It’ll take all your time and money honey you’ll survive:
As states across the country look for ways to trim billions off their spending on Medicaid, New Jersey is garnering particular attention for a proposal that opponents characterize as an unprecedented and draconian attempt to balance the state’s precarious budget on the backs of society’s most vulnerable populations.
The debates taking place in statehouses, clinics and living rooms crystallize the unfortunate truth about economic recessions: Citizens rely most on public services just when the government has the least money to spend on those services.
In New Jersey’s case, changes would mean a parent of two earning more than $103 per week would be ineligible.
Hey- an income of 103 bucks a week for four people is plenty of money to buy insurance. You’ll just have to be savvy! I’m sure Megan McCardle can take the time to give them instructions.
New Jersey’s waiver, which it plans to submit June 30, would drop the income cap for new adult enrollees to about 25 percent of the poverty level. Although current enrollees can stay enrolled, the state estimates 23,000 parents will be denied coverage next year. That’s in addition to 70,000 turned away due to separate 2011 reduction.
“It is the worst health policy decision I’ve seen in my 13 years in the Senate,” said state Sen. Joseph Vitale, while his Democratic colleague in the Assembly, Gordon Johnson, made it personal:
“No one but this anti-working class governor would propose making it difficult for the poorest of the poor to obtain health care coverage,” Johnson said.
Responding to pointed questions from lawmakers about why no detailed breakdown of the savings had been presented, the Department of Human Services on Friday released its estimates. The state projects eligibility cuts will save $17 million to $32 million, while moving patients from fee-for-service plans into managed-care will save up to $40 million. Officials are also counting on $200 million in increased federal funding.
With state revenues falling across the country, almost every governor is seeking to rein in Medicaid costs. But most have focused on dropping services from the benefits package, reducing reimbursement rates or expanding managed-care. Only New Jersey and Arizona have gone as far in turning patients away.
Sociopaths.
arguingwithsignposts
Funny, I haven’t heard about any of these state legislators offering to lower their income, even if in a symbolic way, to show people how “belt-tightening” works. Where is Christie with his $1/year show of support.
Assholes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The fact that a number of conservatives want this nasty thug to run for the White House is darkly hilarious, and gives me some hope for 2012. The Republican base and the elected Tea Baggers are convinced they’ve just got to keep marching right. That proposal to privatize Social Security probably won’t be a flash in the pan. It’s a shame it’s taking so long, but people might just get it through their thick skulls that this is who Republicans are.
Jewish Steel
Two Queen quotes in succession?
Is that allowed?
Do you want to break free or something?
MAJeff
Exactly.
Hunter Gathers
A Chris Christie/Paul Ryan ticket next year would garner 500 electoral votes.
MikeJ
eemom, he’s taunting you now.
HL_guy
I’ve lived in Jersey for 3 years now. Yes, Christie is a sociopath who would rather take your health insurance away than look at you, but the Assembly and Senate are about 60% Democrat. Thus my question is, to any commenters out there who might be able to shed some light, why is such an insane budget proposal not simply dead in its tracks? What vagaries of State governance give the NJ Gov such an inordinate power over budgetary issues?
The guy does a lot of harm unilaterally- killing the Hudson River tunnel project, selling off all the public TV and radio licenses… the legislature seems quite neutered to DO anything in the face of this. What’s up, Jersey?
Mike Kay (True Grit)
Drip. Drip. Drip. Another photo of Weiner’s junk surfaces http://tinyurl.com/3u93z7o
WyldPirate
But the greatest bit of legislation ever passed–the ACA–is going to fix everything, donchaya know, Mr. Cole?
I”ve read it here over and over again so it’s gotta be true.
Then again, maybe we will have to wait for all of the extra people that are going to get thrown out of work with the austerity fetish that is sweeping the nation to stimulate the economy for the sky to start raining all of those wonderful ACA healthcare ponies…
Maude
@HL_guy:
I don’t know the answer to this.
The $103 is gross, not net.
Davis X. Machina
@Hunter Gathers:
Fixed.
Josie
Christie should try living on a minimum wage income. It might be good for his soul and his waistline.
