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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread: Iceland

Open Thread: Iceland

by $8 blue check mistermix|  June 16, 20118:36 am| 116 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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It’s amazing to me that a country small enough (320,000) to discuss a revision of its constitution on Facebook can also run up a debt of $120 billion (if my math is right), and create pretty good movies (stream it here). Here’s an open thread.

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Reader Interactions

116Comments

  1. 1.

    burnspbesq

    June 16, 2011 at 8:57 am

    Listen to the latest scandal:

    A recent study in Chicago revealed that doctors are more likely to refuse appointments to children covered by Medicaid or CHIP than children covered by private insurance.

    http://www.samefacts.com/2011/06/health-and-medicine/audit-study-yes-medical-specialists-avoid-medicaidchip-insured-kids/

    This is clearly not right, although I have no idea how to fix it.

  2. 2.

    john b

    June 16, 2011 at 8:58 am

    my god. that’s $375,000 per person.

  3. 3.

    Poopyman

    June 16, 2011 at 9:00 am

    @NN, or more precisely, in the hotel cafe awaiting my overpriced breakfast. I usually eat in the hotel once just to say I’ve done it.

    After that, it’s off to registration, and dfh fun.

    Mental note — don’t take a cab frm msp to downtown. Costs $40w/o the tip. And it looked so close on Google Maps ….

  4. 4.

    Valdivia

    June 16, 2011 at 9:00 am

    totally OT but I love that Mark Fukcing Penn is out pimping the way Obama can lose the election. Shoot me now.

  5. 5.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 16, 2011 at 9:02 am

    a country small enough (320,000) to discuss a revision of its constitution on Facebook can also run up a debt of $120 billion (if my math is right)

    Ah, but the country didn’t run up that debt, the banks did, and they didn’t get bailed out like we did here, if I understand correctly. Planet Money did a whole series on the Icelandic conundrum a few months ago before their vote on bailing out foreign investors.

  6. 6.

    Xenos

    June 16, 2011 at 9:05 am

    A good example for Greece. Except that the New Democracy Party (conservative) that committed most of the fraud that caused the crisis won’t form a coalition government so that anything can be done.

    That sounds a bit familiar, now that I mention it…

  7. 7.

    Alan

    June 16, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Related: http://neweconomicperspectives.blogspot.com/2011/05/breakup-of-euro-is-icelands-rejection.html

  8. 8.

    Alex S.

    June 16, 2011 at 9:24 am

    The only reason the bankers didn’t get killed by pitchforks is that Iceland doesn’t have a lot of agriculture. And they are recovering far better than Ireland and Greece even though (because) they didn’t bail out the banks. Luckily, Iceland is too small for bankers to conceal their own mismanagement and greed.

  9. 9.

    Morbo

    June 16, 2011 at 9:26 am

    And it’s amazing to me that our sovereign debt CDS is now in a worse position than Brazil’s or Italy’s. Wonder what that sudden uptick could be attributed to… (via Angry Bear)

  10. 10.

    cleek

    June 16, 2011 at 9:28 am

    @Alex S.:

    The only reason the bankers didn’t get killed by pitchforks is that Iceland doesn’t have a lot of agriculture

    but they have volcanoes!

  11. 11.

    alwhite

    June 16, 2011 at 9:36 am

    Yup – they got that far in the hole because the followed the investment strategies of the masters of the universe. And the people are still going to pay for it just differently than the rest of us will.

  12. 12.

    jayackroyd

    June 16, 2011 at 9:36 am

    Iceland.Ireland.

    One letter makes a big difference.

  13. 13.

    John X.

    June 16, 2011 at 9:37 am

    The banking community and their right wing shills hate Iceland. They were in a similar situation to Greece, Ireland and America, but they decided to fuck the bankers in favor of their citizens.

    Their economic recovery has been better than any of the other victims of the crisis, which has led the meme that they are “parasites.”

  14. 14.

    Alex S.

    June 16, 2011 at 9:39 am

    @cleek:

    Hehe, evil…

  15. 15.

    boss bitch

    June 16, 2011 at 9:42 am

    breaking news: Wiener is stepping down.

  16. 16.

    Luthe

    June 16, 2011 at 9:45 am

    @jayackroyd:
    Well, that and the Euro. Iceland can devalue its currency to get out of hock, while Ireland cannot. Which is why Iceland is doing so much better now.

    /everything I know about economics I learned from K-thug

    ETA: @boss bitch: And the Wiener goes limp.

  17. 17.

    cleek

    June 16, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Wiener pulls out!

    (i know this is old news by now. but… cock puns!)

    Wiener pussies-out!

  18. 18.

    Bill H.

