Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Accountability, motherfuckers.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

Whoever he was, that guy was nuts.

A last alliance of elves and men. also pet photos.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

You cannot shame the shameless.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Tick tock motherfuckers!

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

We are builders in a constant struggle with destroyers. let’s win this.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

I did not have this on my fuck 2022 bingo card.

You are here: Home / History is bunk

History is bunk

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Bieber damn does Matt Bai try too hard sometimes (via). It’s not just the pointless pseudo-intellectualizing, it’s the half-assed numerology.

In particular, Mr. Gingrich is a devotee of the historian Arnold J. Toynbee, who meditated on the concept of “departure and return” — the idea that great leaders have to leave (or be banished from) their kingdoms before they can better themselves and return as conquering heroes. One of Newt’s heroes, the French general and statesman Charles de Gaulle, embodies just this kind of romantic narrative, having spent 12 years out of power before returning to lead his country. So does Ronald Reagan, who traveled the country after losing his bid for the Republican nomination in 1976, then came roaring back to win it all four years later.

Like Mr. de Gaulle, Mr. Gingrich has been out of power for about 12 years. And if elected president, Mr. Gingrich, like Mr. Reagan, would be 69 when taking the oath of office. (Mr. de Gaulle was 68.) Coincidence? It might seem that way, but I’m guessing he sees something more portentous in the parallels.

Reader Interactions

171Comments

  1. 1.

    Spaghetti Lee

    One of Newt’s heroes, the French general and statesman Charles de Gaulle, embodies just this kind of romantic narrative, having spent 12 years out of power before returning to lead his country. So does Ronald Reagan, who traveled the country after losing his bid for the Republican nomination in 1976, then came roaring back to win it all four years later.

    So did Simba from The Lion King.

  3. 3.

    Mark S.

    Jesus, if there’s one person Newt doesn’t remind me of it’s Charles de Gaulle.

    And wouldn’t Nixon be a much better example of spending time in the wilderness than Reagan? That’s just shitty history.

  4. 4.

    Spaghetti Lee

    Difference, of course, before someone takes offense, being that Simba had far more moral fiber than Gingrich ever will.

  5. 5.

    cleek

    great leaders have to leave (or be banished from) their kingdoms before they can better themselves

    any evidence that Newt has “bettered” himself ?

    no ?

    guess that theory’s right out, then.

  6. 6.

    Mike Kay (Ding-Dong-Broder's Dead)

    So Matt Bai performs the first corporate media blow job on Newt.

  7. 7.

    dmsilev

    Yes, but (a) de Gaulle was French, and (b) de Gaulle married only once, and said marriage lasted until he died nearly 50 years later. So, Not Gingrich.

  10. 10.

    Bob Loblaw

    There is no joke I could make that’s funnier than what was already excerpted. It’s impossible.

  11. 11.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    And so did Hitler. And then we have the ultimate time-in-the-wilderness taker, Voldemort.

  12. 12.

    Emma

    The only thing I enjoyed about reading that thing is the thumping that dimwit is getting in comments.

  13. 13.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Gingrich reminds me more of all the folks that went into the wilderness and never came out.

  15. 15.

    Suffern ACE

    Well, you’ve got unemployment benefits for 99 weeks because 100 or 104 would be harmful and a serious debate over whether 19, 20, or 21 percent of GDP should be the predetermined upper bound of the size of the government before automatic destablizers kick in…no reason for any of those numbers. Belief in magic numbers is very much a part of our post-enlightenment elite. Toynbee probably predicted that somewhere in his theory of the decline of civilizations, and he probably dreamt that a guy like Newt would be a part of it all.

  16. 16.

    Mike Kay (Ding-Dong-Broder's Dead)

    Newt has been called many things. The “next ronald reagan” has never been one of them.

  21. 21.

    JonF

    I must have missed when CDG or Reagan were effectively pushed out in palace coups like newt was lol.

  24. 24.

    Gravenstone

    I’m guessing he sees something more portentous in the parallels.

    The only thing Neuter sees is dollar signs. Period. Full. Stop.

  28. 28.

    cbear

    In a just world, Newt’s trip into the “wilderness” would end in an ill-fated encounter with the Donner Party.

  30. 30.

    Bob Loblaw

    @cleek:

    Oh noez, the results of this online poll give me nothing to complain about. Let me complain about them anyway.

  31. 31.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Bob Loblaw:

    Oh noez, the results of this online poll give me nothing to complain about. Let me complain about them anyway.

    Exactly. Either way, ya get to be resentful of someone. It’s like a win-win.

  32. 32.

    srv

    Maybe Gingrich is the 12th Imam.

    He was born in 869. I bet if you add up Ronnie’s, de Gaulles, Hitlers and the G-mans b-days, you would come up with something very, very interesting.

  33. 33.

    zach

    I’m glad Gingrich is running. I’m sure that the moderators in the GOP debates will question why he repeatedly called Sonia Sotomayor a racist, whether he still frets about Obama’s Kenyan world-view, and why he’s decided it’s a good use of his time as a statesman to write a novel’s worth of Amazon.com book reviews.

  34. 34.

    mclaren

    There’s a slight difference between Charles de Gaulle and Newt Gingrich:

    Gingrich is batshit insane.

  35. 35.

