Also too, single people:
Three mornings a week, when Becky Leung gets ready for work, her boyfriend is just getting home from his overnight job. When her mother drops hints about her twin sister’s marriage, she laughs it off. And when she thinks about getting married herself, she worries first about her career.
Leung, 27, cohabits in a Portland, Ore., townhome with her boyfriend but has no plans yet to wed, a reflection of the broader cultural shift in the U.S. away from the traditional definition of what it means to be a household.
Data released Thursday by the U.S. Census Bureau shows married couples have found themselves in a new position: They’re no longer the majority.
The reason conservatives are freaking out about the culture warrior bullshit is because things are changing and there is NOTHING THEY CAN DO ABOUT IT, and it makes them feel impotent and helpless that things aren’t they way they were in their fictionalized conceptualization of what real America is supposed to be like- married, christian, white, two kids and a dog with a picket fence and a station wagon.
Jenny
I blame cats for the break up of the nuclear family.
Yutsano
You made this thread just to bait geg6. Admit it. :)
In all seriousness, the main reason to get married is the tax breaks. That’s it. Otherwise the hell folks make for each other in divorce lasts for years if not decades. I deal with this shit every day at work.
NobodySpecial
That’s truly amazing, given the tremendous pressure of the government to encourage marriage and childbirth via taxation and regulation.
Of course, economic security is more than a tax break. But still, the pressure for marriage is large in this country.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
the only reason i haven’t married my current girlfriend is because gay people are attacking us. well that, and my ex-wife’s divorce attorney, when they attack, they use weapons.
Hunter Gathers
You know what will solve this conundrum? Tax cuts.
Barb (formerly Gex)
The funny part is, in MA, once SSM was legalized, employers could go back to granting benefits to married couples only. A number of hetero couples with domestic partnerships had to marry or lose their benefits.
beltane
Where I live, it is only the young hippies with middle-class parents who get married. The young, Christian, RealAmerican types never, ever, ever get married. They’ll have a kid with someone, buy a house with someone else, leave, have another kid from a new relationship, move back with Dad and step-mom, and on and on and on….But they never get married.
fasteddie9318
Could somebody please tell the austerity and morality conservatives that these people seem not to be getting married BECAUSE THEY’RE TOO FUCKING BUSY TRYING TO WORK EVERY GODDAMN HOUR OF THE DAY SO THEY CAN SCRAPE OUT A FUCKING LIVING? If you make it easier for the non-Industrial Titans among us to make a comfortable existence for themselves without have to live W’s “uniquely American” work-three-jobs-until-you-die lifestyle, more people would probably get married. But hell, getting to scold the poor for their immorality is almost as much fun as making them poor was in the first place, so this is probably a feature and not a bug.
JenJen
And in Mitt Romney’s World, you tie that family dog to the top of the station wagon and take a cross-country road trip!
Just sayin’.
Pangloss
“Waaaaahhh!! Why can’t it be 1957 anymore?”
Barb (formerly Gex)
@beltane: This. My mom’s side of the family is very Catholic. The divorces, the baby mommas, etc. are too numerous to count. Meanwhile the GF and I have been together 12 years. I’ve seen many of my aunts’, uncles’ and cousins’ marriages come and go in that time. I hate buying them wedding gifts.
eemom
this isn’t a new phenom, though. Back in the 60s and early 70s everybody lived together. It was totally uncool to get married.
PhoenixRising
Barb, I used to hate that too–so I stopped. We send a nice card, heavy cream-colored from the paper wholesaler, to acknowledge the happy couple. And a gift in their name to Freedom to Marry. Because I’m not funding my own oppression.
you may not be an asshole, though, so this solution might not fit your needs. Xpedx is the paper shop…
beltane
@fasteddie9318: I don’t think it’s necessarily about poverty. A lot of young people with decent enough jobs are buying houses together but not getting married, which costs a lot less than buying a house. It is a cultural thing that appears to be most prevalent among the more conservative segments of society. The “traditional” values forced upon these people may have understandably made them loathe the very idea of marriage.
beltane
@Barb (formerly Gex): I prefer funerals to weddings but that’s just me.
tbogg
I am married, white, one child, two dogs, kind of pickety-fenced in, and I AM BEING OPPRESSED by these single people and their “hooking up” and “hippity-hop music” and “beer pong” ways.
