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You are here: Home / Past Elections / Election 2012 / Shit Magnetry

Shit Magnetry

by $8 blue check mistermix|  May 18, 20119:38 am| 88 Comments

This post is in: Election 2012

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James Joyner thinks Michelle Bachmann’s almost-certain entry into the race will make the David Brooks approved candidates rubber because she’s glue:

But having her in the race might well be helpful to Pawlenty, Mitt Romney, Mitch Daniels, and other comparatively mainstream Republicans. If they can resist the lure of moving right to compete for her base, which would backfire, she’ll serve as a lightning rod and make them more appealing to general election voters.

First, I’m skeptical that “her base” isn’t “the base”. It may be true that there’s a huge silent majority of Republican primary voters energized to vote for a wimp, Mormon or Arab, but so far they’re far under the radar. Current polling shows Romney at the top, but the number two and three are Palin and Gingrich, and those two combined beat Mitt by 10 points. Bachmann and Palin combined also beat Obamacare Mitt. So, when Palin inevitably bows out, Bachmann will be there to pick up her followers and give the others a good run for the money.

Second, even if she’s merely a lighting rod or shit magnet, James really misunderstands the press if he thinks there won’t be any collateral damage from her presence. As we’re seeing with Newt’s flailing walkback of his Ryan critique — his latest is that quoting anything he said on Sunday is a lie — once a crazy candidate utters something stupid, it gives the media a giant opportunity to ask a “do you agree” question.

Do you agree with Newt Gingrich that the Republican budget is radical social engineering?

Do you agree with Michele Bachmann that regulating potatoes in schools is unconstitutional?

This is the favorite kind of media question, because they can’t be accused of bias when they ask a Republican to comment on what another Republican said, and because it makes candidates squirm.

So, instead of telling us how they’re going to cut taxes on the rich, fuck the poor out of Medicaid, and protect us from brown people, the serious candidates will be responding to all the dumb shit that Bachmann and Gingrich bring to the table. I don’t see how that helps the other candidates, especially if she wins Iowa, which is a real possibility since her supporters are the kind who show up at caucuses.

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Reader Interactions

88Comments

  1. 1.

    Wag

    May 18, 2011 at 9:48 am

    I love me some Bachmann Turner Diary Overdrive

  2. 2.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    May 18, 2011 at 9:51 am

    It’s always good news for Republicans.

  3. 3.

    piratedan

    May 18, 2011 at 9:52 am

    ahhh, so she’s a Republican Roomba, picking up goofballs that are laying about in the Republican living room and thereby clearing the path for a serious R candidate. Only one issue with that plan, the people who back Ms. Bachmann don’t see her as a losing proposition and will follow her and her fiery chariot all the way to hell because she’s a family values candidate who doesn’t have to worry about keeping her dick in her pants.

  4. 4.

    Michael57

    May 18, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Iowa is not only about nutcases, it’s about organizing nutcases (or, er, in our case, supporters). Are we sure that Bachmann can build an organization that could win a chess match like Iowa? What professional campaign types will want to be associated with her? I guess we’ll see.

  5. 5.

    cleek

    May 18, 2011 at 9:55 am

    my hunch is that Bachmann will knock herself out of contention by saying something completely outrageous – so crazy that the press won’t even bother asking the other GOPers if they agree.

  6. 6.

    Chris

    May 18, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Sounds like the basic problem of the GOP is becoming more pronounced – how can you satisfy hard right voters and still win the general election? – is becoming more pronounced.

    It’s sort of the same tightrope Nixon started walking in 1968 – appeal to the Dixiecrats, but tone it down enough that the rest of the country doesn’t get turned off by it. But that was then. The hard right (be it the Dixiecrats or the Birchers) hadn’t taken over the party yet and so weren’t in a position to issue demands; and the rest of the country was both whiter and more racist and so easier not to offend. Both those things are getting less and less true as time goes by, so the tightrope just keeps getting less stable.

    GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!

  7. 7.

    Robert Waldmann

    May 18, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Does not compute. You think it is worse for candidates to say that regulating potatoes is constitutional than to say how they plan to slash Medicare to give tax cuts to the rich ?

    Seems to me, the potatoes question is a good example of rubber meets glue (great way of summarizing JJ by the way).

    The problem is crazy stuff Bachman says which convinces primary voters. Most Republican primary voters don’t see with the eyes of big potato[e*].

    But much of Bachman’s lunacy is deadly, because agreeing drives off the sane(ish) 70% and disagreeing drives of Republican primary voters.

