Since this race is a “least objectionable wins” situation, Mitt and T-Paw are looking pretty good.
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.
This fight is for everything.
Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.
There is no right way to do the wrong thing.
It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.
Tick tock motherfuckers!
You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.
Let’s not be the monsters we hate.
Beware of advice from anyone for whom Democrats are “they” and not “we.”
The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.
My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.
You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.
If you are still in the gop, you are either an extremist yourself, or in bed with those who are.
Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.
Republican obstruction dressed up as bipartisanship. Again.
Republicans are the party of chaos and catastrophe.
Putin must be throwing ketchup at the walls.
Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.
Polls are now a reliable indicator of what corporate Republicans want us to think.
Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.
No one could have predicted…
“woke” is the new caravan.
Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…
It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.
Randinho
Bachmann also rates high. That speaks volumes . . .
jwb
That chart is good news for the popcorn futures! Given this data, I’m going to go with Bachmann. Among other things, teatards will think that she is most likely to piss off liberals, which seems to be an important criterion these days.
Davo
What’s their beef with Huntsman?? ahhh… not pissing off enough Liberals… makes sense..
Third Eye Open
I am going dark-horse here. I think it will shake out to be Mittens and Cain. Possible ticket? Maybe…
The GOP gets a religious minority and suave WASP with a side of ethnic Protestantism. I can guarantee they have ground-games which include bringing out the conservative black community and trying to meld that effort with the wider religious mobilization that I am sure Rove is involved with.
I don’t think they will win against Obama, but that says nothing about down-ticket races. This election, much more than the recent past will be about mobilizing groups, and making the case that this election WILL have consequences. It seems to be the motto the Pubes are runnin’ with.
Hal
Why are people still dismissing Romney? I realize it’s a dream come true to have Bachman or Palin, but the “sensible” candidate always ends up winning. It’s true the crazy has gone up considerably during Bush and since then, especially once Obama arrived, but to me at least, all signs point to Romney.
4tehlulz
Bachmann/Mittens 2012
JPL
Mitt’s religion doesn’t appear to be a factor this time. They are just looking for a white man to run. His disastrous job creation skills will not hinder him.
Woodrowfan
Huntsman is intelligent, experienced, honest and educated. of course he’s less popular with Republicans than loons like Bachman, Cain and Santorum! Tells you everything you need know about the repukes..
me
The GOP really hates Gary Johnson. He’s like a pro choice Ron Paul.
Shalimar
I am surprised that 88% of South Carolina Republicans polled know who Gary Johnson is to find him objectionable. I find that very hard to believe.
@Woodrowfan: Honest? This would be the same Huntsman who has been lying his ass off the last few weeks about his past positions?
Joseph Nobles
@Hal: “the “sensible” candidate always ends up winning”
The 2000 Republican primary should make you hang your head in shame for saying such a thing. Dubya the “sensible” candidate? Horsefeathers.
Bachmann and Cain score so low on unfavorables because the general public isn’t as aware of them. Let’s see what happens after a couple of debates. Cain’s favorables did rise after the last debate.
However, Romney scoring so well in unfavorables despite being a known quantity does speak very well for his chances. Pawlenty will drop out before Santorum does.
The all-seeing Nobles sees all.
Guster
@Hal: RomneyCare is a big hit. Mormonism is a smaller one, but with an important block.
JPL
Think Progress had this little poll
I would think the 32 percent who viewed the Mormon religion unfavorably would be evangelicals and it would also reflect in other polls but apparently not.
Dream On
It won’t be Romney. You heard it here first.
Woodrowfan
OK, fair enough. I was comparing him on a sliding scale to the others on that list, but you are right.
Annelid Gustator
Rep. Bachmann in the top three? Wow, that is unexpected.
