Sociopaths live, and we are surrounded by them. Here’s Sullivan awarding Thoreau with a Moore Award for rhetoric showing insufficient deference to the state and to the post Osama bloodlust. The offending quote:
So many awful things have happened in the battles to find this man, so many awful things have been “justified” in the name of responding to his attacks, that killing him won’t fix a damn thing. There is no justice here. He started it, but our leaders have continued it, and it will not stop.
Oh, the vapors! Pointing out we’ve done horrible things is so Un-American and such a downer. Hush, you! I’m on a bloodlust high!
Here is Sullivan, a few hours later, discussing the political benefits for Obama of killing bin Laden. And for fun, here is Sullivan quoting Frum, both exuberant that this finally will show the doubters:
David Frum hopes “we have at last seen the end of this ugly insinuation that there is something less than fully American about the black president with the exotic name:
President Obama has performed the first job of an American president: he has used the power of the nation well to defeat the nation’s enemies and defend the nation’s people. After an interval for celebration of yesterday’s accomplishment, it will be back to politics as usual. But let’s hope that this time, the usual will have this difference: that the administration can be criticized as “liberal” without being libeled as “alien.”
Because, as we all know, there is nothing more American than killing foreigners! Look, I hated Osama too, and I am glad the man is dead and buried where no one can ever build a tomb or monument to his evil, but there is something sick about someone who tries to shut down speech as mild and tepid as what Thoreau wrote and then going on and cheering the political and other benefits. I know which one of the above quotes I find repulsive.
Nemo_N
Perhaps the part that deserves some nuance is “There is no justice here.” Some degree of justice, perhaps?.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
Johnny, we may owe Osama a debt of gratitude. Were it not for the GOP overreach that his attacks enabled the Team of the Feckless to achieve, this Nation may have not seen the full extent of the Shit-Fail that is the current panoply of True Conservative Activist ideals.
Yes, it may have resulted in some short-term pain, but if we’ve learned despite setbacks, we can go forward a more sane nation.
+6 Oronoco Brazilian Rum (I think)
MikeJ
Some people really do just need killin’. I wish they had killed him a decade ago so we wouldn’t have had as good an excuse to stay in Afghanistan.
Obama actually got us 95% out of Iraq because nobody could come up with a good reason to be there. Had Bush done his job, we’d be in the same situation in Afghanistan.
jeff
Hi John–thank you for saying what I wish I had the platform to say. Sorry for the serious comment, but that’s earnest and all that I need to say.
amphodale
More bloodlust!
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iUynIyKNiEspEUjXAdgavTdN3ELw?docId=b138a7d03d234700be7afdfb5ff9fc28
I’m certainly glad that’s news. I mean… he did get shot in the head.
WereBear (itouch)
It seems Sullivan’s statement is lamenting the screwups without acknowledging that Something did have to be done. It was finally dne right; because this alone was the only thing that did have to get done.
Mark B
I kind of like the ‘They Live’ reference in the title.
kestral
Can we can go home now? Please? Everything was done and initiated in the name of tracking that man down. Well, we finally did what we said we were going to do.
But we’ve ruined so much, destroyed so much… I know the answer is probably going to be “not yet”, but I have to ask it anyway. Can we please stop fighting and let our soldiers come home now?
TheYankeeApologist
It seems that every time Sullivan gives someone a Moore Award, it’s for saying something sensible and thought-provoking, or shorter – something true.
So, isn’t a Moore Award a good thing? Maybe Sully’s just pulling some eleven-dimensional blog chess thing just to fuck with you, Cole.
Loneoak
If I may quote myself:
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
At +7. Mild flavor. On the rocks. Vanilla notes.
Proper remedy for helping out a friend in a bad power trip bind with a teabagger public employer.
Mark B
The thing about wearing the glasses, is they give you a headache if you wear them too long. And Meg Foster looks a whole lot better when you’re not wearing them.
Keith G
It really isn’t Sully’s fault. He suffers from a not so rare variant of manic/depressive disorder know as MPBC. That is manic/petulantly bitchy complex.
For the last several weeks, he has been petulantly bitchy excoriating Obama for not being as serious as Ryan. Sunday’s act of violence tweaked Sully’s daddy issue personality disorder and he has now flipped into his manic stage wherein he gratefully believes that Daddy Obama will set the world right.
Meep meep
Jeffro
From Le Douche, at the NYT
For once – and only once – in my life, I would love for the man to have countless column inches to explain exactly what he means by “blunders”, “quagmires”, and perhaps most especially, “strategic blunders”. That would be quite welcome.
EJ
And yet, Radley Balko gets a pass for saying more or less the same thing. Wonder why…
Loneoak
I feel this is a classic example of conservatives being rather incapable of thinking through the messiness of the world. If you are willing to recognize that killing a single man, even a very important man, is questionably not worth the destruction wrought upon the world in his pursuit—a burden borne almost exclusively by the little people—then you lack spine and hate all things good and righteous. If you gloat that your predilections for certain abstract considerations about politics are confirmed by the murder of said very important man, you can still be brave and upstanding. No where in the conservative mind does the actual suffering and pain of those little people press upon their conscience, except when the little people can be idealized in a way that confirms their politics.
Mike Kay (Team America)
who give a shit about sully
Fred
Cowards only attack when you are vulnerable. In these strong moments…SUDDENLY the cowards are all saying “now is not the time for politics”.
But they are COWARDS…so they just can’t help themselves. It’s in their DNA.
Republicans are cowards.
General Stuck
Wingnuts are even more twisted up about war stuff as they are sex and reproductive stuff. Warfare and smiting enemies abroad is such an integral part of their personal psychology, as it is their political platform. It is what gets them up in the morning. Most liberals get up thinking, “what can I do to prevent crazy wingnuts from doing crazy shit like starting unnecessary wars, and most wingnuts wake up wondering who is a threat to them on any given day, and how to defeat them. And to thwart liberals from harshing their bloodlust toward neverending victory.
But the real fear they have of liberals, is that somehow one of their presidents will find and kill their previous and current numero uno foreign bad guy. That makes them crazy watb’s of the first degree. Some of them, like Frum, or even Guiliani today, have just enough working brain cells to not fall into that trap. For those who do, it will be a months long session of wasted time spent in the Thunderdome with a strawman.
srv
– They Live
Elia Isquire
Well, I found Greenwald and Campos and the like to be quite annoying today, but, that said, this post is still otm. I don’t see anything in that quote worthy of Moore-ing other than Thoreau basically going “off-script.”
And that article about his skull being blown off? Gross. But let’s not pretend this is anything new: http://www.pi-news.org/wp/uploads/2010/08/JapSkullLifeMag2.jpg
Canadian Observer
The bloodlust on display on the streets of the American Empire is beyond disgusting.
This just proves there is no real “left” in the US, just two right wings.
Glenn Greenwald has it right, as usual:
So true.
srv
– They Live
Maybe we need some glasses that just show peoples’ wealth.
