Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels won’t seek the 2012 Republican presidential nomination, a decision that could well throw the field open to other late entrants.
I hope they put Bobo on suicide watch for a few days to be on the safe side.
by DougJ| 279 Comments
This post is in: Politics
Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels won’t seek the 2012 Republican presidential nomination, a decision that could well throw the field open to other late entrants.
I hope they put Bobo on suicide watch for a few days to be on the safe side.
Comments are closed.
JGabriel
DougJ:
I hope they don’t.
.
Tom Levenson
What they do, not what they say. If Daniels isn’t running, it’s because he sees real trouble ahead for the GOP.
Given the structural problems facing Obama, particularly a still-sucky economy, this suggests that we all have a lot to thank Paul Ryan for– with a little extra nod to Govs Walker, Kasich and Scott.
hildebrand
Yet another sane person thinking, “I am not going to be the Walter Mondale of 2012.”
Baud
2016 is going to be an immense free for all. There is going to be a lot of pent up energy on both sides of the aisle. (Assuming Obama wins in 2012 of course. I hope that’s never in serious doubt, but that it’s sufficiently competitive that folks aren’t complacent.)
mistermix
What is our country coming to? It’s a sad day for America. We have too many litmus tests, blah blah fucking blah.
It’s cold, and rough.
Poopyman
You mean to guarantee he goes through with it, right?
Poopyman
Thanks mistermix! Seems like everybody wakes up the same time around here.
arguingwithsignposts
Iirc, the sunday shows are taped, right? How delicious if those bozos are still pimping a daniels candidacy today.
Poopyman
What this blog needs is a frontpager in Europe. Or Iceland.
Yeah. Iceland.
Poopyman
@arguingwithsignposts: Dunno how early they tape. I got the impression it was earlier Sunday AM, but there’s probably a backup plan with “F@ck it! We’ll do it live!” Of course, I can only imagine the terror that an unscripted interview would induce in Dancin’ Dave.
PeakVT
I’ve put together a map of Grímsvötn and the surrounding region for anyone who wants to more details.
srv
The vote on the Ryan plan was the wingularity.
Punchy
But what’s Sullivan’s thoughts on long division?
Anya
I guess he could not subject his family to the nasty wingut attacks. What the Bushies did to McCain would have been mild compared to attacks that awaited Daniels and his wife, if he chose to run.
PeakVT
@Punchy: The link to Silly Sully has been moved to the correct section, so the FPers may be over their obsession.
Cat Lady
Bachmann’s just got to announce now. Romney v. Pawlenty is booooorrrrrinnnnnng. She’s gotta see nothing but open field to the right as far as she can see now. Run Crazy Eyes Run!
Baud
BTW, can anyone translate this:
Keith G
@Baud: This.
After we work our butts off getting Obama elected, the real fun begins.
Cat Lady
@Baud:
He means his wife and 4 children (all daughters) have the final say in what he does. I actually thought that was a clever way of saying that his family comes first – whether it’s true or not, it’s a good description.
Scott
@17
Yes, he is saying if the majority of women in his family veto something, it’s veto’ed.
I would like to say it’s different in my family.
Baud
@Cat Lady: The “all daughters” information is helpful. It otherwise sounded like a “blame the women folk” type of argument.
Poopyman
@Baud: “The wife said no.”
Poopyman
@Scott: Yeah, and I would like to say I won a hundred million in the lottery.
Buuuuuut ….
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Poopyman:
Fix’t. There’s no way anyone would want to relive that time of their life and between the press and the crazies on the right, she’s right.
Chris
Hm, I wonder how often the media will note that Daniels’ family concerns are driven by the fear of attacks in the primary – by the campaigns of other Republicans – as opposed to a fear of attacks in the general election, by the Obama campaign team.
Since, as we’ve been hearing for years, the Obama team ruthlessly attacks Republicans, Chicago-style, at every turn.
/sarcasm
(I’m not saying Obama’s campaign should attack Daniels over this; I’m saying that Republicans are equally skilled at two key campaign tactics: whining about anticipated Democratic attacks, and making the media ignore their own roles as attacking other people, Democrat or Republican.)
Anya
What do I do to get rid of the unpleasant picture of snowbilly grifter staring at me? Should I vote yes to “Should Sarah Run?”
Walter
They are paving the way for Huntsman. The media will push him and Whites, liberals and conservatives, will vote for him, because he’s white and not Obama. Never mind the fact that he’s a Billionaire Mormon Republican that will stock the the Supreme court with extreme right wing activist. He will be just a puppet for right wing extremisim but that’s Okay He’s a good guy. Did I mention he’s white and therefore he’s looks Presidential. Dumb asses.
Maude
Gail Collins, come to the courtesy phone, please.
wonkie
I’m willig to accept the explanation Daniels gave: that his wife vetoed the idea ad that he resepcts her wishes. There doesn’t have to be more than that to it.
I am glad he is out. He was the figleaf candidate, the candidate the Beltway psuedopundits were usig to preted to themselves ads everyone else that the Republica party is resepctable and has ideas. Now the Rethugs either have to ominate a known flake or an obvious fake. (
Cat Lady
Daniels also needed to announce this week if he was getting in to start raising the boatloads of cash he’ll need to run. Another factor in his decision not to run, if hadn’t made up his mind yet, is the sixteen stitches to that enormous forehead. That’s not a way to make an introduction – “Hi – I’m Mitch. I’m tiny, homely, cuckolded and clumsy, and I want to be your next President.” Optics are important.
JGabriel
@PeakVT:
Thanks, I didn’t even know that Grimsvötn is erupting again.
For those of you haven’t heard of Grimsvötn before, it’s pretty much the definition of the phrase fire and ice: that is to say, it’s an Icelandic volcano that sits beneath the Vatnajökull glacier.
.
JGabriel
Hep! I been moderatered!
Cat Lady
@Walter:
Don’t Romney and Huntsman cancel each other out? Romney’s not just going to walk away.
Anya
Is anyone planning on watching the President’s AIPAC speech, this morning?
dmsilev
@Walter: Huntsman will have real trouble winning the primary. Never mind the Mormon thing or anything he did as governor that violates contemporary conservative pravda, he spent two years working for That One. Game over. Any primary opponent is going to open up debates with things like “Well, Jon, while you were serving in the Obama administration, I was busy forcing orphans to work in poorhouses.”.
amk
Let them ring in the shrub sr’s second term. quail is still around, right ?
Anne Laurie
Potential Presidential Candidate Mitch Daniels Receives Sixteen Stitches After Head WoundAny bets on which late-night comedian will be the first to go there, even though we all know that domestic violence is no joking matter?
Jay C
@Walter:
Jon Huntsman might look Presidential – at least in that looks-like-an-actor-who-plays-the-President-on-TV way Americans seem to go for: but then, so does Barack Obama. And Obama is pretty damn good at the looking/acting Presidential bit: the next election isn’t going to be decided on appearances, IMO (for which Obama deserves the Thanks Of The Nation), but on issues – for a change. Whatever the electorate might think of No. 44, the Opposition is going to have to put up a credible candidate to have a chance to win. And given the buffoon-circus the Republican Party has turned into (on the national level, anyway): the GOP PTB might just have decided to give 2012 a pass (like they did in 1936).
Who the Wendell Willkie of 2016 will be is still an open question, though… Hopefully (for the Repubs), it will be someone like Huntsman or Daniels.
amk
@Cat Lady: the guy is don knots doppelganger.
May be that bang on his head knocked some sense into him.
hildebrand
Some extended family members (and certified right-wing types) are now starting to say nice things about Herman Cain – can somebody please direct me to a solid article that takes apart his nonsense. I should just google/bing but I don’t have the stomach to wade through too much foolishness.
Ked
As a proud Hoosier, and not bitter at all about Mitch trashing the state’s time zone, selling the toll road to the lowest bidder (after which the rates were raised by 300%), and excited by the “moderate” approach with which he has governed the state through this fabulous recession (local county unemployment hit 14%), all I have to say is,
“Good riddance.”
stuckinred
Stumbled out for out first morning in Savannah and found that there is an anti-Phelps gig going on as the Westboro’s come to protest this tolerant Southern city!
kindness
‘Bobo on a suicide watch’…Where can those of us with the big “JUMP” signs go to prompt Bobo to do it?
JR (not the other JR)
B-But… he’s so tan and handsome!
Anya
@Ked: He sounds such a wingnuty disaster, why is his approval so high?
Ghanima Atreides
@Cat Lady: its on. the mormon/mormon death match.
This means Palin’s bellyfire is going to propel her into the race.
