Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

American history and black history cannot be separated.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires Republicans to act in good faith.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.”

They are not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Every decision we make has lots of baggage with it, known or unknown.

Fear or fury? The choice is ours.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

Of course you can have champagne before noon. That’s why orange juice was invented.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Speaker Mike Johnson is a vile traitor to the House and the Constitution.

Giving in to doom is how authoritarians win.

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

Republicans don’t want a speaker to lead them; they want a hostage.

There are consequences to being an arrogant, sullen prick.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

The current Supreme Court is a dangerous, rogue court.

“But what about the lurkers?”

If ‘weird’ was the finish line, they ran through the tape and kept running.

You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / All About the Binyamins

All About the Binyamins

by | 198 Comments

This post is in: ,

President of the United States and Israel Bibi Netanyahu gave a speech today to Congress, explaining to your Congressmen how they need to act in support of Israel in the upcoming “peace” negotiations lest they be flamed by Leon Wieseltier as gay anti-Semites, and EEMOM has requested a thread about it so you all can fight each other.

Thread granted. Commence flaming.

Personally, I am so over this shit, but I will give you this. Here is a joint statement from Bibi Netanyahu and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton from a few months back (and I first saw this in the comments at OTB, so credit to them):

Prime Minister Netanyahu and Secretary Clinton had a good discussion today, with a friendly and productive exchange of views on both sides. Secretary Clinton reiterated the United States’ unshakable commitment to Israel’s security and to peace in the region.

‪‪The Prime Minister and the Secretary agreed on the importance of continuing direct negotiations to achieve our goals. The Secretary reiterated that “the United States believes that through good-faith negotiations, the parties can mutually agree on an outcome which ends the conflict and reconciles the Palestinian goal of an independent and viable state, based on the 1967 lines, with agreed swaps, and the Israeli goal of a Jewish state with secure and recognized borders that reflect subsequent developments and meet Israeli security requirements.” Those requirements will be fully taken into account in any future peace agreement.

Here is what Obama said last week, “throwing Israel under the bus”:

So while the core issues of the conflict must be negotiated, the basis of those negotiations is clear: a viable Palestine, a secure Israel. The United States believes that negotiations should result in two states, with permanent Palestinian borders with Israel, Jordan, and Egypt, and permanent Israeli borders with Palestine. We believe the borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states. The Palestinian people must have the right to govern themselves, and reach their full potential, in a sovereign and contiguous state.

You can see how that is totally different and reinforces this jackasses opinion that Obama is “an anti-Israel President.”

Again, the biggest threat to the nation of Israel is not externally located, but from her loudmouth supporters, Bibi Netanyahu, and the wingnuts using this issue for domestic political gain. They’ve lost all credibility, their bullying tactics are alienating supporters, and they are their own worst enemy.

I also apologize for using this thread title twice. I’m slacking. You do this shit for ten years.

Reader Interactions

198Comments

  1. 1.

    Tony J

    Before the hubbub, can I just have a moment of your time to point out that Bibi is a sack of shit?

    Thanks.

  2. 2.

    Paul in KY

    I think that when Netanyahoo spoke about painful ‘territorial concessions’, he was speaking of allowing the Palestinians to actually control some of their Bantustaned land.

    IMO, he was not speaking of parting with any land inside Israel’s 1967 borders.

  3. 3.

    Omnes Omnibus

    It is pretty obvious when you cut through the BS that Clinton and Obama were saying completely different things. Or something.

  5. 5.

    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire

    Let me summarize the coming thread:

    “BARGLE BARGLE BARGLE IT’S ALL THEIR FAULT NO IT’S THEIRS BARGLE BARGLE BARGLE”

    “Maybe both sides are to blame?”

    “NOOOOOOOOOO BARGLE BARGLE BARGLE NOO”

    You’re welcome.

  8. 8.

    Brachiator

    Personally, I am so over this shit, but I will give you this. Here is a joint statement from Bibi Netanyahu and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton

    Hah. Great catch.

    Since the beginning of the Cold War, there have been a few seemingly permanently intractable issues: Northern Ireland, Cyprus, Kashmir, Sri Lanka, Basque Spain (and France). Maybe Quebec. And of course Israel.

    Northern Ireland has achieved a rough peace for now. Sri Lanka recently ended up with the Tamils getting the crap beat out of them, while the world largely yawned.

    The others, whether or not Americans obsess over them, are ongoing. Nobody wants to yield, everybody has a legitimate grievance.

    I’ll bet most of this crap will still be going on long after we are all dead and gone.

  10. 10.

    Han's Solo

    Understatement of the year: The world would be a much better place without right wing extremists.

    What do you want to bet that this whole issue, filled with faux outrage, ends up hurting Bibi far more than Obama? I think Bibi is going to lose his job over this.

    Good. In my opinion two things need to happen before there will be peace in the region: 1) Bibi has to go 2) The Palestinians need to choose a new, sane leader.

  17. 17.

    James E. Powell

    Since the beginning of the Cold War the collapse of the European colonial empires after two world wars, there have been a few seemingly permanently intractable issues: Northern Ireland, Cyprus, Kashmir, Sri Lanka, Basque Spain (and France). Maybe Quebec. And of course Israel.

    Fixed.

  18. 18.

    NobodySpecial

    Bibi would look fantastic in an Emperor Palpatine hoodie.

    The Melech Strikes Back?

  20. 20.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @eemom: Although there was apparently a heckler in the chamber somewhere near the beginning. Bibi did pivot and make a free speech point, which i give him credit for thinking fast. The rest of it, meh.

  22. 22.

