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You are here: Home / Pet Blogging / Dog Blogging / Another Open Thread

Another Open Thread

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For the last two weeks, I’ve been crate training Rosie for a variety of reasons. It was a little hectic at first, with her whining, but she settles down after about fifteen minutes or so. This worked well for the first week, at which point she began to realize that late at night the fat man comes for her and puts her in the box. So last week, I had to find where she was hiding, coax her out to go for a walk, and then walk her while still leashed into the crate. All this fell apart last night, as she has now associated me turning off the lights and the tv with the crate. Last night, I turned off the tv, and Rosie immediately shot off the couch and raced under my bed and was not coming out for anyone. She wasn’t going to be fooled by that “Who wants to go for a walk” shit, either. I still had to take Lily out, though, because she would have pottied on the floor after I got her so excited saying “walk” multiple times trying to get my problem child in her crate. I finally lured her into the crate with a piece of pizza crust- I put it in there and waited until she was halfway in the crate and jumped out of bed and shut the door behind her.

At any rate, I’m running out of ways to outsmart my god damned dog.

Reader Interactions

100Comments

  6. 6.

    Violet

    This worked well for the first week, at which point she began to realize that late at night the fat man comes for her and puts her in the box.

    Are you putting her in the box at times other than late at night? Maybe try putting her in the box at times other than night for a week or so, always rewarding her with something she likes, so she gets used to the idea. Then graduate her to night time.

  7. 7.

    RoonieRoo

    You need to start associating the crate with positive. Right now it is a very negative place for Rosie. She’s lost her place on the bed in the den with the pack since I’m pretty sure Lily is still in the bed with you.

    1) Feed Rosie in her crate.
    2) If she has a favorite chew that is SAFE for her to be alone with, that needs to go in her crate with her ONLY at bed time. She should only get it then and no other time.

    You have to make the crate the reward place at the end of the day.

  8. 8.

    Phoebe

    Treats treats treats treats treats. My dogs race to their jails because they know they will be given treats through the bars. One of them won’t get in until I throw the treat inside, but the other one gets in, turns around, grinning, and thumps her tail on the dog bed I stuffed in there, happy as can be. The “crate” is supposed to be the happy place. Also put chew toys in there and rotate them, I’m told. I would do this but I’m lazy and the treat system is absolutely working like a charm.

    Also it has to be a treat they really like. I give them Nature’s Variety “Instinct” Grain-Free Biscuit Treats. They come in flavors such as “Rabbit Meal, Apples and Ginger”, and are expensive but totally worth it. And they are ONLY for the cage.

  9. 9.

    General Stuck

    Dogs figure shit out how to get up one. I always take Charlie out for a pee break around 11 or so before bed time. And after a while, I guess he noticed that I would stand still and not interrupt his business until he was finished. So in order to lengthen the outside time he lives for, he started gradually keeping his leg hiked up for longer periods, and I mean for several minutes, well after he’s done. Until one day I caught on to the little rascal, but just said fuck it, and let him hike that leg as long as can keep it there. And I will just stand around looking like a moron a little longer.

  11. 11.

    kdaug

    @cathyx:

    Maybe try feeding her in there. You know, meal time.

    This, plus find her favorite toy, and make the crate it’s new home. Permanently. Don’t let her bring it out, and ignore the whining when she’s out but she wants her toy. The toy becomes the reward.

    (Also, for your own sake, make sure it’s not one of those damn squeeky things unless you want to listen to “squeek-squeek-squeek” all night long).

  12. 12.

    numfar

    Put her in there at random times and leave the house. Eventually, it’ll become her little cave.

  13. 13.

    vegjean

    I agree with the people who advocate high value treats. I start dogs off with a couple of Kongs stuffed with Biljac, kibble, and peanut butter. After a few months, I start cutting back on the Kong filling, then move to some biscuits instead of stuffed Kongs, and finally offer just a couple of Snap-size biscuits. My dogs love their crates–and even my crazy separation-anxiety dog has gotten used to the crate and runs right in to wait for her treats. You just have to make it an amazingly good deal for her.