AAA Bonds
THAT’LL DO, PIG. THAT’LL DO
AAA Bonds
@Third Eye Open:
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
AAA Bonds
@Shalimar:
My guess is that people are mixing him up with Gary Condit because every time I mention “Gary Johnson” someone around me does that (because there’s no reason to know who Gary Johnson is)
David
It appears that Palin can work at Fox and be a candidate.
jwb
@Annelid Gustator: All I needed to see was the fawning of our media over Sarah Palin’s recent road trip to realize that the Republican establishment fears Bachmann has a real chance. After having spent the last year cutting Palin down to suddenly become interested in her again—that only makes sense when you see it as a response to Bachmann’s recent surge. They are trying to use Palin to block Bachmann’s path. If Palin doesn’t officially get in soon, however, it won’t work, and I’m not even sure it will work if she does get in. My prediction: Bachmann will take Iowa and SC. Romney will take NH. Then it gets interesting.
Bulworth
Mitten’s Iowa negs are pretty bad.
NonyNony
@Shalimar:
I’d be surprised by that too, but that’s not what this poll shows.
This poll shows that among South Carolina self-identified Republican voters who know who he is, 82% of them have a negative opinion of him. So imagine they polled thousands of SC voters and only 50 of them said “oh yeah I know that guy” – that would mean that 41 of those 50 had a bad opinion of Johnson.
Without the commensurate name recognition data, I’m not sure what this particularly says about Johnson, Huntsman or any of the others at the bottom of the graph. If you click over on the PPP poll of SC, you see that the response for Johnson is actually 83% not sure, 14% unfavorable, and 2% favorable. That’s where the 88% comes from – among those who have an opinion about Johnson (16% of those polled) 14% have a negative opinion about him and 2% like him. Both groups are under the crazification factor limit, so I don’t think it says much about his chances at all.
On the other hand, Romney is sitting with a 56% favorable and a 27% unfavorable with only 16% on the fence. Palin is sitting at a whopping 60% favorable 33% unfavorable with only 7% fencesitters. Name recognition isn’t impacting their percentages at all. And Bachmann has 45% favorable, 16% unfavorable and is still sitting with almost 40% in the fence-sitter category – so she could actually improve if some of those Sarah Palin fans decide they like her too.
Dennis SGMM
It seems a bit early in the game for polls to be predictive. One thing seems certain though; Republican voters can’t get enough batshit insanity on the economy, social issues, and the importance of being white.
Paul W.
Bachmann right now is the scariest candidate, she is almost a shoe-in for the GOP primary and because of the absolute stupidity of Palin the “intelligence” bar is set low enough for her to hop over… the media has already forgotten her crazy McCarthyesque comments in 2008. She can raise tons of money, get air time, and is loved by the base.
That being said, Obama still defeats her given the current state of things and the 2008 ground team will hopefully be back in full force with an even more meager GOP effort to compete against. Just as a candidate, I’m going to call Bachmann and what will look like a closer election than we think right now.
/pessimism hat
shortstop
@Dream On: It will be Romney. You heard it here…um, unfirst.
Third Eye Open
@AAA Bonds: Cain will probably not make it through, but this does set the stage for bringing in a black conservative who won’t go all hippity-hop on them in public. Allen West is a bit too crazy, and has far too many biker friends to allow near the levers of power, but Cain seems smart enough to throw a few bombs and raise money at the same time. It seemed to work for Palin, and she is far less mentally organized than Cain.
Rove has a hurricane of cash to rain upon this next election. Do you not think they will try to discourage and wedge the AA community. Especially using the trusty ‘gay-marriage’ trope to whip up religious sentiment? Seems to have been the M.O. in the recent past…
shortstop
@Joseph Nobles: Bush was the nominee because to the business/establishment Repubs who decide these things, he was the sensible candidate. He simultaneously appealed to movement conservatives and the religious right — really, he was the perfect storm of a GOP candidate who could bring together those untidy factions, something we’re unlikely to see again. Failing that, the “sensible” candidate wins.
Fred
But but what about Romney care? I thought that was a non-starter with the Republitards?
Linda Featheringill
Who is Johnson?
Kirbster
A year ago, I thought it would be a Jeb Bush/Scott Brown ticket in 2012 (and I still think it’s a possiblity in 2016 if Brown keeps his Senate seat and Obama is re-elected), but now I’m seeing Mittens/Rubio as a likely pair. Rubio would be the geographic balancing/tea party/minority interest half of the GOP ticket, without a lot of baggage.