    * Note that Bachman might be the second absurd Republican to be outfoxed by a root vegetable — for the kids Dan Quayle was convinced (by an incorrect index card he was handed) that “potato” is spelled “potatoe.”

  8. 8.

    Chris

    May 18, 2011 at 10:02 am

    What do you mean, I don’t have permission to edit my comment? IT’S MY COMMENT, ASSHOLE! I WROTE IT!

    DIAF, WP!

  9. 9.

    Zifnab

    May 18, 2011 at 10:03 am

    If they can resist the lure of moving right to compete for her base, which would backfire, she’ll serve as a lightning rod and make them more appealing to general election voters.

    But you know who else is appealing to general election voters? Barry Obama. :-p

    So the GOP candidate is going to run the McCain play book? Go centrist on the GOP nomination itself, then run hard right in the general, trying to reclaim the base voters? Yeah, sounds like a winning strategy to me.

  10. 10.

    David

    May 18, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Romney and Huntsman cancel each other out, Daniels and Pawlenty cancel each other, and Bachmann and Cain cancel each other.

    It will come down to Gingrich and Paul — a battle for the soul of the Republican Party and because Gingrich is Village-adjacent he’ll win the nomination.

  11. 11.

    mistermix

    May 18, 2011 at 10:05 am

    @Michael57: Having watched them in action during the 2009 summer of hating Obamacare, I have no doubt that the tea party is able to bring a certain number of voters out to a given event, like a caucus. Michele is going to be their candidate in Iowa, so I think she has a reasonable chance even if she has trouble working with professional managers.

  12. 12.

    Don

    May 18, 2011 at 10:06 am

    I think you’re right on the quoting/questioning and I think having Teh Crazy playing in your pool doesn’t help your chances down the road in the general election. When you fight monsters you risk becoming one and when you debate loony toon you let people see you talking about this baloney, even if it’s just to refute it.

    The real question is why this isn’t also in the”good for john mccain” category.

  13. 13.

    Zifnab

    May 18, 2011 at 10:07 am

    @Chris:

    It’s sort of the same tightrope Nixon started walking in 1968 – appeal to the Dixiecrats, but tone it down enough that the rest of the country doesn’t get turned off by it.

    They didn’t have email or YouTube in ’68, and that’s what makes this way harder. Every piece of mail the GOP spits out, whether it be a “My platforms are…” flier or a Christmas Card, has the chance to get pitched into the light of day. Double-talk gets much, much harder when five minutes in Acrobat can create a “flip-flopper” mash-up video the whole nation will see. You can’t even say “Macaca” among friends anymore without blowing a Senate race in the state that housed the capital of the Confederacy.

  14. 14.

    jonas

    May 18, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Bachmann’s going to be a problem for these guys. The evangelical/talkradio base loves her. Sure, a guy like Romney will look all moderate and even-keeled next to her. And he’s going to get his ass handed to him in Iowa and South Carolina if he doesn’t try hard to cut her off on the right. That will require him to act like an insane winger. I think the only ones who can credibly out-crazy Bachmann are Cain and Santorum.

  15. 15.

    JGabriel

    May 18, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Bachmann is running for VP. I think she knows that. If so, the plan is for her to suck up the fundie vote in the primaries, such that whoever ends up as the “moderate” presidential nominee has to pick her for the VP slot — in exchange for keeping the Christian right motivated to turn out.

    Bachmann wants to be next year’s Palin.

    .

  16. 16.

    Chris

    May 18, 2011 at 10:11 am

    @David:

    It will come down to Gingrich and Paul—a battle for the soul of the Republican Party and because Gingrich is Village-adjacent he’ll win the nomination.

    Well… Gingrich vs Paul isn’t even a contest. They hate Ron Paul, think he’s a blame-America-first unpatriotic traitor to the flag.

  17. 17.

    Cacti

    May 18, 2011 at 10:14 am

    @Chris:

    Well… Gingrich vs Paul isn’t even a contest

    Ron Paul won’t contend for shite. He’s a straight up vanity candidate. The Dennis Kucinich of the right.

  18. 18.

    WereBear

    May 18, 2011 at 10:17 am

    @Zifnab: Wild thing, I think I love you. But I want to know for sure!

    This is KEY. And we don’t have to sit around and whine “why don’t the Democrats do it,” either. We can do it ourselves! And I think we should, when things heat up, and people are paying attention, and Facebook/politics gets hot.

    I’ve been doing iMovie, and I’ve done voice-over work, so I volunteer for smacking it together if people want to stay alert for clips, emails, and such.

  19. 19.

