What’s in a name? A lot, the National Republican Congressional Committee obviously believes. Last week, the committee sent a letter demanding that a TV station stop running an ad declaring that the House Republican budget plan would “end Medicare.” This, the letter insisted, was a false claim: the plan would simply install a “new, sustainable version of Medicare.”
But Comcast, the station’s owner, rejected the demand — and rightly so. For Republicans are indeed seeking to dismantle Medicare as we know it, replacing it with a much worse program.
I’m seeing many attempts to shout down anyone making this obvious point, and not just from Republican politicians. For some reason, many commentators seem to believe that accurately describing what the G.O.P. is actually proposing amounts to demagoguery. But there’s nothing demagogic about telling the truth.
Start with the claim that the G.O.P. plan simply reforms Medicare rather than ending it. I’ll just quote the blogger Duncan Black, who summarizes this as saying that “when we replace the Marines with a pizza, we’ll call the pizza the Marines.” The point is that you can name the new program Medicare, but it’s an entirely different program — call it Vouchercare — that would offer nothing like the coverage that the elderly now receive. (Republicans get huffy when you call their plan a voucher scheme, but that’s exactly what it is.)
Medicare is a government-run insurance system that directly pays health-care providers. Vouchercare would cut checks to insurance companies instead. Specifically, the program would pay a fixed amount toward private health insurance — higher for the poor, lower for the rich, but not varying at all with the actual level of premiums. If you couldn’t afford a policy adequate for your needs, even with the voucher, that would be your problem.
And most seniors wouldn’t be able to afford adequate coverage. A Congressional Budget Office analysis found that to get coverage equivalent to what they have now, older Americans would have to pay vastly more out of pocket under the Paul Ryan plan than they would if Medicare as we know it was preserved. Based on the budget office estimates, the typical senior would end up paying around $6,000 more out of pocket in the plan’s first year of operation.
It’s just depressing that Krugman has to go out and correct the nonsense of all the morons who appear on the Sunday shows and who pollute out discourse, and even more so when you consider they outnumber him about 1000 to 1.
John Puma
Depressing? Why?
We know he’ll correct the nonsense, if allowed to appear. He can handle 10,000 to one
It would be depressing if the nonsense out numbered the sense 1000 to ZERO.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@John Puma:
It’s depressing in that it doesn’t matter. He’s talking into the wind at this rate, because he doesn’t have any support from people with actual clout to do jack shit. Our political discourse has fully drunk the austerity juice. Even if it bites people in the ass electorally, it’s gonna be enshrined and hooked in once it comes to pass.
Villago Delenda Est
This crap will not stop until the Village has been destroyed.
Period. Full stop. The only way.
The Village must be destroyed.
iriedc
Krugman is pointing out that Vouchercare is a glorified coupon program? Shame he’s so, um, shrill.
arguingwithsignposts
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
To be fair, Nancy Smash does seem to agree with Kthug.
WereBear
Well, telling the truth makes them look bad, so it’s NOT FAIR!
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: You would have to change your ‘nym at that point, wouldn’t you?
artem1s
Vouchercare is too positive IMHO. they should be referring to it as Medical Rationing Coupons while the GOP is trying to channel Hoover.
Violet
I wonder how long they’ll allow him to keep that NYT blog? He’s so shrill it’s upsetting the Villagers. Even the totebaggers might be getting alarmed.
David Fud
@Villago Delenda Est: Maybe we need to apply their logic to saving the Village instead: to save the Village, we must destroy the Village. The beatings will continue in the Village until Village morale improves.
Too bad all of their arguments don’t apply to the Villagers before the apply to us. It would stop a lot of crapping on the rest of us.
Violet
@artem1s:
Agreed. And lots of side-by-side comparison charts of “This is your Medical Rationing Coupon of $6,000 and This is how much health insurance costs at your age.” Truth hurts.
JCT
@artem1s
While I basically agree that more details are needed, I think the Dems should run with “VoucherCare” — It will resonate and fits on a bumpersticker.
Not to mention the vision of the wingnuts’ heads exploding.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@arguingwithsignposts:
God Bless Her for that. Unfortunately, she has about a third of the Dems in the House reflexively voting against anything she wants because, you know, raging San Francisco Liberal that’s the source of all the ills of America and the Democrats, blah blah.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes, and I’d be happy to retire it.
Once it’s done.
My great regret is that Broder will not get the tumbrel ride he so richly deserved.
Disgruntled Lurker
God I love me some K-Thug.
opal
All this hurly-burly is upsetting Mika Brzezinski.
It’s time to move on.
PurpleGirl
@opal: Then that’s reason enough to continue it. She deserves to be upset, and often. She’s a self-important, privileged twit.
Brian R.
On a related note, I just made the mistake of turning on MSNBC to see some right-wing radio host lecturing everyone else about how Sarah Palin had it right about Paul Revere, that he did warn the British not to take our guns away, etc. etc., and that it was only the elitist media who disagreed. Mind-numbingly stupid.
