This image is flying around the tubes of the information superhighways:
I suspect it will become a classic, just like this one:
And with that, it seems like a good time for another Open Thread to discuss the issue of the day.
And in other news, Fred Haitt’s latest is especially stupid today. His main point is to condemn President Obama for “failing to seize opportunities that unexpectedly present themselves” in matters of foreign policy and war. Also, too, Fred has deep praise for the way G. W. Bush did things.
His revisionist history and weak-tea strawmen–while classic Haitt–just burn with deep idiocy.
As a palate cleanser to Fred, these words from Steve Benen seem just about right:
There’s a difference between talking tough and being tough, just as there’s a difference between chest-thumping rhetoric and getting the job done.
Obama definitely nailed this one.
maybe now he can try to bring us back to the nation of laws we once were. We lost of ourselves in the past 10 years.
A nice benefit of the tubes is that we shall forever have available to us the videos, interviews and news stories of the absolute horseshit that the President’s political opponents and their weasely supplicants in the Village were throwing his way leading up to this accomplished mission.
Odie Hugh Manatee
I was hoping that Osama would be buried face-down but I like the burial at sea even better. There will be no burial with him facing Mecca, no place for his admirers to visit. This is no ‘sleeping with the fishes’ move either, they actually found a good use for his remains; fish food.
I bet he’s getting real ‘chummy’ with them right now.
What would be really cool is that if Obama were to announce, right before the 2012 elections, that they actually captured Osama alive and have been squeezing him for intel.
SHOW US THE DEATH CERTIFICATE OBAMA
This is the best quote re OBL death I’ve seen: “But I just can’t find it in me to be glad one more person is dead, even if it is Osama Bin Laden.” ~ Westchester resident Harry Waizer, who escaped north tower after plane hit on 9-11.
Also, too: I’m sick of hearing how “justice” was done. The NY Post (of all frigging places) put it more honestly: ‘VENGEANCE AT LAST’
sorry to pee pee on the parade of U-S-A! chanters …
I’m waiting to see what Obama’s approval rating becomes. I’m guessing 73%, with the 27% crazies beginning a new conspiracy theory that bin Laden is still alive and living high on the hog with Bill Ayers while the two collaborate on Obama’s new book.
I wonder what Rush Limbaugh is thinking right now? There isn’t enough oxycontin in the world to make him forget that Obama was the one that finally nailed bin Laden.
It’s so amusing, for all those years we had this chest-thumping schmuck who apparently couldn’t chew gum and walk at the same time (not to mention decided to ignore his own AUgust briefing) and here we have the accounts of Obama handling these meetings and taking action while all hell was breaking loose, both in March and last week.
Yes, sirree, wouldn’t want one of those smarty-pants pointy-heads running the country, would you?
Cry me a fuckin’ river. If you’ve ever stepped on a cockroach, you’ve ended a more valuable life than Osama bin Laden.
@Captain Howdy: You aren’t sorry for shit or you wouldn’t have written the post. whiny fuck
@JCT: It’s the difference between a brilliant attorney and a C+ MBA.
Timely column, Fred!
Not apparently. Remember when Bush choked on that pretzel watching TV?
This is what leadership looks like. And please note, Republicans — there was no need for this president to dress up like a soldier and prance around like he’d personally done something.
You know who else was declared dead on May 2?
I got a better quote for you. “When that bag of crap died, I hope it was up close and personal, I hope he knew what was coming, I hope he pissed his pants, I hope he begged for mercy, and I hope it hurt. I hope it hurt like hell.” ~Me.
@Captain Howdy: Of course, it would be far better if he was left alone to continue his quiet life planning the deaths of countless other innocents.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
Reposted from the previous topic:
Much as it’s a fucking good thing that he’s dead, I’m not terribly sure I’m in the mood to celebrate.
Sure, OBL was the personification of the terrorist threat we’ve been seized by since 9/11, but considering all we know now, and all that’s happened, I’m just not sure his death makes much of a difference any more, logistically, symbolically, or realistically. It’s about damn time, sure, and the end of a criminal like him should always be celebrated in some respect. But it feels like too little, too late in some respect too.
bin Laden should’ve been captured and neutralized ages ago, and a lot of that hangs over Bush’s head. Since then, we’ve started…what…three wars now? Ok, 2 since I’m still not sure how invested we are materially in Libya. The point is, I’m not sure bin Laden, as a symbol of terrorism or as an actual leader within Al Qaida, is as important enough in making a real impact as it would’ve been, say…5 years ago.
And secondly, I look back and reflect on the whole ill-fated War on Terror bullshit and see a country that’s been conditioned to be pants-shittingly scared of its own shadow. We have actual serious, mainstream discussion over whether Muslims actually deserve to practice freely or even be considered Americans. Fact is…OBL is dead…but he pretty much fucking won as is. We are not the America we were pre-9/11, and that’s not a good thing. We’ve had a political discourse mistaking said same pants-shitting fear and marketed is as bravery, overextended ourselves worldwide, while being convinced that the only way to save our freedoms from ‘terrists’ is to strip them down by our own hands.
Kudos to Obama for doing what Shrub failed at and ignored. About damn time, and at least it shows Obama is more serious at this shit than Shrub was. But I’m just not sure how significant this is anymore.
As a corrective to Fred Hiatt, I suggest this take on things by a distinguished journalist who actually knows something about the region, Ahmad Rashid, writing for the BBC.
Given the choice many people will go with the chest-thumping idiot. Bravado and swagger make them feel good.
Its not just in politics – I see it all the time in business. The big talker gets approval even when he doesn’t get the job done.
One of the family members whose lost someone on 9/11 said it was justice.
It takes a burden off of the US. This was haunting us.
And not only the US.
I know, right? I larfed and larfed.