The First Law of white christian voting– While mormons will vote for evangelicals, evangelicals will not vote for mormons.
Huck bowing out means there must be a
goodnon-mormon christian in the race. Palin has a lot more name recognition than Bachman.How about a Palin/GaJo ticket?
Valdivia
@Anya:
wondering the same thing.
JPL
@hildebrand: Herman Cain is for the unfair tax. My friend said something positive about him and I said I wasn’t for regressive taxation. When she replied that the sales tax wasn’t regressive, I did point out that if the taxes were lowered for millionaires and billionaires that actually meant the middle class paid more. If you earn 50,000 dollars, you don’t have much room for investing and savings but if you earn 500,000 you would.
martha
Who says Daniels’ wife was the only one to say “no way in hell”? Four daughters? Good grief. At least 2 of them must be smarter than he is and know the score. They would have been savaged by Drudge et al for months.
OT, think good thoughts for us. We’re about to set up our first bee hive this morning. DH just picked up the bee package + queen. Eeeek! This will either be the best comedy skit of all time, a trip to the emergency room, or the beginning of a fun hobby.
Comrade Javamanphil
I’d vote for Liz Phair.
Mike in NC
Now the Villagers are going to start to take a ‘serious’ look at the prospects of Jeb Bush, right?
Woody
The eventual GOP presidential slate will feature Mitt! (maybe TPaw) with one of the Tea kooks. They’ll have and raise plenty of money, but the real dollars (i.e. Citizens United enabled money) will go to Congressional races – to gain the Senate perhaps, but to definitely hold the House.
I believe the Galtian Overlords will allow this as they will give up little (smart money is on the Obama re-elect anyway – they can certainly afford to waste a little cash to prove bona-fides; but they won’t commit serious money on a quixotic adventure) but they will be able to re-establish their complete control over the kooks (by giving them a “chance”) plus get rid of Mitt!’s eternal candidacy.
Meanwhile, Fox and Rush will be foaming at the mouth starting with the swearing-in ceremony, which always results in ratings and Villager giggly tumescence.
(I’ll add that aside from Hillary, the Democrats have a pretty thin field after Obama in ’16 as well)
Valdivia
Hunstman is only doing this to get out there for 2016, I am sure he would like to win but know he cant this time around.
There’s going to be too much footage of him in China, giving interviews doing Obama’s bidding, being with Obama and defending him over there so I really just don’t see how he gets out of the primary.
Omnes Omnibus
@martha: Have fun with the bees, but keep them the hell away from me. I was swarmed by hornets when I was eight and have had a, what’s a stronger word than phobia, of hive based stinging insects ever since.
Linda Featheringill
@Anya:
AIPAC speech: Didn’t know about it. Thanks. C-Span has it scheduled for 10:30.
And yes, I would like to watch that.
Omnes Omnibus
@Woody: I think that you are describing a best case for the the GOP. Obama could easily have coat tails. I cannot really imagine people voting a split ticket with O for prez and a Teanut for Congress.
bryanD
I can see it now: Daniels’ decision not to run means that if Huntsman enters the race, he will win the Republican nomination rather early and steal all of Obama’s “captive” “swing voters” in the general election.
Obama’s nightmare is a moderate Republican opponent.
Skippy-san
Unfortunately-that leaves the door open for some really disturbing people. If you thought Palin rallies in 2008 were bizarre, wait till 2012.
Linda Featheringill
@martha:
Bees:
Wonderful!
I grew up with bees and found out that bees are more likely to sting the same people that mosquitos are more likely to bite. If you guys are people these critters seem to ignore, you will probably have a good time.
Have fun!
Valdivia
@Woody:
Debbie Wasserman Schultz, for one. So not thin at all. Corey Booker. And that’s just two at the top of my head. Also, though I am not a fan, Cuomo wants to run too.
SteveinSC
@stuckinred: Savannah is a beautiful city. Eat at the Pink House, downstairs. There are plenty of places near Paula Dean’s. To eat at Paula Dean’s, though, you have to take a number. If they gave me a low number I’d ask for a much higher one to avoid all the fat and cholesterol, y’all. Romney or Huntsman, it is no matter which, since they both wear magic underwear and, of course, that won’t, um, wash in the South.
Skippy-san
@Omnes Omnibus: I can. That is essentially what happened in 2010. Congressional politics is local, and I have too many people say they like “split” government. Plus-thanks to gerrymandering and simple physical intimidation, which the teabagger excel at, a lot of these idiots are going to be hard to beat.
Take Allen West for example. He’s certifiably a douchebag-but I can’t see anyone mounting a serious challenge to him. ( I’ll give money to someone who can though-I hate that jerk).
Valdivia
hmm got moderated for using the name of the Mayor of Newark in a reply to Woody. If I do get de-moderated you could see the Dem field is actually not think at all for 2016.
Woody
One more prognostication: if it proves to be a walk for Obama in 2012, the Media coven within the Villager hive will never forgive the Democrats for it. They will have to prove their Savvy while covering a foregone conclusion without angering the Murdochs (possible source of future employment) and this will require some work. (edited for clarity)
Reagan ’84? IOKIYAR.
Chyron HR
@bryanD:
Another stunning prediction of the future from the party that told us the world was literally going to end yesterday.
Ghanima Atreides
@Valdivia: agree. Huntsman is aiming for 2016. Its kabuki. The polls all say Obama is unbeatable by any candidate the GOP can currently field.
But who is the only candidate that MUST run in 2012 (because in 2016 she will be post menopausal) ? Who is the only candidate that is incapable of 5th math?
Beware the Redneck Woman.
Omnes Omnibus
@Skippy-san: Obama was not on a ballot in 2010. Also, there are, of course, districts that Obama won’t win. Tea people will win those districts. Where Obama does win though, I think it is more likely that his presence on the ballot influences people to vote for the Democrat. Coat tails generally exist on the margins; a few voters here and there showing up and voting because he is on the ticket can make a real difference in a close contest.
martha
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks, so did my husband, which is why it’s funny he was so interested in trying this. But, we’re setting it up out at the cabin, and if it “takes” it’s perfect out there. So we’ll see. He’s a farm kid, so he’s used to wounds and such…
martha
@Linda Featheringill: Yikes! That would be me. Well, maybe I’ll be the observer from afar…
Rhoda
@Woody: Kirsten Gillibrand, Amy Klobuchar, Sherrod Brown, Deval Patrick, Kamala Harris, Jack Reed…there are a lot of good democrats out there I’d like to see throw their hat in the ring in 2016. Now, Jack Reed is probably a senator for life type…but the rest have real potential.
Valdivia
@Ghanima Atreides:
agree on that, she has to run now if she wants to run at all. Heck she is already looking weird on tv from the shots I see in some blogs. Age is not treating her kindly.
Omnes Omnibus
@martha: My grandfather kept bees for a while; he took me with him a couple of times to go do whatever it is that beekeeping involves. I stayed in the car.
ppcli
His wife was worried that he would end up loving his country as much as Gingrich did.
Anya
@Valdivia: @Linda Featheringill: I think all the cable channels will cover the speech live. They’re breathlessly waiting for the frosty reception, or if they’re lucky, the crowd might boo the President. I am sure they’ll also waiting to compare Netanyahu’s reception by the AIPAC crowd, which will no doubt be rapturous, to the one the President receives.
Davis X. Machina
I don’t give a rat’s ass about Bobo, but I am worried that traffic at Doghouse Riley’s joint will fall off, and that’s too bad.
danimal
So, who’s going to join the party? Jeb? Gov. Goodhair in Tejas? Michele! Snowzilla? All of them in an orgy of crazy? I can hardly wait.
Popcorn futures continue to rise.
Ghanima Atreides
Bachman is 55, and already post-menopausal, unless she is taking monkey hormones or skinpopping ground up palestinian babies.
Sarah is only 47 and shes whipping up the jewfire and buying a house in scottsdale.
Anya
@Valdivia: I hate Cuomo.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Baud: Yes. He just admitted publicly that he takes orders from his wife. They don’t come to decisions together. And he certainly isn’t the kind of Christian the right wants if he gives a damn what any women think.
Davis X. Machina
@danimal: Perry took himself out of the
closetrunning last week, again. (Me, I couldn’t care less. Let them run a RuPaul/Rodman ticket. But persistent rumors could cause a few small problems in the primary.)Jeb, ditto emphatically.
geg6
@Rhoda:
I’m with you, especially in regard to Brown and Gillibrand (I seem to have gotten her all wrong and am pleasantly surprised by how awesome she’s been). I’d add Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Corey Booker to that list. And I’m sure there are more, but that’s just off the top of my head.