I demand affirmative action or reparations or possibly a twenty-something leggy supermodel with, shall we say, a certain degree of moral, to say nothing of physical, flexibility.
Spaghetti Lee
I think my extended family is doing it’s part to push the number as high as it is. About 25 married couples and only one divorce.
Anne Laurie
@Yutsano:
No, the most important reason for childless couples is probably health insurance — the Spousal Unit was unemployed & on my company-provided policy for several years, and now I’m unemployed & on his. Getting private insurance would be difficult for him, and probably impossible for me. Keeping kids ensured is even more difficult, which is one reason gay couples with kids are so “whiny” about not being able to cross-insure. The related issue of being able to visit one’s partner is not minor, either.
All that said, I feel I should speak up in favor of marriage — we co-habited for 15 years, moved cross-country, and bought a house before legalizing our union in the eyes of the various governmental entities, and yet the meaningless ceremony & piece of paper did add an intangible burnish to our relationship over the ensuing 18 years. It’s not everybody’s best life, but marriage can still be a winning option!
Spaghetti Lee
@tbogg:
Seconded!
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@beltane:
one less asshole drinking all the beer?
The Dangerman
@Yutsano:
So, you’re saying that the Republican proposal for a flat tax is anti-Marriage?
JonF
As Jon Stewart said, conservatives are nostalgic for a past that never actually existed.
Tom Levenson
@beltane: FWIW, my now-wife, then GF and I used to joke that we were married by the registrar of deeds long before the Rabbi and the Commonwealth got into the act.
We did later marry, for reasons wholly fine for us. But it was hardly the marriage that represented our choice to create a committed partnership.
eemom
@tbogg:
what, you ain’t got tons of FDL groupies hurling themselves at you 24/7? SOME of them must be leggy and flexible.
khead
We shacked up – yeah, I said shacked up – for 8 years before tying the knot.
At the end I think I was just putting it off to see how much fun I could have answering the question “So, when are you two tying the knot?”
eemom
marriage = “state certified fucking license”.
Stoled that from an old friend.
Ash Can
I’m a happily hetero-married stay-at-home mom. Let me know when I need to start panicking over all teh gheys and sinful co-habitationalismists.
jafd
Note to fasteddie9318
Commonplace saying in Pennsylvania, waybackwhen: “Marriage is like the Tariff – a way to Protect the Domestic Enterprise, and Encourage the Infant Industry.”
rob!
My gf and I have been living together for over 7 years. We enjoy bringing down America’s family values, bit by bit.
Martin
They’re in it with the aliens. They’re building landing strips for gay Martians. I swear to God.
Anne Laurie
@khead: Yeah, we told our friends (some of whom are christians)that getting married was our last chance at shocking them speechless. And when we made the announcement at the big annual Thanksgiving bloat, one guy piped up ‘Does that mean she’s pregnant?’… followed immediately by noises of said guy being forcibly silenced…
Sko Hayes
As someone in their 50s who has never been married, I can say with certainty, being single is all it’s cracked up to be. Unfortunately, I’m living in Kansas now , so my dating life has gone down the tubes, but I can live with that.
Emma
Tbogg: and the lovely leggy Mrs. Tbogg will sic the bassets on you and where will you be once Wembley gets hold of you? Uh? Uh?
Tara the antisocial social worker
You left off a digit.
Fixed.
By the way, why does the dog have a station wagon?
Chuck Butcher
Since I’m still married at 20+ years and now 58; I don’t think I’d do it again if something happened to this marriage. It looks as though we’ve gotten to the “death do us part” piece.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@PhoenixRising: I hear you. I’d love to let my asshole flag fly in this situation. But out of respect for my Mom, I don’t. I have adopted a policy of purchasing a gift on the first marriage as a compromise.
The Dangerman
@eemom:
Number 1 reason to get married? To have sex on a regular basis.