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Exactly. Other than making us feel better about ourselves (which we as a nation need about as much as an 18 year old boy) what did this do? We are not materially better off this morning than we were last Monday morning.
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Who said I was “sorry” girlfriend? What’s “whiny” about what I wrote? Also: bite me.
Right, genius. As if that’s a point relevant to my comments. (Never mind that OBL was mostly a figurehead in AQ since 9-11, but don’t let facts get in the way of your “anal-ysis.”)
Extreme Osama Unicorn Attack! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrIyO4SmY6Q
@JCT: It would be nice if we lived in an alternate universe where we could show a rich and influential terrorist a picture of a cute puppy and he’d stop murdering people.
Why hasn’t anyone tried that?
@chowkster: Holy crap, you’re not kidding. This really is 11-dimensional awesome, isn’t it?
I agree with this, but wouldn’t have so much before getting the news last night. My personal sense is something is different now, but it will take a while to shake out what that actually means.
Can we have 24 fucking hours to feel good about something without the “Oh, it won’t make a difference anyway” bullshit? Please?
Who thought that, idiots in the media? Saddam was hardly commanding anyone at the time he was captured.
Not that I think Osama has been commanding much in the last five years (probably the last ten years). What I do think this illustrates is what an unreliable ally Pakistan is. There is no fucking way they didn’t know where OBL had been hiding all this time.
If you can’t give Obama credit for this, you have Obama Derangement Syndrome.
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Those pelagic Annelid sea worms are pretty appreciative about now. Mammal meat makes a good snack for them…
Define “they.” Seems plausible that elements in the ISI knew that, but it doesn’t necessarily follow that the politicians or the military would (the ISI or at least huge parts of it have a tendency to follow their own lights). It illustrates how dysfunctional the Pakistani government is, to be more exact.
Mike Kay (Chief of Staff)
By 3:00 this afternoon, the wingnuts are going to be going apeshit that Obama is politicizing it and stealing credit from the armed forces.
No – AQ is not going to take 24 hours off & neither will the RNC/wingnut Wurlitzer.
It makes no sense to take time off to celebrate an insignificant victory during a real war. We have too far to go to put an end to the treat of terrorism and to try to restore democracy to America.
@Mark S.: According to ABC, there’s a major military academy several blocks from the compound. I’m sure the Pakistanis were clueless
This is as good a time as any to resurrect this gem.
“I got the sucker.” Yes, you did.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
I think my problem with the whole ‘let us feel good about this’ deal as applied here is the whole idea that this is supposed to be an end, or for others, THE end. It’s a means to an end, and I think Obama is one of the few people out there on the megaphone striking the right chord on it. Yes, be grateful and be happy that this is done, but this is not the end-all, be-all. We have work to do, and bin Laden’s death doesn’t mean we’ve ‘won’ yet.
@Mark S.: Well, I did hope this might give us an excuse to leave Iraq. But Bush never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
I’m hoping that this will give us cover to get out of Afghanistan.
@celticdragonchick: I’m confident the wingnuts will find an epically stupider angle than this.
For Distinguished Merit in the field of Really Bad Timing, it’s hard to beat Krauthammer’s latest column, entitled “Obama’s doctrine: Lead from behind”:
I am so grateful for this president. If this gets him some more of the appreciation he so richly deserves, then I am jubilant too, even though I am somewhat uncomfortable with rejoicing over death. Thank God for President Obama.
If we caught bin Laden in Abbotabad, does that mean Ayman al Zawahiri is in Costellostan?
@Captain Howdy: yea punk, when you write “sorry to pee pee on the parade of U-S-A! chanters ” why would anyone think you said sorry.
I’m with you. I just feel sadness and weariness over the continued cycle of violence.
What the fuck ever.
Bin Laden is about the last person I would dither over when it comes to having a bullet in the head. He asked for it, and he gotit. The account is paid.
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: Agree — but it is, importantly a much-needed reminder of the importance of using *good* intelligence to solve problems instead of listening to faux sources and invading countries to get the job done.
By no means an “end” but an important step.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
Ow. That joke literally hurt. Please bury it in the sea along with bin Laden, please. :(
@New Yorker: And this isn’t even something like us going to war for a country few had even heard of before Iraq invaded it, this is killing someone who masterminded one of the worst days in this country’s history. This will be remembered for a while. I think he’ll be in the 60s for a few months.
No doubt. Did you say 3:00 pm because that’s when Limbaugh’s show ends?
Who is on first?
What is on second?
I’m kinda with Captain Howdy, at least a little bit. Put it this way- I can’t be a bit sorry Osama is dead. Not one bit. Seems like that’s what you get when you do what he did, it’s a sort of moral justice in there.
I also won’t be waving a single flag or letting out a single cheer. I’m thinking, ‘good job’. Good though ugly job.
Get too pumped up about this sort of thing and next you’re cheering the death of Salvador Allende. U! S! A! U! S! A!
Get too pearl-clutchy about this sort of thing and next you’re refusing to cope while terrorist leaders are acting like Jared Loughner. Just because they are organized does not give them some kind of license to slaughter innocents in the name of their agenda (whether coherent or incoherent).
We used to have Geneva Conventions until everybody including us kind of rationalized them all away.
Osama bin Laden was a military target, for very good reason. Mission accomplished, finally. I really sympathize with people who were personally hurt in 9/11, but we all react to hurt differently.
One quip that’s been going around is that all Americans were furiously masturbating last night. I can vouch that I didn’t ;) but going a bit deeper, that’s sort of a gruesome picture. I guess I get turned on by things other than the crushing of my enemies and the lamentation of their women o_O
@dmsilev: Just you wait and see. Krauthammer will manage to turn this into further evidence that Obama is leading from behind.
Well, if you want to troll into the muck of K-Lo’s Corner, Mark Steyn is ripping the speech. Which I guess is the “acceptable” method of trashing President Obama this morning.
