So I was watched a bit of the John Birch Society sponsored Republican Debate in South Carolina. The competition to earn approval from the 27% fringe that controls the party’s base was really something to see. This word seemed to best describe it:
The event was live blogged here and here and over here (last link added on a tip from beergoggles–thanks for that). Word is that Herman Cain was the winner.
How long can Cain hold the lead? Especially when the star-powered nut jobs enter the race. Just imagine how they will turn the volume up to 11 during the rest of the campaign the race to the bottom. There is so far to fall and so much damage to do on their way down.
How does anybody pretend that any of these people are credible about anything?
And with that let’s have an Open Thread.
Cheers
kerFuFFler
Serenity now, serenity now.
Linda Featheringill
Herman Cain is interesting.
I didn’t see the debate but I have seen clips of him speaking. He seems to be intelligent and sane. He also is very conservative.
And yes, he’s quite black.
What the Repubs will do with him, I don’t know.
Ghanima Atreides
The Wingularity is Near.
Irving
…Herman Cain thinks we should go back to the gold standard, which more or less summarizes the quality of his political thinking.
Dennis G.
@Linda Featheringill:
His being black is pretty much a disqualification in the GOP. Cain will never win the White Supremacy Primary of the Party, but he will help pump it up.
The 27 percenters will never accept him.
JCT
It’s the ultimate litmus test of the “we’re NOT racists” brigade – Obama vs Cain.
More seriously, these guys come across as loser nutcases to us, but as Dennis points out, we’re not the audience. Can you imagine such a rogue’s gallery being taken seriously 15 years ago?
Ah, “progress”.
cmorenc
It isn’t just that so many of the entrants into the GOP race are howling loons, what’s really sad is how it consistently, malignantly sends any once-reasonable, rational, moderate person who enters into a malignant descent into batshit insanity, and turns them into a viciously callous hypocrite along the way.
I can remember a decade or so ago when Mitt Romney was fairly progressive for a Republican. Tim Pawlenty used to be at least sort of moderate, and not that long ago…now look at him. Something about harboring ambitions to win the GOP Presidential nomination brings out not only the worst in people’s human nature, but undermines their very sanity.
Ash Can
No one who willingly appears at a public debate sponsored by the John Birch Society is going to have anything worthwhile to say.
TooManyPaulWs
The key point here is that Cain is best known as CEO of the 5th or 6th largest pizza chain in the country… or is that 15th or 16th? I haven’t checked GaleNet’s business reference lately.
The key point is that the Republicans are eager to force ANOTHER “CEO” President on us. After, let’s see, Herbert Hoover and George W. Bush. Oh yeah, great economic track records there.
Chyron HR
Rob the Republican: Haw! We’ll nominate a black guy, and then the DEMOCRATS will look racist when they don’t vote for him!
Don the Republican: Yeah! That’ll show them!
Rob: So, uh, you going to vote for him in the primaries?
Don: Fuck no, I’m not voting for no n****r.
JCT
@Ash Can: I have a feeling that most folks don’t know (or remember) what the John Birch Society actually stands for…
Max Power
Who the hell is Herman Cain?
MonkeyBoy
Isn’t the right wing 27% embracing Herman Cain sort of like being so desperate that they are recruiting the Anti Christ for their fight against Liberals/Communists.
Jeez, his name is “Herman Cain” and he exhibits the Mark of Cain.
Also too, “Herman” means army man, so it appears they are appealing to the army of Satan.
Michael D.
We need to see Cain’s birth certificate.
Hal
@cmorenc
My question with Romney has always been: Is he a conservative pretending to be a moderate when it suits him (running for Governor of MA), or a moderate/liberal pretending to be conservative in order to run for President?
I’m guessing that will always be his problem with the party base. They don’t trust him because of his past deeds, they don’t like his religion, and he’ll have to spend the entire campaign fighting back against You Tube videos of him endorsing civil unions, healthcare reform, and support for abortion rights. I can’t imagine him successfully overcoming any of that in the GOP.
JCT
@cmorenc:
The best part is that will get worse as all of these clowns “debate” each other, this race to prove who is the “biggest and most pure” Teabagging Obama-trouncing superhero will degenerate quickly. By the end they will probably be dropping n-bombs and trying to show who will drop the most real bombs on the Muslims. Can’t wait to see who is left standing.
