I shouldn’t be amazed by this but I am. Bobo concludes that the Syrian government must be overthrown because they torture. Yet he said nothing when the Bush administration he supported shipped a Canadian citizen off to Syria to be tortured.
I find torture appalling. That’s why I, unlike Bobo, oppose its use by my own government.
Then again, I am not a sociopath.
burnspbesq
I think you need a new thesaurus.
“Idiot” and “sociopath” are not synonyms.
trex
If only this were like one of the old Star Trek episodes where by simply making him aware of his own internal contradictions he would short circuit and self-destruct.
Doug Harlan J
@burnspbesq:
I don’t think Bobo is an idiot. I don’t. I think he is a sociopath.
Mark Halperin, Paul Ryan…I’m not sure which they are, but it’s one of the other. I am careful with my usage.
burnspbesq
@Doug Harlan J:
We may have to agree to disagree on this one. I think Brooks genuinely doesn’t perceive the inconsistencies in his positions. Which is quite remarkable.
It would be interesting to ask him if he knows who Maher Arar is. I would bet a car payment that if he ever knew, he has long since forgotten.
Spaghetti Lee
I’m with burns on this one. Sociopathy requires charm and wit, which Bobo has as much of as a hunk of driftwood.
burnspbesq
Pause for a moment, and consider the fact that we are debating whether a highly respected columnist for a major newspaper is an idiot or a sociopath.
Then make mine a double. Rocks, no water. And keep ’em coming. I should like to be unconscious, stat.
Warren Terra
Also, the treatment of Arar in our courts (which ruled, in effect, that he could not sue the US government for sending him to be tortured because the disclosure of information that we sent him to be tortured would cause embarrassment to our government) has been a national disgrace.
Djur
Bobo is, in the words of Gene Ray, “educated stupid”. He’s at least theoretically intelligent, but he’s operating from a deranged set of axioms.
Mark Halperin is a drooling idiot operating from a deranged set of axioms.
PeakVT
Just going by what he writes, I think the best description of Brooks is apologist. He’s not the source the craziest ideas; he’s polishing whatever turds Republican politicians are putting out.
kdaug
@Doug Harlan J:
I think he is an aggrandized, self-centered, smug, arrogant, self-righteous elitist who believes any pronouncement from his foie-gras-encrusted maw to be the deliverance from high heaven.
I think, also, too, he truly does not understand how stupid he is.
Annnnnd – that’s the key. The core of the problem with elites. Not that they’re all stupid – they ain’t – but that membership to the club precludes meritocratic evaluation.
There are a shitload of really rich dumbasses out there.
Paris Hilton/Kardashian Klones/Real Housewives of XYZ, anyone?
Common denominator? None of them earned the fucking money.
Djur
@kdaug: So what you’re saying is that our society has institutionalized the Dunning-Kruger effect.
God have mercy.
Jenny
Speaking of torture, would you stop torturing readers by bring up Bobo.
kdaug
@kdaug: Oh, and just so I don’t come across as sexist, let’s add:
George H. W. Bush
George W. Bush
Willard “Mitt” Romney
Donald Trump
…ad nauseum.
To paraphrase the Prophet Molly Ivans – “They were born on third base and think they hit a triple.”
kdaug
@Djur: Deeper than that – inherited wealth. Mixed with a little stupidity and a splash of ego, it can bring the whole fucker down.
Warren Terra
@kdaug:
Jim Hightower, I think, not Molly.
cthulhu
I have to say that I find this contradiction disturbing and all too common. The fact is that the human brain isn’t particularly rational on average and is very capable of holding quite discordant beliefs without any cognitive or emotional turmoil (and saying this as a psychologist). This doesn’t make Brooks either a sociopath or an idiot, just like a lot of people. But I think it does speak to the notion that the intelligentsia are not nearly so consistent (rational) as they believe themselves to be.
Suffern ACE
Oh, I don’t think Bobo is a sociopath. He is way too paranoid for that. He knows that there is something wrong, he just goes through great pains to make certain that the elites like himself who cause these problems are never blamed for them. Look at his message to graduating college seniors this week. “The job market sucks. You’ve got slim prospects. And you know who’s to blame? Your parents for raising you wrong who took out a loan to put a roof over your head. That’s right. Don’t get bitter. Blame your parents.”
Or the previous one: “If only our political culture weren’t broken, unlike the marvelous British system. You know why it’s broken? Cable news and talk radio, that you as readers of the Times don’t watch or listen to and where I seldom appear. Don’t blame the muck mucks at the Times or the frickin’ political parties, or the influence of money in creating conflicting political interests. Nope. Must be those other things.”
I think he’s too concerned that someone might finger him in the lineup. No mental disorder. He’s right to be afraid.
kdaug
@Warren Terra: Could be. Get my TexDems mixed up from time to time.
ETA: Looked it up – it was Ann Richards.