  15. 15.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    John, John, John, *big sigh*

    You are ostracizing Rosie from the pack so of course you are going to encounter negative behavior. Dogs are pack animals and require affirmation from the pack. The only way to provide this affirmation while simultaneously crating her is to crate all of you, each in your own crate, facing one another in a semicircle. After two weeks of crating for all of you, you can pretend you figured out how to sneak out of the crate. Dogs respect sneaky behavior. After another couple weeks, “sneak” Lily out of her crate, then Tunch. Rosie won’t complain because she’ll think she’s too stupid to sneak herself out and will consider this a personal failing and not blame you for being a cruel ostracizing owner.

  16. 16.

    KyCole

    It’s funny, but my pup (she’s 17 months now) seems to know to go into her crate when I come downstairs dressed for work. If I’m just in crap clothes she has to be told. I know she doesn’t love it, but her favorite bone is always in there with her. Of course this doesn’t work with all dogs. Once we had a Shitzu that my husband thought my daughter would want (not). I still remember the daily chase to get her into the crate so we could all leave for the day.

  18. 18.

    bryanD

    What’s the deal with all the dog leashes on this site?
    Let the dog out to do its business and at the first hint of the dog leaving the property, go all Nazi sergeant major for 1/4 second.

    (If you are a loud person around the house anyway, this might not work.)

  19. 19.

    maven

    Rewarding your child with food won’t end well. And if you incarcerate your children at night, you shouldn’t have children.

  25. 25.

    Phoebe

    @maven: This is all true. About children. Not dogs, though. They are completely different, regardless of how the owner feels (“they’re my children!”).

  26. 26.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @maven:

    I know that.

    In your defense, John called her a child once and a dog once, but only at the very end.

  27. 27.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Phoebe: My brother used to be kept on a leash when the family went rock climbing. He would be attached to a tree.

  28. 28.

    superluminR droid

    I don’t own Dogs, and know nothing about Dogs, but why can’t you simply shoot the one causing you problems? That would solve it, right?

  29. 29.

    cathyx

    @maven: My point being that what you might do in cases of a pet wouldn’t necessarily translate in the same actions with a human being. Most dogs actually like being in a crate, it makes them feel safe and secure. I wouldn’t recommend doing that to your child.

  35. 35.

    Corner Stone

    I say we go full out blog battle. Here and now. No time like the present.

  36. 36.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    You’re not allowed to shoot them unless you make it look like an accident and then you’ll prolly still get a firearms charge. The best way to rid yourself of a troublesome dog is to drop it off in the middle of the woods. Then, inevitably, some sucker drives along and thinks “Oh my god, that poor little doggie has been abandoned..”

    Then the scene fades out with the dog grinning out the passenger’s side window with a red malevolent glow in her eyes.

  38. 38.

    maven

    @cathyx: But this Fur-Child doesn’t like being in a crate, notwithstanding what Your children like.

    I actually like being in a confined protected space. In fact, I don’t have a doorbell, which my neighbors find quite unusual.

  42. 42.

    Kewalo

    John, please keep us informed how this is going. I’ve been thinking of trying to crate our demented dog. Our dog is very much like Rosie. If I could I would not have her, but I don’t have a choice.

    Kainoa doesn’t like peanut butter…can you think of anything else I might put in her kong? She does like liverwurst so that is what I’ve been using. But dang, that gets expensive.

  43. 43.

    superluminR droid

    The best way to rid yourself of a troublesome dog is to drop it off in the middle of the woods.

  45. 45.

    4jkb4ia

    DK Elections has just started their third NY-26 open thread. Offered merely as an irresistible observation.

  47. 47.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    They outlawed shooting dogs because Old Yeller was rabid? I am not sure you have your facts straight.

    It should be pretty obvious to everyone here that I’m an expert on canine behavior and you are just trying to get John to shoot his fucking dog.

  49. 49.

    MagicPanda

    So, assuming that Hochul actually won, will Republicans (and the MSM) see the win as a referendum on Medicare and the Ryan budget? Will this cause a few more Republican congressmen/women to back away from the Ryan budget?

  53. 53.

    MagicPanda

    @Omnes Omnibus: Well, in the grand scheme of things, I guess it’s better for us if they don’t come to grips with reality. Otherwise, they might wise up in time for 2012 somehow.

  54. 54.

    cbear

    @Just Some Fuckhead: That’s an incredibly sexist comment, dude.

    Btw, what do you do if they come back all weepy and moany and tell you they forgot their purse or lipstick or some such shit?

  55. 55.

