President Obama continues his assault on John Aravosis and the gay community:
The Obama administration is set on Friday to issue policy guidance to states expanding their ability to offer same-sex couples the same protections afforded to straight couples when they receive long-term care under Medicaid, the Washington Blade has learned exclusively.
Under the new guidance, dated June 10, states have the option to allow healthy partners in a same-sex relationship to keep their homes while their partners are receiving support for long-term care under Medicaid, such as care in a nursing home.
The fact that President Obama’s administration is doing this in the month they proclaimed LGBT Pride Month is simply further proof that they hate gay people. Gays everywhere should heed Americablog’s call, and refuse to donate to Democrats so someone like this can win.
AxelFoley
Anything from Clarknt67 over at GOS?
[crickets]
No?
Greenwald?
[more crickets]
Not a thing?
I’m shocked–SHOCKED–I tell you.
Yutsano
Yesbut…
HE REFUSED TO END DADT ON DAY ONE WITH AN EXECUTIVE ORDER!! HE USED VICIOUS AND LIBELOUS ARGUMENTS TO DEFEND DOMA!! TRAITOR!! SELLOUT!! UPPITY NI*(clang)!!
Gay men are some of the biggest racists on the planet. Bar none. A white gay man can declare openly he’ll only date other white men and few if any bat an eyelash. It gets pretty ugly and sickening.
Tom Hilton
And you Obots probably think this makes up for Obama passing DOMA and instituting DADT. Typical.
Villago Delenda Est
Well, this is minor administrivia that no one but the utter asshats from AFA pay any attention to, so you have that.
The Ancient Randonneur
I’m sure it won’t be good enough because it only ALLOWS states to do this, it doesn’t mandate it. All the folks in “Real America” still won’t be covered.
beltane
Wow, Americablog. I haven’t visited that site since 2008, when it started to devolve into insanity. Speaking of which, has anyone heard from David Sirota lately?
david mizner
Damn progressives trying to use what little leverage they have. Didn’t they hear they’re supposed to make like the Human Rights Campaign — just hop on board the O-train and and hand over the passcode to the GAY-T-M.
david mizner
@AxelFoley:
Clark’s very fair when it comes to giving the Obama administration credit for its good moves.
As for Greenwald, he only write about gay rights occasionally — not his issue.
In short: stop bitching about bloggers not being sufficiently fawning of Pres.
Martin
Yeah, well, Obama sat next to Kobe at a basketball game once, so clearly he’s a homophobe. This policy guidance is just words, man!
taylormattd
I knew you would summon people like mizner with this post.
@david mizner: So anyway, this is totally bad news for the gay community, amirte?
Or it’s too little.
Or it’s too late.
Or it’s meaningless because he hasn’t announced his support for gay marriage yet.
Or Donnie Mcclurkin.
Yutsano
@david mizner: Idiot. What leverage do you get by standing out in the street screaming by yourself? The HRC has done a shit ton of good work over the years supporting many different LBGT causes. If they recognize that supporting Obama furthers their case, so fucking what? Should they just remain as pure as you and get nothing done but still feel proud of their purity? Get off my cause, you ain’t helping.
taylormattd
@david mizner: Why should left wing blogs decline to comment about left wing bloggers like you, Aravosis, Jane, Greenwald, etc, most of whom have been on a 24/7 jihad against Obama since 2007?
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Yutsano:
Fixt.
Seriously, I get your point, but sexuality, racial attitudes, and sexual attraction are so complex and mixed up. Would it be more accurate just to say that lots of gay men are more willing to express such ideas openly than straight men (or women), even if roughly the same proportions of gays and straights are willing to only date whites?
david mizner
@taylormattd:
Of course this is a good move. And overall Obama’s been decent on gay rights, especially compared to, say, the economy or war and peace.
But I’m not about to blast or mock people, especially gay people, for trying to use their leverage to get better LGTB policy, whether it’s by withholding donations or heckling Pres at fundraisers.
ruemara
Since Obama refuses to be gay while at the bully pulpit pledging to socialism, tofu and puppies, I think I’ll vote for Ron PaulNaderKucinich instead.
Huckster
This is so what a moderate Republican would do
Yutsano
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: Better way of saying it, but the fact that a gay man can just spout off a racist attitude like that with little to no consequence is really troubling. It’s like we iz not learning.
david mizner
@Yutsano:
Am I racist, though, like those evil gays?
Malinowski
Are there still people who even read emo-prog blogs? I thought Greenwald, Sirota, Daou and Aravosis had all joined the foreign legion as much as anyone cares what they say anymore.
aisce
@AxelFoley:
lol. honestly, you’re sicker than the professional left. fuck the haters like aravosis with a rusty pitchfork (though I bet his masochistic ass would probably like it), but silly internet dorks slay me. you sure did nail clarknt67! congratulations! and he has a number in his name, so you just know he’s a big shot player in this mad, mad world of ours.
