Ben Stein defends Strauss-Kahn:
In life, events tend to follow patterns. People who commit crimes tend to be criminals, for example. Can anyone tell me any economists who have been convicted of violent sex crimes? Can anyone tell me of any heads of nonprofit international economic entities who have ever been charged and convicted of violent sexual crimes? Is it likely that just by chance this hotel maid found the only one in this category? Maybe Mr. Strauss-Kahn is guilty but if so, he is one of a kind, and criminals are not usually one of a kind.
Polanski apologist Anne Applebaum wonders if Sarkozy set Strauss-Kahn up:
When I first heard that Dominique Strauss-Kahn — managing director of the International Monetary Fund, leading French Socialist politician, and potential candidate for the French presidency in 2012 — was alleged to have emerged naked from a New York hotel bathroom, sexually assaulted a chambermaid, run out of the hotel and arrested while boarding the next plane to Paris, my first thought was: Sarkozy must be behind this.
I honestly thought that the fact Strauss-Kah is a soshulist would make him less sympathetic to righties. I guess not, being head of the IMF makes you a big enough wheel that you can’t possibly be a rapist, even if you are a leftie surrender monkey.
Dave C
DIAF, Ben stein!
Steve M.
Where’s the long-form rape kit?!
Why were all the Jewish chambermaids told to stay home that day?
Why did the Warren Commission discount the possibility of a second cock?
(Sorry. Too soon.)
Amanda in the South Bay
Arrgh, I’m tired of fucking apologists for rape.
Cat Lady
We truly are ruled by sociopaths.
WereBear
How on earth did Ben Stein get involved? Is it just a case of anyone rich can’t possibly be a criminal?
And has he been asleep the past ten years?
Martin
Ah yes, the ‘he wouldn’t be black if he wasn’t a criminal’ defense. Well played, Ben.
Villago Delenda Est
DSK is rich.
In Ben Stein’s world, that means he should be able to have his way with anyone less rich than him.
It’s the natural order of things.
Baud
Unfortunately, I left my list of economists who have been convicted of violent sex crimes at work, or I would have a thing or two to say to Mr. Stein.
GregB
Show us the results of the DNA test or we won’t believe a thing.
Sincerely,
-The Jizzers
Mike in NC
Ordinarily so, but choosing between taking sides with a rich white Frenchman or an African chambermaid? No brainer!
manwith7talents
That Ben Stein quote is the worst defense I’ve ever seen of anyone for anything.
fasteddie9318
JFC, Ben Stein is an utter douchebag. Are you telling me they couldn’t have found someone who was less of an asshole to say “Bueller…Bueller…Bueller…” in that fucking movie instead of foisting Stein on the world?
Suffern ACE
“I can’t believe Stein wrote that out loud” said the Voice in Anne Applebaum’s head, the one that tells her the truth of things she can’t possibly know.
Villago Delenda Est
Back during the entire Jon-Benet Ramsey kerfluffle, some asshole on Salon’s Table Talk actually made the argument, up front, that the parents, because they were wealthy, could not possibly ever be considered as suspects.
Because they’re wealthy, they’d never commit such a crime.
Needless to say, the asshole was savaged by everyone else on the board.
MagicPanda
I cannot believe what a dick Ben Stein is. That is just incredible.
Villago Delenda Est
Oh, and win on thread title, which is a Paul Simon reference.
dmsilev
Shorter Ben Stein: “Nothing happens which hasn’t already happened several times before.” It’s a wonderful philosophy, which is only contradicted by the entirety of recorded history.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
Out of, what, all two dozen of them? Is Stein not familiar with the concept of sample size?
Um, didn’t he find her?
Still, it’s not like we needed any more evidence that Ben Stein is a gigantic douchebag.
salacious crumb
I have yet to see Ben Stein rush to the defense of thousands of incarcerated black men.
fucking right winger.
The Dangerman
Lucky ducky.
Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus)
What the Hell, Stein? Did you seriously just say that you don’t think it’s likely he can be guilty because he’s not a member of the Criminal Class? That’s what it really, really sounds like you just said.
C’mon, Stein. You should know too much history to throw out the idea that rich, powerful men don’t commit rape.
Violet
The former Israeli President was convicted of rape. Took me about three seconds using teh google to find that. Okay, so he’s not an economist or the head of the IMF. Maybe he doesn’t count.
Saw an interview with a journalist familiar with French politics. He said that the general feeling is that it isn’t Sarkozy because he would have waited until closer to the time of the election. This is far enough out to allow another candidate to step up.
gex
Further proof that this is a class war and nothing more. They are the right kind of people. The rest of us aren’t.
mistermix
Men who aren’t married tend to be bachelors.
gex
Also, we will never be able to show examples of economists with criminal histories if we refuse to ever try an economist for a crime based on the fact that they are an economist. Nice how that works.
In fact, if we just stopped all law enforcement, we can rid ourselves of our entire criminal population! Hooray!
salacious crumb
btw, I wonder how long it will be before the Israeli govt starts lobbying to get DSK outta jail?
This is Netanyahu when meeting Obama in the coming weeks..”free DSK and we will agree to temporarily suspend building a settlement apartment for one hour!..thats our best offer!”
Martin
The only think you really need to know here is that Ben worked for Nixon.
The Dangerman
Picture, if you will, and in an entirely preposterous scenario, that it wasn’t a rich white dude, a member of the privileged class (and someone who could probably afford the priciest callgirl in NYC)…
…but, rather, an African American President of the United States. What would BC’s response have been for that scenario?
dmsilev
It’s worth clicking through past Wonkette to Stein’s full article. If we could run cars off of distilled douchebaggery, that one article would power half of California for a year. Take a look at this:
Oh, the humanity! Oh, and the head of the IMF is “one of the most recognizable people on the planet”? Really? Before this happened, how many people even knew the name Strauss-Kahn, let alone could pick him out of a lineup?
Doug Harlan J
@Violet:
Set him up by convincing him to attack a chambermaid and flee to the airport?
pablo
We elitists stick together.
300baud
Apparently another member of the pro-rape lobby: http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/13/ken-buck-the-pro-rape-lobby/
Violet
@dmsilev:
Oh, wow. That’s some “he’s the right sort of people” crap right there.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
Rich white guy.
Working class black maid.
Who ya gonna believe?
aimai
Class changes everything. If this had happened in France and it had happened to a white frenchwoman, however, his socialism and his jewishness would have told against him.
Best comment on this subject from Amanda Marcotte’s thread “Rape isn’t something men do because they can’t get the sex they want. Rape is the sex they want.” I’m betting that if someone put themselves out to investigate other hotels, around the world, that M. IMF has stayed in you will eventually turn up a rather large number of assaulted chambermaids. Its only class and race that have prevented him from actually following through on his assaults on women of his own class when they fought back.
aimai
Alex S.
Not sure what I am getting myself into now, but I guess that this is not about class solidarity, but about religion.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
They’re not? What, are they being stamped out of a mold?
This pretty handily shows us how Ben Stein thinks. Criminals are all the same; the rich and powerful are not criminals; therefore, Strauss-Kahn is not a criminal.
This man cannot be eviscerated by baboons soon enough.
Amir_Khalid
Still entitled after all these years …
This is a straight-up New York City criminal case. Nothing to do with French presidential politics. Anne Applebaum must know that. Her whole piece is wild speculation based on antipathy toward Sarko. She’s got nothing, unless she can make a case that Sarkozy was somehow conspiring with a hotel worker in a foreign city to frame Strauss-Kahn. She and Ben Stein and Bernard Henri-Levy (who also defended Roman Polanski) are elites reflexively jumping to the defense of a fellow elite.