    Corner Stone

    @MagicPanda: Corwin has already been granted a prelim stay of having anyone certified as the winner.
    So expect R ratfucking hardcore from her in.

  56. 56.

    MagicPanda

    @Corner Stone: I saw the headline but I never read the article. On what basis did Corwin preemptively ask for a stay of having the election winner be certified?

  57. 57.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Just because you are afraid someone will shoot you down like a rabid dog doesn’t mean you get to lie about things.

    Bullshit.

  62. 62.

    Capri

    The one advantage we have over dogs is that they can not think a pass ahead. If they associate going into a crate with getting a treat, they’ll want to go into the crate.

    I hate to admit that I’m slumming, but I’ve become a Steelers fan by watching Hines Ward on Dance With the Stars. He’s a real classy, sexy dude.

  63. 63.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Capri:

    I hate to admit that I’m slumming, but I’ve become a Steelers fan by watching Hines Ward on Dance With the Stars. He’s a real classy, sexy dude

    You shouldn’t be watching Dancing With the Stars. It took me 12 and half long years of therapy to stop dressing like Denny Terrio on Dance Fever. I still keep loose sequins in a drawer for good luck.

  64. 64.

    Anne Laurie

    This is what worked for our accidental rescue Gloria, who is so alpha she lifts her leg to pee & came to us willing to bite anyone who tries to interfere with her: Go to the supermarket, or your butcher, and buy the biggest, greasiest ‘soup bone’ you can find, something so big she’ll find it difficult to lift & impossible to run away with. When you’ve got a few minutes free, show her the soup bone, let her sniff it & realize just how desirable it is, and then put the bone in the crate. She gets the bone when she’s in the crate, and ONLY when she’s in the crate. If necessary, take a length of wire or chain, run it thru the bone, and chain it inside the crate.

    Rosie should also be taking her meals in the crate (the bone AND her dinner can both be offered, but don’t try feeding her in the crate until she understands about The Bone). And probably spending a few minutes there every day while you’re vacuuming or mopping naked or fixing mojitos, just because. But she’ll have her Very Desirable Soup Bone!, which for a food-oriented pig-dog like Rosie is an excellent tradeoff. When she’s worked every edible molecule off the bone, you can replace it with another one, or you can stuff the hollow core with peanut butter (or suet) and let her work on extracting it.

    Lily doesn’t get a bone, because that will only lead to fights between the two dogs. She doesn’t NEED a bone, because for her the biggest “reward” is extra time alone with the Star At the Center of Her Universe, namely you. From what you’ve said, she’s far more attention-motivated than food-motivated, but if you feel guilty you can slip her an extra biscuit or other treat once Rosie’s locked in her crate (preferably out of piglet’s line of sight). Lily already identifies herself as “The Dog John Loves Most”; the idea is to give Rosie her own identity as “The Dog Who Knows How to Den Up, and Is Rewarded for Her Skillz”.

    Good for you to be working on finding a home for Rosie where she can be loved as much as Lily is loved in your home!

  67. 67.

    Anne Laurie

    @Kewalo:

    Kainoa doesn’t like peanut butter…can you think of anything else I might put in her kong? She does like liverwurst so that is what I’ve been using. But dang, that gets expensive.

    I’ve known people who used suet, or aerosol cheez-from-a-can, or bits of whatever chicken innards or ‘sweetbreads’ were available cheapest that week. Nutritionally appalling, but preferable to the ‘shoot the damned animal’ solution…

    True story: I was using small cubes of Velveeta as a training treat for a dog who didn’t respond to any of the usual chicken bits / beef cubes / Zukes. The little sheltie working next to us in the row was insanely interested in my ideas, so after class I asked her person if it was okay to give her a cube. “Cheese?” he said, “Well, you must have something quite special, because she won’t bother with anything less than imported asiago!”…

  68. 68.

    CynDee

    I’ve had many dogs, and none, NONE, ever considered a crate anything but scary, horrible prison. They did not find it comforting in the least; just the opposite. I hear differently from the experts, but I will never try to create a dog again. I followed what “worked” for others; it did not “work” for these dogs. Maybe I was going about it all wrong, maybe not, but it seems to me that a comforting space is also one that you can get out of at will. Otherwise, it’s just involuntary confinement, a horrible experience.

  69. 69.

    pjcamp

    Cheese, dude.

    Throw a big hunk of cheese into the back of the crate.