WyldPirate
@Guster: @Guster:
You folks counting on Romney’s Mormonism to be a big turn-off with the FundieXian Crazies are going to be in for a big shock if he gets the nomination.
Those people will hold their nose and vote for Romney over the Nasty Muslamofascist Negro Usurper that took their country away from them.
Fred
@WyldPirate: Yes we know Obama is smarter, richer, luckier, and better looking than you, and he is your president. And he is black. We know that makes you deeply hateful and eats away at your soul like a cancer.
Thanks for reminding us. It warms our heart.
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
@WyldPirate: Glad to see you’re taking your meds again. This not only made sense, it’s the fucking stone cold truth. Romney’s Mormonism isn’t going to be an issue at all for many reasons, but the biggest one is…
There will be plenty of other reasons GOP voters vote for Romney, but this is and always was going to be #1.
WyldPirate
@shortstop:
I agree shortstop. Romney will be Obama’s opponent. The rest of the field is either too crazy or too boring and lacking in experience or both.
Romney will win New Hampshire, probably won’t even try in Iowa and will lose South Carolina (because of the crazy shithouse rats living in that loony state).
If the economy is stumbling along like it is now a year from now and Romney is Obama’s opponent, the electorate is going to be in a nasty, “throw the bums out” mood.
wonkie
I don’t think the Mormonism is that big a deal to anyone. I am surprised that Romney isn’t seen by the base as a pandering say-anything fake.After all he is a pandering say anything fake.
Redshift
@Third Eye Open:
Discourage, yes, but that’s a far cry from “bringing out the conservative black community.” There is a segment of the African-American community that is technically conservative (especially religiously), but the idea that that will align them with what Republicans have mangled the idea of conservatism into is laughable — for all their talk of “traditional values,” the modern conservative movement is all about free market fundamentalism, “I got mine” over community, racism, nativism, bigotry and xenophobia.
Yes, there is some potential overlap in the areas of gay marriage and sometimes abortion, but when they’ve tried to turn that into support for their candidates, they’ve generally discovered to their dismay that African Americans aren’t stupid. (A classic example was the 2006 VA Senate race, when they got an anti-gay-marriage constitutional amendment on the ballot, and tried to use it to get African American votes. They did in fact get a higher AA turnout, some of whom voted for the amendment, but who pretty much all voted against George Allen.)
Fred
@WyldPirate: Once again proving your ignorance. Stick with the Teabagger schtick.
boss bitch
@WyldPirate:
What’s up WildEyed?! Feeling good today? Seen any new polls you’d like to share? I have one.
http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/06/08/romney_opens_lead_for_gop_nomination.html
The title and body of the article is clearly slanted to make Romney look good but basically Obama is KICKING EVERYONE’S ASS!!
Your welcome.
boss bitch
Just to be clear, polls this early don’t say much because the campaign has barely started and Obama has not started to campaign yet- not fully. I’d like to see how much damage the Repubs will do to Romney in the primaries.
cat48
NEW POLL Todays, Quinnipac has Obama 47 Mittens 41. Of course, this will not be covered.
Woodrowfan
what is wyldpirate saying that’s so wrong? The repuke voters would rather vote for a Mormon than for a black Democrat (one who many are deluded (or nuts) enough to think is a Marxist, Muslim, atheist. ) seems right to me.
cat48
@boss bitch:
You beat me!
kindness
Yea but Bachman comes in third in this race. Bachman?!?
Honestly you might as well run Palin if you’re going to go with Bachman. Two peas in a pod. So this poll may be viable for a Republican primary but obviously has nothing to do with a general election.
Tom Q
“Since this race is a “least objectionable wins” situation”
Sorry, this phrase assume facts not in evidence — certainly not in evidence during the many 2010 GOP Senate primaries, where the least objectionable candidates got thrown over for lunatics time after time. I know everyone is counting on presidential year voting-levels preventing that outcome, and a return to the get-in-line tradition that made Dole & McCain nominees despite tepid party-roots support. But I see a posibility the GOP id escapes this year.
Romney just has the whiff of Ed Muskie ’72, to me.
Ghanima Atreides
why is GaJo so high? is it the bad toupeé or the joint EDK/GG/libertarian endorsement?
