Some people call it freedom, others call it letting the benighted stay benighted:
Government regulations mandating storm shelters, either public or private, are inconsistent. There are some regulations for apartment buildings, and some states, like Minnesota and Kansas, require that shelters be built near mobile home parks. Many areas, like Williamson County in Illinois, commandeer churches or schools to serve as voluntary shelters.
Alabama passed a law this year that requires shelters to be built into new schools. But cities do not require residents to build their own storm shelters.
Making federal assistance for public works projects contingent on mandating shelters, and providing federal grants for shelters, would be a good way to pump a few billion into the economy, as well as expand our manufacturing base (for prefab shelters). I doubt it will even be proposed, for the usual reasons, even though the frequency of severe weather might be on the rise due to global warming.
gnomedad
OT, Maddow has some film title coinage action going.
capt
“even though the frequency of severe weather
might beIS on the rise due to global warming.”There I fixed it.
A Farmer
I was going to alter it to:
because the frequency of severe weather
4tehlulz
Does this mean the Fallout Shelter sign is coming back?
Comrade Javamanphil
Welcome to the new normal. Don’t get used to it. It’s about to get much worse.
Betty
Stop making so much sense!
PeakVT
Great, another opportunity for Red State welfare that they will happy take and simultaneously denounce.
Ghanima Atreides
Distributed Jesusland in action.
Like Dr. Manzi said, its the paradox of libertarianism.
Which is just a fancy way of saying localized mob rule.
Hewer of Wood, Drawer of Water
Do these people not understand the lesson to be learned from The Three Little Pigs?
arguingwithsignposts
On a totally OT note, Congressman McHenry continues to get slammed on his Facebook page. I hope he’s listening, but I doubt it.
cathyx
Priceless video you need to watch. Typical republican.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ewtMeAdKk
Ash Can
@arguingwithsignposts: McHenry isn’t listening to anyone but his corporate bankrollers/bosses.
Cat Lady
@cathyx:
Wow. “It’s free!” That’s his answer? Really? I love how then he wants to talk about immigration. Calling these assholes out like that woman did needs to be done for every single one of these pricks – all you just have to say is “I want what you have, and tell me why I can’t”, and watch them fold. The end.
WereBear
I love the WPA/Shelter idea; give it to the kids.
They can text and Facebook their way to incredible pressure; only morons who aren’t in their right mind will oppose it.
Then the kids can learn about Republicans.
Brian R.
Does anyone know if all those assholes who were saying after Katrina how we needed to abandon the city because it was built below sea level are saying we need to abandon the region known as Tornado Alley because it’s, you know, prone to tornadoes?
Dave
Communist.
ppcli
I hate to be a party pooper, but…
Look, it’s plausible that we’re seeing an increased frequency of these tornadoes due to global warming, but my impression is that the climate scientists who are addressing the issue have been very tentative about whether or not there might be any connection. Maybe I’ve missed some reports that are more definitive – if so I’m sure someone here will correct me. But let’s stick to the reality-based standpoint here, and leave the ideologically motivated armchair meteorology to hacks like Inhofe. There are enough other documented bad effects of climate change to worry about that we don’t need to jump the gun on this one.
Omnes Omnibus
@cathyx: Because I am a freeloading hypocrite.” Brilliant.
Kane
Even if you are absolutely convinced that the vast majority of scientists are involved in some mass conspiracy and that climate change is a complete fraud, it still makes sense to wean ourselves off of fossil fuels for economic, national security, environmental and health reasons.
There are countless reasons why we should move as a country towards a green future. But there’s only one reason to maintain our addiction to fossil fuels; that reason is to enrich big oil and coal corporations.
bemused
@Brian R.:
Speaking of Katrina reminded me about Sen Trent Lott. His $750,000 beachfront Mississippi home was destroyed in the hurricane. He had flood insurance but he was really poed that State Farm payout wasn’t enough to rebuild. He sued but I don’t remember how that ended. Anyway, the good senator was suddenly concerned for others in the same situation, pounded his fist while on the floor talking about the insurance issue saying there will be “hell to pay”.
As long as no Republican has lost a home (yet) due to these humongous disasters, the response from republicans will be ‘no funding for you unless you give us what we want’.
PeakVT
@ppcli: I agree, but climate change is and will take place over a time scale that is longer than humans easily comprehend. People feel the need to work immediate events into a narrative. It’s hard to resist.
@Kane: That’s a good point, but it depends on the same kind of rational thought that a rational response to climate change does. But both climate change and energy conservation have become a tribal issue for the right, so…
gex
@Kane: There’s another reason to maintain the fossil fuel addiction: pissing off liberals. For most righties, that’s the primary goal, not the enrichment of Big Oil.