    Delia

    Ed’s online polls are always lame. But not as lame as Newtie’s ever-mutating intellectual pretensions. I predict his name will eventually set the gold standard for lameness.

  36. 36.

    Mike Kay (Ding-Dong-Broder's Dead)

    I’m fascinated by the elements of the left who want to see bin laden’s death photo. Of all people, you would think they would be above death porn.

    And before someone says it’s about transparency, that’s false. No one has ever called for the release of Michael Jackson’s autopsy photos in the name of transparency. People simply accepted the corner’s autopsy results and death certificate.

  37. 37.

    James E. Powell

    And if elected president, Mr. Gingrich, like Mr. Reagan, would be 69 when taking the oath of office. (Mr. de Gaulle was 68.)

    In a talk on education and creativity, Sir Ken Robinson noted that he and Eric Clapton had each received his first guitar at the same age.

  40. 40.

    Warren Terra

    In particular, Mr. Gingrich is a devotee of the historian Arnold J. Toynbee, who meditated on the concept of “departure and return” — the idea that great leaders have to leave (or be banished from) their kingdoms before they can better themselves and return as conquering heroes.

    I’ve not previously encountered this theory, and I’m quite befuddled as to whom he could be referring. I can think of a few good examples of people who underwent internal or external exile and emerged as excellent or at least interesting leaders for it (Gandhi, Mandela, Lenin) – but none of those had power before the departure. I’m not terribly knowledgeable about De Gaulle, but unless there’s some interregnum in his Presidency that I’m not aware of, he also didn’t have power before his exile. And the classic examples of exile in British history are hardly shining lights (Richard III, the Stuart monarchs).

    Others I can think had power before their departure but returned as farce or at least as pale shadows (Churchill, for example), as tragedies or disasters (Nixon, arguably Cheney), or unchanged (Garfield).

    Maybe it makes more sense if you’re thinking of British political history – late Gladstone, back after considerable time out of power, was a crusading giant where early Gladstone was far less interesting. But as a general rule, and especially as applied to American history, this ennoblement by exile idea seems a bit weak.

  41. 41.

    fhtagn

    @MagicPanda:

    Well, he had kinda sorta been hiding from the American people and the IRS for about a decade. Not in Afghanistan, admittedly.

  43. 43.

    Doug Harlan J

    @Mike Kay (Ding-Dong-Broder’s Dead):

    I’m fascinated by the elements of the left who want to see bin laden’s death photo. Of all people, you would think they would be above death porn.

    Who are you referring to? I haven’t seen much talk of this, but I no longer haunt the same old places.

  44. 44.

    srv

    @dmsilev: But how many mistresses did de Gaulle have?

    Maybe a Gingrich election would allow us to move on to a new way of thinking about fidelity – for Republicans Only of course.

    Remember, Newt was only a philanderer because of the toll of his extreme patriotism.

  45. 45.

    MagicPanda

    BTW, when you talk about pointless intellectualizing, you have to realize that Bai is writing for the people who read the NYT (myself included). The whole point of the NYT is not necessarily to inform people, but to make them feel like smart, worldly people.

    So all the pseudo-intellectualizing is part of the NYT value prop.

  46. 46.

    Uloborus

    @Mike Kay (Ding-Dong-Broder’s Dead):
    I haven’t either, but assuming I just missed it, would it be a surprise? A belief that the government is always lying to you is very strong in the farther reaches of the Left. Rather than wanting to see the picture, the motivation would be ‘Nuh uh, Obama must have made it up!’

    I really can’t tell you how widespread this desire is, but that line of reasoning would make it quite explainable.

  47. 47.

    Mike Kay (Ding-Dong-Broder's Dead)

    @MagicPanda:

    Michael Jackson wasn’t a mysterious figure who has been hiding

    you do realize how funny that sounds.

    but I give you another example. No one asked to see Howard Hughes’ autopsy photos. And yes, he was a mysterious figure who hid from everyone (including the government) for decades, eventually dying in a foreign country.

  48. 48.

    Roger Moore

    @Froley:

    Less De Gaulle, more the turd that won’t go down on the first flush.

    Only because of government mandated low flow toilets. I demand toilets that use 16 gallons of water per flush, just to piss of the liberals!

  49. 49.

    Doug Harlan J

    @MagicPanda:

    The whole point of the NYT is not necessarily to inform people, but to make them feel like smart, worldly people.

    Did this piece make you feel like a smart, wordly person, though?

  50. 50.

    fhtagn

    I must confess to wondering whether a fund-raising machine with a tradition of multiple wives might be able to defeat Mitt Romney.

  51. 51.

    MagicPanda

    @Warren Terra: FWIW, I am just enough of an egotist and intellectual wanker that I can relate to Newt’s mental state.

    He is out of power, so he is fascinated by intellectuals who say that being out of power is an important step toward achieving greatness.

    If he had never been kicked out of the halls of power, he would be fascinated by other historians who talked about people who ruled benevolently for years and years in order to achieve greatness.

  52. 52.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    If Osama bin Laden had beat it before the SEALs got there, the raid wouldn’t have been such a thriller. But whether you think it was black or white, he was bad, a smooth criminal. I’m glad we moved earth to find him and now we can heal the world.

  53. 53.