WyldPirate
@Fred:
What the fuck are you talking about you dumb son of a bitch?
I don’t hate Obama..I hate his goddamned policies in Afghanistan, I hate his kow-towing to Wall st and big business and I hate his insistance on negotiating with the lunatics on the right and lending legitmacy to their idiotic fucking memes that have destroyed the country.
As a person and an individual, I admire him and the struggle he has to go through to accomplish what he has so far.
As a leader, though, he flat-out fucking sucks.
No kindly go take a flying leap up your own rectum you piece of shit.
Ghanima Atreides
@Tom Q: Do you remember the evangelical pastors that took out a full page ad in the NYT threatening to secede from the GOP if Romney was on McCain’s ticket?
nevah happen.
There is segment of the WEC (white evangelical xian) demographic that would vote a Satan ticket before voting for a mormon.
artem1s
@boss bitch:
that’s odd because last night NPR was saying polls had Mittens over Obama by a slight margin. Not saying its true and don’t remember which poll but it seemed to signal that the GOP deciders are tired of the Crazy Clown Circus and are now behind pushing the Romney brand. IMO he will be the nominee for better or worse and mostly because he has demonstrated he can raise huge amounts of cash for the party. It’s pretty obvious that the GOP is more vested in cash flow and making sure the war chest in full for 2014/2016 than winning the WH in 2012. Also.too congressional and state races.
WyldPirate
@Woodrowfan:
They can’t stand anyone who dares to criticize President Immaculate Perfection, Woodrowfan.
Many of the people that post here–(fred, ABL, General Stuck, etc.) here are just as blind and fucking stupid as the Palin worshipers.
Ghanima Atreides
@Linda Featheringill: Who is Johnson?
GaJo is the libertarian mancrush this year.
GG and Sully dig him too.
WyldPirate
@boss bitch:
69% wrong track, 59% disapproval of Obama’s handling of the economy, 9+% U-3 and 16+% U-6 will trump that shit if it stays the same or gets worse.
Cole’s tag of “Black Jimmy Carter” is going to be prophetic. The Rethugs are already starting to wrap the economy–which is his now, not Bush’s no matter how harder Obama tries to say it is Bush’s fault–around his neck. It will be the anchor that sinks him, too.
jwb
@Kirbster: If it is Romney, I think he’ll go with Perry as his VP.
Ghanima Atreides
@WyldPirate: that is a lie.
no one is as pithed as a Palinista.
Do you see ABL or the General trying to subvert Wikipedia in support of O?
Ghanima Atreides
@jwb: i think a Perry/Palin or Palin/Perry ticket is more likely. They are homies.
jwb
@WyldPirate: I have a strong suspicion that anyone who did what it took to win the presidency as a Democrat would suck as a leader in your eyes.
WyldPirate
@wonkie:
“Pandering say-anything fake” is the description of all politicians that aspire to the Presidency and most any other political office.
Ghanima Atreides
@WyldPirate: guess what IS still Bush’s.
Iraq.
The conservative elites welded Iraq onto Bush when they were trying to scrape him off their shoe for the teabagger event.
When Iraq plants a boot in America’s ass in December and we lose the three largest and most expensive foreign airbases ever built with taxpayer monies, Bush gets the blame.
He wrote the SOFA that is kicking us out.
shortstop
@Tom Q: Well, that’s the interesting question–will they revert to their usual MO in a presidential race, or are they now so far gone that all bets are actually off on who gets it? I’m pretty sure it’s the former because of who bankrolls all this, but not quite sure enough to put money on it.
jwb
@Ghanima Atreides: As I said above, I’m now putting my money on Bachmann over Palin; in that match-up I believe that Bachmann wins and in a direct show down with Romney, either Palin or Bachmann would win. It’s possible that if neither can get the upper hand Palin and Bachmann might end up eliminating each other, in which case Romney might slip through. If Bachmann is in, I don’t see any space for Perry given that Palin—whether she’s in or out—won’t declare herself until it would be too late to make room for Perry. At that point Perry’s only chance, which is not out of the realm of possibility, would be a brokered convention. I agree that if Palin was to win the nomination, Perry would be a natural VP choice.