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: So don’t celebrate.
Something like that. I had him in mind specifically.
The angle Fox News is playing up, cued by Karl Rove, is that a key piece of intelligence prerequisite to tracking Bin Laden to the specific compound where the raid took place was provided @Gitmo by the “special interrogation techniques” used on Kalid Sheik Mohammed (key planner of 9/11 and an inmate there)…because that’s how we learned who the courier was that led us to the compound. (Note that other news organizations seem to be focusing instead that the impetus for the focus on this particular individual came from electronic evesdropping obtained in part via cooperation from Pakistani sources, and so we don’t know yet definitively how we learned about this courier).
Though Fox is minimizing mention of Obama’s name, they realize they can’t scrub him from being strongly, positively linked to the story, and so their other strategy is to dilute his role by: a) playing up US Military and Special Ops as much as possible as the key players, with as little focus on the administration as possible (and referring to “the President”, not “President Obama” or the “Obama Administration” to the extent possible when they must bring him into the story); b) playing up this success as a continuity operation from Bush to Obama, the fulfillment of Bush’s vow to get OBL.
Fox realizes there’s no possibility to put any negative spin on this for Obama whatever, and so they’re trying to minimize deflecting ANY spin toward the current Kenyan occupant of the White House.
I agree that it will take some time for this to sink in and what it means. I was so relieved.
I think this brings hope to all of us. We have had a rough time and I hope this for myself also. And for you.
So, we say to Sarah Palin:
That Hopey Changey Thingy is going damn well.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
Indeed, good point. Another painfully glaring difference between Obama and Bush the Lesser: Obama actually uses good intelligence, of both sorts, and tends to act on it.
Wingnut tears: Mark Steyn edition:
Cause that’s the way W would’ve done it!
And whoever Steven Hunter is (the novelist and Washington Post film critic), what a fucking jackass:
Whatever, fat boy.
Palin already put out a statement thanking the armed forces, without mentioning the President.
I still expect the Malkinbots and their ilk to attack the President directly.
You gotta love Balloon Juice.
We can literally start arguing over whether killing bin Laden was a good thing.
@Captain Howdy: Every so often in my life, there’s a day when I realize that what I want to say would be unnecessarily inflammatory, and no matter my intent, it would not be received well. So, out of respect for others, and the thought that I just don’t need the headaches that would accompany all the shit I’d get, I don’t say anything. Even if I was right, that particular day is not the day, because on that day, everybody and their brother is going to jump my shit and I just don’t need that.
Today is such a day for you, you stupid bastard.
Eugene Robinson, no warmonger he, in today‘s Washington Post:
“Triumphalism and unapologetic patriotism are in order.”
Mike Kay (Chief of Staff)
So did any of you watch this live on tee vee last night or did you find out about it this morning when you woke up?
But Bush kept us safe!
As I recall Howard Dean was laughed at when he said in a debate that the capture of Saddam didn’t mean a thing. He turned out to right.
This, OTHO, has some real meaning. As long as OBL was at large other could feel that they too could get away with similar acts of terrorism. Their calculations for their safety has to increase their risk assessment. Reports are that OBL’s computers have been captured and–I suspect–other records. Saddam was found in a hole. OBL in a command center. I suspect that there will be other actions to follow this one. And that is as it should be.
Ed in NJ
You are off by about 10 hours or so. Went to Free Republic last night to get a taste of how they were handling the bad news (to them) and they had already broken down the speech last night into how many times Obama had said “I”.
Not sure what’s worse, the rush to diminish the accomplishment/criticize the celebration by the assholes on the right or the douchebags on the left.
Mike Kay (Chief of Staff)
@Hawes: nihilists and haters are incapable of ever feeling good. it is a derangement syndrome.
@debit: It would seem not.
This is why I always like you so much.
@Mike Kay (Chief of Staff):
I just found out a few minutes ago when I fired up Balloon Juice and saw that Obama picture with the hilarious caption. I thought it was some Balloon Juice wag indulging in wishful thinking. Then I realized it was true!!!!!
@Mike Kay (Chief of Staff): Woke up to an email. And I was online – ironically – watching YouTube clips of the BBC comedy The Thick Of It, which gave us perhaps the definitive movie about the Iraq/Bush Clusterfuck, In The Loop.
I wished I had bothered to click through Yahoo before I went to bed. I have an excellent 10 year old Bourbon to toast the event, but it seemed ill fitting with breakfast.
@soonergrunt: Hah soonergrunt — just thought of you, one of my students is a former Marine officer and her just called to warn me that he would be late today and whoa, baby he sounded uh, hungover.
@Mike Kay (Chief of Staff): Was watching the Mets game with my son when my college student daughter called to tell me to go online because twitter just “exploded” with OBL info.
Ah yes, the fly swat. Another classic.
Mike Kay (Chief of Staff)
Sooner, I want to thank you for your service to our country.
BTW, in a perfect world, I would have liked bin Laden to have been captured and put on trial, but here on Planet Earth, you know there is no fucking way he was going to let himself be taken alive. If he had waved a white flag (literal or figurative) and then taken the bullet to the head, then there’a problem. Somehow, I get the feeling he was shooting at the SEALs.
Um. Those “special interrogation techniques” for KSM? After Cheney went on the air and gushed about them, the FBI guy who was actually in charge of the interrogation went on and said that actually, every bit of data they got from KSM either had been extracted without torture or could have been.
Starting on 9/12.
@Hawes: I see what you did there.
@Dennis G.: The actionable intel from OBL’s compound/mansion has to be substantial. I’m a little surprised they announced the raid before acting on it, but I guess the downed helicopter necessitated an announcement.
@Mike Kay (Chief of Staff): I found out about it through my Facebook feed of all places.