    June 16, 2011 at 9:50 am

    The debt was mostly owed to English investors, and when Icelandic voters said “Oh, hell no” and “Let the banks fail and the debt default” to the repayment plan England was about ready to declare war on Iceland. I was about ready, on the other hand, to move to Iceland. Those are my kind of voters.

  19. 19.

    Francis

    June 16, 2011 at 9:53 am

    I passed the patent bar and I’m employed. Hoo–effing–ray.

    I have no original advice for those looking for work. Here’s the unoriginal advice:

    1. Ask everyone you know if they’re hiring.
    2. Go to the placement office of your local community college. Govt funding for classes and retraining exists.
    3. If you’re deep underwater on your mortgage, don’t be afraid to stop paying. This is about money, not morality.

  20. 20.

    PurpleGirl

    June 16, 2011 at 9:54 am

    @cleek: Yes, they have volcanoes. And the Mid-Atlantic Ridge makes landfall and cuts across the country (with lots of deep crevices whose bottoms you can’t even see). Lots of places where one could perform a sacrifice to the gods of money/prosperity/whatever.

  21. 21.

    Violet

    June 16, 2011 at 9:54 am

    @Bill H.:
    Yep. This is how it went. The UK was all tied up in that mess. They were about to declare war on Iceland. Can’t say I blame Iceland for saying, “Hell, no, we’re not going to bail out your bankers.”

  22. 22.

    Ash Can

    June 16, 2011 at 9:55 am

    @ cleek: Our schlong national nightmare is over.

  23. 23.

    Dennis SGMM

    June 16, 2011 at 9:58 am

    @cleek:
    So Wiener went limp. He clearly doesn’t measure up to Lyndon’s Johnson.

  24. 24.

    cleek

    June 16, 2011 at 9:59 am

    @Ash Can:
    Wiener’s long, hard ordeal has come to a sticky end.

  25. 25.

    handsmile

    June 16, 2011 at 10:01 am

    As well as to create, in Sigur Ros, pretty effing great music! (I remain agnostic on the subject of Bjork.)

    But Icelanders employing social media to help draft a new constitution is not the most compelling example of how fundamentally UnSerious they are. These wackjobs have actually submitted formal charges against their former prime minister, Geir Haarde, for his role in the collapse of Iceland’s banking system in 2008. He is the first (and only) world leader to face criminal charges for malfeasance in the global financial crisis.

    These Guardian articles may be of some interest on the topic:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/jun/07/iceland-former-premier-trial-banking-crisis

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/dec/07/iceland-exits-recession-third-quarter

  26. 26.

    shortstop

    June 16, 2011 at 10:04 am

    @arguingwithsignposts: Absolutely right.

    Icelanders are a fascinating bunch. Have some good friends from there (long story) and really enjoyed my time in Reykjavik. It’s always interesting to me to see how really small countries work; that’s not a a perspective that’s easily gained from where we Merkins sit, no matter how non-insular we may try to be.

  27. 27.

    shortstop

    June 16, 2011 at 10:07 am

    @PurpleGirl: Even some of those hot springs are too toasty to sustain mammalian life, if you know what I mean.

  28. 28.

    shortstop

    June 16, 2011 at 10:08 am

    @Francis: Congratulations!

  29. 29.

    PurpleGirl

    June 16, 2011 at 10:09 am

    @shortstop: Right you are.

    Just so many places a sacrificial ceremony could be performed.

  30. 30.

    Violet

    June 16, 2011 at 10:10 am

    @PurpleGirl:
    And sometimes sacrifices must be made.

  31. 31.

    Thoroughly Pizzled

    June 16, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Vanity Fair had a hilarious summary of the whole affair a few years ago. Still my favorite article.

  32. 32.

    Bruce S

    June 16, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Pawlenty’s tax plan is worth a look – stunning in it’s doubling – or quadrupling down – on exactly what got the country into the deficit problem in the first place.

    http://titanicsailsatdawn.blogspot.com/2011/06/craziest-gop-campaign-promise-to-date.html

    This is also an interesting link from Frum on Heritage Foundation’s paying Limbaugh, et. al. to push their product:

    http://www.frumforum.com/talk-radios-pay-to-play-deals

    I can’t stand Frum but I think he’s actually a more authentic “serious conservative” than Brooks – more willing to actually mix it up with his party. And, I think, he’s more honest and substantive than Brooks in discussing policies.

  33. 33.

    shortstop

    June 16, 2011 at 10:12 am

    @PurpleGirl: And afterward they all go off and enjoy a nice smoked fish dinner and, for those who can stand it, some Brennivin, aka the Black Death. I see no downside to this.

  34. 34.

    shortstop

    June 16, 2011 at 10:13 am

    @Violet: I saw, and loved, what you did there.

