Somehow, sage advice like this isn’t resonating:
Fifty-eight percent of registered voters surveyed by Quinnipiac University over the past week indicated they “would never vote” for Palin or Trump for president.
[…]Though 15 percent of respondents indicated they are enthusiastic about Palin, only 24 percent said they would consider voting for her. Trump received a 9 percent enthusiasm rating and a 26 percent rating on whether individuals would vote for him.
It’s hard to come back from a near-landslide of “never”.
Also, too: Speaking of polls, focusing on Obama’s approval rating bounce after bin Laden’s death is pretty narrow and shortsighted. Think about the debates, and how Obama can start a response or two with the line “When I gave the order for SEALs to go in to get bin Laden …”. How could this snowbilly grifter, or her combover doppelganger, respond to that?
BGinCHI
“When I made the courageous decision to step down from my job as governor of the least populous state in America….”
“When I made the courageous decision to fire that one jamoke in the double-breasted suit….”
That’s an easy 27% right there.
Brachiator
True enough. However, what resonates is Obama’s statements during the primaries that he would make going after bin Laden a priority and would go into Pakistan to get him if necessary. The GOP contenders, so far, all fail to pass the John McCain Hillary Clinton Certified commander in chief test.
Oh, snap!
Nellcote
Assuming 24% and 26% are within the polling moe, there’s that 27% crazification factor again.
Windy City
It took less than 48 hours for the Republicans to figure out a way to call the guy who gave the Michael Corleone-esque order to cap Osama bin Laden a pussy.
There are literally no depths these people won’t grasp toward with their bony, reptilian claws.
benjoya
heh heh she said pussy
Jay C
Respond to it? Heh. These are Republicans, remember: come next year’s debates, they’ll be on the offensive, and demanding that President Obama account for his “failures” wrt Osama bin Laden…
Turgidson
Yep, Obama will be able use this success to talk about what a focused and determined leader he is, much like Bush did in 2004. Even better, he’ll be able to say so truthfully. It can’t hurt.
Phil Perspective
Gotta love the stupidity of Rebecca Mansour. She’s the one that, most likely, wrote that captioned tripe. Besides, all the President has to point to is he was hunting OBL while Palin became The Quittah.
Villago Delenda Est
“Bring me the head of Osama bin Laden!”, shrieked the woman who claims to be a hunter but can’t recall any details of her first successful hunt.
Valdivia
Not to spam since I dropped this on the previous thread, but I agree, the bounce is not all, when we can have a bumper sticker that says it all.
Dan
What a fucking bitch.
BGinCHI
@Villago Delenda Est: She must be amazed they didn’t just shoot OBL from the helicopter.
“You mean they got OUT of it?”
SpotWeld
Posting images of the corpses of your enimes to serve as a warning to those who would rise up against you…
Wow… I mean.. wow.
Turgidson
I’m almost sad that Palin’s numbers are so far into the shitter. I was hoping they’d thread the needle – be positive enough with Republicans to make her think she could win the nomination, but awful enough with the sentient rest of us that she’d set herself up for a Goldwater type beatdown. Seems like that’s off the table now. Not that she would have run anyway. Grifting is easier and more lucrative.
Georgia Pig
Doesn’t need to be that explicit. The effect of this should linger unless something bigger happens between now and 2012. It may not really show up in polls until the campaign really gets going. The minute any Republican contender starts yakking about national defense, this will hang over the conversation like a boulder. There will be dramatizations and endless regurgitation of the goings on in the Situation Room, the Blackhawk cockpits and the compound. This will slowly disseminate over the next year, so Obama doesn’t have to say anything. For Republicans, barring a miracle or a huge intervening fuckup on Obama’s part, I wonder if this is like one of those movies where the villain gets cleanly sliced in half with a katana, and keeps talking because he doesn’t realize he’s dead yet. This hasn’t sunk in yet.
jacy
It really is starting to feel like the kitchen timer is buzzing on the grifter’s 15 minutes. Has-beens can get desperate so there’s still probably a stunt or two left in her, but I think just about everybody’s arm is tired from whacking that particular pinata.
‘Cept Sully of course, but we’ve seen that his lag time on coming to the sensible side of any issue…..
lonesomerobot
Don’t know if it’s been brought up here yet, but does anyone else see legal reasons for why the body would be buried at sea and now the photo(s?) won’t be released?
I sure do. This was certainly an “extra-legal” activity and it’s not like there aren’t several members of the Bush administration who can’t travel willingly around the world now without the threat of being served with warrants or arrested. So I think the real reason for all of this evidence-suppression is really about having less of it out there in the event that international law was used against them (and forget about bringing the body or OBL here, that was just too big a legal can of worms to even consider).
I don’t think Obama’s legal advisors would have overlooked these things even as the decision was being made. It’s part and parcel of what the inhabiting the Executive Office incurs now.
Anyone?
Bob Loblaw
They couldn’t, which is why they were never going to be a plausible presidential candidate, let alone the candidate. Also, you were a jackass for even entertaining that notion at all, and you should probably stop responding “How high?” when the mainstream media asks you to jump.
Stop paying attention to sideshows just because they exist.
Mike Kay (Team America)
stick his head on a pike outside Ground Zero!!
Zifnab
@Jay C:
This. It has been wall-to-wall “The Failed Obama Administration” on FOX since day 1. They’re not going to stop the drum beat now.
I mean, will it work? That depends on the independents in the swing states, as always. Is the youth crowd going to turn out in ’12 like they did in ’08? Are the mussy middle voters and the “Throw the bums out” crowd going to go straight ticket “Other guy” like they did in ’10? What fancy new anti-voter shenanigans will we see with Republican controlled legislatures in Wisconsin and Michigan and Ohio and Florida?
ChrisNYC
Like this issue of the freaking photo or the “shifting stories” crap is going to trump (ha ha) the fact that this President got Osama. Ridiculous. These people are not good at politics.
Sasha
Palin is right. Displaying a photo of bin Laden’s corpse will make suicide bombers think twice before killing themselves.
The stupid … it burns.
Schad
@SpotWeld:
Only because putting their heads on stakes on the parapet has a somewhat more regional appeal.
Superluminar
Would it be wrong to hope that, when they were all sitting in that room at the WH, Obama turned to Hillary and said “So anyway, when I got that call at 3am…”
Chris
@Turgidson:
For a long time, I wasn’t sure. She’s lazy and thin-skinned enough that I didn’t think she’d really run for President… but it was possible, however unlikely, that she’d get so drunk with power and with all the teabagger-worship that she’d forget it was a con, think she actually had it in her, and run.
With numbers being the way they are, though, nah. Not a chance. She’ll stick to grifting (and in that respect, she’s set for life).
singfoom
Oh Sarah, you!
She’s so damn funny. Showing the picture isn’t a good warning…If you want some old time warning with your dead enemies, you gotta go the fully monty.
Have the body drawn and quartered and send the various bits to be displayed in the farthest reaches of the empire.
Man, she can’t even get that one right.