M. Bouffant
@Jeffro:
explain exactly what he means by “blunders”, “quagmires”, and perhaps most especially, “strategic blunders”
Everything George W. Bush did.
And in a certain sense, we can blame G.H.W. Bush for not deposing Saddam Hussein, but leaving him there for W(orst). to work out all his Oedipal issues on.
James E. Powell
If there is a reason for the constant links to and discussions of Sullivan’s remarks, I am not aware of it.
Some writers are worth reading simply because they are reliable sources for conventional wisdom. Sullivan is a source for conventional stupidity.
xephyr
Sullivan used to make at least a little sense, sometimes even a fair amount of sense, but for some time now he’s steadily been going off his nut. As always, it’s a pity when fools have a soapbox.
johnny walker
@TheYankeeApologist: He tends to give Moore awards to liberals for saying (at least relatively) reasonable things, such as what we see here. He gives them to conservatives for blatant nutcase stuff, birtherism, death panels, etc. Andrew Sullivan holds liberals to a different standard–fine. Make two awards then. The issue is the false equivalence.
—
I’m in the same place as Cole. Osama’s dead – great! But we’re going way beyond mere relief, happiness, etc. Scene outside the WH yesterday immediately made me think of a sports rally, and we quickly progressed from “oh man, what a relief, maybe this will bring closure” to
Greenwald has a thing up where he points to a Washington Times (surprise!) editor expressing her glee in anticipation of seeing the corpse photos. And frankly, it’s a little rich to try and frame finally catching one dude after a ten-year search as proof that we’re still awesome and etc. In the Greenwald post he points out Obama referring to bin Laden’s death as proof that we can still “do whatever we set our minds to” and equating it to something vaguely civil-rightsish, which is a comparison that I just can’t get behind.
I like what a Harvard philosophy professor told NPR:
And oddly enough, Rudy 9/11 of all people said something to the effect that he finds the jubilation odd, and pointed out that none of this is going to bring anyone back from the dead.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
@Canadian Observer:
Wuss.
Rusty +3
jeffreyw
Sully! Oh Sully!
gwangung
And the rest of the world gives him a pass, allowing him to rest on hist writing.
jrg
How about being accused of mounting a “fifth column”?
I swear, Sullivan is not capable of learning anything. The instant he starts to catch on, he gets distracted by a beard or a cat on a slide or something, then forgets what happened five minutes ago.
MonkeyBoy
@amphodale:
US official: Bin Laden skull blown apart
Thank dog for technology. I’m reading a book about Alexander the Great, and people in those days were always shipping bodyless heads around to prove death.
General Stuck
To hell with Greenwald’s bullshit. I don’t know why he just doesn’t renounce his US citizenship and sign up with Brazil, or whatever South American nirvana of civil rights he hangs his hat.
Canadian Observer
“Glenn Greenwald lives in Brazil! QED!”
Omnes Omnibus
Well Thoreau did build that crappy little house by the pond.
Loneoak
@Canadian Observer:
Please explain the relationship between these two things. You us to come out and punch some hillbillies in the face for waving flags and then there would be a ‘real left’?
kth
The Michael Moore awards assume that there was something wrong with Moore’s work, or that there is any reason to be inordinately embarrassed by association with him. There wasn’t, and there isn’t.
srv
@James E. Powell:
John is like a jilted, obsessed and angry ex-lover. We really need a Freud of the blogosphere.
johnny walker
@kth: Ehh, he gets pretty sloppy with the edits sometimes. Moore isn’t Breitbart, but he isn’t exactly down-the-line factual either. Seems to have been … more … of a problem in his older films.
Sarah Proud and Tall
Drugs are good. Abortion is bad. Gay Marriage is good. Deficits are bad. Killing terrorists is good. Nuance is bad.
Repeat.
Joe Beese
From the tone of his writing, I sincerely believe that Andrew Sullivan was having an O-gasm as he live-blogged last night. You could almost see his ejaculate splattering against the monitor.
Sully is like Strangelove’s arm – always twitching to heil Der Fuhrer.
moe99
“I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that”
— Martin Luther King Jr.
And Homer has a point as well. From the Odyssey, when Odysseus tells Eurycleia why there will be no celebration after he has killed his wife Penelope’s suitors:
“It is impious to rejoice at the sight of dead men. These men were destroyed bythe gods and their own wicked deeds, respecting no one on earth, noble or base, who mingled with them. So by their foolish indulgence they brought on their
shameful death.”
johnny walker
@Elia Isquire: Yikes. What’s the story on that skull pic? I’m not familiar with it.
sukabi
@Mike Kay (Team America): no one should… f^ck him with bin Laden’s dick.
Villago Delenda Est
No.
The first job of the President is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Says so, right in the Constitution.
Which is probably why it was overlooked.
Mike Kay (Team America)
I really don’t know why people annoy themselves by reading someone they find irritating. How is that rational?
I don’t listen to country music or watch Adam Sandler movies or read FDL because they’re annoying. Life is easier when you step over pot holes.
Joe Beese
“Wearing his flag pin, President Obama invoked the legacy of Bush-era initiatives aimed at “winning” the war, and perhaps most poignantly, drew our focus back to the events of 9/11 as the impetus for this decade-long struggle that has now at least partly been brought to fruition. Yet Obama was equally clear that this is not the end of the conflict and that “the cause of securing our country is not complete,” reminding us that we must “remain vigilant at home and abroad” since “there’s no doubt that al Qaeda will continue to pursue attacks against us.”
Make no mistake, this announcement signals a clear intention to vindicate the decisions of the past decade and continue on a similar course going forward. As if to affirm this historical eventuality, the media’s immediate focus on the spontaneous demonstrations of patriotic fervor that have sprung up with echoes of “USA, USA” brings us right back to those fateful September days in 2001. The tenor of these public celebratory gatherings, and the content of the President’s announcement, convey a strong sentiment that the last decade’s wars have been worth it, and likewise that the extraordinary security measures here at home have been equally successful.
On some level, the death of a single individual is essentially being heralded as a justification for the deaths of at least hundreds of thousands (a figure largely comprised of civilians) in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. It remedies all legal and moral defects attendant to the use of “enhanced interrogations” and “extraordinary renditions.” It clears the ledgers on the trillions of dollars spent to undertake these efforts for nearly ten years. It squelches dissent on Patriot Act policies and the Homeland Security apparatus. And, most appreciably, it retroactively validates the Bush Administration’s open-ended waging of global warfare.”
http://www.counterpunch.org/amster05022011.html
Elia Isquire
No one as far as I have discovered so far can source that MLK quote. Seems apocryphal.
Keith G
@Canadian Observer:
How? What are you citing as a proof? I may not totally disagree with your conclusion, but I fail to see how you get there from what you type?
That seems a bit priggy. Humans are tribal critters. This is a tribal victory of sorts after a run of spectacularly depressing news. To draw any grand conclusions about the American Empire from the mostly college age celebrants I saw last night may be a bit less than wise.
edited
Elia Isquire
@johnny walker: It’s from Life Magazine during WWII — a soldier in the Pacific theater sent his sweetheart back home a Japanese skull.
