holy cow, that was fantastic, thanks for this.

    It is astonishing how intentionally ignorant people like Ryan– and therefore the whole GOP, given that they’ve signed onto his lunatic theories– really are.

    Ryan said, “I don’t disagree with your premise, the question is, how do we handle it?” I mean, the guy is old enough to remember the 1990s. We could revert to the surplus-causing tax levels we had when the economy was non-broken in the 1990s. But, because conservatism is dead in this country, he instead wants to create a New Randian Man. If we can only cut revenues even more from the wealthiest few percentage points of Americans, then we will not taste death before we see the 12th Imam we will see Ayn’s prophecies fulfilled.

    Forget about all of human history and American prosperity! This is an ideology here!

  18. 18.

    rdalin

    Notice how polite they are all even when they’re booing. If that was a democrat they would be shouting with nothing but contempt and hatred.

  19. 19.

    Loneoak

    @david mizner:

    No citation here, but if I recall correctly, a ‘small business’ is defined as ‘up to $7M in revenues.’ ‘Small business’ doesn’t really mean barbershops and corner stores anymore.

  20. 20.

    MattR

    @cleek: I know nothing about tax law, but I always assumed all business expenses were deductible and the small business owner was only paying income tax on his profits.

  22. 22.

    Face

    Wait, what? A calm, reasoned argument at a town hall? Clearly not Today Show or NBC Nightly News material. Not unless the calm guy stabs somebody.

  23. 23.

    Rihilism

    Shorter Ryan: “I totally agree that wealth concentration is horrible for the people/economy/society, but if we just keep doing it we’ll be golden.”

  26. 26.

    eric

    @MattR: if it is an S Corp. you pay ordinary income tax on your salary (W-2), which is itself a business expense. Then, you pay ordinary income tax on the net profit in proportion to your ownership interest, whether or not the profit is distributed to you in cash (K-1).

  27. 27.

    Three-nineteen

    If this town hall was in Waukesha or Racine, it would mean something. It’s in Milton, which is by Janesville. I’m pretty sure that area is reliably blue.

  28. 28.

    Martin

    @Loneoak: $7M = $28K per day revenue. That’s not small, but it’s not big either, depending on your business. I bet my dentist pulls down half of that. They’ve got two DDS and probably 8 hygienists. 10 chairs full 10 hours a day at $100 per visit is $10K, and that’s assuming nobody is getting any real work done, just cleanings and checkups. I bet their payroll is north of $1M per year, excluding the two DDS.

    Not suggesting that $7M is too low, rather that maybe the definition of ‘small business’ is fairly inaccurate – and trying to put numbers into perspective. Oh, and I’m sure the practice would survive just fine with a higher marginal rate. It’s not like they’re going to offshore to Somalia for the better tax rate.

  29. 29.

    lacp

    @cleek: Sorry, dude, only Democrat socialist Kenyan mooselimb kneegrows ram things down people’s throats. And that’s only in airport men’s rooms. To good, honest, white Republicans. Sometimes. Sorta. Well, no it never happened…I was out hiking on the Australopithecene trail, or some such shit.

  30. 30.

    catclub

    @MattR: _Technically_, hookers and blow are not deductible business expenses.

    You are far more knowledgeable about the tax code than Joe the Plumber. You also express more knowledge about the tax code than most people who reported on J the P.

  31. 31.

    cleek

    @eric:
    and if your business needs to hire someone (which the vast majority of ‘small businesses’ don’t), the employee’s pay would be deducted, which would reduce your personal tax liability.

    IANAA, but… i think the way the personal income tax really affects typical small businesses is when owners carry over profits from one year to the next, with the intention of investing that money in the business some time in future. that money would be taxed at the owner’s personal rate the year it was earned. but, that’s the cost of setting up a business that’s tied to your personal tax situation. duh.

  32. 32.

    BGinCHI

    @catclub:

    Technically, hookers and blow are not deductible business expenses.

    And…..I lose another bet with my accountant.

  33. 33.

    Martin

    @catclub:

    Technically, hookers and blow are not deductible business expenses.

    True, but the RNC is already taxed as a non-profit, so that shouldn’t matter at all.

  34. 34.

    catclub

    @Martin: I am pretty sure that the small business definition the government uses is almost everything up to Boeing.

    And if the small business is in Alaska, all bets are off, thanks to Uncle Ted Stevens.