Admiral_Komack
@david mizner:
AxelFoley:
David Mizner haz a sad.
Keep up the good work.
david mizner
@taylormattd:
Do you really think Clark is unfair to the Pres on these issues?
Mnemosyne
@david mizner:
Yes, I’m sure the only reason the Obama administration made this move is because progressives like John Aravosis called them bigots and homophobes.
It’s weird how you guys simultaneously claim to have ultimate power and no power whatsoever. It’s yet another thing you have in common with the teabaggers.
ruemara
Take me out of moderation! Why do you censor criticism of Obama, you fawning Obot!
J.R.
I’m sorry but I’m not going to bend down and kiss the president’s feet because his Health Department issued a “policy guidance” giving states the “option” of allowing sick gay people’s partners of keeping their home if they go into a nursing home.
This President, on his own terms, has achieved great progress for LGBT Americans. But we can’t lower the bar so much that a sternly worded letter must be praised as the Gay Civil Rights Act of 2011.
Repealing DOMA will make all these piecemeal half-solutions moot. Anything short of full equality is a compromise.
Tim, Interrupted
@Yutsano:
Wow. Where does this come from? Seriously, I’m kind of appalled at what you write here. BUT, maybe I’m wrong…can you provide some links to studies or polls backing your, uh…gross and seemingly homophobic/racist generalization?
Thanks.
NR
Actually, no, it’s you guys who claim that about the “professional left.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
What took him so long? He’s only doing this so close to the election to try to fool the base– AGAIN!–and you O-bot sheeple are going to fall for it again, aren’t you? Pathetic. President Howard Rodham Kucinich-Bartlett would’ve passed gay marriage by executive fiat, and hit James Inhofe with a chair at the first SOTU. But that reality is too much for you people to admit to.
You sheeple keep pretending your “The One” gives shit about anybody but banksters. Pathetic.
Mnemosyne
@david mizner:
Psst. In case you missed it, Yutsano’s gay. You may not want to play the homophobe card here lest you look like even more of a whiner.
jnfr
@beltane:
Sirota has a morning radio show on Denver’s progressive AM station. I don’t hear him usually, since I do NPR that time of day. But he’s around :)
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@Yutsano: I feel you. Seems like it hurts more when members of our own identity group are bad-example shitheels than when random others are. I feel the same way when I see other Jews saying racist or homophobic things: Hey! We’re supposed to be better than Those People!
Just Some Fuckhead
Thank you for saying this, John. We can’t let these eleven gay racists swing the election for the only Republican candidate of color.
Tim, Interrupted
@aisce:
homophobe/hater alert on aisle 7! Clean up please.
JonF
I guess Aravosis is still hoping for a GOP ticket of Lindsey Graham/David Dreier ’12..aka “A dick sticking out of every closet?”
Blue Neponset
@Mnemosyne: Don’t forget that lovely Teabagger tactic of demanding orthodoxy and shunning dissenters. That is something you and a lot of other seem to have in common with the Teabaggers.
I for one am glad John Aravosis & Co. are speaking their minds. The day the Democratic Party isn’t big enough to include Aravosis and his ilk is the day I register as an independent.
david mizner
@Mnemosyne:
? I didn’t call him a homophobe, although being gay would hardly make him immune to that affliction.
I merely called him out for saying something stupid.
Chris
@Tim, Interrupted:
Uh… WTF?
You might as well say “black people are some of the biggest homophobes on the planet.”
Mnemosyne
@NR:
Yes, progressives have no power or influence whatsoever, which is why Glenn Greenwald and Jane Hamsher are constantly on MSNBC.
There are a lot of congresspeople who would love to be “ignored” by the media the same way that Greenwald and Hamsher are.
taylormattd
@david mizner: You should try reading my comments which don’t say a single word about Clark. I recommend many, maybe even most of his diaries. If you want to know why someone else is bitching about Clark, perhaps you should ask the person who was doing so, as opposed to me.
ruemara
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:
last person to call me a n**ger. Beloved gay woman who was nursing a crush and p.o. I wasn’t going to ditch my bf for her. It’s just a bit surprising, but I’ve learned my lesson from other incidents within the community like that. We are all blind to our own prejudices, so don’t get all high and mighty about your minority status. I forgave her, but she never forgave herself, so we don’t speak anymore. I think she hurt herself more than she hurt me.
Yutsano
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice: Try being gay AND Jewish (or half in my case), no matter where you are you end up being the token something somewhere. It does make for interesting conversations though, especially when no one realizes it.
@Mnemosyne: Oh I dunno, this is more fun like this. :) Plus I’m off to be ebil gubmint worker now so I’m running out of time anyway.
taylormattd
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: lawl.
shortstop
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
This is the funniest thing so far in a very (often unintentionally) funny thread.
david mizner
@taylormattd:
Ah, okay, so you were pretending to disagree with me. Wouldn’t be the first time.
Mattminus
@Yutsano:
This is a pretty fucking dumb thing to say. For one, you’re making some pretty broad race based generalizations yourself.