    Steve

    Far Left Israel Hater Jeffrey Goldberg has been on top of this issue from the beginning. Among other things, he notes the words of Israel’s most recent prime minister, Ehud Olmert:

    “On the 16th of September, 2008, I presented him (Abbas) with a comprehensive plan. It was based on the following principles.

    —
    One, there would be a territorial solution to the conflict on the basis of the 1967 borders with minor modifications on both sides. Israel will claim part of the West Bank where there have been demographic changes over the last 40 years.”

    —
    This approach by Olmert would have allowed Israel to keep the biggest Jewish settlement blocks which are mainly now suburbs of Jerusalem, but would certainly have entailed other settlers having to leave Palestinian territory and relocate to Israel.

    —
    In total, Olmert says, this would have involved Israel claiming about 6.4 per cent of Palestinian territory in the West Bank: “It might be a fraction more, it might be a fraction less, but in total it would be about 6.4 per cent. Israel would claim all the Jewish areas of Jerusalem. All the lands that before 1967 were buffer zones between the two populations would have been split in half. In return there would be a swap of land (to the Palestinians) from Israel as it existed before 1967.

    Goldberg concludes that if Obama just threw Israel under a bus, it appears Israel almost threw itself under a bus as recently as 2008. I have to agree.

  24. 24.

    Carl Nyberg

    Does Congress get embarrassed by being so obsequious and servile to someone? Seriously. Where’s their pride?

    Cheering the POTUS when he’s doing something in your interest is one thing. Cheering the head of a foreign country at the beginning and end is good manners.

    But interrupting with ovations? When in history has a legislature craved the approval of a foreign head of state so much?

  25. 25.

    Chris

    You can see how that is totally different and reinforces this jackasses opinion that Obama is “an anti-Israel President.”

    I suspect that when Netanyahu heard it from Hillary, he took it in stride as “yeah, yeah, we’ll just smile and nod and go with it but nothing’s going to happen.”

    Obama’s latest speech was an unwelcome reminder of the promise he made fully intending never to keep it, which came off as somewhat more forceful than what he’s used to from American presidents. Someone actually gave a hint that he might be held accountable for his word, so of course he ran sobbing to the media and Congress about how unfair it all was.

    And I wish it was true that their bullying tactics were alienating supporters. Based on Congress’ reaction to Bibi’s speech, the U.S. government is still drooling with adulation at anything the Likudniks say. And it’s not like there’s anyone to keep them in line.

  26. 26.

    david mizner

    Good move by Bibi. He — and his allies in the GOP — pretend Obama said something new and different, ensuring the President won’t do anything meaningful to push Israel toward peace. (Not that he was going to.)

  27. 27.

    Felinious Wench

    @Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal:

    i hope i am not being anti-semantic here, but i was hoping for the title “likud virgin”

    When I choked on my lemon tea after reading this, thereby getting it into my sinuses, I cursed you in my mind, gently.

    Well played, my friend.

  29. 29.

    Violet

    Heard a caller on Limbaugh’s show today who claimed to be Libertarian but said he completely disagreed with Limbaugh on Israel. Called Israel a “welfare queen” and said when we had such debt problems here we shouldn’t be giving so much money to Israel, and Egypt as well, just to not fight with each other. He wanted to know why we gave so much money to Israel and it was kind of entertaining to hear Limbaugh flail for an answer. He said something about they’re our friends or allies or something. Then he kind of realized that wasn’t really good enough and then went on about Israel being the “island of stability” in the Middle East. Or something like that.

    The whole exchange was kind of funny because the guy was saying we shouldn’t support Israel from a “we’re broke” standpoint and Limbaugh was struggling to argue for spending money we don’t have.

  30. 30.

    Sportello

    So … what’s to be done?

    Can the US abstain from the UN vote on Palestinian statehood? Cut aid to Israel?

  32. 32.

    Chris

    @Carl Nyberg:

    Does Congress get embarrassed by being so obsequious and servile to someone? Seriously. Where’s their pride?

    How many of those guys do you figure were running attack ads criticizing Obama for bowing to the Saudi King and the Queen of England?

    Hey, bowing’s not my thing either, but it’s better than kissing ass, or performing other services at about the same height.

  33. 33.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    You could call it “All About the Binymins, Part Deux, or Redux, or Chapter the Seconde”

  34. 34.

    cbear

    Some media outlet was reporting that Bibi got more standing O’s than Obama during his SOTU this year.

    Normally, you would have to go to SeaWorld to witness that many trained seals barking in unison.

  36. 36.

    david mizner

    Let’s be clear about one thing: Bibi is abhorrent because he’s a war criminal, not because he was (Heaven forbid) rude the American President.

    It’s amusing to see so many people who’ve never shit about this issue up in arms just because he wasn’t polite to Pres.

  39. 39.

    Citizen_X

    I really think the fainting spells were not caused by the 1967 borders thing, but by these five words (especially the second to last one):

    a sovereign and contiguous state

    Then again, maybe the intolerable part is just putting those points all together in one short statement.

  40. 40.

    burnspbesq

    The difference between the two statements is that Obama referred to the Palestinians as “people.” In some circles, that simply can’t be conceded, because “people” can have “human rights,” “legitimate aspirations,” and all kinds of other inconvenient stuff.

  44. 44.

    Casey

    @ John COle

    …and the wingnuts using this issue for domestic political gain. They’ve lost all credibility…

    Not sure how they manage to have this endless supply of “credibility” since they continue to lose it all on almost a weekly daily basis…

  45. 45.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @david mizner:

    It’s amusing to see so many people who’ve never shit about this issue

    Wow, you can read not only Obama’s mind, but those of everyone posting here! You’re even magicker than Greenwald!

  47. 47.