    $7M is abusrdly small to as a limit on small business definition.

  36. 36.

    The Populist

    Problem is, this same Right wing audience will re-elect him solely because they can’t open their minds and take a chance with a dem. Whatever.

  38. 38.

    Kane

    Don’t these people understand that everytime someone boos Paul Ryan, somewhere in the world Sully sheds a tear.

  40. 40.

    The Populist

    I’ve got a real good idea how we fix the tax system…

    Lower taxes on business to 25 like they want in exchange for closing any loophole that allows a company to avoid paying any taxes at all BUT raise taxes on the rich folks who make the bonuses or pass the profits from the corp to their personal income taxes (ahem…The Kochs and their S-Corps). I’ve always felt small business gets screwed because they pay their fair share (much like us middle class folks) while Exxon avoids paying through loopholes or Koch Industries avoids paying because the profits pass through to personal filings that pay maybe 17% once all those loopholes are allowed.

    No more loopholes.

  43. 43.

    singfoom

    Damn these old DFHs. Don’t they know how many Free Market Ponies have been raped and killed by Free Market Jesus when they discard the truthbombs that Ryan is dropping on them?

    It’s a massacre.

  45. 45.

    Bruce S

    Nobody asked him about his birth certificate?

    What a bunch of dummies…they sounded like one of those Paul Krugman columns with their facts and figures. Not serious.

  46. 46.

    jwest

    @cleek:

    “the top marginal rate of the owner of the business would matter a lot more if money spent on payroll wasn’t a deductible expense.”

    We would need massive investment in infrastructure if this idea was put into place.

    It would be important to build enough bridges for most of you to live under.

  47. 47.

    Mike Lamb

    @Darius: Ugh. It’s still not courageous when the 20% advocating cuts in Medicare/Medicaid control all the political influence.

  49. 49.

    freelancer

    @Darius:

    So Ryan’s austerity plan is deeply unpopular, and yet he cannot be politically brave for advancing it? One or the other, please.

    John Bolton is the bravest person on the planet for wanting to bomb Iran under any and all circumstances, just look how unpopular that idea is!

    This is kinda fun…

    Fred Phelps is certainly in his own category of bravery, for look how unpopular his theology is!

  50. 50.

    Frank

    I like how Ryan turns his back on the speaker for nearly half a minute! That really shows his interest in the words he’s not hearing. You’re right, Mike @#4, Ryan does put on that “I’m listening intently” face: two fingers to the mouth for thoughtful consideration, a quick head-bob, followed immediately by, “I see you’re point… but you’re an idiot.”

  51. 51.

    Kane

    @Darius:
    I thought you were being sarcastic. But after following your link, that’s actually where Sully’s thinking is now. Amazing. His logic baffles the mind.

    Thanks for the link.

  53. 53.

    Studly Pantload, Vibrant Trollbot for Obama

    @Mike Lamb:

    Also, too, how can we get the questioner a job reporting for a major newspaper?

    Le win.

  54. 54.

    Joseph Nobles

    @cleek: “if money spent on payroll wasn’t a deductible expense.”

    Thanks, that’s what I thought. A “small business” filing as an individual and claiming $1 million in taxable revenue? That money isn’t creating jobs, it’s going into someone’s pocket. That’s profit. That particular Ryan talking point is driving me nuts.

  55. 55.

    Citizen Alan

    I still say Ryan would be vulnerable in 2012 if (a) the Dems would find a legitimate contender to run against him instead of a complete unknown who looks like Flounder from Animal House and (b) put some damn money in the race. I mistakenly thought he ran unopposed in 2012, and for all the effort the Dems put into the race, he might as well have.

  56. 56.

    Comrade Mary

    @Kane: As Carl Sagan once said: “But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright Brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.”

  57. 57.

    cleek

    @Darius:
    nobody tell Sully that Ryan hasn’t beaten an election challenger by less than 26 points since the late 90s. doesn’t take a lot of bravery when you’re as safe as that.

    oh wait. i already did.

  58. 58.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kane:There is, of course, a fine line between brave and stupid. I believe Ryan crossed it a while ago.

  59. 59.

    gypsy howell

    Silly voters. Like it matters at all what you think. Like it even matters how you vote. Congress will take care of the rich because they ARE the rich. Silly, silly voters with your silly opinions.

  60. 60.

    Dan

    My cousin gave me this “rich people create jobs and poor people don’t” bullshit and I wanted to punch him in the mouth.