She of “Poor George. It ain’t his fault. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth”. And yes, that sound you hear in the background is me snickering.
Damn, any rattlesnake’ll hurt a man, but those female ones will lay your ass asunder.
kdaug
@cthulhu:
Now throw in a lifelong stipend and an inflated sense of self-worth.
Cliff in NH
Way OT, but watching rerun of hardball got me thinking, does anyone know exactly how many US Governors have Quit their job?
Why is she called Governor if she QUIT?
kdaug
OK, since none of y’all are speaking up, and I mixed up the authorship of my previous quote, I bring you the following from Ms. Ivans:
Cliff in NH
here is a snippity snip from a random website that fits my definition of sociopath quite well… (I don’t agree with everything on the site, or that it all applies to Bobo)
…………………………..
Profile of the Sociopath:
Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as “their right.”
Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
Incapacity for Love
Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others’ feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others’ lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
..sniped irrelevant bits..
AT
The only idiot here is Doug, he thinke the mighty US “of God Blessed” A tortured people, everyone knows that’s not true.
Villago Delenda Est
@kdaug:
One of the reasons that Thomas Jefferson considered the institution of an estate tax to be one of his great achievements.
To force the children of the rich to earn their own fortune, not get it handed to them by their parents.
Cliff in NH
@Djur:
That sounds better than Sociopath at least, it certainly is the Nicest way to look at the decisions made by lots of politicians/news corpses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. Actual competence may weaken self-confidence, as competent individuals may falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning conclude, “the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others” (p. 1127).[2]
The effect is about paradoxical defects in cognitive ability, in oneself and others.
James E. Powell
But, but you don’t understand! It wasn’t torture, it was more like fraternity hazing. And the guys we did not torture were Teh Terrists! And the constitution is not a suicide pact. And what if there was a bomb? And your own family. And 9/11!
Cliff in NH
@AT:
WTF?
Warren Terra
@kdaug:
Anyone who claims to be a Democrat and hasn’t read Ivins’s first two books of collected essays has only themselves to blame.
If anyone reading this is such a person, you can get the both of them for little more than $7 from used bookstores online.
wasabi gasp
Use your torture for good, not evil.
kdaug
@Warren Terra: Seconded. Quick reads, too.
Comrade Kevin
How does someone quote a lengthy part of an article by Molly Ivins and refer to her as “Ivans” in the comment with the quote?
Comrade Kevin
@Warren Terra: I have autographed copies of both of her first two books, they’re fucking awesome. Meeting her was awesome. Her Camille Paglia article is worth the price of the second book all on its own.
kdaug
@Comrade Kevin: Watch your keyboard, chief. I’m waiting for your next typo.
(And BTW, I misspelled it twice in two separate posts. Pay attention, jackass.)
Comrade Kevin
@kdaug:
It’s only a typo if you do it once.
kdaug
Molly The Terrible rings true to my mind.
ChrisNYC
Wow, that column is something. Not a lot to do with torture. Less to do with the 13 year old whose mutilation and death it exploits. Quite a lot to do with Israel.
I vote sociopath.
R-Jud
@Warren Terra: I have read them, but you’ve just given me a great birthday gift idea for my Mom.
Thanks.
alwhite
@Warren Terra:
It may be one of those country sayings, but I know I heard Molly say it about Boy George. Ann Richards said about W’s daddy “Poor George, he was born with a silver foot in his mouth.” in ’92. It might have been applied to his idiot son except the boy couldn’t form enough coherent sentences to make a gaffe.
alwhite
@Cliff in NH:
Excluding those that did it because of scandal or crime that would be ONE Governor that has ever quit the job.
She is, truly, in a class by herself.
IIRC there are 3 others but they got caught with their pants down or their hand in the cookie jar.
alwhite
@Doug Harlan J: @burnspbesq:
idiot / sociopath
.
WAIT! You’re both right! Bobo is two, two mints in one!
This is like the “Is FAUX News stupid or liars?” argument. Who cares? the damage they do is the same either way and they are not capable of change when their inaccuracies are pointed out. At some point it is just wasting time trying to make sense of them.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
But the Syrians are brown.
@burnspbesq: I’ll have what he’s having.
cleek
NPR reports on the Syrian torture story without even alluding to the US’s record on the subject.
good journalists know better than to equate the US with Syria! Syria’s bad. we’re exceptional.
Chris
@James E. Powell:
I loved the endless, endless backsliding between “oh come on, this isn’t torture” and “oh come on, wouldn’t you torture if it was for a higher purpose?”