  35. 35.

    Culture of Truth

    June 16, 2011 at 10:15 am

    “Hell, no, we’re not going to bail out your bankers.”

    But, but, but, but…think of the children… who will grow up to be bankers!

  36. 36.

    WereBear

    June 16, 2011 at 10:18 am

    I also like Ólafur Arnalds re: Icelandic music.

  37. 37.

    Judas Escargot

    June 16, 2011 at 10:21 am

    @burnspbesq:

    A recent study in Chicago revealed that doctors are more likely to refuse appointments to children covered by Medicaid or CHIP than children covered by private insurance.

    Also OT: Had dinner with an older uncle (71) the other day, and he told me something very odd.

    Apparently his cardiologist told him that he’s going to start charging a $5000/year up-front “surcharge” for his Medicare patients. Since my uncle can’t afford that, this doctor has cordially offered his help in finding him another qualified cardiologist. How f_cking gracious. Then he told me three of his similar-aged friends at the local Y had much the same story with doctors of theirs.

    Then I found out my mother’s GI guy is starting a similar policy, at $2000/year. WTF?

    So… if you’re old and poor, doctors are like lawyers now? You have to pay a retainer before they’ll even talk to you?

    Sounds fishy (ie if not outright illegal, really unethical) to me, but IANAL.

  38. 38.

    Violet

    June 16, 2011 at 10:26 am

    @Judas Escargot:
    A lot of doctors are dropping Medicare patients (refusing to take Medicare). If they’re not dropping them, then they do things like this. Not all doctors are doing this, but a lot are.

    I have older relatives who are dealing with this. Doctors are just flat out stopping taking Medicare. And what do you do, especially if you are ill or otherwise unable to manage a difficult task like finding a new, qualified doctor who will take Medicare? Let alone one you can get yourself to and who you like and relate to and who treats you well.

  39. 39.

    atlliberal

    June 16, 2011 at 10:28 am

    But wait, didn’t Iceland lower it’s taxes to the point that they should be raking in the dough? Haven’t Republicans been telling us that we should do like they did so we can compete on the world market?

    How many times will Republicans be wrong before they no longer have any credibility on economics? Will they completely destroy the country before then or will we as a country figure out in time that if the republicans think its a good idea, it is likely not.

  40. 40.

    jo6pac

    June 16, 2011 at 10:30 am

    At lest Iceland (Niceland) arrested the criminals unlike Amerika were they got bonuses. There’s much more to the story.

  41. 41.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 16, 2011 at 10:31 am

    @burnspbesq: If you want to see another example of the Illinois clusterfk on health insurance, check out what they’ve been doing with state employee health plans – lawsuits, last-minute 90-day contracts, etc. Real winners in the state capital.

  42. 42.

    cleek

    June 16, 2011 at 10:32 am

    @atlliberal:

    How many times will Republicans be wrong before they no longer have any credibility on economics?

    infinity times.

  43. 43.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 16, 2011 at 10:33 am

    @Violet: Simple solution: offer to reduce a doctor’s student loan debt based on a proportion of medicare/medicaid patients they accept. A real problem remains getting doctors out to rural areas. perhaps something similar could be enacted there.

  44. 44.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    June 16, 2011 at 10:35 am

    @PurpleGirl:

    Yes, they have volcanoes. And the Mid-Atlantic Ridge makes landfall and cuts across the country (with lots of deep crevices whose bottoms you can’t even see). Lots of places where one could perform a sacrifice to the gods of money/prosperity/whatever.

    I went to Iceland for Airwaves in 2007 and visited the mid-Atlantic Ridge. Just an awesome place – and safe. I was probably the worst element in the country.

    I can’t wait to go back someday.

  45. 45.

    PurpleGirl

    June 16, 2011 at 10:37 am

    @atlliberal:

    But wait, didn’t Iceland lower it’s taxes to the point that they should be raking in the dough? Haven’t Republicans been telling us that we should do like they did so we can compete on the world market?

    I think that was Ireland. They were told not to raise their corporate tax rate or lose a bunch of corporate jobs. They were told if they did the austerity thing, the bankers would be pleased and would eventually lower the interest rates. Well… they did and the bankers keep demanding higher rates and keep lowering Ireland’s rating and Ireland is sinking fast.

    That’s what so nice about Iceland. They refused the advice and they are doing better.

  46. 46.

    Steamboat

    June 16, 2011 at 10:38 am

    @handsmile: Björk, múm, Emiliana Torrini, Sigur Rós, Hafdís Huld. Love me some Icelandic music.

  47. 47.

    Roger Moore

    June 16, 2011 at 10:38 am

    @atlliberal:

    How many times will Republicans be wrong before they no longer have any credibility on economics?