BGinCHI
When it comes to actually combating terrorism, what is literally the least you could do?
Tweet about it?
No, have someone else Tweet about it in your name.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Valdivia:
I like what Jay Leno said that could be Obama’s next campaign message:
Yes, I did!
Bulworth
Dear Sarah, STFU. Love, Bulworth.
Valdivia
On a more serious note: I love how not even 72 hours later the media is already declaring this not a victory for Obama, or trying to make it a lose for him. It seems to be that they really do not understand what this really means and that their win the day mentality is at odds with how this is a win, for a long long time.
Lolis
@Sasha:
Haha. Perfect response.
BudP
If you are a Republican critic of Obama, either run for President or STFU.
Splitting Image
Palin will promise to resign if another attack happens so she can campaign for other like-minded people to get elected so they can fight terrorism along with her.
Mike Kay (Team America)
@Sasha: Win.
Chris
@Sasha:
“You are just as stupid as those people who think capital punishment is going to be a deterrent for drug kingpins. As if drug kingpins didn’t live their day to day lives under the possibility of execution, and their executions are a lot less dainty than ours.”
– Leo McGerry, “The West Wing”
Dan
I am pretty sure that there is an ointment that can clear up the symptoms of pussy-foot.
dmsilev
Probably something to do with shooting wolves from choppers.
Re: the hot-air generator from New York, someone at the GOS came up with the perfect campaign slogan for him: “We Shall Overcomb”.
dms
Cackalacka
Yeah, I’m having a good time over at Balko’s site. He’s on vacation, and one of his back-up bloggers is using the 1st amendment/Free People! as a rationale for rubbernecking the corpse.
I find Palin’s tweet more succinct and well reasoned than his musings.
MikeJ
@Valdivia: I would love to have that bumper sticker. There’s a family a block or two over with multiple minivans with the little stick figures of eight kids and the “nope” Sheppard Fairey parody sticker. I would love to go by one night after they’ve lowered the christian flag they fly and let their vehicle remind passersby who the real leader is.
Superluminar
@Bob Loblaw
so they were never going to be the candidate because of some event that (unexpectedly) happened three days ago? Uh, ok… You know, your shtick would work much better if you knew what the fuck you were even saying…
anthrosciguy
“Well I got that ‘3AM phone call’, and the world knows how I handled it.”
gex
@Turgidson: I think that’s where Bachmann fits in. I think she’s the unsullied version of Palin they have in waiting for when they figure out how to get the Palin problem off their backs.
Martin
“On that rainy day when I was staring down Kate Gossling and her phalanx of mini-stormtroopers…”
“Oh sure, Bin Laden. But I had Stephen Baldwin on my show for 8 weeks…”
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Like a photo will change the minds of those who want to. The fact that Obama went into Pakistan, a sovereign country, will do more to put the fear into those people. We all know how well pictures of birth certificates, and even real ones, have worked at convincing people of something.
Martin
@anthrosciguy: Actually:
“I didn’t wait for that 3AM call. I placed it. Collect.”
Mike Kay (Team America)
@Cackalacka:
Yet I bet they oppose releasing the Abu Gharib photos
ABL
Did she just say “No Drama?” Who is she, Mary J. Blige?
Jesus Fuck on a Pizza.
catclub
“It’s hard to come back from a near-landslide of “never”.”
Notable exception: Beer Hall Putsch 1923
Chancellor 1933
FlipYrWhig
@SpotWeld:
I recognize that as a tactic long adopted… by violent pro-lifers.
Brachiator
@lonesomerobot:
I don’t think you have much to go on here about anything either legal or extra-legal.
@Zifnab:
Very true. So far, the lighteight stuff has been, “This was Obama only continuing the most excellent policies of Chairman Dubya.” It will be interesting to see what they come up with next.
On the other hand, the birther nonsense was clearly too much for some people, and Obama’s release of his birth certificate has isolated the hardest core of idiots. Some now look at the wingnuts, including friends and family, and where previously they might have said, “Well, OK, maybe there’s something there,” they are now going, “Dude. What’s wrong with you?”
Similarly, it’s hard to push the “stealth Muslim who is going to make everyone convert to Islam” meme when bin Laden has been caught and dealt with.
gex
@Odie Hugh Manatee: That might be the first time in a long time I’ve enjoyed anything by Jay.
MikeJ
@Belafon (formerly anonevent):
GOS had a poll up that showed Republicans still think Obama is a furriner.
Bob Loblaw
@MikeJ:
If your self-esteem is so low that you fantasize about defacing random vans, I’m gonna venture to say you need to toughen up a little bit, champ.
@Superluminar:
They were never going to be credible candidates because they’re reality tv hosts with no fundraising. And no talent for retail politics. And no resumes. And openly hypocritical, entitled, and hateful personalities that don’t play well with swing voters.
But you’re right, other than all of that, I should have taken them very, very seriously.
…Do you feel foolish yet?
Valdivia
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
perfection.
@MikeJ:
Maybe CafePress will make it? Perfect counter to that stupid Nope one.
Hungry Joe
No way did Obama spend a day mulling over what to do with the pictures/body; this was no doubt discussed at great length, and the decision made — with input from many experts — long ago. And Palin? Palin is Palin, and she’ll do what she does: continue to wave her arms and jump up and down yelling “Look at me!” And every time we turn our heads in her direction, we extend her payday.
Joey Maloney
@ChrisNYC: These people are not good at politics.
And we’re been losing to them for most of the past forty years.
lonesomerobot
@Brachiator: Really? These issues are legally analyzed to death by Presidents’ legal advisors. It seems that every aspect of the operation, including the legal ramifications of keeping the body/releasing the photos would have been considered.
I just have to ask if anyone else thinks the legal considerations for everyone involved might have played a role in these decisions. It seems to me to be more obvious an explanation than just about anything else put forward.
Martin
@lonesomerobot:
Um, because nobody would permit us burying him on land?
There’s probably no legal reason why OBL couldn’t have been turned over to Damien Hirst, sliced into cross-sections, and displayed at the Smithsonian. If you’re going to demand a legal defense for whatever arbitrary outcome you would propose, then you’re going to give validation to every arbitrary outcome.
Sometimes decisions are based on practical reasons, you know.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@gex:
Agreed. I saw it on MSNBC yesterday so I didn’t have to endure the rest of his lame-assed crap.
I miss Johnny Carson.
@Valdivia:
Yes, it is! :)
ornery curmudgeon
No … the ‘politicking and drama’ thing to do would be to release gruesome photos of a corpse; the no-pussyfooting choice is to NOT release graphic photos.
Maybe the point of a lot of this right-wing ‘rhetoric’ is simply to turn thinking minds inside out.
pragmatism
@ABL: she said “hells no” the other day. i think she’s trying to do some youth outreach by asking her kids (i only call them what tbogg does now–titshimmy, branch, tweek, malice and duffel) for catch phrases. also, too, i picture her saying “i know what’s hip” like dr. evil and doing a slow version of the macarena.