JPL
@Mike Kay (True Grit): Weiner, Weiner, Weiner, This Weiner talk’s spoiling all the fun at every party. I get so bored I could scream. —
JPL
@Josie: He’s only obese because Michelle Obama said to eat healthy. He’s just showing her that he’s a real american.
mclaren
I don’t see why you people are upset. Have any of you actually checked out the eligibility requirements for Medicaid? If you have a car, no Medicaid for you. If you have more than $2000 in possessions (that’s a laptop, a cellphone, and some furniture), no Medicaid for you.
I don’t know about your state, but in the state where I live, if you make $400 a month, that’s too much money to qualify for food stamps.
Want to tell me how anyone can live on $400 a month in America?
Linda Featheringill
@Maude:
The idea of four people living on 103.00 a week is gross. It is also obscene. And depressing. And probably impossible.
mclaren
@HL_guy:
Because all the states are broke and every time they cut their budgets, the state deficits get larger.
This is Keynes’ classic paradox: austerity during an economic recession results in mass layoffs, which decreases aggregate demand, which in turn decreases tax revenues…so the more you cut the state budget, the bigger your budget deficits get. It’s a vicious death spiral, and Keynes pointed out why it was a death spiral back in 1936 in his General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money. Austerity and deficit-cutting is the exact opposite of what you want to do during a massive economic downturn. Apparently we haven’t figured this out yet.
Zach
@HL_guy: My guess is that it’s because this is something that falls under the executive branch rather than the legislative branch in New Jersey. Perhaps the state assembly could pass a law tying the Governor’s hands on Medicaid waivers, but it’s likely that Federal law limits the extent to which they can do this so you don’t wind up with renegade legislatures deciding to end Medicaid and have to wait for the legislative process to work itself out after the Feds deny the waiver.
Maude
@Linda Featheringill:
You can’t even pay rent on that amount.
This would also cut disabled people off from medical care and prescriptions. Dual eligible people can’t pay the Medicare premiums.
Chrisitie thinks it’s cool to be cruel.
Would it be too much to ask that the next time he’s in a copter, we fly him over Afghanistan?
Zach
@mclaren:
This isn’t really the states’ problem. They don’t have the same capacity to run a deficit that the Feds do. Of course there are those of us in states like Maryland that had the foresight to act early, modestly raise taxes, and modestly reduce expenditures to outlast the recession without gravely affecting employment statewide.
This is why the Stimulus grants to states allowing them to run what would otherwise be huge deficits were so important.
I agree with the basic point, though. Here’s the thing about the “belt-tightening” rhetoric. Let’s say I’m the head of a family and we hit tough times. Time to tighten the belt! Do with what we have! Let’s then say someone offers me a huge line of credit at 0.2% APR. The wisest thing to do in that instance is to take as much free money as possible, still try to live within my means, and invest the rest of it, almost inevitably resulting in prosperity in the long run.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
Open Thread, please? Because the most pressing issue of the day is the arrival of Harold Alexander Neal.
Zach
@Maude: “You can’t even pay rent on that amount.”
Don’t you know that all of their food and rent is free anyway? They just spend that $400/month on the lease on the Cadillac, T-bone steaks, and tennis shoes.
Seriously this is what a lot of people think.
jwb
@Mike Kay (True Grit): You’re so dependable.
Villago Delenda Est
@mclaren:
The problem is that Keynes is right next to Marx in the pantheon of utter evil for the current GOP. Keynesianism is akin to soshulism, as far as they are concerned.
Because, obviously, the concern of the Keynesian is for the entire economy, and not just taking care of the top 1%. The Galtian overlords. The true producers. Who shuffle financial paper around to produce…more financial paper.
Yutsano
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I squeed, I admit it. :)
On topic: no way Christie gets this past the feds. In fact a Christie vs Sibelius death match I’d pay money to watch. She’d squish him like a fat grape in an Italian wine press.
jwb
@mclaren: feature, not a bug if you are a Republican and there is a Dem in the White House.
PurpleGirl
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Critter pictures are cute. They are good mood enhancers.
jwb
@Yutsano: That’s the plan, though, isn’t it? Have the Feds force the extra spending so Christie can blame whatever they have to do to raise revenues on the Feds?