Palin could say the sky is green, and her mouthbreathing followers would insist that everyone but the elitist liberals knows that’s true.
Tim, Interrupted
Can someone tell me again why Krugman is not, and was not asked to be, a member of the Obama Administration economic team?
Thank you.
Just Some Fuckhead
I think they screwed up by making the cutoff 55 and under. Old people fucking love coupons. I bet we could make a killing with one of those “entertainment” books geared towards medical procedures.
Buy One Kidney, Get One Dialysis Free
Half Off Hip Replacement
Cataract Removal, Pay For Two Eyes, Get the Third Free
chopper
@artem1s:
I’d really like to see dem ads about rationing care done up all hell of 1984 style. all ‘we’ve raised the elderly care ration etc etc’ while actually cutting coverage.
Redshift
If what I read elsewhere is correct, one of the reasons Comcast laughed off the GOP letter is that it insisted that their budget plan made no changes at all to Medicare. If true, it does make me worry that a less insane demand might actually be successful.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tim, Interrupted:
Not a team player with Goldman-Sachs Ferengi assholes.
Villago Delenda Est
@Just Some Fuckhead:
This offer not good downwind from a nuclear meldown or in a fallout area. Other restrictions may apply.
Davis X. Machina
@Tim, Interrupted:
He doesn’t want the job, and has said so, time without number.
He worked in the Reagan White House, so if he says’ he’s no good at that sort of gig, he knows.
David Hunt
@chopper: @chopper:
I’m starting to worry that we’ll be getting non-satirical ads like that in about 10 years.
Tim, Interrupted
@Villago Delenda Est:
Thank you. Kinda what I have surmised, but didn’t want to be so impolite as to say it out loud again.
Now, can someone tell me again why Obama has Goldman-Sachs Ferengi Assholes on his economic team, and how that ties in with Yes We Can?
Thank you.
Chris
@Brian R.:
Oh for FUCK’s sake.
I only saw a short clip. It looked to me like she probably just misspoke, though she did look completely high when she was talking, and was babbling incoherently as usual.
They could’ve simply gone for the “it was a slip of the tongue, for God’s sake, don’t be a dick about it” line. But no, they actually feel the need to build up all of her misstatements into something profound that she totally meant to say.
TG Chicago
Deep thought: Perhaps the Democrats should have called the PPACA “Medicare”. That way, when Republicans tried to kill it, Dems could say “They’re trying to kill Medicare!”.
Heck, they should do it for everything they want to get through. Environmental regulations? Call them Medicare and make Republicans vote against it. Ending DOMA? Medicare. Pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan? That’s totally Medicare.
It’s ridiculous, but by NRCC/Politifact logic, it would be fair.
Tim, Interrupted
@Davis X. Machina:
Link please?
I note that you did not say that he was ASKED. Because you know, I wonder if someone might change their tune if they were actually ASKED? Hmmm….
Violet
Here’s a suggestion for a journalist. Go research how much it would cost to get health insurance for your mom, dad or another older relative who is currently on Medicare. Be sure to pick someone with at least one pre-existing condition, but nothing too major like a cancer diagnosis or MS. Subtract out the GOPVoucher and see how much it will actually cost your relative. Then publish your findings.
Even better, rinse, lather, repeat for every state in the country, and every large metropolitan area. Give us some real numbers.
Tim, Interrupted
@Violet:
That would be rude.
Morbo
And to make matters worse, Dean Baker is going on vacation.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tim, Interrupted:
I believe Davis X provided one in an edit.
BDeevDad
I don’t get why Republicans are so upset when you say their plan is basically vouchers. That’s what they want for school funding. If it’s good enough for our kids, why isn’t it good enough for our elderly?
jwb
@Violet: At this point Krugman is bigger than the NY Times—they need him more than he needs them. His blog is a close second to the Caucus in generating traffic to the Times website. Considering he is one guy (and this isn’t even his day job) and the Caucus is written by the entire political reporting staff of the Times, that says something.
Poopyman
@Chris:
I saw it without the sound. You get a different perspective using only the visual sense. She looked like she was seriously mixing her meds, and not in a healthy way.
jwb
@Brian R.: It’s my opinion that Palin is being pumped again only to block Bachmann, who is a true believer and the establishment fears (probably rightly so) that they won’t be able to control her if she gets full hold of the tea party contingent.
Tim, Interrupted
@Villago Delenda Est:
Davis X calls THAT joking little “I’m not a neat bureaucrat” statement an announcement that he won’t accept an offer from Obama? Please. I call bullshit. Obama never asked, and he didn’t ask because Krugman wouldn’t play nice with Barrack’s Wall STreet boys.
jwb
@Tim, Interrupted: I believe Krugman took himself out of the running.
Tim, Interrupted
@jwb:
Please see my comment #39.
Obama never asked, or tried to convince or otherwise courted Krugman. Now ask yourself why that might be? Do YOU think Krug would fit in well with Obama’s White House Wall Street team?