    Problem solved. My dogs will eat gravel from the driveway as long as it has cheese wrapped around it. Plain old Kroger pasteurized process cheese food slices, cheap as you can get.

    That reminds me — somebody needs medicine.

    We like medicine at our house.

  70. 70.

    Mnemosyne

    Today was a crappy day. Fortunately, I have alcohol, the cause of — and solution to — all of life’s problems.

    Mnemo +1 (which will probably put me right to sleep)

  71. 71.

    Seth

    If you have a soft dog food your dog likes, you can fill the kong with that. You can also freeze the kong so it takes longer.

  72. 72.

    Shinobi

    Our crazy seperation anxiety husky can be coaxed into his crate via kong filled with cream cheese.

    Unfortunately, as soon as the cream cheese is gone, he freaks out and starts bending the bars in an attempt to escape. (He will also often get the runs.) He has the exact opposite problem, he only gets more upset the longer he is in the crate.

    But he WILL kennel now on command, he has to kennel to get his dinner, and for special treats. We just don’t lock him in there because being locked up seems to only make him crazier.

    Of course, that means we don’t leave him home alone ever….. sigh. But at least he will go into his crate.

  73. 73.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Alright John, looks like you’ve got some ideas to roll with:

    1. Crate in the daytime and then she’ll already be there when it’s time to go to bed.

    2. Dogs figure shit out how to get up one, whatever the hell that means. You may want to try that one drunk.

    3. Random crating, so she never knows when yer gonna be fucking with her.

    4. Chew toy in the crate.

    5. For the love of God, please tell me you aren’t talking about a real child!

    6. Crates for everyone, also known as empathetic bondage.

    7. Shoot her and/or make her into a casserole. (Pro-tip, don’t use a shotgun if yer going with the casserole idea.)

    8. Drop her off in the woods, with an admonishment that this is what happens to bad dogs that won’t crate.

    9. Gift Basket for Dogs featuring assorted cheeses, bones, peanut butter snacks and liverwurst. A great way to say I’m sorry for shunning you.

  74. 74.

    Steeplejack

    Night shift checking in.

    Okay, National Geographic is now officially dead to me, at least their TV channel. I just got home from work, flipped on the TV and see that the program now showing is When Aliens Attack–and they’re not talking about wetbacks. Breathy announcer, scary but meaningless graphics, interviews with sketchy “experts,” etc. “Experts say this science fiction scenario is possible . . .”

    I know they have been going downhill for a while, but this just feels like a new (and drastic) low.

    Okay, over to ESPN for the baseball recap.

  75. 75.

    Anne Laurie

    @CynDee:

    I’ve had many dogs, and none, NONE, ever considered a crate anything but scary, horrible prison. They did not find it comforting in the least; just the opposite.

    One thing dogs have in common with children is that they can hone in the Big Person’s attitude better than most polygraph machines. You’d be surprised how many dogs are good with “scary, horrible prison” as long as their crate-dubious owners aren’t around. There are indeed some small percentage of dogs who just can’t cope with crates — usually those who’ve had horrible experiences, on the scale of being abandoned in one for several days, or puppy mill survivors — but if EVERY dog in your life has reacted that negatively, probably it’s not the dogs, it’s you. Which is fine, you’ll just have to find a different solution with any future dogs that live with you, but it doesn’t apply to the vast majority of modern American canines.

  76. 76.

    Corner Stone

    Just give the fucking dog to a no kill shelter, you stubborn motherfucker.
    You hate her. We know it. She knows it.

  77. 77.

    Keith G

    At any rate, I’m running out of ways to outsmart my god damned dog.

    That ship sailed a long time ago.

  80. 80.

    Steeplejack

    @Steeplejack:

    Okay, I have now read the thread and see that my earlier comment was not consistent with the “theme” of this “open” thread. So I will rectify.

    My brother Dr. Amberjack, M.D., just got another rescue greyhound, and she loves her crate. She’s about 22 months old, only about three weeks off the track, and she has no socialization at all. She doesn’t understand about stairs, about inside and outside, about “houses,” about interacting with a human for more than five minutes a day, etc., etc. She is making progress by leaps and bounds, but when it gets too stressful she loves to retreat to her crate and chill out in security. That or the landing between the first and second floor–as long as no humans try to use the stairs.