Maude
@Zach:
In NJ, if you are Hispanic, you get dirty looks.
People say that they get all the services etc.
Reagan really screwed things up for everyone except the rich.
Maude
@Yutsano:
The Medicaid funding can be cut off by the feds and Christie has a nasty habit of turning away fed funds.
BO_Bill
McDonalds reality report. The food was pretty good today, although the fries were only warm. There is a morbidly obese couple of Hispanic descent bearing tattoos sitting behind me with three children and an infant. The three children are also obese. When these children lower their chins, the roll of fat is probably 3 inches in diameter. The McDonalds is arranged in kind of a race-track geometry and, until a few minutes ago when they left, these children were running around the race track screaming. This person-group has now exited the restaurant and piled into a subcompact car from a border state. The suspension handled it.
The lady cleaning my McDonalds approaches me and asks ‘What is that noise?’ She is referring to the relative quiet we are currently experiencing.
As the Mexican government does not see fit to provide a public health care system for its citizens, it is important for Americans to pick up the slack. I think I am going to get an ice-cream before clocking in to work.
andy
These people are filth. And most of them dare to call themselves Christians…
Yutsano
@jwb: Did Christie get elected Dictator-for-Life in Jersey or something? I’m certain there’s a check out there somewhere keeping him from doing this. And the last thing he needs is yet another federal money spigot cut off. Medicaid pays its bills usually fairly rapidly and efficiently. The doctors and hospitals will certainly notice if that suddenly disappears. Not to mention the dual eligible folks.
poco
@BO_Bill: I think you are at the wrong blog.
Racist a$$holes is that way———->.
Anne Laurie
@Maude:
Of course, ‘releasing 400 pounds of Toxic’ might be considered a violation of the Geneva Conventions…
Anne Laurie
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Awwwwwww!… kitty!
Congratulations! When do you plan to introduce him to your other cats?
Bostondreams
@Villago Delenda Est:
Slightly on topic, but folks here might appreciate these videos. I used them in my Economics class to discuss Keynes vs Hayek.
Fear the Boom and Bust
Fight of the Century, Round Two
I think these do a good job summarizing for folks Keynes and Hayek, though the bias of the creator is evident.
Yutsano
@Anne Laurie: If you follow the photo stream, it seems he already has. And no apparent blood letting as of yet.
Maude
@Anne Laurie:
I just thought of dropping him without a chute and you beat me to it.
Do we hate the Afghans enough to do this?
The sad thing is that NJ was very good on medical care for the less than wealthy. He’s tearing down the social safety net.
I do wonder if he will make the full term.
Josie
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Awwwww. I love the tentative posture of a kitty in his new home. Is that Monster sniffing of him? What kind of reception did he get?
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Anne Laurie: We’re working on that. For short periods of time, I let him wander loose. Other than that, I’m splitting time between them. The kid has quite a set of lungs on him and I can hear him crying from the other end of the house, over the air filtration unit.
quannlace
ahhh, you’re being too kind.
Two different controversies Christie was involved in, that made him look aloof and out-of-touch.
!. His skipping town over Christmas when one of the worst blizzards was predicted (and did) to hit New Jersey.
2.His helicopter ride to see his kid’s baseball game.
Each one he seemed both clueless and nonplussed as to why anyone should have been upset. And used his kids as the excuse for why he had to do it. What a role model.
Yutsano
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
In other words you’re already in love. :)
@quannlace:
Sarah Palin has taught him well.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Josie: This one is of Dirk sniffing him. This is the only one with Harry and Monster.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
Right now, he seems to have Dirk intimidated. The big fluffy coward is hiding under the bed while Harry walks around in front of it looking and meowing at him.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Yutsano: I was in love the first time I found his photo on Petfinder.
Josie
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): OMG. I missed that last one in the photo stream. Monster’s eyes are really expressive. I sense a certain unhappiness with the interloper. This should be interesting.
El Cid
@mclaren:
This can’t be true.
See, in today’s budget and debt ‘debate’, according to what I read and hear from the important people, there is no such thing as revenue.
It does not go up and down, at least not for any good reason.
Federal budgets are only composed of spending. I mean, they’re only composed of social spending of a sort that powerful people don’t like.