@Hal
Have you seen his performances lately? I am beginning to suspect he doesn’t know what he actually stands for any more. He just seems like a confused puppet.
Omnes Omnibus
Did anyone watch this trainwreck?* Is there a difference between the Oath Keepers and the Promise Keepers?
*Trainwreck status not intended to be a factual statement. All rights reserved. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. See your local retailer for details.
BGK
Since this is an open thread…
Sophia astonishes me with how quickly she’s recovering from her bladder stone removal surgery. I expected to find a groggy and disoriented kitty when I picked her up at 6 on Tuesday, but she was wide awake and not happy with being in her carrier. The vet shaved rather more of Sophia’s abdomen than I expected (Sophia’s a Maine Coon with ample tummy floof, so the change is shocking), but the incision was considerably smaller. The vet stitched it inside-out, somehow, and it looks like excellent work. Sophia shows no sign of licking it, so no cone for her.
When she got home, she demolished the food I gave her and was really unhappy at being isolated. She pawed at the door to get out, repeatedly, during the night. By yesterday morning she was jumping on the furniture again, so I let her mix with the other cats, and the reunion was uneventful. I have her isolated while I’m at work, as she and Rizzo are prone to repeated wrestling matches wherein they kick the stuffing out of each other (I can tell by the trail of fur across my carpets when they’ve been at it), and it’s too soon for that. I foresee no problem with not locking her up tonight.
Also, too, since I missed the gardening open thread: I made the homemade Earthboxes (as they were known then) five years ago and had a tomato explosion. My problems were twofold: I didn’t put up trellises until the plants were setting fruit, so I’m sure I lost yield as a result, and, while Florida winters are ideal weather for tomatoes, we have Biblical plagues of insects and various creeping cruds. Leaf mites, hornworms, caterpillars, blight, and so on put a dent in my production. Still, I had enough Roma tomatoes for a freezer-full of sauce, and enough slicing tomatoes to give them away freely.
PurpleGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: I believe the Oath Keepers are a group of ex-military men who pledge themselves to fight government tyranny. The main thing is the ex-military nature of the membership.
Ash Can
@JCT: And to think that 38 years ago the John Birch Society and all its attendant idiocy was being lampooned by country/southern icon Charlie Daniels on Top 40 radio. That alone shows how far this nation’s public discourse has fallen.
Omnes Omnibus
@PurpleGirl: Lovely.
roshan
Would the media, at least now after having seen the proof, label the GOP as the party of crazies? What more evidence does anyone need?
Mark S.
From dKos:
And it was pretty gallant of Pawlenty to refuse to criticize Romney because Mittens wasn’t there. WTF? And ED Kain favorite Gary Johnson thinks repealing the corporate tax “will literally create tens of millions of jobs overnight.” Ron Paul’s the best of the bunch, and he wants to go back to the fucking gold standard.
beergoggles
The Gawker coverage of the debate was better than either of those links: http://gawker.com/#!5799164/live-coverage-of-the-first-republican-presidential-debate
MattF
Yeah, I was betting on Cain. He’s entirely wacko, but he had the personal energy and force to start from zero and succeed big time. The others are all professional politicians.
Disgruntled Lurker
Hmmm…. According to the Think Progress link, there was a pre-debate rally sponsored by the Birchers. The debate itself, not so much.
That seems like an important difference to me.
Hawes
In all seriousness. Last night’s debate really was good news for John McCain.
He looks like Teddy Roosevelt by comparison.
debit
I scrolled down Weigel’s page here and had to look away. Good god, the answers, the interviews, the crazy. OTOH, I’m glad to see that rat face Timmeh is still finding no love.
Ryan
I’m living in Austria right now and wasn’t able to see the debate. Can someone tell me: Did any of the candidates wear actual clown shoes?
Rihilism
OT, but open thread, so, are we going to talk about the bravery and seriousness of the congressional republican’s Medicare “fix” now that they have bravely and seriously dropped it in response to some, in my opinion, relatively minor push-back? So much for principle, huh? Perhaps Sullivan can explain to us why these brave souls were victims of a vicious campaign and were required to retreat in order to fight for their principles at some later unspecified date…
PurpleGirl
@roshan: No, they won’t remark on the crazy nature of the GOP because their corporate bosses want the GOP to win. The corporate bosses think they can control the crazies… you know when else corporate leaders thought they could control the crazies.
(Yes, I’m godwinning the thread.)
