I felt sick to my stomach when the White House released Obama’s birth certificate. I was afraid this was the moment where it all came tumbling down, when the United States showed that it couldn’t handle having a black person as president, that this presidency would soon be politically delegitimatized somehow.
Three days later I realize that I was completely wrong, that Obama clearly believes that birtherism is an albatross for Republicans. Some wingers are even complaining about how deftly Obama is using birtherism against Republicans
This is the first time in my political lifetime that race-baiting has blown up in Republicans’ face. This is not that much of an explosion, but this does make them look bad and another six months of Trump probably does hurt the Republicans’ 2012 chances. Birtherism has reversed the pattern of higher and higher-pitched dog whistles. Lee Atwater said:
You start out in 1954 by saying, “Nigger, nigger, nigger.” By 1968 you can’t say “nigger” — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states’ rights and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now [that] you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites.
There’s nothing abstract about birtherism or about Trump’s questioning of Obama’s intellect and that’s certainly a big part of why this is a bad “issue” for Republicans; it’s not a dog whistle when everyone can hear it. But also too, race-baiting has probably lost its ability to swing independent voters.
In 2008, we were told over and over again that white Americans wouldn’t vote for a black candidate, no matter what the polls said. The Bradley effect! Well, they did. This came after a Republican primary where the most pro-immigrant candidate emerged as the nominee in a contest dominated by immigrant-bashing early on.
The last forty years of American politics were the story of how conservatives used race-baiting to make themselves a viable political force and sometimes genuine majority. The next forty will be the story of how this strategy ultimately will destroy them.
When the Reverend Wright stuff started to go down, when the PUMAs started babbling about whitey tapes, when birtherism started gaining momentum, I was hoping conservatives wouldn’t play the race card. Now, I wish a motherfucker would play the race card.
Fred
Been a busy day. I’ve been fucking with birthers/teabaggers heads on youtube video comments. Here are the basic rules. Find a video of Obama bitch slapping Chump or whoever. Look the haters comments. Reply how Obama is their president and he is black and there is NOTHING they can do about it. Sit back and watch their heads explode.
I’m trying to mix it up a bit. Talking about how he is richer, smarter, luckier, and better looking than them. How he represents all those kids that picked on them and beat them up in high school. How he represents that guy that stole their GF from them. Bonus point for mentioning how god must have forsaken them.
mb
selah
MikeJ
Meant to point out to our master questioner that WaPo is taking questions about the Dinner for tomorrow at 1pmedt.
http://live.washingtonpost.com/white-house-correspon dents-dinner-2011-recap.html
LBJ famously said he’d lost us the south for a generation with the Civil Rights Act. A generation has passed. Time to continue the work.
Cat Lady
Birtherism is racism, no ifs ands or buts, and everyone now knows it. I guess the only upside to this disgraceful episode is there is now nothing left to hide behind for the unreconstructed racist assholes, and they’re free to just say “nigger” again, which should be any minute now. I’m looking at you, Trump.
Comrade DougJ
@MikeJ:
Classes have ended, I’m on it.
Josie
I think you will get your wish. I don’t think they can help themselves. I also think Obama can handle it.
Fred
@efgoldman: It take about 1.5 generations. These people will never change just like the KKK. You just have to wait till they die off and their influence on the next generation fades away. So it’s not going to happen overnight that is for sure.
JAHILL10
Like you DougJ, I was completely sickened by the birther business this last week and the fact that it seemed that the president was “forced” to answer it. But it seems ultimately to be the long game Obama has always played: Let your opponent make an absolute ass of themselves before you respond with the cool, reasoned and realistic humor of someone who is not only self confident, but confident in the sanity of 73% of the rest of the country.
It seems to be a winning formula and I am really happy this president of ours is smart enough to see beyond the 24-hour news cycle.
Karen
Obama basically gave Trump and the Birthers the middle finger by releasing the birth certificate, forcing the sane Republicans (and comparitively, Boehner is sane) to stop dodging the question.
And Trump is now the top Republican candidate according to the polls.
But what I don’t see is how that’s a winner for Obama unless there are actually less racists in both parties than Trump is dog whistling for.
Are you saying that by revealing the ugliness to everyone, Obama wins?