There’s no input or revenue side, just that type of spending. So if you cut that, somehow budgets get better, for some or other reason.
If you cut taxes, revenue increases, unless it doesn’t, but the point of all that was cutting taxes.
Besides, as Bush Jr. and conservatives argued before approving those big tax cuts on our most productive citizens (the rich and especially the super-rich), if you have a budget surplus then it means you’ve stolen too many taxes from people and they deserve to have their money back.
So, this is what I’ve learned from current federal budget deficit, debt, and spending discussions:
(1) Talking about revenue is a distraction because we don’t need to talk about what goes in to the federal government, because we don’t, because otherwise people would be talking about that. And they’re not, so it’s not important.
(2) The only way to balance budgets is to cut spending, but the only spending which exists is that from any type of social program that important people know is bad for the economy and which is like old soshullist stuff like from the New Deal and that’s so ancient and people need to get over that, and learn to be thrifty and tighten their belts so that they can be better people.
(3) If somehow a budget gets balanced, or even more so if it has a surplus, then it’s time for new tax cuts, because it’s unfair to take that much money from people.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Josie: The epithet for Michelle Malkin also applies to Monster: Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage. If she weren’t upset about this, she’d just be upset about something else. She’s like having my very own, 6.2 lb. stalker.
jwb
@Bostondreams: I liked the first one better than the second. The rhetoric of the second one was also more than a little out of control: Hayek’s argument as presented in the video is extremely weak and he’s constantly using rhetorical sleights of hand to get out of trouble. To make matters worse, the video presents these as big punches, when in fact if you are paying attention to the argument at all he ends up on his ass, not Keynes. But then again he’s not called Fucking Asshole Hayek for nothing.
Bostondreams
@jwb:
Great points. Interestingly, however, the closing scene in both shows Keynes getting the glory.
I still like the cavity search at the beginning of the second…
Josie
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I used to have one like that. Her name was Macavity, and she hated everyone but me. She beat up all the other cats and intimidated all dogs. She ruled with an iron paw until she finally got old and blind. By then her reputation was so solid that she got by on that. I loved her more than any cat I’ve ever had.
jwb
@Bostondreams: You’ll notice in the second one, however, it is presented as though the fight had been rigged: Keynes gets up from the mat and the match is awarded to him. Later Keynes looks at Hayek and shrugs his shoulders as if it to say, “I don’t know, I thought you’d won.” It’s also riffing on the end of the first Rocky.
The rhetorical point of the scene is that the powers that be want Keynes to win because it serves their interests (this is a point Hayek makes earlier in the video as well just so we don’t miss it) and they have means to make it so. The cavity search is about how Hayek gets no respect; it makes him into the sympathetic character, the little David battling the Goliath of the aristocratic Lord Keynes.
Bostondreams
@jwb:
True, and my students noticed that, thankfully. Both videos have led to some excellent discussions in my economics classes.
R. Porrofatto
For a minute there I thought that was a Republican talking about a Democratic proposal to restore taxes on the wealthy and corporations to what they were during that awful pre-Bush prosperity 90’s.
But then, gosh, there is no such proposal, is there.
Nellcote
Hard to believe New Jersey ranks between CA and NY on the Freedom Map below.
jwb
@Bostondreams: The video is also deeply ironic given who underwrites Austrian economics these days. It also makes me wonder who is paying to make these things, since producing these videos didn’t come cheap.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@R. Porrofatto:
http://cpc.grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=70
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Mike Kay (True Grit): Oh, hell, you got me on that one. I guess I’m more gullible than I thought.
srv
College studies show students today have about 40% less empathy than students 20 years ago.
Perhaps the theme of the future should be “Live and Let Die,” given our visceral reaction to Congressmen trying to outreach to the younger folks in their medium.
Bruce S
There is a fiction in this health care debate. It’s that everyone agrees that people have some basic right to health care. But it’s not true. A craven prick like Chris Christie won’t admit to it in public, but his cohort in this “debate” are crypto-Randian sociopaths who don’t share the basic values that constitute “common decency.” They don’t give a fuck…but they don’t have the balls to admit it. I’d rather conduct this discussion at least on the level playing field of acknowledging the fundamental difference in values.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
those guns and drugs aren’t going to sell themselves. clearly the crime rate is too low, and poor people are at home watching bigasstv, and not surviving by doing the things the state can incarcerate them for. prison-industrial beast like bondholders must be satisfied first.