Davis X. Machina
@jwb: Tim needs to see the letter declining the offered appointment.
Villago Delenda Est
Krugman more or less said that he doesn’t work well in that environment…probably because he’d blurt out inconvenient truths and hurt the fee fees of the Ferengi assholes. Larry Summers, on the other hand, a deft bureaucratic player, does well despite the fact that he’s a fuckhead.
Krugman is wise in understanding his own limitations. He knows where he’ll be effective.
OzoneR
@Tim, Interrupted:
dude, read the link he posted
BDeevDad
@Chris: There are people, I shit you not, actually trying to change the Wikipedia article on Paul Revere to match her statements.
OzoneR
@Tim, Interrupted:
the man PUBLICLY STATED he didn’t want to serve in government, I can’t believe how ridiculous you’re being here
Villago Delenda Est
@Chris:
You forget that these assholes think 1984 is an instruction manual.
Joseph Nobles
@Redshift: They made the claim that there would be no changes at all to the plan of the person in the ad, and so the ad should be thrown out. Technically true: the person in the ad was already on Medicare. However, she didn’t make the claim that her plan would be affected. She said “families like mine” would not have the kind of Medicare that saved her life and her pocketbook. So the Republicans, in telling a technical truth, actually lied about the content of the ad, showing off that brazen hypocrisy we’ve come to utterly despise about them.
OzoneR
@Tim, Interrupted:
Since you already decided to believe whatever you want, why should anyone post a link?
OzoneR
@Davis X. Machina:
long form, not short form.
The Ancient Randonneur
Jesus, Cole the man is a Nobel Laureaute, why would anyone listen to what he has to say? Richard Shelby can surely set all this straight.
Brian R.
@Tim, Interrupted:
“Barrack”? Is the extra R for “Republican troll”?
ed drone
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Actual headline: “GOP To Replace Medicare with Groupons”
Admittedly, it was the Onion, but when has that ever mattered? Truth is truth, even if it never happened.
And that “calling it Medicare means it’s Medicare” BS the Right Whingers are pushing reminds me of the question I used to marvel at in fifth grade:
Q: “If you call a dog’s tail a leg, how many legs does he have?”
A: “Four. Calling it a leg doesn’t MAKE it a leg.”
Except, said a little voice in my head, yes, it does, if EVERYONE agrees to that change. What we have here is a campaign by the “5-Leggers” to redefine “Medicare” to mean “Voucher Care” (Or “Medi-Groupon” if you will). If enough of us are stupid enough to agree to the 5-legged dog, then we get MediVouch or VoucherCare or RationCare or whatever you want to call it, but under the name of Medicare.
I don’t intend to change what I mean when I say “Medicare,” do you?
Ed
opal
@OzoneR:
Tim plays fantasy football in the Firebagger League.
cleek
‘The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.’
SweetNostrils, fka Scuffletuffle
@Davis X. Machina: Someone needs to fax Tim their credenza.
scav
@OzoneR: Even then, TimI won’t be seeing the long form he can believe in. The sky IS green in his world.
jwb
@Tim, Interrupted: Well, if you read Krugman’s blog regularly, he’s mentioned that he has no interest regularly. You can go and search his blog as well as I can.
gypsy howell
@artem1s:
Medicareless
boss bitch
@Tim, Interrupted:
Krugman is not entitled to any position in the Obama administration.
Elliecat
@Violet:
Karen Tumulty wrote in Time a couple years ago about her uninsured brother’s health care crisis. I remember hearing her talk about it on NPR and the like but I don’t know how much influence it had.
ETA: But I do think it’s a damned good idea anyway.
Martin
@Davis X. Machina: Long form please, with a raised seal.
cat48
Paul Pot Ryan gave a foreign policy speech last week that Krauthammer & Kristol wrote for him. He’s seriously thinking of running for Prez. They plan to sell him as a Midwest Nerd who can beat Obama in the Midwest. I read this at TNR and The Weekly Standard in the last week. He’s telling FoxNews he will decide whether to run or not in “a handful of months.”
He insisted to Fox Cavuto that HE DID NOT RULE OUT RUNNING on MTP as everyone thinks he did.
The Wingnut Villagers believe he should run because he can best sell Paul Pot Vouchercare, which would kill a lot of olds under 55.
boss bitch
@Villago Delenda Est:
From the non-stop complaints that no one is listening to Krugman, he’s not effective at the NYT either.
Holden Pattern
But American Movement Conservatives believe in the magical power of naming. A couple examples off the top of my head, in addition to “Medicare”:
“Democrats” opposed Abe Lincoln and the Civil Rights Act. There are still “Democrats” today, so “Democrats” are the real racists.
“Privatizing” SSRI didn’t poll well, so now it’s called “personal accounts”, although it’s the exact same thing. But renaming it means that not only is not privatizing now, but IT NEVER WAS.
“Torture” is now “enhanced interrogation”, “water torture” is now “waterboarding”. See how that works?