Joe Beese
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/05/02/bin_laden/index.html
Canadian Observer
Notice how Greenwald’s critics never address his substantive points, but instead engage in childish insults and red herrings while he buries them with pure logic.
It’s spectacular to watch.
Svensker
Fuck Sully. He’s struttin’ around all self-righteous and America Fuck Yea-ing over this. Back in the day, he was calling us 5th columnists. He has no standing to address this — he can go back to England and shut the fuck up.
Canadian Observer
But Joe, Glenn Greenwald LIVES IN BRAZIL!
Jeffro
@M. Bouffant: Oh, I know that…I just want Le Douche (and really, the whole of the dinner-bell Right) to admit that bin Laden got the best of their boy hero W and lured him into Iraq, where we promptly spent thousands of our troops’ lives and $1T on a cause that had nothing to do with 9/11.
Sadly, I think this is as close as we’re gonna get.
Bill Arnold
@moe99:
Or Proverbs 24:17 – Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth
Mike Kay (Team America)
@srv:
There’s something to that. Cole, baby, he’s just not that into you. Time to move on. It’s his loss. The sea is full of good looking blogs. Just get out and circulate, you’ll find kismet, again.
srv
@Canadian Observer: Hey, it takes a big man to talk your smack when you know Obama only snipes, bombs and double-taps brown folks.
Move out of your pasty whiteyville and then let’s hear your big talk.
Sully was at least man enough to move from a dying empire that could no longer shoulder the White Man’s Burden to one that could.
cbear
Andy quotes Ross Douthat:
Andy responds: Amen.
Andy in 2001:
Fucking douchebag.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@General Stuck: Same thing. It is all tied up in their “manliness” issues which are part and parcel of their sex hang ups.
Joe Beese
@srv:
So where does he go next?
Lolis
@Canadian Observer:
Well, Greenwald thought one of the worst things about Osama being killed is that it boosts President Obama’s re-election chances. That tells me a lot.
I do agree with John, this war porn is pretty disturbing. But, hey, it just shows once again that Americans are people who suck just as much as everyone else in the world. TMZ had a poll up today asking if Obama had sex with Michelle last night. There is something about war and death that makes a whole lot of people get sexually aroused.
MikeBoyScout
In the pursuit of fair and balanced commentary and coverage from a conservative perspective it is often true that intelligent analysis must give way to a meme at any given moment.
Some day John you may understand that to be a Very Serious Person requires quite a lot of insincere and poorly thought through posts for the greater good of something or other which is not at all explainable. When you do, you too can be a front pager for Tina Brown’s circle jerk salon.
Loneoak
@Elia Isquire:
Unfortunately, McArdle got it right that it is apocryphal.
However, she did not find the partially correct quote, which I think is ultimately more challenging and worthwhile.
Pg 53 of Strength to Love:
Doug Harlan J
Amen.
Omnes Omnibus
@Keith G: i have seen film from Romania after the killing of Ceausescu that give CO a stroke.
jrg
@Canadian Observer:
Give me a break. Greenwald commonly has to post multiple updates to his articles in order to clarify his positions when holes are noted in his arguments.
Joe Beese
@Canadian Observer:
Also popular are insinuating sneers about where he gets his money from.
As if his meticulous links to the record of Obama’s dismal record were fabricated evidence.
russell
People say this all the time, and it’s a load of crap.
The President takes an oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.
“Defending the nation’s people” belongs to the people, via the militia (then) and/or the standing armed forces (now), and to Congress, who pay the bills.
The President is the CoC, which is the executive function of the military. The President is not freaking Superman.
Mike Kay (Team America)
There’s nothing wrong in celebrating the end of Bin Laden. Geez, even Dr. Rachel Maddow ran out to the White House last night and celebrated.
I celebrated on this blog with many others when Broder finally kicked the bucket. I celebrated when traitor Bob Novak bought it. So did many others (even people on the far left celebrated). I can only imagine how we’ll celebrate when Cheney joins Bin Laden.
If your not into it fine. But to each there own.
Nothing to be gained by criticizing those who celebrate or those who don’t.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@xephyr: This is readily explained by his utter commitment to being “a conservative”. He’s willing to call out the hard right somewhat, but that doesn’t change the fact that he automatically moves away from something that might be liberal. Which at one time might have worked. But the conservatives in this party have proclaimed that sanity and reality are a liberal qualities. Which leaves him the schizophrenic mess of a blogger that he is.
Canadian Observer
@jrg
Evidence, please? Greenwald is always consistent.
Roger Moore
Missing tag: I read these idiots so you don’t have to.
tomvox1
Aw, Sully must’ve been high nonstop since the Royal Wedding. He actually thought Limbaugh was sincere in his “praise” of Obama. One toke over the line, Andy baby…
Joe Beese
@Lolis:
What Greenwald wrote:
That you would lie so shamelessly about Greenwald’s statement also says a lot.
General Stuck
I haven’t felt any kind of emotional joy at Bin Laden’s death, but I did feel a presence of long standing stress melt some away, and that now, personally, I can take a more anti war stand than before, especially with getting out of Afghan, and with the drone action. With some real hope some of this war shit can be greatly dialed back. If he had been killed somewhat soon after 9-11, I probly would feel some emo rejoice, but not now.
That said, I will, and I hope Obama also takes every advantage of OBL death on a political level with the wingnuts. It may be and look unseemly, but every single advantage to keeping those crazy motherfuckers out of office, especially the Oval Office, I am for. Long as it don’t break no laws.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
Greenwald is a fag, and not in a good way.
Hey, I just COMPLETELY beat down one of those nasty little malware security viruses without loading Malwarebytes to a thumb drive. I was creative and brilliant.
Still at +7. Considering +8, but know it would hurt.
johnny walker
@Elia Isquire: Oh, well no problem then. I thought it was a human skull, har har.
/drumfill
srv
@Joe Beese:
Beijing, dummy.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@Joe Beese:
Kept boy? Goat blower?
Fuck it – am going all in for +8. Competence at work in the morning is grossly overrated.
srv
@Yevgraf (fka Michael): rename a copy of the Malwarebytes binary (mbam.exe) to iexplore.exe
Viri can’t pre-empt Internet Exploder.
Loneoak
@Yevgraf (fka Michael):
I hope that’s the alcohol talking, because you should take shit elsewhere. In a hurry.
Studly Pantload, now with enhanced schmuckosity
@Joe Beese:
No. No, I couldn’t. By design, I’ll confess.
Joe Beese
@srv:
That was my first thought. They’re certainly going to be taking over the empire business.
But then doesn’t it become the Yellow Man’s Burden?