Valdivia
@Anya:
I know I am dreaming but I wish Obama would open a can of woopass on those Likud-backing jerks. It will be interesting to see if the Village pays any attention to Livni who has been openly calling Bibi a fuck up and siding with Obama…
And yes Cuomo is an ass.
JPL
@ppcli: lol
jayackroyd
Somehow Fuck and Run comes to mind, and I’m not sure why….
Valdivia
@Ghanima Atreides:
she can make as much pro Israel noise as she wants the vast majority of jews loathe her. There are polls out there but I can tell you from personal experience that even people who hate Obama would not vote for her no matter what.
Cat Lady
“I’m about this big.”
schrodinger's cat
Has anyone checked Sully’s reaction. I am sure he is having a major sad.
SRW1
Who gives you the right to take his freedoms away?
GregB
Mitch Daniels not running is the Apocalypse.
Valdivia
@Cat Lady:
FTW. That was hilarious.
Davis X. Machina
Daniels,Huckabee,Barbour,Thune,Trump,Perry, Pence,Jindal,Corker, JebBush, andChristie…Never has so much time been spent with quite so many families.
geg6
Okay, why is the charismatic, up and coming political superstar mayor of Newark’s name a cause for moderation? WTF? This will be a problem for any discussion of him in the future as I expect him to go far.
ppcli
Test: Booker
bemused
@Anya:
Conservatives and the media treat any possible republican candidate as a wad of clay that they mold into any form they choose. If they don’t like the first (or 2nd, 3rd, 4th & so on) model, they just squash it and remold a new one pretending they never created the previous turd.
Anya
@Valdivia: I am hoping he sticks to his guns, but I am afraid the conciliator in chief will show up. At least I hope he says: friends don’t let friends drive over cliffs!
Jeff
Over the last year and a half,
a large and diverse group of peoplean increasingly panicked cadre of Washington insiders have suggested to me an ideathat I never otherwise would have consideredthat I daydreamed about constantly, that I run for President. I’ve asked for time to think it over carefully, but thesegood peoplepersistent assholes have beenvery patientcalling my home at 3AM and drunkenly begging,and I owe them an answer.I need to shut them up once and for all.The answer is
that I will not be a candidateFuck,no!.What could have been a complicated decision was in the end very simple: on matters affecting us all, our family constitution gives a veto to the women’s caucus, and there is no override provision.Cheri told me that if I run and she winds up on the cover of the National Enquirer, then I’m dead,Simply put, I find myself caught between two duties. I love my country; I love my family more.I am not going to be the road-kill on the Obama express.I am deeply concerned, for the first time in my life, about the future of our Republic. In the next few years Americans will decide two basic sets of questions: Who’s in charge here? Should the public sector protect and promote the private sector or dominate and direct it? Does the government work for the people or vice versa?I share their disgust at a BLACKITY BLACK BLACK BLACK Muslim, Shosulist Radical extremist moderate Democrat being president, an esteemed office that has heretofore been reserved for the whitest of the white. (yes, we did screw up in 92, but Clinton was only an honorary black)And, are we Americans still the kind of people who can successfully govern ourselves, discipline ourselves financially, put the future and our children’s interests ahead of the present and our own?And I hope we still can stick it to those poor fuckers who vote for us, even as we pick their pockets.I am confident that the answers will reaffirm the liberty and vitality of our nation, and hope to play some small part in proving that view true.So David Brooks, Chris Cilizza, and all you in-bred Village punditeers, fuck off.ppcli
@ppcli: OK, I tried B-o-o-k-e-r without the hyphens and got moderated. So the problem isn’t the “Cory” or the “A.”. Perhaps it’s on a list of terms associated with g*a*m*b*l*i*n*g.
As a tribute to Leslie Nielson, it would be good if B-o-o-k-e-r could get the VP nod, so long as we can find a politician called “Takeraway” to head the ticket.
Jay C
@bryanD:
SRSLY? Can you visualize the first Presidential Debate of 2012: all (the incumbent) Obama need do is bring up the related subjects of Social Security/Medicare/the Ryan Plan in a neat, simple question and force his opponent to:
A) Accept and sign on to one of the most retrograde and unpopular political initiatives of recent times, or
B) Reject a fundamental plank of his/her Party’s own platform (in public).
Now there’s a good chance that by next fall, the GOP will have made huge efforts to distance themselves from the least-popular facets of their 2010/2011 policies; but then, what will be left to run on? A “moderate” Republican (vs. say, a ticket of Sarah Palin and Herman Cain) may make the race a bit tighter, but a “nightmare” for Barry? Not a given at all…
Ghanima Atreides
@Valdivia: not these jews
wow….i didnt know Gene Simmons was jewish.
Svensker
@Anya:
No. Don’t like crying while I vomit.
Baud
@Jeff: Win!
Nate Dawg
I find this whole obsession with Daniels’ height, or lack thereof, annoying. What a strange world we live in where, in choosing the most person with the most power, we limit ourselves to people over a center height. I wonder how better off we’d be if meaningless characterists like height, gender, and race were not automatic disqualifiers for positions of great political power.
I know no one here supports this silly standard, but mocking Daniels’ height without mentioning the absurdity and impracticality of this weird standard seems to reinforce it and does nothing to question it.
Heightism ain’t cool.
arguingwithsignposts
OT, but sorta sums up the Rapture Day After – billboard
ppcli
Where by “Protect and promote the private sector” Daniels means “sell assets that have been public since Eisenhower at fire-sale prices to foreign companies” and by “dominate and direct” Daniels means “do anything else”.
bryanD
@Chyron HR:
“….the party that told us the world was literally going to end yesterday.”
Link, please!
@Ghanima Atreides:
“The polls all say Obama is unbeatable by any candidate the GOP can currently field.”
You *do* realize that the unemployment rate is effectively 20% in many parts of the country, *don’t you*?
@Anya:
AIPAC will not “boo the president” since the “1967 borders” media kerfuffle is only hypothetical and dependent on Fatah disenfranchising Hamas, the *stronger* of the Palestinian parties. Hamas had already agreed to submit Fatah as proxy. Not good enough! So there *IS NO REAL NEGOTIATIONS* between Israel and the PA. iSRAEL & Likud: HAPPY!
(Now, there *is* a matter of playing-up to the USA Right wing. However: a roomful of foreign and domestic jews booing an American president??? VERY FUCKING RISKY. I say, No.
arguingwithsignposts
@Nate Dawg: Yeah, because you know who else was short?
MikeJ
@Nate Dawg: I would prefer it if we took everybody who wanted to run for president and put them in a box where nobody could be influenced by their height, weight, sex, colour, whatever.
And then we could nail those boxes shut and put them in a mine shaft somewhere.
Linda Featheringill
@Ghanima Atreides:
Yes, Gene Simmons is Jewish. FWIW.
geg6
@Jay C:
Not to mention that, based on the current behavior of the GOP base, the chances of any moderate like Huntsman getting the nomination are slim and none. So why would the president be afraid of the least likely opponent? In fact, he is not. He’s been praising Huntsman to the skies. Fucking hilarious.
Davis X. Machina
@arguingwithsignposts: Fiorello LaGuardia?
Reality Check
This is good news, the door is now wide open for Chris Christie, or even Bobby Jindal.
Reality Check
This is good news, the door is now wide open for Chris Christie, or even Bobby Jindal.
Reality Check
This is good news, the door is now wide open for Chris Christie, or even Bobby Jindal.
Linda Featheringill
@Nate Dawg:
You’re right of course in that some things don’t go without saying. For instance, I am a fan of Robert Reich but you might not know that if I didn’t say so.
Ghanima Atreides
And dig this rick hertzberg article.
There is a wide open opportunity for Palin to emerge as the champion of Israel. And the Arab Spring will force some sort of action before the 2012 election. The Egytptian foreign minister already permanently opened the Rafah border crossing, which im sure is a treaty violation of the Israel/Egypt treaty that closed it 2007.
Shalimar
Must you always be on the side of letting “them” interfere in private medical decisions? Socialist.
Linda Featheringill
Okay. Obama is being introduced.
Anne Laurie
@Davis X. Machina: I know there are courtiers in the Media Village who are fascinated by the idea of JEB! riding into the convention to Save His Party (i.e., the courtiers, from dying of boredom)… but given how popular the first two Bushes are not among the Teahadists, I also have an image of the delegates tearing up the seats & throwing them at the podium. Live and on camera.