WyldPirate
@Ghanima Atreides:
I wouldn’t put it past either one of them if it Obama was involved. ABL might be able to pull it off. general Stuck is too stupid to manage it.
@jwb:
That would be because of the fact of what people have to go through to run the gauntlet to get to the Presidency.
Decent, competent honest leaders with capabilities and the integrity to do what is right for the country wopn’t subject themselves to the process of running.
Our political system and the media is set up for dirtbags to win and, with the cooperation of the idiotic voters who enable that sort of shit, will continue to ensure we get either complete manipulatable meatpuppets in office or scum.
H.L Mencken nailed this years ago from the Baltimore Sun, 1920, via Wikipedia and reprinted in the “Carnivale of Buncombe”, By H.L Mencken:
Cris (without an H)
Remember those heady days in the winter of 1999 when we thought it could be John McCain vs Bill Bradley? Ah, memories.
Cris (without an H)
Holy smokes, it’s WyldPirate vs matoko-chan. This thread rules.
jwb
@Cris (without an H): W was an establishment candidate, however. He was brought in precisely to be an alternative to McCain. This time around the establishment is perfectly fine with Mittens. It’s the base who can’t stand the guy.
Tom Q
@shortstop: Certainly Big Money Talks prevailed in ’96, when Buchanan had a brief flurry in the early primaries, and the powers that be got together and coalesced around Dole despite lack of enthusiasm. McCain was a nearer thing: he benefitted from running against a field of further-right-ies in primaries where plurality wins gave him disproportionate numbers of delegates. Romney has competition on his side of the field — Huntsman and Pawlenty are also gunning for the “not 100% despicable” vote. Should the crazy right coalesce around one candidate, they could reverse McCain’s feat. Plus you have significant numbers on the right who honestly believe it was the fact that McCain didn’t go far enough in their direction that cost him the election — a conviction reconfirmed by their (erroneous) belief that the Tea Party, not the recession, was the major reason for their ’10 success. This could make them more resistant to go-along-to-get-along pleas.
The reason I bring up Ed Muskie (and, yeah, I’m old enough to have lived through that race, albeit as someone too young — 18 — to have understood all the machinations at the time): the rationale for why Dems would line up behind him — because they hated Nixon to the depths of their souls and would forego all else to effect his defeat — is precisely the reasoning I’m hearing today for Romney. But Muskie had, for the truly lefty wing, committed an unforgivable sin — not sufficiently opposing Vietnam early enough — which I think is comparable to Romney’s association with health care.
Obviously, it’s all going to have to play out. I’m just not convinced this will be a humdrum year in GOP circles.
Cris (without an H)
It’s really easy to forget, in light of his actual presidency, how much of a moderate his campaign presented him as. Even though we had Molly Ivins and Jim Hightower to warn us at the time, the nation still heard the name “George Bush” and thought of his father.
Fred
@WyldPirate: Why are you not talking about the Quinpac poll today showing Obama ‘slaughtering’ (your words yesterday about the WaPo poll) everyone?
No you don’t hate Obama. But you will call him an Usurper (Teabagger speak for “look at me, I’m a moron”) and breathlessly spittle over oulier polls.
Any other lies you want to spew today WldPirate?
Ash Can
I’m thinking more and more that Romney will back into the nomination the way McCain did. Limbaugh will shill for him again, the batshit-insane faction (now arguably the majority in the GOP) will be splintered by all the other wackos in the primaries, and Mitt may even be able to get some of the mouthbreathers to vote for him with his shameless pandering. What I wonder about is how crazy he’ll (be forced to) go with his VP pick.
Davis X. Machina
@shortstop:
Neither party can win the general with just the 40% lock vote it have going in.
Someone’s got to get that other 11%.
That means Mr. and Mrs. Low Information, “I make my mind up between Labor Day and Election Day, I vote the man, not the party.”
And this is not an adventurous country. It’ll be some reassuring guy in a blue suit, not a bomb-tosser, who gets the GOP nod, unless they forgo winning right out of the chute.
This is a nation of chain restaurants. Applebee’s. Romney. Chili’s. Pawlenty. We expect the expected.