Number 1 reason to get divorced? To have sex on a regular basis.
BGinCHI
@tbogg: Stay off my fucking lawn, tbogg.
It’s all I’ve got.
Tom Levenson
@Anne Laurie:
Hee hee hee.
@Anne Laurie: Also too second this. Being married works for my spouse and me. So did being unmarried when we were doing it. Don’t need scumsuckers telling me which I should be doing; quite capable of figuring that out on my own, thank you very fucking much.
Mike G
@Tara the antisocial social worker:
their fictionalized conceptualization of what real America is supposed to be like- married, christian, white, twenty kids and a dog
with a picket fence and atied to the roof of the station wagon.Romney family values – procreation and animal abuse.
BGinCHI
Wrong thread.
Edited for embarrassment.
Phoebe
People like me, who were married for a year and a half, and there are tons of us, are what’s cheapening the currency of marriage. I think of marriage now the same way I think of tattoos with your beloved’s name, that is, a sort of sweet, pathetic attempt at making something permanent when nothing is (except certain diseases).
I can see why people used to get cold feet on the wedding day, and imagine that it’s what I felt like poised at the edge of the diving board for about 15 minutes when I was 9. Once you jump, you can’t go back. But this is not exactly true of marriage, it’s just a stupid pain in the ass for everyone if you do, and if you have kids, even more so. Having kids is the REAL plunge.
ferd of the nort
In Canada, shack up for 6 months and you are “Common-law”.
Legally responsible equivalent to marriage without the paperwork. No difference in tax benefits, nothing.
Six months and you ARE hitched.
Blue Gal
A vote for marriage. Driftglass and I are each about to launch into our second marriages (to each other), and couldn’t be happier.
For the younguns, I do think economics has a lot to do with it. People don’t think about marriage without a stable roof of their own over their head. Too many people under 30 can barely afford their car insurance and cell phone bill.
bryanD
“The reason conservatives are freaking out about the culture warrior bullshit is…”
Earth to John Cole: what was once legendarily The Great Popular Culture War ended with the Goode Protestants checking out of it in the late-1980s. Since then, an axis of professional media conservatives of the (mostly) Zionist-Jewish and pre-Vatican II Catholic disposition—probably mostly gay or “?”—bleet over teevee and radio about “the children!” It’s virtually high satire!
(Did you know that Nazi-Vaticon Bill Donohue of the Catholic League is now busy defending “our gay priests”? This can only happen in a world with no real “culture war” as you imagine it.)
eemom
@The Dangerman:
heh. One of the funniest routines I’ve ever seen is Richard Pryor’s “I don’t want to fuck YOU NO MORE” riff about marriage.
Tom Levenson
@bryanD: Not actually a big deal in the Neo Con Jewish side of things.
Also — FWIW: maybe I’m being overly sphincter-constricted, but Zionist-Jewish has an unlovely edge to my ears. Jewish would be fine, in this context (though as noted, I think you are incorrect). Zionist-Jewish conflates the political with religion and ethnicity, a rhetorical move which has much sorrow running in its past. Neo Con covers the political side of your argument just fine; Zionism has, in fact, nothing to do with it.
eemom
@ferd of the nort:
there are some US states that recognize common law marriage, but I don’t think it is treated exactly the same as “statutory” marriage.
One of the most boring areas of law there is, that domestic relations stuff. Interesting facts, but boring law.
PurpleGirl
@ferd of the nort: “Common law” marriages are not recognized in all states. In those states that do, you actually have to be putting yourself (and mate) forward as being married. Living together doesn’t do it.
ETA: There’s state-level law on the subject, basically pertaining to support after a couple splits and/or custody of children.
Barb (formerly Gex)
@Blue Gal: Heck. So many of them are living with their parents. And they have obscene student loans to pay off. Which is going to be just so easy to do in this job market. GOP economic policies are the most effective anti-family program the government could implement.
Roger Moore
@Anne Laurie:
I think there’s something to be said for getting the whole shebang in one package. Instead of having to decide how much hassle you’re willing to go through to get one specific benefit, you get all of them in one fell swoop.
jl
I R economist, so will argue that there is an economic component.