And that’s assuming rumors of the paper trail documenting Jeb!’s past history of selling his constituents to Big Sugar and the developers remain rumors. Going back to Dubya’s first campaign, everything I read indicated that Jeb! had all of his sibling’s venal instincts, coupled with an un-Dubya-like zeal to perform actual work in return for his kickbacks. How’s the new Gov. Skeletor get along with his predecessor?
litbrit
@hildebrand: Well, I don’t know if the Right would consider this a good thing or a bad thing, but Cain had the cojones to plagiarize Dr. King yesterday (I know, I know–unfreakingbelievable):
Chyron HR
And people say Republicans don’t have a sense of humor.
Ghanima Atreides
@bryanD:
Doesn’t matter. Poll after poll shows “generic republican” beating Obama, but the same polls show O asswhupping ANY individual candidate.
Huck bailed because he can’t win, and he knows it.
Palin is the only candidate stupid enough to think she can win in the face of her polls. And the only one that will be postmenopausal in 2016. The rest of the perps can do it for name recognition. Even Bachman will only be 59 in 2016.
But Sarah’s looks are fading, and her base (old white male xtians) will be smaller while her anti-base (youth, minorities, women) will be larger.
Davis X. Machina
@Anne Laurie: Hey, don’t blame me, blame Sherlock Holmes….
ppcli
@bryanD:
Then Obama and I have something in common. My nightmares are also populated by non-existent fantasy creatures.
Linda Featheringill
It was a very nice intro. Reminded folks of what Obama had done for them lately.
Reality Check
Remember this, as well:
Romney is only three points behind ‘Bam.
Reality Check
Remember this, as well:
Romney is only three points behind ‘Bam.
jwb
@Reality Check: Stating it three times doesn’t make it any more true, though it amusingly underscores your desperation.
Mark S.
@Ghanima Atreides:
I’ve been wondering why there’s been such a reaction to this. 1967 lines and land swaps have been the basic framework of every peace solution I can remember. I guess you’re not supposed to say it out loud.
I don’t think Obama should have bothered with this right now. Bibi has absolutely no interest in peace. But I do like how all the pundits want Obama to do more about the Arab spring, just as long as it has nothing to do with Israel and Palestine.
Cat Lady
@Reality Check:
Weren’t you here fluffing Pawlenty a couple of days ago? You’re awfully fickle with your serial man-crushes. With terrible taste, BTW.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@Anne Laurie:
i think we have to take daniels story mostly at face value, health clubs too have their door knobs set at a height that makes them wheel chair accessible.
Bill Murray
@Jay C: why wouldn’t the R nominee just lie and pretend to be “moderate”, while the Tea people just assume it’s code/kabuki. A rerun of GWB as it were
Valdivia
@Ghanima Atreides:
again, the number is tiny. why do you think Jennifer Rubin when at Commentary had to write a 10 page article explaining why the Jews hated her? And lecturing them about how stupid they were for hating her? Rubin is now one of the jews that hates her so I guess even her defenders have abandoned her.
MikeJ
@Bill Murray: That would be the smarter thing to do, but the teabaggers demand vocal support with zero dissent.
Splitting Image
@Anya:
If you’re using Firefox, download AdBlock Plus and add the website that the grifter’s ugly face is coming from as a filter rule. Bye-bye ads. If you’re using a different browser, you can probably get a plug-in that will do the same thing.
Valdivia
@Ghanima Atreides:
not to keep harping on this but you seem to think that all jews=crazy likudniks. There is a reason that jews in general vote Dem. the crazy wing already vote republican, Palin is not going to get the rest, the majority, to vote for her and defeat Obama because she and Bibi are best buddies. Look at the jewish vote in past elections it’s not going to change no matter how much they agitate.
El Cid
@Ghanima Atreides: For those who might not have seen the Palin response to a praise-laden question from FOZNOOZ’s own Greta van Sneerington:
I don’t think this in any way says she’ll run.
But it will help excited fans continue to loyally support their grifter in pursuit of more dough and attention.
Corner Stone
@Bill Murray:
You’ve hit on the key as to why that approach is not acceptable – GWB.
The proto-TPers feel deeply betrayed by someone they envisioned as a secret, but true force for their causes. Because we all know now, GWB is a liberal.
Ghanima Atreides
@Mark S.:
O simply doesnt have that option. A week ago at the Nakba social media organized protestors marched on three borders of Israel. Two weeks ago Egypt opened the Rafah crossing in what im sure is a treaty violation.
The pressure of the Arab Spring is already boiling over onto Israels doorstep.
There are many, many local actors that will seize the opportunity to wipe out Israel if they can.
The problem is that the GWoT turned into a war on islam because islam is the consent of the governed. And now the retreat is turning into a rout. America no longer has power to shape the ME. That is why we cant do anything in Syria. Why we couldn’t do anything in Egypt, why we couldn’t do anything during the Green Wave in Iran.
We are on the wrong side.
Our old imperialist tricks don’t work. Islam is immune to missionary democracy unlike Japan and Germany. Are there any converts to westernstyle democracy in A-stan and Iraq after 8-10 years of occupation? Has a single secular law school been constructed? A single new church or synagogue?
Are there any muslim warbrides or half american babies? Nope. Because Islam doesnt have a prostitute class. No more Madama Butterflies.
Like the convolution of religion and government that is part of what makes Islam an uninvadable CSS (culturally stable strategy from Maynard-Smith).
But no one expects the Arab Spring. O just said “the world is moving too fast for Israel to ignore this”. Social media is driving the Arab Spring.
And no one can put that djinni back in the bottle.
Reality Check
Three points, liberals, Mitt is down by just three points.
arguingwithsignposts
@Reality Check: 18 months before the election.
Please, just stop with the horse race shit this early. You look like more of a fool than you already do.
OzoneR
@Valdivia:
That seems to be the case here in New York.
Ghanima Atreides
@El Cid: i think she is going to be on the ticket. I think the GOP is going to be forced to accept her as the last socon standing.
she might be stealth running though.
they may have already offered her the VP slot…or she’s negotiating for that right now.
Omnes Omnibus
@Reality Check: And Mitt would have get down in the mud and get dirty in order to win the GOP nomination. At that point, when he signs on to the plan to end Medicare, he is toast in the general. To do what needs to be done to get the GOP nomination, one almost needs to take a flamethrower to one’s general election chances. It is very difficult to walk the razor’s edge.
Linda Featheringill
Obama’s speech:
I thought it was a good one but that is probably beside the point.
More important is that he explained what he meant by “1967 borders”. He did not mean to propose enforcing the pre-war borders. Maybe he needed to make himself clear on that point.
Reality Check
I just keep pointing out that Mitt is tied with ‘Bam when you blab about how ‘Bam “whoops” all the Republicans in the polls. Not true.
Valdivia
@OzoneR:
really? in Manhattan? All these jews voted for Bush because he was more pro Israel and AIPAC than Kerry or whatever?
Again, there seems to be a total misconception of who the jewish voter is. This idea that Obama has lost them or will lose them to Palin (of all people!) is pretty unfounded.
Ghanima Atreides
@Valdivia:
No, i think most ISRAELIS are. And even upper cognitive abilty liberal gentiles right here are making excuse for Israel’s actions.
Superluminar and TonyJ said I should be banned.
Omnes Omnibus
@OzoneR: Oh, bullshit.
@Ghanima Atreides: Why, in the name of all that’s good and holy, would it make any sense at all for her to run for VP again? It doesn’t benefit her grift. It won’t satisfy her loony supporters. No, if she makes a move at all, it is for president.
Villago Delenda Est
@Reality Check:
You’re aware, of course, that Mittens cannot win the nomination. The batshit crazy say he’s not a “Christian”.
Furthermore, he has to run away from the signature piece of legislation he used to launch himself into the national spotlight in the first place.
Villago Delenda Est
@Reality Check:
You’re aware, of course, that Mittens cannot win the nomination. The batshit crazy say he’s not a “Christian”.
Furthermore, he has to run away from the signature piece of legislation he used to launch himself into the national spotlight in the first place.
Nickws
@jwb:
RealityCheck has obviously decided he might as well use up all his allocated posting bandwidth right now in anticipation of Christie and Jindal and Romney going nowhere in the months & years ahead.
Valdivia
Have been reading tons of twitter live reactions to the AIPAC speech the consensus from all is that he schooling Bibi pretty good.
Ghanima Atreides
@Mark S.:
or Saud. The Arab Spring coming to KSA would result in 250 $ per bbl oil over night.
The old model for MENA “stability” is failing under the pressure of the New Event of social media. That is not going to go away.