    Gravenstone

    May 18, 2011 at 10:19 am

    I thought earlier consensus was that Bachmann entering the race would be the kiss of death for Pawlenty, at least? Since she’d suck up all the available oxygen (and regional love, such as it is)for him in Iowa, he’d have an even steeper hill to climb elsewhere. I tend to agree with jgabriel that she’s positioning hersekf for the VP sweepstakes.

  20. 20.

    MattF

    May 18, 2011 at 10:24 am

    I just don’t know, and I’m starting to really not care. It all seems to depend on the length of Matt Drudge’s attention span, and I’m just not interested in that.

  21. 21.

    beltane

    May 18, 2011 at 10:28 am

    @Michael57: Yes she can. The organization already exists in the form of the evangelical megachurch cartel. With Huckabee out of the picture, Bachmann is the only acceptable candidate.

  22. 22.

    cleek

    May 18, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Gingrich isn’t even ready for prime-time yet. he’s bumbling around like Chevy Chase doing Gerald Ford.

  23. 23.

    Scott P.

    May 18, 2011 at 10:33 am

    Iowa and South Carolina aren’t nearly enough to win the Republican primary. Over the same time span, New Hampshire, Michigan, Nevada and Wyoming all elect delegates.

  24. 24.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 10:34 am

    If they can resist the lure of moving right to compete for her base, which would backfire, she’ll serve as a lightning rod and make them more appealing to general election voters.

    That’s a mighty big “if”. Has there been a Republican politician of note in the last 30 years who’s been able to resist moving right to appease the hard-right base?

    Also, too, note how this debate is always framed to favor Republicans: if there were ever to be a very left-wing, crazy politician in the running for the Democratic nomination, that person’s very presence would be considered to infect all the other Democrats, there’d be daily demands on the rest of the field to denounce the left-winger and distance themselves, and the whole thing would be taken as proof that the entire Democratic Party was still stuck in the Sixties.

    But the presence of an extreme, unbalanced right-winger only serves as an appealing contrast for the rest of their field. Are Daniels, Pawlenty, etc. going to be asked by reporters to denounce Bachmann as proof of their Seriousness? Is her candidacy considered proof that the GOP has devolved into a clown show with more garish makeup? Of course not. In the end it’s all Good News for John McCain!

  25. 25.

    Zifnab

    May 18, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Gingrich is trolling for contributions. He’s getting in on Palin’s game. Sign a book deal. Get media spotlight. Live the high life on the campaign trail. He’s not interested in the Presidency, just running the con.

  26. 26.

    Redshift

    May 18, 2011 at 10:35 am

    @Robert Waldmann:

    Does not compute. You think it is worse for candidates to say that regulating potatoes is constitutional than to say how they plan to slash Medicare to give tax cuts to the rich ?

    Medicaid, not Medicare. They were stupid enough to go after Medicare, but Medicaid isn’t the same third rail. It’s in genuine danger because it’s easily demagogued as going to “undeserving” people, so it doesn’t carry the same political price, and since it’s a component of “Obamacare,” it’s also a way to undermine that for political points.

  27. 27.

    jwb

    May 18, 2011 at 10:37 am

    @Redshift: That may be true of the optics, but not of reality: the vast majority of Medicaid funding goes to the oldsters (nursing home care).

  28. 28.

    Zifnab

    May 18, 2011 at 10:37 am

    @Stefan:

    if there were ever to be a very left-wing, crazy politician in the running for the Democratic nomination…

    You mean Kuccinich? Or Mike Gravel? Or Howard Dean? Or Al Sharpton? All contenders at some point.

  29. 29.

    jibeaux

    May 18, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Since I don’t have the door that leads to the alternate reality that right-wingers have, I’m completely hopeless at making predictions regarding what they’ll do or how RWNJ #1 will affect RWNJ #2. It’s completely illogical, but not in the way that suggests a Cain/Bachmann ticket because that would have a certain logic to it, i.e. craziest = winning. But I think it’s going to be entertaining to watch.

  30. 30.

    Loneoak

    May 18, 2011 at 10:46 am

    Maddow’s discussion of the clown car last night was very solid, especially the Man Cave discussion of Daniels’ misogyny. She cracks open a Bud and talks about pap smears.

    I would so visit Maddow’s Man Cave.

  31. 31.

    jwb

    May 18, 2011 at 10:50 am

    @jibeaux: It would be entertaining right up to the moment that Cain/Bachmann managed to win the election. I agree that the crazier the Gooper candidate, the easier time Obama has in winning reelection and the better shot the Dems have of holding the Senate and taking back the House; but given the state of the economy, which once the US government defaults on its debt and the states get done hacking away at their budgets is only going to be in worse shape come fall, even totally insane has a not negligible shot at winning in 2012. Personally, I’m hoping that the Rapture will come on Saturday and take all the crazy away by next October, leaving the rest of us here on Earth to fester in our liberal Hell. Sounds like Paradise to me.