They’re convinced if everyone “boycotts” purchasing gas on one specific day they can bring Big Oil to its knees. When they aren’t filling up in the middle of the night because “when it is cooler out gas condenses and you can get more gas per gallon” or something. I can’t keep up with the email forwards. They’re all equally stupid.
maya
Under Confederalism shouldn’t they be building slave shanties instead? And any Mosques in their dominion mandated into SCV halls?
gex
I should add, I received the “fill up in the middle of the night” email in January. In Minnesota. Because it’s so damn warm during the days, you know.
gene108
@ppcli: I agree. Scientists cannot correlate specific weather events to an increase in Green House gases in the atmosphere.
I do think human activity will kick the Green House effect up a notch.
This doesn’t mean we have the ability to say, “this thunderstorm is a direct result of global warming”, versus other things, which might effect the weather patterns such as oscillations in ocean currents, solar variations, and wobbles in the Earth’s orbit around the Sun.
Villago Delenda Est
@ppcli:
Well, the climate change scientists are about climate, not weather. So they’re not going to discuss specific phenomena, such as the tornado that wiped out Tulsa, Oklahoma, or the hurricane that leveled Savannah.
But the thing is, these weather systems are a function of warmer climates. More heat, greater intensity. Warmer air masses colliding with cooler air masses, with a greater differential between the, more violent storms.
Of course, one has to be into science to figure this out, and use critical thinking skills. Which is why the people you’d expect to deny this is going on are the ones who are denying this is going on. Trying to understand how our world works is in conflict with the notion that an invisible sky buddy is pulling the strings.
Jennifer
@ppcli: Thank you for that. I had this same discussion elsewhere online just a couple of days ago. Is it possible that global climate change could play a role in creating more or more devastating tornadoes? Yes, but it’s a hypothetical at this point. Tornadoes have been around as long as there have been colliding cold and warm air masses. There were years as bad or worse than this one for killer tornadoes 50 and 75 years ago, and storms as bad or worse than those that destroyed Joplin and Tuscaloosa. They tend to be features of La Nina weather patterns, and the La Nina cycle has been around a lot longer than human-caused climate change as well.
That doesn’t mean it’s not possible that there’s a correlation between more frequent/more powerful tornadoes and global warming, but certainly at this point that’s a speculation rather than a proven fact.
wenchacha
I was interested to see that Japan is proposing, maybe requiring(?) much greater amounts of solar-technology be built into future buildings, as one response to the earthquake/tsunami/nuclear thingy they had. If Tornado Alley is an area that will still be inhabited by farming communities, etc., what can they do to reduce possibilities of future damage? Insurance is swell, but doesn’t reduce the cleanup issues and damage to schools and hospitals. Would earth-bermed housing be safer and more practical? It could certainly help with heating/cooling costs of a home, as well as protecting the actual dwelling.
I know, I know. It’s too costly and demands regulations that nobody wants and besides, we just need to Drillbabydrill ourselves out of our problems. Still, it might be nice to save some lives with a new plan. Maybe if we promise it will preserve the pre-lives of more fetuses?
DBrown
@Jennifer: Proven fact is that both the Earth and US are more warm on average now than in the past. Fact – storms use higher temps to gain more energy which creates greater winds and rain. Unless magic ponnies are eating the extra heat, it has to go somewere and it is very accurate to say that, on average, storms are getting stronger as air temps increase and in all likelyhood, some tornados are getting stronger – the heavly season now is far beyond anything recorded the last fifty years. While it is true no single event is caused just by AGW, AGW is making weather worse.
As for killer tornado’s, where in the world are you getting data saying such storms were just as bad or even worse(!) 50 or 75 years ago? Talk about unsupported claims – you are the one trying to make unsupported stuff up.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@wenchacha:
How can you do a 6000 square foot house and Mexican migrant landscaped lot for an exurban family of 4 (headed, of course, by a John Galtian loan broker whos ecredit is stretched tighter than the collagen-injected lips of a wingnut OC housewife) by earth-berms?
Its socialism, I tells ya.
Yevgraf (fka Michael)
@wenchacha:
How can you do a 6000 square foot house and Mexican migrant landscaped lot for an exurban family of 4 (headed, of course, by a John Galtian loan broker whos ecredit is stretched tighter than the collagen-injected lips of a wingnut OC housewife) by earth-berms?