Second, I’m not so sure that who you’re attracted to can be racist. I’ve known all kinds of people with all kinds of preferences. Some that were only attracted to their own race, some that would never date their own race. I wouldn’t call any of them racist. The shlong wants what it wants.
david mizner
I suppose the author of this comment is gay too.
“fuck the haters like aravosis with a rusty pitchfork (though I bet his masochistic ass would probably like it)”
Yikes.
Tonal Crow
Oh boy, this bullshit again.
Just Some Fuckhead
@taylormattd:
Awesome, we’ve gone from Aravosis to The Great Villians Of The Left Blogosphere. Can I get a Nader? Nader. Nader.
Mnemosyne
@david mizner:
Yutsano is also not white, as you may have picked up from his name. But you’re right, I’m sure he doesn’t know anything about racism in the gay community.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Tonal Crow:
Heh.
NR
@Mnemosyne: Any time progressive critics of the administration get mentioned here, there’s always the same chorus: They’re irrelevant, unimportant, they have no power whatsoever.
And yet somehow, they are deemed so dangerous that they must be attacked over and over again, to the level of obsession.
The disconnect is simply amazing.
Chinn Romney
@AxelFoley:
Yes Axel, the fact that Greenwald hasn’t responded to some previously unknown, underground special interest Rag, about a policy that hasn’t even been formally released, the instant it’s released, proves beyond doubt that he’s in the advanced stages of Obama Derangement Syndrome.
It’s so unlike Glen, knowing that he’s, you know, one of them, to turn his back on his peoples. Watching him doggedly pursue those bogus themes of an irresponsible media and the hypocrisy of all DC pols, including your beloved Boy, really fries me. He should be kissing the Big O’s ass and begging for forgiveness.
You’re right, he’s too chicken. That’s one of the first things one notices about Greenwald, his lack of spine. Unlike our Fearless leader, who never backs down.
chopper
@Yutsano:
i’m a chinese hindu-speaking communist gay black woman. try that one on for size.
Valdivia
@Yutsano:
ha! being a female latina jew I know how you feel! :)
Just Some Fuckhead
@Tim, Interrupted:
Quit being a racist douchebag, you prissy little queen.
Mnemosyne
@NR:
You may want to read those choruses more closely. You seem to be confused about the difference between being a large voting block and being influential beyond the size of your actual voting block.
Internet “progressives” like Aravosis are one of the above. Can you guess which one it is?
taylormattd
@J.R.: sternlywordedletter hippiepuching thrownunderbus linuslucyfootball slapintheface tweedledeetweedledumb corporatecorporatecorporate bullypulpit justwordsnoaction issuesnotpersonalities killthebill publicopshun leeedership claplouder badnegotiator obamabot cult
Comrade Colette Collaboratrice
@chopper:
Yeah, but are you also Jewish and transgendered? ‘Cause if not, how can I take anything you say as an authentic expression of victimhood?
Mnemosyne
@Chinn Romney:
I sure am glad that Obama’s critics are never influenced by racism.
taylormattd
@david mizner: Go Edwards!! EENR FOREVAR!
Ronbo
I believe this should read, “Shaddup you fuckin faks, you should be happy with crumbs!”
Equality as defined by our Constitution does not allow for second-class citizens. Even black people can get married. (how progressive!) Obama, and many of the commenters on this site, are pure bigots. Do you really think GLBT Americans are only 1/4 citizen worthy of limited rights? That bigotry.
Suffern ACE
I’m happy just to keep this in perspective. I’d be insulted if the president decided to hold a parade and what is a minor policy announcement. Glad to move a step or two forward when things like the Governor in Wisconsin signing away hospital visitation rights that were so recently earned is still on my mind.
Fuck the rest who just want to ruin my buzz, which would just wear off on its own.
+0.25
pamelabrown
@AxelFoley:
Thank you [email protected]david mizner:
david, I don’t think Clark is fair and his posters are worse. The main ones are the very same who have behaved atrociously in black kos diaries which, to me, denotes bigotry and racism. I, a gay activist, feel uncomfortable in his diaries. It has nothing to do with “botism” but more to do with how to best effect positive change via outreach. More Gandhi than flame thrower.
The sad thing is that basically we hold the same views but disagree on the methods.
P.S. Straight people should know that there is a segment of the gay community that is not only bigoted re: people of color but also against the transgendered. While anecdotal, my experience weighs heavily on gay, white, economically secure men.
P.S. Dan Choi, the “hero”. I totally expect him to eventually admit he’s a log cabin republican. Bottom line: we need more builders than destroyers.
Corner Stone
I always thought this was a holdover from his childhood. Someone would call him a “Yutz!” and he’d respond “I know”.
eemom
lmao here.