    Roger Moore

    @Paul in KY:

    I think that when Netanyahoo spoke about painful ‘territorial concessions’, he was speaking of allowing the Palestinians to actually control some of their Bantustaned land.

    Yeah, it’s about the same way Very Serious Psychopaths talk about “shared sacrifice”. It’s always somebody else who makes concessions or sacrifices, and they share by pretending it’s happening to them.

  48. 48.

    eemom

    if I din know better, I’d say Hamsher Lady-In-Waiting Mizner is trying to make this an Obama bashing thread.

    Oh well. Beese is gone, so someone’s gotta do it.

  51. 51.

    Reality Check

    So I hear that (much like his policies) Obama’s limo bottomed out in Ireland. The only question that remains is this: which side was Michelle sitting on? Looks like the Beast may need a “No Fat Chicks” bumper stickers (doubly ironic she wants to price fatty food out of reach of anyone but the rich, she is as hypocritical as she is pear-shaped).

  53. 53.

    Valdivia

    Bibi threw his hissy fit to help the Republicans, he thinks by doing this he can assist in the un-seating of Obama in 2012 and get a free pass from whoever they throw at him. He has no intention of any peace deal ever. The wrinkle of course is that as triumphalist as he may feel today about what he did, he, like the republicans he listens to, seems to think Obama has no game or doesn’t know how to play him and he already has. I really do think he miscalculated no matter how many standing ovations he got today.

  55. 55.

    Alex S.

    Israel can’t win. There already is a sizeable minority of Palestinians within its borders which is only going to increase the more territory Israel occupies. The only solution would be some sort of ethnic cleansing, not genocide, but deportations, and these would turn Israel into a pariah state. However, I am also completely over it, and there is nothing left to do but to watch silently as Israel digs its own grave.

  56. 56.

    Lolis

    @david mizner:

    How do you know we never give a shit about this issue? In 2000, I went to Israel and toured an occupied territory. I have been pretty fired up about the Palestinian plight since then.

    You are an idiot.

  57. 57.

    JPL

    OT.. BBC online has a live feed to the state dinner the Queen is having in honor of the President and First Lady.

  58. 58.

    arguingwithsignposts

    And, fwiw, i find it laughable that anyone other than neocons and fundevangeicals actually thinks a u.s. Presidential election is going to be decided on I/P politics.

  60. 60.

    Lolis

    @Valdivia:

    I totally agree. Bibi is trying to influence who wins the US elections in 2012. If we are smart enough to figure it out, I am sure the White House knows what game he is playing.

  63. 63.

    Mike in NC

    “Huckabee/Netanyahoo” would be an awesome ticket, if only for the funny names.

  64. 64.

    Paris

    What is unique about Israeli politics that the same 5 people have been taking turns running the country since 1948?

  66. 66.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @eemom: I am not a huge fan of banning or “pieing,” but I have trouble summoning much sympathy for his plight. Does this make me a bad person? Or is it all my sins that does that?

  67. 67.

    Valdivia

    @JPL:
    but i thought the Brits hate Obama because he is anti-colonial and sent back the bust of Churchill?

  68. 68.

    Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus)

    @Sportello:
    Since congress controls the foreign aid purse strings and is the part of our government that thinks Israel is totally dreamy? Not much. Best I can hope for is that Israel will call for some military assistance at some point and Obama will ignore them. But I can’t imagine Israel ever needing military assistance.

  69. 69.

    eemom

    I would say the speech was a non-starter.

    He is a good speaker, though. And he has like zero accent.

    It was interesting theater.

  70. 70.

    geg6

    You racist, misogynous fuck, Reality Check. You need to check your own reality. Michelle Obama is ten thousand times more beautiful than that moose pie or crazy fucking eyes you so obviously yearn for. Not to mention that her IQ is the sum of both their IQs added together and then squared. Fuck you with a rusty pitchfork. Repeatedly.

  74. 74.

    Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus)

    @geg6:
    Eh. We have trolls with an obsessive anti-Obama agenda, like the aforementioned Beese. We have trolls like Caz who show up to argue that black is white and night is day. But Reality Check is just your classic troll – doesn’t seem to have a point, just tries to say the most insulting thing it can think of.

  76. 76.

    Reality Check

    @geg6, racist? Really? Please tell me how you got that out of what I wrote (which included nothing about race, or skin color, or national origin anywhere). Be sure to show your work! And face it, I know you worship the Obama’s and everything, but the woman is built like a snowman. Nothing wrong with having a plus-size fetish, though, if that’ your thing!

  77. 77.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Don’t feed the troll. Even if one is looking for a troll fight, don’t reward this one for such lame trolling.

  79. 79.

    Valdivia

    totally OT–the BBC are GUSHING about Obama, everything, the gifts, his speech, M Obama’s dress.
    Nice symmetry that on the day Bibi is sucked by our Congress Obama is getting an honor no Am President has ever had: to address both houses of Parliament at Westminster.

  81. 81.

    Reality Check

    Reagan addressed the Parliament. And the UK is instituting real, conservative policies right now that are cutting regulations and slashing the fat out of their budget. It’s amazing what a functional political system can do!

  82. 82.

    JPL

    @Valdivia: Michelle’s toned upper arms, which we are all jealous of… well duh
    If former President Bush is watching, I bet he is jealous. They have been planning this for months.

  83. 83.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    .
    .
    I have it on good authority (Ovadia Yosef, former Sephardi Chief Rabbi of Israel) that “The sole purpose of non-Jews is to serve Jews”. Mystery solved.
    .
    .

  85. 85.

    Hunter Gathers

    @Reality Check: Your troll-fu is getting stronger by the day, DougJ. But the next time you bring up Michelle O’s supposed weight problem, be sure to mention ribs. And lay off the Bobo references. They’re a dead giveaway.