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
Imagine instead how the attempt to mount this sort of raid on OBL might have unfolded had the US government instead been relying on the genius of the intel operation headed by Douglas Feith and Donald Rumsfeld used in the runup to the invasion of Iraq.
I sorry, I won’t believe it until I see the long form death certificate.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
“Say it again.”
“One more time.”
(I guess Doctor Who has taken over my brain.)
We would have blown up the Indian Embassy and claimed we found evidence of a WMD program.
Not to go all Lao Tzu (or Laozi, whichever you prefer) but “leading from behind” might not be a bad thing.
And, if you’re a Puppeteer, it’s de rigeur.
This probably means next to nothing as far as our national security.
It is, however, a moment of desperately needed and long overdue catharsis and closure for everyone who suffered loss on September 11th, 2001.
Can we just… celebrate that for a day?
@cmorenc: No kidding, Cheney probably would have nuked Islamabad while Bush was taking a leak.
“Don’t worry George, we can just blame it on Clinton, that always works.”
Republicans are mad because they voted against the guy who got Bin Laden.
@Chris: You won’t get any argument from me that the claim by Rove that the key piece of intel came via Gitmo “special interrogation” is a real stretch, if not outright full of bogosity. I’m simply reporting that this is the angle Rove et. al. are playing up on Fox.
Wow. Most of you people really are idiots.
Maybe OBL masterminded 9/11, maybe he didn’t. The U.S. government has never provided definitive proof either way.
Maybe OBL is dead, maybe he isn’t. Maybe he’s been dead for eight years, maybe he’s still alive. The U.S. government has not provided definitive proof either way.
Let’s review: Alleged raid half a world away. Body allegedly dumped at sea before we can blink twice. Unilateral choice to kill, not capture. No…coming from the U.S. government that has lied its ass of for at least 50 years, that’s not suspicious at all.
Maybe OBL is dead, maybe he’s not. Pictures of his dead body would be helpful. A trial would have provided, you know…civilized justice and closure and all, but you know, don’t let that get in the way of your credulous slobbering death celebration today.
For some reason, I have continued to think BJ is home to a substantial cohort of skeptical, intelligent observers who ask for evidence before making a choice. All I see here this morning are braying fools, jumping up and down on cue, and throwing around the word “we” as though they had any damn thing to do with OBL’s alleged murder.
You Know Obama had Bin Laden killed so he could divert attention from the forged birth certificate. Why else would he have waited to so long since they knew where OBL was for such a long time.
Quite literally. Go to the Fox News website home page and try to find mention of Obama (he’s mentioned once in fine print). You will however see a prominent headline and picture of Bush.
“Bush: Killing Bin Laden ‘A Victory for America'”
Which should have been:
“Bush: I fucked up, but the black guy got him for me.”
Sad and pathetic really.
Oh yeah. Not arguing against you… just pointing out that the NewsCorpers were full of shit, again.
Odie Hugh Manatee
There’s already a fake death photo of OBL making the rounds.
There’s already 500+ comments on Althouse at how this doesnt matter.
They never let me down.
@Tim, Interrupted: You disappoint. You really need to bring a better game to these parts than that.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Get over yourself. Trials don’t provide closure, only resurrection would provide that. I also don’t need to see OBL’s body to accept the administrations statement that he’s dead.
Dunno, but I guess you’re from Yourjokeisbad.
@Tim, Interrupted: Handy hint: Reynolds Wrap Heavy Duty can be folded into very attractive headware, and doesn’t rip as easily as the normal-grade stuff.
“show us the death certificate” ……Tim
I surprised they didn’t go for the Drudge route of putting a picture of Obama eating a strawberry at the WH Press Corps dinner the other night with a big caption:
Obama joking at dinner, mocking others while SEAL’s execute plan to kill OBL!!!
@Tim, Interrupted: And the turd comes to the punch bowl.
Think about this, half-wit: What administration would ever LIE about killing bin Laden? The inherent risks and overwhelming negative blowback that would come from such a thing being uncovered make that a non-starter. Not even Bush would make that mistake.
@Hawes: Beat ya to it.
Have you considered a visit to your local psychiatrist?
Krauthammer is upset that Obama “leads from behind”. I guess he much preferred it when we were led by an ass.
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
I’ve always thought the “closure” meme was bullshit.
I agree with 9/11 survivor Harry Waizer: there’s a difference between a killing being necessary and justifiable — that of Osama bin Ladin was certainly both — and it being something to go out and celebrate. Killing Osama brings back not a single one of his victims. It doesn’t amount to a definitive victory over Al Qa’idah, not yet anyway, let alone over terrorism. This doesn’t mean that the US is now free to order its troops onto the choppers and out of Iraq/Afghanistan. Iraq has nothing to do with Al Qa’idah, and the problem in Afghanistan is the Taliban. All the arguments against a sudden pullout still apply.
Another thing. Relief that Osama is dead is justified. Celebrating that a life has been taken, even a monstrous man’s life, is unseemly. Waizer may well feel as I do: that it brings the celebrators down, a little, toward the level of him whose killing they celebrate.
@Tim, Interrupted: Better re-adjust your tinfoil hat, it seems to be askew.
@dmsilev: ack, you beat me to it.
@Poopyman: Apparently our joke sucks.
I don’t care. Fire away.
Feeling too good right now.
@soonergrunt: Well said sir.
When do we get to the “breeding humans for luck” part of the story?
DougJ, you are a funny man but this needs more work.
“I truly am not that concerned about him.”
George W. Bush on Osama bin Laden
So when the question is asked how much credit does Bush deserve for this, the answer should be “not a f**king bit”.
He’s the reason it took 10 years for this day to happen. His priority was dicking around in Iraq, which current events have shown to be a complete waste of blood, treasure, and time.
Right back atcha.
That was about the stupidest thing I’ve seen you say here. It is birther-stupid. Skepticism is important. Willful ignorance is just plain dumb.