BGK
@debit:
For some likely childish reason, reading this
made me fall off the chair with laughter.
The Republic of Stupidity
@Hawes:
And if I’m not mistaken, he’s roughly the same age as Roosevelt too…
4jkb4ia
Slate: Cats of War Kevin Drum tweeted this silliness, too.
Omnes Omnibus
@BGK: Newell live blog was pretty good. I feel that I got a real sense of what happened without going through the pain of actually watching it.
Does anyone think that this debate mattered? Are any of these people actually viable candidates for the nomination? If so, which sign of the Apocalypse was this?
kay
@Mark S.:
Pawlenty isn’t going to attack Romney because both Pawlenty and Romney are vulnerable (“lying about”) their positions on climate change.
Romney is slightly more vulnerable than Pawlenty, because Romney actually put forth a climate change PLAN in Massachusetts, complete with principled statements on urgency, etc.
Does it matter, though? The list of GOP liars on climate change is so long. It includes their last nominee, John McCain.
Romney had tons of big money donors from the finance sector in 2008, and he’ll have more in 2012. They’re his actual base. Honestly, though, I don’t see any difference for them if a Daniels or a Johnson or a Pawlenty wins. It’s all cut taxes and deregulate, and that’s all they’re interested in.
debit
@BGK: My response was more bemused than anything else. I mean, when I think meat packers, I think of The Jungle and how everything Timmeh stands for will put us right back to eating rotted and diseased meat spiced with floor sweepings in our sausages.
alwhite
@PurpleGirl:
I have mentioned this little fact to people many times when the topic comes up. Hitler and his boys were supposed to be the bulwark against the commies, soshalists and unions. The big money boys were sure they could control the crazies once they took over. Yeah, that worked out really well for them & I think the Koch whores will reap the same whirlwind if the succeed.
Mark S.
The Economist is shocked at how stupid Paul Ryan is. Hippie economist has more.
debit
Wow, I do not have permission to edit my own comment. FYWP. I was also sickened when he raised his hand in response to “would you bring back torture?” Weasley, little rat fuck son of a bitch.
roshan
Someone elsewhere on the interwebs said that the debate had “Pawlenty of stupid”.
Mark S.
@kay:
I wonder if T-Paw is hoping for a VP nomination. It made millions for Sarah.
kay
@roshan: @roshan:
Do we need both a Pawlenty and a Romney?
We can combine those two candidates, in the interest of efficiency. Pawlenty can endorse his identical twin, Romney, right now, and we can save a lot of time.
Chris
From the first link
Is the Pope Catholic?
Does a bear shit in the woods?
Does the sun rise in the east?
Could switching to Geico really save you 15% or more on car insurance?
p.a.
@Chyron HR: The 27% is defined as crazy, not racist. The 27% figure derives from Alan Keys’ vote percentage against Obama in his senate race. Of course, this is South Carolina we’re talking about here, so maybe the Venn diagram of S.C crazy/racist is made up of one circle.
debit
@kay: Actually, they differ in one major area; Romney was part of a process to ensure everyone in his state had access to health care. Pawlenty was part of a process that kicked people off.
Chris
@Hal:
He’s a politician trying to get into office. So he’ll be whoever the person whose vote he’s trying to win wants him to be.
kay
@Mark S.:
Reading parts of the transcript made me laugh a little, because Pawlenty is the “lunch bucket” Romney, I guess, what with Pawlenty’s proximity to meat packing and all.
The next open presidential race Democrats and liberals should do this. Hold a fake-debate with a friendly moderator. It’s just pure free advertising of The Dogma.
DanF
@JCT: “Can you imagine such a rogue’s gallery being taken seriously 15 years ago?”
I find myself screaming at NPR a lot these days. This morning they had a two-line piece that went something like: “The Republicans have put Obama on notice that they will not approve the head of the new consumer credit protection agency [or whatever it’s called] unless the law is severely weakened. They said no one person should have unfettered power.” And that was it. Fuck me. One person with unfettered power is often a bad thing. How about telling me if it’s actually fucking true? Guess what? It isn’t fucking true. Way to carry the water assholes.
Dennis G.
@Ryan: Only two of them.
Chris
@alwhite:
Yep. I also have made this argument often.
kay
@debit:
I think for-profit health care and health insurance interests are really entrenched and powerful but I think we might find out they’re amateurs in comparison to energy interests. We didn’t find out, because climate change legislation failed and the process was eclipsed by health care, but we will. Pawlenty looked terrified when he had to defend on climate change.