  87. 87.

    Valdivia

    @JPL:

    yep. the Westminister bit tomorrow will be great. Today is the day to watch the bbc instead of the bibi fest :)

  91. 91.

    fasteddie9318

    @Reality Check:

    And the UK is instituting real, conservative policies right now that are cutting regulations and slashing the fat out of their budget

    …which is resulting in virtually no economic growth and increasing expected deficits.

    But you were saying…

  95. 95.

    Reality Check

    They’re going through the becessary pain of having the market naturally flush failed and toxic investments out of their economic system (many of which were caused by Keyensianism) rather than try to delay (and make worse) the inevitable.

  96. 96.

    Alex S.

    @Hunter Gathers:

    Yeah, the Bobo reference is too clever for a wingnut. Also, the name is a reference to Sully and his “reality check” posts, isn’t it?

  98. 98.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    Again, the biggest threat to the nation of Israel is not externally located, but from her loudmouth supporters, Bibi Netanyahu, and the wingnuts using this issue for domestic political gain. They’ve lost all credibility, their bullying tactics are alienating supporters, and they are their own worst enemy.

    This is the part that gets me and galls me the most. I mean…I am not an anti-Israel person. I fully recognize it’s existence, it’s right to exist, and the fact that it has several enemies within very close proximity. But it doesn’t help your case when you act like a belligerent bully and continue to pull this kind of ‘My Way or the Highway’ bullshit. The Israeli gov’t continues to use us as their shield to protect them from the consequences of stirring hornets nests. I mean, the Palestinians are hardly blameless either, but to dare even suggest that Israel and it’s gov’t bears as much blame as the other side would be like saying you believed E.T. was a genuine documentary about alien life. It’s just not a fucking option, to the point where it seems like the only ones who ARE allowed to say it are Jews themselves, American and Israeli, and only the Israeli Jewish critics actually have their opinion respected enough to be represented in their media.

    I will disagree with you on one point though, John. It’s wholly apparent that they did NOT lose credibility on this, because they’re precisely the ones who decide who gets credibility or not. Somehow, it’s Obama that loses here, because despite saying what the last 3 presidents did, he apparently said it in such a way as to reveal his true, Anti-Israel, Palestinian Supporting black ass.

    They’re their own worst enemy, but unfortunately they’re our worst enemy too (though that last part is more directed at the jackass GOP and idiot Dems who apparently wish they had Bibi as their president instead of Obama).

  99. 99.

    arguingwithsignposts

    @Reality Check:

    having the market naturally flush failed and toxic investments out of their economic system (many of which were caused by Keyensianism) rather than try to delay (and make worse) the inevitable.

    I believe the UK bailed out their banking system. Some free market fairy, that.

  100. 100.

    alwhite

    JC – I can more than forgive you for reusing a title.
    .
    OPening up an endless flame war over Israel/Palestine is going to be harder to forgive 8-{)

  101. 101.

    Hill Dweller

    Austerity is exacerbating an already devastating situation in Europe. But leave it to the wingnuts to adhere to their bankrupt(fiscally and morally) philosophy, despite all evidence to the contrary.

  103. 103.

    Ghanima Atreides

    The biggest threat to is Israel is the Arab Spring.
    Because after the Arab Spring the American Fall.
    Already we can no longer force Egypt and Syria to make nice with Israel.
    The Egytian FM permanently opened the border crossing at Rafah two weeks ago, in what im sure was a treaty violation.
    A nation without borders cannot survive, I don’t care how many nukes and IDF stormtroopers they have.

    And a nation without justice cannot survive (props, Muhammed ibn Abdullah.) America the Unjust had better watch out too.

  106. 106.

    fasteddie9318

    @Reality Check: Now that’s some quality trolling. Ignore that they bailed out their banks AND talk about the market being “naturally flushed” as though there were anything natural about a market. Bonus points for pulling “naturally flushed” out of the same orifice to which it refers.

  107. 107.

    Munira

    @Brachiator: The nice thing about Quebec (where I live) is that it’s all talk basically. French Canadians are less and less interested in rocking the boat since they have no real problems with Canada – polls consistently show that there’s little interest in another referendum and the bloc quebecois (the separatist party) got creamed in the last election. Still people do like to talk and some like to pretend that Quebec is a nation unto itself, which causes a lot of spending of our tax money on duplicating services like immigration and pension plans.

  108. 108.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    @Hill Dweller:

    The absurd thing is the fact that despite their philosophy failing materially by all measures, they’ve managed to get it accepted as the only acceptable philosophy allowed in the US political sphere, as if it were the magic panacea to Utopia.

    This bullshit and the fantasy of Trickle-Down should be in a pine box and long forgotten like the era of boy bands. Instead, it continues to fail upward, and there honestly seems like no way to stop it anymore until it destroys us from the fucking inside. And then when that happens, the dirty fucking hippies will get the blame and the guillotine in the new Anarcho-Galtian wonderland.

  109. 109.

    Reality Check

    Liberals are the ones who beilieve in trickle-down: trickle-down government.

  110. 110.

    Bostondreams

    @Reality Check:

    And the UK is instituting real, conservative policies right now that are cutting regulations and slashing the fat out of their budget. It’s amazing what a functional political system can do!

    True. And their economy is just going oh so well as a result.

    And, of course, without Clegg and the leftists in the coalition government, the Tories can’t do much, can they?

    And how about that National Health Service? How very conservative of them.

  112. 112.

    Chyron HR

    @Reality Check:

    Trickle down government! Flush out all them toxic investments! Lamestream media!

    I think you’re looking for the last thread, Governor.

  115. 115.