And neither is Wikileaks.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ghanima Atreides: And why did they suggest you should be banned? Was it for making the blithe suggestion that 750,000 dead civilians in Israel was something that you favored? I bet it was for something a lot like that. I am pretty sure it wasn’t anything to do with making excuses for Israel. One could be strongly opposed to Israeli policy without being in favor of killing 750,000 people. Try to be honest.
Small edit for coherence
Valdivia
@Ghanima Atreides:
israelis do NOT vote in American elections so the idea that the crazy israelis will determine how liberal american jews vote in nyc or boston etc is ridiculous.
Valdivia
@Linda Featheringill:
actually what he did–and everyone who follows this seems to agree–is tell the jerks who started misrepresenting his comments to shut the fuck up.
Ghanima Atreides
@Omnes Omnibus: dude, she is counterrational incase you haven’t noticed. She is the Mean Girl that got shutdown for the WH prom in 2008. Obama didnt invite her like he did McCain. She offered him her “help” and got crickets. And everyone laffed at her.
Getting to the WH, even as VP, would vindicate her.
Its like Bristol’s big “middle-finger” to everyone she said she couldn’t do it.
Rhoda
@Reality Check: He’s not tied. President Obama has a statistically significant lead and that’s before the campaign starts and we start the food fights of 2012. It’s before Romney goes through the hell march toward the GOP nominating convention.
Democrats went through it with Obama/Clinton; but it didn’t turn off the country because the Democratic platform is about lifting the middle class. Republicans are going to go through a similar death march since they no longer have winner take all and it’s going to be about whether you support destroying Medicare as we know it and supporting Paul Ryan’s budget, it’s about whether they want to cut social security, Medicare, Medicaid AND taxes on corporations and the wealthy. Republicans are going to go through this and DEM Pacs like Priorities USA & Priorities USA Action are going to highlight this clusterfuck.
That’s why all the Republicans are looking for a moderate conservative that the evangelicals can swallow so they can clear the field like they did for W in ’99.
They don’t want Romney and they’re all afraid of getting Romney because it’ll be McCain all over again; the Republican nominee will be spending the time AFTER his nomination fight frantically trying to unify the base and he’ll have to choose a Palin/tea party type for VP and watch that ticket implode.
Lot can happen; and unemployment is an issue. But the Republican party with these nominees can’t take advantage of Obama’s weaknesses.
Yutsano
@Omnes Omnibus: Please tell me you’re not trying to reason with the resident child. You can’t be THAT bored on a Sunday to stoop to that level of futility.
@Valdivia: That’s mah President. And I just lurve it when they think us Jews vote as a single monolith. Jeez, it’s like they’ve never tried to get two Jewish people to agree on where we should have lunch before. I’ve started minor wars just over THAT. :)
Rommie
Yeah, just like ‘Cain was oh so close to winning the last time, Mit’Rom is right there lurking for the win. Oh, wait, he has to win his party nomination first, as he’s no Le’Perot who can run as an independent.
My codeword computer is broken this morning – what’s the ‘Bam code that ties him to Blackety Black Black and being near?
Valdivia
@Yutsano:
yeah I loves me Obama and the speech at AIPAC was masterful. He kicked Netanyahu in the teeth and got a lot of support from the audience. He also told his truths and did not back down one inch from Thurs.
As to the other thing: hey I’ll go nuclear over lunch any day so yeah, I get it. We not be a monolith!
Amir_Khalid
Could someone explain to me why a Mormon is not a Christian in some people’s eyes? I don’t remember people saying this back when the Osmonds were big.
Omnes Omnibus
@Yutsano: Mme Omnibus is still in the Dominican Republic. I have been a good boy and called my mother already this morning. I have another half hour or so of letting my breakfast settle before I go out running. But, no, I was not attempting to reason with her; I just wanted to point out why some are again calling for her to be banned.
Ghanima Atreides
@Omnes Omnibus: i said the Israelis were acting in Gaza like the Nazis acted in Warsaw. superluminar said that was a banning offence.
i didnt say i favored that….i said it could happen, like it happened to the Iraqis over 8 years of American occupation. A war of attrition from local insurgent/terrorists/indigenes coming across Israels increasingly porous borders.
If the US cannot enforce border protocol treaties anymore (see Rafah) Israel is open to enemies on every border.
MikeJ
@Yutsano:
Stop trying to go to that damned restaurant in south Lebanon with the entire IDF!
Omnes Omnibus
@MikeJ: But the bacon cheeseburgers are sooooo damn good.
MikeJ
@Amir_Khalid:
They believe that god is basically a space alien and if you’re good enough, you can be the space alien god of your own planet. Allowing humans to be gods would take it out of the realm of monotheism, which many christians would think a bit more serious than the old transubstantiation v consubstantiation argument.
piratedan
btw…. ty for the Liz Phair lyric, it is teh awesome…. naturally. In RC’s defense, yes Mittens polls nationally three points behind Obama…. but how is he polling within his own party? That seems to be a wee bit more relevant. kthnxbai!
Ghanima Atreides
@Rhoda: what COULD happen is the Arab Spring comes to KSA and AfPak. If it gets to KSA oil goes to 250$/bbl overnight, and if it gets to AfPak the Zardari government falls and Jamaat-e-Ismali gets the Pak nuke codes. Then our exit strat in A-stan either involves Kabul rooftops and helos or a forced march on Islamabad to restore Zardari to power as another America puppet tyrant.
Yutsano
@Ghanima Atreides:
Adjusted to reality. The military is too strong to let the extremists ever take over Pakistan. They may be Muslims, but their anti-India paranoia is even deeper.
Ghanima Atreides
@Valdivia: what if Bibi decides to lob a nuke on Iran for “agitating” through proxy Syria?
Will America jews demand Obama stay on Israels side in the conflict?
Bruce S
“Bobo on suicide watch…”
Bobo will write a sad column on how our system has been poisoned and decent people don’t want to get involved in Presidential races – which robs America of watching the “Deficits don’t matter” Bush administration’s budget director and a supposed opponent of “culture war” politics explain how much he hates deficits and…uh…Planned Parenthood.
I actually looked forward to Daniels getting in because he’s a much better target for exposing the Big Lies of the GOP than a self-immolating douche-bag everybody already hates like Gingrich.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano: you might be right. Musharaff Redux. But that will make more long term problems for the US.
Pak is already using american aid to buy chinese fighter planes.
Pakistan is 99% muslim.
Petraeus is currently trying to negotiate permanent bases with Karzai, since we arent going to have any in Iraq.
Jewish Steel
@Davis X. Machina:
Today I am announcing my candidacy for President of the United States; I cannot bear the company of my shrewish wife nor the sight of my hangdog teenage children. Some eighteen months is a long time to spend apart from one’s family but it is my belief that, in the end, we will look back and say, it was not long enough.
Thank you and God bless the United States of America.
Omnes Omnibus
@Ghanima Atreides: Ooooh, fun. Let’s play the stunningly improbable hypothetical game. What if the Mole People all register as Republicans and vote for Bachmann? Then what?
Yutsano
@Bruce S: Or he’ll just move on to his next fluff target like Daniels never even existed. This would fit better with his logic mindset and past behavioral patterns.
@Ghanima Atreides:
This is little different than how Pakistan has acted in regards to the US in the past. And honestly our relationship with Pakistan was better when the generals were running things. Totally awful for the people, but on a geopolitical level better.
bryanD
@Ghanima Atreides:
“wow….i didnt know Gene Simmons was jewish.”
*Everybody has jewish blood, anyway*! It’s why Hitler’s Nuremberg Laws dare only confirm Aryan purity no further back than A.D.1800!
Skippy-san
@Omnes Omnibus: Off year or not-Obama is always on the ballot. Otherwise I don’t think the teatards would have done as well as they did.
Ghanima Atreides
@Omnes Omnibus: that was really funnie.
One of my good friends is orthodox and his brother is a rabbi.
a bacon cheeseburger violates both the meat/milk separation and the injunction against pork, right?
Ghanima Atreides
@Omnes Omnibus: Dude, Palin is counterrational. Even Bachman can read polling data.
Palin fucking hears voices in her head.
you do not know what she will do.
Omnes Omnibus
@Skippy-san: In which case, you probably don’t think that Obama will win in 2012. If you that is what you think, then just say it.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano: but Musharraf never had to contend with the Arab Spring and Imran Khan.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
By my simple math, then, the only establishment candidates left are this guy and this guy. Oh, and this guy. Run, Sarah, run.
And why can’t Herman Cain win?