Dennis G.
@roshan: That is good.
suzanne
@Mark S.:
I think this is actually the plan for the intelligent ones. Be a VP on a losing ticket; they can blame the loss on the presidential nominee while enjoying a high profile. Jon Kyl was breathtakingly straight-up about wanting this.
4tehlulz
What’s the over/under on how many of these people will vote for Cain in the privacy of the voting booth?
I’ll set it at 2-1/2 and take the under.
geg6
This is completely OT, but can I just say that I think this discussion is worthy of its own thread?
http://www.salon.com/news/the_labor_movement/index.html?story=/opinion/walsh/politics/2011/05/06/trumka_on_new_labor_independence
IMHO, Trumka is a force to be reckoned with. If anyone can save labor and turn it back into the social and economic force it used to be, it’s him. I like his ideas, his personality, and his actions.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mark S.: Look, the Economist is written by Euroweenies for elitists and Krugman, well, we know about him, don’t we?
Chris
@kay:
Well, energy companies have an advantage in that good health care was a more important issue for most people than global warming. The former is a real, here-and-now situation that most people have to deal with, the latter seems like an abstract risk that, even among people who acknowledge it’s happening, is often seen as beyond our ability to fix anyway, or possibly entirely natural, or whatev. I don’t see the kind of broad public support for climate change legislation that I did for health insurance.
General Stuck
WASHINGTON (AP) — Employers added more than 200,000 jobs in April for the third straight month, the biggest hiring spree in five years. But the unemployment rate ticked up to 9 percent.
The Labor Department reported Friday that the economy added 244,000 jobs last month. Private employers shrugged off high gas prices and created 268,000 jobs — the most since February 2006.
The gains were widespread. Retailers, factories, financial companies, education and health care and even construction companies all added jobs. Federal, state and local governments cut jobs.
SenyorDave
Cain is a bigot, pure and simple. He said he would not appoint a Muslim to his cabinet, nor would appoint a Muslim as a federal judge.
No one is required to hire a Muslim, but if someone doesn’t get a job because they are Muslim, the hiring agent is in violation of Federal law.
He should be asked about that comment in every interview, debate, etc.
Ghanima Atreides
@kay: Pawlenty is not Romney’s twin, Huntsman is.
Mike Furlan
@DanF:
Re: NPR
We would be better off without it. Some days it seems like everybody on it is auditioning for a job at FOX. (Which is why the Republicans will never defund NPR)
Svensker
@Dennis G.:
Maybe southern ones won’t. My family 27%ers all love him — including folks in Wash State, Texas and Orange Co. CA.
Omnes Omnibus
@geg6: I think Trumka is doing a perfect job of threading the needle between supporting the party that considers labor’s interests in its decision making and pushing it in the direction labor wants it to go. People could really take a lesson from what he is doing.
jon
Coming Soon: Trump calls Cain the Affirmative Action CEO, demands to see Transcripts
keestadoll
Out of Afghanistan, decriminalization of drugs, government should be out of people’s bedrooms, torture is not who we are…where is any discussion of Ron Paul in this thread? Weird.
Montysano
I thought it was interesting that Ron Paul got big applause for his “Out of Afghanistan, now!!” statement. I suspect that this sentiment is fairly popular, even among the 27%-ers. It is not, however, popular among the Halliburton/Bechtel demographic, so in Afghanistan we shall remain.
Edit: @keestadoll: FIFY
Omnes Omnibus
@keestadoll: White supremacy, gold standard, repeal New Deal and Great Society…. these are the other side of the Ron Paul coin. Also too, he isn’t going to win and he isn’t as fun for the pointing and laughing.
kay
@Ghanima Atreides:
Oh, why, pray tell? Because they’re both Mormons? I don’t care that they’re Mormons.
I think their base cares, but that’s their problem. I can’t imagine being a minority-anything and belonging to the Republican Party. It’s insane to me.
From a purely political standpoint I think that helps them in certain western states. It might be an interesting map. South and certain voter segments of the west, along with reliable wingnut states. Romney probably has a spreadsheet already.
kay
@Ghanima Atreides:
I use to think minority-anything (race, religion, etc.) conservatives should come over to the other side because there’s plenty of conservative-leaning Democrats.