Chuck Butcher
It is pretty hard on the targets.
jrg
Dougj, I came to a similar conclusion this weekend when I was at my sister and brother-in-law’s house. He normally strikes me as being a low-information centrist… The type of guy that will say: “What Washington should do is ___”, where ___ is something the Dems have been trying to do, and the GOP is trying to block.
This weekend, things were different. He called out birtherism as racism. I was surprised. If it’s obvious to “centrists” like him, the GOP has a huge fucking problem on their hands.
Brachiator
The sad thing is that there are wingnuts, many mainstream Republicans, and even some liberals who still cannot confront the blatant racism behind this birth certificate crap, and who are much more comfortable talking about birtherism as a political strategy.
And I’m just waiting to see Republicans come into black and Latino communities and talk about their “big tent” party. Hell, I would bet that even Clarence Thomas is coming close to saying, “I’ve had it with these muthafuckas.”
MikeJ
@Comrade DougJ:
First of May, outdoor fucking starts today.
I got an early start this year, but be sure to enjoy your time with no class. Not that you have any class other times.
I’m going to have my second aperitif now.
Omnes Omnibus
@JAHILL10: It, however, has not been all that pleasant to live through, and I am not even the target.
JAHILL10
@Omnes Omnibus: Amen. I was ready to pack my bags for Canada at one point. And I come from phosphorescent white stock.
OzoneR
realize again.
darkmatter
@efgoldman: briar fox and briar bear always end up looking like fools don’t they?
JonF
Obama’s strongest political move is the “make you look like the crazy” one. The birther nonsense makes moderate GOPers argue with the far right and thats a net positive for Obama(and America).
Comrade DougJ
@Chuck Butcher:
Doesn’t seem to bother Obama and he’s the main target.
Maude
@Karen:
The racisim is there for all to see. What Obama did was ridicule Trump, the birfers and the lazy members of the media.
Obama outwitted them all.
The racists are still there, but they were made to look foolish.
Comrade DougJ
@Karen:
Yes.
JCT
Whoa, just thinking about that scumbag Atwater makes me queasy. Terrible human being.
I still remember the unease that shot through my med school class when the rumors started that he was undergoing treatment at our hospital.
Dr. Loveless
@JAHILL10:
This. I mean, people joke about Obama-fu and 11-dimensional chess and whatnot, but could this move have been more perfectly timed and executed?
I’ve also seen a certain effect among many whites — liberal or moderate whites, not virulently racist, but steeped in privilege and not really getting the birtherism=racism equation before now. In the last few days, especially since the Baratunde Thurston video went viral, I’ve seen many comments to the effect of, “Oh. Yeah. I get it now.”
James E. Powell
I have not shared this confidence since almost the whole damn country went for Reagan. The nearly universal acceptance, almost celebration, of the 2000 Selection didn’t help. And the post 9/11 hysteria, most of the effects of which still rule our culture, destroyed whatever remained.
mistermix
I don’t know if timing the release of long form to just enough time before the correspondents’ dinner was planning or luck, but it was one of the sweetest little tricks I’ve seen in a long time. And, yeah, it makes up a bit for the ugliness of him having to release it.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@jrg: That’s quite good news then. I’m hoping it is indeed a huge fucking problem for them.
D. Mason
@darkmatter: I ain’t touchin’ that tar baby.
James E. Powell
@Maude:
At times like this I wonder how different things would be if more than 10% of the voters actually followed politics.
No matter how much or how well Obama and others expose the racists and make them look like buffoons, none of it will have any significant impact on the 2012 election if unemployment and the price of gas remain high. Obama & the Democrats, by agreeing that the deficit and spending cuts are the only things that matter, have put their faith in the magic invisible hand to improve the situation. I am not optimistic at all.
General Stuck
I don’t really think it’s a choice for them anymore. And I don’t fool myself into yet thinking that the power of using race, or even having it front and center with a black president, is any guarantee of more citizens of all pol persuasions will exorcise their personal race based demons to a degree anywhere near it not being a major factor in viewing and judging this president solely on performance and abilities.