Suffern ACE
@dmsilev: Same could be said for Madoff. Didn’t he say he was sorry! Do you know how hard that is to do? And yet they put him in prison anyway, one of the most distinguished and generous men of his generation. It’s class warfare, I tell you.
aimai
Class changes everything. If he had been a poor sock-lst they wouldn’t be standing by him. And if this had happened in France and it had happened to a white frenchwoman, both, his politics and his jewishness would have told against him.
Best comment on this subject from Amanda Marcotte’s thread “Rape isn’t something men do because they can’t get the sex they want. Rape is the sex they want.” I’m betting that if someone put themselves out to investigate other hotels, around the world, that M. IMF has stayed in you will eventually turn up a rather large number of assaulted chambermaids. Its only class and race that have prevented him from actually following through on his assaults on women of his own class when they fought back.
aimai
reposted because the forbidden S word put me in moderation.
Chuck Butcher
Jayzus Cripes!
Our kind would never do such a thing?
You really seldom see it put forward quite that blatantly – publicly.
Violet
@Doug Harlan J:
The “Sarkozy set him up” line of thinking is apparently being discussing in France. So the journalist was commenting on it and explaining that, even excluding the other obvious things that make that line of thought ridiculous (like DSK escaping to the airport), it seems unlikely it is something Sarkozy would do at this time.
cyntax
Well there’s a history of Strauss-Kahn being accused of indiscretions/affairs/and other such sexual allegations. By Ben’s “logic” that’s not so good.
slag
What does this even mean?! Are there people who commit crimes who aren’t criminals? Are there criminals out there who do not commit crimes?
TomG
Who cares what Ben Stein thinks, anyway? He’s the tool who made “Expelled”.
And sorry, but anyone who defends Roman Polanski doesn’t get much credit from me, either.
honus
Yeah, right. No international banker has ever disrespected a hotel maid.
And the new York prosecutor didn’t have any evidence before he grabbed the head of the IMF off and airplane, and the court denied him bail.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
i bet julian assange is paying damned close attention to that part about sarkozy setting dsk up.
lets let the evidence be presented, then we freedom fry him in hot oil. ben stein does make a heck of a case against police profiling though he probably doesn’t realize it yet. he has been inculcated to associate criminality with a group or class, which suggests a pernicious long-term effect even on the learned ben stein. do it not?
Violet
@slag:
It means that people who commit crimes are poor and/or have dark skin. Anyone who isn’t in those categories is by definition not a real criminal.
dmsilev
@Violet: Yeah, no kidding. It really boils down to “a member of the nobility should *never* be imprisoned among the peasants”.
Villago Delenda Est
“I am not a crook!”
Sound familiar, Ben?
Sad_Dem
On the Fox news Web site I found an apologist piece stating that DSK is someone I know, he’s a decent guy, we shared a room at Davos and he didn’t rape me, blah, blah. So, yeah, the true colors come out here. French isn’t bad and soshulist isn’t bad if you’re rich. DSK is rich–he brings stability and jobs to an “unstable” world.
honus
“…if so, he is one of a kind, and criminals are not usually one of a kind.”
“…as an acquaintance exclaimed over lunch yesterday, “It’s crazy! Why would a guy in his position do something like this.” Surely a powerful, wealthy man who can afford a $3000-a-night hotel room can easily buy his pleasures – if not get them for free. This is after all a man who was known in France as “the great seducer.” A reputation supported by none other than his own wife, Anne Sinclair, who told L’Express magazine, “It’s important for a politician to be able to seduce.”
No history there. This is obviously an isolated and totally out-of-character incident.
Calouste
There something curious about the timeline of the incident, if you assume that DSK was scheduled to take the flight he was trying to take. If he was scheduled to take that flight, he should have been scheduled to check out of the hotel that day, and the maid wouldn’t have gone into the room until he had checked out. So barring a screw-up in the hotel’s cleaning schedule, it would look like the expectation was that DSK was going to spend the next night in the same room, and that the maid entered the room because he didn’t switch on the “Do Not Disturb” sign. Suddenly changing travel plans after what occured sounds extremely suspicious, and the judge would be right on to consider him a flight-risk if she had information that he checked out of the hotel a day early.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Martin: And there you have it. He’s a fuckwad. Full stop. With a side of self loathing for seasoning. Still crazy after all these years.