The sad thing is that because of the degradation of our news environment, it really does work, so the movement conservative apparatchiks really are right about this — the power to name something is the power to define it, because nobody ever thinks about what is actually under the hood.
boss bitch
@Tim, Interrupted:
Elizabeth Warren seems to be able to handle herself well. Looks like “K-Thug” just can’t hang.
WereBear
@Villago Delenda Est: These are the same people who went on and on about Obama saying “57 states” when he meant primary races. And in the back of their little lizards brains, they know that.
cat48
Krugman does not work for Obama now because he despises and loathes Obama. Krugman is certain that he is better than Obama, like a lot of you do. If you want to see why I think that, go to Krugman’s columns in late 2007 on. Read every one of them till the present time and explain to me why you would hire someone who personally hates you. Gazillion columns of Hate.
opal
@cat48:
This only proves that Paul Ryan is above the fray and very serious.
What else could it mean?
Joseph Nobles
@cat48: Ah, yes, it’s HateObama Central around here. *sigh*
scav
Odd how disagrees with now inevitably means hates, loathes and despises, even when the former is only on certain issues.
David Hunt
@BDeevDad:
Kids don’t vote.
Mark D
@gypsy howell:
For the mutherfuckin’ win, bitches!
Seriously — that’s dripping with gallons of awesome sauce, and something I am so stealing.
As far as why Krugman doesn’t work in the Obama admin (other than the copious quotes from Kthug directly stating why), even if he DID take a gig, does anyone think the Obama team would listen?
I mean, the dude has been right about damn near everything for damn near forever, and someone from Obama’s team reads the guy’s columns and blogs regularlary (Kthug has stated this a few times, saying that he gets the occasional call from someone in the Admin.).
Yet they have just ignored every single thing he has suggested to fix things — including those that could’ve been politically viable. So I don’t blame the guy for not wanting to get anywhere near them.
Bruce S
A key fact about Ryan’s voucher plan is that it not only increases out-of-pocket expenses for seniors dramatically – they double by 2022 – but according to the CBO most of this out-of-pocket increase is due to an overall increase in spending per senior. Vouchers aren’t just a cost shift but a total health care cost escalation. Privatization fuels health care inflation – which is the exact opposite of where we need to be going as a country.
Here’s the chart based on CBO figures:
http://titanicsailsatdawn.blogspot.com/2011/05/genius-of-gops-ryancare-plan-to-end.html
El Cid
Our President is actually early 20th century Chinese nationalist anti-monarchist revolutionary leader Sun Yat Sen:
Given the political purpose it’s being put to, as a claim of fact it should be seen as very iffy.
But it does prove our President is a foreign America-hating Chinese traitor, anyway.
j low
@cat48: Kthug’s Obama columns in 2007 infuriated me. They were shrill and they accused Obama of being right of center or vague on just about everything but “Yes We Can!”. Sadly, Kthug was right.
cat48
@Joseph Nobles:
Actually, it varies. I’m not talking about you. I’m not saying anyone but Krugman hates Obama. It’s fully documented how much he loathes him in his columns from 2007 thru present. Just something I noticed during the primaries. That doesn’t make his Economic theory inaccurate or invalid. I think he’s brilliant, but if I were Obama, I certainly wouldn’t hire him and expect him to represent the Admin well.
Redshift
@Bruce S: Well, that, and the fact that the Ryan plan’s supposed motivation is the deficit, and it transfers all the savings (and more) from cutting Medicare spending to tax cuts for the rich, rather than reducing the deficit.
Amongst our weaponry…
Tim, Interrupted
@OzoneR:
Do you believe that Presidents ever solicit the services of potential team members who are initially reluctant, publicly or otherwise? Do you believe no public official has EVER, prior to their time of service, said publicly that they would rather not?
I can’t believe how naive you are pretending to be here.
Tim, Interrupted
@Brian R.:
Don’t know if you’re calling me or obama a republican troll, but I would say Obama is best described as Rockefeller Republican or a Reagan Democrat.
Tim, Interrupted
@boss bitch:
Could you please point out to me where I stated that he was so entitled?
Thanks.
Tim, Interrupted
@Martin:
OMG, you are so amazingly clever. har har har
Kyle
@El Cid:
So Sun Yat-Sen was really born in Kenya?
sixers
From the title of this post I thought this was about West Virginia’s football coach situation.
Redshift
Yes, if you’re incapable of distinguishing between “loathes” and “disagrees with on economic policy, sometimes vociferously.” I’m not going to dig back into the campaign-era archives, but these days I read Krugman regularly, and there has been absolutely nothing in “the present” that constitutes “loathing.” In fact, Krugman frequently, in describing his disagreements with administration policy, explicitly talks about how he doesn’t know whether the reason they haven’t, for example, pushed for further stimulus is because they honestly don’t think it is necessary or because they have concluded they won’t get it through Congress and so it’s better politically not to try and fail. Oooh, such loathing! It practically oozes from every word!