    Hunter Gathers

    @PeakVT: I’m not so sure. Wingnuts don’t read Bobo. The conservatives who do read Bobo definitely don’t go for the inexplicable ‘Michelle O is overweight because of her rib consumption, wink, wink’ pushed by that shining example of physical fitness El Rushbo. Doug to the J is without internet for a while, but can obviously still post via cell phone. He’s almost incognito. But not quite. I just hope that he switches usernames. I do enjoy playing ‘Who’s That Troll?’.

  116. 116.

    Reality Check

    Still waiting for how my post about MO’s hypocricy on food and weight is “racist”. I guess it’s a kind of tourrette’s for leftists–they just can’t help saying it in every responde to a conservative.

  117. 117.

    Chyron HR

    @Reality Check:

    Like my messiah Glenn Beck says, Bam has a deep-seated racism against white people.

    Why must Republicans automatically call everyone they disagree with “racist”?

  119. 119.

    cat48

    I think this was coordinated between Bibi & GOP weeks ago & I’ve read a few things that imply that. The GOP did this to Pres. Clinton with Bibi to split the Jewish vote:
    At the outset of today’s remarks to the press on the meeting, Obama slyly referenced the “great honor” Netanyahu was receiving by addressing both houses of Congress.
    “I know that’s an honor that’s reserved for those who have always shown themselves to be a great friend of the United States and is indicative of the friendship between our countries,” Obama said, with an implied wink.
    “I think the Obama folks were upset with Bibi’s decision to speak at the joint session, they thought it was trying to box Obama in,” one former congressional staffer told the Envoy on condition of anonymity. “I think that relates to everyone’s memories of Bibi circa the 1990s trying to use the Republicans against Clinton. So they decided to preempt. They decided to set the stage. They were going to do a Mideast speech anyway, but they decided on the timing after Bibi decided to make an address to a joint session of Congress.”
    The decision not to brief the Israelis or other parties — nor line up key domestic allies — on what Obama intended to say on the Israeli-Palestinian issue until a couple hours before the speech was purposeful.
    “When you pre-brief a speech of the magnitude of the one yesterday where there will be some important new policies and announcements by the President of the United States, you are inviting a lobbying campaign to try to alter them,” said Amos Hochstein, a Middle East expert who advised the Obama campaign. “It’s important for the White House on occasion, and it’s their prerogative, that the world hear about these guidelines from the President.”

    Laura Rozen, The Envoy, Yahoo News, who has edited this because it was much more explicit before. Israeli Press Police I guess.

  120. 120.

    david mizner

    @Lolis:

    If the shoe don’t fit, don’t wear it. Come on, you can’t me there was a lot of anger in the progressive blogosphere toward Bibi until he was mean to the President. Killing 1,300 Gazans — okay. Being mean to the President — no way.

    But I know, I know, I should welcome them to the cause…but something tells me their interest is temporary.

  124. 124.

    Brachiator

    @Valdivia: totally OT—the BBC are GUSHING about Obama, everything, the gifts, his speech, M Obama’s dress. Obama was also a huge success in Ireland. Huge. From the Irish Times.

    Obama’s eloquence, self-deprecating humour, and patent empathy turned what otherwise might have been seen as pro forma diplomatic expressions of goodwill and shameless stroking of the national ego, turned into something heartwarming and inspiring. There’s nothing like welcoming one of our own back to the old sod, “to find the apostrophe we lost somewhere on the way”.

    And it is interesting to note that the editorial goes out of its way to praise Obama and the US for continuing to be engaged in the peace process regarding Northern Ireland. And there is an understated, but clear reminder that this engagement has positive implications for other areas. You know, like Israel.

    Obama reaffirmed, both in his speech and discussions with Taoiseach Enda Kenny, the welcome continuing US engagement with the peace process in the North – “we will continue to be there” – insisting that it “speaks to the possibilities of peace” elsewhere.

    The GOP, and Netanyahu, are on the wrong side of history, wanting to cling to Dubya’s ultimately “with us or against us” foolishness.

    The wrinkle of course is that as triumphalist as he may feel today about what he did, he, like the republicans he listens to, seems to think Obama has no game or doesn’t know how to play him and he already has. I really do think he miscalculated no matter how many standing ovations he got today.

    Sadly, this has been the case with the Netanyahu and the hardliners in the Israeli government since Obama’s election. They keep running to US officials who they think will blindly back them, and ignore any possibility for moving beyond an ultimately untenable position. Worse, they do far more to increase Israel’s vulnerability than they do to secure its stability and future.

  128. 128.

    fasteddie9318

    President of the United States and Israel Bibi Netanyahu

    What’s the deal with this, Cole? You always list the parent country first and the subordinate country second. You’ve got them backwards.

  129. 129.

    david mizner

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’ve participated in some of them. I don’t know why when I make a general reference to people, everyone here assumes I’m talking about Balloon Juice. When I said it, I was thinking more of Daily Kos.

  130. 130.

    Origuy

    Other Presidents have spoken to Parliament. Obama is the first to speak in Westminster Hall to both Houses. Reagan spoke in the Royal Gallery.

  131. 131.

    jwb

    @Hunter Gathers: Yes, BOB had a slyly stupid logic that made him very entertaining to engage and watch others engage. With RC, I just get the sense the troll is trying to stir up shit, but there is no substance of stupid to hold it together.

  132. 132.

    Valdivia

    @Brachiator:

    weird I had replied to you and it got swollen by the internet.
    Anyway, thanks for the Irish Times link.

    Completely agree on Bibi. He is replaying his 90s game and will pay for it dearly–again. Thought this time the whole country may go down in flames with him.