I don’t think Obama would have been elected if not for a perfect storm of GOP fail, to the point the party of private enterprise had to come to Uncle Sam, hat in hand to the hated federal government, for a massive bailout of republican fail, and then turning around and winning the next election. Which should be a reminder that racial attitudes run deep and are not on any particular emergency political schedule.
That said, I think the national spotlight on the thorny race questions in this country are a good thing, necessary way past just Obama remaining president. It is a painful and hard school of facing national and personal ghosts of the past, that is open round the clock so long as Obama is president.
If we thought the 2008 election was some kind of important, it will pale in comparison to the one in 2012, where the country will be faced with a supremely competent incumbent president who happens to be black, and weighs that against all the crazy psycho shit that will get amped up 10 fold past this recent Trump Bump circus act. With the GOP, as of now, being run by crazy tea baggers and nary a candidate in sight that doesn’t scare the beejeebers out of everyone not in the 27 percent wingnut loony faction.
It should be nolo contendre, but there will be a lot of weak minded voters, many of them usual dem voters, and about every republican voter, who will just want all of the race talk and it’s attendant ugliness and angst, to just stop. Whether there will be enough of these people to defeat another Obama term, remains to be seen. But the black elephant is still in the room, and will matter at least as much to the outcome as any other issue. Probly more, imo.
JGabriel
DougJ @ Top:
Longer than that. People forget, but Goldwater ran on a state’s rights strategy in 1964, and the National Review was supporting Jim Crow in the late 50’s.
So the story is about 48-55 years old, depending on whether you want to date it back to vocalized Republican support for Jim Crow (mid-late 50’s), or to Thurmond’s switch to the GOP and his convincing Goldwater to pursue the South (’63-64).
.
lacp
Birtherism and racism (but I repeat myself) are toxic, but I don’t think they’re contagious. After all, the people who voted for the President didn’t wake up the day after the election and say, “OMG! He’s actually BLACK!” I kinda suspect most of them knew it going in.
Josie
@Dr. Loveless: It also may have emboldened reticent white liberals (like me) to speak up and say “No more.” I wrote my church choir director an email requesting a politics free zone after a nasty birth certificate comment at the last rehearsal. This is so not like me, but I received a very gracious apology and promise to do better so that I felt empowered. Obama’s calm approach teaches us all.
Splitting Image
The key thing to understand is that most people like to think of themselves as not racist. Or sexist, or homophobic, or hostile to any particular group of people.
You can get people to support a racist policy by disguising it enough that people who don’t pay much attention to these things won’t realize it is racist, but it doesn’t follow that they will continue to support the policy if you make it too obvious what you’re up to.
I’m getting flashbacks to the 2004 Canadian election. Stephen Harper was a week away from winning when he announced that he would repeal the recently-passed bill allowing gay marriage. His support collapsed so fast pollsters couldn’t even measure it. It was exactly the same situation: conservatives had been so successful in framing the opposition to gay rights as populist “family values” that they simply couldn’t believe it could cost them an election. Until it did.
I don’t think Trump will win the G.O.P. nomination, but if he does, I think there is a good chance he’d take Alf Landon out of the record books. Most of the other candidates they have who are doing what Trump has been doing but are trying to be cagier about it would do better, but not a lot better.
darkmatter
@efgoldman: Born in ’77 and I remember seeing bits and pieces of the story when I was little on the disney channel. This was when I was about 8 or 9 years old, although I could be wrong.
burnspbesq
@Maude:
Perhaps, but it seems doubtful that they were made to feel foolish. That’s hard to do to someone with no sense of shame.
dmsilev
@Karen:
I’m not DougJ, but that’s how I’m looking at the issue. Remember, the hard-core birthers are concentrated in the GOP primary base, or roughly 25% of the population. You can’t win a Presidential election with 25%, no matter how worked up they are about anything. What Obama is doing is pointing out very very strongly to the vast 50% mushy middle that the Republicans have gone batshit insane.
dms
JGabriel
@Comrade DougJ:
As a wealthy man, and President of the United States, he’s also the most powerful target — tends to give him a little more resiliency, which is another attribute he seems to have had in abundance from the start.
.
wobblybits
@Comrade DougJ: True but then again he isn’t the only target now is he? There is a reason so many people of color were angry and hurt by this whole episode. You are forgetting about them.