The reason Krugman hasn’t been invited to serve is clearly because the policy he prescribes isn’t what the president wants to pursue, whatever the reasons, and perhaps additionally because he hasn’t expressed interest. Policy could easily change with or without hiring Krugman. But one of the things I like about Obama is that he values expertise, and frankly, I think he would hire someone who “loathed” him as long as that person had the necessary expertise and was willing to follow that expertise over personal feelings. So by insisting that’s the overriding reason, you belittle both Krugman and Obama.
Tim, Interrupted
@boss bitch:
@cat48:
If you look closely, you’ll notice that she has yet to be confirmed. And of course BaRRack apparently believes it would be most discourteous to recess appoint or otherwise maneuver her into position with his big hard Yes We Can.
arguingwithsignposts
@Tim, Interrupted:
Or, the Senate Rs had pro forma sessions during the last recess to prevent that. You really are a one-note douche.
cat48
@Tim, Interrupted:
Actually, Krugman has been to dinners at the Obama WH, as well as meetings with a group of Economists more than once. He’s been consulted and given due deference by Obama.
I wish the prez would hire Fareed Zakaria who is excellent at selling Economic grand bargains for Deficits/Job Creation and Foreign Policy. He appears mainly centrist, but the policies seem quite reasonable.
Culture of Truth
Sun YaAAt Sen was in bed with Wall STret!!!!
Tim, Interrupted
@cat48:
This is a common meme with Obots: The attempt to conflate policy disagreement, earned distrust, and questioning of motives and actions with personal, emotional feelings like HATE, LOATHE, whatnot. By denigrating the criticism by classifying it as springing from an irrational feeling, they hope to discredit it. It’s bullshit.
You do the same thing with GG’s criticisms of Obama. It’s bullshit, and it’s transparent, and not coincidentally, it is the same tactic employed by Sarah Palin’s cult followers when she is taken to task. No, Sarah is not a clueless, greedy grifter, it’s that those who call attention to those qualities HATE her and are JEALOUS of her, and LOATHE and DESPISE her.
BaRRack has betrayed you folks. Wake up.
opal
@Tim, Interrupted:
You forgot Goldwater.
Tim, Interrupted
@Joseph Nobles:
Please see my post #70 above. Thank you.
Tim, Interrupted
@arguingwithsignposts:
Oh that poor, poor BaRRack; he is just so helpless against the machinations of the meanie republicans.
You Obots who endlessly tell us how powerless and overcome is poor BaRRack, are the one note douches.
Why is a douche a bad thing anyway?
opal
Who sent the Bat Signal for butthurt pumas?
shortstop
@Brian R.: Or, to paraphrase Jason Linkins’s hilarity, if Palin announced that strychnine is an essential ingredient of good pound cake, we’d have a Jonestown spread across the red states in 36 hours.
Chyron HR
@Tim, Interrupted:
Don’t forget to knock on our car windows and demand to know “How’s that Hopey-Changey thing workin’ out for ya?” Not that you’re behaving anything like a Palin supporter, of course.
arguingwithsignposts
@Tim, Interrupted:
Fucking Constitution, how does it work?
eemom
the party of death panels going all “j’accuse” about, of all things, demagoguery.
Irony, we hardly knew ye.
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
Of course they do – when a Republican refers to “vouchers”, they are referring to a scheme to chisel the black and brown kids out of decent public schools, putting them right back in their pre-Brown v. Board of Education ghetto, and keep the white kids in the good schools.
Not their fault that white voters understood exactly what the Republicans mean when they speak of “vouchers”, and are understandably terrified when they think of the same process being applied to them and their precious, precious Medicare.
Martin
@Tim, Interrupted: I’m going to amend my theory of firebagging. (Not accusing Tim of being a firebagger, but he’s being illustrative of a larger trend.)
In addition to insisting that they alone know what’s best for everyone, firebaggers insist that Obama ought to be able to trump the free will of everyone else. He’s a constant disappointment because he refuses to use his Jedi mind tricks on everyone around him.
artem1s
@BDeevDad:
school vouchers are what you give brown people so they don’t move out to the suburbs and take over your nice white neighborhood and schools. It’s OK for them but not for nice white grammys and pawpaws.
BO_Bill
Pizza is pizza. The United States Marine Corps remains the United States Marine Corps, despite those who wish it not to be so. Krugman is the most influential person ever. Mathematics are mathematics. Pick three of four.
A Photograph of Krugman and his Wife, with Two Cats
shortstop
@SweetNostrils, fka Scuffletuffle: What is the origin of this one, please? I keep seeing it, but apparently the BJ lexicon has not been updated.
Joe Bauers
I have nothing to contribute to this thread except that I move that Krugman’s nickname be changed from “K-Thug” to “Kthulhu”.
jwb
@BO_Bill: Who claimed that Krugman is the most influential person ever?
Martin
@shortstop: Oh, that’s a deep internal joke. A year or so back there was a massively entertaining thread one evening with some guy who was trying to win an argument and to back up his authority on the subject he kept threatening to fax Cole his credentials. I’m not sure how you’d document all the win there, but maybe the lexicon should just have a link back to the thread so people could explore it themselves. ‘The helicopters are laughing’ is another common phrase from that thread.