Now I want them to stay over there, because there’s plenty of conservative Democrats. To many. We don’t need anymore. We’re about at our limit :)
geg6
@Disgruntled Lurker:
Does it really matter if it’s the pre-rally in the very same venue as the debate or the actual debate? Seems that Oath Keepers and the John Birch Society were in full campaign gear with booths at the venue, with FOXNews sponsoring the actual debate. I really don’t see any daylight between the pre-rally and the debate. I’m sure FOX had some control over who got to put up booths in the venue they paid for and they were happy to provide the space to a racist group and a traitorous paramilitary group.
geg6
@keestadoll:
You mean racist goldbug Ron Paul? When he’s the sanest one in the room, it’s a bad, bad night.
Chris
@SenyorDave:
I’d never heard of Herman Cain before today, but I have a feeling that black or otherwise minority Republicans feel a need to double down on the bigotry towards other groups (Muslims, obviously, are the current favorite target) in order to win the approval of their peers within the movement. That piece of shit Allen West is another example.
Yeah, sure, I’m not a Real American, but at least I’m not one of these people, and at least I’m not an apologist for them. Can’t we all get together and agree that whatever our differences, we all hate those guys?
keestadoll
@geg6: on the gold thing–I dunno, I’m for abolishing currency and going to a planetary barter system, short of that, I don’t see why it’s so bad to base currency on something concrete and not imaginary. Also, am doing some digging on his racism and so far I’m not seeing enough to convince me that he’s racist. A little help there would be nice.
Omnes Omnibus
@keestadoll:Basically, a gold based currency would collapse the world economy. As far as the racism goes, Paul has a long association with white supremacist publications. Google it a little and you should see.
Roger Moore
@keestadoll:
The big problem with the gold standard is that it decouples the money supply from the needs of the economy. Instead, the money supply expands only at the rate people can find and mine gold. If that rate is less than the natural rate of growth of the economy- which it has tended to be- you wind up with mild deflation. That strangles the potential growth and benefits rich creditors at the expense of poor debtors. That mild deflation is then punctuated with brief spurts of massive inflation whenever there’s a major gold strike. Do we really want to turn our economy over to that?
WereBear
Are you for real?
We have a planetary barter system. It’s called currency.
Omnes Omnibus
@WereBear: Wait, so you are telling me that, if I have these 17 chickens and I want to trade them for your goat (I assure you that I am not Mickey Kaus or that guy from WV), I would not actually need to mail you the chickens? We could some chose a notional measure of value, let’s call it a dollar or a euro, and have it serve as a medium of exchange, is that right? You say this would be more convenient and cleaner than carrying around a sack full of chickens? Intriguing idea.
WereBear
@Omnes Omnibus: Now, you will need the chickens, but only if you go to the doctor in Wingnutville.
Omnes Omnibus
@WereBear: Boy, this is complicated. When do I get my goat?
JCT
@Omnes Omnibus:
Awesome.
Mark S.
@keestadoll:
Here you go. I doubt Paul had no idea what was being written in his newsletter. If he really didn’t, that would be political malpractice.
WereBear
@Omnes Omnibus: As soon as the UPS man finishes his 47 bowls of oxtail soup.
Triassic Sands
Jeebus, Nigel, pay attention, the GOP amp’s volume dial begins at 11.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@keestadoll:
Have you really thought through what the consequences of this would be?
Seems like this would require de-urbanization on a massive scale since there are huge (i.e. multiple orders of magnitude) differences in the granularity of the goods and services which people in cities produce and consume. What am I supposed to barter with in order to get a new car, when my old one dies? In what way is this different from sending people back to the land, only more gently via monetary policy rather than using the methods of the Khmer Rouge?
I really can’t think of anything much more anti-conservative than this let’s totally destroy contemporary society and start over again kind of social-engineering project you are talking about. Or are you supporting the idea of being rid of currency from a Far Left perspective, like some of the Communists wanted to do?
Hal
A conservative Facebook “friend” of mine is already on the Cain bandwagon. Real solutions for America! I was listening to a piece of this debate today on the way to work, and Cain was saying the typical “Government doesn’t create jobs, the private sector does!!”
And by jobs, I think he means a minimum wage pizza hawker at Godfathers.
Was also very happy to hear the crowds enthusiam when Santorum vigoursly defended the culture wars, cause we all know that’s a winning issue with under 55 crowd now a days.