Fred
@Karen: He certainly does not come out on the losing end of it. But the birthers think they are doing damage. That’s the beauty of it all. So yea, Obama does come out on top by essentially taking the high road.
scav
@efgoldman: well, I picked it up in a book form later than that (along with the Jack Tales) in a granola-laden household so there would seem to be all sorts of flavors of non-whipper-snappers.
Loneoak
What if the long form release has nothing to do with politics and was all about setting up his comedy routine last night?
IMO, that would be even better.
No one of Importance
FIFY.
The idea that the race card (revolting expression – call it what it is – racism) hasn’t been front and centre since the moment Obama threw his hat into the ring, is just nonsense.
With any criticism of Obama, I assume his colour is part of it, until someone conclusively proves otherwise. This is the opposite of many white commentators – and even supporters of Obama – who refuse to see race baiting until someone jams a white hood in their mouths and chokes them to death on it.
JAHILL10
More than anything else this birther business has made me absolutely sick about the state of our national media. Merge their unnatural love of celebrity with the chance to kick a sitting Democratic president and, against all standards of common decency, they can’t pander enough. Can we survive these opportunist clowns?
Fred
@dmsilev: Much less than 25%. Faux peak viewership (dropping by the day) is 3million and every single one of these nut jobs watches Faux! The majority well into their 50’s and 60’s and dropping like flies.
Lysana
Thing is, I adore the Uncle Remus stories for their echoes to East African tribal lore. But gods, if Song of the South had to be more racist, it would’ve tried. But Obama as Br’er Rabbit has me with happy thoughts accordingly. He isn’t that slick, but he has his moments.
@Dr. Loveless:
I hope more get it. I saw someone claim Obama would’ve been birthered had he been French. I realize the “cheese-eating surrender monkey” meme does dehumanize the French, but it’s not a systemic issue these days in the American psyche to do so.
Linda Featheringill
@efgoldman:
briar patch:
:-)
I understand it. And I appreciate it.
Comrade DougJ
@wobblybits:
People should be angry and upset about this, everyone should. But this shit goes on all the time anyway and this just shines a light.
Brachiator
@Comrade DougJ:
This is not really true. As other some other posters have noted, and as the eloquent video clip posted by Baratunde Thurston makes clear, many black and Latino people see all this as a personal assault on their dignity.
People keep going on about race cards and indirect references to the N word, but there is nothing covert about Trump’s accusation that neither Obama nor presumably any other black person in America, is qualified to get into college or law school, and that he has stolen what by right belongs to white men.
Not too long ago I watched a video stream from the South by Southwest tech conference, and saw Thurston hanging out with fellow tech geeks, relaxing, having a good time, answering questions from people in the audience.
And then I see him reduced to tears over Trump’s assertion that in 2011 a white man can still ask a black man for his papers.
Yeah, Obama’s got this. But I wonder how many black children are asking their parents, “why do these people hate us? Why do they believe that we can’t do anything as well as they can?”
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@Cat Lady:
i don’t know if it all goes back to that word, but the movement would be from, denying it, or trying to flip the allegation of racial stereotyping, to admitting that one is engaging in stereotypes.
saying, yes i support small government, even though government helps me, because government seems to help black people or other groups too.
or saying i support a social conservative agenda, because i believe that marginalizes the groups of people i have prejudices against.
essentially you are weathering away the veneer that coats many conservative issues, the ones that cause people to vote against their actual interests, out of fear, and revenge against those “others”.
D. Mason
This sentiment, in addition to being utter bullshit, is a good reason to discount the racism of birtherism. Obama is a human being like all of us with strengths and faults, if he is capable of fucking up then he can be criticized without racist intent.
If I criticize Obama for being a Kenyan Muslim and you call me a racist I might consider what’s wrong with me but if I criticize Obama for his quiet acceptance of torture policies and you call me racist I will definitely wonder what’s wrong with you.
Comrade DougJ
@Brachiator:
It is a personal assault on their dignity, but it’s not going to stop until Republicans try it enough and pay the price enough.
JPL
The birthers were embarrassed. They are not smart enough to regroup.
