WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange rails against Facebook, says it’s a spy tool for US government:
“Here we have the world’s most comprehensive database about people, their relationships, their names, their addresses, their locations, their communications with each other and their relatives, all sitting within the United States, all accessible to US Intelligence,” he said. “Facebook, Google, Yahoo, all these major U.S. organizations have built-in infaces for US intelligence.
“Everyone should understand that when they add their friends to Facebook they are doing free work for the United States intelligence agencies,” he added.
CIA’s ‘Facebook’ Program Dramatically Cut Agency’s Costs:
You figure it out.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Even the paranoid are sometimes wrong.
OT: I thought this AP story was a rather good piece on the entire search for bin Laden. It also talks about how the intelligence came about.
Earl Butz
I don’t know if the supposed quote from Mr. Assange is a parody or not. What I do know is that a friend of mine who works for an Agency Not To Be Named was ordered, along with all her co-workers, to delete their Facebook profiles.
You do the math.
PeakVT
The ONN is getting to be disturbingly slick.
WereBear
One thing that will keep Facebook from taking over the world is the dizzying way it keeps morphing into new ways of doing things; I loathe it and only keep it up because my fans demand it.
But yeah, for keeping up with one’s social network, it has no peer.
Loneoak
If the CIA is interested in my opinions about the recent Douthat column or wants to know that my dog has an upset tummy, more power to them.
Muley Graves
sup
Comrade Javamanphil
@Earl Butz:
The Agency that Shall Not Be Named has concluded that Zuckerberg is a corporate ass who would sell his mother for a buck?
Dave
The real question here is…how would the CIA do at “Mafia Wars”?
ppcli
Dear CIA: My favorite band is La Chicane, and all my friends are nerds. Except for the ones who are actually my wife’s friends, ’cause they are generally pretty cool. But cool in a very non-explodey way if you know what I mean. Thanks for listening.
ppcli
Omnes Omnibus
@Loneoak: If they want to know that they would just activate the transmitter in your molar.*
(* What? You thought you really needed that root canal? How naive are you?)
El Cid
When I first read that Onion story, I actually wondered how long it would take before some media figure read the same and did a story on that.
cathyx
I should be surprised by the reaction to this by many of you that you don’t care because you have nothing to hide, but I’m not. I guess you don’t care if the police want to search your homes for whatever they want because you have nothing to hide there either.
mk3872
Glennwald told me Assange is a hero and since neither Glennwald nor Assange can ever be wrong, I must assume that Assange’s statement is 100% spot-on.
burnspbesq
Why are we still talking about Julian Assange?
burnspbesq
@cathyx:
It’s awfully early in the morning for false equivalence.
Loneoak
@cathyx:
I have plenty to hide, therefore I don’t put it on Facebook, which is a mostly-public profile of my person that could be hacked by any number of organizations or people whom may wish me harm. Shouldn’t our default assumption regarding information-gathering agencies be ‘if you don’t want them to know, don’t wave it around on Facebook’?
If I may make an analogy, the 4th Amendment doesn’t protect the 3 kilos of coke in my back seat, but it does protect them in my trunk.
cathyx
@burnspbesq: How is that a false equivalency? Unauthorized searches are unauthorized searches. Would you friend the CIA?
Omnes Omnibus
@cathyx: If I put something on FaceBook, I do so with the assumption that the whole world is likely to be able to see it. I put it there for public, or at least semi-public, consumption. I have made a choice regarding my own privacy. Allowing the police to search home without a warrant is a completely different thing. I should be surprised that you cannot see that, but I am not.
eemom
@burnspbesq:
because we stopped talking about Bradley Manning. One of them must be talked about at all times or else Greenwald haz a sad. : (
BobS
The United States spends tens of billions of dollars a year on on multiple intelligence gathering agencies, including the NSA. It’s naive to think they aren’t mining the internet.
Woodrowfan
CIA smee-eye-ayy. Every police agency, intelligence agency, newspaper, private investigator, possible employer, nosy parent, significant other, former boy/girlfriend, possible future boy/girlfriend, conman, loan agency or would-be stalker in the world knows that, if you’re investigating someone, the first place to go is Facebook! The CIA has better things to do than look at the photos of your cat..
Omnes Omnibus
@Woodrowfan: I don’t have a cat. So there.
Uloborus
There’s a good argument to be made that Wikileaks is performing a deeply necessary service that conventional journalists have abandoned.
However, it’s doing it because Assange’s stated goal is to be the world’s biggest internet troll and piss off entire countries. Have you listened to this guy talk? He’s M-C with enough extra OCD to actually do something about his juvenile ‘I’m going to stick it to The Man!’ philosophy.
So no, I’m not surprised if he trots out some freaky piece of bullshit. He ain’t no sage or moral crusader, he’s a guy who posts tons of government information on the internet. If you think that’s an awesome thing to do, sure.
kindness
OK, I believe the CIA or whomever can look at all my electronic communication when ever they want. I figure they could do that before bush43’s Patriot Act.