    You can’t count that high. Actually, they only have to be wrong once, provided they’re wrong the wrong way. The moment they start contradicting the interests of the banksters and corporate looters, then they’ll lose their credibility on the economy.

  48. 48.

    Judas Escargot

    June 16, 2011 at 10:44 am

    @Violet:

    My uncle’s had two heart attacks. If he dies because of this money-grubbing SOB, that doctor will pay dearly, I promise you.

    An aside, OT but related: Recently had a long jury duty on an insurance fraud case. Can’t really go into details without semi-outing myself (it was a moderately visible trial), but I realized halfway through that part of the reason so many doctors refuse Medicare (and, by extension, oppose any public option) must be that it makes it a lot harder to commit insurance fraud.

    Love or hate those anonymous “government bureaucrats”, but they will generally do their jobs properly when allowed. For a private insurance company, though, if enforcement costs too much, they just up everyone’s rates and move on. “Cost of doing business” and all that…

  49. 49.

    Citizen_X

    June 16, 2011 at 10:44 am

    So: Weiner quits, Canada riots.

    Excuse me? Oh…I’m being told it’s the other way around.

  50. 50.

    tomvox1

    June 16, 2011 at 10:45 am

    Maybe, finally we can get some congressional action on the Bush II Admin breaking the law:

    Glenn L. Carle, a former Central Intelligence Agency officer who was a top counterterrorism official during the administration of President George W. Bush, said the White House at least twice asked intelligence officials to gather sensitive information on Juan Cole, a University of Michigan professor who writes an influential blog that criticized the war.

    Professor Cole’s response here:

    I hope that the Senate and House Intelligence Committees will immediately launch an investigation of this clear violation of the law by the Bush White House and by the CIA officials concerned.

  51. 51.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 16, 2011 at 10:47 am

    @PurpleGirl:

    That’s what so nice about Iceland. They refused the advice and they are doing better.

    The cool thing about Iceland is that the president refused to sign the parliament’s deal with the Eurozone countries whose citizens had invested in high-flying Icelandic banks, insisting that the citizens should have a direct say in the thing. Here’s the planet money podcast with an interview with Iceland’s president.

  52. 52.

    atlliberal

    June 16, 2011 at 10:50 am

    @PurpleGirl: Back during the bush administration, before the economy collapsed, they were telling us we should be like Iceland and Ireland. Now that they have both collapsed they are hoping that nobody remembers.

  53. 53.

    Steeplejack

    June 16, 2011 at 10:50 am

    @Thoroughly Pizzled:

    Linky no work. You fix.

    ETA. Oh, hell. I fix: “Wall Street on the Tundra” (PDF).

  54. 54.

    Chris

    June 16, 2011 at 10:54 am

    @tomvox1:

    Nice to know how focused they were on chasing terrorists. Osama, now, Bush didn’t spend too much time on him, to be honest. But a professor in Michigan running an anti-war blog? Never before has the republic been in such peril.

    (Speaking of which, al-Qaeda has a new boss).

  55. 55.

    Elizabelle

    June 16, 2011 at 10:55 am

    @Thoroughly Pizzled:

    your link to Vanity Fair article does not work

    Good morning, Juicers.

  56. 56.

    catclub

    June 16, 2011 at 10:55 am

    Speaking of populations:

    The population of Libya is about 6 million.

    The population of Syria is about 22 million.

    This goes along way in explaining why we are not doing anything about unrest and violent crackdowns on Syrian protesters.

    I think the population of Egypt is 70 million.

    The notable exception to ‘it is easier to bully small countries’ rule is Israel – 7 million.

  57. 57.

    John X.

    June 16, 2011 at 10:57 am

    “The notable exception to ‘it is easier to bully small countries’ rule is Israel – 7 million.”

    Israel has nukes, which is an exception all of its own.

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    June 16, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Ladies Day in the UK

    Where do they get those hats?

  59. 59.

    daveNYC

    June 16, 2011 at 11:00 am

    @Luthe:

    Well, that and the Euro. Iceland can devalue its currency to get out of hock, while Ireland cannot. Which is why Iceland is doing so much better now.

    The Euro helps, but the biggest difference is that the Irish government decided to guarantee the banks’ debt. The fact that the politicians who did such a stupid thing haven’t had their heads stuck on pikes is a huge failure on the part of the Irish people.

    But wait, didn’t Iceland lower it’s taxes to the point that they should be raking in the dough? Haven’t Republicans been telling us that we should do like they did so we can compete on the world market?

    You mean Ireland? Yeah, they lowered their taxes, and right now the low taxes are the only thing keeping them going. Seriously, ‘tax shelter’ is like the only industry in Ireland that is doing well at the moment.