    Vixen Strangely

    Unlike people who would enter the race for president to show that fundraising can now really start, Gingrich is doing it so it can really continue. I don’t think he has fully considered he degree to which he has, over the past decade that he’s not been in office, become a complete fringe-case. He might not have realized it even happened–surely, the MSM seems unaware.

    Which is why my secret inner, evil-person wants him to take…it…all…the…waaaaayyyyyyy. Because honestly, a guy who suggests taking out North Korean nukes with “”””lasers”””” is exactly the quantum-incomprehensibility machine I want sputtering next to a working 21st-century policy engine like Obama. Gingrich’s long-game in the 90’s was the Contract on for America–where definite policy ideas were laid out. To run to Obama’s far right and tickle the Religious Rights’ ivories–he has to get stupid, as in, detectably stupid. Everyone in America gets pee-tested= stupid. Secularists must die before they secularize everyones oh noes!!!!= stupid.

    He’d so lose. You can’t get that stupid, and still live. All Obama would need to do is show up and not be Newt. The yawning middle class would wake up and vote against a dumbass once they realized what all was at stake. I couldn’t live if I thought otherwise.

  54. 54.

    Martin

    @Doug Harlan J: No, there’s a pretty solid vein out there calling from it. It’s somewhat random, but one of the arguments for showing the photos is that we should see the reality of war. I agree with that, but releasing one photo in an ocean of non-war-photos accomplishes precisely the opposite. If we should see the reality of war, you end with Bin Ladens photo. You sure as fuck don’t start with it.

    The folks on the left arguing to release the photo seem to be missing that rather important point.

  55. 55.

    Ms.B

    Headed into the comments there with trepidation, but boy, howdy, are the commenters heaping ridicule on the post and Newt.

  56. 56.

    Hawes

    The problem with the “exile-return” thing is that everyone can have an “exile”. Did Lincoln’s one term in the House followed by defeat qualify as “exile”? Did Washington’s retirement after the Treaty of Paris count? Did FDR’s polio count?

    Sure, if you want them to.

    Maybe leaders need to experience hardship so that they can have a small measure of empathy?

    And maybe that’s why Gingrich fails as a candidate.

  57. 57.

    Mike Kay (Ding-Dong-Broder's Dead)

    @Doug Harlan J: I’[email protected]Doug Harlan J: Just right now Ed Schultz, John Nichols, Washington Correspondent of The Nation. Gene Robinson of WaPo. I didn’t write down a list, but over the last 7 days, progressives keep popping up on MSNBC, calling for the photos.

  60. 60.

    JCT

    @srv:

    Remember, Newt was only a philanderer because of the toll of his extreme patriotism.

    My G_d, imagine the “torment” he would suffer every time they played “Hail to the Chief” or “G_d Bless America” during a Newtie presidency.

  61. 61.

    MagicPanda

    @MagicPanda: Although in a triple back-flip sort of way, me preening about how vapid this Matt Bai article is just a way of me making myself feel smart and well-informed, right? So maybe the article is working as intended.

  63. 63.

    Hawes

    I have a small amount of sympathy for Bai and the other stenographers. Their job is conflict and competition. Fuck informing people, they want a story.

    Right now, the GOP has no one who can elevate the story, elevate the conflict. Trump did, and his 15 minutes are up.

    Blaming Bai for fellating Newt is like blaming a hooker for faking her orgasms.

  64. 64.

    fhtagn

    @MagicPanda:

    Self-panda-ing? Impressive! Now, if you could only spend 12 years in exile and rack up three gullible blondes on the way.. why, I think I know a press corps that would be willing to speculate about you for 2024…..

  65. 65.

    Kathy in St. Louis

    Christ on a crutch, does anyone know someone who is eager to see Gingrich run, other than Gingrich? I want to know what the angle is for some of these guys, who will never make the cut in the primaries and who really couldn’t get elected anyway. Do they get to keep their campaign donations? That’s all I can think of. There must be some monetary or other perk they are seeking. If it’s only ego, it must be very humbling by the end of this arduous undertaking when you find out that no one really wants you or your ideas.

    ‘Specially you, Newtie.

  66. 66.

    bkny

    read thru the comments … no one is buying this current version of newt. and they are rather emphatic in their contempt for him and his politics.

  68. 68.

    Redshift

    That’s some Grade-A wanking there.

    Somehow I’m not surprised that Gingrich’s main use for his “professor of history” background is to look for role models that tell him what a great man he is.

  69. 69.

    fhtagn

    @Kathy in St. Louis:

    Well, I stick to my belief that Newt Gingrich is Christine O’Donnell with bigger boobs and less fake virginity. It matters not whether they win or lose, but how they cash out the game.

  70. 70.

    Villago Delenda Est

    You know, a guy in Germany spent a long time in the wilderness, specifically, in a jail cell, between his first stab at power and his second successful one.

  72. 72.

    fhtagn

    @Redshift:

    The funny thing is that no professional historian has taken Toynbee seriously as an historian for many a long year.

    Just sayin’.

  74. 74.

    JCT

    @bkny: I honestly think that Newt really doesn’t have a natural constituency at all. The comments at the NYT are predictably withering, but does anyone like this guy? He could be the one who only captures the 27% .

  75. 75.