On a sane blog, this would have been a nice quiet little thread about a rare bit of good news.
madmatt
“OPTIONAL” which means hating gays is still allowed..the GUIDANCE is merely a way to suck up to the Gay Rights groups without actually DOING anything.
aisce
@david mizner:
i think captain martyr aravosis will weather it just fine. if he wants to escalate the rhetoric and wallow in the gutter, it can go both ways.
fuck anybody who dares call our president a bigot or an enemy of human rights. fuck. them. they’re lower than dirt.
Chinn Romney
@Mnemosyne:
Emphasis is entirely yours, my love. Don’t care one whit if you believe me, but race never entered into it as I was typing that. For those who are truly offended – as opposed to the phonies – I apologize.
Dr. Squid
@Blue Neponset: Wasn’t aware that Aravosis’ tendency to banninate anyone who questions him was a sign of being a Great Progressive while criticizing him for said banninations is so much Teabaggerism.
Malinowski
@david mizner:
Edwards was lying sociopath. Please quit taking your permanent cognitive dissonance out on the rest of us.
Also: get some style. Your online picture are outright creepy.
boss bitch
We’re on the same side people. FFS!
Dr. Squid
@taylormattd: Yeah, well I guess we all look the same.
Malinowski
@david mizner:
Edwards was lying sociopath. Please quit taking your permanent cognitive dissonance out on the rest of us.
Also: get some style, brush your damn hair and teeth. Your online pictures are outright creepy.
david mizner
@aisce:
Weather what just fine? The rusty pitchfork that you want to stick in his ass?
Corner Stone
@Just Some Fuckhead: Damn. Never would’ve expected this kind of loathing from a fellow gay man not named taylormattd.
taylormattd
@Just Some Fuckhead: Why would I like Aravosis? He is a warmongering recent republican who, imo, is also anti-trans. Fuck him.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
This is great news! Obama is a 1000% better than Bush (and ANY of the GOP candidates, past and present) and 100% better than Clinton on gay issues.
different church-lady
@eemom:
Wait… there are sane blogs?
chopper
well, mizner has a sad, so good on obama.
pamelabrown
@david mizner:
Please david, don’t race bait. You’re better than that. Race baiting is a form of dismissal, just like being labeled an “Obamabot”. Discussion is on total shut-down.
Corner Stone
@pamelabrown:
Tribal marking is rampant here. The difference is that being labeled an Obot is usually self-referential and praised by the in-group.
It’s the other tags that get hung on people that shut down discussion and debate.
david mizner
@pamelabrown:
Race bait? What are you talking about?
N W Barcus
I don’t get this hysterical and hyperbolic reaction on the part of Cole. What is it about queer rights issues that compels him to improvise a straw man out of a few wisps of straw?
JC, you can lash out at those of us who criticize Obama for backing off of his campaign pledges of being a “forceful advocate” of equal rights for queers, but you can’t speak for us. In what form of democracy does having your voice require that our voices shouldn’t be heard and our votes shouldn’t count? You’re probably just another of those privileged “moderates” that Martin Luther King spoke of in his last speeches, the ones who were a greater obstacle to social justice than reactionary racist thugs.
FDR is famously said to have told visiting progressives that he agreed with their goals, but that they would have to keep up the pressure so he was compelled to implement them as well. Obama’s said the same thing. Dissatisfaction and dissent are a necessary part of democracy and change, and it’s not unlikely that the administration’s recent progressive moves on DOMA and DADT are the result of that very process.
david mizner
@david mizner:
To be clear, I was responding to this comment:
“Gay men are some of the biggest racists on the planet.”
Which suggests that Aravosis’s criticism of Obama grows out of his racism. Yes, someone was race-baiting but it wasn’t me.
shortstop
Is it wrong to still be laughing at the image of President Howard Rodham Kucinich-Bartlett hitting Inhofe with a chair at the SOTU? Or, more precisely, at someone sputteringly insisting that he would have done so?
Mnemosyne
@Chinn Romney:
Yes, I can completely believe that someone in 2011 wouldn’t realize that referring to an African-American man as a “boy” would possibly be offensive. If he had been in a coma for the past 50 years or so.
Mnemosyne
@N W Barcus:
I can’t speak for Cole, but what bugs me is the insistence on the part of a lot of Obama’s critics that any failure to progress more quickly is due to Obama’s personal homophobia and hatred of gay people.
You can be critical of the slowness of the progress without insisting that Obama is personally holding progress back because he hates gay people. And, yes, we have had multiple people here who claimed that, though the most recent one has thankfully been banned.
taylormattd
Pamela, mizner wasn’t race baiting. He was responding to someone else’s comment, the I think the blockquote failed
Arturo
Goodness indeed. Another non-starter to get the ignorant rubes to think the Obama Administration is doing something for the gays. Just like his economic programs have convinced the nitwits that we are in full economic recovery.
Those of us who work for a living have not seen the recovery yet. But, I hear tell that the non-existent recovery is not as healthy as the Bankers and Media tell us at every opportunity. The Obots are merely Republican-lite. They don’t realize that the Reps and Dems are on the same team – the banker’s team. Their leader, The Fed, has them all well in tow.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mnemosyne:
Thank for for taking such a forceful stand against something that isn’t actually happening here. I know it isn’t easy arguing with the voices in yer head while yer talking to various strangers on the internet.