  60. 60.

    retr2327

    June 16, 2011 at 11:03 am

    Funny to find this as the first thread I read this morning; I just got back from Iceland last night (4 days). What a great place: spectacular scenery, friendly and helpful people, a distinct culture, surprisingly good food, etc. Loved it.

    One more oddity: driving home last night, I saw the first sunset I’d seen since I left the U.S. 24-hour daylight over there now; if you haven’t experienced that, it’s really bizarre (in a good way). And it really expands the possibilities for getting out and enjoying the country; we did a 6-mile hike through a wonderful valley, including hot springs soak, dinner, etc., that started after 7 pm and ended after 1 pm. Just like walking around during the day.

    And yes, they had the right idea, telling the Brits to go jump. If you’re chasing high yields over the internet in foreign countries, yhou should damn well recognize you’re getting a bigger return because you’re taking a bigger risk.

  61. 61.

    daveNYC

    June 16, 2011 at 11:06 am

    @retr2327:

    And yes, they had the right idea, telling the Brits to go jump. If you’re chasing high yields over the internet in foreign countries, yhou should damn well recognize you’re getting a bigger return because you’re taking a bigger risk.

    If there’s one thing that never changes in finance, it’s the idea that ‘this time it’s different’.

  62. 62.

    Admiral_Komack

    June 16, 2011 at 11:06 am

    @cleek:

    I guess his support just petered out.

  63. 63.

    Morbo

    June 16, 2011 at 11:06 am

    @shortstop: Aevi mín er eintómt hlaup
    Efter brennivíni
    Geturðu sett á glasið í Staup
    Gömlu Fyllisvíni

    Drink while you are able.

  64. 64.

    TooManyJens

    June 16, 2011 at 11:09 am

    @arguingwithsignposts: Oh God, we’re right smack in the middle of that and it’s been a nightmare. I just re-did my benefits election last night for the third time — the deadline is tomorrow, and they finally got the 90-day contracts negotiated about 5:00 yesterday.

    Somehow the state government thought it would be a great idea to go ahead and award contracts to: 1) a Chicago-area HMO that doesn’t have a provider network downstate; and 2) open access plans where the state itself is the insurer, when the state has not self-insured before and may not be legally authorized to do so. Bunch of clownfucks in this state.

  65. 65.

    Derf

    June 16, 2011 at 11:12 am

    How come there hasn’t been any more posts by John Galt Cole praising Boehner for holding Obama’s feet to the fire in Libya. You people still believe Cole speaks for you? lol

    Of course like I would expect any good Libertarian/Republican to do, John Galt Cole is now deleting my posts.

  66. 66.

    Yurpean

    June 16, 2011 at 11:13 am

    @Violet: Exactly right, if by bankers you mean pensioners (retirees) and local authorities (municipalities).

  67. 67.

    Steeplejack

    June 16, 2011 at 11:14 am

    I give up. I have been trying to post a comment about Jar City (movie and book), and FYWP keeps eating it. Cannot figure out what it doesn’t like. Only one link (to Amazon), no naughty words (or subwords) that I can see.

    Anyway, good movie and good book.

    ETA: Okay, this one went through. Let me see if I can slide my other piece in.

    I have been continuing with Håkan Nesser’s Inspector Van Veeteren series, mentioned in a thread last week: Mind’s Eye, Borkmann’s Point, The Return, Woman with Birthmark and (just published in hardback) The Inspector and Silence. They take place in an anonymous European country that seems to be somewhere between Sweden, Holland, Germany and Poland. They’re tightly written, the translations (from Swedish) seem to be pretty good, and the characters are drawn well. Recommended.

    ETFA: WTF?! Now it works. FYWP.

  68. 68.

    Southern Beale

    June 16, 2011 at 11:17 am

    Apparently Anthony Weiner is resigning? Figured this would happen.

    Our phones got knocked out by lightning yesterday, and AT&T being the giant efficient super-sparkly corporation that it is can’t fix them until … MONDAY. I can live without a phone but not the DSL that is our internet connection. I’m at a coffee house right now, but sadly I may have to remember what life was like in the dinosaur age before Al Gore invented the internet. Maybe I”ll get more done.

    Monday. Can you believe it? MONDAY.

  69. 69.

    Xenos

    June 16, 2011 at 11:18 am

    @Violet: I don’t think you can charge fees to Medicare patients above and beyond the Medicare schedules… So these doctors must be shifting to non-Medicare practices. Or the rules for Medicare billing have changed a lot in the last few years.

  70. 70.