  133. 133.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @david mizner:

    I don’t know why when I make a general reference to people, everyone here assumes I’m talking about Balloon Juice.

    Because you posted the comment here, perhaps?

  135. 135.

    agrippa

    This problem is not going to be solved any time soon. In 40 years, our grand children will be having this same argument.

  136. 136.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @agrippa:

    This problem is not going to be solved any time soon. In 40 years, our grand children will be having this same argument.

    Anyone hoping for a final solution will surely be disappointed.

  139. 139.

    beltane

    Can everyone just stop responding to Reality Check please? From reading his posts, I get the impression he is sitting naked in front of his computer, getting starbursts every time someone pays him attention. Let us not contribute to this debauchery.

  142. 142.

    Jewish Steel

    But you know, unfettered access to Reality? And the capacity to make a Check on it?

    Maybe we’re throwing away a resource here, folks. I for one welcome our new sage.

  144. 144.

    agrippa

    @Reality Check:

    Liberals are the ones who beilieve in trickle-down: trickle-down government.

    Right wing boiler plate from “reality check”

    Do not expect me to ask you for advice any time soon; do not need it; do not want it.
    Keep typing though

  145. 145.

    General Stuck

    Some day, someone is going to tell the truth in this gawd fersaken country, and all hell will break loose. What was Obama thinking? I didn’t vote for his not delivering bullshit with sufficient consistency. And it’s no excuse stating American policy for the past 10 thousand years.

    I’m tired of the bloody kabucki the camera hungry assholes deliver upon us when they are stroking for pol points, and yes, both sides doit. And if they don’t get there 15 minutes, they go about blowing shit up till we have to suffer through another round of pigfucking by Bibi Netanyahoo, and all the rest of the ME circus of death with Hamas setting off firecrackers to provide the excuse for Jewish neo cons to kill a bunch of brown people. And hold a Gala afterwards. And Hamas to stoke the cycle of hate for their own pol reasons.

    Let’s move on to something more normal, like the wingnuts threatening to default our debt and cause global economic catastrophe.

  146. 146.

    Sad_Dem

    Nearly every morning that I visit John Hagee on cable he is busy prevaricating about what the Bible says the U.S. government must do to support Israel. Today he linked a sentence from Isaiah to the day in 1948 that the modern state of Israel was created. But he wasn’t done there. He went on to say that only one country can trace its origin to a specific day, and that country is Israel. So I guess all those Americans sitting watching him can’t remember September 15, 1821, the day that the nation of El Salvador gained independence from Spain. El Salvador, as you know, means “Savior” or “The Savior” in Spanish, which indicates the pivotal role that The Savior has in world affairs, since it is named after Jesus.

    Anyway, that fat lying wolf in sheep’s clothing, who claims to be a preacher of some kind, has lots and lots of followers who seem to believe that the political state of Israel is God’s special friend, so we better be super nice to it or else.

  151. 151.

    beltane

    @Sad_Dem: I guess that whole 4th of July thing was just a cruel hoax. Really, Hagee and his minions don’t care about Israel or the United States. All they want is Armageddon and the extermination of the human species. They are like cannibals without the courage to follow through on their deepest desires.

  154. 154.

    tkogrumpy

    @david mizner: Yes, of course, all the while hoping that some commenter at dkos will respond to you here at BJ . Ya, that makes sense.

  156. 156.

    Mnemosyne

    @david mizner:

    You don’t spend much time here, do you?

    Here’s an idea: Google “All About the Binyamins” and see what the last thread that Cole used that for was about. Then peruse the posts before and after that specific post, especially right around May 30th. Then wipe the egg off your face and STFU since you have no idea what you’re talking about.

  157. 157.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    @Sad_Dem:

    It’s kind of amazing, really, because most of the folks pimping the need for Israel in the US are Rapture Ready ‘Christians’ eager to see the unbelievers burn as God lifts his followers up and laugh at the silly Jews down below. Most of the Israel First-ers in this country don’t want it as an ally. They want it as a sacrifice to their Brutal Old Testament god.

  160. 160.

    Brachiator

    @Valdivia: Equally fun (though perhaps with a bit of blarney) is this report of the impact of Obama’s visit on the Irish village where a distant relative lives.

    Obama behaved like a man with all the time in the world – relaxed and at home with his people. IF HOME is where the heart is, then Barack Obama became a true son of Ireland yesterday. And we all walk a little taller today. But none more so than the villagers of Moneygall, who welcomed the president of the United States to their tiny village in Co Offaly and fell head over heels for his irresistible charm. It is a day they, and we, will never forget. Yet another day that will go down in song and story after a remarkable week of historic milestones for the country….
    __
    The honoured guest was met by Henry Healy, his Irish cousin (eight times removed) and two magnificently bechained council leaders from Offaly and Tipperary. The hug for young Henry was wide and warm and it set the tone for what was to come. After the pleasantries, Obama loped across to the swooning, screaming, singing crowd.
    __
    He plunged in – grabbing hands, grabbing babies, kissing babies; grabbing grannies, kissing grannies, getting kissed by grannies; hugging blushing farmers, embracing swooning teenagers and high-fiving simpering young fellas. He posed for photographs, flashing that famous smile. Crowd-surfing toddlers were bumped over adult heads and into his hands. He talked and he listened and he laughed. The delirious crowd broke into song.
    __
    “If you’re Irish, come into the parlour,
    There’s a welcome here for you.
    And if your name is Timmy or Barack,
    As long as you come from Ireland there’s a welcome on the mat . . .”

    And of course, today, Obama is being feted in England.

    Meanwhile, the GOP and Bibi want to pretend that Obama is out of touch, with insufficient understanding of the national scene. These people are dumber than Trump just before Obama schooled his butt at the White House Correspondent’s Dinner.