Martin
@Brachiator:
Honestly, I think we’re better off that they’re asking. That invisible discrimination is the worst – you never know if it’s really there or not. You suspect, but there’s nothing to push against. And if you do try to push, you’re easily played off as an angry lunatic. Personally, let’s get it out in the open in all it’s ugliness. It might hurt a lot more, but at least you know that they are, indeed, out to get you.
No one of Importance
@D. Mason:
For me to believe it’s not based on race, you would have to demonstrate equal criticism of the people who set the torture policies up. THat’s all.
What I see with a lot of the criticism of Obama, and his family, is that people are not afraid to blast them, but somehow found themselves silent under Bush and Co. You might say it’s about political stances, and you might be right. But I’m going to assume that some of it is a refusal to believe one of *them* is in the White House – unless, of course, you can prove otherwise.
Indeed. But funny how often racist intent is actually there, regardless. Just as sexism is the topping on the shit sandwich when powerful women are criticised.
wobblybits
@Brachiator: This.
Maude
@burnspbesq:
Most likely they are offended. Good.
@James E. Powell:
So much can happen before the election. I don’t look that far ahead.
If someone had told you ten years ago that a black man would be elected president, it would have been hard to believe.
@No one of Importance:
Race comes first and the rest of the hate follows.
It’s in the condenscending tone of voice used by rightie radio talkers when they point out how wrong Obama is about whatever it is at the moment.
Obama is also intelligent and this also fuels the hatred.
JCT
@JPL: Do you really think they have this sort of insight?
gex
I never thought I was one to buy into American Exceptionalism. But I realized that since Obama was elected that I had some of that in me as I became more and more ashamed of how many Americans behave.
I am pleased to see that they might finally only be embarrassing themselves.
wobblybits
@Martin: No way I would want my child to come home in tears asking why the world hates him because of something he has absolutely no control over.
I think it is easy for some to talk about the so called bigger good because it doesn’t effect their everyday life.
ETA: remove last sentence for clarity
Bob Loblaw
@James E. Powell:
This is what you myopic bloggers keep missing.
The race issue isn’t an issue. Not an election breaker. Not with the swing voters that matter. Whatever damage Obama takes from this country’s racial climate, it’s been baked in for a long time now.
Obama has the lowest poll numbers of his time in office right now. Is it because the country just found out he’s black? Nope. Does it have anything whatsoever to do with a birth certificate? Is it because over a million people applied for 60,000 McDonald’s jobs? And the housing market is still submarining? And Hispanic unemployment is 13% nationwide? And gas prices are over $4/gal in the largest metropolitan markets? And Washington is full on dedicated to scaring people about their budgetary demise and our impending sale to the Chinese at every turn? Maybe. Just maybe.
Americans do not care about daily politics. Even really racist ones. They just want things back to the way they were. And because they’re idiots, they routinely fail to elect the party that makes its living fucking them over. But it isn’t a racial thing. It’s just lazy ignorance.
So yeah, maybe Republicans finally poison their image once and for all. If so, great. If not, if Trump goes away (and he will), then Obama’s still gonna be reelected, it just won’t be a walkover. It’ll take some work.
D. Mason
@No one of Importance: You’re talking about proving a negative, like asking Obama to prove he’s not a closet Muslim, impossible. You try to set a reasonable standard, but fall short since what you’re talking about will ultimately remain impossible.
I can appreciate the fact that it’s extremely tiring to live in a climate of bad faith discussions, which are often steeped in racism (though I am not the target of said racism). Obama, like everyone else sucking down oxygen, is imperfect. This simple fact of life means your base assumption is made in bad faith too.
Comrade DougJ
@gex:
The only exceptional thing about the United States on this one, relative to other western countries, is that we actually elected a president who isn’t white in the first place. We need some perspective here.
OzoneR
@wobblybits:
I’m 32 years old and I have never seen my black friends as angry, as disgusted and as hurt, not by Trump, but by society as a whole, included the media, as they have been in the past week.
handy
@Bob Loblaw:
It’s as if those 69 million people who voted for Obama didn’t know they were voting for a black guy. But, as they say, YMMV.
No one of Importance
@D. Mason:
Nope. If someone makes a criticism of someone who is a minority or a woman, all I expect is that the criticism to have exactly the same tone and flavour that would be made of someone who is a Christian American White Male.