Just Some Fuckhead
As long as Obama doesn’t release the photo, I think that it’s prolly best not to release it. If Obama releases it, I think it’s prolly best if he releases it.
Palin is fucking up my system.
lonesomerobot
@Martin: That’s not my angle. Like I said, it seems there are plenty of reasons Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates or, of course, Obama would want to be able to carry out their future days free of the threat of being arrested in Spain for some violation of international law like some former members of the Bush admin have to deal with now. That seems pretty practical to me.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Some more funnies:
Jimmy Fallon Twatted: “Got Bin Laden AND interrupted Celebrity Apprentice? Win for Obama all around.”
Conan O’Brien, on interrupting Trump’s show:
“begs the question: how do we kill bin Laden again next Sunday?”
Dana J. Gould Twatted:
“Bin Laden officially dead, the same week we learned Obama officially born. Weird …”
Quoted from ABC web site.
Valdivia
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
I guess twitter does have a purpose! :)
SpotWeld
As I think about this, I realize that it’s really a lose-lose situation that’s being engineered by the opposition here.
Let’s say photos are released. We get a 180 deg whip-round and suddenly Obama is “thug” who is obviously “un-Christian” and Limbaugh will come up with a comparision with televised beheadings.
maya
Palin has a point. After all she did release the tape where it took her 7 shots, at 50 yards, with a scoped rifle, in the prone position, with two inch fingernails and daddy reloading her weapon, to finally bring down one hapless caribou. Now that’s leadership for you. And some really fine shootin’!
freelancer
Re: @sarahpalinusa
I know I’d like to kick Palin in the- Nevermind, you get the idea.
Brian S
I’ll start worrying about Palin when she gives a “you won’t have Sarah to kick around anymore.”
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Valdivia:
For once…lol!
Bill
The teabaggers are one step away from: “Stick their heads on a spike outside the White House”
Charming.
retr327
The best part is that she’s so stupid she doesn’t even perceive the contradiction between displaying the photo as a symbol of “no pussy-footing around” and the fact that Obama, who she can’t bring herself to name and congratulate, is the one who didn’t pussy-foot around.
Bumper sticker I’d like to see: “Bin Ladin? Done that.”
MikeJ
@lonesomerobot: I don’t see how releasing the photos or not would have any impact on that. Only the truly deranged think there was anything the slightest bit wrong with this operation, and nothing that is done, nothing that is withheld, will change their minds.
Crazy people are gonna be crazy. People who remember the train station in Madrid being blown up aren’t going to indict Obama.
trollhattan
Clearly, it’s time to have a Serious, Adult Conversation(tm) about deathp0rn photos, and how kewhl they are. Also, too.
TooManyJens
Who the fuck is she to say it’s part of the mission? The closest this woman has ever come to military strategy is putting crosshairs on a map.
ChrisNYC
@Joey Maloney: Um yeah, except for Reagan’s 1980-88 was the only real GOP success there. GWB was a disaster for the country and the GOP. Bush I — meh. Clinton, I think counts as a win for Dems. Plus there was those wave elections in 2006 and 2008, the current WH and Senate, and a GOP so hollow it cannot field a serious slate of 2012 candidates.
It floors me that Dems persist in this hang dog stuff when the GOP is actually running on ending Medicare. If this is what it looks like when “we’re losing” I’ll take it any day.
Dennis SGMM
Palin is edging toward Geraldo Rivera territory. If her numbers sink much lower she’s going to have to go for stunts. I predict that she will demand that Reagan’s corpse be disinterred on network television because she has proof that he’s alive and being held captive by the Democrats.
Jay Parks
FIFY.
Martin
@lonesomerobot: Well, OBL is, I believe, a stateless person. Legally, I can’t imagine there is any limitation to what we were obligated do with the body. There’s no nation to return it to. If anything, you might argue under Geneva Convention that we would bury it respectfully and not release photos, which is actually what we did.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
Are you suggesting that Obama use the same old, worn debate tactic that proved so successful for Rudy Giuliani? Or the pathetic John “Reporting for Duty” Kerry? I would suggest Obama stick with what he does best, which is sound like he knows what he’s talking about, I hope he doesn’t put it on cruise control by just punching these hot-button catchphrases.
Any competent politician would handle that easily, by changing the subject to the economy. Any competent politician, that is.
Brachiator
@lonesomerobot:
This is true. It’s just that I don’t see your speculations as being germane to any specific legal issue.
Maybe someone who is a lawyer, or a former White House counsel, will post something. Otherwise, there is just not much to say here.
lonesomerobot
@MikeJ: Well, basically I agree but I also think when you apply the legal advisor to the President™ logic you get some pretty crazy outcomes… like, “we have to limit the release of evidence to protect the President and his cabinet from future litigation.”
Because whether or not “only the truly deranged think there was anything the slightest bit wrong with this operation” the fact is that it could be interpreted to be, under purely technical definitions of international law, at least of dubious legality. And that’s what a President has legal advisors around to figure out.
Elizabelle
I am sick of this ugly, photogenic woman.
And very pleased President Obama decided against releasing the death photos.
He is a class act, and Mrs. Palin is not.
Spaghetti Lee
So first we had birthers, then diplomaers…what’s the name for this new group of intellectual luminaries? Corpsers?
Superluminar
@Bob Loblaw
actually no, i don’t feel particularly foolish as i have suceeded in getting you to publish something that makes considerably more sense than what you had originally written. I give myself a pat on the back for that. But thanks anyway.
freelancer
@Spaghetti Lee:
Photograph-ers!
(if only we can convince them to pronounce it PHO-tog-ra-phers, that would be brilliant)
“I’m a PHOTOgrapher! Obama needs to release the photo!”
“So you’re a PhoTOGrapher? I don’t get it where’s your camera?”
“No you stupid idiot, I’m a PHOTOgrapher! There’s a difference, but you wouldn’t know that ’cause you only pay attention to the lamSTREAM media!”
“I’m confused by you, and a little scared.”
Uloborus
@lonesomerobot:
You’re assuming that this operation is a violation of international law or is likely to be interpreted as such by *anybody*. These are not safe interpretations. No government or court is going to begin to contest Obama’s being an enemy combatant, and the only other objection is that it happened on another country’s soil. Considering our multi-layered relationship with Pakistan including operations conducted on their soil on a daily basis, that only becomes even a possible issue if Pakistan’s government officially objects and says we overstepped our bounds. They haven’t.
If somehow this were a violation of international law, which is something so silly only the extreme left-wing of American politics would believe, Obama confessed on recorded national television. Photos ain’t gonna matter.
lonesomerobot
@Martin & Brachiator: I’m referring more to the ‘targeted assassination within the borders of a sovereign nation’ aspect as the legal issue.
And personally I will add that I’m not one that has any problem with it. But I’m just wondering if whether there isn’t more to this than just wanting to avoid offending Muslims and “spiking the ball”.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Superluminar: Thank you Mr. Trump.