(Once in a while America does go a little nuts, and eats ethnic. P.F. Chang’s. Obama)
shortstop
@Davis X. Machina: Yep. That’s why I believe it will be Romney, and if not Romney, Pawlenty. I’ll be very, very surprised if it plays out otherwise.
However, I do think the GOP primaries will be more entertaining than usual.
P.F. Chang’s made me laugh. Too true.
shortstop
Also, too, it should be legal in all states to poke “I vote the man, not the party” people in the snoot. It’s bad enough that they have no idea how the political process works and things get/do not get done, but they always have to deliver that line with such misplaced smugness.
jwb
@Cris (without an H): I just meant that W was supported heavily by establishment money. This time around the establishment won’t be able to push someone who seems moderate (whatever the reality) because such a person won’t be able to run the gauntlet of the primary. They closed off that strategy when they made the decision to weaponize the stupid with the teatards. It’s the only reason Obama remains the favorite to win in 2012. If the Goopers were even close to sane or showed that they had a plan that didn’t rely on the existence of unicorns, Obama would be toast.
Fred
@WyldPirate: Yes yes we know you hate that Obama is better than you in every way. You don’t need to keep reminding us.
Villago Delenda Est
Ron Paul has been running web ads about “Romneycare” recently. Don’t know how much impact that will have, but Paul is trying to wreck Romney, and clearly sees him as the greatest obstacle to Paul’s fantasy of being the nominee.
shortstop
@Villago Delenda Est: I don’t think that will influence anyone other than people already disposed to like Paul.
Catsy
Look, I’ll take a backseat to no one in my level of contempt for WyldPirate’s particular flavor of concern trolling and pathological knee-jerk Obama hatred, but he’s not wrong about the Republican primary. In the end, given a choice between a gay marrying communist Dhimmicrat negro and a Mormon, the religionists in the GOP will overwhelmingly choose the Mormon.
Romney’s magic underoos will suppress their enthusiasm to one degree or another, and certainly some of the hardcore evangelicals will stay home, but the vast majority will hold their nose and vote for the guy who isn’t a black antichrist bent on annihilating their fantasy version of America.
WyldPirate’s description of Obama as “usurper” et al was simply a description of how the nutjobs on the right view him.
On a related note, in a cage match between WyldPirate and matoko-chan is it acceptable to root for injuries?
Mike in NC
@Ash Can:
Choosing from Congress, it could be Paul Ryan or Mark Rubio. Possibly Rand Paul, despite his dad’s feelings about the flip-flopper Willard. Stranger matches have happened.
Or it could be one of the teatard Midwestern governors.
cat48
Davis X. Machina
@Catsy:
You mean they’ll vote for the lesser of two evils?
Note to GOP: ur doing it rong.
alwhite
I’ve said it before but it bears repeating – Pawlenty is an amoral, vacuous, empty suit. His administration would be peopled with the worst of the worst in order to curry favor with the wingnuts. He would have no compassion & no compunction about fucking over the poor, the disenfranchised and the weak. And he would do it with that bland, simpleton smile pasted firmly in place ‘cuz hes just a nice guy.
The banality of evil.
Mitt at least appears to have a soul & was once capable of actual compassion and governance. Hell, even Batshit Bachmann would be better for the country simply because her personality makes the crazy so obvious.
Maybe it is just the Eyeore in me but, if things are as bad next fall as the White House is predicting, you may want to be very careful what you wish for in the way of Republican nominee. They might be our next President. (Big Daddy Bush was seen as unbeatable around this time in his first term).
Villago Delenda Est
@Catsy:
The visceral hatred of Clinton was based on this notion as well…somehow, the White House became the exclusive property of the GOP during the 80’s. Any Democrat, regardless of policy positions, skin color, sexual behavior, or financial status is an “usurper” in their view.
It’s funny how the Democrats, after owning the White House for 20 years under FDR and Truman didn’t think that Eisenhower was an “usurper” for occupying that sacred ground. But then again, Eisenhower had absolutely no intention of rolling back Social Security. Which is why he’d be derided mercilessly as a RINO in today’s crazed fascist GOP.
Elie
@Dream On:
I agree. He and Hunstsman are Mormons. Not going to happen. As bad as the evangelicals are, the Mormons make that look like play time. Cult is only a mild term that I would use to describe this group. A violent and nefarious cult at that. No way.