Omnes Omnibus
@Hal: I have a couple of Paultards in my FB circle, but that is about it. I am waiting to see where my wingnut, gun crazed cousin in AZ goes. I am sure it will be a sign of who is the craziest of them all.
les
@Omnes Omnibus:
I strongly urge you to hang on to those chickens for a bit; in a couple of months when my melons come in, I’ll make you a hell of a deal.
Omnes Omnibus
@les: Great, now we are inventing a futures market.
les
@Omnes Omnibus:
god willin’ and the chickens don’t die.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’ve got a basket of mangoes that I got from God only knows where some time back. The ones at the bottom of the basket are squashed and probably all moldy (there’s some nasty smelling ooze leaking out of the bottom of the basket, FYI), but I’d be happy to barter a mezzanine tranch of the ones from the middle of the basket that are merely soft and squishy. I’m sure you won’t get sick from eating them, as I ate one from the top of the pile and look at me! Fit as a fiddle!
Bubblegum Tate
The wingers I’ve seen love Cain, but they don’t think he’s a viable candidate. His primary usefulness to them is that he allows them to say, “See? Black people love us!”
billy rae valentine
after reading the link on ron paul’s racist ties, i find him proven NOT to be a racist, but complicit in pandering to racists and also homophobes.
herman cain IS racist. his stance on never hiring Muslims is not defensible and is a deal-breaker for me.
those 2 are actually 2 of my favorite republican candidates.
billy rae valentine
@Bubblegum Tate:
i agree 100%. that’s his main utility. they can go to huffington post and flame the “libs” there. they think that when they like Cain it hurts us and exposes us as the true racists who also only voted for Obama because he’s half-black whereas THEY vote for rational reasons. so he’s a tool to help them look better than us.
Ruckus
The stunning number of people who have no clue how modern societies exist and operate floor me. Not that they need to understand every intricate detail it’s that they just seem to lack any overview whatsoever. Along with the lack of a view of history from a practical perspective.
They seem to want to go back to a time when everyone scratched out an existence from the ground, lived in little more than huts and quite a number of their kids died before puberty. It’s such an appealing concept.
Yes money may be the root of all evil. It is also the root of a modern society. That doesn’t make the argument for removing money, it makes the argument for removing evil. Not that that will ever happen but at least that should be the goal. What we have now is exactly the opposite.
keestadoll
@all of you: I love this blog. And as for a global barter system, ok, points made and I get it, but let me give you a microcosmic example for my pov on this. Where I live there is a strong locally-grown/made/service thought process. It is not strange at all for an electrician to provide his service to his county neighbor for the trade of having the “servicee” provide a side of beef from a cow raised on his farm. Variations on this practice happen all the time here, especially now that the dollar really doesn’t get you very far. It is not by any stretch the norm, but it does happen quite often and all who do it seem quite pleased with it. I don’t think therefore that is throwback or whimsical thinking to wonder how such things could work at larger levels. Anyway, food for thought and have a fabulous weekend!
john f
@Roger Moore: There is also the issue of the “melt” value of the gold, at certain times, exceeding the mint value of the coin. People begin to destroy the currency by melting the coins for the gold content, causing even less currency to circulate for the needs of the economy.
Barb (formerly Gex)
Can’t bear to watch it. Did they all prove their cred by hating on Obama or hating on gays? Iowa seemed to be all about who can hate on gays the hardest, and the whole GOP field seems to be amping up their gay hating for the race.
Anoniminous
If you’re a magpie a Gold Standard makes sense. It’s nice and shiny and you can fondle it in one hand while doing something else with the other.
To anyone with a brain …
Chris
@billy rae valentine:
Not a racist, just a bigot. No evidence that he discriminates on grounds of race or national origin, just religion.
(I’m not disagreeing with the sentiment at all, just don’t want you to put that up and then get a smartass “ISLAM isn’t a RACE my GOD you people are SO STUPID!” response from some asshole).
Ruckus
@keestadoll:
Being able or willing to barter is not the problem. Making everyone barter for everything is. It is unworkable when the system grows past a small number of people. Especially when not all of those people can produce things that most others need. We do a lot of busy work in the world that supplies things that we don’t need for survival. A web designer may have great skills but without a monetary system he/she is not going to get a lot of food on the table. All the people with food are trading food for things they need. How many websites do they need?
The world has outgrown having barter as the only means of worth exchange.