    Redshift

    @srv:

    Remember, Newt was only a philanderer because of the toll of his extreme patriotism.

    I find it just hilarious that Newt’s argument is that he only cheated on his wife and severely embarrassed his party because he was so devoted to his stressful and patriotic job, so we should elect him to the highest-stress job in public service.

  76. 76.

    MagicPanda

    @Kathy in St. Louis: When it comes to Newt’s chances.. Isn’t he like the middle of the pack in terms of being a ridiculous prospective candidate?

    Haley Barbour?
    Santorum?
    Bachmann?
    Cain?
    Trump?
    Palin?
    Pawlenty?
    Daniels?

    I mean, aside from the fact that a) he keeps leaving his wives while they lie in hospital beds, and b) he hasn’t been in elected office in years, and c) the supposed “intellectual” of the GOP keeps saying whatever crazy thing pops into his head, he’s at least a candidate that you could kind of get your head around, in terms of his life story and why he might be the right leader for the GOP.

    Newt could be the “smart” guy of the GOP. The forward-thinker. The risk-taker who engineered the takeover of the house via the Contract with America.

    I mean.. I think he’s a jerk and a reckless individual, but he doesn’t seem to me to be much more obviously bad than all the other bad candidates.

  77. 77.

    Redshift

    @JCT: The Beltway media who consider him an “idea man” and an intellectual also seem to forget that he was the last person before Bush that the Democrats successfully made into the national face of the opposition. But I guess they think a Napoleon-like stay in a wilderness (where there apparently are still TV cameras) made all that go away.

  78. 78.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    John The Baptist’s tenure in the wilderness ended with a usurper ruler serving his head on a platter.

  79. 79.

    JCT

    @MagicPanda:

    Newt could be the “smart” guy of the GOP. The forward-thinker. The risk-taker who engineered the takeover of the house via the Contract with America.
    I mean.. I think he’s a jerk and a reckless individual, but he doesn’t seem to me to be much more obviously bad than all the other bad candidates.

    The Contract on America is ancient history to today’s wingnut voters and it failed.

    I don’t think it’s a matter of him being any “worse” than any of the other circus clowns. Given that you have to be kind of nuts to vote for any of them, he doesn’t stand out in any way *except* for his considerable negatives. Many people just despise this guy — fat chance for old Newt.

    It is a frightening thing that a loser/grifter like this would even run.

  80. 80.

    Ozymandias, King of Ants

    Speaking as a historian, I can only say to Newt: Seriously? You’re going to reanimate Toynbee’s intellectual corpse? Have you read anything in the field published after, say, 1960? Where and/or when did you go to school?

    Say, has anyone seen Newt’s diploma? Or his transcripts? (Preferably long-form, of course.)

  81. 81.

    Mark S.

    @JCT:

    I honestly think that Newt really doesn’t have a natural constituency at all. The comments at the NYT are predictably withering, but does anyone like this guy?

    It’s pretty brutal over at Althouse’s as well. I found that kind of surprising.

  82. 82.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    And so did Hitler. And then we have the ultimate time-in-the-wilderness taker, Voldemort.

    And Sauron!

    There is far too little mention of the fact that Newt Gingrich is a name right out of Dickens. One wag wrote that Newt’s first act as Speaker would be to rename food stamps Gruel Stamps.

  83. 83.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Redshift:

    I find it just hilarious that Newt’s argument is that he only cheated on his wife and severely embarrassed his party because he was so devoted to his stressful and patriotic job, so we should elect him to the highest-stress job in public service.

    What’s a boy to do when his flag goes from half-mast to peak in a hot tub at the Watergate with a half dozen cute lobbyists? God bless America!

  84. 84.

    Chris

    Jesus, somebody’s high on the Gingrich drug. I can see some similarities between De Gaulle and Reagan, but to compare Gingrich with either one of them’s laughable.

    By the way, today’s Gallup poll (http://www.gallup.com/poll/147482/Gingrich-Begins-High-Recognition-Low-Positive-Intensity.aspx) was titled “Gingrich Begins With High Recognition, Low Positive Intensity.” Call me a skeptic, but that sounds like the worst combination to me: most people know him already and aren’t wild about him. Not too high you can go from there.

  85. 85.

    birthmarker

    The Contract on America is ancient history to today’s wingnut voters and it failed.

    @JCT: Thanks for pointing this out. It seems most people and of course the media are unaware that very little of it ever became the law of the land.

  86. 86.

    Martin

    Newts appeal is that he’s the party insider. That doesn’t necessarily mean that voters like him, rather that they have more confidence that he can beat Obama.

    And that’ll be the tell in this race – do they pick someone they like knowing they’ll get crushed, or do they pick someone they hate but think can win, only to later discover they get crushed? I think the likelihood that the GOP can find someone pure enough to win the primaries, broad enough to appeal in the general, and competent enough to not get crushed by Obama/DWS and the home field advantage of showing up at every campaign stop in Air Force One is pretty damn close to zero.

  87. 87.

    Redshift

    @birthmarker:

    Thanks for pointing this out. It seems most people and of course the media are unaware that very little of it ever became the law of the land.

    Ah, but the genius of it was that it actually didn’t say they were going to pass all this stuff, it just said they would bring it up for a vote. So even though almost none of it went anywhere, it was mission accomplished all the way, without even the usual technique of just lying about it.