    Rich people were responsible for over 8 million jobs lost in the last 3 years. And they are already sitting on a pile of money, so more money won’t entice them to create any more jobs.

  61. 61.

    gypsy howell

    @Joseph Nobles:

    Exactamundo!

    IF we raised income taxes and capital gains taxes back to Reagan era levels, (let alone Eisenhower levels!) maybe the corporate looters would have less incentive to take all that money home with them, and spread a little of it around to the people who actually do all the work, in the form of higher salaries.

    Why can’t people connect the dots between slashing top marginal income tax rates and capital gains rates over the last 30 years with the stagnation of wages for workers? It’s directly related.

    Our low marginal tax rates are KILLING jobs, not creating jobs. THIS is the big lie in our political discourse.

  62. 62.

    SFAW

    He says that 2/3 of all jobs are generated by small businesses, and thus, 44% tax on the highest bracket is BAD.

    I find this “argument” interesting. Recent studies have shown that new companies are the ones that generate (in the sense of create or produce) jobs. So worrying about tax rates on existing small businesses, because it might slow down job creation, is, como se dice, disingenuous. (Or as The Rude Pundit might say, “a fucking lie”.)

    I know, I know, where’s Louis Renault when you need him?

  63. 63.

    jwest

    Dan,

    Two things for you to think about.

    Number 1. Please explain how someone can get rich (other than inheritance) without creating jobs.

    Number 2. Please explain how someone who is rich (including by inheritance) can spend money without creating jobs.

  64. 64.

    Mike

    @Spaghetti Lee: He’s never been really challenged before and his district isn’t very GOP on the presidential level. He already has a real Dem challenger, for the first time since he first got elected, probably.

  66. 66.

    bemused

    I’d love to know the makeup of the people at that town hall meeting. The speaker said he was a lifelong conservative but I’m wondering how many were liberal and how many were republican. I’m just hoping there are more lifelong conservatives who are figuring out Ryan & the GOP are planning to screw them badly for all their loyalty to the party.

  67. 67.

    gypsy howell

    @jwest:

    Sigh.
    A) Wall Street

    B) THEY DON”T SPEND IT ALL. Whereas that same money divided up among several thousand middle class or poor people would be much more likely to be circulated back into the economy by way of spending on consumer goods.

  68. 68.

    marv

    You can’t be an adult, an Ayn Rand freak, and use the word “premise” in public. You just can’t. I can’t think of anything funny enough to fully explain why.

  69. 69.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @jwest: 1. Lottery. Option trading. Fraud.

    2. Creating jobs means causing a job to appear where there wasn’t one before. Spending money may keep some people in jobs, but does not necessarily create new ones. Further, let’s say I have a billion dollars and I spend one million a year; if my spending creates, let’s say, wouldn’t more jobs be created if 10 people had S100,000,000 and spent a a million a year? Like 10 times as many? Imagine that writ large across an economy.

  70. 70.

    Elia Isquire

    @OzoneR: the DCCC has the strange habit of never backing/finding a decent candidate. He’s basically gone unopposed in every election of his career besides his first to the House.

  71. 71.

    gypsy howell

    @pragmatism:

    And you can bet your ass that Ryan isn’t worried about medicare vouchers – not when he’s got sweet sweet congressional lifetime benefits!

  73. 73.

    MattR

    @jwest: Just because oftentimes somebody creates jobs on the way to becoming rich does not mean that only rich people can create jobs.

  74. 74.

    SFAW

    jwest @ 63 –

    Although it’s hard to believe you’re being serious, the following responses assume thusly:
    1) Brokers, traders, RE agents, for example, don’t create a ton of jobs if/when they get rich. Especially those brokers etc. who just move money around. Whiny Rick Santelli probably makes a relative shitload, but getting on TV to complain about anyone not like him (vis-a-vis paper-pushing money traders) doesn’t really create jobs – except VERY indirectly.

    2) You can spend a ton of money on things for which there is minimal demand, for example. If the demand is not there, then an increase in demand of +1 will be satisfied by existing inventory. If you get 100,000 rich people to buy something, then it is possible that the factory’s ability to meet demand will be exceeded, in which case they might hire another grunt or 5. Of course, if you get 100,000 middle-class wage slaves to buy something, there would be the same effect.