My argument starts with the well known fact that in the US does not make things anymore, it makes deals. Short term deals.
Unless you are a gigantic corporation with lots of cash and guaranteed credit lines,anyone who makes long range plans and commitments is a sucker, and will get taken to the cleaners. You will become a money farm for rich and powerful swindlers. The return on investment for long range project for the lesser person is bad, because once you get any revenue, a rich dude will find a way to box you in, farm you for cash, and make sure your long range investment is bad.
So fewer people want to own a home versus rent, marry versus hang loose with a significant other, produce kids outside marriage where there are options for getting financial support for the kids, invest in long run specialized education.
But, even though I R economists, I think there is more to it than economics, but our current corporate serf culture contributes something.
Tom Levenson
@Blue Gal: Congratulations!
Can’t resist the Mencken line though:
“Second marriages are the triumph of hope over experience.”
Actually, I think experience helps…there is a reason I was a month shy of 39 when I finally did get married.
JS
If they wanted to preserve the traditional family, they should have backed policies for the last 30 years that didn’t force moms into the workforce because one salary just wasn’t cutting it like it used to.
khead
@Anne Laurie:
I think my wife’s family was just glad someone took her – she’s a handful. It’s the only explanation I have cause I feel like they cut me a break for a bunch of Philly folks. The ball busting actually stopped after a while.
My Dad, old school Baptist that he is, expressed what I would call “silent disappointment” but was otherwise cool with it.
My wife and I just celebrated 18 years together back at Easter, so the latest heathenism ain’t our fault.
jl
@jl:
Correction. I meant to type:
“So fewer people want to own a home versus rent, marry versus hang loose with a significant other, produce kids INside marriage where there are FEWER options for getting financial support for the kids (than outside marriage), invest in long run specialized education.”
To amplify: even though there are tax breaks that encourage home ownership and marriage, they are countered by economic trends. How attractive is a tax break for mortgage interest when you are afraid to buy a house because housing prices are unpredictable, may fall substantially and suddenly due to lots of factors outside your control and your estimate of the value of the location, and you may find yourself 10% to 25% underwater on your mortgage?
Roger Moore
@jl:
If UR economist, perhaps you can explain why you’re basing your argument on a “well known fact” that isn’t true. The US not only makes things, it is the world leader in making things. We don’t hire as many people to make things as we used to, but we’re making more stuff than ever.
BGinCHI
@Tom Levenson: You mean Samuel Johnson, shirley.
Tom Levenson
@BGinCHI: Damn. You’re right.
I hate that.
It should have been Mencken.
BGinCHI
@Tom Levenson: I blame unidirectional time.
pika
@JonF: And fearful of changes that, as one wise person said to me long ago, that have already occurred.
MazeDancer
While number of married couples is declining, perhaps number of weddings is not.
These destination, gillion dollar, pretend you’re filming your own reality series or that you’re royalty for a weekend weddings seem to abound. The wedding biz is gigantic. And the number of couples who’d rather have a down payment on a house than an extravaganza seem few.
Though those statistics in the post seem to indicate spending obscene amounts of money on your wedding does not prevent having to spend even more on your divorce.
jl
@Roger Moore: What I meant was that the value of production of the manufacturing as a percent of US GDP went from around 22 percent in 1980 to around 12 percent now.
And I thought I was the champion overly literal nerd around here.
Lurker
@Tara the antisocial social worker:
Because the Griffins won’t trust Stewie with the keys.
Tehanu
@JS:
Hear hear. My dad taught elementary school and my mom stayed home and raised 4 kids on his salary, 3 of whom went to college. Nobody teaching school nowadays — or doing any other necessary but non-master-of-the-universe job — can afford to let the other spouse stay home even with just one kid, unless they don’t mind eating out of dumpsters.
PurpleGirl
I’ve never been married. I currently have a significant other who lives on the other side of the country. We’ve talked about his moving to NY to live with me. But I don’t see us getting married — at this point it’s better for us if we both get our Social Security as singles on our own records.
ruemara
I wanted to get married, since I’ve been with the same person for the past 17 years. Who the fuck can afford it? Who the fuck can afford the party, the legal fees, the license change, the aquisition of another person’s debt? He’s been unemp now for 3 years and counting and I haven’t earned even 20k a year since 2000. Fuck marriage and fuck conservatives, they’ve goddamnwell ruined my life.