Villago Delenda Est
@cat48:
If Ryan’s overall expertise is as faulty as his history (the utterly ridiculous notion that the Brit elites were, prior to WWI, eager for the US to take over as the “leader of western civilization) it would match his knowledge of Christianity and Adam Smith. That is, all of it based on the utter fantasy of Ayn Rand.
The Other Chuck
Here’s the next question: Imagining if VoucherCare covered 100% of costs, what is even the purpose of paying to the insurance companies and not the actual medical provider such as Medicare currently does?
For this audience, we all know the answer, but it’s an uncomfortable question for any Republican. So naturally the Village would never be so gauche as to actually ask it
opal
@BO_Bill:
Pizza is was one of the Liberal Arts.
I once had coffee on the same electric train Al Franken was riding.
Tim, Interrupted
@Mark D:
You make my point from a different direction. Point being that he is not in the O administration because he has not been asked to be, and he has not been asked to be because O doesn’t want him there, and he doesn’t want him there because he wants Wall Street goons there instead because their policies are his policies. So in summary: Krugman is not in the O administration because BaRRack is a Wall Street/Corporate/Business technocrat.
As you can see, the Obots want to pretend that Krugman is not in the administration because Krugman does not want to be, because he HATES, LOATHES, DESPISES, and WISHES COOTIES on Obama, and is undoubtedly a racist to boot.
El Cid
As a general principle, it’s perfectly okay and reasonable to believe that a President may be doing mostly what is politically possible (it’s almost never safe assuming exactly what “is” and “isn’t”) for the best policies he can pass, and also feel disappointed.
When the status is hell via handbasket, it’s okay to be disappointed in that our political leaders are just not doing the things to get us out of it.
It’s not our job to strategically choose how we must feel toward some individual politician, particularly given the environment of what’s happening versus what’s needed.
There are of course different poles of this.
Whatever the argument may be about the best policy seen as (by whichever observers) as politically possible, there are those who will angrily place personal blame on Obama.
Likewise, there are a lot of people for whom I couldn’t even think of a realistic circumstance (outside beheading his daughter or some such) in which Obama made a decision worth criticizing — particularly not with any degree of notable emotion — because whatever the decision was, it was by definition the best politically possible.
More broadly, these days I think there’s a widespread notion which is the opposite of presuming any international military action as illegal: the view that nearly any military action initiated which has the imprimatur of the anti-democratic institution of the UN Security Council representing 5 nuclear powers, and which in reality sees Russia and China pressed into abstaining on any military intervention, as either illegal or unjust.
Because by definition the UNSC decided it, so end of discussion.
I wonder these days if so many people who have for the last years called the invasion or occupation of Iraq illegal and unjustified would not be opposed to it if it had had UNSC backing (i.e., US & UK, maybe France, but Russia & China abstaining) and a justification based on RTP.
Ash Can
If Krugman actually does loathe Obama, I can definitely live with his kind of loathing. I can’t recall a single instance where he based his disagreement on anything but a solid analysis of the economic underpinnings of whatever policy (or lack thereof) he was condemning. I can’t recall him ever going off on purely emotional tangents or forming alliances with people with questionable agendas. In short, the guy strikes me as intellectually and politically clean, so — unlike with numerous other people who grouse about Obama — when he bitches, I listen.
Tim, Interrupted
@Martin:
And yet, mysteriously, Republicans are endlessly able to use THEIR Jedi mind tricks on Obama with great success. I just want progressive Star Wars shit to equal that of the Empire.
opal
@Tim, Interrupted:
Either that, or Paul Krugman just really wants to be a journalist.
shortstop
@Ash Can: Perfection.
boss bitch
@Tim, Interrupted:
Krugman is not the only economist on this Earth. He’s not the only one that thinks the way he does. He is not entitled to any position in the White House because there are others who can do the job just as well or better.
Any questions or complaints regarding Obama’s hiring choices shouldn’t include ‘why didn’t he hire Paul Krugman’.
boss bitch
@Tim, Interrupted:
Yep. I’m right. Reality escapes you. Let’s disregard the Republican abuse of the rules and just make up shit that confirms your own reality.
Tim, Interrupted
@boss bitch:
In reply to one of my comments, you stated that Krugman is not entitled to a Obama admin position. I asked you where in my comment I stated that he was. You replied by repeating your first statement. Ergo, you are full of shit.
Krugman is not in the O admin. I want to know why that is, so I asked. You obviously do not know the answer so please abstain. Thank you.
eemom
@Tim, Interrupted:
you really are being particularly insufferable today. And it’s Monday. So please give us all a break and STFU. Thank you.
boss bitch
What has Krugman suggested that could pass in the 112th congress? And what suggestions did he have for 111th congress (Senate) that could get the vote of Conservative Democrats?