Its social!sm, I tells ya.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
I was going to post something on this yesterday but never got around to it, but yes, something like a tax incentive to build storm cellars would be a great idea. Since tornadoes seem to take dead aim at the most Jesusy states it’s even conceivable that their neanderthal politicians would support something like this. Imagine a southern senator supporting a storm cellar bill because it would save lives and provide jobs in his state. Crazy, I know.
Villago Delenda Est
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
The thing is, I could predict with near certainty that they would oppose any such bill because it interferes with “state’s rights”. As in the right for their cronies to build without regard to contingencies for maximum profit.
4tehlulz
@Shoemaker-Levy 9: You fail at selling. Convince the senator that it’s to protect us from the ChiComs and you get instant support.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
@Villago Delenda Est:
How about this, a program that provides incentives to owners of existing SFDs to retrofit. You know how the single best idea on the energy front would be to weatherize every home in the country? Similar to that. Only problem is, since it’s a great idea and would do nothing but good for the country, that’s why we won’t do it.
gex
@Shoemaker-Levy 9: Next you’ll suggest we check our tire pressure, you fascist!
Villago Delenda Est
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
Also, too, some liberal proposed it, and it’s imperative that we thwart the ideas of the DFHs at all times, at all costs.
These people are seriously into slicing their nose off to spite their own face.
Anoniminous
@ppcli:
Weather over the past 18 months has been consistent with predictions based on acceptance of Global Warming Theory. That’s as good as it gets when you’re dealing with a Complex System.
“Why?” I hear you ask.
“Bifurcation and “Emergence I answer.
There's nothing, particularly, novel about the weather systems we've been seeing over the past 18 months. There's nothing, particularly, unique about any one of the measurements of the various factors, e.g., Gulf of Mexico surface water temperature. It's only when these are put together in a Model containing differential equations and the Rate of Change (with feedback looping, SDIC, & etc.) is calculated that the affect of GW on Climate on Weather begins to become clear.
But it becomes clear only to those people who have some grasp of what is going on. Bifurcation leading to Emergent Behavior doesn't mean the observables are necessarily novel. Physical systems don’t seem to work that way, with some exceptions. Weather, as such, seems to be constrained so we probably won’t see tornadoes packing 750 mph winds – and thank goodness! The prediction is we will consistently experience weather phenomena above historic norm and expectation: we will see more tornadoes overall and a greater number of F5 tornadoes relative to historic averages.
One unfortunate result of this is it is impossible to state, with any degree of certainty, this particular bit of weather phenomena was caused by GW.
It is possible to state with a high degree of certainty the weather experienced over the past 18 months is caused by GW.
But only if the person you’re talking to understands what is going on.
Fallsroad
I live in Oklahoma, in a tiny city called Jenks on the southwest side of Tulsa.
A bit of surreal humor as we waited for death from above on Tuesday, listed as a “high risk” severe weather day by the Storm Prediction Center. The only other high risk day this year was the day Tuscaloosa got hammered.
I called the city of Jenks (we technically live in Jenks, which is essentially southwest Tulsa across the river) and the kind, cheery woman who answered the phone responded to my storm shelter inquiry with this:
She: “The city of Jenks does not have a designated public storm shelter. Usually some area churches will offer shelter to those who live in a house or apartment that does not have an interior room, but we don’t keep a list.”
Me: “So we are on our own?”
She: “Yes. I’m still trying to figure out what to do as I don’t live in Jenks myself.”
Me: “I live in a house that nominally has interior rooms, but based on what they are talking about if things jump off in a big way, we aren’t staying.”
She: “Good luck.”
And she giggled.
She realized how bonkers it is, but apparently many Oklahoma cities that once opened schools and other public buildings as storm shelters no longer do so as a strictly budgetary matter. On the heels of a ten year campaign following the horrorshow of May 3, 1999 to educate people to pay attention when the forecast is for violent weather, to heed storm sirens and to seek public shelter, it’s criminal that this is the current state of affairs. This means in the event of major tornadoes, anyone who lives in a less than rock solid structure (and at 150-250mph+ that’s almost everyone) has nowhere to go, unless they have a purpose built safe room strapped to the concrete foundation of their home with rebar, or a buried storm shelter in the back yard.
Good luck, indeed.
I also called the city of Tulsa (a wee bit larger than Jenks) and the thrust of the conversation was to call back afterwards if a disaster actually happened because then, and only then, would they be opening any public buildings for shelter.
I lived in Norman for years and I know the local middle school was our designated place to flee from storms too big for our house to survive. I don’t know if they still do that there.