  32. 32.

    maya

    May 18, 2011 at 10:52 am

    I like the idea of an all Minnesotian ticket in 2012.

    Go Bachmann / Bullwinkle!

  33. 33.

    jibeaux

    May 18, 2011 at 10:53 am

    @jwb:

    Also too: LOOTING! Hells yeah!

  34. 34.

    Feudalism Now!

    May 18, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Who gets the Koch money? That will be your nominee. Who will be able to achieve the goals of our Corporatist oligarchy best? Bachmann is too crazy, she is good as a distraction but too easily mocked as a loon. Mittens is always a bridesmaid never a bride. Pawlenty faded into the background even against the nuts in the first ‘debate’. I think Mitch Daniels emerges as the ‘serious conservative’. Cain gets the veep nom.

  35. 35.

    Ghanima Atreides

    May 18, 2011 at 11:00 am

    the Leviathan stirs.

  36. 36.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 11:00 am

    You mean Kuccinich? Or Mike Gravel? Or Howard Dean? Or Al Sharpton? All contenders at some point.

    You’ll note I actually said “if there were ever to be a very left-wing, crazy politician in the running for the Democratic nomination…”

    None of those people are mentally unbalanced or even very left-wing. I realized we’ve moved the Overton Window way to the right the last thirty years, but by what standards is, say, Howard Dean considered “very left-wing”? And certainly none of them have the unbalanced lunacy, the sheer operatic defiance of reality, that is Michele Bachmann.

  37. 37.

    Cat Lady

    May 18, 2011 at 11:01 am

    I thought Barbour had a real shot at the nom before he decided to drop out, but I think it’s beginning to gel around Romney. He can raise money, and the money boys prefer him. He can win in New Hampshire, and his Mormonism gives him some traction in the west. The only way he energizes the teatards is to early on announce he’ll choose Bachmann as his VP, and if she agrees, that’s how they thread the needle for the primaries then the general.

  38. 38.

    Lol

    May 18, 2011 at 11:01 am

    @4: This is a good point. Organization in Iowa is why Dean finished third and Kerry finished first. Obama picked up a lot of the key people behind Kerry’s Iowa success for his own Iowa campaign.

    Nothing I’ve seen suggests any sort of staffing much less organizational competence on Bachman’s part.

  39. 39.

    Chris

    May 18, 2011 at 11:01 am

    @Feudalism Now!:

    Who gets the Koch money? That will be your nominee.

    It’s not entirely manufactured that simply, is it? Candidates need Koch money in order to make it, but the Kochs also need to keep track of who’s viable and who’s not.

  40. 40.

    Feudalism Now!

    May 18, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Also, too. Newt is done. He won’t even be eligible for wing nut welfare. The whole Tiffany’s debt is the opening salvo of his masters displeasure.

  41. 41.

    Loneoak

    May 18, 2011 at 11:02 am

    @Stefan:

    Come on now, Mike Gravel is clearly unbalanced.

  42. 42.

    JGabriel

    May 18, 2011 at 11:03 am

    @Zifnab:

    You mean Kuccinich? Or Mike Gravel? Or Howard Dean? Or Al Sharpton? All contenders at some point.

    Dean isn’t far left or crazy. The other three were never contenders despite their ambitions.

    .

  43. 43.

    Kirk Spencer

    May 18, 2011 at 11:05 am

    Bachmann has the potential to be the national Sharon Angle.

    The racist component of the current GOP will veto Cain, even though he is in complete agreement with almost all their stances. Legitimizing him legitimizes Obama in their eyes.

    Daniels has a chance. He’s also looked at with a bit of concern by the base as he talked about compromising on both the union and the abortion issues.

    Pawlenty is the current preference of the dominionists. They don’t really like him, but he’s the closest to being one of theirs that’s in the race at this time.

    Paul offends the nativists by demanding we pull out of foreign wars, the dominionists by insisting religion is not important, and the corporatists by demanding we go to a gold standard. There’s a reason he keeps ending up with 2-5% of the Republican vote in the national race.

    Romney and Huntsman aren’t liked by the domionists (not true Christians) and the nativists (flipflopping, even if it’s merely by willingly serving in the Obama administration). Corporatists like them both, but the vetoes from the other two legs will stop them.

    The potential candidate I’m watching is Perry. As with half a dozen other people he’s quietly examining the possibility. Of the ones of which I’m aware, he’s the strongest — despite the secessionist speech.