Caz
So what do all you experts propose be done about soring deficits and debts? You can’t just keep spending at current levels. But every time a cut is proposed, any cut, you liberals cry foul. But I haven’t heard any proposals from the liberals. I guess just borrow and spend more??
Bruce S
Jeez – are you that stupid? Where have you been over the last three decades?
Why the hell did you “conservatives” deliberately create these deficits with profligate tax cuts in the first place ?
Read this and get back to me…
http://titanicsailsatdawn.blogspot.com/2011/03/common-sense-guide-to-great-deficit.html
Greyjoy
No, we can’t keep spending at current levels. How about cutting defense spending and getting rid of those tax cuts? Oh, but now conservatives cry foul because those are their bread and butter. If we cut those, they’d have to get real jobs.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@Caz:
300 billion off of defense, and america wouldn’t be one bit less secure.
Yutsano
@Caz: Raise. Taxes. Neat, nifty, fits on a bumper sticker, and easily doable except for Grover Norquist’s hurt fee-fees.
Bruce S
Yutsano – we’re also going to have to transition to a health care system that’s sustainable – cost-effective AND “care-effectve.” Ours is the most insanely expensive – with unimpressive outcomes – in the world. My suggestion is that we emulate France, rather than…uh…the libertarian paradise of Somalia. Others may differ – http://mises.org/daily/2066
Yutsano
@Bruce S: I’m partial to how the Aussies do theirs only because they have a set-up that would be fairly easy for us to mimic with a minimum of fuss. Plus there would still be private insurers so there would be less disruption than going all single payer period. But as you mentioned YMMV.
MikeJ
@Yutsano: Eat the rich.
Yutsano
@MikeJ: They’re probably too tough and stringy to eat in any large quantity. I like the idea of a confiscatory tax rate better.
opie_jeanne
@Yutsano: I live in Woodinville so some of the neighbors would stop talking to me if I had that for a bumper sticker. I think that might be a plus in one case.
Villago Delenda Est
The answer to the deficit “crisis” is obvious, if you’re not a fuckhead, like Caz.
Restore pre 2001 tax rates.
Terminate pointless wars of aggression.
Yutsano
@Villago Delenda Est: For at least one of these things to happen, all Congress has to do is the thing they are best at: nothing. Of course the Republicans will find some Obama priority to hold hostage and try to get their rich benefactors the cut again.
pkdz
“I came to the House as a real deficit hawk, but I am no longer a deficit hawk. I’ll tell you why. I had to spend the surpluses. Deficits make it easier to say no.”
— Sen. Rick Santorum (R-PA), quoted by The Hill in 2003.
Villago Delenda Est
@pkdz:
The surplus was being “spent” on paying down the national debt.
And thus depriving the parasite overclass of the interest on that debt.
Can’t have THAT.
Chuck Butcher
I suppose that the Dems and the Prez could publicly and privately tell the GOPers that unless there is taxation there won’t be a single cent cut and if they want to watch the thing go smash because they don’t believe it – try getting a campaign contribution from the big losers in that equation.
That would require not blinking…
I know, I said Dems and the Prez…
Chuck Butcher
@Chuck Butcher:
I know that’s just babbling, the system is gamed and there are enough cronies on both sides of the aisles to mean it is just … babble.
one could wish
Chuck Butcher
Maybe the GOP plan is to create enough homeless scooped up in their Faux voter fraud laws to keep the Ds from gaining a
any ground when their shit hits the fan. It really ought to dawn on them that as the shit climbs uphill a lot of their voters are going to get caught under it.
I just don’t see how this works for them electorally unless they can find a way to blame Ds.
Quiddity
Is this story going to get any traction? I learned about it about a week ago, and aside from this blog, haven’t seem anybody comment on it. I didn’t care much about Christie taking the helicopter, but it got national coverage. This Medicare waiver eliminates the program. Nobody can live on $103 a week and support two children. Nobody. So there won’t be anybody in that category to sign up.