Yutsano
@Ghanima Atreides: You do realize that Musharraf is no longer in charge of the military in Pakistan correct? And the Pakis have shown themselves to be quite capable of brutal repression in the past. Hell even the re-taking of the Swat Valley from the Taliban was pretty damn bloody, and they told the civilians to stay inside because they weren’t going to be discriminatory about who they shot. The fundamentalists will never take over Pakistan without penetrating the military, and the military specifically weeds the real strong fundies out. Any other fantasies you care to indulge? Or am I being too rough on your bubble of certitude?
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
Other than near zero name recognition and almost none of the big money players moving his way? How’s about no political experience at all.
kay
It was all bullshit anyway, with Daniels. He’s viciously partisan, and all they had to do was read his frequent statements in Indiana to find that out.
Of course he speaks differently when marketing nationally.
He was insanely bitter and angry when the Democrats in Indiana left the state. He continually referred to them as being “in a hot tub”. I don’t even know what it was supposed to mean.
How hard is this? If there is a sitting governor, and national pundits want to describe or understand that governor, as he really is, and not get duped or sell a bunch of made-up malarkey to a national audience, they are going to have to read in-state newspapers. because that’s where his (authentic) words and actions are.
Yutsano
@kay: None of that would have been an issue in the primaries. Hell I’m convinced his actions of the last six months were to build up his Teatard cred. But apparently in the end he was once again overruled by the women in his life. This is not a negative thing.
Ghanima Atreides
@Shoemaker-Levy 9: umm….because hes blackity black black? There is some portion of the New Christian Confederate Party that will not vote for a black man.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano: and the pakistani people have been trying to try Musharraf for warcrimes, too.
I’m saying Musharraf was able to keep control because there was no Arab Spring back in the day.
The Arab Spring is being driven by social media, and that is a New Event. And America is bleeding regional hegemony. We are being KICKED out of Iraq in December. According to the SOFA we can only leave 150 trainers.
Do you understand that?
No airbases.
Maybe Pak is going to change status to be China’s client.
They just bought chinese fighter jets.
Bruce S
Yutsano – on Bobo, I think he’ll do both. Write a requiem for is last “great idea” and then proceed to recycle it with a new name.
Judas Escargot
@Reality Check:
WTF is up with this “Bam”? It doesn’t hurt any of us, and just makes you look like a glorious fucktard.
I’m going to call Romney “Rom” from now on. So there. Nyah nyah nyah I win. :P
Yutsano
@Ghanima Atreides:
Do I even need to point out the obvious? Or should I have Amir_Khalid come along and give you instructions?
Shoemaker-Levy 9
@Yutsano:
According to Nate Silver’s recent opus on the subject Cain had the same name recognition as Huntsman as well as former heartthrobs Thune and Pence, and was only ten points behind Daniels. Pawlenty had roughly twice as much but was still under 50%.
Oh, pshaw. Obama and Palin had what, about five minutes of political experience between them when they first hit the spotlight? And other successful businessmen with little political experience have managed to get taken seriously, for a while anyway.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano:
not at all. The Arab Spring is unstoppable because of social media. No one can put that djinni back in the bottle.
Pakistan was the first islamic state. It is still under shariah.
If there are Tahir style protests in Islamabad the military won’t be able to repress them indefinitely.
Carl Nyberg
I think this is going to come down to a bitter fight between outsider Republicans and insider Republicans.
The outsiders are really mad and will resist getting an insider forced on them. They like the following candidates:
* Bachmann
* Cain
* Paul
The insiders are scared that the GOP will not only lose the race for POTUS, but that the race will drag down Republicans across the country. They prefer
* Huntsman (who may yet pull the plug)
* T-Paw
* Romney
I thought Gingrich was the natural choice to bridge these differences based on the Pew polling that showed Gingrich to be strong across all GOP constituencies. But I underestimated Gingrich’s ability to alienate people who like him. Getting booted as Speaker wasn’t an anomaly. Gringrich excels at turning friends and allies into opponents and enemies.
I think Gary Johnson is running to take over the Ron Paul cult, not actually get the nomination.
John Bolton, Roy Moore and Rick Santorum aspire to be outsider candidates, but “if wishes were horses…”
Valdivia
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
sorry did you just compare Obama’s political career to that of Cain? Really? Cause failing in a republican primary once and running a pizza joint is the same as having years in the Illinois assembly and being in the Senate?
Keith G
@Shoemaker-Levy 9: Cain may be too old. He is 65 now and while that is not old in a general sense, he would be the oldest person to be elected president since Reagan.
I think it would take an exceptional elder baby boomer to be elected now-a-days.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
@Yutsano:
Oh, and I forgot to mention that Romney has only held political office for four years of his life, and that was governor of a foreign, soshulist country.
Carl Nyberg
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
I remember doing some non-profit fundraising research in the 90s. Obama sat on a large number of foundation boards in Chicago when he was first a state senator.
The guy prepared for a career in politics. It didn’t just start with winning the U.S. Senate primary in 2004.
dollared
@Yutsano: I wish the nasty stuff was for the Teatard crowd. But as a student of Walker, and a longtime Cheesehead, I see pure Nixonian resentment in Wisconsin. There really is a core of white males, especially in the suburbs of the industrial cities, who HATE. They hate the blacks and the Milwaukee public schools, they hate unions, they hate the academics in Madison, they hate being told they are sexist, etc. Look at all the gratuitous things what Walker has done. For example, “reorganizing” the UW so he can isolate the Madison campus and create a new board of regents that he can control. Or the executive order denying hospital visitation rights to same sex partners.
In Wisconsin, the Catholics are republican not just because of abortion. School vouchers are key. They hate paying school tuition and school taxes. And Walker is cutting $1B from the public schools, and giving part of the money out in vouchers, and eliminating any needs-based requirements.
I have a theory about these guys that is half serious: up until about 1990, half of the Green Bay Packer games were played in Milwaukee. Then Lambeau Field was rebuilt, and the state guaranteed the bonds. And then the Packers moved the team fully back to Green Bay, and told the Milwaukee area season ticket holders that they had “class B” season tickets, and they had to haul themselves two hours up to Green Bay four times a year to exercise their rights. And, oh, by the way, they pick second for playoff tickets, after a full stadium of Green Bay Class A seats. In other words, “none for you.”
I tell people that if the Packers continued the split schedule, Walker would never have won. At first it was just an inside joke. Now after all of Walker’s spiteful stuff, and some seriously bitter stuff from some of my conservative firends in Wisconsin, I’m beginning to believe it.
Yutsano
@Shoemaker-Levy 9: Obama will have three years of presidentin’ by the time the actual election comes about. And despite all efforts to the contrary, he has a list of solid accomplishments. So that deficit will be minimal by then. And I have zero doubt Herman is next on the Flavor of the Month list, but he won’t be a serious contender unless the money starts moving his way.
@Ghanima Atreides:
Turkey called. They would like to give you a history lesson.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano:
i do not understand your point.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano: my point remains. Turkey is evolving to a representatitve islamic goverment from a Kemalist dictatorship/military junta. While Turkey does NOT have shariah in its current constitution, it eventually will. IMHO it will have the same provision that the Iraqi constitution has….that no law will be made that conflicts with shariah.
Pakistan was the first islamic state.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
@Valdivia:
In terms of general perception of political experience yes, Cain would be regarded similarly to how Obama was in the last campaign. Remember how they brushed him off as a “community organizer”? Against the invincible Clinton political machine? Remember, we’re talking about how these people stack up against their primary opponents. Romney has barely any more political experience, if we mean holding elective office, than Cain. Ditto Huntsman. Trump had none and was taken seriously for a while.
James E. Powell
@dollared:
There are men like this, and many women too, throughout the Great Lakes region, in the suburbs of the dying industrial cities. They were the Reagan Democrats. They are convinced that their way of life, not just economic but cultural and political, has been diminished and denigrated in favor of blacks, immigrants, gays, whatever. They are very tribal, very angry, and very vulnerable to irrational appeals.
Look how the Great Lakes states voted in 2010. They will be back in 2012, voting the same. The only way to overcome them is to outnumber them. And that is going to take some hard work and lively campaigning.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
@Yutsano:
We’re talking about the GOP primary process, not the general. Again, why not Cain?
Ghanima Atreides
@Valdivia: Top Jewish Americans Ponder Support for Obama
@Shoemaker-Levy 9: I think you are as crazie as Cain.
Ghanima Atreides
darn moderation. ill try delinking
@Valdivia: Top Jewish Americans Ponder Support for Obama
from Reuters
(
@Shoemaker-Levy 9: I think you are as crazie as Cain.