    (At least if I’m remembering correctly.)

  88. 88.

    Mark S.

    I think the only part of the Contract for America that passed was the line-item veto that the Supreme Court struck down.

  89. 89.

    JCT

    @Redshift:

    Ah, but the genius of it was that it actually didn’t say they were going to pass all this stuff, it just said they would bring it up for a vote. So even though almost none of it went anywhere, it was mission accomplished all the way, without even the usual technique of just lying about it.

    This all sounds vaguely *familiar*.

    Meanwhile, it took me 60 comments on the NYT thread to find someone supporting Newt. With the usual blather that Newt is “brilliant” and would wipe the floor with that dumbass Obama in any debate. Yes, brilliant is exactly what I thought when Newtie was spinning like a weather vane in a Cat 5 storm over what Obama should do in Libya. Staggering.

    @Mark S.:

    I think the only part of the Contract for America that passed was the line-item veto that the Supreme Court struck down.

    This was my recollection as well. I still remember them waving it around. Reminds me of the Republican’s “alternate Health Care” bill.

  91. 91.

    mr. whipple

    It is a frightening thing that a loser/grifter like this would even run.

    He’s just grifting for his half-assed organization du jour.

  93. 93.

    Suffern ACE

    @Redshift: Apparently term limits are less popular once you are in office…kind of like “taking money from special interest groups.”

  94. 94.

    Linda Featheringill

    You know, you can wander around in the wilderness for decades and still not set foot in the Promised Land.

    But seriously folks – sometimes I think the right wing has difficulties discerning the differences between association and cause.

  96. 96.

    danimal

    I won’t read the Bai fluffer on Newt. I read the TNR fluffer (Can Newt Win?) and I regret the 5 lost minutes. If the GOP is so batshit insane that they nominate Newt, then I’m going to have to change my spiritual beliefs.

    If they nominate Newt, it can only be because Obama has cast a voodoo spell or has mastered the Dark Side of the Force. Obama’s most imposing skill is the ability to draw gawdawful opponents. Keyes? McCain? Newt? Tres impressive!

  97. 97.

    Jeffro

    I hate to say it, but the R 2012 primaries are going to bore the snot out of everyone…Pawlenty vs. Romney in a duel to see who can get Americans to switch their TVs the fastest.

    Now 2016, with Rubio and Haley, THAT’ll be quite the interesting matchup.
    Hillary and VP X should deal with them quite handily of course, but we’ll at least have a race on our hands. =)

  100. 100.

    L. Ron Obama

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    If Osama bin Laden had beat it before the SEALs got there, the raid wouldn’t have been such a thriller. But whether you think it was black or white, he was bad, a smooth criminal. I’m glad we moved earth to find him and now we can heal the world.

    Well done.

  102. 102.

    Roger Moore

    @Kathy in St. Louis:

    I want to know what the angle is for some of these guys, who will never make the cut in the primaries and who really couldn’t get elected anyway.

    I’m convinced they’re expecting to be bought out of their bids. If they manage enough delegates to matter, TPTB in the Republican party will buy them off in exchange for dropping out and promising their delegation to the anointed candidate. It’s a guaranteed trip to the wingbut gravy train.

  110. 110.

    RossInDetroit

    I’m fascinated by the elements of the left who want to see bin laden’s death photo. Of all people, you would think they would be above death porn.

    I wouldn’t think that at all. In all walks of life and all political persuasions are people who can’t recognize a terrible idea when it’s staring them in the face.

  112. 112.

    RossInDetroit

    Whatever Newt accomplishes in politics he will never be president. Name another head of state with an amphibian name. See?

  115. 115.

    MagicPanda

    @birthmarker: I think the general perception among many is that the Contract with America was successful, because it got Republicans elected, and it helped clarify what they stood for.

    This, I think, reflects a difference between how Republicans and Democrats think.

    If you ask Democrats whether McGovern was good or bad for the Democrats, they will say he was bad because he caused us to lose.

    If you ask Republicans whether Goldwater was good or bad for the Republicans, they will say he was the best thing ever and proudly proclaim themselves as Goldwater Republicans.

    I’m not sure which party is right.

    On the one hand, if you try to out-fringe and out-crazy and out-message yourself every election cycle, you end up with the modern Republican party.

    On the other hand, if you compromise and pooh-pooh message discipline, you end up with the modern Democratic party.

    I personally know which side I belong on, but on the other hand, we could stand to coordinate our message and stand for our beliefs a bit more, right?

  117. 117.

    fhtagn

    @MagicPanda:

    You know, I agree with you, but I suspect that if you posted this on GOS you’d get numerous accusations of repressing dissent, shutting down free speech…..

    Just sayin’.

  119. 119.

    vhh

    Let’s take a closer look at the Charles de Gaulle/Newt comparison.