MikeJ
@Spaghetti Lee: I’m sticking with deathers. And have already discovered that “don’t you think he’s dead, or are you some kind of conspiracy theorist?” tends to make them stutter. And no matter what they answer with, always use the word “conspiracy theory” in your response. Over and over. Again and again.
Sadly not everybody knows what you mean when you call her “Spooky Mulder.”
Dennis SGMM
Shit, by asserting that they have reliable information that bin Laden is still alive. Of course they can’t reveal the sources of that information because that would endanger them. In 2004 we ran a decorated military veteran who, unlike his opponent, had actually gone to Vietnam and experienced hostile fire. How long did it take the GOP to turn that into an indictment of his character and veracity?
The GOP and their winger base will latch onto the “OBL is still alive” meme simply because it’s impossible for them to believe that a black Democrat accomplished something that a white Republican could not.
TooManyJens
@MikeJ:
Well, now I feel old.
Brachiator
Might very well be the case. Here’s an interesting little news item, hot off the Internets:
So it may be that even though bin Laden might not have been as powerful as he once was, his fate may be having positive ripple effects.
Bubblegum Tate
The same way she always responds to debate questions.
Just Some Fuckhead
@MikeJ:
The true story is that the body is so decomposed they are not able to release a photo. Apparently, one of Biden’s grandchildren found Osama’s body in an unused area of the basement of the Governor’s Mansion, shackled, where it had apparently been used for sex for some years after expiring from torture. Also found in the room was a defibrillator and other emergency medical equipment.
Uloborus
@lonesomerobot:
See above. It’s not a legal issue. It’s never going to be a legal issue. International law depends largely on who cares. Nobody cares. NOBODY. Even other Muslim nations hated Bin Laden. He was, as was described earlier, a ‘stateless person’. No one wanted him alive, no one was willing to bury his body on their soil. We were already IN Pakistan and had agreements with Pakistan to hunt this guy down. We only went too far if they said we did. That is the exact way it works. They are not saying it.
Even describing this as ‘targeted assassination within the borders of a sovereign nation’ is extremely deceptive phrasing considering our relationship both with Bin Laden and Pakistan. It’s accurate about the same way describing the safety net as ‘entitlements’ is.
Tim Ferg
I am curious to know who gave Sarah Palin operational control in the White House?
Evidently she feels that get role as serial grifter and sideline bomb-thrower entitles her to authority to define the mission.
MikeJ
@Uloborus:
Not only that, ISI was telling Pakistani press *that night* that it was a joint operation. Nobody believed them, but they wanted credit. Blame wasn’t a word to be found.
OzoneR
We definitely need a thread about this Halpern abortion
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/httpthepagetimecom20110503halperinstakemistakesweremadexidrssfullnationyahoo#mwpphu-container
lonesomerobot
@Uloborus: Certainly it’s a stretch but then again I can see from a legal standpoint why they would have dumped the body at sea. Imagine the possibility of all the domestic lawsuits compelling the government to produce the body if it had been brought back to the US. Brietbart comes to mind immediately as someone who would try this. I’m just following that line of thinking as it relates to the photos as well. I think my larger point is that perhaps any of the evidence could be used as a basis for any kind of litigation (in international courts), even if it was instigated by a psycho.
And Fox must now be “the extreme left-wing of American politics” because they’re floating this “the operation was illegal” BS right now.
Alex S.
@OzoneR:
What a hack…
Uloborus
@MikeJ:
I swear to Glod, I’m starting to wonder if there really are conservatives paid to ratfuck liberal blogs by posting an ‘I’m on your side but let me plant this meme involving misinformation that appeals to liberal sensitivities’ comment in the hopes it gets sucked up. If so, it’s working pretty well.
Martin
@lonesomerobot: Wasn’t an assassination, and in the context of drone and tomahawk strikes that have been taking place for decades now under every president in the interests of national security, this was exceptionally police-like. Pakistan has said (however willingly) that we had permission to go, so that’s not an issue. Besides, it’s Pakistan’s complaint to file, not some international courts.
No, I imagine that had we sent SEALs into Switzerland or the Vatican and shot up Bin Laden that we’d still be legally solid (politically perhaps not). Bin Laden isn’t a citizen of those nations, and I can’t see them making the argument that he was under their legal protections, as you might make on behalf of a visiting tourist. Basically, nobody is going to come to his defense as he’s a citizen of no nation and (formally) unwelcome everywhere.
freelancer
OT – Anybody seen this?
While that sounds totally offensive, the White House issued this clarifying statement:
So OBL’s codename wasn’t Geronimo. Geronimo was the codeword for “‘Operation: Shoot Mass-Murdering Emir Fucknuts in the Goddamn Face’ is a total success.”
I guess I’m having a hard time seeing the outrage, given that clarification.
Valdivia
@OzoneR:
as I said above this is the new narrative: Obama may have killed Osama but he failed the propaganda war afterwards, failed to win the day, so he loses! God these people are despicable.
Uloborus
@lonesomerobot:
No, it’s not a stretch. You’re trying to describe it as if it’s credible, as if it’s something the White House could ever care about. In doing so you’re implying that the White House is perfectly willing to violate international law and only cares about covering it up in a clumsy and transparent way. And you’re making that implication about an issue that… isn’t an issue.
I will grant that the extreme right end and the extreme left end sometimes sound AWFULLY similar, which is why I have no sympathy for either.
lonesomerobot
@Uloborus: Well, I hate to disappoint you, but some people do care.
Now, I know why they care – because they are assholes. But maybe you should have held your tongue because the American right are pretty crazy themselves, if you didn’t notice. And if you think they won’t try to make it an issue, you’ve sadly underestimated their assholiness.
Jay in Oregon
I’m with TBogg: “SHUT UP DUMB LADY”
EDIT: And I love his Palin family bumpersticker — http://static1.firedoglake.com/29/files/2011/05/snowbillysticker.png
Georgia Pig
Looking at that tweet again, god, she is a twisted fuck. Glad to see the WH saying it’s shutting down further discussion of the mission. It should stay a mystery. That’s “part of the mission” of the SEALs, not generating war porn pics for voyeurs like Palin. Let Hollywood make up some mythology.
dmsilev
@OzoneR: If Mark Halperin thinks that Obama lost the day, or whatever the hell the phrase is, that’s probably the clearest possible evidence that Obama and his administration are handling things properly.
Halperin has an accuracy rate of approximately 1.05 Kristols.
dms
Stefan
Oh, sure, everybody’s jumping on Palin, but what I want to know is, why did it take Obama almost ten years to get bin Laden?
Uloborus
@lonesomerobot:
No. No one listed there is anyone. Not in the context of your comments. You were talking about violations of international law. Conservative pundits are irrelevant in whether Obama has to fear for even an eyeblink trial for violation of international law. They are practically the definition of the fringe. In this case ‘anyone’ refers to countries, not individuals. You can find an individual to say that Obama is selling our babies to the Venusians. Heck, you can probably find him on FOX.