    OK, I thought about it. If your point was that “We need the rich to create jobs”, then I obviously put a shitload more thought into it than you did, because your premise(s) is/are wrong, except in La-La-Land. (And I don’t mean Los Angeles.)

  75. 75.

    Dan

    @jwest: Well, jwest, off the top of my head, a lawyer, doctor or dentist doesn’t really create that many jobs, and they can get rich. As a matter of fact, a lawyer or doctor that joins a big practice or hospital wouldn’t create any jobs because the support staff is already in place.

    Stockbrokers. Plenty of people get rich without creating jobs. And for those that do, when it suits them, they will destroy jobs.

    And Number 2, what? Buying a big screen TV doesn’t create any more jobs than buying a big mac.

    And like I said, business are already sitting on a pile of money, so more money won’t entice them to create any more jobs. Tax cuts are not frikkin’ stimulative.

  76. 76.

    Hermione Granger-Weasley

    This is very encouraging.
    People are actually starting to realize the fake-freemarket does not actually create jobs. He used all the buzz words and they still didnt fall for it.
    shukran DougJ.

  78. 78.

    gex

    It’s interesting. 41 actually tried to tell Americans this was voodoo economics. They didn’t want to hear it. They wanted to hear the happy Reagan message of we can be the awesomest, richest, freest, bestest everything if we just adhere to supply side economics and the Laffer curve.

    For the most part, they’ve been doubling down on that. But we’re clearly in the Republican overreach point because some white older middle class people are starting to notice it isn’t all caused by young bucks and gays. And thus, the trickle up economic sales pitch isn’t flying as well as it used to.

    On the other hand, these are the same people who will, once the dust settles and things are not so volatile, fall right back into culture war politics. So I’m not really going to credit them with too much enlightenment. It’s just starting to impact them now.

  79. 79.

    The Dangerman

    Not sure any one has mentioned it upthread (I’ll read posts later, I swear), but I saw Ben Stein on MSNBC this morning advocating for higher taxes on the wealthy. Then, I saw him on FOX advocating for highern taxes on the wealthy. Guess which Network had an anchor that damned near had a stroke on camera?

  80. 80.

    cynickal

    @Dan:

    My cousin gave me this “rich people create jobs and poor people don’t” bullshit and I wanted to punch him in the mouth.

    Ask him how many rich people are his customers. Business owners don’t create demand, customers do. Economics 101

  81. 81.

    SFAW

    gypsy, Omnes –

    OK, so if I weren’t so wordy, I coulda posted mine earlier. I’d say something about “great minds” etc., but I doesn’t qualify.

    (At least in part because I’m not rich, since being rich is a necessary component to becoming smart.)

  82. 82.

    Dan

    @SFAW: Oh, no. jwest is being serious. When my cousin sent me the email about the rich creating jobs he said that it was “something to think about.” Serious.

  83. 83.

    cynickal

    @jwest:
    You’ve evidently never seen Brewster’s Millions.
    I will treat you as an economics idiot from here on out.

  84. 84.

    MattR

    @Dan: He’s being serious. But he didn’t spend more than 2 seconds thinking about it.

    @The Dangerman: There’s really nothing to see there. According to the m_c theory, Stein is just promoting that view now so that people will take him seriously and he will be in position to re-rape the economy after it recovers. When it comes to Stein, she may very well be right but I still am happy to hear him telling the masses that raising taxes on the wealthy is necessary and not a catastrophe.

  85. 85.

    SFAW

    Dan @ 77 –

    Yes, he/she will give it as much thought as he/she did before his/her post @ 63.

    Which will be an amount equal to the number of NBA Championships the Knicks have one in the last 10 years.

  86. 86.

    gex

    @Dan: This one kills me. The Bush tax cuts were a hallmark of his Administration. Returning the surplus. And there’s been epic job loss during the crash and anemic at best creation during the “recovery”. Unemployment figures keep going up when we’ve been shoveling money to the rich hand over fist. Can he not understand how these things are related to the theory that the rich create jobs?

    Although I guess the argument that they do create jobs is technically correct. But they create as few as possible and do so unwillingly. Giving them money is not an efficient way to create jobs.

  87. 87.

    gex

    @gypsy howell: The global savings glut inspired Greenspan to give his thumbs up to financial innovation in investments. Mortgage backed securities are where the rich put there money. They want safe return, government backed. The jobs are incidental. And if they create a huge bubble, so what? They got paid off at 100% because of the AIG deal.