Davis X. Machina
@Villago Delenda Est: It’s atavistic habits of mind, bastard versions of 17th c. absolutism and divine-right monarchy. Your basic Republican is a monarchist. And the strangest word-journey in politics isn’t what’s happened to the word ‘liberal’ over the last century and a half — it’s what happened to the word ‘republican’. They don’t actually espouse or want a republic.
If you want to understand Republicans, you want to study your Bossuet, not your Madison and Hamilton and Jay…
“God establishes kings as his ministers, and reigns through them over the people.” The presumption is if his ministers are not Godly, they’re presumptively not the Lord’s anointed, and so usurpers.
(Actual absolutists and divine-right theorists ran this backwards — you had to obey the (drinkin’, whorin’) sovereign even if he’s manifestly not Godly, because of Who put him on the throne, and Whose judgement you don’t get to challenge. This only kicks in when there’s a Republican president.)
Villago Delenda Est
@Davis X. Machina:
Sideshow Bob had it right. Many Americans want to be ruled, not to help govern.
Davis X. Machina
@Villago Delenda Est: I think the hankering after kings will turn out some day to be shown to be genetic.
Self-government is after all a species of work, and work is our punishment for eating of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Ghanima Atreides
@Catsy: wyldpirate would be punching too far out of his intellectual weight class to make me bleed, sowwy.
i must admit a certain dark and bittersweet pleasure in shredding the flabby american idealism and puffy western culture chauvinism of the juicer commentariat.
it partly assuages the privileged class guilt of my upbringing.
Villago Delenda Est
@Davis X. Machina:
It all comes back to that fucked up monotheism, just about every single fucking time.
shortstop
@Davis X. Machina: You may be right.
Ghanima Atreides
@jwb:
they have already sworn a mutual admiration pact.
Bachman fails if Palin is on the ticket. She doesnt have the Palin name recognition or the fundage (SarahPac) in place…no star power.
Cris (without an H)
Paul’s real fantasy is that the Republican party can be purged of big-government RINOs — which in his mind, is pretty much everybody.
Cris (without an H)
@jwb: sorry, I was trying to agree with you there
Ghanima Atreides
@shortstop: he is right.
Cris (without an H)
You’ve been watching Game of Thrones, haven’t you?
Villago Delenda Est
@Ghanima Atreides:
Yeah, but when push comes to shove in Tampa, that “mutual admiration pact” becomes nothing more than a scrap of paper.
All the sudden, it’s June 22nd, and the panzers are rolling across the frontier, and the skies are full of Stukas.
Davis X. Machina
@Cris (without an H): Nope. Restoration.
jwb
@Villago Delenda Est: FDR was already a usurper and a class traitor.
jwb
@Ghanima Atreides: I don’t think Bachmann would be anyone’s VP choice. But I say odds favor Bachmann over Palin simply because Palin will wait too long to enter allowing Bachmann to establish a large beachhead. Palin might still take it if the money pivots to her once it becomes clear that Romney can’t beat Bachmann on his own. The big, desperate moves won’t happen until after Romney gets trounced in South Carolina.
shortstop
@Davis X. Machina: Oh, my, the horror. I’m pretty sure I wasn’t supposed to laugh out loud during Meg Ryan’s selfless caesarean suicide scene, but that script was a crime against humanity.
Nomad
@Ash Can:
[insert nominee name] will be forced to go Token: Batshit or Cain
Davis X. Machina
@shortstop: Is there anything a Meg Ryan caesarean suicide scene doesn’t improve?
One of my favorite “The hell with the actors! Screw the script! Just look at all the money up there on the screen!” movies.
Ghanima Atreides
@jwb: hmmm….you might be right….but when does Palin have to declare to be on the ballot for the Iowa primary?