Stefan
Posting images of the corpses of your enimes to serve as a warning to those who would rise up against you…
It’s the Christian thing to do.
Suffern ACE
I for one, would like to lock all the photos in the room photos in a room and tell those photos to quit the bullshit.
lonesomerobot
@Uloborus: I’m implying that the White House has enemies that heretofore have stooped to whatever lows possible to try and inflict damage. You can stop acting like what I’m saying is crazy talk because, lo and behold, there are right wingers already floating the idea that the operation was illegal.
I don’t agree but I have to wonder if this was a consideration.
Furthermore I’m not implying a cover up; I’m implying that this president would do what many others before him have done — cover his legal bases.
Jay C
@OzoneR:
The best response to Mark Halperin’s idiotic piece, on “Five mistakes the Obama Administration has made…” came from one of their commenters (of which there were, last I looked, 2,137) sums it all up in a nutshell:
Cat Lady
I heard on my ride home that Obama explained to Steve Croft for a 60 Minutes interview that showing the picture would “be spiking the football”, and needlessly incendiary. That’s a good enough reason for me. Also too, he said that there’s no reason to convince al Qaeda of bin Laden’s death – all of their intelligence confirms that they know he’s dead. So, fuck you, Quittah. Bite me.
aimai
@freelancer:
I thought the whole geronimo thing was staggeringly bad aesthetically speaking. But I’m old enough to remember that people used to shout “geronimo” when beginning an exciting action like sky diving. So maybe that is what they thought they were using as code? Still, extremely stupid. Should have gone for something totally non ethnic and non denominational like “Radish” or “The Moon Rises tonight”
aimai
trollhattan
@freelancer:
Rejected earlier suggestions: Hello Kitteh, Bullwinkle J. Moose, Chauncey Gardener, Madonna.
When I was kid, “Geronimo” was what parachutists supposedly yelled when exiting the plane. So, I’ve always considered it a combination of “Yahoo!” and “Holy Crap!”
Brachiator
@lonesomerobot:
OK. Still not interested. The disposal of bin Laden’s body is irrelevant to the “sovereign nation” aspect of the issue.
BGinCHI
@aimai: Or Maverick.
Uloborus
@lonesomerobot:
There are no legal bases to COVER, and by suggesting that he’s worried he has to protect himself from prosecution for ‘targeted assassination within the borders of a sovereign nation’ you are, in fact, implying that the action itself is illegal and merely asking if he thinks he has to cover it up to get away with it.
Nobody thinks this is illegal, Lonesome. If you’re going to nitpick, it’s ‘nobody who has any potential say over the legality’. It’s not illegal, and you can only even raise the question by using extremely deceptive terminology. It wasn’t assassination and the ‘sovereign nation’ said ‘yes, please!’
It is a non-issue. It exists only to the extent that you are wasting breath on it.
danimal
@OzoneR: That was a really ugly article by the jerk Halperin. How dare Obama let the press go out of control with conspiracy theories?
Obviously, Obama should censor the press so that arguments about death photos, AfPak policy and the like don’t harsh Halperin’s buzz. Our freedom demands it.
Redshift
@lonesomerobot: The point is, you need to come up with some evidence that there’s an actual legal hazards there before you start speculating that actions must have been taken for nefarious reasons to protect against those legal hazards. The fact that presidential advisors consider legal ramifications doesn’t automatically mean that some decision was made for legal reasons. And no, declaring that it was an “extra-legal” action on par with the Bush Administration isn’t evidence.
The Bush administration carried out an aggressive war against a country that was not an imminent threat. This has been considered a war crime since Nuremberg. They carried out a program of torture, which is a crime against humanity, and had legal “experts” justifying it, an action for which lawyers were prosecuted at Nuremberg.
This action was only even possibly an invasion of Pakistan if they choose to declare it was. Do you think they will?
It wasn’t an assassination in any sense of international law, even if he wasn’t killed while resisting capture, because the subject was an internationally notorious criminal who had publicly claimed responsibility for his crimes.
And most important, as Uloborus pointed out, is that if legal experts insisted on these actions to protect the administration legally, they certainly would have insisted that the president not go on TV and declare that we’d done it.
There is no ground to stand on there. “I think it’s weird, so there must be some other explanation” is just conspiracy-mongering, not analysis.
Martin
@Brachiator:
Yeah, that was part of my suspicion the other night.
Either the intel we gathered at Bin Laden would be good enough that we’d be able to track a bunch of these guys down, or that everyone inside al Qaeda would simply have to assume that we now know everything, forcing everyone to have to relocate, plans to change, money to have to be moved, etc. If nothing else, the entirety of al Qaeda has an ‘oh shit’ moment, goes into full-blown self-protection mode, and every plan they ever hatched gets shelved until they’re confident we aren’t just about to kick their door in. And along the way, all of this response puts people out in the open for us to find, at least temporarily.
lonesomerobot
@Uloborus: So earlier when you said, “Nobody cares. NOBODY.” that meant really nobody that you think matters? They do happen to be people that have a bigger sounding board than your quite demonstrative (and now demonstrably wrong) comments here. And in the context of my comments I absolutely meant any person or organization that was crazy and willing enough to pursue it, you can stop trying to speak my mind for me.
I’ve been civil to you, but from your first reply you’ve been fairly absolutist and dismissive to what I’ve had to say. Just wanted you to know, there’s a way to have a discussion without coming off as basically a jerk.
freelancer
@trollhattan:
That’s where I remember it from, too. And there’s even the joke, I can’t remember what parody film, perhaps Hot Shots, has the joke of people jumping out of a plane, yelling “Geronimo!”, and a Native American steps to the door and goes, “MEEEEE!” as he jumps.
It’s inavertantly insensitive, yes, but I honestly think that somebody on the hill is just trying to generate media attention for a hearing on Native American affairs that was already going to take place in an attempt to siphon eyeballs off of the OBL story feeding frenzy.
@aimai:
And offend those thin-skinned, Luna worshipping Pagans? Are you MAD, woman?!
Martin
@freelancer:
Honestly, it’s like that word is invisible to a bunch of people. Please don’t help perpetuate the problem.
Redshift
@freelancer: The Indian groups that have gotten the memo about the real code name seem to be mostly okay with it.
Waratah
Sara can wait and watch the movie.
Waratah
Sara can wait and watch the movie.
Villago Delenda Est
Obama’s major mistake: Not inviting Halperin along on the mission, so he could be “accidentally” caught in a cross fire.
For one thing, Kristol doesn’t like the competition from Halperin for totally bogus predictions. Steal’s Kristol’s spotlight away, it does.
Mike Kay (Team America)
@Redshift: but now, Las Vegas is pissed.
gwangung
@Martin:
Huh. Wonder if that’s a side benefit or an objective of a SEAL assault.
trollhattan
@Martin:
Some thoughts are emerging this gives us leverage to bring the Taliban to the negotiating table. Since the relationship between mullah Omar and Osama, whatever it had become, is now over they might be more inclined to do so. I’m guessing the Taliban are also rather tribal and fractured themselves rather than one unified movement, so I don’t know how negotiations can even happen. I presume we’ve learned quite a bit on how the culture functions there, in the last nine years.