Suffern ACE
@Canadian Observer:
You know, whenever I read your posts, I’m thinking, ‘Yeah, we don’t have a left. Only two right wings, but so the fuck what?” I’m sure, per your earlier posts, that Osama standing up to the empire is appealing to you. I’m sure you got some Che tee-shirt stored away, too. He’s a hero to millions of little Che’s 30 years after his death, too. But so the fuck what does it mean to you.
Write me when you start making your own cocktails. Write me when you’ve come up with a way to defeat your own capitalists up north. Until then, bite me.
Loneoak
@Canadian Observer:
And I’m sure you are aware of all Internet traditions.
Martin
For those criticizing the public’s reaction to Bin Laden’s death, if you substitute ‘capture’ for ‘death’, do you think the public reaction would have been any different? You seem overly focused that the cause for the effect is ‘death’, and not ‘brought to justice’, in whatever form that happened to be.
Further, if your insistence would then be that ‘death’ was the only outcome of the action, then you’re ignoring the multiple sources that said that ‘capture’ was an option if made available, and why Obama would have taken this much riskier option over simply tomahawking, predatoring, AC-130ing the building and the going in to ID the remains. That was the ‘death’ option, and it was not taken.
johnny walker
@Lolis: Bullshit. The mention of re-election and domestic politics is one paragraph from a Greenwald-sized post. His supposed characterization of Obama’s re-election as ‘bad’ is something you made up.
He isn’t characterizing it as good or bad, but talking about how he thinks the political capital will be used.
Culture of Truth
yes you’re being silenced. [ eyeroll ]
jrg
@Canadian Observer:
OK.
In this particular example, Greenwald says that Obama has no desire to depart from the status quo. When Obama states otherwise in a speech, Greenwald updates with: “I’ve long ago ceased caring about what Obama says in individual, isolated speeches”.
Martin
@Canadian Observer:
Left of what? Canada? France? Britain?
Seems to me with no baseline, we can equally say there’s no real left and no real right. And all that presupposes you subscribe to this idiotically simplistic notion of one dimension to politics.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@johnny walker: So Rudy’s not running again…
Mike Kay (Team America)
@Suffern ACE:
Now that you bring it up, Che and Fidel, a couple of solid lefties, executed a whole lot of people, and without trials.
Tim, Interrupted
Before I slog thru commentst, Cole, I want to thank you for this post. This is the type of thing that keeps BJ interesting: Just when I’ve given up on you AGAIN as being a complete tool of the now Obama-led government elite, you post something like this, which calls into question your tool-ness and keeps me coming back.
Which of course makes me suspicious that I’m being played, but I’m not the first to surmise such a thing here, and won’t be the last.
I just want to know how many sock puppets you employ here. I think I’ve been attacked by one or two on more than one occasion…but there’s another thing that intrigues. :D
Calouste
@Canadian Observer:
I think you made a light mistake. You wanted to call yourself the Brazilian observer.
Tim, Interrupted
Oh, and thanks for the link to Thoreau, Cole.
I was not aware of this dude’s writing, and will be going back for more.
D-Chance.
there is something sick about someone who tries to shut down speech as mild and tepid as what Thoreau wrote…
They shut down the Qualified Offerings website???
/clicks link
No, it’s still there, Cole.
johnny walker
@jrg: Oh, a politician said something in a speech? I guess the matter’s settled then. Why didn’t you say so sooner?
Look, I’m not a Greenwald sycophant by any means. I like some of what he writes, other times I think he’s off base. In this particular case, what on earth is out of bounds about saying that the speech was nice, but what matters is the followthrough?
bkny
is there any angle to this obl story that obama can’t exploit. take that you super-patriot teatards — lol:
One of the soldiers selected to participate in the “counterterrorism group [that is] so specialized that no one can apply to join it” is Rubén Mejía, the son of Mexican immigrants.
http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2011/05/02/osama-bin-laden-seals-mexican-immigrant/
Calouste
Oops…
CBC forecasts a majority for Harper.
Welcome to the 51st state Redkitten et al.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Loneoak: Clearly, every single American who is of voting age is out there blood lusting. Some more than others, hence the two rights. Duh.
johnny walker
@Barb (formerly Gex): Well, he did also say that he wished he could’ve been the one to kill bin Laden. Mixed message for sure, but yeah it seemed a lot more like something you’d expect a human being to say rather than a politibot.
Suffern ACE
@Calouste: I guess there’s no real left up in Canada either. Only two right wings. Or so I’ve been observing.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@srv:
If you’ve not rebooted when the virus first shows up, even though mbam won’t run, if you right click on mbam in My Computer and unclick the box that says “protect my computer now”, it will actually run. Its weird and counterintuitive, but it works – I had a computer guy show me the trick.
What he usually does is carry a copy of malwarebytes on a thumb drive, and right-click loads from there.
dogwood
Ah, more Sullivan and Greenwald. They are really so different. Sullivan is more tolerable for me because his often juvenile romanticism about people he admires (Reagan, Thatcher, Obama), and causes he adopts (Green Revolution, Arab Spring, etc) reflect his positive impulses. And even if those impulses can seem overwrought, at least he’s human. Greenwald, on the other hand, is not for me. He’s an angry and often dishonest man. We know everything he disdains, but I have no idea if he actually cares about anything, or experiences any emotion other than hatred. Can’t read that stuff.
Joe Beese
@jrg:
In other words, “I judge Obama by his lengthy and consistent record – rather than his empty words.”
No wonder you guys hate him so much.
Keith G
@General Stuck:
I have. He was a fuck wad. I felt happy all day. Some folk make the world a better place when they leave it and I am not ashamed to be happy when they shove off.
I am also happy that it resets the table for Obama and gives him a chance to reestablish his messaging – which is a bit problematic since I have severe doubts about that part of his administration. Nonetheless, the ball is now very much in his court. I hope he can be successful with it.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@bkny:
Suck it, wingnuts….
As Cleavon would have said – ” ‘Scuse me, while I whip this out…”
Calouste
@Suffern ACE:
NDP, which sounds pretty leftish from the descriptions of BJ’s local Canucks erlier today, got 30% of the vote, almost wiping out the Bloq Quebecois and taking most seat from the Liberals.
Culture of Truth
I like Greenwald, but there’s only so much “help help I’m being repressed” I can take
Studly Pantload, now with enhanced schmuckosity
@Canadian Observer:
I actually subscribe to s0cialist ideals. Single payer!, yadda, yadda. And I was one of the people who allowed him- or herself to feel gladness at the news of the death to this egomaniacal leader of a super-violent cult. And I didn’t mind that some were motivated to celebrate publicly.
But, again, your efforts at building strawmen are just so dang cute! If I were in the same room as you, I’d probably want to pinch your cheek.
[Blast! Sent to moderation purgatory for using the s word!]
General Stuck
@Keith G:
I surely haven’t felt an ounce of sorrow at his passing, there has just been too much time and bad water under the bridge for me to rejoice much. I am relieved however, and that will do.
Watching Obama’s address last night, I think he is fully awares of the opportunity to set on it’s head, the entire Democats are weak of national defense meme, that has been a yoke around our collective necks since Vietnam.