    Violet

    June 16, 2011 at 11:23 am

    @Yurpean:
    Yes, except it was the bankers who sold that bill of goods to the trusting pensioners and local authorities. The bankers were the ones making the money off it, and, as usual, the little people are left holding the bag.

    The people who should have been doing their job, like regulators looking at the impossible schemes and bankers who knew it was a load of crap, those are the people who should be held responsible. The average person thought they were doing the right thing by going with a “trusted and respected bank.” And guess what, they got screwed.

    Iceland didn’t deal directly with those little people, they dealt with the banks who packaged up the big money schemes and sold them to regular people. So Iceland didn’t bail out the bankers. But the bankers didn’t dig deep into their own pockets and then make good on their promises to the people who gave them their money. No, they just pointed fingers at Iceland.

    Typical bankers. “Not our fault! Blame anyone but us!”

  71. 71.

    Violet

    June 16, 2011 at 11:27 am

    @Xenos:
    You probably can’t charge fees for each service, like $100 extra per standard office visit or whatever. But charging an annual additional “bookkeeping fee” or “administrative fee” may not be prohibited. Which is probably why they’re going that direction.

  72. 72.

    Yutsano

    June 16, 2011 at 11:28 am

    I cannot believe it’s been at least 66 comments and no one mentions Iceland getting ripped off by Eurovision too. This happened right during the whole Icelandic banking clusterfuck. Eurovision is so fucking political it’s sick. She kicked the ass of the Norwegian twit who won.

  73. 73.

    Brachiator

    June 16, 2011 at 11:30 am

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Ah, but the country didn’t run up that debt, the banks did, and they didn’t get bailed out like we did here, if I understand correctly.

    Iceland stiffed its creditors. Damn Vikings.

    A few items of interest:

    Iceland has been hit especially hard by the ongoing late 2000s recession, because of the failure of its banking system and a subsequent economic crisis. Before the crash of the three largest banks in Iceland, Glitnir, Landsbanki and Kaupthing, their combined debt exceeded approximately six times the nation’s gross domestic product of €14 billion ($19 billion)
    __
    On 26 January 2009, the coalition government collapsed due to the public dissent over the handling of the financial crisis. A new left-wing government was formed a week later and immediately set about removing Central Bank governor Davíð Oddsson and his aides from the bank through changes in law. Oddsson was removed on 26 February 2009
    __
    Thousands of Icelanders have moved from the country after the collapse, and many of those moved to Norway. In 2005, 293 people moved from Iceland to Norway; in 2009, the figure was 1,625.

    More seriously, a little background on Iceland’s debt default:

    Iceland’s Landsbanki bank ran savings accounts in the UK and Netherlands under the name Icesave and investors there lost 4bn euros (£3.5bn; $5.8bn). When it collapsed in 2008, the British and Dutch governments had to reimburse 400,000 citizens – and Iceland had to decide how to repay that money….
    __
    Iceland’s parliament had backed the deal, but President Olafur Ragnar Grimsson refused to sign it, triggering the referendum. A previous deal, imposing a tougher repayment regime, was rejected in a March 2010 referendum by 93% of voters.

  74. 74.

    Mnemosyne

    June 16, 2011 at 11:31 am

    @Judas Escargot:

    I wonder if we could get an online database going of these assholes so people know to avoid them when trying to find healthcare for themselves and/or their relatives.

    Just an idea.

  75. 75.

    Martin

    June 16, 2011 at 11:33 am

    @catclub:

    The population of Libya is about 6 million.
    __
    The population of Syria is about 22 million.
    __
    This goes along way in explaining why we are not doing anything about unrest and violent crackdowns on Syrian protesters.

    That’s part of it. The other part is that when there’s a column of tanks heading for a city in Libya you can stop them without hitting anything else, because the country is basically islands of city in a huge desert. Syria isn’t like that. You just can’t intervene in Syria from the air like you can in Libya, at least, not without a shitload of collateral damage because it’s a much denser and more urban setting.

    Has nothing to do with the relative worth of the people that live there and everything to do with what can and cannot be done for the price (in lives) that would need to be paid to be successful.

  76. 76.

    Yurpean

    June 16, 2011 at 11:38 am

    @Violet: The Icesave fiasco happened as the Icelandic government tore up their own deposit insurance laws when Landsbanki went bust – honouring those laws had nothing to do with bailing out the bankers, the bank would still have been bust either way.

  77. 77.

    shortstop

    June 16, 2011 at 11:40 am

    @Morbo: I am unable, but send all good wishes to those of you who are.

    @TooManyJens and others dealing with this: My large sympathies.

  78. 78.

    Xenos

    June 16, 2011 at 11:40 am

    @Violet: And keep in mind, when sorting out the roles of the Bankers and Iceland, Ireland, Greece, and so on: who had a fiduciary obligation to whom. Many of the banker profited very well from the ruination of their clients. And there have been no clawbacks in sight.