He doesn’t want to get near them? he can’t handle opposition then? Krugman fans are always saying he has giant ones, but right here you say he doesn’t want to be challenged.
Tim, Interrupted
@boss bitch:
You obviously believe that with an Obama administration in power, and a Democratic Senate, the Dems are powerless in the face of Republican shennanigans, just as they were witha Dem Senate, House, and White House. There is NOTHING that can be done. Well, I assert that it is Obama’s and the Dems’ jobs to figure out what CAN be done and to do it AGGRESSIVELY to oppose and frustrate the will of the republicans. It is not my job; I have a job that I am good at. Obama sucks at his, as does Harry Reid, yet apparently you support them wholeheartedly. This makes no sense. Why do you want them in their positions? Why don’t you want Dems who will oppose them as vigorously as they make mischief? Why aren’t you interested in RESULTS instead of EXCUSES?
OzoneR
@Tim, Interrupted:
and we answered, because he has openly said he doesn’t want to serve in government.
OzoneR
@Ash Can:
Bush tax cuts…where Krugman suggested we let them all expire even though it would hurt the economy, just to show Republicans we’re serious about not compromising with them
OzoneR
@Tim, Interrupted:
which is why Medicare ended.
Tim, Interrupted
@eemom:
As always, eesmarm, insults from you are kudos from the gods. I continue to love your Depends-wearing self because I know you are incapable of doing it on your own. Now toddle off to Bingo…
And also, additionally and furthermore too as always, I love the revealing and frequent use of “us all” and similar phrases in your comments. Your desperate need to project that you are one of the imagined “group” is poignant.
boss bitch
I just want to pass this on to anyone looking for work. This is for the Obama digital team.
http://www.barackobama.com/page/jobs
Oh and Tim, they are looking for writers. Maybe Paul Krugman can get into the administration that way.
Tim, Interrupted
@OzoneR:
Jesus, you really are a willfully ignorant, endless excuse making Obot.
Proceed.
OzoneR
@Tim, Interrupted:
9,000 jobs are being created in my neighborhood thanks to the stimulus package no Republican voted for. A stimulus package they accused Dems of “shoving down their throat.” 9,000 jobs that will be created to eliminate a train junction that slows down commuter trains and Amtrak.
Of course this isn’t going to convince you of anything. You’re reponse to “Krugman isn’t in the administration because he doesn’t want to be” is “you’re on Obot”
You’re only here to rile people up because no one has fucked you good in years and you think that’s everyone’s problem.
9,000 jobs and faster trains, thats why I want them in their positions. So suck it.
eemom
@Tim, Interrupted:
ok, do me, personally, a favor and go fight with some lesbians in a seed store. Thank you.
boss bitch
I’d just like to say I don’t hate Paul Krugman. I don’t care what he’s said about the president, but FFS there are other qualified economists in the U.S. There are other people outside of the clique who are just as qualified. Just like Warren is not the only one who can run the consumer agency (stfu if you have signed a petition for her to run for the Senate) and Howard Dean is not the only one that can run the DNC.
Tim, Interrupted
@OzoneR:
9,000 jobs are being created in my neighborhood thanks to the stimulus package no Republican voted for.
Obama’s big hard Stimulus Package was and is WOEFULLY inadequate to its alleged task and should have been at least twice as large for the country as a whole to do much of any good to the American economy as a whole. It was crumbs to the beggars to save face. But nevermind, as long as YOU and YOUR neighborhood got yours, fuck everyone else, yes?
Well, it’s clear that your informants are woefully overpaid and pathetically inept: I was fucked by the BF really well at least three times in the last week, and it’s NO problem at all, believe me. You should look into new intel providers. Are you using Blackwater?
Tim, Interrupted
@eemom:
I am doing you the favor of loving your unself-loved, wrinkled old cooz as we speak, so don’t expect any more. I have only so much to give and not punching out your Lesbian lover at the nursery took a lot out of me. Now toddle on, Sugar…my nose tells me it’s time for your changing. First left then two doors down on the right, remember…?
OzoneR
@Tim, Interrupted:
and yet a trillion times better, almost literally, than what the Republicans propose.
I’ll take it, thanks
Tim, Interrupted
@OzoneR:
Ah yes, the well known Obama campaign slogan: Even just a little bit is better than the Republicans would do! Vote Obama!
That is awesome.
RP
Shakespeare got there first: “A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.”
RP
You remind of internet libertarians who rant about how stupid everyone else is and how perfect the world would be if only they got to run everything.
Tim, Interrupted
@RP:
Hmmm..how so? I am not a Libertarian, by any means. I am a progressive, which since Obama is at best a REagan democrat, leaves me very frustrated.
Never have said Obama is stupid. (Is there somewhere in a comment where I said “everyone” was stupid? Link?) Anything but. Which is why I don’t believe all this noise that Republicans are constantly outmaneuvering him; things are going pretty much as he likes it.