Keith G
@Yutsano:
That type of grandly general statement may well reflect your experiences, but in the universal set of white gay male Americans there is (by my experience) more variation than your model suggests. There have been issues in the Gay community and bias in its many forms certainly is among them – and jeebus knows that some queers (said lovingly by an insider) have rather peculiar check lists for potential romantic partners. Are all of those checklists due to racist?
I do not know.
pamelabrown
@david mizner:
Your comment, #18, I believe, “Am I racist, though, like the EVIL (my caps) gays” struck me wrong. I would never accuse you of racism, david, still I, a white gay, am just saying your comment was inflammatory.
Marc McKenzie
@Mnemosyne:
“Itās weird how you guys simultaneously claim to have ultimate power and no power whatsoever. Itās yet another thing you have in common with the teabaggers.”
Close, but remember–the Teabaggers went out there and voted. They didn’t stay home pouting, “Not getting my vote! I’m sending a message! Not a dime’s worth of difference!”
Just sayin’….
Mnemosyne
@Just Some Fuckhead:
It’s not like referring to the president as a “boy” could possibly be construed as racist, amirite? It’s not like there’s any kind of history behind it or anything.
boss bitch
@Mnemosyne:
And I’ve seen these same people say that personal behavior has nothing to do with a politicians policy.
Marc McKenzie
@Ronbo:
Ronbo…are you really this dumb? Is it genetic? Or did you have to really work at it?
Jeezus….
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mnemosyne:
He said it, you called him on it, he apologized. Should we ban him for a week to make sure he’s really sorry?
cat48
The Christian News Network wrote that “This is the most ‘homosexualized’ Administration in History….” This was in response to the Proclamation. Can’t wait to see what they call it in response to this. heh
Corner Stone
@Mnemosyne:
What’s actually weird about this is when diehard supporters tell us the most powerful man on the planet is powerless to effect change, and then when something gets passed by Congress it somehow automatically goes up on the president’s ledger for accounting purposes.
“What do you expect him to dooOOoOooo?”
“He got such and such passed didn’t he!?”
Marc McKenzie
“This is great news! Obama is a 1000% better than Bush (and ANY of the GOP candidates, past and present) and 100% better than Clinton on gay issues.”
Perhaps, but haven’t you heard? According to David Swanson, Hamsher, GG, and some who post on progressive blogs, he’s WORSE than Bush.
Really–I’m not kidding.
Of course, why anyone would think that….nah, I can’t go there. I just got back from SUPER 8 and I’m enjoying the positive buzz I got from seeing it. But reading some of these comments….well, it’s killing it. Better stop now.
kc
Jesus, look at the carnage here. Strawcorpses everywhere . . .
Arturo
@N W Barcus: We need to hear more from you. I like how you think. Too bad so very many Democrats have morphed into Republican-lite. Why do they think they can constantly move to the right AND still call themselves Democrats? Nixon would be considered a flaming liberal by a lot of the regulars on this so-called Democratic site.
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
@Yutsano: I’m glad that someone finally “came out of the closet”, as it were, and addressed this. It’s true. I lived in the Castro for a while and everyone there hated blacks, poor people and women, in that order.
And the number of them who were registered Republicans would floor most of you.
Mnemosyne
@Just Some Fuckhead:
So you acknowledge that it actually happened and was not “one of the voices in my head”?
He apologized, so fair enough. It’s your pretending that his apology means that he never said it at all and I made the whole thing up out of whole cloth that’s the problem here.
Rorgg
@Yutsano: What’s that have to do with gay? And is it actually considered racist?
I have dated a black woman in the past, but in general, my guess is that even if I end up on the market again, I probably wouldn’t, just because that’s not how my personal tastes run.
Sexual attraction’s just what it is. If it falls on a subset of the population … well, so be it, be it for men, redheads, or pale women.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mnemosyne: SAY. SHH. TO. THE. VOICES.
I’m not pretending anything, you witless feck. I’m simply pointing out yer doing a standup job denouncing folks that aren’t actually here. Did I miss the part where C. Romney said Obama hates gay people?
BTD
Cole is laughing at all of you.
Just Some Fuckhead
@BTD:
He’ll stop laughing when he falls down again.
Mnemosyne
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Okay, I know this is complicated, but try to follow along:
There is a strong feeling in the gay community that black people hate gay people. It is a feeling that, unfortunately, has some truth.
Obama is black.
People complaining in this thread about how Obama’s not moving quickly enough on gay rights just accidentally happen to use words that emphasize that he’s black. But I’m sure that’s all a total coincidence, right?