@5 Captain Howdy:
I suspect most of the folks who come to BJ are equally tired and suspect of the vengeance meme, but this SOB had it coming.
As you sow, so shall you reap.
a ‘progressive’ pissing on a parade? unpossible!
Tim, Incoherent is waiting for the long-form “I-done-did-it” certificate, which is currently sealed in the Bureau of Secret Fucking Records in Honolulu – at least until Fred Trump’s whiny son get’s some air time to force the issue.
On the plus side: Tim, Incoherent’s screed saves me the effort (and threat to my sanity) of going over to Red Stoat or Faux, to see the wingnuts’ heads ‘splodin’. Timmy, do I owe you $3 for the delivery to my “door”?
Does, did, Hiatt know we got OBL?
Anybody watching Faux and Fiends today?
From Eugene Robinson,
haven’t anything to say here in a while, but this display of happiness & political “analysis” from the targeted murder of a terrorist mastermind is more than a bit nauseating, not to mention ill-advised. what on earth do you all think this USA chest-thumping at killing someone (even if that someone could be said to “deserve it”) will produce?
and on a separate note: talking about approval levels as a consequence of killing someone–even if that someone is bin Laden–is from any moral standard, appalling. when did killing become an approval mechanism? have you all sunk so far into the Empire/Bush/amoral political mindset that you discuss approval ratings for assassinations?
there have been more than a few regimes where killing was considered “good” from a political standpoint. the USA doesn’t have clean hands about lots of things, but this is a departure into another level, and that level is not up, but down.
addendum from Chris Hedges on this event:
ps: please don’t give me any crap about 9/11. i was in manhattan that day.
Cue Biden… THIS IS A BIG FUCKING DEAL
@Bulworth: his fucked up op-ed is in the same paper with the front page headline that OBL is dead.
@Hawes: Yeah, I had a bit of remorse right after I hit “send”, realizing what I just admitted.
Still, it seemed like a good idea at the time.
Shorter Tim, Interrupted: “Maybe my head is all the way up my ass, maybe it’s only half-way. I can’t tell, my eyes are clogged full of shit.”
@Mike Kay (Chief of Staff): Got woken at midnight by a jubilant Mr WereBear.
I have zero problem celebrating this particular death. Rejoicing in the demise of evil is not at all like rejoicing in the demise of innocents.
Then again, I was a helicopter door gunner and my judgment may be suspect when it comes to automatic weapons killing terrorists.
I doubt it, though.
This guy inadvertently live tweeted the attack:
Seen some conspiracy theories in my email already–that bin Laden had been killed a week ago, suspicions about the burial at sea etc.
This should put paid to this kind of nonsense, if we really are the reality based people.
Also see emptywheel on the possible source of the intelligence:
Forgive me is this has already been covered, buy why did they throw his body in the drink? I don’t get it.
Nope. Spot on.
You know, take a look at the long series of Obama’s political opponents who have self-destructed in a variety of improbably hilarious ways, and then ask that question…
…Also, too, that’s the *real* birth conspiracy theory. Clearly, the Puppeteers had to bring two wildly separated bloodlines together to create their final specimen.
Roger the Cabin Boy
Wonder if “burial at sea” meant that he went over the side of a ship or out the door of a helicopter. Hopefully they sewed a pig in the bag with him.
The new menu item at the Carnegie Deli for their breakfasts is the Bid Laden Special.
What, too soon?
As reported, what Osama got after his body was ID’d was a Muslim interment at sea.
To get rid of it before it stank the place up.
Seriously, to bury him on land with a Muslim funeral would have been just asking for the gravesite to become a shrine.
This way they can say he was given a proper burial according to the rites of his religion without any permanent reminder of the bastard’s existence on this earth.
how about you tell us all exactly how happy we’re supposed to be, and we’ll act accordingly, within those explicit boundaries. wouldn’t want to catch ourselves accidentally chanting something, even for a second.
Thanks for your offer, but I don’t think Mrs. SFAW would approve. But I’m certainly gratified/honored/appreciative.
Oh, that’s not what you meant? Damn.
@jayackroyd: My favorite: “Uh oh, now I’m the guy who liveblogged the Osama raid without knowing it.”
Gin & Tonic
I, too, am discomfited by the celebration of the death of another human, no matter who. But worse, as Tim F points out, is the braying of all the people saying “we” who had nothing to do with this. I know people who have been involved with this sort of work (in Vietnam; I am old) and they a) don’t consider people outside their team part of any “we” but, more importantly b) are, to a man, exceedingly humble about their work, and not just for “national security” reasons. A large part of the training and selection process is to remove the testosterone-fueled hot shots. If you are trained to kill someone at close range 18 different ways, you get pretty serious.
The only downside is that I just had to see Dick Cheney on my teevee.
@AkaDad: except for the anthrax
so his followers don’t have a place to go to make a pilgrimage,,,
Because James Cameron is bored with the Titanic?
Great! This would not be a merely symbolic gain. It could give us real assistance.
@maye: No burial in ground means no place for followers to visit and use as a focus of new activity.
1) The operations was Navy SEALS, they transferred the body to a nearby fleet, and the order to dispose the body after examination meant dumping it where convenient.
2) By dumping it into an ocean, this means there is no grave – marked or unmarked – for Bid Laden’s fanboys to seek out and worship. No martyr’s signposts. In fact, they really need to consider tearing down that mansion he had built (with terror money, the greedhead!) to avoid making it a shrine of his “final battle”.
3) Obama wanted to give the conspiracy nuts something to chew on now that he’s shredded their birther BS. “What? No Body?! CONSPIRACY!” That should keep them busy for the next 10 years…
@Roger the Cabin Boy:
out the door of a helicopter – you bet!
and let’s not think for a minute that the SEALS didn’t get the proof they needed that it was him.