Anne Laurie
@alwhite:
For the record: Not when you look him in the eyes, and no he wasn’t. Willard is a sociopath — a politician who not only tortured the family dog in front of his kids, he thought it was “funny” to brag about doing so to the voters afterwards. Our own Peoples’ Republic (Commonwealth, actually) occasionally forced him to act as if he cared about the rest of us meatpuppets, and he had the GHWB uppah-claaaaausse instincts to appoint people smarter than himself to do some of the grunt work of governing. Two tiring years of being forced to pretend that he should have to ‘campaign’ for the votes of us Lessers, and not just stroll to an unchallenged kingship, are not going to improve Romney’s temperament, but if he gets progressively meaner & less respectful as the GOPernaut juggers along, that’s only going to make the hardcore Spite Party voters love him more.
I’m still 96% sure Romney’s going to be the 2012 Republican candidate. My only surcease is that it’s looking like he’s going to get stuck with either the Hermanator(tm) or Bachmann Turner Diaries Overdrive as his “partner”, and watching Willard be forced to share a podium with either of those two is arse-deep in comic potential.
Ghanima Atreides
@Anne Laurie:
he is still going to be a mormon. the only thing that will make the teabaggers sign on to Romney is if the polls show he can beat Obama.
I dont see that happening.
and plenty of independents wont vote for a mormon either.
i think a scientologist will be elected before America ever elects a mormon president.
sdhays
@Ghanima Atreides:
That’s over the top. I’ve known several Mormons and they’re all fine, normal people and completely capable of leaving the church if that’s where life leads them. The people saying they’re a “cult” etc. are being bigoted. I have no doubt that there are some cult-like Mormon (descendant) churches in Utah and the West, just as the Westboro Baptist Church is “Baptist”. Mainstream Mormons believe things that I think are crazy, but so do Baptists. Neither is a cult or deserve to be compared to Scientology.
I’m skeptical that Romney’s Mormonism will sink him for the nomination. I’m sure it will cause some gnashing of teeth, but the thing is, issues really don’t matter that much to the Republican base voter (as opposed to the Republican money base, which cares only about #1 – making themselves richer); it’s all about the tribe. If it becomes clear that Romney is going to be the nominee, he will be accepted into the tribe and the Mormon “problem” will just not be talked about. If Fox News refuses to mention that Romney’s a Mormon or heavily downplays it, Republicans who say that they wouldn’t vote for Mormon will just pretend not to know about Romney’s faith.
Now, are there enough people who actually would make the candidate’s religion the #1 criteria in voting to prevent Mitt from winning the nomination? I don’t know. It will certainly hurt him in the South, but it might not cost him California, New York, Illinois, etc, and that’s what you really need to get the nomination.
I don’t see anyone who can plausibly take Romney right now. Bachman might be able to do it; she’s crazy like Palin, but she’s nowhere near as lazy as Palin is. She’s going to be the serious Palin; I think she truly believes that God told her to run and she’s not going to embarrass Him (at least using her definition of “embarrass”). Pawlenty did nothing to earn either national moderates’ or national tea partier’s respect while he was Governor of Minnesota; when you ask the question “What makes Tim Pawlenty think he can be President?”, you really can’t answer that question, other than the less than satisfying “because he was dropped on his head as a child”.
Mitt’s vulnerabilities stretch on for miles, but I’m skeptical that his vulnerabilities are going to be his downfall, at least for the nomination. Another candidate has to step up. Otherwise, the Republican children will just do as Daddy Moneybags says and will vote for Romney, just as they did for the hated John McCain.
Ghanima Atreides
@sdhays: /yawn
This isn’t about what i think of mormons….its about what the conservative base (particularily the core WEC constituency) think about mormons.
Membah this?
In 2008 the republican vote was 59,934,814. Subtract 31,000,000 and Romney doesnt have a snoballs chance in hell.
The democratic vote was 69,456,897.
Do the maffs. ;)
The GOP needs to GAIN 10,000,000 to beat Obama, and any LOSS of votes is going to guarantee Obama’s second term.
Now, not all 31,000,000 WECs will stay home on election day because Romney is a mormon….but any that do put the GOP farther into an electoral hole.
Ghanima Atreides
@sdhays: and that is why…i think Palin is just dancing at point. why should she sign on to the work of running for president…when she can perhaps scare the GOP elites into offering her co-billing with Romney.
I think Palin is stealth running for the VP slot.
Shes got Rove by the short hairs this time around.