And on that note, the voices in my head are saying it’s time for lunch and that there’s a huge project on our desk that has to get done when we return, so you’re going to have to get along without further contributions from us, I’m afraid.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Mnemosyne:
So we’re assuming C. Romney is gay? I didn’t pick up on that but I’ve got lousy gaydar. I still can’t believe Neil Patrick Harris is gay.
Brachiator
@david mizner:
I will happily blast them. How is it getting better policy? Given the attempts by Republicans to roll back gay rights at the state and local level, this strategy of attacking the Obama administration is stupid, short-sighted and suicidal.
@Yutsano:
It gets pretty ugly and sickening. I take your point, but your example is weak in some ways. Who you choose to date is arbitrary and quixotic, not really much subject to review. But how those preferences are expressed in public can be noxious and can undermine an entire community.
I can recall some gays, happy that West Hollywood was becoming more or less an official gay enclave with political representation, then turn around and hint (or worse) that West Hollywood should be a white gay community.
toujoursdan
Oh for goodness sake, for every white gay guy I’ve met who is only into other white guys, I’ve met other white guys who only want to date black or Asian guys. There are even clubs for men who are have preferences toward men of another race, like Black and White Men Together. White guys exclusively into Asians are often called “rice queens” which may or may not be derogatory depending on the context.
More than once I’ve approached someone I was attracted to only to find out I’m the wrong race, or too muscular, or too hairy, tall or whatever.
Of course there are racists in the gay community. Being gay doesn’t make one exempt from stupidity. But I’m not convinced that race-based dating preferences are an expression of racism any more than any other physical preference represents a bigotry. I don’t go around accusing twenty-year-old men of ageism if they don’t want to date a man in his fifties. What humans find physically attractive is complex.
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
The additional complication here is that some gays assume that gay means white gays, making gay society a distorted mirror of the larger society in which nonwhites can ride along as long as they shut up.
The further complication is that some people define themselves as much by their ethnicity as by their sexuality, and then stew in the juices of their bigotry.
There is far less truth to the idea the notion that blacks “hate” gays, but it is a lie that some people happily love to keep alive. And to try to use this to rationalize any anti-Obama crap is sheer, plain, unadulterated bigotry. Let’s see. Obama is black, so he must hate gays just because he is black. What, is homophobia genetic?
And it continues to astound me that some weird political Alzheimer’s always drops on some people’s heads that makes them forget all the gay blacks involved in the Civil Rights movement. Similarly, people don’t know, or forget, or simply cannot comprehend that the Harlem Renaissance was an interracial sexual revolution that involved white, Latino and black gays, or that there were mini-sexual and interracial revolutions during World War II, especially among gay and bisexual women who entered the work force, mixing in ways that surprised a lot of people (including some of the women themselves).
But just as American society always tried to enforce racial segregation and a rigid notion of sexuality, still to this day some people want to insist that there is a gay community over here and a black community over there which has never overlapped in any way, shape or form. It’s a big lie, but some people need to believe it.
And please note, for the sake of the stupid people in the room, that I am in no way ascribing any of this view to you personally.
AxelFoley
@david mizner:
Yeah, whatev, dave.
AxelFoley
@J.R.:
Admiral_Komack
@taylormattd:
Or, until he gets outed by the National Enquirer.
AxelFoley
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Herman Cain’s for gay rights?
Tim, Interrupted
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I am not little!
OzoneR
@david mizner</a
Progressive need leverage against someone doing what they want?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Tim, Interrupted: John, Tim’s saying things I don’t like. Can you ban him again?
OzoneR
1.) Just Words
2.) Just Pandering for Votes
3.) Only Did This Because We Made A Stink
4.) So what, this is what he should do
5.) All of the Above
AxelFoley
@Chinn Romney:
LOL, why not? He usually responds as soon as his name is mentioned.
Who says he should kiss Obama’s ass? Where did I say that? And if he is so fearless in your eyes, why isn’t he putting HIS ass on the line here in the U.S. instead of from his perch in Brazil? Why isn’t he fighting the good fight here?
I see Obama putting his own neck on the line daily, while dealing with a crazy as fuck GOP/Teabagger party, a fucked up media, and members of his own party and the professional left kneecapping him every chance they get, while pussy-ass muhfuckers on the left complain about him not doing enough.
So what is Greenwald doing?
Yeah, thought so.
Tim, Interrupted
@Just Some Fuckhead:
OMG, JSF is ABL!
OzoneR
@NR:
Dangerous? LMFAO, you people aren’t dangerous; pathetic, annoying, dispiriting for no reason, but not dangerous.
Tim, Interrupted
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Also, too: It is clear you want me banned only because I am a proud, un-little, gay, white man of Germanic heritage; thus you are homo/aryan-phobic.
I am writing Cole an email, so just you wait, Mr. Man!
OzoneR
@J.R.:
Compromise…in a representative democracy? The horror
AxelFoley
@eemom:
LOL, my bad.
chopper
@Comrade Colette Collaboratrice:
i didn’t make it through the holocaust in order to be treated that way, kiddo. i’m also a member of the Blind Left-Handed Dentists Without Tonsils of America.