Darlene, over at Protein Wisdom was whining how Obama kept saying “I” did this or that, and was giving Bush equal credit. Now that did give me an emo rush of pleasure.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Yevgraf (fka Michael): Really? If you want to insult him, insult him. If you want to use an anti-gay term to do so, own it. To continually equate FAG with something horrible is not fucking helpful, asshole.
Of course, I live in Minnesota, where kids are being bullied to suicide with that name so I might be touchy.
Asshole.
ETA: I can’t wait until the day that anti-gay terms need to be hinted at. If Obama were gay, he’d be called a faggot regularly and loudly.
Mike Kay (Team America)
@Keith G: yeah. I really don’t get this don’t be happy when someone you dislike dies. I guarantee you, everyone saying that today will be saying “fuck yeah” when Cheney’s demise is reported.
Corner Stone
@Culture of Truth: No you don’t, you lying little bitch.
Phoebe
@Loneoak: I like that quote. Thanks for that.
I agree with John’s post and am happy that someone else is creeped out by the glee. It’s a mirror image of them being glad about the twin towers, but without a photoshopped Bert on one of the signs. Yet. And yeah, I know they started it. That’s not the point. The point is it’s creepy. I can see getting all dancing-in-the-streets if the war was over — any one of them — but there’ll be none of that so screw it. This’ll go on and on and on.
Bob Loblaw
@Mike Kay (Team America):
You do realize that that’s genuinely fucked up, right? David Broder…Osama bin Laden…not really the same. In any way.
@General Stuck:
But it’s clear that the COIN policies in Afghanistan and the drone operations against the Taliban weren’t really operationally tied to anything to do with the bin Laden search. Which means they have they’re own reasons to continue existing independently. One would hope. The alternative is very cynical indeed. It’s something I would say, but I’m surprised it’s coming from you, Stuck.
Nice to see that nothing will shake this blog of its Sullivan/Greenwald fixation, by the way. I still don’t get that one. They’re blogger meth, I guess. Can’t kick that shit.
Lolis
@johnny walker:
You’re right. I took his comments in context with other things he has said privately.
“even though I know that by abstaining or supporting a third party, I’m going to be sacrificing some of my short term political interests; I’m going to be causing a few more Republicans to be elected than otherwise might be elected; on balance, I’m willing to sacrifice my short term interests in order to do something to subvert the stranglehold that these two parties have on the political process because electing more Democrats, even though it’s a little less scary, accomplishes nothing good.”
http://blog.reidreport.com/2011/04/re-rise-of-the-naderites-glenn-greenwalds-third-party-dreamin/
He has the right to his beliefs, I am just saying it is delusional to think we will be helping this country by refusing to vote for Democrats.
No one of Importance
@Barb (formerly Gex):
Cosigned.
Greenwald appears to be a fuckwit, and he’s gay. But he’s not a fuckwit *because* he’s gay, any more than Andrew Sullivan is.
General Stuck
@Omnes Omnibus:
I saw that too, like soon after they were turned into jelly with bullets. But did you catch the earlier video, where he and is equally evil wife were being interrogated before being executed. There was no sound, but you could tell that Ceausescu was pleading for mercy, but his wife just sat therem crocheting a sweater of something, seeming to just bide her last minutes, knowing they were her last minutes.
Keith G
@Culture of Truth: The best leaders are those who use their wit and a smile more than an aura of self-righteousness. Like a young pitcher, Greenwald has power to spare, but he needs to work on his touch and his timing.
Or, maybe he is more of a catcher.
sneezy
@Canadian Observer:
There isn’t a single sentence in what you quoted that is actually, unequivocally true. It’s all hyperbole.
jrg
@Joe Beese: You do realize you’re posting on a thread about a successful assassination of OBL by Obama, right?
I’ve got better things to do than present you with a list of Obama’s accomplishments. You would ignore them if I did, so I won’t bother.
@johnny walker:
The crux of GG’s argument was that Obama’s negotiating tactics were designed to maintain a center-right status quo… So what’s wrong with saying “the speech was nice, but what matters is the followthrough” is the fact that it contradicts the premise of GG’s original post.
Culture of Truth
@Corner Stone
I guess calling me a heretic would have been too suffused with irony.
Barb (formerly Gex)
Wow. Today, the war against gays in Minnesota advanced. How nice to see the wanton use of fag as an insult in these here comments as well. I fucking hate people. There just isn’t anywhere I can go to avoid this shit. Absolutely nowhere.
Fuck.
General Stuck
@Bob Loblaw:
The ground war in Afghan is not directly tied to OBL, but the reason at least I was still willing to support some presence there after the ground war ends, was the likelyhood OBL would once again set up shop for training terrorists. Now that is not possible. And whatever you want to say the guy not being directly involved with planning these ops, he was THE master organizer and chief fundraiser for AQ, not to mention an icon of inspiration. I don’t think anyone can replace him in those ways. So I can be more for “completely” disengaging militarily from Afghan, instead of just pulling back the ground war.
As far as the drone attacks go, I meant those for everywhere, but especially Pak, because without OBL, I don’t think the Taliban on either side of the border is going to be much of a threat outside that region. And whatever attacks from drones on Pak soil will be hard to justify fighting AQ and international terrorism. Though we do have interests there, mostly surrounding the fucking nukes and protecting them from crazies getting their paws on them. It will be difficult to keep doing drone attacks with OBL gone, imo.
eemom
Ah. Thank God things are getting back to normal. John is re-fixating on Sully, Observerator From The North is down on his knees with Greenwald’s dick in his mouth, and Joe Beeeest is back bleating them same old cosmic Obama baaaaaahd blues again.
Osama’s gone, and all is right with the world.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@Keith G:
Careful – you’ll set off a round of pearl-clutching vapors among the firebaggots.
They’re infinitely more sensitive and concerned than you, you know…
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Yevgraf (fka Michael): So it’s bad to be a fag. Got it. Thanks for clarifying.
bago
@EJ: Balko helped to get an innocent man off of death row. Respect.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Yevgraf (fka Michael): Shut up, FAG.
Judas Escargot
It’s a Phase Shift.
Enjoy it. They only last a few days. And you’ll be glad you were there when it happened.
Now, back to your irregularly scheduled random madness…
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@eemom:
Leave Glenn alone! {sob}
eemom
@Keith G:
no. Actually what he is is more of a whiny ass toddler throwing a tantrum because mommy won’t let him stay up and watch the game.
cat48
According to Politifact, the president has kept 123 of his campaign promises. Osama was one of them. Suck on that haters!
Martin
@Phoebe: I think it depends a lot on your perspective. I’m not happy about OBL being dead. I am happy that he’s not walking around free, however. Capture would have been preferable, but you get what your offered.