  44. 44.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 11:05 am

    I thought Barbour had a real shot at the nom before he decided to drop out,

    He’da done it, too, ifn’ it haddn’a been for them Duke boys.

  45. 45.

    JGabriel

    May 18, 2011 at 11:05 am

    @Chris:

    Candidates need Koch money in order to make it, but the Kochs also need to keep track of who’s viable and who’s not.

    Not really. The Kochs are perfectly fine with giving money to non-viable candidates if they help push the center to the right.

    .

  46. 46.

    Violet

    May 18, 2011 at 11:05 am

    @Zifnab:

    Gingrich is trolling for contributions. He’s getting in on Palin’s game. Sign a book deal. Get media spotlight. Live the high life on the campaign trail. He’s not interested in the Presidency, just running the con.

    Newt’s been “writing” selling books, raking in money on the wingnut welfare speech-giving circuit and threatening to run for president ever since he left Congress. None of that is new. The new thing is he has actually put his hat in the ring. If he just wanted to run the con he’d continue doing everything he’s done before and then “decide not to run this election” again. Why’d he pick now to run?

  47. 47.

    Ghanima Atreides

    May 18, 2011 at 11:06 am

    @Stefan: Dean was the front runner until he got on tv and the electorate saw how short he was. And the Dean Scream killed him. Now Daniels has the same problem. People wont admit they are not voting for a candidate because of shortness, but they do.

    look for the Village to pin their hopes on Huntsman.

  48. 48.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Come on now, Mike Gravel is clearly unbalanced.

    Evidence? At the time of the 2008 race Gravel was 78, so I concede he may have had some senior moments and was inevitably losing mental agility due to aging, but “unbalanced”? Crazy? Based on what?

  49. 49.

    Zifnab

    May 18, 2011 at 11:08 am

    @Stefan:

    I realized we’ve moved the Overton Window way to the right the last thirty years, but by what standards is, say, Howard Dean considered “very left-wing”?

    If the former governor of Vermont, an avowed anti-war activist, single payer adherent, civil libertarian, and tax-the-rich progressive isn’t “very left-wing” I honestly don’t know what metric you’re running on.

    No, he’s not a Trotsky USSR revolutionary. But I’d be hard pressed to find a politician more liberal shy of Russ Feingold.

  50. 50.

    Villago Delenda Est

    May 18, 2011 at 11:09 am

    @Violet:

    Why’d he pick now to run?

    Because the vein he’s been mining has been tapped out. Not to worry…he’s set up an apparatus so that much of the money spent on his campaign actually flows back to him. But he had to fish or cut bait this time, so he’s fishing.

  51. 51.

    jwb

    May 18, 2011 at 11:12 am

    @Kirk Spencer: That secessionist speech will kill him, and he’s not well liked even by a good chunk of the Goopers in Texas. It’s possible he’ll get the VP—but only if the Goopers go into complete meltdown and want to shore up the South for the House and Senate races.

  52. 52.

    Feudalism Now!

    May 18, 2011 at 11:13 am

    We are early in the race. Real money has not been committed. The tale is still being crafted. We are in the creation phase of the Mitch Daniels myth of Conservative Übermensch. He can stay back and let the crazy tire the media out and then he comes in as the savior of serious governance. He has a proven track record of achieving Koch and their ilk’s goals. He has done this and not been tarnished like Walker. Bachmann is not a viable general election candidate, she is their to keep the platform nice and right during the primary season. Lots of media attention on the gaff of the moment and the ‘power of the Tea Party’. All things going forward, even a loss of the white house is a win. Gridlocked governance is almost as good as dismantled governance. Entropy prevails and goals are achieved in budget strapped states and towns.

  53. 53.

    me

    May 18, 2011 at 11:20 am

    “the base” -> Arabic -> “al-qaeda”

    Michelle Bachmann’s candidacy makes more sense in that context.

  54. 54.

    Loneoak

    May 18, 2011 at 11:20 am

    @Stefan:

    Come on now, Mike Gravel is clearly unbalanced.

    Evidence? At the time of the 2008 race Gravel was 78, so I concede he may have had some senior moments and was inevitably losing mental agility due to aging, but “unbalanced”? Crazy? Based on what?

    Did you see his commercials? That rock commercial is surrealist art, not a campaign advertisement.

  55. 55.

    MagicPanda

    May 18, 2011 at 11:25 am

    @Kirk Spencer: I have this weird feeling that Michele Bachmann has been in the national media crucible for so long that she has gotten good at deflecting criticism for being crazy. She will keep staying stupid stuff, her base will eat it up, and when she gets made fun of, she will move on to the next crazy thing.