  79. 79.

    Violet

    June 16, 2011 at 11:41 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    I wonder if we could get an online database going of these assholes so people know to avoid them when trying to find healthcare for themselves and/or their relatives.

    The Medicare.gov website has a list of doctors who do take Medicare.

    This problem is not a new one. Here’s an article from the WSJ in 2009 discussing it. Excerpt:

    Consider that the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission reported in 2008 that 28% of Medicare beneficiaries looking for a primary care physician had trouble finding one, up from 24% the year before. The reasons are clear: A 2008 survey by the Texas Medical Association, for example, found that only 38% of primary-care doctors in Texas took new Medicare patients. The statistics are similar in New York state, where I practice medicine.

    This was in 2008. It’s most likely worse by now.
    Edit: The above is an opinion piece. Here’s a NYT article on it, from 2009:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/02/business/retirementspecial/02health.html.
    Excerpt:

    The solution to this problem is to find doctors who accept Medicare insurance — and to do it well before reaching age 65. But that is not always easy, especially if you are looking for an internist, a primary care doctor who deals with adults. Of the 93 internists affiliated with New York-Presbyterian Hospital, for example, only 37 accept Medicare, according to the hospital’s Web site.

  80. 80.

    Violet

    June 16, 2011 at 11:44 am

    @Yurpean:
    Yes, there’s definitely a lot of blame to go around.

  81. 81.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 16, 2011 at 11:47 am

    @Southern Beale:

    Monday. Can you believe it? MONDAY.

    I’m amazed they are reacting so quickly.

  82. 82.

    patroclus

    June 16, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Helena Sverrisdottir is a really good basketball player.

  83. 83.

    gene108

    June 16, 2011 at 11:54 am

    @Judas Escargot:

    I realized halfway through that part of the reason so many doctors refuse Medicare (and, by extension, oppose any public option) must be that it makes it a lot harder to commit insurance fraud.

    I think it has more to do with lower reimbursement rates for Medicare, Medicaid, etc. than actually committing fraud.

    As it is, before the $500 billion Democrats cut from Medicare, the chances of finding doctors accepting Medicare were less than finding one, if you had private insurance.

    I can see cutting reimbursement rates to doctors compounding this problem.

    People become doctors for three reason, which vary in importance depending on the doctor: (1) to help people, (2) it’s steady, recession proof work, and (3) it pays well. Depending on the doctor, they may be willing to compromise on one of those things, in order to make the other two possible.

  84. 84.

    Judas Escargot

    June 16, 2011 at 11:54 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    A good idea, that… but older folks might have difficulty getting to anything online (my uncle has zero computer skills, for example).

    A one-time, vertical 1/4-page ad in the Boston Globe OpEd section goes for little over $10k.

    Spendy, but not unattainable: You could fit quite a few doctor’s names in that space.

    And as long as one’s careful to only print what’s technically true, the inevitable defamation/slander suits would only bring those doctors more (free) negative publicity.

    (Edited, the link was mangled. FYWP).

  85. 85.

    handsmile

    June 16, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    @Steeplejack:

    As you’ve kindly introduced the subject of Icelandic literature, it would be derelict of me not to recommend the works of Iceland’s Nobel Prize-winning novelist Halldor Laxness.

    His masterpiece, “Independent People,” fully deserves its reputation as among the greatest novels of the 20th century. A less harrowing introduction to his creative vision might be “World Light” or “Iceland’s Bell.” Astonishingly, his novels may still be found in well-stocked bookstores (even B&N and Borders), as well as online and at public libraries.

    To all those gathered here at John Cole’s bar-and-grille, if you’re not familiar with Halldor Laxness, this would be a gift to yourself this summer.

    Steeplejack: you may well know there have been two subsequent novels (translated into English) from Arnaldur Indriasson’s Inspector Erlendur series: “Silence of the Grave [*] and “The Draining Lake.” And I trust I don’t have to mention the magisterial Henning Mankell.

  86. 86.

    Brachiator

    June 16, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    @Southern Beale:

    Apparently Anthony Weiner is resigning? Figured this would happen.

    And of course, Southern Baptist Theological Seminary President Al Mohler suggests that Weiner will be OK if he finds the Baby Jeebus:

    Mohler, one of the country’s most prominent Southern Baptist leaders, tweeted:
    __
    Dear Congressman Weiner: There is no effective “treatment” for sin. Only atonement, found only in Jesus Christ.
    __
    The message has been re-tweeted by about 100 of his 27,000 followers.

    I find this more offensive than sexting. But that’s just me.

  87. 87.