What you – who I assume is a CAWM – ignore is that when you’re part of a group under suppression, whether women, people of colour, Muslims in Christian dominated countries, gay people, you often catch the nuances that those in the kyriarchy don’t recognise (or at least admit). Hence all the furious denials by people like yourself (if you are indeed a CAWM) and political pundits – or take your pick of the troll brigade here – that race just *can’t* be part of the birther issue. Or attacks on Obama’s integrity. Or pictures of him as a chimp. Etc. Etc.
Obama is certainly imperfect, and certainly deserves criticism on some issues. But CAWM assume that part of that imperfection is a result of an abundance of melanin in his skin, like they assume that Hillary would be a worse president than [insert CAWM candidate’s name] because she has ovaries, or that a judge in the Prop 8 case must be a bigot against Christians because he’s gay.
For too many CAWM, the feature which leads to the suppression of the group is the feature which makes that suppression moral and lawful above and beyond any human failings. This circular argument has worked well in their favour as they consolidate their power. Therefore I, as a member of a suppressed group, will assume CAWM do not speak with a pure heart until they can prove they are actually different from their peers.
If you’re not a CAWM and you’re coming out with this shit, then, well, I’m talking to someone who ought to be eating pie.
Roger Moore
@Splitting Image:
I think it’s more accurate to say that lots of people hold negative stereotypes about people of other races but don’t have the kind of general racial animus that was common during the Jim Crow era. Playing to the racist stereotypes is generally a winner, but playing to racial animus is a loser. As long as you’re beating up on welfare queens, anchor babies, and proponents of Sharia law, you’re on relatively safe ground. But you can’t propose that anyone who isn’t a WASP should be a second class citizen without some backlash.
I think this is a big part of the reason Obama has been as successful as he has. It goes back to what Joe Biden was trying to say in his infamous gaffe about Obama being clean and articulate. His point, badly made as it was, was that Obama goes against all of whites’ worst stereotypes about blacks. You can’t use racial attacks against him because the subtle ones are obviously untrue and the obvious ones make you look like an unreconstructed racist.
Danny
@D. Mason:
Except for the fact that that is a completely unsubstansiated accusation, at least if you’re referring to the treatment of the spy and traitor Bradley Manning? If that’s the case, it’s also supposed to read “one [very dubious] case of [alleged] torture”, yes?
It doesn’t make you racist, but it’s makes you a tool. Assuming it’s Manning.
Bob Loblaw
@No one of Importance:
Oh, aren’t you fun?
OzoneR
@D. Mason:
That doesn’t make you a racist, it makes you unrealistic.
handy
@OzoneR:
WHUH?
D. Mason
I’m gonna just let that sit there by itself, disgusting as it is.
rikyrah
OF COURSE Birtherism is about racism.
period.
I didn’t want the President to release his birth certificste, but I thought it was a good political move.
he’s released it.
now, the only ones who cling to it, are fucking crazy, and those who won’t condemn those who still cling to it are stuck with them like an albatross around their neck.
Spaghetti Lee
@No one of Importance:
I think the only racist in this thread is you.
gwangung
I will note that for people of color, such a strategy in the past was a rational survival strategy.
D. Mason
@Danny: my comment wasn’t about the veracity of the claim, only about the nature of the criticism, and yes I criticized Bush for accepting policies that were torturous. You can look it up on this very blog, if you’re so inclined, or not. No one cares. I’m clearly a pie eating racist.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
And here I thought Republicans had a short attention span.
sneezy
@Splitting Image:
“I don’t think Trump will win the G.O.P. nomination…”
I’ll go farther than that: I don’t think he’ll ever file with the FEC or enter a single primary.
Brachiator
@Comrade DougJ:
How much is enough?
Republicans are shameless, and clearly have no problem with insulting millions of blacks and Latinos in order to go after Obama.
And Trump got invited to the White House Correspondents dinner and no doubt will continue to be invited to upper crust social circuit events, many of which he himself underwrites. And Republican governors are escalating their assault on civil rights and women’s reproductive rights.