Don’t know whether this has any validity, but sometimes change of any kind is good for getting people to rethink their positions.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014957726_apasafghanistan.html
Valdivia
Ha, a bunch of senators were duped by a staffer into thinking they had seen the real picture when they were seeing a photoshop. All of them Republicans of course. Idiots.
Evolved Deep Southerner
@Uloborus: No fucking shit, Sherlock. Do the words “Joe” and “Beese” or “Wyldepirate” mean anything to you?
Calouste
@Brachiator:
It definitely send the message:
“Wherever you go, we can find you. And now that we have bin Laden’s stack of info, we’re going to find you a whole lot quicker.”
Redshift
@lonesomerobot:
Right. People who always find a way to be on the opposite side of every issue from Obama, even if it requires obviously contradicting their own well-documented previous position, “really do care.”
Jay in Oregon
@Valdivia:
Must have made it awkward to zip their pants up afterwards.
Suffern ACE
@OzoneR: My God! Does Halperin actually read the words that he writes? Mr. President, people are debating things. You have to stop that! People might hope that we’re going to leave Afghanistan. Stop them from talking like that! That’s crazy talk!
Mike Kay (Team America)
@trollhattan:
Except when people named Geronimo jump out of a plane, they yell, “ME!”.
MikeJ
@Mike Kay (Team America):
How about Atlantic City? Does Trump still own any cas1nos or did he genius them all into the ground?
Uloborus
@lonesomerobot:
…demonstrably wrong? How? You’ve nitpicked utterly irrelevant technicalities to support your continued implication that the president is deliberately covering up an act he believes may put him at risk of trial in international law.
When you resorted to this distracting nitpick, taking my words literally while ignoring the context of the conversation, I rephrased them to match your demands. You have not addressed that rephrasing. You have not addressed any of my actual arguments. You have not supplied any evidence that Obama might be in the slightest bit concerned about being tried for ‘targeted assassination within the borders of a sovereign nation’, a wildly misleading description.
Yes, these things annoy me.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Redshift:
Thank goodness for that. The spectre of Congressional hearings about the appropriateness of carrying out Operation Geronimo using Apache helicopters might have been more than I could take. My Stupid/Irony Meter only goes up to 11, after all.
Brachiator
@aimai:
The phrase turned up a couple of times in last season’s Doctor Who. From some of the comments in the fanbase, you get the impression that there are people who have no idea that the word was ever associated with a historical person.
Martin
@lonesomerobot:
No, nobody with legal standing cares. Honestly, you’re a mess on this. You can’t go out and say ‘what are the legal ramifications of this’ and then ignore the fact that only certain parties would have a legal standing, and when people point out that the parties with legal standing are, as best as we can tell, only Pakistan, and they’ve already signed off on it, you then get outraged. Legal questions aren’t about who cares or who we value. It’s about who has standing under the law. OBL is a citizen of no country. Saudi Arabia revoked his citizenship. So he has no legal protections as a citizen. The only protections he would have is territorial, and Pakistan is refusing to extend those to him. Sure, someone might come out of the woodwork and say that OBL was their citizen out of some moral sense of charity, but nobody cares about OBL enough to do even that.
Maybe Beese and Canadian Observer can form their own country and make OBL their citizen.
MikeJ
@Brachiator: Should have gone with Operation Allons-y Alonso.
Valdivia
@Jay in Oregon:
LOL. so true. Especially the part where Ayotte said she didn’t think it was gruesome or some such.
Redshift
And there’s a way to @lonesomerobot:
But what you’re not doing is showing any basis for them being concerned about whether it was legal.
Without that, right-wingers mouthing off about it being illegal and possibly going to court to cause trouble isn’t a legal problem, it’s a political problem. And “destroying evidence” (in your terms) just to try to make it harder for crazy Republicans to attack the president who got bin Laden is even more ludicrous than doing it for “legal reasons.”
Again, you don’t get to say “this could be happening, prove to me that it isn’t.” Either you first provide some vaguely plausible justification for why it could be happening, or you shouldn’t expect the smackdown to be polite.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@MikeJ:
Personally I would have prefered Operation Inigo Montoya but that’s a matter of taste.
Villago Delenda Est
@Redshift:
This, this, this.
Never forget, the crime prosecuted at Nuremberg that was the fount of all other crimes was the conspiracy against the peace and the waging of aggressive war. Everything else flowed from that precipitate crime…the Holocaust, Crimes against Humanity, all of it.
Bush violated that particular standard with his invasion of Iraq, despite his efforts to make it “legal.”
Remember this exchange from the first Star Wars prequel?
“Begin landing your troops, Viceroy.”
“But, my lord, is that legal?”
“I will make it legal.”
Martin
Oh, look, now the FBI is assassinating people in Florida.
Someone call Greenwald and Beese. Wondertwin powers activate! Form of a weasel! Shape of tears of impotent rage!
lonesomerobot
@Redshift: First, you’re reading way into my comment to suggest that I said it was on par with the Bush admin’s actions. It’s not, that’s a simple thing to see. My point was that the mere fact that there are members of a prior administration who now have to deal with these kinds of issues would seem to be reason enough to be thorough about an operation like this.
Second, a president’s advisors might not just look into the legal ramifications, but also the political ones. This president’s advisors might have foreseen the whole enchilada — “deathers” and right-wing opponents trying to claim that what he did was illegal, as well as the international legal issues.
Basically what I’m seeing is that the whole operation was handled so well but now the aftermath seems to be almost improvised. And this is maybe my real point — is this on purpose or are they really improvising? They had to know that there would be people that wouldn’t believe them no matter what they said, but the way they’re handling it now by changing the narrative, retracting parts of the story and now not releasing the photos only seems to feed into the conspiracist fervor, not dispel it. Was this the plan (perhaps they like having the distraction of the crazies), or did they have some other NON-conspiratorial reasons for the way this has been handled? Because basically I don’t get it and I’m not one for just looking at one dimension of an issue. Sorry if this bothers some people here.
Tonal Crow
@Jay C: Yep. Republicans can spin anything as anything to their base all the time, and to the “swing voters” far too often.
Omnes Omnibus
@lonesomerobot: International law is basically a bunch of agreements between sovereign states and/or groups of states. Whatever international agreement one might name, it basically does not apply to a country unless the country has acceded to it. As a result, it is easiest to think of it like contract law. To a large degree, something is not a violation if no one chooses to see it as one. As to your specifics, what aspect of international law do you think might have been violated by this mission? Who is the aggrieved party? (Hint: generally, it is going to be a country.) Osama was basically stateless. He was Saudi by birth, but they kicked him to the curb. They won’t file a complaint regarding his treatment. He was living in Pakistan; they sure as hell don’t look like they are outraged. Was Pakistani airspace violated? Was this an incursion into a sovereign state? Not if Pakistan does not say so. What else might it be?