Never said I want to run the country (is there somewhere in a comment I said that? Link?). That is largely Obama and Reid’s jobs and they suck at it. I make art and write and I’m very good at what I do; too bad same can’t be said of your political leaders. I do, however, suppose that the people whose opinions really matter to O and R (clue: you’re not one of them) are quite happy with their performance.
OzoneR
@RP:
Well i did suggest to Tim that if he is so discontented, he should run himself, but never got a response. Still don’t expect one.
ruemara
@Tim, Interrupted:
Idiot. There is no recess appointment because there has been no recess. Congress is defacto open. http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/house-gop-unlikely-to-block-obama-from-making-recess-appointments-after-all.php
of course, this is all Obama’s fault.
FlipYrWhig
This is a fun game. Why didn’t Obama appoint ____ to a position in his administration? I’ll tell you why, it’s because ____ is not a corporate whore like the rest of them!
RP
Because you start from the presumption that you know exactly what’s best for the country, and then refuse to acknowledge that, even if you’re right (and that’s a big “if”), what’s right and what’s possible rarely overlap. To paraphrase, no ideology survives its first encounter with reality.
It might be true that the country really needed a $1.4T stimulus, but that was never in the cards. More importantly, the world and the economy aren’t binary — even if a $700B stimulus wasn’t “enough,” it was still very valuable.
FlipYrWhig
@Tim, Interrupted:
The reason why you haven’t been on the cover of ArtForum is because you just haven’t fought hard enough!
Tim, Interrupted
@OzoneR:
I would be a horrible politician. I am an artist and writer. Why don’t you suggest to obama that he become an artist and writer?
Are you suggesting that only politicians have standing to critique politicians? Interesting.
I do not believe that ALL politicians have to suck at their jobs. I believe that some CHOOSE to suck at their jobs, at least from a progressive point of view.
I also believe that Dems such as yourself have allowed persons to become more important than policies. You are more interested in Obama being president than that progressive/liberal goals be achieved.
Tim, Interrupted
@ruemara:
Dolt. “poor poor Obama outmaneuvered by those mean republicans again!” He just can’t find any way in holy hell to out play these mean people.
Ergo he does a shitty job and is a loser. Why is that so hard for you t o admit?
Tim, Interrupted
@RP:
Except of course, for Republican ideology, which in Obama’s world seems to do quite well.
FlipYrWhig
@Tim, Interrupted:
Um, Obama is a writer.
arguingwithsignposts
@Tim, Interrupted:
Says you. Given the quality of your written output here, that’s a debatable assertion.
@Tim, Interrupted:
When the only alternative is one of the GOP Clown Posse, I’m very interested in Obama remaining president. But this is not a binary question like you seem to want it to be.
grandpajohn
@Davis X. Machina: Tim needs lots of things including a 2×4 upside the head to help rid him of his arrogant shitty attitude that he has certain knowledge of all things including who Obama has asked to be in his administration.
By the way Tim don’t bother to work yourself into a rightous rant in response. I made it a policy long ago to never get into pissing contest with skunks. You would do yourself far more good to grow up some and learn how to present an argument to those who differ with you since you do at time have some good points but damn you need to learn a little humility to go with them.
Lawnguylander
Whenever I see someone trolling a blog relentlessly I always assume that person is getting a lot of satisfaction from his work and also having lots of very good sex.
Triassic Sands
The US has a two party system. If one party has embraced the politics of dishonesty and lunacy, then the system fails. Most commentators refuse to admit in public that our system can’t work in its current form and the fault rests on the beliefs and behavior of the Republican Party.
If you refuse to admit that the GOP has nothing responsible to offer, then the entire conversation is going to be pointless. And that’s where we are today.
Republican hostility toward Medicare and Medicaid is longstanding. Any Republican discussing either program should be required to demonstrate that his or her comments are based on a genuine desire to improve the program and not a hidden desire to undercut and eventually end one or both programs.
grandpajohn
In reading the rest of the thread, I have changed my opinion. While Tim meets the conditions I made in previous post, my opinion is that Tim is actually a spoofer (Doug J anyone).The replies are too slick and calculated to offend for Tim to be real.
les
@Tim, Interrupted:
Nice job on the strawman. The place is fucking littered with the powerless shreds of your hapless foe. I think your work is done here, and you can retire gracefully. Or with your usual style, as you prefer.
les
@Tim, Interrupted:
Yeah, they’re pretty ecstatic about the success of vouchercare, failure of the auto industry, the extra $4T of top end tax cuts, termination of estate tax, continuation of DADT, Texas’ secession, the cuts traded for the continuing resolution, vigorous defense of DOMA, etc.
Have you ever taken an art course involving colors other than black and white?
El Cid
Krugman has been clear in emphasizing repeatedly that he doesn’t regard himself as suited for an administration position. He much prefers engaging in research and academics, and says he’s much better suited to that.
So if anyone had asked him, however subtly or indirectly, he’s saying he would have said ‘no thanks’.
Of course it’s never necessary to be in some administrative or policy position to argue for one or other policy as better. To think so would be silly.