    By the way, the BBC site has live ongoing coverage of Obama’s visit to England here.

  161. 161.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    @Brachiator:

    Meanwhile, the GOP and Bibi want to pretend that Obama is out of touch, with insufficient understanding of the national scene. These people are dumber than Trump just before Obama schooled his butt at the White House Correspondent’s Dinner.

    Sadly, they still end up fucking winning because they get just enough people dumber than they are to rage and to vote, and the media continues to go all in on the GOP-fed Conventional Wisdom where Trickle Down is the most serious economic policy evar and them there brown folk are all anti-Israeli scary swarty brown savages.

  162. 162.

    Mnemosyne

    @Sad_Dem:

    You’d think that the recent faceplant by Camping would cure fundies of their numerology habits, but they just seem to double down after every failure, don’t they?

  163. 163.

    ChrisNYC

    You know what I don’t get about this whole thing?

    Why do Netanyahu and the GOP believe that this noisy attempt to embarrass the President — any US President — is going to sit well with the public? This is what, the third or fourth time that Netanyahu has done this routine since Obama has been office. Do they really think that Americans applaud this? It’s crazy. I know the AIPAC/pro-Israeli voters thing but this is just 24/7 on the news and certainly most Americans are not single-issue pro-Israel voters.

    Everyone knows about the power AIPAC wields in Congress, everyone knows about how we subsidize Israel. I don’t think these things sit well with people, generally. Why is Netanyahu so highlighting them? Just seems like bad strategy to me. I think they are really misreading this.

  164. 164.

    david mizner

    @Mnemosyne: @Mnemosyne:

    Jeez, so defensive here. A little club here, a club, that to hear you tell it, has long been advocates for Palestinian self-determination. Good for you. How do I get in? Do I have to act like a asshole that defends the good name of BJ whatever the truth? Where does the club y stand on the right of return? Surely Cole’s posted on this seeing as though he’s practically Edward Said. LOL>

  166. 166.

    Sad_Dem

    Omnes Omnibus @Sad_Dem: Why is July 4th a holiday in the US again?

    Beats me. Maybe they signed off on some paperwork that day. Nothing important like September 15, 1821.

  168. 168.

    Winston Smith

    [snarky remark about david mizner — proffered just to be in the cool crowd]*

    .* …who is totally correct about Daily Kos.

  169. 169.

    Mnemosyne

    @david mizner:

    Time to break out the waaaaaahmbulance. I mean, all you did was come in and accuse people of not actually caring about Israel and Palestine, and then when you realized you were demonstrably wrong, you desperately tried to backtrack and claim you weren’t talking about the people here, no sirree, you were actually talking about people on a completely different website.

    You’ve really got to step up your trolling skills if you want to survive here.

  170. 170.

    Keith G

    Bibi, and separately my brother, have said that the US needs Israel. We don’t. There may have been a time pre-1980 that the state of Israel contributed a bit to the security of the West, but no longer.

    Israel is just another country on the planet. I wish we would start treating it that way – nothing more and nothing less.

  172. 172.

    david mizner

    @Mnemosyne:

    I just laughed out loud, which I almost never do. Do you honestly think this is a tough place. Do you honestly this any blog is a tough place?

    “You’ve really got to step up your trolling skills if you want to survive here.”

    Survive here? What are you gonna do? Kill me with another mean comment? Lie again about what I said? I’m not gon…a…m —

    ake …i.

  173. 173.

    david mizner

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I wasn’t wrong at all. I was quite right. And you know I was: there’s been an outburst of interest in this issue that won’t survive the week. Just a fact. And the fact that people here responded with such over-the-top defensiveness and insecurity tells me that this basic dynamic will be true here as well.

  176. 176.

    fasteddie9318

    You guys are all a bunch of Glenn Greenwald purity acolytes who probably read Sullivan all day long and scream about how brilliant he is. Don’t try to bullshit me by pointing me to “previous threads” and “what people here have actually said about stuff.” I see through your feeble lies and prevarications straight to the Real Truth.

  177. 177.

    shortstop

    Who is this Mizner character and is he always so much like the Black Knight, only with less grace?

  178. 178.

    Mnemosyne

    @david mizner:

    Geez, you really are 12, aren’t you? You’d better check with Mommy and see if she’ll let you keep using the computer so close to dinnertime.

  179. 179.

    debbie

    Am I the only one who remembers Netanyahu slamming Abbas for not being able to control Hamas? Now he’s condemning Abbas for doing what he’d wanted him to?

  182. 182.

    Ghanima Atreides

    @Just Some Fuckhead: you know fuckhead, i’m just pointing out the obvious.
    America is the powerless hyperpower now.
    Hillary couldn’t stop Egypt from opening the Rafah crossing, and the shaitan bargain the US has had with Assad lo these many years (we wont try to destabilize you as long as the border with the jews is quiet) is melting in the Arab Spring.
    If al-Ikhwan topples America’s Special Friend the King of Jordan that border will crumble too.
    I really don’t have any empathy for a paranoid society that justifies war on children.
    America can’t protect Israel anymore, even if we wanted to.
    And we want to less and less.

  184. 184.

    fasteddie9318

    @debbie:

    Am I the only one who remembers Netanyahu slamming Abbas for not being able to control Hamas? Now he’s condemning Abbas for doing what he’d wanted him to?

    Hah, I can take you back earlier than that, to years if not decades of Great Power bitching that the Palestinians needed to have free and fair elections because this Arafat guy was a terrorist dictator thug and us Great Powers don’t cotton to no dictator thugs, nosiree. Then the Palestinians had free and fair parliamentary elections in 2006, and the Great Powers didn’t like who they voted for so they imposed sanctions on them. This is how you win hearts and minds and spread the message that democracy is a noble and worthwhile thing.