Why do you require a “substantial cohort”? If this is what you believe, fine. There’s no reason to bully and berate people into agreeing with you.
What I love about the people always screaming “sheeple!” is they’re always (also) looking for a flock.
@Roger the Cabin Boy:
And that would accomplish exactly what? It wouldn’t make him anymore dead, it wouldn’t change anything for the ones with relatives who died on 9/11, on the USS Cole, and in other terrorist attacks by al Qaeda.
It would just make a lot of muslims sad or angry.
OBL was one of those people whose death leaves the world a better place just because he’s not in it any longer. There are lots of people like that, but he was a biggie. Evil to the core. Good riddance.
To show respect for Islamic traditions. You see, one does not want to let one’s respect for a person get in the way of one’s murder of that same individual, but when disposing of the body of the dead person, one wants always to show utter respect for their religion.
Or, alternatively, if one wants to guarantee reasonable doubt that one has killed one’s victim, one should always SAY they threw the body in the drink, whether or not this actually happened, preferably as quickly as possible. Also, too, furthermore, and additionally, this is a good lie to tell if the allegedly dead person has been dead for many years already.
So there ya go.
@Roger the Cabin Boy:
Not worth the effort.
thanks to the Special Forces who got the job done. :)
this President continues to just crack me up….not in ha ha way, but, he’s sitting there, slaughtering Trump at the dinner, knowing that he was about to drop this bomb.
he just makes me smile.
@Tim, Interrupted: Murder my fucking ass. What bullshit.
@Peter J: And kill a perfectly innocent pig.
“I’ve never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.” – Mark Twain
Donald, that you? How’s the casinos doin’? When’s yer next presser?
You know, the one where you show Capricorn One, and ‘splain that the moon landing was faked.
And, any day now, they’ll find Hilter in Argentina. Or perhaps North Minehead or Peterborough.
I cannot even continue to plod through the comments after reading some that have ticked me to the extreme.
On the other hand you did not have my experience and all things are relative in life.
This announcement late last night brought me back to the day of 9/11 in a flash and what was happening right before my eyes after the initial shock. We had students from NYC in many stages of grief even as they did not know if their family members had survived. This is what I cannot ever erase from my mind.
I don’t ask for anyone to celebrate the demise of this totally inhumane species that walked the same ground as those more worthy than he could ever be. What I ask is for some thought on how your blathering will affect those who suffered greatly at his hands.
@JCT: This is correct Bin Laden could have been taken down without the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan given ten years to accomplish it.
But why would you start with the assumption they wouldn’t document it in some way? This was a person, he had a nationality and identity. He’s been indicted.
Is your assumption they shot him in the head and threw him in the ocean? Doesn’t that sound outlandish?
There’s been an international arrest warrant for him since 1998. Obama signed actual written orders on April 29 of this year.
I think I would begin with the opposite assumption.
@sparky: You know what Chris Hedges was for years? A war correspondent. The guy made a lot of money off of the suffering of others. When he apologizes for that, then he’ll be worth listening to.
I like that term “murder”. Yes, we should have let him empty every AK-47 clip he had into the SEALs and the ones left alive should have handcuffed him and declared hum under arrest.
Can you please go start volunteering for Ralph Nader’s 2012 presidential campaign and leave us the fuck alone?
@Gin & Tonic:
indeed, every time a mass-murdering asshole dies baby jesus sheds a tear.
@Roger the Cabin Boy:
You ignorant fucker, what would that accomplish excactly, other than disrespecting a dead body? You want the US government to act like a delinquent youth. Besides, for Muslims, eating a pig meat is forbiden not touching it.
Roger the Cabin Boy
Actually, I’d rather they’d been able to take him alive and bring him back here for trial. In Manhattan, then D.C., then Shanksville, PA. Then to some underground cell in the Florence, CO Supermax. Yeah, I know it’d be a big security headache, finding someone courageous enough to represent him would be difficult, and the wingers would scream about it but it would be satisfying to see him tried for his crimes.
Not to be too crass about it, but did I just hear all of the oxygen sucked out of the republicans’ debt-limit extortion scheme? Good luck going at the president with that one now.
Yes I am REALLY “sorry”.
Does that help clarify my “feelings,” arse-munch?
@TooManyPaulWs: I hope they saved some DNA
Yes I am REALLY “sorry”.
Does that help clarify my “feelings,” arse-munch?
There’s a difference between “dithering” over and celebrating a death. I expressed agreement with the 9-11 survivor who can bring himself to do the latter.
This is good news for Republicans.
it’s best to ignore the nihilists.
I don’t get why on every issue you have to be either fer it or agin it.
On bin Laden, a part of me feels like dancing in the streets celebrating while at the same time thinking of those who lost loved ones on 911, some seen on videos from last night, who were not jumping for joy but sadly relieved to have some closure.
Navigating life is dealing with shades of gray but in this country, everything has been reduced to simplistic pro or con, lines drawn in the sand, views. There’s no room anymore for understanding where people are coming from in both pro or con camps.
@celticdragonchick: :)@Tim, Interrupted: Call me an idiot? Get in line first.
Interesting article comparing reactions of jihadists and neocons. I agree with the soldier quoted at the end:
The best thing that could happen from this is for us to drop the military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq and put our efforts into these kinds of police actions plus strong diplomatic and economic support for the democratic movements throughout the Arab world.
I’m not happy in the “USA! USA! USA!” way. More like when I heard that John Wayne Gacy had finally been executed — I oppose the death penalty, but I wasn’t too upset that he got it. Die as you lived.
Though you have to love that Tim is so deep in his conspiracy theories that he probably thinks that the guy who accidentally live-tweeted the attack is a CIA plant. After all, the only other possibility would be that it really happened and Osama bin Laden really was killed last night, and that’s something that Tim just can’t allow into his brain since it would reflect well on the president he despises.