Calouste
@dmsilev:
I’m fine with that. If the nobility doesn’t want to be imprisoned among the peasants, they can have the privileged aristocratic punishment, beheading, instead.
JonF
Whats the under/over on when the victim gets smeared because she’s a minority?
JPL
TPM had this comment by Stein. I guess he’ll still be a welcome guess on CBS Sunday Morning but I won’t be watching him. In fact if I ever ran into the fucking jerk, I’d kick him in the balls and say, hey no gun, no knife, no problem.
Linda Featheringill
Any soshulist who accepted the position of running the IM-effing-F should be forced to turn in his/her membership card.
But to the issue at hand: There are a number of whispers out there that Mr. S-K has a hard time understanding “No” but those whispers aren’t proof of his guilt in this case.
Real evidence is proof. I read that the NYPD has DNA evidence. I suppose they obtained a physical examination of the maid and took samples and such.
As to Ol’ Ben: He shouldn’t be allowed to get away with that. I’m not sure what we could do but there should be something.
Frankie
Does this mean FOX News will go apoplectic when a Republican President asks Ben Stein to the White House? Anyone? Anyone? Buuuuuelerrrrr???
Anti-Arpaio Sane
Not the first time…
A French writer who claims Dominique Strauss-Kahn sexually assaulted her nine years ago is to file an official complaint, her lawyer has announced.
Tristane Banon previously described the attack, which happened when she was in her early 20s, in a television programme in 2007, when she called Strauss-Kahn, whose name was bleeped out, a “rutting chimpanzee.”
slag
@Violet:
Really. What other conclusions can you possibly draw from that statement? What a grotesque perspective. At what point does a person become inadmissible to polite society?
scav
@Violet:
I’ve also read that this is becoming unusual in France in that they’re really re-evaluating their traditional discretion and lack of overt concern about the private lives of politicians. The sex angle is bigger in US politics than there tradionally. The Money angle was what being pushed hard in France: his multiple houses and lavish lifestyle while being a socialíst.
BARRASSO
Serious question, of all the truly assholish people you know how many are conservative and how many progressive? I try to stay open minded but really I have been keeping count and the ratio is entirely skewed.
eemom
we can haz “Bitch set me up” tag plz? kthxbai
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@JPL: He wants to know how someone rich and powerful could intimidate a working poor immigrant? For serious?
God, if you exist, I ask you this one favor. Please have Ben Stein fucked to death by sentient icepicks. That’s all I really want.
fraught
Upthread, someone wrote that he could have had the most expensive call girl in town. This guy paid $500 for his $3000 suite on an internet discount site. He got a free upgrade to first class on Air France. He wanted free p*ssy, not costly. He wanted it black and hardworking because he’s a socialist. He wears $12000 suits. How can he afford them if he pays for call girls? Ben Stein knows this and knows that good suits are important for old white guys with faces like shoetrees.
Calouste
Btw, what does Applebaum have against Sarkozy? Is her Polish Foreign Minister husband not on the Christmas card list of the Elysee? Did he snub him during a European People’s Party gettogether?
I wouldn’t be surprised if Sarkozy makes some diplomatic stink with the Poles about this. It’s one thing being accused of dirty tricks, it’s another thing of being accused of dirty tricks by the wife of the Foreign Minister of one of your allies.
Violet
@JPL:
Quoting TPM:
Seriously? He can’t imagine how anyone could intimidate another person in a hotel? And WTF kind of hotel does he stay in where there are “people passing by the room constantly”? Most hotels I’ve been in don’t have a steady stream of people running by the door.
WereBear
I practically hurt myself laughing at that one. I kept seeing them as soooo snazzily dressed, too.
Sly
That fact that this sentence is meant to be taken seriously just makes it even more funny.
fraught
I’m in moderation??!!! I’m an old white guy. I should be able to write whatever the fuck I want. Put the young guys and women in moderation. Why… I’ve never been soo…the idea!!!