    This is the reason to tax them. They want to profit off of their investments, they don’t care WHAT those investments are in or what the results will be for the economy. Self interest just isn’t the organizing principle some think it is.

    @Dan: Hey I just got a “something to think about” political email forwarded to me too. I chewed out the sender on a few points and expressed my sorrow over the fact that these emails are how she becomes “informed” on issues. Strangely, haven’t heard back yet…

  89. 89.

    eric

    @jwest: you have to make the right comparisons: if you give someone $100 who has $0, the odds are substantial that all or nearly all will be put into the stream of commerce. Now give that same $100 to someone who has $100,000, and the odds decrease. So, If I have $100M and I spread it over low income people, a greater percentage will find its way into the economy than if i gave to billionaires.

  90. 90.

    Citizen_X

    @jwest: To add to the piling on, I’d point out that rich people creating jobs in China don’t really help our economic situation all that much.

  91. 91.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @marv: You can’t be an adult and an Ayn Rand freak. You’re list has too many items.

  92. 92.

    jwest

    My suspicions have been confirmed.

    If liberals understood how the economy works, they wouldn’t be liberals. It’s impossible to get rich without creating jobs and it’s impossible for the rich to spend their money without creating jobs. On top of that, the rich create jobs even if they don’t spend any money (unless they keep their wealth stuffed in their mattress).

  93. 93.

    les

    @jwest:

    Number 1. Please explain how someone can get rich (other than inheritance) without creating jobs.

    Ignoring your gaping exception, how many jobs does your average hedge fund manager create? For that matter, the entirety of the finance sector? Warren Buffet? The Amway fortune holders? It would be far easier to to name the number of rich who created a significant number of jobs, than the opposite.

    Number 2. Please explain how someone who is rich (including by inheritance) can spend money without creating jobs.

    We may well have all the hairdressers and accountants and hedge fund managers that we need; and the very rich spend a smaller portion of their income on items produced by jobs, than the middle class; and a far higher portion consolidating and protecting their wealth. Do you really believe that buying stock and accumulating dividends and capital gains, taxed at half the rate of earned income, are job producing activities?

    And finally, do you actually believe that the rich would cease their marvelous job creating wonder show, if they had to pay a higher marginal rate? FFS

  94. 94.

    SFAW

    So, If I have $100M and I spread it over low income people, a greater percentage will find its way into the economy than if i gave to billionaires.

    Heretic! Satan-worshipper! Get thee behind me!!

    When them pore billionaires end up going on welfare, they’ll have YOU to blame.

  95. 95.

    Bob Loblaw

    @jwest:

    Please explain how someone can get rich (other than inheritance) without creating jobs.

    Financial “innovation.” Private equity corporate raiding. Theft, too, I suppose. Am I linking the three? You tell me.

    Next question.

  96. 96.

    Citizen_X

    @jwest:

    If liberals understood how the economy works

    Y’know, repeating your talking points endlessly doesn’t really count as an “argument.”

  98. 98.

    Dan

    The “rich people create jobs and poor people don’t” bullshit was bad enough, but I think it was the “here’s something to think about” that made me want to punch him in the mouth.

    Like he is imparting some great wisdom to the ignorant liberal.

  99. 99.

    freelancer

    @jwest:

    My suspicions have been confirmed.
    __
    If liberals understood how the economy works, they wouldn’t be liberals. It’s impossible to get rich without creating jobs and it’s impossible for the rich to spend their money without creating jobs. On top of that, the rich create jobs even if they don’t spend any money (unless they keep their wealth stuffed in their mattress).

    The economy you’re “understanding” doesn’t exist. It’s cyclical until it’s not, and then it looks more like a pyramid.

  100. 100.

    MattR

    @Citizen_X: I am trying to figure out how to get jwest and m_c into a one on one conversation. Not only would it be epic, but hopefully we can trap them in some sort of infinite loop of inanity and let the rest of the blog run free in peace.

  101. 101.

    les

    @jwest:

    On top of that, the rich create jobs even if they don’t spend any money

    The magic pony has arrived. At last. I missed the job category of “unpaid admirer of the wealthy.”

  102. 102.

    SFAW

    If liberals understood how the economy works, they wouldn’t be liberals.

    Actually, we do, and we still are. Unfortunately, your understanding of “how the economy works” is so infinitesimal as to be approaching zero, as your posts demonstrate. Loser.