    If anything, she may have a Sarah Palin moment — where the media decides collectively to stop paying attention — but that’s kind of different than Sharron Angle, who said a couple stupid things, got slammed for them, and then went cowering in a corner.

  56. 56.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 11:30 am

    If the former governor of Vermont, an avowed anti-war activist, single payer adherent, civil libertarian, and tax-the-rich progressive isn’t “very left-wing” I honestly don’t know what metric you’re running on. No, he’s not a Trotsky USSR revolutionary. But I’d be hard pressed to find a politician more liberal shy of Russ Feingold.

    Thank you for illustrating my point, which is that our political discourse has moved so far to the right that positions which previously would have been identified as fairly moderate-mainstream liberal are now considered “far left-wing.” How are his positions that you mentioned above — anti aggressive war, and pro civil liberties, universal health care, and progressive taxation — not standard liberal Democratic orthodoxy?

    Seriously, someone who believes in not attacking other countries without cause, and who believes in the Bill of Rights and in not letting our fellow citizens die in the streets, is now considered “far left-wing” instead of a rather boring, moderate liberal? How far we’ve come….

  57. 57.

    Ash Can

    May 18, 2011 at 11:31 am

    @Loneoak: In subsequent interviews Gravel made it clear that he knew it was a performance art piece, and that he had fun working with the art students who produced it. To me it seemed like a quirky little lark for him that the press, as is their wont, blew all out of proportion.

  58. 58.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Why’d he pick now to run?

    You can’t keep flirting forever, or your target rubes are eventually going to figure it out. I think Gingrich thought that if he didn’t put out a bit now he’d be revealed as the cock-tease he’s always been.

  59. 59.

    MagicPanda

    May 18, 2011 at 11:34 am

    @Stefan: Totally agree. Kucinich might be closer to “very left-wing” but even he isn’t as extreme was the far right-wing.

  60. 60.

    Juicetard (FKA Liberty60)

    May 18, 2011 at 11:35 am

    @Chris: Any comment that quotes your words is a lie.

  61. 61.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Also, too, Howard Dean is not “an avowed anti-war activist” — while it’s true he opposed the Iraq War (with good reason), he’s often been more hawkish than many of his fellow Democrats. He supported the US interventions in Bosnia and Kosovo, and has also supported the Obama administration’s campaign in Libya and, until very recently, the war in Afghanistan. Just because he opposes stupid and illegal wars doesn’t mean he opposes all wars.

  62. 62.

    ppcli

    May 18, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Evidence? At the time of the 2008 race Gravel was 78, so I concede he may have had some senior moments and was inevitably losing mental agility due to aging, but “unbalanced”? Crazy? Based on what?

    Well, there was that NPR interview where he went on and on about how wonderful Sarah Palin is.

  63. 63.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 11:40 am

    Totally agree. Kucinich might be closer to “very left-wing” but even he isn’t as extreme was the far right-wing.

    There isn’t, in fact, any Democratic politician who’s as far left-wing as the Republicans have become far right-wing. To match them in extremism Democrats would pretty much have to start spouting Trotskyite revolutionary rhetorict. We now have one very far right-wing, radical party balanced by one moderate, liberal to center-right party. There’s no left-wing alternative for American voters.

  64. 64.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Well, there was that NPR interview where he went on and on about how wonderful Sarah Palin is.

    Eh, they’re both from Alaska and he’s a 78 year old man going on about a pretty young woman who’s charmed him. It happens.

    Bachmann, on the other hand, is in the prime of life. She doesn’t have the excuse of senile dementia.

  65. 65.

    grandpajohn

    May 18, 2011 at 11:50 am

    @jwb:

    the vast majority of Medicaid funding goes to the oldsters (nursing home care).
    ReplyR

    And you can bet that they and their families know that. Plus how many of the average voters can or will make a distinction between medicare and medicaid. all they know is that both of them start with a W

  66. 66.

    Juicetard (FKA Liberty60)

    May 18, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Was browsing some blogs in Wingnuttia this morning- the teatards are most definitely NOT happy with Daniels…or Newt…or Romney…or Huntsman.

    If Wall Street wants a “serious” candidate that can mobilize the base to GOTV, they have got their work cut out for them.

    If they want to convince sane America that Bachmann or Cain is “serious”- they have an even steeper hill to climb.

    In any case- we are indeed living in interesting times.

  67. 67.

    Cris (without an H)

    May 18, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    @Stefan: There isn’t, in fact, any Democratic politician who’s as far left-wing as the Republicans have become far right-wing.