    De Gaulle was a French colonel whose career stalled in the 30s after he wrote a book advocating a shift to highly mobile army featuring massed tank corps. The French military leadership, wedded as it was to the memory of Verdun and the Maginot LIne, was not amused. De Gaulle’s book sold 700 copies in France, but 7000 copies in Germany, and it is said that Hitler had it read to him aloud. When the German Blitzkrieg hit France in the weakest part of the Maginot Line, the immobile French army mostly crumbled, and temporary Gen de Gaulle’s formations were among the very few that attacked and won battles. De Gaulle then escaped to England, where he did his best to lead the French govt and world wide Free French military and preserve “a certain idea of France” in the years of Occupation. He was a royal pain in the ass to the Allies, but he won for France a measure of self respect without which the country would have lost its soul, and probably would have fallen under serious (as opposed to caviar society) Communism after the war. De Gaulle was unsuccessful in his first attempts to govern after the war, but returned with a vengeance to sort out the Fifth Republic in the large 50s and 60s. He extracted France from disastrous colonial wars in Indochina and Algeria (and correctly predicted that the US would have to do the same in the end). He helped make France a modern technological nation, a world leader in nuclear power, transportation, telecommunications, and other technologies. He was fiercely protective of his private family life and utterly devoted to his mentally retarded daughter, whose photo he always carried with him. In retirement, he lived in near poverty because he refused to accept a pension larger than that he was due in his substantive rank of colonel. He is revered to this day in France by the heirs of both his political supporters and his enemies.

    Newt Gingrich rose to power in the US House of Reps. by tearing down Jim Wright for flogging his books on inappropriate occasions and by securing as much pork as he could for his district in Georgia. Once he became Speaker, he pushed the Contract for America and swore that the few percent 1994 top bracket tax increase proposed by Clinton would take the US to the poor house. Of course, the US then entered its biggest boom since the 1950s. Newt went on to shut down the US govt not once but twice, to fan the flames of the Lewinsky scandal into a failed impeachment trial, and to build up a profoundly corrupt money spinning scheme, the infamous GOPAC, which set a style the GOP has pursued ever since. His ethical “lapses” and mismanagement ultimately forced his resignation.

    HIs private life was a model for the country, too. He canned wife 1 (his former high school teacher) while she was in the hospital for cancer treatment, saying she wasn’t pretty enough to be a politician’s wife. Marriage with wife #2, like Newt a political wingnut, fell apart because of his infidelity (this precisely during the run up to the Lewinsky scandal) and perhaps because she developed MS.

    Since his forced political retirement, Newt and wife #3 have maintained their expensive DC life style by working a series of 4 yr cons on rube donors as he floats presidential ambitions on wildly incoherent positions. To be fair, Trump makes Newt look sober, so maybe I should not say “wildly.”

    And so there you have it. Except for the genuine patriotism, bravery in the face of danger, personal honesty, family loyalty, and worldwide impact of de Gaulle’s career, he and Newt are really just about the same.

  121. 121.

    Elie

    @Delia:

    I predict he will develop a new safety monitoring gadget for seniors or put his name to a series of special support hose for senior men who help truss up those sagging areas south of the equator. I can see him appearing on one of those after hours commercials you see on teevee in the wee hours associated with pec flex commercials.

  122. 122.

    Cacti

    Uninspiring almost 70-year old white dude, with a scandal-marred past, now married to his former mistress…now where have I seen this before?

    Oh yeah, 2008.

  123. 123.

    MagicPanda

    @fhtagn: Well, kossacks wouldn’t like being told what to think and say.

    But they WOULD like a party that actually stood up and clearly fought for things that matter to unions, gays, people of color, the middle class, the working class, etc., right?

    I think the two go hand in hand. Knowing what the party believes and standing together to fight for these things means that people need to be a bit more coordinated in how they talk about things.

  124. 124.

    fhtagn

    @burnspbesq:

    I don’t think that bailing from the Euro is going to do much for Greece, and certainly not for its fiscal prospects. I love the Greeks dearly, but they take tax evasion to levels undreamed of even by Grover Norquist. They haven’t drawn up an approximately accurate government budget in many years, and the only reason anyone knew about the true horror that is the Greek fiscal balance sheet is that they were forced into making an approximate estimate by the Europeans, which revealed that the Greeks had hitherto been providing the EU with a new form of fiction, rather than any sort of realistic statement of their income and liabilities. Ireland has zombie banks because they were too weak to make the bankers take a haircut (which sounds oddly familiar) and may be forced out of the Euro by the overwhelming nature of the disaster. Whether it will do them much good is pretty debatable. Portugal has never been a model of fiscal or economic success, and probably never will be.

    Spain is where things are going to get extremely interesting, and probably unpleasant in the near future.

    FWIW, I think the Euro probably is doomed, simply because the long-suffering taxpayers of Germany seem to have had enough. I doubt, however, that its collapse will do much for countries like Greece and Portugal which have always been economic weak sisters in the European cluster.

  125. 125.

    fhtagn

    @MagicPanda:

    Yes and no. They want a clearly articulated and winning message, but it has to be one that respects and includes every viewpoint that the Kossackry might bring to bear, including the contrarians who lurk among them. Thus, coordinating a message might well be seen as an act of dictatorship, repression etc etc etc.

  126. 126.

    Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    fuckhead are you ok? are you ok? fuckhead. the walls of that compound were to high to get over, too low to get under. you would think it’s human nature, someone in abbotabad would say say say, he’s on down the road. i wonder if bin laden ever looked at the man in the mirror took a look at himself and said, shia’s out of my life.

    saudi royal reaction: he wanna be startin something, but the kid is not my son.

    but, don’t stop til you get enough.