Alistair
My personal Ben Stein anecdote: I was on the game show Win Ben Stein’s Money back in 2001 or so. They shot a number of episodes back to back, so there were a number of contestants in the green room. Before it all started, one of the show staffers warned the group with something to effect of, “if you’re a pretty girl, Ben WILL leer at you and try to hit on you after the show. Please ignore him.” A friend of mine also went on the show on a different date and confirmed that they got the same warning. The staffer also referred to the cohost Nancy as a “bug-eyed slut”, so clearly it was a very healthy working environment…
ppcli
@Sly: If you make owning guns a crime then only criminals will have guns! So I guess if you make rape a crime, then only criminals will be rapists.
bryanD
“I honestly thought that the fact Strauss-Kah is a soshulist would make him less sympathetic to righties.”—Doug Harlen J
Ben Stein is a neocon. Neocons are the socialist representation within the GOP. This is basic stuff. These mostly-Jewish pencil pushers hopped over to the Reagan administration from the Democratic party screaming about niggers taking over the country. Before 9/11!,9/11! these people were traumatized by the northern riots of the late 60s and built a cult around it. It and Israel. And the “never-ending” (hopefully!) Cold War with which to feed Israel US tax money.
The fact the Stein and Strauss-Khan are both Jewish may or not be coincidental to this story.
ppcli
@Alex S.: If so, I doubt very much that Ben Stein’s defence of DSK will stand to this century the way Zola’s defence of Lt. Dreyfus did to the last one.
Sophist
There are millions of hotel maids in the world. Is it likely that just by chance this fucking (alleged) rapist found one. Yes.
You fucking moron.
miwome
Sweet jeesum crow. People who commit crimes are, by definition, CRIMINALS. I know he meant something else, but the sheer stupidity and laziness that went into expressing his shitty sentiment in the DUMBEST POSSIBLE WAY has just sent me over the edge. Damn, I really want to hit something now.
Daddy-O
“…head of the IMF…can’t possibly be a rapist.”
Of COURSE he can’t be a rapist–to Ben Stein. Everybody KNOWS hotel maids are brown-skinned terrists in disguise. Raping them is the national sport of Kazakhstan.
I’m done here.
Calouste
@Violet:
It wasn’t like any of the rooms Ben Stein stays in. It was a f’king $3000/night suite. Most likely at the end of the hallway where no one passes by. If it didn’t occupy half the floor by itself.
Mnemosyne
@cyntax:
The Guardian has had several stories about previous “incidents” involving Strauss-Kahn, which I’m sure Stein will happily ignore in his drive to insist that DSK has never been accused of anything like this before.
Mnemosyne
@Ivan Ivanovich Renko:
Not just working class, but an immigrant from Africa. What is that, like four strikes against her?
TheYankeeApologist
@Alistair: This is off-topic and inappropriate, but I have to know . . . .did you Win Ben Stein’s Money? ™
Amir_Khalid
@Calouste: In fact, access to the floor, never mind the hallway outside the room, would almost certainly require the guest to use the keycard for his room.
MikeJ
@Mnemosyne:
As will the Bradley Manning fans, I’m sure. Innocent until proven guilty, and all that, even if we’re only talking about some random comment on the internet instead of a judge.
HyperIon
Stein’s attitude reminds me of something I heard years ago on NPR during a discussion of the Jefferson & Sally Hemings “thing”.
One southern scholar stated: Of course it could never have happened because Thomas Jefferson was a Virgina gentleman.
Drive By Wisdom
Would not be the first guy strung up and declared guilty by the local mob.
Maybe you can get Mike Nifong to join the prosecution.
scav
@MikeJ: Dimwit, can you read? Mnemosyne said it was in reference to Stein and you even including it in your very own quote. Or do you agree that the mere fact that he’s an economist means he’s above all suspicion and that no other evidence or rumors of behavior should be admitted as evidence of his character?