I make sure to do all my anti-government plotting with carrier pigeons.
13th Generation
@cathyx:
You are absolutely correct. I dumped FB a long time ago because of privacy issues. The juiceboxers around here really make me wonder sometimes.
jenniebee
For some real fun, make a cell phone call in the mall parking lot more commonly known as the DC megalopolis and see how many squares on your terrorist phrases bingo card you can use before you hear the line click.
Mnemosyne
@cathyx:
If you write a letter to the editor that the paper publishes, should the CIA be banned from reading it? Facebook is a public forum, not a private one like your home or your e-mail.
If you decide to make information public, it’s public to everybody, not just the ones that you want to read it.
Yoodow
I am not sure if you remember the recent security incident involving HBGAry, the Chamber of Commerce and others, where HBGary was bragging about that they were able to identify the leadership of Anonymous by correlating data of various “social networking sites”. Anonymus responded by destroying not only HBGary’s website, but also the company’s reputation as a security contractor to the government.
The fallout of the incident was that numerous covert efforts of datamining social networks and also using them as a platform for disseminating disinformation came to light.
These so called social networking sites apart from being a colossal waste of time, provide an excellent platform to government and business agencies to gather and disseminate information very effectively.
WereBear
This is my operating assumption; this is all stuff that five minutes with my mother or husband would bring to light, anyway.
Omnes Omnibus
@13th Generation: No one is disputing that FB can have serious privacy issues. I think it is reasonable to avoid it on that ground. On the other hand, it is basically a public forum. So, of course, is a blog. If you don’t want information about yourself in the public sphere, don’t put it there. Using FB, blogging, and commenting on blogs are all voluntary activities. No one makes people do it. Taking part in it involves a conscious choice to surrender a portion of your privacy.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq:
Why did people here ever insist on talking about Assange? He’s as irrelevant now as he was then, but some were desperate to make him the story.
John S.
People still believe in the concept of privacy? What a novel thought. I gave up on the pretense that such a thing existed anymore on September 12, 2001. I’m not joining in the chorus of “if you’ve done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear”, I just don’t see how we get the privacy horse back in the barn. My only hope for privacy is that one person in the midst of 300 million Americans can sufficiently hide amongst the herd if one stays away from the outer fringe and the watchful gaze of the hungry lions.
Muley Graves
It’s not just the United States.
Corner Stone
@kindness:
Just don’t use couriers. Those guys are poison.
BobS
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s essentially what Assange said about Facebook.
However, most reasonable people would assume their searching Google or shopping at Amazon are more private activities, but which as credible organizations like Privacy International and EFF have warned, may not be.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: I was thinking of passengers.
Sly
Even if the CIA had access to facebook’s databases, that wouldn’t worry me, and would have no bearing on whether or not I wanted a facebook account.
No, the reason I don’t want a facebook account is because I’d rather not have a busybody from the local school board with an ax to grind see that my cousin Freddie wants my help for a heroin deal in mafia wars. That person has far more power to fuck up my life than Leon Panetta.
burnspbesq
@13th Generation:
When I need advice from you about how to protect my privacy, you sanctimonious ass, I’ll be sure to ask for it.
Mnemosyne
@BobS:
Given that even places like Balloon-Juice deliver ads to me for things I’ve shopped for elsewhere, I have absolutely no illusions that I have any privacy online. Do people think it’s a coincidence that I’m getting ads for yarn stores on political websites?
Tim in SF
Instead of linking to an Onion video, you should have linked to reports documenting how law enforcement agencies use social networking sites to gather information in investigations. Assange may be hypocritical in your view, but in the quote above he is absolutely correct in his description of Facebook.
Perhaps you could have done a little more research before posting yet another tired slam on Assange.
burnspbesq
@cathyx:
Do the words “reasonable expectation of privacy” ring any bells, or are you completely ignorant of the Fourth Amendment case law?
cyntax
@Loneoak:
If I may paraphrase Rick James, that’s a hell of an analogy.
gwangung
@John S.:
Well, that’s naive. You post on the internet and you’re giving bits of your life away to strangers. How much depends on how good the strangers are in piecing information puzzles together.
danimal
If I can’t freely talk about it in front of my boss, I won’t post it on Facebook. Pretty simple rule, saves a lot of grief.
RP
Using Facebook or other social networking sites is optional. No one is forcing any of us to use those sites (or post on this blog), and if you don’t want to put your personal information or opinions out on the web, you don’t have to. But once you decide to participate, I don’t think it’s reasonable to have an expectation of complete privacy. OTOH, living somewhere and walking or driving down the street are not optional, and we have every right to expect and demand privacy in our homes, etc.
Pygmy Goat Fancier Values Voter
Assange is a clueless dork. Jane’s Defense is the best intelligence service in the world.
http://www.janes.com/products/janes/index.aspx
Been proven long ago that social networks are better at collecting information than any government.
azlib
I am not on Facebook and never will be. When people tell me how cool it is, I just tell them to read the EULA and then decide if you want information about yourself used in that manner.