  131. 131.

    MagicPanda

    @fhtagn: Yes, you are absolutely right. If we tried to enforce message discipline, the Kossacks would be angry.

    But I still think we could use more message discipline.

  132. 132.

    SFAW

    Where are Tupac and Biggie?

    Trump has his investigators looking into that, even as we “speak”. But the rumor that Trump heard – or may have heard – was that Obama had Biggie and Tupac “Fosterized” (if ya know what I mean).

  134. 134.

    fhtagn

    @MagicPanda:

    Sure. I would focus on jobs, investing in the future, making the financial system safe for Americans again, and ensuring that Americans have a social/medical security net that helps them in hard times and gives them dignity and safety in their old age. I am sure this would outrage people on every wing of the party, but I suspect it would resonate with the regular people outside the Beltway. Whack the GOP every day for creating more hate than jobs, more anger than opportunities. Hammer them for trying to bring down the economy to score ideological points. Ask how many jobs the GOP Congress has created. Ask why Paul Ryan is trying to turn Medicare into a casino just to give tax cuts to Sarah Palin and Donald Trump.

  135. 135.

    fhtagn

    @MagicPanda:

    Sure. I would focus on jobs, investing in the future, making the financial system safe for Americans again, and ensuring that Americans have a social/medical security net that helps them in hard times and gives them dignity and safety in their old age. I am sure this would outrage people on every wing of the party, but I suspect it would resonate with the regular people outside the Beltway. Whack the GOP every day for creating more hate than jobs, more anger than opportunities. Hammer them for trying to bring down the economy to score ideological points. Ask how many jobs the GOP Congress has created. Ask why Paul Ryan is trying to turn Medicare into a cas.ino just to give tax cuts to Sarah Palin and Donald Trump.

  136. 136.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    One slight problem here:

    When the German Blitzkrieg hit France in the weakest part of the Maginot Line, the immobile French army mostly crumbled, and temporary Gen de Gaulle’s formations were among the very few that attacked and won battles.

    The Germans went around the Maginot Line, through Belgium. The Maginot Line ran from France’s border with Switzerland to its border with Belgium- that is, only facing the border with Germany.

    IIRC, de Gaulle’s plan was to violate Belgian neutrality to attack Germany, which was the reason he was shunned before WWII broke out.

  137. 137.

    mclaren

    @Kathy in St. Louis:

    Christ on a crutch, does anyone know someone who is eager to see Gingrich run, other than Gingrich?

    Peggy Noonan. David Brooks. John McCain. Dick Cheney. The world is full of far-right fringe lunatics who think Newt Gingrich is the “brain trust” of the Republican party.

  138. 138.

    RossInDetroit

    Someone I dated… yipes, 17 years ago… had an expensive set of tapes that Newt marketed. We watched parts of some of them. In them he comes off as an intelligent guy. Now he wants to get clobbered in a presidential race in his late 60s. Wonder what happened.

  139. 139.

    burnspbesq

    @fhtagn:

    I’m inclined to think that a big-ass devaluation would be a good jump-start for the economies of all four countries, especially Ireland, where the fundamentals really aren’t all that bad. Seems preferable to a decade of stagnation, and the Argentina experience suggests that it could work. ‘Cept they can’t unilaterally devalue the euro.

    And if the German and French banks get hosed, fuck ’em. Nobody held a gun to their heads and made them adopt mark-to-market accounting.

  140. 140.

    mclaren

    @burnspbesq:

    “Fuck ’em” probably isn’t the best economic policy. What the European Union really needs is some system of internal floating exchange rates that will let the smaller economies like Ireland and Greece survive these kinds of internal currency imbalances. The big problem with the EU is that it created a unified economic system without creating a corresponding mechanism to allow the component economies to adjust to external stress without breaking apart.

  141. 141.

    fhtagn

    @burnspbesq:

    Ireland is probably the nearest to fiscal sanity, but I don’t think they can just devalue quite so easily. Their banking system is pretty much held hostage to the big banks elsewhere, largely because they insisted on not making their banks take a haircut when they had the chance. I doubt that Portugal and Greece have anything but pain to look forward to in the medium-term, especially Greece. They probably have the most dysfunctional fiscal system in Europe, which is an alarming achievement. Just devaluing won’t change that, and I don’t know that any politician or party is able to reform the system without a dictatorship. My guess is that Spain is going to be the final disaster. Who knows, maybe they can threaten other countries with the release of Jose Mourinho to ravage and slay, spreading incivility, devastation and amazingly dull soccer wherever he goes. Of course, that might just persuade Chelsea that they really have missed the old villain. Either way, I think the Germans will lose patience once Spain finally goes to pot, and that will be that for the Euro.

  142. 142.

    RadioOne

    Matt Bai is getting really weirdly Nostradamus in some of his political implications in that column. For that reason alone, I think all future Matt Bai columns should be ignored in political discourse from now on.

  143. 143.

    roshan

    The best part is this:
    __

    I will be responding to your thoughts and queries in a video feature on nytimes.com on Wednesday. Submit any questions have about Newt Gingrich’s candidacy in the comments below.