I am disappointed, I admit that.
Best option: Arrest – trial – life
Second option: Arrest – trial – death penalty
(Osama could have hardly complained about that, being himself a supporter)
Third best option: This.
But so what? We don’t live in the best of all possible worlds, but in a world of third best options.
Chad N Freude
Rumsfeld on the killing of bin Laden:
Mike Kay (Team America)
@Chad N Freude: Bush shut down the CIA efforts to find bin Laden
@Chad N Freude:
lol, it’s all about him, innit?
@Tim, Interrupted: Hey Timmy, DIAF. pluueeze.
@chopper: harkens back to the poutrage regarding the memorial service in Tucson a few months back. Some people pissed, some understanding all while people from outside the community passing judgment on those within. The spontaneous outbreaks of celebration just happen, who are we to know and understand what drives everyone. We don’t know or understand just how 9/11 touched everyone to be able to get all pundity with detached emotions regarding people feeling a sense of relief over OBL’s death. Sorely tired with folks trying to imply that there is a set of guidelines for behavior when international terrorists are killed.
I, too, would have preferred to have him tried and locked in a tiny cell for the rest of his life as he watched the world pass him by, but it’s not exactly a shock that a terrorist would decide to be killed rather than captured.
Chad N Freude
I’ve been planning a vacation in Spain with a couple of days in Morocco*. Now I have to rethink my itinerary and maybe not go to Morocco because of the risk to Americans traveling abroad**. [Trump-like rant] I don’t know how Obama learned of my vacation plans, but he’s clearly trying to thwart me and ruin my vacation. I will never vote for him again!***[/end Trump-like rant]
*This is true.
** This is also true too.
*** This is snark. I felt the need to say this because … well, you know.
Folks here calling for a trial have no fucking clue. None.
And, didn’t fuck it all up by trying to move too fast so as to get it done for the Nov. elections. You just know Bush/Rove would have done nothing else. They’d have screwed it up, & he’d have gotten away, but they’d have shown they were SERIOUS about defense. Or something.
I do not understand the whining by some here & elsewhere that “this doesn’t change things, OBL wasn’t central to Al Qaeda any more . . .” Who gives a shit? He did it, he’s been bragging for 10 years how he did it & how he’s going to hit us again. I really don’t care if he’s completely out of the organization at this point. Retribution & justice are a bitch, aren’t they?
Love these photoshops. Is there a “Im in ur base killing ur doodz” image yet?
Clearly, if you weren’t up all night jerking off to the thought of his death, you’re a weak kneed Not Serious person who wants to give terrorists puppies and sing kumbaya with them. Not in MY country! WOLVERINES!!
Turn it into the U.S. Embassy.
Chad N Freude
@Cain: Or a US military base.
@Roger the Cabin Boy:
Why would we do that? We’re too chickenshit to even get Guantanamo prisoners a fair trial on the mainland, much less the mastermind. He’s probably even more crazy. He should be tried at The Hague, like all international criminals and despots.
I’m sure that Osama is quite happy to die rather than being captured. I doubt he would have allowed himself to be captured alive.
It ends the chapter of a guy the CIA trained.. and had to be put down like a mad dog.
I was wondering why the clock radio came on with a talk show babbling about Osama bin Laden being dead, but trying to get a little extra sleep anyway…in BERLIN!
I’m glad the bastard’s dead, and the hot, angry wingnuts’ tears are as a fine single-malt Scotch. Rumsfeld’s pathetic attempt to share in the glory are that nice splash of cold water that wakes up the taste of cask strength whisky.
Well done, Mr. President, and good job to everyone on down who quietly did their bit to make this happen *and* cover all contingencies.
It’s sunny (if cold) here, and it feels like a good day.
Tomorrow we get back to work rolling up the Wingnut Age of Aquarius (9/11/01-5/2/11). Yesterday and today we got to see how adults run things (funny how the Left became the adults and the Right became the goddam kids running across my lawn–“Bob Roberts” was prophecy). Start by publicly laughing in the faces of snot-nosed Regency University grads repeating talking points no matter what the subject, in the tone of voice a teacher’s pet uses when he’s been busted and hopes to take someone down with him. Tell the hordes of mewling Objectivists quoting their heroine’s disordered thoughts like she’s some capitalist Chairman Mao to shut the fuck up and try running a state, preferably a red one, like Galt’s Gulch. Video or it didn’t happen.
Don’t think of it as a celebration of killing a man. To some it is, but even that obscures what I think is the important truth. This is the celebration of finishing something we started. Something we had to sit through 10 years of George Bush not only fucking up, but ignoring while he used it as an excuse to start an utterly useless war. This is a celebration of finally having a sense of competence again, of having corrected one of Bush’s most emotionally galling mistakes.
It may well be a symbolic victory, but it’s a gigantic symbol. It is a reverse JFK killing (in kind, if not size), a moment when people stop feeling that the government is useless and corrupt and it is too late to fix the mistakes of Bush’s Presidency.
I don’t even believe Justice exists, but whether or not this was Revenge is a sideshow. It was a Success that makes us finally feel viscerally that Bush is no longer in charge.
So which thug has the Holy Grail/Troll bridge moment by saying Obama instead of Bin Laden in a speech on this subject?
I’m putting my money on Sean Hannity.
Yeah, I’m with the people who think it’s wrong to celebrate a death, no matter how hideous the person. I would have rather seen him captured, tried, and put in prison for life. It would be nice to think we’re a teeny bit better than our opponents, and I’ve always thought America stood for rule of law. Our magnanimity in victory over Germany and Japan fundamentally reshaped the world, and I think we could use a little more of that today.
Not that I fault the team involved. As long as they had “capture or kill” orders, then this outcome is a-ok by me.