John Cole
I wonder how Sullivan is taking this.
Hunter Gathers
@John Cole: I imagine that he is out shopping for a pair of Emo pants as we speak. Or perhaps he and Friedersdorf will enter into a suicide pact. That would be quite Burkean of them. Or would it be Nieburian?
Yutsano
@John Cole: Fainting couches and lots of weed is my guess.
@Ghanima Atreides: Just putting it in their official name doesn’t make them first. The Ottoman Empire laid legitimate claim to that until the Ataturk interregnum. And the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia existed well before the partition of British India that created Pakistan in 1947. You’re looking at the superficialities to make your case. The Wahhabi-Saud devil’s pact was cemented in the 19th century when the Ottomans were on the wane.
Reality Check
The election is decided by the economy, folks, and that’s bad news for ‘Bam no matter who we nominate.
Valdivia
@Ghanima Atreides:
and again, this comes before today’s AIPAC speech were he got a lot of love. You can believe what you want to believe but it ain’t going to change that Obama is not losing support to Palin because of Israel.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano: /yawn.
i can go back to the Abbasids for islamic govenment if you want. It wont change the outcome a nanowafer.
Social media gives the ummah power, and the ummah wants islamic government.
@Hunter Gathers: Neither Friedersdorf or Sully can fit their wide loads into emo pants.
Yutsano
@Reality Check: Then by all means let’s test this theory. Nominate a potted plant. Or even a tillandsia if you want to get exotic.
Hugely
@Comrade Javamanphil:
this. early and often
Reality Check
@Yutsano, it is between Romney and Pawlenty if no one else gets in. They’re the serious candidates, with Cain and Baachman aiming for VP.
Ghanima Atreides
@Valdivia:
oh, not yet.
But its early times.
What if something really bad happens?
Oh, like a few suicide bombers infiltrating thru the Rafah crossing, and there is a “proportionate” response from the IDF with many pictures of bloody mangled Palestinian children.
Every Arab Spring movement was inititated from Facebook.
SNT makes atrocity immediate and local and VISIBLE.
Social media makes it impossible for the oligarchs to cover this shit up anymore.
THE
@Ghanima Atreides:
Some of the bounce is going out of the spring.
Yutsano
@Ghanima Atreides: You can play the What If game until you’re blue in the face. We prefer to deal in reality here, thank you very much.
Ghanima Atreides
@Reality Check: did you not see what Cain just said on FOXnews? He doesnt understand what right-of-return is.
That is Palin level clueless.
eemom
I do believe I am glad I slept in obscenely late today and missed most of this thread.
Also, I had some groovy dreams, unpopulated by racist trolls and crazed islamicist children.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano: oh, but im trained to make hypotheses.
what about September when the UN recognizes Palestines right to statehood?
Jazz Superluminar
@m_c:
TurkeyThe world called. They would like togive you a history lesson.tell you to shut the fuck up.Fixed that for accuracy.
@john cole
I don’t know, he just keeps on repeating the numbers 3.14159… indefinitely. It’s a mystery.
Ghanima Atreides
@eemom: in your dream, did you get skinpops made of ground up palestinian babies that restored your youthfull beauty?
ruemara
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
No political experience? Dude, Obama worked in NYC with an organization I worked for once, NYPIRG. People I know in a number of minority political orgs, that are much smaller, recall working with him as an organizer. He’s been involved in politics for years. And you’re saying he has the same level of political experience as Sarah Snowbilly? YMMV, I just disagree.
Ghanima Atreides
@Jazz Superluminar: lol. i think you should mail Cole and ask for him to ban me.
Reality Check
Ghanima, what the fuck is wrong with you? You’re way off topic on this thread.
THE
@Ghanima Atreides:
The Syrian part of the Arab Spring is looking less springy by the minute.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
@John Cole:
In case it wasn’t already obvious, I’ve been semi-whimsically pushing Cain here in this thread and generally for a couple of weeks now. And why not him? The only really legitimate distinction I see being drawn is that he hasn’t held elective office, but some of the other “serious” candidates have spent very little of their lives in elective office, and one formerly “serious” candidate also has zero elective office on his resume. Wasn’t this supposed to be the year of ideological purity rather than political experience? Whimsy aside, I’d really like to see the other candidates and the pundits asked why Cain can’t be the nominee.
eemom
@Ghanima Atreides:
didn’t need to. Despite my advanced years, my youthful beauty hasn’t gone anywhere.
Let that be a lesson to you.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
@ruemara:
We have to define what we mean by “political experience”. If it includes organizing stuff then Cain has his share of “political experience”. Mainly, though, what we should be doing in this little exercise is trying to think like Republicans and not like ourselves. So pretend you are a Tea Partier for a minute and think about who you will vote for in the primary and why it will or won’t be Cain.
Tony J
@Ghanima Atreides:
Correction. I said you should be handed another time-out. Relegation to the sin-bin might not succeed in sweating the crazy out of you, but it would give us all a break from watching you smear monkey-thoughts all over the virtual walls of this nice blog.
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes, it was. And since she’s trying to wriggle out of it in comments here, I’ll just point out that she wasn’t denying it at the time. IIRC she “had no sympathy for people who starve babies”, or something equally hip-cocked and meaningful. YMMV.
Ghanima Atreides
@THE: not relly. the egyptian military is now an American client, and is trying to keep a lid on the Pali/Israeli conflict which could easily boil over into Egypt.
i think the elections will have to happen in …September? isnt that when the UN takes up Palestinian statehood?
Amir_Khalid
@Yutsano:
Of course Islamic states go all the way back to when the Prophet was running Medinah after he left Mecca. See? You don’t really need me to explain the obvious to Ghanima Atreides. Although it will still be a waste of keystrokes no matter who does it.
@Ghanima Atreides:
Plus social media and all the passion in the world couldn’t budge the ayatollahs in Iran. It isn’t social media that has made the difference in the Arab spring; it was the Egyptian military refusing to back Mubarak, it was the rebels in Libya putting up a credible fight (albeit with some outside help). You’ll notice that in other places, where neither of these things has happened, the uprising is not winning.
Pakistan has always had a pretty lively political scene, and ruling parties have not always been beholden to the military or to Islamists. Nor does it have quite the same tradition of autocratic rule that the Arab Spring (and Iranian) uprisings are revolting against. So a “Pakistani Spring” would not happen — at least, not in the manner of the Arab Spring.
It remains to be seen how well Imran Khan will do in national politics. I doubt it will be held against him that he was once married to a Jewish woman, but I think he still has some way to go before he bridges the gap between handsome celebrity ex-jock and serious contender for PM.
Amanda in the South Bay
@James E. Powell:
Or we can take the long view, and simply wait for the Reagan Democrat cohort to die off.
Tony J
Moderated? Hey, Cole, as you’re around….?
Tony J
That’s two moderated. Is it because I used the wrong e-mail address?
Testing.
Skippy-san
@Omnes Omnibus: That’s not what I said. I think the Democrats and Obama have to be very careful not to underestimate their opposition. The Tea tards may be ignorant-but their ignorance is contagious and dangerous.
If the economy sours, or the markets sour due to a default on the debt ceiling, Obama will get the blame, whether deserved or not. And it only takes a couple of things like that, and speeches like his one about Israel and the Palestinan state-to put him and the Dems in the fight of their life.
THE
@Amir_Khalid:
This.
Yutsano
@Amir_Khalid: You raise a really good point that THE seizes above, but what I was getting at for you was more country specific. The largest Islamic country in the world…isn’t Arab. Calling it the Arab Spring and therefore expecting it to spread through all the Islamic world is chauvinistic at best. But I guess you can’t take the white girl out of the Muslim can you? :)
Tony J
Apparently so. Fiddlesticks!
Anyway, what I said was –
@Ghanima Atreides:
Omnes Omnibus
@Tony J:
Do NOT post links.
Amir_Khalid
@Yutsano:
Sorry. I’m nursing some injuries (as mentioned in the Sunday Morning Open Thread) so I’m a little off the ball today.
Tony J
Man, I fail at editing.
Yutsano
@Amir_Khalid: I saw that and ouch. Many positive vibes headed your way too good sir.
Tony J
@Omnes Omnibus:
They say that in a certain light it resembles a young David Hassellhoff wearing a nylon balaclava.
Still no? Probably for the best.
gwangung
@Yutsano: Ding! Ding! Ding!!!!
@Amir_Khalid:
Ow, ow ow!!!
Plenty of gentle pain killers for you!