Citizen_X
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
Scientists, on the other hand, they’re the scum of the earth. As Stein told us in Expelled, the fact that they taught evolution makes them guilty of causing the Holocaust.
Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people)
I’ve been reading Jon Ronson’s book, “The Psychopath Test” and wondering about Strauss-Kahn given the other allegations that have emerged (the French journalist who was told her career would be over if she tried to have him prosecuted, the IMF subordinate he pursued relentlessly and had an affair with who later said she felt he used his position of power to coerce her, etc.). I began to wonder whether he’d crossed over the line before and gotten away with it because of who he was. According to the New York Times, his defense is going to be that it was consensual sex. The article also quotes the woman’s lawyer saying she didn’t know her attacker was the head of the IMF until two days after she’d reported him to the police. The first report I read from his defenders said he was having lunch with his daughter at the time the incident was said to have occurred. So I’m to believe that while he was having lunch with his daughter outside the hotel, he was also having consensual sex with a Guinean widow 32 years his junior at her workplace, sex so consensual she felt compelled to call up her brother to state that she’d been assaulted and to report it to the police. I know he has a legal team that can probably get him freed but this really stinks.
MikeJ
@scav: No, I think heś a scumbag. I also think Bradley Manning is scum,and since he confessed I have no trouble saying heś guilty.
However, any time you state the obvious and say that Manning is guilty, firebaggers appear to tell you that you are stomping on his civil liberties by daring to imply that he did what he said he did.
I don’t think that people discussing things on the internet need the same level of proof that the courts do. I think itś perfectly alright to call the IMF guy rapist scum and I think itś perfectly alright to call Bradley Manning traitorous scum.
Mnemosyne
@MikeJ:
I have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Are you arguing that we can’t look at the fact that DSK has had rumors and allegations floating around him for years because in a court of law he’s innocent until proven guilty?
JPL
FYI I wrote to CBS [email protected]
complaining that his article in the American Spectator did not give the benefit of a doubt to the victim…
JasonF
Can anybody tell me the name of an actor who played a male member of the faculty in the movie Ferris Bueller’s Day Off who hasn’t committed sex crimes? Jeffrey Jones has. Is it likely that just by chance Ben Stein is the only one in the category of non-sex-offenders? Maybe Mr. Stein is not guilty but if so, he is one of a kind.
MikeJ
@Mnemosyne: No, I’m saying I would take it into account. Those people who insist we can’t call Manning guilty certainly shouldn’t decide this guy is guilty though. I’m not one of them, so I have no problem saying I think he’s guilty,
scav
@MikeJ: Well, then, I’m with Mnemosyne, I don’t have any idea what point you’re trying to make, only that you seem to be arguing with what you expect other people to be saying, in which case, I don’t think you need me (or any other contributer for that matter) here at all. Carry on.
JCT
@eemom: Close, NYT suggesting the angle that it was “consensual”. Of course.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@MikeJ: Your ability to use any topic as an excuse to whine about frrrbaggers is impressive.
No, wait, not impressive. That other thing. Sad, that’s it.
Perhaps now that you’ve gotten your crying over a month-old flame war out of the way, you can join us in mocking Ben Stein.
MikeJ
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: I’m perfectly capable of mocking both Stein and firebaggers.
JPL
CBS Sunday Mornings allows Stein to bloviate, please take a few seconds and send them a note..
[email protected]
drkrick
Class will out. Or not. My high school sociology teacher/football coach, while talking about factors leading to crime including job-related opportunity, told us that for example “everybody knew” the rash of burglaries in the varsity locker room had been committed by one of the janitors. Because it was “their kind” who would steal.
No surprise that we didn’t revisit the subject when it turned out the culprit was a three-sport letterman victimizing his teammates who also happened to be the teacher’s little brother.
Triassic Sands
@Mike in NC:
Why does anyone need to choose sides before there has been a trial? I realize that the “presumption of innocence” has become as quaint as the Geneva Conventions, but I believe it is still a standard that deserves more than mere lip service.