“I am most distressed. The lack of flight suits and swaggering about nonexistent achievements only emboldens the enemy.”
All hat, no cattle, or as I like to say -all cod, no piece.
A Fox affiliate has already with their headline, “Obama Bin Laden is Dead”
Obama was wrong here people; the SEALs should have surrounded Ben Ladin and did a group cuddle and hugged the unhappy thoughts out of Ben Ladin until Ben Ladin renounced his evil ways. Then they all could have shook hands and walked into a happy new day.
@soonergrunt: Yo, SoonerG: this is a bridge too far, if not about Hedges (about whom I know little) but about war correspondents. I was just remembering with her partner my old friend Buffy Neuffer — Elizabeth Neuffer as her byline had it — who covered conflict from Africa to the Caucasus to the crappy stretch of Iraqi road where her humvee flipped and killed her.
Reporting on wars is essential for a democracy that wages war, and presents those who do so with enormous danger. The casualty rate for journos in conflict zones is high — often significantly higher than for armed uniformed service men and women. And for almost all of them, especially the locals who help western correspondents, the pay runs from poor to OK.
You can have lots of complaints about war coverage — I do. But those who do it well are both exceptionally skilled and damn brave.
billy rae valentine
@debit: haha that’s how i felt. like, people have that need to be the guy with the most enlightened opinion. just gotta come in and say don’t be happy, it’s meaningless and he was a figurehead.
i wish we could have kept him alive. but honestly, i’ll take what i can get. i refused to let anybody on tv or the internet ruin my emotional reaction. it FEELS huge to me and that’s all i care about today.
i woke up and BAM! a thousand opinions from a bunch of people WHO DID NOT FIND OSAMA. haha a bunch of backseat drivers who make a living off having opinions. bleh back to normal already around the blogosphere.
The Allies were magnanimous towards the people of those countries after our victories. Their leaders, not so much.
@Tim, Interrupted: I frequently take credit for crimes that can get me executed. On videotape.
Watching everyone get riled up about my claims that I gut twelve-year old girls and then stuff their bodies with Stove Top Stuffing because my mother never made it right at Thanksgiving is hilarious. Since I have never actually done this, I’ve never spent any time in jail and my neighbors all think I’m a hoot at parties.
I’m sure you’re also under indictment for several somewhat lesser crimes. A blown-up embassy here, a bombed warship there….
@300baud: Just want to clear up a misconception here. They did not have “capture or kill” orders. They had straight-up “kill” orders, period, and did exactly what they were instructed to with an excess of caution and a minimum amount of harm to bystanders.
@New Yorker: You get a camera in front of me and I’ll say the craziest shit. I love confessing to crimes I had nothing to do with, and the only people who think its funnier than I do are the cops.
@dmsilev: I just saw that and larfed. Heckuva job, Krauthammer!
If that is true, and it may or may not be; I don’t know, I wasn’t there as you appear to have been, I am curious as to your take on why KILL instead of CAPTURE?
Wouldn’t it have been ten thousand times more awesome and cathartic for this country to have the alleged 9/11 mastermind in captivity, paraded before cameras, humiliated, and defeated, than for us to imagine this alleged firefight and quick burial at sea in our heads?
Surely this firefight was filmed by military personnel for confirmation and posterity! If so, will the public ever be allowed to see the film? If not, why not?
According to Stars and Stripes, it was “capture or kill”:
(Yes, it’s written in a very jingoistic style but it’s Stars and Stripes, so what did you expect?)
They’re waiting for Wikileaks to release it.
We fucking get it already that nothing happened unless you witnessed it or saw the guaranteed-not-to-be-Breibarted videos, proving to your satisfaction that, yes, whatever-it-is really truly actually no-shit honest-to-Jeebus happened.
Because, unlike you and your birther/truther/paranoid brethren, the SEALs had a fucking job to do, and they weren’t wasting any time on thoughts of “Wait! There will be some dimwit, somewhere, who won’t believe it!”
You are a tool, fool, and idiot.
Cause, you know, there are never, ever military combat photographers or videographers. No, that has never happened before.
The U.S. government, which has lied many times in this and other wars, claims it killed OBL. Maybe so. Maybe not. Why is it so important to you to BELIEVE it with all your heart, soul, mind, and heart? Why do you so badly need to pretend that you have incontrovertible evidence of this?
Why are you incapable of maintaining a healthy skepticism?
Because you are an idiot.
Tim, Tim, Tim –
Time for you to grow up, stop projecting (re: “idiot”, you seem to like throwing that term around an awful lot), and join the real world.
Yes, we’re all aware that things have been faked in the past.
Like Obama’s Certificate of Live Birth, for example.
Even if there were the slightest glimmer of an inkling of a possibility that you have any idea how a rational adult (e.g. yours truly) thinks, you’d still be wrong.
But I’ll make a deal with you: if an actual video of a living Osama bin Laden,
shot(whoops!) filmed since yesterday, appears within the next week, I will proclaim, on this site, my error, and that you, despite all current indications to the contrary, were right. You don’t even have to put up anything for this bet! What could be better? I won’t even require that it be the Long-Form Video!
But until that happens, why don’t you toddle back to Red Stoat, or Hot Air, or PowerSlime, or wherever you and your ilk hang out these days.
For someone who seems unable to construct a rational thought, you’re awfully quick to call someone else an idiot. (Although I realize paranoia need not preclude intelligence.) You talk pretty big for a dull-normal, but I bet you’re right at home when you and the other Birthers get together.
You’d have to talk to Osama bin Laden about that. He’s the one that shot back. Oh, and used his wife as a human shield, according to reports on ABC News (Australia) this morning.
If Osama had put his hands up and surrendered, then yes, they should have captured him. But no law enforcement officer or soldier is obligated to try and capture someone who, according to the reports we have, was shooting at them.