Stillwater
@danimal: If I can’t freely talk about it in front of my boss, I won’t post it on Facebook. Pretty simple rule, saves a lot of grief.
{sigh} The
CIA, theterrorists, thePTB, theCheney/Bush/Rumsfeld axis of evil,your boss… someone has already won.kindness
@Pygmy Goat Fancier Values Voter: Gotta love the wit Juicers use in assigning themselves up to the minute names. Congrats. You made me laugh.
Stay away from my goats.
Villago Delenda Est
It seems pretty obvious to me if you’re working for some agency of the government in which you handle official secrets, that you don’t want a lot of information about yourself out there where anyone and their mom can read it.
But then again, I never understood the desire of people to air their dirty laundry on the Jerry Springer show, either.
cleek
@azlib:
FB cannot use any information about you that you don’t give it.
personally, i don’t care if people know i’m married to my wife or that i like Laphroaig, the Pixies, and a handful of people i knew from high school.
i don’t give my address, and i don’t fill out any ‘quizzes’ which ask me about my mom’s maiden name, my first pet, or any other common ‘security’ questions.
Dexceus
I was at a party awhile back and there was a nutjob who was insisting that the basis of all National Security was Facebook. They used pattern analysis of Facebook to make predictions.
My deadpan response “Our national security is based on the snarky comments I make to amuse myself? We are so screwed.”
Anyone with intelligence knows that anything they put on Facebook is going to be at least semi-public knowledge. If you don’t want it known, don’t put it on there.
eemom
@burnspbesq:
the sanctimonious assery IS rather thick around here these days. Check out the Cole-fellator at the end of last night’s thread.
Joel
The only thing that scares me about the internet is I manage my finances there. The thing that bugs me about facebook is that they’re working very hard to run purchases through them. So far, I’ve avoided it. Of course, I didn’t resist the google checkout for that long…
AAA Bonds
But Assange is likely correct.
In fact, I’d count on Assange being correct if I were you.
Do you think that Facebook would deny any request from any security agency to reveal whatever data the agency requested?
What part of Facebook’s corporate behavior up to now convinces you of that?
I can guarantee you that those agencies go to Facebook directly when doing background checks on prospective employees. Nothing leads me to believe they would restrict themselves when exercising their extensive PATRIOT Act police powers, or that Facebook would fail to comply.
Assange is making a mundane point, but one that all Facebook users should take to heart.
In fact, the main response here seems to be “oh yeah he’s right but WHO CARES! WHAT A DORK” and then a bunch of fart noises.
AAA Bonds
As for the legal aspect, you won’t be surprised to learn that privacy and social networking site user agreements are part of the Wild West of case law. Anne Klinefelter at the University of North Carolina does some good work in the weeds.
There are serious questions about whether changing privacy settings substantially alters the user agreement and whether reasonable expectation applies.
It is not clear-cut at all that Facebook has the absolute right to share, with anyone, any and all information you post on their site regardless of privacy settings.
Most Americans assume this is the case without wondering about it at all. That seems peculiar to me, and I believe it reflects a cultural bias in our country toward the “rights” of private sector corporations.
However, Facebook certainly does share this information, and will continue to do so until courts or Congress say otherwise.
licensed to kill time
I’m too paranoid to comment on this thread.
Oops! o_O
Tonal Crow
Unfortunately government and many businesses do their best to invade our privacy. It is no joke that intelligence agencies examine public postings on social networking sites, and I have no doubt that they also routinely examine “private” postings, likely without warrants and possibly even without a “national security letter” (which is pitifully easy to obtain) or other subpoena-like process.
The upshot? If you care about your privacy, carefully consider what you tell whom, and remember that seemingly-disparate pieces of information often can be linked to determine who you are and what you do.
And oh yeah, GOP the tyrants, each and every one.
Darkrose
@cathyx: I should be surprised by the reaction to this by many of you that you don’t care because you have nothing to hide, but I’m not. I guess you don’t care if the police want to search your homes for whatever they want because you have nothing to hide there either.
No, I don’t care because when I started hanging out online 20 years ago, I did so with the understanding that any system can be hacked. If someone wants to find out my personal information, they will. If I choose to have a public internet presence, then I don’t get to control who sees it.
And honestly, I’m less worried about the CIA than I am about mentioning my SGA porn on Twitter when I follow David Hewlett.
Mnemosyne
@AAA Bonds:
Private employers have been doing Google searches on prospective employees for years so, yes, I’m sure those agencies do the exact same thing that private employers do. I’m not sure why it’s Horrible! and Shocking! when the government peruses the exact same public information as private companies.
Let’s say you buy a billboard in your town and post your Social Security number on it. Would you expect that information to remain confidential, or would you understand that any Joe Schmoe walking by will now have access to your SSN?