Omnes Omnibus
@Tony J: Would that “certain light” be an absence thereof? I speak only for myself, of course, but I still say no links.
Ghanima Atreides
@Amir_Khalid:
wallah, Iran is not a valid comparison. Iran is redstate/bluestate rendered in Islam. Half the country is socially conservative, older, rural, ostentatiuosly pious, undereducated and muslim. The other half is urban, educated, younger, socially liberal and muslim. The redstate part has colonized the military is all. Iran is a contest of two different versions of Islam, not secularism vs. islamism, and there are ayatollahs on both sides.
Its already happening. Imran Khan organized a peaceful protest that blocked NATO supply routes for two days in Peshawar. It was organized with student ferations, islamist political parties and facebook.
There is no real difference between Pakistan and Egypt. The military is supported by the Americans in both cases.
Imran Khan is very, very popular in Pak. He rules the Pak talk shows.
Undying Lord, why don’t you support muslims having the government they want?
Spreading missionary democracy is FAIL. We are gettin’ kicked out of Iraq in December (no airbases), and Pakistan is flirting with China.
Tony J
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, a couple of people did say it was “a light bulb moment”, but I haven’t seen them for a while. Apparently Medecin Sans Frontieres was having a recruitment drive and really needed volunteer bar-staff. Heh, makes you think.
But no, you’re right. Some things should remain a mystery.
themann1086
@JGabriel: Glad to see my first thought represented in the first comment.
Ghanima Atreides
@Tony J:
again, all i said was that if Israels border protocol fails than Israel becomes Iraq circa 2006. I might have been flip, but that was not blithe and I dont favor it.
I used that as why Obama HAS to move the two-state solution forwards, and we can no longer afford to sit on our hands while simultaneously wringing them and whining about how both sides do it.
And as for the moral equivalence crap, the palistinians are not starving any israeli children, and no amount of history justifies the horrorshow of Gaza IMHO..
People here attack my style because they cannot attack the substance, i guess.
/shrug
Poopyman
I leave around #30 to cut grass and trim bushes and this is what happens? My time was better spent, methinks.
Off to build some more raised beds ….
Yutsano
@Poopyman: Heh. This is interesting and all, but I still feel the need to go get some lunch.
THE
@Ghanima Atreides:
Pakistan is flirting with China.
Oh it’s way past the flirtation stage GA.
Pakistan was one of the first countries to recognize China.
China helped Pakistan get the bomb.
China and Pakistan have been dating since forever.
They are an item.
Always have beenHave been for years.And Pakistan has just ceded control of its new Gwadar port to China.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano: but indonesia does have blasphemy laws. That is shariah, in case you didnt know.
25% of all the Arabs there are live in Egypt.
Egypt is the cultural and educational center of the arab world.
And they do have shariah in their constitution, which was just re-affirmed by 77.2 of the egyptian electorate.
again, why do juicers feel they have to promote judeoxian democracy? is it working out all that swell for us here? muslims should have self determination and self representation. that is the message of the Arab Spring.
;)
Santiago
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
Because, among other things
cerebral knievel
Somewhere, Tim Pawlenty is doing a very, very uninteresting fist pump. Operation “Everybody’s Second Choice” just won another battle in the campaign to quietly outlast the candidates who have anything resembling a chance.
Amir_Khalid
@Ghanima Atreides:
That’s some brilliant writing, right there.
As Yutsano points out, the Muslim world as a whole is a lot more than just the Arab world. Remember that you are yourself Muslim but not Arab, and don’t conflate the two.
And don’t think that a Muslim-dominated democracy must inevitably demand Shariah law. Indonesia, with an overwhelming Muslim majority, still has a secular constitution. It also has a livelier democracy than most Arab countries. Not every Muslim in Malaysia (we’re three-fifths of the population) wants Shariah law; many of us here think it is unfair to impose it on non-Muslims.
Pakistan has always had an active opposition, and Imran Khan’s activism should be seen in that light, rather than part of some phenomenon that is only now sweeping through the ummah.
The Arab Spring is happening in countries where people are reacting to generations of a lack of democracy. There are other Muslim countries, where there is more democracy and where the pressure for something like the Arab Spring just isn’t there. Do you see Turkey spoiling for a Turkish Spring?
WaterGirl
@Santiago: Deja vu. Except he didn’t respond with “In what respect, Charlie?” like Palin did.
Ghanima Atreides
@Amir_Khalid: dude. the ARAB Spring is in MENA where there are ARABS.
Iranians also are NOT ARABS.
Indonesians are NOT ARABS.
And Indonesia has blasphemy laws, with MEANS shariah law is part of the country’s legal system.
The elements of an Arab Spring style revolution are islamist groups + student associations + social media organization AMONG Arabs.
Again, brother, why are you throwing chaff? Don’t you think the arabs should have self-representation and self-determination? So what if they want shariah?
How is it your business?
Ghanima Atreides
@Amir_Khalid:
MUSLIM COUNTRY DOES NOT MEAN ARAB COUNTRY.
And look at Spain and Italy. the pressure for popular revolutions is coming from social media.
Yutsano
@Ghanima Atreides: Earlier you said this:
Then later:
You can’t even keep your argument correct, which tells me you have no idea what the hell you’re even arguing for. Maybe you should go back to mooning over Assagne for awhile.
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano: Dude Paks ARE Arabs. And Im not the only one mooning over Assange
the world is changing, and its changing fast.
America can lead, follow, or get out of the way.
;)
Yutsano
@Ghanima Atreides: I just facepalmed. You’re officially an idiot. Go away.
Amir_Khalid
@Yutsano: I toldja, man: explaining stuff to Ghanima Atreides is a waste of keystrokes.
Ghanima Atreides
@Amir_Khalid: well I am beginning to think you are a maftoon. Do you really not know there are ayatollahs on both sides of the Iranian issue?
@Yutsano: and you are an old person that cannot accept change.
Tell meh, how will America support an american client pak military junta like Musharraf’s with no airbases in Iraq and maybe none in A-stan either?
Yutsano
@Amir_Khalid: When she insists on getting the fundamental facts wrong, that’s when I know I can dismiss them pretty much out of hand. I’m done with her pretty much now and forever.
I hope your current employer has a generous leave policy so you’ll have time to heal up. And please let us know if there’s anything we can do for you. I know you’re half a planet away (gotta luvre teh Interwebs!) but just keep us posted if nothing else.
OzoneR
@Valdivia:
No, but they voted for Hillary because Obama hated Israel and needed Sarah Palin as an excuse to vote for Obama
Ghanima Atreides
@Yutsano:
wtf are you talking about? I didnt get anything wrong.
I can backup everything I’ve said.
Its just unbearable to you isnt it….the sunset of the stars and stripes.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
@Santiago:
I don’t get it. Since when does being an idiot disqualify one from being GOP nominee?
Anne Laurie
@cerebral knievel:
You just made me laugh. Thanks!
I wonder if there’s anything… special… scheduled for Netroots Nation in Minneapolis to, um, encourage Pawlenty?
Yutsano
@Anne Laurie: I’ll get Calamity Jane right on that. She’d love a good challenge to THAT ONE in the White House.
Amir_Khalid
@Yutsano: Alas, I am medically retired, and have no current employer.
gwangung
@Yutsano: Yeah, pretty much the definition of a racist twit: trying to teach a minority about being a minority.
Ghanima Atreides
@gwangung: i am not getting the facts wrong. Yut refuses to accept them. And I am not racist unless christian and stupid are races now.
Neither muslim or arab is “racist”. Arabs are racial semites.
Just like indigenous jews.
;)
THE
@Ghanima Atreides:
Really Ghanima, how did people organize mass protests I wonder, during the French revolution?
Perhaps they had social media that were not electronic, like you know, political pamphlets and speech. Printing was a fifteenth-century innovation for Europe.
In other words, you have to look deeper than new social media to find the cause of a protest movements. Because social media, in one form or another have been around for a long time.
Remember Ayatollah Khomeini used cassette tapes to spread his message. Pirate radio’s been around for decades too. Printed pamphlets, news-sheets, newspapers, even photocopying machines were used in Eastern Europe to spread samizdat.
mclaren
You guys keep touting these no-name-recognition nonetities for the Republican presidential nomination. I predicted Dnaiels would get nowhere. I’m also predicting Thune is toast. Nobody knows who these guys are, and they’re all far far far too liberal.
Pawlenty is also history. His moderate position on abortion makes him untouchable.
Ija
@Baud:
I think his family (except him) are all women (they have no son), so that’s what he means by women’s caucus veto, I guess.