But for a lot of people, and I have a coworker who is 23 that underscored this, OBL is like some kind of Hitler. OBL has been a threat their whole lives, and more importantly, OBL has been making the US do stupid shit their whole lives, from invading random countries to making everyone take off their shoes. No, OBL may not have presented an existential threat to them, but he sure affected their lives on a day-to-day basis in more subtle ways. They’ve heard about the greatness of America, but don’t feel like they’ve witnessed it because of OBL.
And for others, some may have been able to close the book on 9/11 before now, but not others. Catharsis comes to each of us differently. I don’t fault them for needing this.
Mike Kay (Team America)
people don’t have the honesty to admit it, but most of the butthurt over bin laden’s death is over the political benefit President Obama has gained.
people on the left who oppose the president act no differently than those on Fixxed News.
Barb (formerly Gex)
Ah, pitcher/catcher jokes now. See? Very funny because we’re talking about a FAGGOT. Pure comedy gold!
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@Barb (formerly Gex):
*sigh*
Gay guys are great. Fags are annoying and deserving of scorn, derision and disdain, and the derogatory aspects of the term aren’t necessarily derivative of the preference. Greenwald is in the “fag” category.
I’d explain, but you’re not a guy from real man land.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@Martin:
On a more serious note unrelated to the whole boozy pitcher/catcher/gay/faggot kerfluffle I seem to have found myself embroiled in, this describes my daughter. She called last night around midnight, ecstatic over the news.
She never does that. She was a fifth grader when 9/11 went down, and I hadn’t realized the extent to which this affected her and her sisters.
lol
@Joe Beese:
Don’t need to insinuate. FDL’s PAC did nothing but send money to him and other bloggers and he repeatedly lied that he didn’t. Raked in hundreds of thousands of dollars from the firebagger marks and they can’t point to a single fucking thing the PAC actually did.
But it’s pretty awesome that someone who doesn’t even live here is magnanimous enough to sacrifice his own “short term interests” so that he can enable the Republican party for some vaguely defined long term improvement.
Bob Loblaw
@Mike Kay (Team America):
This is sadly true. Though hardly unprecedented.
soonergrunt
@Canadian Observer: shoot yourself. Just put yourself out of your misery so that you don’t have to look at us. There’s something like 12 of us for every one of you. You can’t escape us any other way.
Really, just set yourself on fire, and take that escape. Just pull your car into the garage, leave the engine running, and close the garage doors, close your eyes and breathe deep and slow.
srv
I guess especially if you’re Canadian and/or like Greenwald.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@lol:
Criticism of the finances, motivation and the singular lack of qualifications or accomplishments of the Kept Boy from Brazil equates to gaybashing, didn’t you get the memo?
Tim, Interrupted
@soonergrunt:
Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with you? What kind of sick fuck writes this?
Corner Stone
@Culture of Truth: Heretic.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I just have a question: Why can’t I enjoy the fact that bin Laden is dead, and understand that this isn’t going to end a lot because 1) bin Laden wasn’t the entirety if al Qaeda any more, and 2) the loudest people in this country are the kinds of people who think that if they threaten everyone else, they will be safe?
Actually, I know the answer: I can, but Sully and a lot of others cannot handle a world that complex.
moe99
@Loneoak:
Thanks for the correction. Will note it elsewhere.
Shadow's Mom
I have to say, I am not ‘glad’ that Bin Laden is dead. I don’t see any killing as a source for rejoicing. Having said that, I do see that this killing was justified. Bin Laden was an evil man responsible for thousands of deaths around the world. Additionally, NY Times reported that the objective was to capture or kill. Bin Laden chose a firefight and death over surrender.
So, anyway, that’s my 2 cents
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
Hey, lets play a fun game – “Cases that Glenn Greenwald Won During His Illustrious 10 Year Solo Legal Career”.
Or how about “Brilliant Defenses that Glenn Greenwald Pulled Out of His Ass for White Supremacist Matthew Hale”? That would be a fun game, too.
Elia Isquire
@Yevgraf (fka Michael): Just link everyone to the Louis CK bit.
jrg
@Tim, Interrupted:
“What kind of sick fuck writes this”? I don’t know, maybe someone responding to a post that starts: “The bloodlust on display on the streets of the American Empire is beyond disgusting.”
Do you think that original post was designed to start a meaningful conversation?
Mandramas
@Shadow’s Mom: It says a lot about the sadistic mindset that american society have, the pride that Obama (or any american president, by the way) had when he announced that he, personally, had ordered to capture or kill OBL.
But it is hardly a news. USA was always a country where murder is glorified.
Mnemosyne
@johnny walker:
Saying that Obama will be “exploiting” the killing of Bin Laden to get re-elected is not a neutral statement.
Jebediah
@Omnes Omnibus:
Did you also know that in that crappy little house, he had only poor people’s regular white salt? And that it didn’t matter what kind of salt he had, because cooking wasn’t invented until the 1970’s?
S’true.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
More fun games that could be played about Glenn Greenwald:
“Executive Decisions That Glenn Greenwald has Participated In”
“Personal Responsibilities and Duties that Glenn Greenwald Owes to Real Life Named People”
“Public Policies that Glenn Greenwald Made as A Public Official”
“Offices for Which Glenn Greenwald Has Stood for Election To”
MattR
I know it is sacrilege to the King but if we are really worried about Osama’s grave site becoming a shrine we should have buried him at Graceland.
Lysana
@Yevgraf (fka Michael):
So we’re at the gay equivalent of “good blacks” and “niggers.” Got it.
@bkny:
Sorry, that story’s crap. Nobody presents a flag in uniform for being along on a black ops run. And nobody in a black ops group gets their name leaked like that.
soonergrunt
Seriously, it’s like FDL and the nutcase cohort at GOS decided to come to Balloon-Juice en mass in the last day or so.
It’s like stupid on steroids coming in a coordinated wave from multiple directions at once. Every one of these motherfuckers has dried paste on on their fingers and lips.
Sly
@jrg:
Unless the topic of the conversation is something along the lines of “One of the many reasons why I am a better person than you,” I’d say that the answer to that question is a definite no.
We should just send a big bouquet of flowers to Greenwald with a nice card that states, “Dear Glenn: Just because you are so much better than everyone else in this fetid pile of excrement known as the human race. We wish we could be perfect beings like you or Buddha or Jesus or Yoda, but we’re too weak. We’re simply jealous of your tremendous intellectual might, and knowing that someone like you exists in the world leaves us in a perpetual state of shame that forces us to revel in our own vulgarity. For that, we are eternally sorry. Please forgive us, so we can get into Heaven. Which we totally don’t deserve, but we feel confident is asking because you’re the awesome Demigod of Truth and Justice. Signed, Everyone who is not you.”
You can send one to Chris Hedges, too, and that would likely result in a 50% drop in the Sanctimonious, Self-Aggrandizing Bullshit Index. Only temporarily, sure, but I think even that is worth it.
PeakVT
We need a Canadian elections thread.