  185. 185.

    4jkb4ia

    I’m slacking. You do this shit for ten years.

    Naaah, this is commentary that the Israelis are so disgusted with everybody that John was in the situation to have to do it twice.

    I am not sorry to have missed the speech. Jeffrey Goldberg was very bored with it.

  186. 186.

    El Cid

    @david mizner: FWIW, I’m not particularly excited about Netanyahu because however people want to paint Israeli militarist policies as the property of “Likud” (how could it be otherwise, right? the other parties must have done so much different!), to most international observers what he has actually done is thoroughly contiguous with prior governments.

    It was Kadima, for example, that blew the shit out of Gaza, and there was zero leaders in the US giving a shit, no, in fact there were resolutions of support and cheering the powerderizing of hundreds of Gaza civilians and the leveling of so much of the tiny, super-populated food-deficient hellhole.

    And people somehow think that pulling out the military and evacuating settlements from the Gaza strip was some noble concession to peace. Newsflash: they don’t want any land there. And they don’t need to occupy it to control the coast and at least deny access to the potential natural gas reserves offshore.

    It’s the West Bank which has the valuable stuff Israeli policymakers (and their lackeys, those terrible settlers who are so mean to force the Israeli government to keep encouraging their efforts) want.

    And Netanyahu or whoever, the Israeli policymaking establishment will extract every tiny thing they could possibly desire from the WB & East J., and impose every last dreamed barrier screwing over any coherent Palestinian territories and economy, and then suddenly it will be time to sign a great peace agreement and everyone will be happy except for all those danged whiners who got their independent state.

    And of course it will also be their fault that the Pal’s will fail to have elected the perfect government which can magically super-overcome all those odds which of course aren’t really there and it’s just their whining.

    So while it’s not true that there’s no difference between worse and even more worse — i.e., the targeting of Israeli Arabs as a seditious population — I’m not going to play this silly game of blaming the ‘likudniks’ for the longstanding policies of the Israeli state.

    Netanyahu is, however, a real prick and the typical loudmouth sneering insulting US Republican, which he really is.

  187. 187.

    AxelFoley

    @david mizner:

    Good move by Bibi. He—and his allies in the GOP —pretend Obama said something new and different, ensuring the President won’t do anything meaningful to push Israel toward peace. (Not that he was going to.)

    Ah, decided to take a break from Kos to come here and spew your bullshit, huh, dave?

  188. 188.

    AxelFoley

    @Reality Check:

    So I hear that (much like his policies) Obama’s limo bottomed out in Ireland. The only question that remains is this: which side was Michelle sitting on? Looks like the Beast may need a “No Fat Chicks” bumper stickers (doubly ironic she wants to price fatty food out of reach of anyone but the rich, she is as hypocritical as she is pear-shaped).

    Oh, I didn’t know Rush Limbaugh posted here. Calling the First Lady fat? Very Limbaughstic.

    Hey, why don’t you go fuck yourself, punk bitch?

  189. 189.

    AxelFoley

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    @david mizner: Something tells me you have never paid any attention to previous I/P threads here.

    Or at DKos, where he spews most of his bullshit. The I/P diaries there are probably worse than here.

  191. 191.

    bob h

    I suppose this is all Kabuki theater. The important thing for our relations with the Muslim world is that we appear to be on the outs with Netanyahu, and Obama achieved that. Jewish campaign contributions are well worth standing applauses, and Netanyahu has tossed red meat to the primitive right at home.

  192. 192.

    Chris

    @El Cid:

    FWIW, I’m not particularly excited about Netanyahu because however people want to paint Israeli militarist policies as the property of “Likud” (how could it be otherwise, right? the other parties must have done so much different!), to most international observers what he has actually done is thoroughly contiguous with prior governments.

    Yep.

    Israel is basically dominated by two parties, a far right party, and a vaguely centrist party that often seems like just a toned-down version of the far right. The system is also beholden to small groups of pull-out-all-the-stops extremist psychos who can wreck governing coalitions if they’re ignored and therefore have influence out of proportion to their size.

    (Sound like any other country you know?)

    It’s true that most previous Israeli governments haven’t had a second’s hesitation of blowing up as many Arabs as it took if they felt it was warranted. However, one thing that’s changed since the 1970s is that the original secular Zionism’s increasingly been phased out in favor of the religious fundamentalist kind.

    I can see some of the old Labor guard making concessions if they really thought it would make Israel safer in the long run (and indeed, the closest we’ve come was with Rabin and Barak, both Labor leaders). But when people think “Judea and Samaria” were literally given to you by God and the Palestinians are an infestation with no right to be there, it gets kind of hard to negotiate with them.

    That’s what people mean when they complain about “Likudniks,” I think. At any rate that’s what I mean.

    (Of all the things that’ve gone wrong since the seventies, religious fundamentalism is one of the worst, IMHO. In all three religions).

  195. 195.

    Chris

    @Paul in KY:

    Yeah, but didn’t you hear her? After the Arab Spring comes the American Fall! Your facts can’t repel bumper sticker wisdom of THAT magnitude!

  197. 197.

    Bulworth

    President of the United States and Israel Bibi Netanyahu gave a speech today to Congress,

    This entire post totally throws President of the United States and Israel, Bibi Netanyahu, under the bus.

  198. 198.

    Bulworth

    Also, too, President of the United States and Israel, Bibi Netanyahu, has demanded the U.S. attack Iran before it gets nukes. That should go well. If Obama fails to comply with this order, he will be throwing Israel (and the U.S.!!) under the bus.

Comments are closed.