P.S. Sully thinks Christie is a cool dude. I eagerly await his reassessment of the man now that this Medicaid waiver news is out.
Calouste
@Quiddity:
Lemme see:
Does Sully live in New Jersey? Nope.
Does Sully use Medicaid? Nope.
Does Sully live on $103/week? Nope.
So in summary, does this affect Sully personally? Nope.
So Sully won’t change his opinion of Christie.
Triassic Sands
Relax. There are scores of health insurance policies available for people with low incomes. Just sign up for the $1,500,000 deductible with $1,000,000 co-pays and then sit back secure in the knowledge that you’ve got health insurance.
The other alternative, and by far the best route for any savvy consumer, is to simply never get sick. Plan your life carefully so that you avoid illness until one day in your 84th year and then have a massive stroke that kills you instantly. It’s cheap, simple, and tidy. Americans, who are notoriously poor at planning ahead, have so far neglected to take advantage of this course of action. Why is anyone’s guess. Just stupid, I suppose.
When the “death with dignity” physician assisted suicide law was put on the ballot a few years ago in Washington State, there was a predictable outcry from disabled people, who, for a reason I can’t understand, always seem to see such laws as the first step toward the inevitable wholesale slaughter of the disabled. Now, a real threat to disabled people exists in state efforts to cut Medicaid and, strangely, I haven’t heard much complaint coming from disabled groups. Medicare get most of the press, but the actual threat to Medicaid recipients is much greater than that to Medicare, because the people who receive Medicaid and generally much more vulnerable than the average Medicare recipients, they don’t have nearly as powerful groups lobbying for them, and Congress in general and Republicans specifically are much more afraid of a Medicare backlash than one from cutting Medicaid.
I’ve always favored folding Medicaid into Medicare (many Medicaid recipients are also senior citizens) as a way to reduce the threat to the poor. When was the last time you saw an update on Arizona’s transplant patients, some of whom have died since the state decided to refuse them Medicaid-funded transplants? Yet, “Mediscare” has filled column after column of newspapers (and on-line sources).
But the problem is more complicated. I’ve checked and in the town I live in (in western Washington) only doctor’s in one clinic will accept Medicaid patients and some of the doctors in that clinic are not accepting any new patients. Having insurance that no doctor will accept is the same as not having insurance at all. The situation is only going to get worse as reimbursement rates are cut further and PPACA attempts to insure millions of Americans by making them eligible for Medicaid. In my town, I’m assuming that the new law will make many hundreds or even a few thousand people eligible for Medicaid. With only two or three doctors willing to accept Medicaid patients, most of the new enrollees will have insurance and no doctor. We’re headed for a potential disaster and as far as I know the administration isn’t doing anything about it.
Republicans are obviously not going to offer a responsible solution to this problem, which is why it is troubling (at least to me) that the administration doesn’t seem to making any effort to deal with this situation.
rikyrah
thanks for publishing this story.
rikyrah
that fat fuck of a Governor should have to take his ass to the ‘ free market’ and try and get insurance.
yeah, let’s see HIM get any insurance company cover him- period.
Tehanu
@Caz:
But I haven’t heard any proposals from the liberals.
Sure you have. You just didn’t like the idea of paying your fair share of what it takes to keep an industrial civilization going, or of cutting the military budget so it isn’t more than the military budgets of all the other countries in the world put together, or of not pouring trillions of dollars into the coffers of Afghan drug dealers and Wall Street bankers (brothers under the skin that they are). Moral blindness, alas, is not something the rest of us can give you a pill or a shot for an instant cure.
Dwieboldt
These asshats are only minions of the asshats that only care about that very last cent that they can earn off of laborers backs. I’m saying that laborers in “there” terms is anyone making less money per hour/or less money per month.
I work for Starbucks Coffee Company, and at least they seem to have a heart in terms of flexibility, which is mostly why we are working for them (other than the other great benefits and great potential to rise to management positions. I’ve bee working for the company in various retail roles, and can say that I’m a mostly happy camper. Enjoy our coffee, and consider coming into our happy family!
Nancy Irving
@BO_Bill:
Mexico has universal healthcare, bub.