Martin
@Yevgraf (fka Michael):
Honestly, the generation of people just now in high school, voting, in college – basically Obama’s base outside of minority groups grew up with OBL always fucking something up. He was always there calling for the destruction of America, and we were always powerless to stop him. We may have known that OBL was somewhat full of shit, 9/11 proved that well, he wasn’t totally full of shit. But the kids 10 years ago, they didn’t know. They didn’t have a context to put 9/11 in. To them it really was Pearl Harbor, and there was this recognizable guy that most seriously wanted to see them dead. OBL was the real-life boogie man for an entire generation, and yeah, they’re really fucking happy to have that nightmare behind them. He may not have seemed like a supervillain to us, but he sure as hell did to a lot of 16-25 year-olds.
hamletta
@Yevgraf (fka Michael): I was about that age when Nixon was re-elected.
But seriously, that’s about the age when you become aware of the larger world. Hitting that age when 9/11 went down…I can understand why you’d want to sing “Ding, Dong, the Witch Is Dead.”
Gives me a little more empathy toward the college students whose revelry I found somewhat distasteful.
O.G.
Here is an interesting photo of President Obama and his team in the Situation Room watching the mission against Osama bin Laden unfold. Take a moment and look at the key players facial expressions and body language.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/5680724572/
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: I hope you don’t mind but I told a couple of guys a few threads down that the should call you if they get arrested after some stripper and booze fueled debauchery. I don’t need that call in the middle of the night.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Mandramas: I love these kinds of statements. Because from what I’ve seen, there isn’t a single country that doesn’t kill when they feel they are justified. Yes, the US still have the death penalty, which I am not fond of. But I’m just imagining “Hitler is dead, now everyone bow your heads in humility.” An evil man was removed from the world. I celebrated by watching TV.
ETA: That whole “American Empire” thing also bothers me. When we do take over countries, we lease land from them to put our bases in. And we supply our troops to protect those countries. And we build a massive freakin’ Navy to protect shipping to our country. We probably are an empire, but we sure do it in a fucked up manner.
hamletta
@MattR: Why do you think they got all those pictures and DNA samples?
So OBL wouldn’t turn up at a Burger King with Elvis!
Keith G
@Yevgraf (fka Michael): To belabor the point, as a homo (card carrying), I do find having outsiders calling one of us a fag a bit disconcerting. Its illogical, but there it is.
And I am fully aware of the shots I took at Greenwald above, but he can get a bit carried away and full of himself in a way that is a bit petulant so I used word play to add a bit to my point, much to Barb’s dismay.
+10?
But, that was a nice bit about your daughter. It’s touching that she was moved to call you.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@Omnes Omnibus:
Strippers, booze and eemom? Am totally down for that action.
Of course, +9 gave way to boozy gobbling of salted cucumbers and milk guzzling to restore electrolytes and ward off the morning hurts, but I could be convinced to have another go at it…
Martin
@Mandramas:
You think it’s sadistic that we’re proud that Obama ordered the capture of OBL? It’s right there in your statement. You think we should instead be proud if Obama had said ‘Eh, leave him be.’
Seriously, that’s your argument – that it was immoral for Obama to have ordered the capture of OBL.
Odie Hugh Manatee
I’m not overjoyed or celebrating the death of Osama but I do know that this planet is better for his demise. That and he’s finally become useful.
As fish food.
@Joe Beese:
So you’re another one of those Obama = Hitler! types, eh? Figures. Go back to the GoS, they need you more than ever. I hear that ratfuckers thrive in that shithole.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jebediah: He had salt? Luxury! I used to have to sprinkle gravel over my food for flavor.
Stillwater
@Martin: Seriously, that’s your argument – that it was immoral for Obama to have ordered the capture of OBL.
Well, capturing is still pretty bullish, if you think about it. Aggressive, unilateral, kinda mean.
I think Obama ought to have limited it to the ‘invite over for lunch’ directive he uses so frequently to capture rising conservative stars.
Martin
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
Had we dropped a tomahawk on the house, I could see the argument that we chose to ‘kill because we felt it was justified’. But we didn’t even do that much. We deliberately put soldiers on the ground in a dangerous situation. The only reason to do that was to provide the opportunity to capture OBL. Every country definitely captures when they feel it’s justified – even the Swiss. And if they come under fire while attempting to capture, every country will kill in self-defense – even the Swiss.
Beese and Canadian and them are taking a position that is not shared by any nation on earth – not even at the fucking Vatican.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandramas: I think that you are going just a little bit over the top with this. Un peu trop, n’est-ce pas?
soonergrunt
@Stillwater: Yeah. Why couldn’t we have had another beer summit?
@Martin:
And they’re doing it because they’re assholes.
toschek
I just hope they find Al-Zwahiri and stub that POS out soon too.
CT
@Canadian Observer:
I know NPR is some marginal outlet that GG can’t be expected to keep track of, but I listened to them a big chunk of today, and the overwhelming message of nearly everyone they talked to, from 911 family members, to current military to woman-on-the-street interviews was “I’m happy he’s dead, but..” with all manner of qualifications about how this affects Afghanistan going forward, whether the death of anyone, even Bin Laden, should be celebrated, lamenting the failure to capture him alive for a trial, etc.
Not a lot of heretic-bashing to be found. Now maybe NPR found the only non-bloodthirsty folks in the country, but I favor the hypothesis that GG made up his mind from seeing a few yahoos outside the White House last night and didn’t trouble himself to look for any evidence to the contrary.
Omnes Omnibus
@soonergrunt: Well, as a Muslim with kidney problems, I don’t know that OBL drank beer.
Mandramas
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Yes, in a sense you are right. But there are countries and cultures and generations that are tired of bloodshed and wants pace. Maybe it is just because USA has never experienced a war in their own territory in a century or so, that are blinded to the reality of violence and death. In some countries, you can’t really imagine that a president openly admit that he ordered an assassination mission, or that could become a political advantage.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandramas: Which countries are those?
Mandramas
@Omnes Omnibus: Yep, but it is a feeling that can’t handled in other way. A day is passed, I think that the a new POV can be discussed. Quelqu’un doit dire que le roi est nu.
Keith G
@Omnes Omnibus: O’Doul’s?
Mandramas
@Martin: No. I added the word capture just to lower the tone of the argument. But I feel that, if they had capture OBL alive, this could have become a completely different situation.
LosGatosCA
I posted it before, I’m posting it now, and I’ll post it as many times as necessary, Sullivan’s an ass. Move on.
Bin Ladin choose the method in which justice was delivered to him and it’s perfectly human to be glad justice was delivered. Don’t over interpret relief, a sense of justice, fir some closure as bloodlust.
Almost everyday I think of the people who jumped off the flaming WTC towers and frankly I’m not feeling too guilty about accepting this result without remorse.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mandramas: I ask this in all seriousness and I mean no disrespect. Have you been to the United States and spent any time here? I ask because at times your comments seem almost like the mirror image of wingnuts whose vision of Europe involves healthcare rationing, economic stagnation, and women who don’t shave.
soonergrunt
@Omnes Omnibus: You think they couldn’t have found a Fresca in the White House commissary? Work with me here.