    Bernie Sanders? I don’t know, I’m asking.

  68. 68.

    nitpicker

    May 18, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Here’s how this could actually work, if any Republican had the balls to try it. In a debate, one of the saner Republicans would turn to Bachmann after a particularly looney answer and say, “Holy crap! That is just batshit crazy! (Or a more diplomatic version of same.) We have actual issues to deal with here, it doesn’t help our party when someone runs around spreading stories about ‘re-education camps’ and ‘$200 million trips to India.'”

    The problem is, no one will actually do that, since you have to have the crazies on your team to win in the Republican party…

  69. 69.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Bernie Sanders? I don’t know, I’m asking.

    Bernie Sanders isn’t a Democrat.

  70. 70.

    Cris (without an H)

    May 18, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    @Stefan: Ah, right, I forgot. For some reason I had thought he took on the D when he ran for Senate.

  71. 71.

    catclub

    May 18, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    @jwb: “That secessionist speech will kill him.”

    Just like Todd Palin being in the Alaska Independence party killed
    Palin’s chances with Republicans? I missed that part.

  72. 72.

    Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus)

    May 18, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    @Stefan:
    Which is why Republican national achievements have consisted of ‘slow down a tidal wave of progressive legislation’ in the last two years. They’ve gotten so completely batshit nuts that they took the House in a standard backlash election and can’t do anything with it. ANYTHING. They’re too crazy to even have negotiating power.

    They’re very, very, very good at whooping like howler monkeys in front of the media. I do not consider this a skill worth giving up everything else.

  73. 73.

    Fred

    May 18, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Bachmann?! Oh Pulllleasse!

    You can’t be serious. I know there are a lot of dumb fucks who will vote in the primaries but Bachmann has zero chance.

    So either:
    A) you are trying to insult our intelligence with these ‘dramatic’ arguments.

    B) You are clueless.

    She may be able to get the farmers to buy her brand of crazy in Iowa but the vast majority of the country would rather vote for a garden tool.

  74. 74.

    OzoneR

    May 18, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    @Stefan:

    if there were ever to be a very left-wing, crazy politician in the running for the Democratic nomination, that person’s very presence would be considered to infect all the other Democrats, there’d be daily demands on the rest of the field to denounce the left-winger and distance themselves, and the whole thing would be taken as proof that the entire Democratic Party was still stuck in the Sixties.

    If? Kucinich, Gravel, Sharpton?

  75. 75.

    EconWatcher

    May 18, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    @jwb:

    This.

    If the timing is right (or wrong), anyone, and I mean anyone, who is the nominee of either major party can win.

    We should hope for the sanest opposition candidate possible. I have kids. I want them to have a country to grow up in.

  76. 76.

    Judas Escargot

    May 18, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    But who, who will protect Americans from Big Potato?

  77. 77.

    Lol

    May 18, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    Dean as Governor of Vermont was a lot more moderate than anyone would like to admit. It was solely because of his opposition to the Iraq War that he became regarded as a super-lefty by both the right and the left.

  78. 78.

    catclub

    May 18, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Rick Perry and Steve Benen’s view:
    “(b) Perry reconsiders, unless there’s a secret reason he’s afraid of national scrutiny.

    Boy do I miss Molly Ivins!

  79. 79.

    Feudalism Now!

    May 18, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Bachmann Teaparty Overdrive will become ‘too important’ to setting the House agenda and keeping the ideals of the Tea Party alive in Congress or some such horse pucky. There is no way to turn her into a viable general election contender this cycle. Keep pushing to the right and she becomes viable, but not this cycle.

  80. 80.

    Chris

    May 18, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    @Stefan:

    Thank you for illustrating my point, which is that our political discourse has moved so far to the right that positions which previously would have been identified as fairly moderate-mainstream liberal are now considered “far left-wing.” How are his positions that you mentioned above—anti aggressive war, and pro civil liberties, universal health care, and progressive taxation—not standard liberal Democratic orthodoxy?

    Returning late, but this. Everything listed was a basic liberal position, none of it “extreme” by any stretch of the imagination.

    @Stefan:

    There isn’t, in fact, any Democratic politician who’s as far left-wing as the Republicans have become far right-wing. To match them in extremism Democrats would pretty much have to start spouting Trotskyite revolutionary rhetorict. We now have one very far right-wing, radical party balanced by one moderate, liberal to center-right party. There’s no left-wing alternative for American voters.

    Yep.

    And the country’s a poorer place for it.