    It’s impossible to get rich without creating jobs and it’s impossible for the rich to spend their money without creating jobs.

    We gave you a number of examples disproving your “thesis”. You haven’t been able to disprove any of the points we stoopid liberals made. So, once again, you’re not just wrong, but fucking wrong. As are most of you conservatives, especially when it comes to the economy.

    On top of that, the rich create jobs even if they don’t spend any money (unless they keep their wealth stuffed in their mattress).

    Actually, I hear it’s because they shit gold, and they hire darkies to clean off the gold, so that creates jobs. Well, that’s as plausible as anything you’ve written, genius. And I bet I could find more evidence of that, than of anything you’ve claimed. Loser.

  103. 103.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    @jwest: It seems that you don’t understand anything about money. You don’t get rich spending money, only saving it. Therefore, by definition, you can’t get rich and create jobs. It’s only when you spend that someone gets paid, ie has a job.

  107. 107.

    fasteddie9318

    The only time these fuckers are being honest is when they openly argue from Burkean First Principles and admit that they’d rather the poor and working classes just fucked off and died. The fucking gall of these asshole to talk about the need to help small business, when his fucking budget repeals the best thing that Washington has done for small businesses in decades, and then to argue that it hurts small businesses to raise the federal rate on an income bracket that 95% of small businesses don’t reach, is impressive.

  108. 108.

    singfoom

    @jwest: Hey, do you have a newsletter? Or a correspondence school, perhaps? I would like to learn how to debate people without actually paying attention to the points that people raise against your points.

    Maybe you can teach me “how the economy works” as well.

  109. 109.

    The Populist

    @pragmatism:

    This here pisses me off. On one hand, I am happy it allowed his family to survive and allow him to attend a good college, on the other he’s a fucking hypocrite for wanting to dismantle something he KNOWS DAMN WELL helps people get a leg up in this society.

  110. 110.

    fasteddie9318

    @SFAW:

    When them pore billionaires end up going have to stay on welfare, they’ll have YOU to blame.

    FTFY. They’ve been on welfare for most of the past half-century at least, but the difference is that their welfare pays out a whole lot better and doesn’t get called “welfare.”

  111. 111.

    The Populist

    JWest: Riddle me this…how do we have a free market in this country. (hint: We don’t when mega corps are allowed to get perks smaller businesses can’t even touch).

    Think and prove to me you can actually reason.

  113. 113.

    The Populist

    @jwest:

    Actually I own a small business, consult for many who I make lots of money for and I own investments. What the heck do you do outside of get paid by the right to be a muckraker on a message board?

    Idiot. Guess what tardo? You have shown me nothing in terms of grasping that we do not HAVE a free market in this country. The mega rich got their tax cuts yet didn’t create shit for jobs…i take it back they created jobs for Chinese workers.

    Kindly use your brain or go away, troll.

  114. 114.

    The Populist

    Why is it that middle class types like JWest want to sell out his own self interests for some rich guy who could give two shits if he exists or not?

  115. 115.

    Hermione Granger-Weasley

    @The Populist: we dont have a freemarket in this country.
    fhtagn explains.

    You can’t be a liberal and believe in rigged markets and cartels, which is the reality of the so-called free market in the modern USA.

    we have a fake-freemarket.

  116. 116.

    Hermione Granger-Weasley

    @The Populist:

    Why is it that middle class types like JWest want to sell out his own self interests for some rich guy who could give two shits if he exists or not?

    ummm…atrophied cognitive ability?

  117. 117.

    Studly Pantload, Vibrant Trollbot for Obama

    @singfoom:

    I would like to learn how to debate people without actually paying attention to the points that people raise against your points.

    I do believe Glen Beck’s online U offers a course on this. Actually, 101 offers how debate without acknowledging or using pesky facts and just spouting the same talking points over and over like a lobotomized Maoist tween; 201 adds to this instructions on how to include details from Christo-paranoid fever dreams. Jwest must be a dropout of the latter course, and more’s the pity, as this approach would make his/hers/its posts actually entertaining.

  120. 120.

    Hermione Granger-Weasley

    @MattR:oh, hai Matt…. you didnt answer my question.
    Are you ducking?
    Why support marketbased policies if you dont think that freemarket capitalism necessarily improves the human condition?

  121. 121.

    singfoom

    @Studly Pantload, Vibrant Trollbot for Obama: I see what you did there. But again, you paid attention to the words I wrote.