OzoneR
@Ronbo: Equality as defined by our Constitution does not allow for second-class citizens.
Which would explain why the administration has stopped defending DOMA.
@beltane:
who?
Ponies on Ice
Fuck the angry gay left. They’re what, 5% of the population? They demand that EVERYTHING be about GAY GAY GAY people all the time.
These are the same assholes who cried like the girls they are when they don’t get their magic gay pony personally delivered by Obama on a weekly basis.
“Waaaaaah! I want my pony right now! My big gay pony is THE MOST IMPORTANT issue facing the country, because it’s all about ME and MY BIG GAY PONY! Waaaaaah! I just won’t vote for Obama next time, Waaaaaaaaah!”
Just shut the fuck up already. No one cares outside your little gay circle about your goddamn pet cause.
Vlad
@Yutsano:
WTF? Choosing romantic partners based on appearance isn’t racism. Pretty much everybody has preferences as far as appearance are concerned – preferring a particular skin color isn’t discriminatory any more than preferring a particular hair color, or height, or style of dress, or level of muscle tone.
No matter how sensitive and enlightened you may be, if you aren’t physically attracted to a person, then sex with that person is going to suck. You can’t talk yourself into a boner.
DZ
This thread alone makes me fear for our party, if I can say that anymore, in 2012.
celticdragonchick
@pamelabrown:
Unfortunately true.
drkrick
@Arturo:
Perhaps it would be more accurate to say that adoption of the Nixon domestic program would be considered a surprisingly liberal outcome in this day and age. Which is a hell of a lot different than saying anyone thinks that’s a good thing.
celticdragonchick
@Tim, Interrupted:
My Scottish ancestors wanna go medieval on your Saxon/Germanic ancestors.
:)
Tim, Interrupted
@celticdragonchick:
Somebody needs to every few decades, just to prevent another world war for god’s sake. Germans can be cranky. :P
(I can say that; I’m full blooded German from both sides of the family! It’s kind of self-racist, but kind of also true!)
Odie Hugh Manatee
@taylormattd:
You forgot thevealpen.
:)
Allan
@david mizner:
Very well then, I shall mock them instead.
Hardeeharhar what stupid self-centered assholes they are!
Almost as stupid as self-righteous assholes who applaud their masturbatory strategeries like David “I Completely Bought the Bullshit John Edwards Peddled” Mizner.
Skipjack
Sore-winning is pointless in a coalition as fractious as the Democrats. Cole, you are keeping people from ever admitting they could have been wrong. Some of them might take some kind of maximalist approach to policy and drama, but you will have folks suspecting you mean them too when you didn’t. If you are going to name and shame, give a chance to join the righteous.
Really we’ll all need each other not far down the line. Take the latest out of Iraq, where there’s growing noise we’ll be invited to stay longer. Someone who isn’t allowed by their own party to make up for not giving the Administration the benefit of the doubt on an issue like gay rights might also not be in a hurry to give the benefit of the doubt on something like Iraq. All of us want to leave, but many of us will see that it might not quite be time yet. But people can only be convinced if they think you are someone worth hearing out.
ETA: it’s time to forgive people for being taken in by Edwards. Rubbing peoples’ noses in turds doesn’t make them care about the carpet.
David in NYC
@OzoneR:
So, “separate but equal” would be just fine with you?
Fred
Dan Choi tweeted today “more evidence Obama hates us gays”. The professional left then dutifully reported it and renewed their effort to primary Obama and get a real liberal in there like Jane Hamsher.
OzoneR
@David in NYC:
That’s what courts are for. The courts are the branch of government that is supposed to fix the compromises the other branches must make.
When given the choice of separate and unequal and separate but equal, you get the closest to equality you can get, and hope it’s momentum to get you there
or that the courts will rule in your favor. If you believe in the Constitution, they will.
Lysana
@celticdragonchick:
Also bisexuals. I’ve pointed out Dan Savage’s hatred for trans and bi people here more than once. We don’t fit their standards, so we’re disposable unless we sacrifice our needs for their cause. Then when we want our turn, they walk away or worse, spit on us. Barney Frank’s done this, too. Aravosis has demonstrated active transmisogyny to my memory. I don’t know if he’s expressed active biphobia, but the two happen in the same minds so often that I’d be amazed if he wasn’t. It’s called intersectionality and the kyriarchy. And it’s not homophobic to point this out. Especially since most homophobia is really transmisogyny (you’re misusing or disrespecting the male genitalia, therefore, you are evil is the summary of both hatreds). It’s not transmisogyny to say that far too many rich white gay males and lesbians are bi and trans haters. As well as racists.
As for what Obama did, it’s clearly an attempt to improve matters for same-sex couples until DOMA can be properly disposed of. If all he can do is the small things right now, I’d rather see him do them than leave them alone until the big one’s gone. It shows a strength of commitment no other President has to GLBT rights.