WereBear
Amazingly enough, someone can be deeply narcissist, clueless, and mean, and have a very similar effect.
jwb
I think Bobo is primarily a shill, selling his soul writing skills to the highest bidder. I don’t think he believes a word of what he writes or bloviates from the TV. He simply writes and speaks from the role of “conservative NY Times opinion writer.” I also think he recognizes the damage that he is doing, but, because he plays the role rather than inhabits it, he can’t actually express his own opinion, which means that he is always only reactive—that’s why he can’t actually work to change the field of conservative opinion. So that would make him a sociopath. And the fact that his opinion is always reactive and never thought through to the point that he owns it makes his writing both shallow and idiotic. I completely avoid the guy these days, whether on TV or in print, because he’s worse than useless.
arguingwithsignposts
@jwb: Wow. You have way more empathy for Brooks than I do. Having waded through his shite column on college graduates the other day, and seen enough excerpts from his recent book, i do think he believes every damn thing he writes, which puts me on Team Sociopath.
Ghanima Atreides
@Suffern ACE: nah, he is just a liar.
The old under-the-table shaitan bargain the US had with Assad was we wont try to destabilize you as long as your border with Israel is quiet. Now Bashar has lost control of the border because of the Arab Spring.
It is Mubarak redux with the minor difference that we didn’t give aid to Bashar.
We sold our american soul to Assad and Mubarak for Israel.
And we sold our soul to the Saud princes for cheap oil.
Bobo knows this. He just wants to occlude America’s embarrassing history in the ME.
nostalgie de la suzeranité i guess.
Being conservative means never having to say you’re sorry.
Bulworth
You can’t make this stuff up.
It’s as if a political party campaigned against Medicare cuts and then after assuming office, passed legislation to get rid of Medicare.
joeyess
I left this for Bobo:
It’s currently waiting in moderation, of course.
4jkb4ia
I didn’t read Bobo’s column, but I would guess that Bobo had to respond because that poor 13-year-old kid is the Syrian equivalent of Abu Ghraib. Assad has no legitimacy after that.
ETA: Yes, that kid was the first paragraph. But the key sentence was–
4jkb4ia
Aish brought to St. Louis Judy Feld Carr, who has saved at least hundreds of Jews from Syria. This was in early 2009, and she made the same point–the Obama administration cannot be mistaken about the nature of this regime. She didn’t mention Khadr either, but her experiences were more powerful for the audience to hear.
4jkb4ia
@kdaug:
Great story.
@Cliff in NH:
I didn’t think of Rosamond Vincy as a sociopath, but as a description of her that is about perfect.
ETA: I have read skdadl passionately discussing Arar all these years, and I still remembered it wrong.
Nutella
@alwhite:
A total of three governors in the last 100 years quit. All the others either finished their terms, left for higher public office, or died.
The three are all recent: Two who left due to sex scandals (Spitzer and whats-his-name from NJ) and Palin.
Yes, she is in a lazy, irresponsible class all by herself.
Roy G
To further the irony, Israel actually prefers to deal with the Assads and Mubaraks of the Middle East, because they can be bought off.
I’d love to see the inevitable picture of Brooks gladhanding with Assad or Ghadafi. He is a courtier, who will suck off whomever is in power, until he senses the wind changing.
Stefan
In any case, their efforts were doomed. In fact, the current peace process is doomed because of the inability to make a categorical distinction.
Oh, fuck me.
There are some countries in the region that are not nice, but they are normal — Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia. But there are other governments that are fundamentally depraved. Either as a matter of thuggishness (Syria) or ideology (Hamas), they reject the full humanity of other human beings.
What the fuck? Saudi Arabia is “normal”? Saudi Arabia, the apartheid state that denies the full humanity of women, fully half of its citizens, and doesn’t even let them out in public uncovered?
They believe it is proper and right to kill innocents.
Believe me, if Saudi Arabia’s population of indentured imported slave labor ever got a mite frisky the Saudis would piously intone how right and proper it was to kill them.
They can never be part of a successful negotiation because they undermine the universal principles of morality.
What the fuck? Successful negotiations aren’t based on “universal principles of morality”, they’re based on selfish self-interest. You and the other guy both get a piece of what you want and give up a piece of what you want.
Also, too, you don’t make peace with your friends. You make peace with your enemies.
It doesn’t matter how great a law professor or diplomat you are. It doesn’t matter how masterly you sequence the negotiations or what magical lines you draw on a map. There won’t be peace so long as depraved regimes are part of the picture.
Which is why, for example, the Korean War still rages on after 60 years, because it was impossible to make peace with the depraved regime of North Korea. This is also why there were no successful peace agreements ending the Iran-Iraq War, the Sudanese conflict, the Yugoslav wars of the 90s, etc.
Stefan
Pause for a moment, and consider the fact that we are debating whether a highly respected columnist for a major newspaper is an idiot or a sociopath.
I reject the premise that Brooks is “highly respected”…
Tim Connor
The only thing you need to know about Bobo, and most Republican pundits, is that they are coin-operated.
After all, Galtian theology says that, if you have enough money to pay them off, your point of view MUST be a good one.
The topic doesn’t really matter at all.