Personally, I think the best way to honor the standard of “innocent until proven guilty” is by not discussing the merits of criminal cases outside of courtrooms — where evidence will be presented, standards of fairness and constitutionality will (we hope) be honored, and a jury of peers will render a decision based on actual admissible evidence. Some guilty people will be found not guilty and worse, some innocent people will be convicted.
It does not dishonor the accuser if we don’t automatically accept her version of events. If we did, then men would be imprisoned solely on the word of an accuser and trials would be unnecessary. I hope no one thinks that would be desirable. That doesn’t mean we reject her version either. It means we don’t form any opinion until a trial has been conducted. In this case the chambermaid has made certain claims that are serious enough to justify arrest and most likely a trial. Is she telling the truth? Is Strauss-Kahn guilty? I don’t know and I don’t know. And nothing I read in the media will allow me to arrive at a defensible verdict; that’s the job of the lawyers, witnesses, judges, and juries.
Stein’s comments sound idiotic. He seems to be arriving at a not guilty verdict based — not on Strauss-Kahn’s purported actions — but rather on the historical frequency of guilt by classes of people. Would he routinely refuse to prosecute a woman for being a serial killer because serial killers are almost always men? Cases have to be based on individual behavior and facts. A woman can be a serial killer. A prostitute can be raped just as surely as a nun. And an economist or head of the IMF could be guilty of sexual assault. No one’s position in life exempts them from possible guilt.
Arriving at any verdict prior to a fair trial is irresponsible. In this case prosecutors, on behalf of the chambermaid, will have to prove her accusations against Strauss-Kahn. His status should not have any bearing on the outcome, but we all know that our legal system favors the wealthy over the poor and the connected over the powerless. That said, he deserves his day in court and if credible evidence proving his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt can’t be presented, then he should be acquitted. Rape/sexual assault is an ugly crime and proving guilt can be difficult, but trials in the media are always irresponsible.
If Strauss-Kahn is tried and found guilty, a prison sentence will be in order. But right now I have no opinion on his guilt or innocence — and I hope his jurors won’t either until the trial is completed.
hamletta
@JasonF: Zing!
Mnemosyne
@Triassic Sands:
You may want to read up on the case of Sam Sheppard if you think that trying a case in the media is a recent phenomenon.
And if DSK’s powerful friends and colleagues are allowed to use the media to try to influence the trial by talking about what a great guy he is and how he can’t possibly be guilty, I’m not sure why people are not allowed to bring up the counter-evidence so at least potential jurors get both sides of the story instead of being fed “he’s a great guy!” 24/7 before the trial.
rikyrah
the ‘alleged’ victim is an immigrant woman, making minimum wage, trying to live off of it in NYC. she has better things to do than to make shyt up.
his ass was caught on a fucking airplane out of the country. he is the very definition of FLIGHT RISK.
and, if this is the best that his ‘ buddies’ can come up with for his defense…
fuck him.
priscianus jr
@slag:
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Triassic Sands: Stein is just saying that SDK couldn’t be guilty because he’s the right sort of person. The rest of his blathering is just a failed attempt to make his aristo-fluffing less obvious.
kth
Nice to see they’re putting the old Polanski group (of defenders) back together. Maybe they could start a permanent foundation, for anytime someone wealthy and somewhat exotic is accused of a sex offense.
Just one more thing I’d note, is this notion (again mainly from the Polanski apologists) that Anglophone attitudes towards sexual assault somehow lack nuance, or that we are somehow more shrill about rape because of our puritanical/Victorian history. That causation may have some historical basis: early American feminism tended to have very little to do with free love and much more to do with protecting women from violence. But that distinction–that we think that violence against women is super-f*cked up–is to our credit and not the continentals.
(edit) that last graf I suppose rang a little of “some say”, so I should hasten to add that I never saw anyone actually make such an atrocious argument, that’s just a feeling I got from some of them.