    I’ll add that even if you do occasionally have Bernie Sanders or Dennis Kucinich types which begin to approach “far left” platforms, the rest of the party doesn’t feel inclined to follow them: on the contrary, they distance themselves and tattoo “I AM NOT BERNIE SANDERS, BERNIE SANDERS IS TOO LIBERAL FOR ME” in capital letters on their foreheads. The exact opposite happens in the GOP, where the worst electoral defeat of a generation in 2008 was followed by a soul-searching and conclusion that “we need to be more conservative.”

  81. 81.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    If? Kucinich, Gravel, Sharpton?

    Read the rest of the thread before commenting. This has already been discussed above.

  82. 82.

    Stefan

    May 18, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    If? Kucinich, Gravel, Sharpton?

    OK, I can’t resist, what the hell:

    Kucinich: very liberal, but not crazy or an extremist.

    Mike Gravel: not an extremist, not crazy, not a serious contender.

    Sharpton: not a serious contender, obviously never part of the Democratic Party mainstream the way that extremist loons such as Bachman are part of the GOP mainstream.

    To play this game, you have to come up with politicians who are (i) mentally unbalanced, (ii) very left-wing extremist (i.e. being merely liberal isn’t enough), (iii) part of the Democratic mainstream and accorded respect both by their party’s leadership and base voters, and (iv) regularly invited on news shows, discussed as a plausible candidate, etc., to the same extent as Michele Bachmann is. I contend you can’t find anyone.

  83. 83.

    Shoemaker-Levy 9

    May 18, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    the serious candidates will be responding to all the dumb shit that Bachmann and Gingrich bring to the table.

    This is sort of the same reasoning behind my quest to start asking pundits and candidates, “can Herman Cain win?” Why aren’t they talking about him as one of the “serious”?

    1. He has the ideology down pat.
    2. He’s a good public speaker.
    3. He won the only debate so far.
    4. He has a business background.
    5. If he has a stash of bimbos somewhere they haven’t come to light yet.

    So we need to ask the pundits and pols over and over again, “why is Herman Cain not the frontrunner?”

  84. 84.

    El Cid

    May 18, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    I had no idea Herman Cain had been a director of a Federal Reserve bank.

    This in itself, though, should make him the blood enemy of the Ronpaulrevolutionaries, as the Federal Reserve is the root of nearly all evil.

  85. 85.

    Feudalism Now!

    May 18, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    Mr. Steele ensured that Cain won’t get the nomination. There is too much melanin phobia in Das Rightwing to allow it.

  86. 86.

    Carl Nyberg

    May 18, 2011 at 3:17 pm

    If Bachmann carries Iowa, which seems like the most likely outcome, are “My Man Mitch” and T-Paw even viable?

    If the former governor of Minnesota can’t carry Iowa, how likely is it he will rebound in the Granite State, the Palmetto State or the Silver State?

    Same question to the governor of Indiana.

    I suppose, in theory, Republican candidates with mainstream cred could court Democrats to participate in the Iowa Caucus, but in practice it seems like it would be toxic in later primaries.

    Bachmann is a real problem for Daniels and Pawlenty.

    However, I think she may be a blessing for Huntsman. If a Right Wing freak knocks Daniels and T-Paw out in Iowa and a different Right Wing freak (Ron Paul?) dispatches Romney in NH and Huntsman beats Romney in Nevada, Huntsman could get the nomination.

  87. 87.

    robert

    May 18, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    Bring em on! The more nutjobs the better, Demos will have an easy sale in 2012! The Right wing, tea party dingbats,etc.. will Bury them selfs! They dig a little deeper every time one of em Opens there mouths! Trump> GasBag, Palin> Half a Govenor, Huckabee> Fox preacher Puppet, and the list goes on! If it was’nt for all the Racist Asswipes, our country would’nt be in quite the shape it is! These people will piss away “OUR COUNTRY” just too see our President Fail Because he’s Black! Wow! Shame on these people…May they all rot in Hell! HEY, JOHN B. WHERE ARE THE JOBS!!!!!!!!! No one cares about the little man anymore…it’s all about the money,power,greed,and so on! Shame,shame,shame! One day this will come back to bite us all in the ass!

  88. 88.

    Carl Nyberg

    May 18, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Say Bachmann wins Iowa and Romney wins NH, what next.

    I assume the field will not include Daniels and T-Paw at that point.

    Who will win South Carolina? Bachmann? Cain?

    Who will win Nevada? Huntsman? Romney? Bachmann?

    If it comes down to Romney vs. Bachmann in a slugfest, what happens? Will Ron Paul be the kingmaker?

    With Paul in the race, Romney will win. If Paul throws his support to Bachmann, Romney and the GOP have a problem.

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