FlipYrWhig
@Martin:
The Phantom Zone.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Martin: You have well and truly gone ’round the bend. Are you seriously comparing an FBI shootout with President ordering the assassination of a US citizen, then using that as a springboard to mock concern for civil liberties?
You must be a Republican. Nothing else makes sense.
Jamey
We’ll show you dead OBL when you show us pictures of you giving birth to Trig.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jamey: I would prefer not to see either, thank you very much.
Redshift
@lonesomerobot:
Perhaps that should be a signal that you know a lot less about it than the people handling it. You might want to do some research to see what had been previously published about how bin Laden’s corpse might be dealt with to avoid creating a shrine for extremists and minimize backlash. They weren’t just making this up as they went along.
lonesomerobot
@Uloborus: I’m not making any demands, I’m only trying to have a discussion. I’m not trying to imply a cover-up, I’m only saying that it is within the bounds of reason to suggest that anyone could imply it.
Really, we don’t know if Pakistan said “yes please”. What I read was that we did it without asking them.
What if the government of Pakistan falls and is overtaken by Islamic fundamentalists?
What if Afghanistan falls to the Taliban who then claim OBL as their own?
What if Brietbart pays some whackjob to try and continually file lawsuits in whatever country will hear it?
What if bin Laden’s family decide they have an issue?
Personally, I like to have discussions of this sort. I don’t like to dismiss things out of hand like you’ve done. Trying to back out of saying “nobody cares” and “nobody thinks this is illegal” — statements which are demonstrably wrong — doesn’t win the argument for you.
I believe one can be a realist about politics in America today, and part of that is coming to terms that EVERY president has advisors that explore dicey legal issues, and EVERY president has to make tough decisions based on an analysis of those issues. I’m not saying Obama is culpable in any way, but what I am saying is that it would be hard for me to believe there wasn’t at least a discussion about the legalities.
I’m not here to say what’s right or what’s wrong, I’m only suggesting that any member of Obama’s national security team wouldn’t want to have to deal with even the crazies in their future public lives. And this certainly isn’t an attempt at somehow creating some parity with what Bush did.
Martin
@Just Some Fuckhead: When did OBL become a US citizen?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Martin: Sorry, thought you were making the comparison to the last terrorist we “caught”. When did the FBI assassinate OBL, since you brought it up?
Martin
@lonesomerobot:
What if space aliens claim OBL as one of their own?
You can’t ‘what-if’ you way through decisions. You’d never get anything done. OBLs family doesn’t have standing. They can file a civil suit, which will be tossed out. Breitbart can do whatever the fuck he wants – the administration isn’t going to change their decision making around what some lunatic without standing might do in the courts. It doesn’t matter if Afghanistan or Pakistan falls to the Taliban, you can’t go back in time and gain legal standing. When things happen matter. If my house in 50 years winds up inside of Arizona’s borders, they can’t sue me for the fence I put up last week.
You only have to deal with what is reasonable, not what might happen. If you want to have a legal discussion, at least have the courtesy to walk into it with a rudimentary understanding of how legal systems do and don’t work.
Oh, and Pakistan did state that we had permission, even though we didn’t tell them. The two don’t need to go together.
Omnes Omnibus
@lonesomerobot: What is the name of god makes you think that there is any question as to whether Obama discussed the legal ramifications of going after Bin Laden with DoJ, DoD, and State Department lawyers? Of course consultation with lawyers was a part of the planning and decision making process. Your suggestion that the body was more or less dumped at sea to avoid unpleasant questions, seems to imply that you think there might be some violation of international law here. If so, please come out and say what you think it might be. Otherwise, you are asking people to speculate wildly. I, for one, am not inclined to do so.
Fred
I REALLY REALLY really don’t need to see the twats tweets!
Mike Kay (Team America)
@Just Some Fuckhead: you lose citizenship when you join armed forces engaging in hostilities against the US. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1481.html
al-Qaeda has formally declared war on the US and Anwar al-Awlaki has lost his citizenship by enlisting.
Martin
@Just Some Fuckhead: Was referring to the repeated claims that the US assassinated OBL, in lieu of arrest, trial, etc.
And when did we assassinate a US citizen? Did I miss something?
Mumbly_Joe
I agree with Lou Sarah here. We should totally release photographs of war dead, in order to demoralize or intimidate the enemy. And while we’re at it, we should totally waterboard, because it’s a good idea to punish terrorists, cruelly and unusually. It’s all part of the mission. To violate every single law.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
i can smell osama from my house!
Mike in NC
In other words, Halperin knows this is very good news for Osama bin Laden!
lonesomerobot
@Redshift: The disposal of the body is pretty easy to figure out. No way they could have taken it anywhere, and certainly a bad idea to bring it to the US (as mentioned before, with people like Brietbart saying it’s “every Americans right” to see the body, it would have only been a matter of time before that was a BIG mess).
Beyond that is where I’m seeing a bit of disorganization. Look, I’m happy to admit I’m not an expert here — I never claimed I was. My initial comment was probably both not completely clear and also seemed too conclusive when I don’t actually have a conclusion. But I also think it’s pretty fundamental to think the legal issues must have been discussed.
I do believe we live in a country where a former president’s legal advisor actually surmised whether it was legal for the president to give the order to crush a child’s testicles. That, to me, sounds crazy. But I’m a realist and now I have to believe that similarly crazy questions will be considered by legal advisors to all presidents going forward. It probably isn’t nut-crushing in Obama’s case but I still have to believe that the world of presidential-level hypothetical legal reasoning is a vast and crazy place.
LanceThruster
Thank Dog she’s only tweeting. When she speaks it reminds me of the screech of the character Gladys Kravitz from the early “Betwitched” TV series –
“Aaabnerrrr!”
LanceThruster
@Omnes Omnibus:
Howza ’bout a picture of pussyfoot? (nudge-nudge, wink-wink, say no more, waaaah!)
Omnes Omnibus
@lonesomerobot:
That was under US law, not international. It was wrong, also too.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Martin:
Doug Harlan J
I agree that getting bin Laden is big in a way that won’t show up in approval ratings. It has a long-term effect on how many voters view Democrats on foreign policy.
danimal
Regarding Snowbillys tweet: it was positively Luntzian. The GOP desperately wants to make Obama look effete, less than masculine, wimpy, and all the other “weak” stereotypes they’ve tried to associate with Dems for the past few decades. It’s no accident that she used the word pu$$y-foot. It’s a subtly sexist attempt to feminize Obama. By putting the P word close to Obama’s name, she’s trying to reinforce the association. Something to remember the next time Palin tries to claim Dems are sexist.
I don’t think it will work this time, but this is a very typical GOP usage of language to appeal to the lizard-brained GOP voters.
danimal
@Doug Harlan J: Another big effect that won’t show directly in approval ratings is that this gives Obama a lot of room to make popular policy shifts that he may not have been able to pull off pre-OBL.