    That seems a little too intellectual for me. Have you seen jwest? It’s like he doesn’t even care what other people wrote or EVEN read the words. Now that’s style.

    I appreciate your suggestion though.

  122. 122.

    Dennis SGMM

    If jwest was to be run down by a rich person he would show off the tire tracks on his face to his friends.

  125. 125.

    Rihilism

    @jwest:

    It’s impossible to get rich without creating jobs and it’s impossible for the rich to spend their money without creating jobs.

    Response, Year 2000 – present. I anxiously await your reply.

  127. 127.

    S. cerevisiae

    Another good example for JWest would be commodities traders – they are nothing but Vegas sports gamblers. With a little seed money and some luck you can become richer than Soros and never create a single job (OK, maybe one for a personal accountant).

  128. 128.

    dlnelson

    Seriously, I was watching a republican hearing on c span about small business and taxes (quite a while ago – I am not good at tagging), and their witness was some small business guy, I googled him and he owned 15 pancake houses in one state, I think in Illinois or Indiana. It is a national chain, so maybe he owns more. IHOP employs folks that do not even earn a living wage. The kitchen is mainly immigrants, etc. This guy has to be making a ton of money, part time workers, no health insurance, folks down on their luck. The current group of gop is truly frightening. The small business is a talking point, nothing more. This is not your mom and pop store. This is theft of an american workforce. It depresses wages, etc. Rush had a right winger from Vegas on today (or a tape of him on fox) S Wynn. The crux of the argument was obamacare was killing his poor employees and the employees cannot hang on much longer. The last time I was in Vegas (6 years ago, I asked the cabbie what was happening in that town, etc., and he said they were having a big fight with Wynn casinos, because they were union busters, and DO NOT GO THERE, the entire hotel hires non union. Now that was awhile ago, but there you have it. If you want to know what is going on in a city, ask the working locals.

  130. 130.

    TooManyJens

    My favorite part of that video is when Ryan responds to the facts about wealth inequality with “Well, what do you think we should do? Redistribute?” and the audience basically all says, “Well, YES!”

  131. 131.

    Gus

    This fuckstick spent way too much time reading Ayn Rand. Small business people don’t avoid hiring people because they’re not making enough money. They hire people when their businesses need new people. It’s pretty obvious he didn’t run the family business. I’m really fucking sick of hearing that justification for keeping taxes on the wealthy low.

  132. 132.

    pattonbt

    @jwest: So then the rich in the US hate the US? Because the tax breaks haven’t created the jobs we were told they would. Wealth concentration, accumulation and hoarding has far outstripped spending by the wealthy since the tax cuts were passed. So shouldn’t we question their patriotism because they aren’t doing their duty to create jobs as they promised? I mean they and their masters explicitly said that only they can save us and give us jobs, so where’s the payoff for us? Why do they hate America so much? They said they didn’t want the extra money for their Scrooge McDuck like vaults to sit there unproductively, they wanted it to save America and give us all jobs! Oh, and cut the deficit too!

    I want my job from the tax cuts I have given them. They (and the Republicans and their masters) told me jobs would rain down like a spring thunderstorm the more we lowered taxes and that would have the even better side effect of swelling government coffers (thus killing the deficit). I mean win fucking win baby!! So where’s my job and why isn’t the deficit gone? I mean these wealthy hoarders aren’t doing their patriotic duty and giving us takers our jobs! We’ve given them everything they’ve asked for so where are the jobs!

    Oh, I guess we just need to give more tax cuts and then we will REALLY get things going on those two fronts right?

  133. 133.

    SFAW

    pattonbt –

    First of all, WTF is your problem? If you really were a productive worker, you’d either (A) be working already, or (B) have so many offers from those noble capitalists (a/k/a rich people) that you’d have to turn them away in droves. So it sounds like you’re a moocher, and merely want to suckle at the teat of Big Government, like the rest of your kind.

    Second: if the US were truly serious about tax cuts for jwest’s job producers (a/k/a rich people), the Government would not just cut taxes down to zero/zip/zilch/0%, it would give even more money to the job producers (a/k/a rich people), such that their tax rate is effectively minus 10%. That’s right, give them back all their taxes, PLUS another 10% of their income on top of that. Were that to be done, I have no doubt that the number of new jobs that the Rich People would create would FAR outstrip the number created during the 1930-1931 period.

    Also, too.

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