Omnes Omnibus
@soonergrunt: You said beer summit. I rest my case.
Martin
@Mandramas: Capture should have been there because it’s been stated repeatedly that capture was part of the order.
And you’re wrong that the response would have been different. It wouldn’t have been. The questions would have been though – what do we do with him? Where does he go? How does he stand trial? Does he face a death penalty? etc. And they’d be good questions, but that’s not the outcome that OBL allowed for us.
I think had he been captured, the celebrating would have been vastly more ugly – particularly from the right. The calls for OBLs immediately execution would have come fast and thick.
Mandramas
@Omnes Omnibus: That was a rhetorical question? Mine, Argentina, for an start. Most of Sudamerica, maybe excepting Colombia and Venezuela. Most of lesser Euro countries, that don’t have a heavy military industry or pretensions of be a power or a secessionist terrorist movement.Probably more other countries, but I’m not in position of state it.
Origuy
@Mandramas: Argentina, the country that sent its navy to capture a pile of rocks 250 miles away, inhabited by a half million sheep and 3000 people who wanted to stay British?
Mandramas
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, I had been there working, like four months. It is not a lot of time, I know. I don’t think my POV is like you feel, but in fact I loved a lot of american culture, their literature, their convoluted history, their greatest genius. I only feel distrust for some of the actual politics, and the feeling that they are biasing like never in their history to the hard, far right.
Mandramas
@Origuy: We had performed a lot of more cruelty acts, I’m afraid.
pattonbt
@Martin: Don’t forget to add no longer being allowed to masturbate on airplanes to the list.
Yutsano
@Mandramas: Well you did tell the IMF to eat a bag of salted dicks, so I have to give you guys credit for that. And you actually got around to addressing income inequality in a meaningful way. I guess the next step is a universal health care system. Unless I missed something…
Mnemosyne
@O.G.:
Pete Souza is a genius. I find that expression on the president’s face to be endlessly fascinating — you can practically see him reviewing every decision he made up to this point to figure out if he fucked up now that zero hour has arrived.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: I personally lurve the image of Hillary in that shot. She is watching intently and seriously, along with the rest of the men in that room. To me that’s a powerful feminist image right there.
Brachiator
@Loneoak:
The problem here is that what you offer here is no response at all, and it seems to suggest that the world should simply ignore, or passively accept, the destruction wrought upon the world by people like bin Laden.
Or is it that we should just issue the bin Ladens of the world a summons to appear, and if they refuse, and a foreign government offers them sanctuary, well at least we tried?
But I agree with an implication of your thoughts here. I think that we should either abolish the military or establish a period of compulsory service, with very few exemptions. Then we would share the burden more equally, and there would be fewer little people for us to look down on.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Yevgraf (fka Michael): Fuck off.
Barb (formerly Gex)
Remember when we were all feeling sympathy for Barack for having to endure codes? Well, we can’t extend that to anyone else. No seriously.
It irritates me no end that straight men get to first use these words to hurt and ostracize. Then, when we still haven’t even made it to “separate but equal”, we’re supposed to shut the fuck up about how those words are hateful.
Got it.
It might be helpful to consider that a gay person hears hundreds, if not thousands of references to how much they are hated by a significant portion of the country every day. There have been an alarming number of fires set at gay guys homes while they are sleeping in recent weeks.
But the worst outrage of it all would be to ask a straight person to not use those words if they don’t mean them that way. They don’t have to answer for their group like we do.
ETA: Or more likely you have a gay friend who totally doesn’t mind you using that word, and he speaks for all of us.
Jebediah
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well well well look who grew up all fancy, sensing flavor! We could only afford one tastebud, and it was reserved for company.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
and with more sullivan, our long national nightmare continues.
Uloborus
Since Beese is back here, I’ll just repost this. Hey, Beese? Your whole ‘Obama has murdered more in a year than Bin Laden ever meme? Not so much. You may now continue to live in your fantasy land of a narrative that is based on made up facts all of which prove each other.
And Greenwald is not disliked because he lives in Brazil. He is disliked because his arguments are based on two things. A) Somehow he claims to know the deep inner thoughts of people in power and they’re always pure evil. B) He lies, usually with half-truths, rumor, and misrepresentation. He leaves out things that as a constitutional lawyer he is supposed to know, like the court decision that the American citizen he’s so up in arms about being ‘assassinated’ has deliberately forfeited his right to trial. Or any discussion of the case law that does and has allowed that. That’s the one that sticks in my mind.
Anyway, other complaints about Greenwald are merely nuances to those complaints, pointing out the added hypocricies on top of his dishonesty.
Mandramas
@Yutsano: Well, technically there are public hospitals that everyone can access freely, and if you’re working, there are is tax that went direct to buy you health care, at a fixed price. You can choose your health care provider. The systems, of course, have a lot of issues. Actually there are a law in the Congress regulating the health care providers.
Lit3Bolt
@Sly:
This.
@Uloborus:
This.
People on the left need to realize that GG is just as much of a huckster with a book to sell as Thomas Friedman. There is no credit to go around, but plenty of blame.
I’m tired of the left-leaning blogs with their whiny “In the US Supreme Empire murder is glorified” moral scolding and finger wagging. It’s Ivory Tower syndrome of the worst sort.
Lit3Bolt
@ John Cole
I demand that “Hush, you! I’m on a bloodlust high!” gets its own tag.
BTD
Let me again register my unqualified support for all Sully bashing. There will never be enough of it.
Phoebe
@Martin:
I can understand. That makes sense. I think I just take it for granted that this is not going to make extremists stop or the wars end, and so it just looks like bloodlust to me, but it’s not. They think it’s going to end. I understand THAT kind of glee and wish I could share it.
RobNYNY1957
Sullivan first came to my attention about 1986 when he wrote an extremely homophobic article for The New Republic about the imagery of gay men in advertising. Images of gay men, he complained, were replacing businessmen and fathers. Some of the print ads were in black and white, just like Nazi propaganda. Others were in color, just like Nazi propaganda. I’m not making this up. I’ve despised him ever since, and all the more for being a homophobic closet case.
Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods
@srv: When you see anyone wearing these, blast ’em. Not quite the same as the cool shades in They Live, but the outcome’s the same…
sparky
i always find it fascinating when the commentariat goes off the rails. somehow this thread ended up bashing Greenwald rather than even discussing your post. it’s as if a tribe has to celebrate everything in terms of its chief, or something.
for myself, i say thank you, John.
Daddy Love
@Nemo_N:
“There is no justice here.” Some degree of justice, perhaps?.
Nope. None. “What is justice?” one might ask. Tough call. But here’s what it’s not: the achievement of a military objective, which is what the capture or death of Osama bin Laden was.
And here are some ideas of justice that are the ones one might actually think would pervade the American conception thereof:
But, you know, maybe not so much. I think what you have in mind is called “poetic justice” which is really not the same thing as “justice.”