For example, how much grief will the GOP give Obama as he cuts the budget by accelerating a withdrawal from Afghanistan? Not much, I predict; they’re pretty split already. And if he cuts the budget by withdrawing from Iraq and Afghanistan, the pressure to cut domestic spending is reduced. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Omnes Omnibus
@danimal:
I hope so, I really do,
g
The tweek is just a grab-bag of Luntzian (thank you, danimal for the adjective) non-sequiters and falsehoods.
As so many have pointed out, showing the photo is no deterrance, and probably would have the opposite effect.
No pussy-footing – what is she referring to? Obama wasn’t pussy-footing with the action, and he’s not pussy-footing now, he made a decision – so she’s denouncing his decision by saying he didn’t make a decision?
No politicking – well who’s doing that?
No drama – huh? What is she talking about?
What’s a part of the mission – showing the photos? WTF?
Maybe her tweets are composed from whatever editing cuts remain on the clipboard. That’s how much sense they make.
Emma
Lonesomerobot: it was NOT improvised, though. They obviously thought about it. No country wanted the body because nobody wants to become the site of the shrine of the terrorist martyr. Bringing him to the US would probably get them all kinds of political fallout, plus demands from the usual morons to exhibit the body, and NOT ON AMERICAN SOIL, and YOU’RE BRINGING HIM HERE TO HONOR HIM, YOU MUSLIM YOU.
So, what do you do? You take the body and bury him at sea. Believe it or not, in spite of “some clerics,” it does not actually violate Islamic tradition quite as bad as some of the other options, if at all. You make sure the ceremony is absolutely, completely, one hundred percent Islamic and it’s done.
MikeJ
@danimal: There’s not a lot left to pull out of Iraq, and that’s already scheduled anyway.
lonesomerobot
@Omnes Omnibus: I personally don’t think there has been a violation of international law. But how is it irresponsible to state that others might suggest it, or pursue it? Others are now suggesting it, so there is no wild speculation necessary. Therefore it would be reasonable to believe that the topic may have come up with the president’s advisors before the operation occurred, and the truth is that we will probably never know what, if any, parts of the operation or its aftermath were enacted in a way to take into consideration any particular legal concerns.
I understand legal standing has its restrictions, but I also know that won’t stop people from trying.
MikeJ
@lonesomerobot:
Only trolls like you and the retarded. But I repeat myself.
lonesomerobot
@Omnes Omnibus: I agree, but my point is that sometimes these legal advisors go to dark (and perhaps crazy) places when it comes to predicting hypothetical legal outcomes. It really had nothing to do with the jurisdiction.
slightly_peeved
@freelancer:
Shooting people in the face? They should have just named it Operation Dick Cheney.
Thankyou, I’m here all week.
Emma
Lonesomerobot: This is WAGging on your part.You don’t know what the legal advisors recommended, you only know the outcome. And several people have tried to explain to you, the issue of violation of international law is not an issue at all. Whatever anyone wants to speculate about it is their problem; we don’t have to give them credibility.
Omnes Omnibus
@lonesomerobot: If your original question was did the President talk to lawyers befor ordering this, I am sure the answer is yes. If the question was what did he ask them and what did they say, the answer is we will never know. He won’t say, and they can’t say. If you are actually concerned about the President’s legal jeopardy in any international court for his action, don’t be. If you are a concern troll, please stop.
lonesomerobot
@MikeJ: Classy. Anyway, I do visit this site daily, although I don’t comment that often (or at least not often enough to gain your ringing endorsement, which I would cherish so very much; it’s your obvious wit and eloquence that won me over).
And it’s great how your response actually misses the point entirely. I don’t care if it’s “the retarded” that are suggesting it. Earlier it was said that nobody was suggesting it. And now it’s not only being suggested, it’s being used as a point of attack against the administration.
I wonder if there is an advisor to the president who suggested that the president could have enemies that might claim the operation was illegal, and in response the advisor was called retarded. One can only hope those are the kind of adults that are running this country.
lonesomerobot
@Emma: I totally agree.
lonesomerobot
@Omnes Omnibus: You just said pretty much exactly what I just said — we’ll never know what extent any legal calculations might have played in the operation. I basically had questions but unfortunately my first comment was a really bad way to get out of the gate. For anyone who hasn’t already seen my apology for that, I’m sorry.
I think my gist here is to marvel at what a stupidly complex legal landscape Bush created for anyone who ends up in the White House. What we might have thought of as crazy a few years ago is now unfortunately on the table.
Omnes Omnibus
@lonesomerobot: I would say think things through before you post in the future, but this is Balloon Juice.
SoINeedAName
I’m sorry, but all I heard was
Studly Pantload, now with enhanced schmuckosity
Shorter Zombie Palin: Mmmm, brains!
tatere
i believe the only appropriate response to that tweet is “pah pah pah pah rrrrrrruckertakah uh”
(see http://youtu.be/c9o37xaFUVI)
Bruce S
Not that there are still questions, but this person is a total fucking idiot. Shut up, babygirl!
Frank W.
Palin is so foolish… Does she not think a death photo would be quite dramatic? (She tweets that she wants no “drama”….) Does she think that would-be terrorists are really on the fence about things and that one or two gruesome photos would send them back into the light and away from violence? Oh, and she’s so definitely not politicking here, is she?
And what the hell is she looking at in her irksome Twitter photograph? Is there some American flag waving over a stuffed polar bear and a bowl of Cheetos?
Elie
@freelancer:
Ya know, I was initially a little offended too when the initial context was that OBL was given that name, but with the clarification that his capture was given that name, I am somewhat reassured.
Still, couldnt they have come up with a better name for the operation? How about KKK, or Hitler? Sure grabs the attention. Also, poor Geronimo was a hunted man and was seen as exactly the same kind of outlaw as Bin Laden at that time. All in all a very unfortunate name… a whole lot of other names — how about “Dick”, would have been better
Davis X. Machina
@Emma: Hard to imagine the culture that produced Sinbad, and that owned the seas from Mombasa to Macao for a millenium, not having some tradition of burial at sea….
Elie
@slightly_peeved:
I am totally down with that.
Gozer
I’m sorry, but I have to say that this is pretty much how I’m feeling about this whole ordeal.
Let us think no more about this horrible man.
Gozer +6
JCT
@Davis X. Machina: Actually, when there is no possibility of being buried on land it is permissible. Supposedly it goes back to when folks making their haj usually traveled by boat and would die on the journey.
AxelFoley
Heh, she said “pussy”.
AxelFoley
@benjoya:
Damn, beat me to it.
xaaronx
Man, dipping below the crazification factor: that’s kinda impressive.
Steeplejack
@Dan:
The proper (veterinary) term is “footscray.” I learned that from Australian rules football. Go figure.
Steeplejack
@Martin:
Heh. Win.
Studly Pantload, now with enhanced schmuckosity
@Martin:
Brilliant, sir.
LanceThruster
@slightly_peeved: Bravo! Bra-VO!!!