Amanda in the South Bay
Also…its OR, not Ore. No one form Oregon would ever abbreviate Oregon as Ore. Didn’t want to let this travesty slide.
Amanda the native Oregonian.
prufrock
@tbogg:
With the exception of being twenty something, doesn’t that already describe Mrs. Tbogg? As for the moral flexibility, well she did marry you.
Sly
2011 Conservative: We need to go back to the 1980s!
1981 Conservative: We need to go back to the 1950s!
1951 Conservative: We need to go back to the 1920s!
1921 Conservative: We need to go back to the 1890s!
1891 Conservative: We need to go back to the 1850s!
1851 Conservative: We need to go back to the 1820s!
1821 Conservative: We need to go back to the 1780s!
1781 Conservative: God save the King!
the Bejaysus
This is a timely post. I’ll be getting married a week from today. The soon to be wife and I had a son together three years ago. He had some health complications and was in and out of the hospital the first six months of his life and about 8 months later I was let go from my job. Since we weren’t married he qualified for medicaid. That was a huge comfort. The stress involved with being out of work was off the charts and this provided at least some stability. I bounced around to a couple different jobs before landing the one I have currently and feeling like it should be somewhat stable(as stable as this sluggish recovery can be). As of next week we’ll all be on my kinda lousy company insurance.
After reading many of the comments I thought of Rick Pearlstein’s write up on Hubert Humphrey yesterday and how we could sure use more New-Deal dems these days. His write up was interesting. More discussion on the split between New Dealers and New Politics in the 60’s and 70’s would be cool.
the Bejaysus
1781 Conservative: God save the King!
I was watching Shields and Brooks the day the royal kids got married and if fuckin Bobo didn’t pause when America’s break from England was mentioned, as though it was a silly mistake.
Walker
In my case, marriage was key for the wife’s green card and eventual citizenship (which was just this July). She has a PhD in computer science, and could have probably got a visa eventually. But marriage guaranteed full citizenship in three years.
grandpajohn
@Roger Moore:
Which is what I did except different package . I married at age 35, got a wife, 2 daughters 39 years later still have the same plus 4 granddaughters and 1 great grandson and would do it all over again
grandpajohn
@Tom Levenson: I WAS 35 when I married and have been on that same marriage for 39 years. benefits of said marriage include 2 daughter who came with the wife, 4 granddaughters, 1 great-grandson
Mark S.
Since my family has been acting like a bunch of fucking assholes lately, my girlfriend actually told me she doesn’t want to get married because of them. I don’t blame her: they are a bunch of dipshits. How did I turn out so fucking nice?
Yutsano
@Anne Laurie: Blindness of my professional milieu. I tend to only deal with health insurance matters tangentally if at all. But Lord do I get to witness what divorcees do to each other. It ain’t pretty.
Barb (formerly Gex)
So basically what I gather is that straight people don’t give a damn about marriage beyond the tax benefits it gives them. Hell, we gays can’t ruin the institution any more than straight people have if that’s all it boils down to nowadays.
Anne Laurie
@Yutsano: Someday, sweetie, I hope to have the opportunity to send you a nice wedding gift… complete with reminder of your earlier comment :}
Yutsano
@Anne Laurie: I can promise you this much: if that ever does happen (and that’s a bigger if than you realize) it will not be to an American. Federal health bennies are awesome and all, but I’m all about getting me some sociallist health care by hook or by crook. The fact that I have a career plan that will let me work just about anywhere in the world is gravy. No matter what though it will be here as any excuse to get to Vancouver is a good one.
Incidentally, I have eaten crow before, even on this very blog. So you may yet still get your wish.
Thymezone
What a joke. Show me one dog with a station wagon.
Cheap jim
@Thymezone: And what’s a dog going do with a picket fence that a tree or fire plug won’t do for, anyway?