Delia
@kth:
Indeed. Or maybe we are simply barbarians who lack the time-honored custom of droit de seigneur. Which excuses any damn thing they want to do.
Gin & Tonic
Probably deadthreaded, but just to note that Ben Stein is not and was not an economist. He was a junior speechwriter for a little while for Nixon, but he only got the job because Daddy got it for him. Daddy was Herbert Stein, chairman of Nixon’s Council of Economic Advisers, and actually a well-credentialed economist (PhD from U of Chicago.)
He is and has been for some time an asshole, though.
Keith G
@MikeJ:
I am not a firebagger, but I will play.
I figure Maning is guilty. Nonetheless, I am no fan of those authorities who are/were holding him in what amounts to pre-trial detention and still treating him as if he were guilty and sentenced or worse yet playing any type of mind games with him.
I am very worried that we are backtracking in our treatment of the accused. Presumption of innocence and due process must be inviolate as must be equal treatment for all classes.
Triassic Sands
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
I understand that. And Stein is an idiot for even attempting to do so. But, then, I’ve always thought Stein was an idiot.
Brachiator
Has the guy even been formally charged with a crime? Has a trial date been set? Did I miss a verdict while commuting?
The pontificating by anyone don’t mean shit and is another one of those tales told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
I’m used to “he was arrested so he must be guilty of something” shit from conservatives. Balloon Juicers surprise me somewhat. Just somewhat.
0whole1
> Can anyone tell me any economists who have been convicted of violent sex crimes?
This sort of modern phrenology reminded me of the Parkman–Webster murder case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkman%E2%80%93Webster_murder_case) as detailed in Sinom Schama’s Dead Certainties — 1850s hack’em-up with the main suspect a Harvard professor.
And since dismemberment just isn’t the done thing amongst Harvard professors, guy must have been innocent, Nu?
Brachiator
@Suffern ACE:
You clearly missed some of the slimy “Madoff really wasn’t the right sort of person” stuff, so he was obviously a con man especially coming from some of the New York press. And I don’t quite understand this and am reluctant to mention it, but some of this also suggested that he wasn’t the right sort of upper class Jew. But I wanted to emphasize that the Madoff rejection wasn’t simplistic anti semitism.
Barb (formerly Gex)
It’s the Rapelisburger standard. Rich white guys don’t rape.
300baud
@Triassic Sands:
The presumption of innocence, which is the flipside of requiring proof beyond a reasonable doubt, is a requirement in criminal court because the state has the power to fuck up your life but good.
Out here, people are allowed to have opinions. And the opinion that he did it is a reasonable one, one that wouldn’t necessarily be contradicted by a court eventually finding him not guilty. Plenty of guilty people go free. Some by design, because an innocent imprisoned is much worse than a criminal escaping justice. And some because in America you tend to get as much justice as you can afford.
bago
Wrex.
moe99
@300baud: Word
AxelFoley
Absence of conviction doesn’t mean absence of crime, Stein, you miserable fucking bitch.
Fuck Ben Stein and his money.
AxelFoley
@eemom:
Win.
Triassic Sands
@300baud:
That sounds nice, but I doubt you’d feel that way if you were the accused (and innocent) and had to worry about people prejudging your guilt and then sitting as jurors at your trial.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@Barb (formerly Gex):
yes because every case is like every other case. thank you for being the equal and opposite wrong reaction to ben stein.
you are only perpetuating the injustices that surround the crime of rape on every side.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
Have Anne Applebaum and Ann Althouse ever been seen in the same room at the same time?
Lisa
@Ivan Ivanovich
there isn’t much else to say
WaterGirl
@Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people):
Years ago I worked for a rape crisis center and was an advocate for rape victims. One case went to court and I was astonished by the defense: I didn’t do it. And if I did it, there was consent.
It would have been laughable had it not been so serious – and i was told that sort of defense happened all the time. It doesn’t even pass the laugh test, but it’s standard procedure in a court of law. It makes no sense to me.
Josh
Economists convicted of sex crimes.