  81. 81.

    zoej

    We had an Akita for many years who was smarter than I was. The only reason I was boss was my opposable thumbs. Tricks never worked with Ed, only negotiation. The deal we worked out involved McDonald’s hamburgers and being asked to get in the car to get a burger, eating half the burger in the car and getting the other half in the crate. Eventually, I was able to buy a couple weeks worth of burgers at once, freeze them, and then just microwave one and toss it into the crate. It had to be McDonald’s pretty much although occasionally he would go for a polish dog from costco, but we couldn’t do that twice in a row. Many a night, I went thru the McDonald’s drive up in my jammies.

  82. 82.

    zoej

    ps The current dog, JoJo, a refugee from the pound is terrified of crates probably from the pound. He does love his Target dog tent and goes in cheerfully at all hours. It is also a great place for extra grandchildren to sleep on sleepovers, or so they say.

  85. 85.

    maven

    @Steeplejack: Any dog that ‘loves’ her crate, has no socialization, etc with all the extras you add; doesn’t need to be put in a crate to feel secure.

    There are many missing chapters in your coments on how to be a responsible dog owner, or pet rescuer.

    And undoubtedly, many links to help you do that.

  86. 86.

    Steeplejack

    @maven:

    Not sure what you’re getting at. The dog goes in the crate voluntarily, and the door is open. She feels secure in there as she gets used to her new and completely strange environment.

  88. 88.

    Kewalo

    @Anne Laurie:

    Thanks Annie, she loves cheese so the cheese in a can is a good idea and I’ll bet she loves suet too.

    Thankfully, she likes all cheese…

  89. 89.

    Yog-Sothoth

    Consistent bribery works.

    We have 2 Bichons, Moxie and Piper. When Moxie was a little puppy, we kept her in the laundry room when we went to work and put a toddler grate in the doorway. Getting her in the room was always tricky.

    After we got Piper we got two kennels. When they go in, they get a piece of chicken jerky. Now all we have to do is say “Kennel Time!” and they’re there in a flash.

  90. 90.

    shano

    You need what we call a “high value” treat (not pizza crust). make her bedtime a ritual. She gets a high value treat when you say “kennel up!” (crate up, etc) and praise, good dog. I use pieces of bullie bars. my dog gets one a day for not barking and staying on the porch. Word+action+food thats pretty much dog training.

  92. 92.

    Paul in KY

    @Just Some Fuckhead: In KY you can shoot them. You just better aim right & kill it with one shot (humanely, cover the head with a towel so it doesn’t know what is happening). If you don’t put the animal down with the first shot & it suffers, then you can get an animal cruelty charge.

    Now, if the animal is in the process of running your livestock, then you can shoot as many times as is necessary to stop the animal.

  95. 95.

    kc

    This story will end with John spending the night in the crate while Rosie sleeps on the bed.

  96. 96.

    Carol from CO

    I gave up on the crate. Now, after I finally get him into the bedroom at night, I close the bedroom door so he can’t do his business in the rest of the our home. He’s only messed in the bedroom once and that was the evening of the day he was neutered so I cut him some slack.

  97. 97.

    RGuy

    You have to feed her in the crate too. You need to make the association that’s its a good place. Start putting her meals in there. You don’t have to lock the door on her when you feed her though. Every time you stick her in there at other times give her a treat. Also, as someone else mentioned before stick her in there at various times of the day to throw her off. You want to positive reinforce this.

  98. 98.

    acallidryas

    Treats, treats, treats. You just need to find the one she can’t resist. My spoiled brat of a cat knows that if she wakes us up at night, she gets shut in the basement, but she still wants attention 24/7. So she likes to knock things off of dressers at 3am and then run under the bed or another piece of furniture while we try to catch her, which is a perfectly fun game for her. (Did I mention she’s a bit of a brat?) But her will power is nothing compared to her favorite toy and/or some fish flavored cat treats. Shake one of them, she comes right out, and into the basement she goes. And a dog, even Rosie, has to be easier to train than my cat.

  99. 99.

    Tonal Crow

    @MagicPanda:

    @Corner Stone: I saw the headline but I never read the article. On what basis did Corwin preemptively ask for a stay of having the election winner be certified?

    On the basis that the winner is a Democrat.

  100. 100.

    BattleCat

    I’ve never owned a dog, but in my opinion brushing their teeth once a night works wonders for their stank breath.

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