Lysana
Prior comment edited to remove the offending male organ. *sighs* I should’ve remembered that!
PanurgeATL
@Vlad:
Ditto. I almost can’t define myself as gay because (to be perfectly blunt) the squares and traditionalists took over the scene a very long time ago, and I only like (and have) long hair. As in so much else, to be a clone is to be a conservative. Any gay scene worthy of the name is no place for male insecurity, IMNSHO.
OzoneR
@Lysana:
In my younger days, I worked at a suicide prevention center and we had a lot of people who were bisexual and trans who felt they were abused by both sides. Especially the bisexuals, whom everyone thought were either gay and afraid to admit it (I’ll admit, I thought that at first) or straight with a nasty fetish.
OzoneR
@N W Barcus:
I think progressives are trying to figure out why the pressure isn’t working (IMO, because they’re not really applying any pressure at all, rather threatening a murder/homicide).
Progressives in the 1930s were successful because there were more of them actively promoting their ideas and their promotions were heard because there was no right wing media machine.
LGBT issues have been more successful because, at least from my point of view, this is an issue people are actively pushing, while no one is going out there lining up for a trillion dollar jobs bill or an end to tax cuts.
OzoneR
This is worth reading
Read more: http://curiouscapitalist.blogs.time.com/2011/06/09/is-rising-unemployment-obamas-fault/#ixzz1OvAouvKH
I think what will be wise is pushing Democrats in Congress into a message of “give us back our majority and we’ll do what we did in 2009-2010, only we’ll do it better”
The only problem I see is we still have the “deficits are causing high unemployment” meme stuck in people’s brains.
Just Some Fuckhead
@OzoneR:
You are a fucking idiot.
Tim, Interrupted
@Just Some Fuckhead:
LOL. True, that.
OzoneR
@Just Some Fuckhead: That’s all you got. lol weak.
Just Some Fuckhead
@OzoneR:
Nick worked at a suicide prevention center also. It’s positively eerie how much you douchebags have in common.
AxelFoley
Can’t you feel the love in this thread?
Christopher Wing
Kinda sad that some people will take whatever little scraps they get instead of demanding that their president do the right thing. Our system is corrupt, and the better of 2 evils is still evil. Obama is a BAD president. Bush was a BAD president. And people who preach that we can’t get away from a 2 party system are simple BAD at democracy.
TG Chicago
So the gay left fought for what they wanted, got it, and now that means that other progressives should bring out the hate machine. Great plan.
Squeaky wheel, guys. It’s not complicated.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Christopher Wing:
1.) Duvarger’s Law
2.) Ask the French, British, and Canadians how a multi-party system has been working out for them.
PhoenixRising
@Marc McKenzie: Close, but rememberāthe Teabaggers went out there and voted. They didnāt stay home pouting, āNot getting my vote! Iām sending a message! Not a dimeās worth of difference!ā
Wait, what? This jumped out among all the poor abused straw laying strewn asunder. Say what you want about Aravois–gawd knows I do, he banned me for calling him some highly justified names–no one is suggesting that he doesn’t encourage Voting.
Siphoning my wallet, no. Voting, yes.
OzoneR
@Just Some Fuckhead: Good for Nick, maybe more people should, it’s a real problem.
OzoneR
@Christopher Wing:
every democracy is essentially a two party system, because there can only be a minority and majority, in multi-party systems, they just form coalitions where they have to deal with the same bullshit, pleasing parties in the coalition.
And I think it’s really sad that you see this as “scraps”
Ronbo
@OzoneR: Lets get the facts straight. The Obama Justice Dept has identified an element of DOMA that they do not support. They continue to enforce DOMA. Remember, there is a difference between saying something and doing something. The Obama Justice Dept continues to enforce DOMA. Facts are important. Headlines can be deceiving.
Ronbo
@OzoneR: Promoting compromise by saying non-equality is OK is just wrong. How about you consider this: One group wants to put you in jail for being a bigot. Another group wants to end your life for being a bigot. Compromis is not torturing you in jail. OzoneR being a bigot is not a jailable or death-sentence qualifing situtation. You can’t compromise inalienable rights, my foolish bigot.
Ronbo
@Marc McKenzie: Obviously, I not smart as you. I can’t draw nymphs with giant breasts and bulging vaginas. I love the pouty lips and big, big eyes. “Love is….” I don’t have the talent to create new, willing and exciting girlfriends on paper. I just don’t know which luscious cartoon girlfried you’ll be drawing/dating tonight.
I live in the real world. Join us when you have both hands free.
Brachiator
@Christopher Wing:
Have you watched the news lately? It’s not about the number of parties. In the UK, the coalition of the conservatives and the Lib Dems is little more than a nightmare, and somehow, despite all the various parties in Canada, the conservative Harper government emerged stronger than ever.
And your “Obama is bad, Bush was bad” mantra makes no sense. I don’t understand how anyone looking at what the GOP is doing at the state level would want to risk unleashing this stuff at the federal level, unless they had a death wish.