  144. 144.

    cbear

    @RadioOne:

    weirdly Nostradamus

    the star of the twat from the North wanes
    and the voice of the great beaverhead fades
    In the East, a fat salamander crawls from the slime
    the people of the Orange resist

    cbear +6

  145. 145.

    BerkeleyMom

    This whole running for president thing is just a loss-leader for Newt. He’s got to do it to keep the grift/statesman thing going for him and Callista or the next Mrs. Newt.

  146. 146.

    Spaghetti Lee

    @cbear:

    In the East, a fat salamander crawls from the slime

    Trump? Christie? Peter King?

    Sheesh. Fuckin’ Nostradamus can’t come out and say anything straight.

  147. 147.

    Yutsano

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Fuckin’ Nostradamus can’t come out and say anything straight.

    What do you want, a cookie? Ineffability doesn’t grow on trees you know.

  149. 149.

    Yutsano

    @scav: Yeah well you get a decent enough agent and you make it into the Bible. Revelations is one long giant shroom trip someone at Nicea thought was prophetic. Or something.

  151. 151.

    Djur

    Jesus. OK, de Gaulle was a war hero who led the French people in recovering their country from Nazis and traitors. He lost power after the war as many war leaders do (those who don’t take the initiative and seize dictatorship, of course). He was recalled during a time of national crisis and elected along with a new goddamn constitution.

    Newt doesn’t have anything to compare with that. He’s a disgraced philanderer who lost power because he spent too much time sniffing the President’s dick.

    And Reagan just achieved the unbelievable in being nominated and elected for President four years after a failed run, when he’d been priming himself for the office for over a decade. That’s more or less how Presidents get to be President, historically. Newt has never been a legitimate presidential candidate.

  153. 153.

    cckids

    @Delia:

    But not as lame as Newtie’s ever-mutating intellectual pretensions. I predict his name will eventually set the gold standard for lameness.

    So, so true. I recently finished Hillary’s autobiography, & had to crack up at the story of Newt bringing his mother to some White House function. He was pontificating some historical story & getting major facts wrong; Hillary tried some gentle “don’t you mean. . .” and Mamma Newt jumped down her throat, because “Newt is a HISTORIAN, also a genius, he is not ever wrong.” Just hysterical. Tells you where he got his oversized ego.

  154. 154.

    Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)

    @vhh: I knew one of the local brainiacs would trot out some science like this. That was a pleasure to read.

  155. 155.

    Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel)

    cbear +7

    I feel that if I can stay awake to cbear +11, we’ll come right out the other side and into clarity.

    But it’s a gamble.

  156. 156.

    Dream On

    69? He sure doesn’t act like it. I guess some people really don’t ever grow up.

  157. 157.

    MikeBoyScout

    Mr. Gingrich is a devotee of the historian Arnold J. Toynbee, who meditated on the concept of “departure and return” — the idea that great leaders have to leave (or be banished from) their kingdoms before they can better themselves and return as conquering heroes.

    I’m aware of a couple of folks who were “banished” from their country and returned to conquer.
    – Vladimir Ilyich Lenin
    – Joseph Stalin
    – Fidel Castro
    – Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini

    The return of a banished ‘leader’ has frequently turned out well, no?

  158. 158.

    Chris

    @vhh:

    He was a royal pain in the ass to the Allies, but he won for France a measure of self respect without which the country would have lost its soul, and probably would have fallen under serious (as opposed to caviar society) Communism after the war.

    I disagree. Conservatives and Socialists in France were both scared of a Communist takeover, and with Britain and America backing them all the way, the chances of a Red takeover were fairly small.

    Great rest of the analysis, though.

  159. 159.

    rea

    De Gaulle’s pre-war writings on armored warfare were very influential–unfortunately, influential in the German army rather than his own.

  162. 162.

    different church-lady

    “And like Mr. Reagan and M. de Gaulle, Mr. Gingrich has two eyes, a nose, and a mouth. The parallels are astonishing.”

  163. 163.

    someofparts

    Gingrich worries me more than any of the other candidates. I thought it couldn’t get any worse than W. This would be worse.

  165. 165.

    master c

    Oh I hope Newt reads the comments on that article.
    Might make him cease and desist today

  166. 166.

    Rorgg

    Mr. Gingrich, like Mr. Reagan, would be 69 when taking the oath of office. (Mr. de Gaulle was 68.) Coincidence?

    By definition, no.

  169. 169.

    Matt

    “And if elected president, Mr. Gingrich, like Mr. Reagan, would be 69 when taking the oath of office. (Mr. de Gaulle was 68.)”

    Don’t forget the additional coincidence that both would be in office despite being clueless amoral jackoffs who couldn’t govern their way out of a paper sack…

  170. 170.

    Tehanu

    @vhh:

    Since there’s no “like” button here, just saying “Like Like Like” on your comment.

  171. 171.

    g

    So does Ronald Reagan, who traveled the country after losing his bid for the Republican nomination in 1976, then came roaring back to win it all four years later.

    Right. Ronald Reagan in exile all those four years between 1976 and 1980, bowing out of the interim Republican contests for the candidacy, resting on his laurels….

    Oh, wait. He was doing what every other Republican candidate was doing between 1976 and 1980. Waiting for the next go-round.

    Seriously, does Bai (or Gingrich) know about some Republican presidential contests in 1977, 1978, and 1979 that I’m forgetting about?

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