And it seems that every day, a hard core of wingnuts think that someone gave them the high sign to come out with blatantly racist statements. Rachel Maddow sardonically noted that she had to correct an earlier statement she made about racism still being covert when she showed a clip of a Florida legislator going on about how some blacks just “lacked the necessities” to do better for themselves.
The GOP may get it in the end, but right now it looks like a long time coming.
D. Mason
@sneezy: If he doesn’t get into at least one debate I will consider it a failed publicity stunt regardless of the publicity it’s already gained. Trump in a GOP primary debate would be the mother of all schadenfreude pay offs and I will accept nothing less.
Roger Moore
@Brachiator:
Enough is when it starts losing them elections instead of winning them. That’s the only calculus that will get the Republicans’ attention.
gex
@Comrade DougJ: No doubt. I just thought better of the American people with their behavior. I didn’t expect the level of “OMG black guy!!!!” freakout that we’ve seen.
But you are right. And I do note the average age of the Fox News Demo, so we have that going for us.
D. Mason
@gwangung: Starting a family at puberty was a rational survival strategy once upon a time too, but this is 2011.
Danny
@D. Mason:
Wait do you personally stand by that accusation or don’t you? It sounds like both. But also you don’t care.
I am only informing you that there was a somewhat lengthy discussion of Manning in the comments on this blog a couple of weeks ago and to my best judgement there’s no there there, only Greenwald blowing smoke out his ass.
(And also Manning was spying for wikileaks which is teh progressive thing to do so obviously Obama is a torture enabler despite having in fact ended the official policy of state sponsored torture we had up until just now)
A tool, depending on if you were hypothetically to criticize him, or if you are actually criticizing him.
gex
@Comrade DougJ: Fair point. It was bound to bring out the most intolerant. Of course they have to make asses of themselves because they can not tolerate seeing Obama in the WH.
I was actually surprised that there was an emotional element to it for me that indicated that I expected better from us.
D. Mason
@Danny: I don’t care, because on the whole Obama has done well for America and while I should be able to assume such accusations are untrue, I can’t. I have no way to know what’s happening with Manning, or Gitmo, and while I abhor torture and torture apologists, it’s just too far outside of my reach to actually get worked up about it. I thought I was clear that my point was NOT about the veracity of the claim, only about the nature of criticism itself. If such a criticism is legitimate or not, it contains no demonstrable racism.
Danny
@D. Mason:
I prefer to at least try assume that my president is not a torture enabler – in the absence of convincing proof that he is.
But fair enough, you’ve been clear enough on what you meant to say, I’ll end the hijack.
No one of Importance
@D. Mason:
Yes, how disgusting to assume that members of a group who systematically suppress others, will continue to suppress others unless they prove they are different from their fellows by their words and deeds.
You have of course, reacted *exactly* as other CAWM do to even the slightest hint that you might be imperfect or that like all white people (including me), your race privilege colours your thoughts and words and deeds, often unconsciously. Or that people of colour won’t see what you refuse to.
So, sir, you are in fact moving with the herd, not outside it. If that statement is disgusting to you, well too bloody bad. I find egregious displays of overweening privilege disgusting too. But those displays of yours can lie there alongside my criticism.
No one of Importance
@Spaghetti Lee:
You can think whatever you want. Just don’t give your brain cell too hard a time, and try and walk while you do it.
D. Mason
By stating that noone is perfect? Guilty as charged.
Your posts are a tangle of negative assumptions based on sex, religion and skin color. A veritable smorgasbord of prejudicial stereotyping. If that’s what it means to be outside the herd then… moooooooooo.
I would love to know how, exactly, you perceive me to have displayed overweening privilege.
Chuck Butcher
@No one of Importance:
Just to see if I have this straight, if I think the President is heading in a wrong direction, I’m a racist unless I can prove to you something else? It wouldn’t matter if I’d been on the same track right along, it would be racist/etc if I don’t share the gender/race/etc?
I think you’re working waaaay too hard at this. If the assesment is accurate and the criticism is based on something the Pres has something to do with/can do something about then it is criticism.
I would suppose that it is accurate to state that as a white male I cannot have the experience of daily racism, it assumes utter self-absorbtion to assert that I couldn’t figure it out in my actions and attitudes.