To his credit, our former conserva-Dem governor Brad Henry and our often regressive legislature did pass a tax credit bill for anyone buying a pre-fabbed shelter and having it installed in their yard, and a similar credit for a shelter as part of a new home. I’ve been in one of the latter – a poured concrete room off the kitchen with a thick steel door, the entire thing literally tied to the foundation slab by rebar.
They also instituted a program to register the shelters and their exact location so first responders would be able to locate the shelters beneath the rubble.
But, you know, Republicans control the entire state apparatus here now, and they are of the truly paleolithic variety. Localities are also under the budget cutting gun. So there are no funds left for opening public buildings as storm shelters, even though many of them have basements and are of considerably sturdier construction than most houses.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
ok, sure, who is going to argue with storm shelters. and yes the billions spent would be stimulus.
my only problem with the idea, is that fixing the roads in the northeast and industrial mid-west/atlantic, would also do the same thing, and yes, save lives, though not as directly, and therefore, wouldn’t make it through the village, much less the congress.
ideally yeah, we need stimulus, we need infrastructure…if we are gonna pimp one, lets tie it to something that helps people who might vote our way, is that too much to ask?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Fallsroad:
Do lil baby fetuses need better storm shelters than the ones God gave ’em?
Shoemaker-Levy 9
@Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal:
My thought was, since it’s Jehovah-fearing white Bible-Belitin’ Republicans that Allah is slaughtering by the hundreds that maybe, just maybe, a GOP pol or two might get behind the idea. I’ve even written a theme song for the movement that starts like this:
Imagine sane Republicans, it’s easy if you try…
C’mon everybody, flick your bics and sway.
Gretchen
I’d love to have a storm shelter in my basement but haven’t figured out yet how to hire somebody to build one. I live 150 miles from Joplin, MO and after seeing the pictures I’m pretty sure that I don’t want to be in my present basement when something like that comes.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
All I’m coming up with is New Democrats.
Anoniminous
@Fallsroad:
Involved in Emergency Response, as a volunteer, for a long, long, time. I tell you three times: when an emergency happens it’s too late to go running around trying to find where you’re supposed to go. The people who know are too busy doing their jobs to handle telephone calls. In theory, there are supposed to be Public Information people to do that, but I wouldn’t bet my life on it.
If your county has an Emergency Manager go to the office and get a copy of the Emergency Response Plan, read it, and try not to laugh too hard. In the Plan you will find where the emergency shelters are, who decides to open them, under what circumstances the shelters will be open, and who is to run them. For extra credit give a call to the people who are supposed to run them and see if THEY know they are supposed to run them. You’d Be Surprised.
If the county doesn’t have one the state will. It will be even more from Cloud Cuckoo-Land than the county’s … but you have to start somewhere.
Mayflower Madman
there was a study done a few years ago about tornado preparedness and the differences between the north and the south (read:bible belt). there were just as many tornados in illinois as there were in some state down south, can’t remember which. there were far more deaths in the south. up north, people took warnings seriously and headed for shelter. down south, they put their faith in god that he will pull them through. i saw and interview on the weather channel yesterday that reminded me of the study. someone in missouri mentioned how the all started praying out loud.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mayflower Madman:
Never occurs to them that God may be trying to kill ’em, does it?
DPirate
More subsidies? Why is this a good idea?
If you want to protect people against themselves in these areas, mandate storm shelters via zoning ordinances.
Fallsroad
@Anoniminous:
FWIW, I called very early in the day, well before anything jumped off. I didn’t wait until the roof had blown off and the wicked witch was pointing at me and laughing. At the time I called there were no storms active anywhere in the state.
And there was no one else to speak with who would tell me differently. The bottom line is simple (for them) – no public shelters, not here, not Tulsa, and so on. In Norman we knew where the shelter was located and where to go once inside. We actually pay attention to this sort of thing, odd as it may seem.
In any case we already had a plan. My wife works for another small city nearby which used to be a police station and has unused concrete jail cells in the center of the building. Not a public shelter but since it is part of her office she can get in day or night. Plus, unlike the old public shelters and many private ones (churches and the like) we can bring our animal population with us.
But yeah, most places barely have a plan (she writes long range strategic plans for cities and towns and reads everything, including emergency plans, they may already have) for these types of things, even in a place like Oklahoma which gets visited by the tornado fairy multiple times every year.
My point was mainly my surprise that what used to be a given (making public buildings accessible as storm shelters when the hammer is going to fall) is no longer operative in a lot of places.
ETA: The county here is Tulsa county – no shelters for during storms, only in the aftermath of a major disaster. Same is true of the state in our area. There is no publicly administered place to go.