    Chris

    June 16, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    Dear Congressman Weiner: There is no effective “treatment” for sin. Only atonement, found only in Jesus Christ.

    You know, if they dedicated even a fraction of the time to stopping “sins” that actually involved directly harming people by causing them pain, suffering or death, that they spend obsessing on other people’s sex lives, I might actually be able to take them seriously.

    Well, no, probably not. But they’d at least have a fucking moral high ground to stand on. As it stands, not so much. Over a million dead Iraqis? Carry on, George. Pictures of your wiener posted on the Interwebs? Bring out the fainting couch and the puke bucket, and have an ambulance standing by just in case. How COULD you, representative? Have you no shame? At long last, sir, have you no decency?

  88. 88.

    cleek

    June 16, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    @Brachiator:

    I find this more offensive than sexting. But that’s just me.

    especially since Wiener is Jewish.

  89. 89.

    Chris

    June 16, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    @cleek:

    especially since Wiener is Jewish.

    “They don’t love real Jewish people. They love us as characters in their story, in their play, and that’s not who we are, and we never auditioned for that part, and the play is not one that ends up good for us. If you listen to the drama they’re describing, essentially it’s a five-act play in which the Jews disappear in the fourth act.”
    – Gershom Gorenberg, commenting on American Christian conservatives’ obsession with Israel.

  90. 90.

    Martin

    June 16, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    @Southern Beale: Huh. Our (cable) internet went out last Dec 22 after some heavy rains. Took out our two neighbors as well, and we lost about half the tv channels. We talked to the neighbors and the cable company came out that day and fiddled, and things got a bit better, but not right. Later that day we had them out again, more fiddling, and about an hour after he left everything died including the phone. Dec 23, out again, more fiddling things back, and a hours later dead again. Out again at 6PM, along with an actual explanation that the junction box that serves our side of the street was flooded but all the cable runs from there to the houses were all fucked up because of all the work done over the years. He wasn’t able to fix it at all and said they’d be back out after Christmas.

    I called the cable company (Cox) and escalated the call and pointed out that I had two kids getting christmas presents that depended on internet access (true) and that if it wasn’t fixed by Christmas morning I was going to make my opinion of their service very well known. On the morning of the 24th two trucks rolled up – not contractors, but the company itself – and they reran all the lines to the affected houses – took all day. They came back to the door the morning of the 25th to confirm that everything was working well (I gave the guys a present for that service – lesson from my grandmother – always keep a couple of generic, tasteful wrapped gifts in the closet so that you never need to be on the receiving end of an unexpected gift from a neighbor without being able to reciprocate).

    I gotta say, I was impressed with that. What I learned along the way is that cable and internet are low-priority. Phone is high priority because apparently there are regulations by the FCC or some other govt agency (possibly state) about guaranteeing phone access, and if there’s a phone outage, that instantly goes to the top of the queue and they roll trucks 365 for that. I’d lean on AT&T over the phone outage unless it’s widespread. And persistence pays off.

  91. 91.

    slag

    June 16, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    @Chris: All that you said, plus we’ve seen how well their “atonement” strategy has worked for them as a class.

  92. 92.

    karen marie

    June 16, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    @Southern Beale: On moving day ten years ago the phone line for a 10-block radius was taken out by a house fire. It took the telephone company ten days to restore phone service. Look what progress! It’s only going to take them five days to get yours restored!

    Moving is hell as it is, but try it with no phone service. The experience was one of the prime motivations to get a cell phone and ultimately drop my land line.

  93. 93.

    TooManyJens

    June 16, 2011 at 12:22 pm

    @cleek: Well, of course. Mohler could hardly use a Christian’s moral failings as a platform to try to win converts to Christianity, now could he?

  94. 94.

    Thoughtcrime

    June 16, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    @catclub:

    The population of Libya is about 6 million.
    …
    The population of Syria is about 22 million.

    The daily oil production of Libya is about 1.5 million bbls.

    The daily oil production of Syria is about 0.15 million bbls.

  95. 95.

    PeakVT

    June 16, 2011 at 12:34 pm

    Have our blog lords gone Galt?

    Maybe Tunch finally ate John.

  96. 96.

    stuckinred

    June 16, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    @karen marie: Who has a land line anymore?

  97. 97.

    Amir_Khalid

    June 16, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    @TooManyJens:
    Suppose some well-intentioned imam, the one at the mosque where Weiner’s wife is a member perhaps, were to suggest that Weiner should seek his self-betterment in Islam. Just imagine the asploding heads …

  98. 98.

    Martin

    June 16, 2011 at 12:40 pm

    @Thoughtcrime: And we import none of that oil. Further, a handful of high production rigs in the Gulf or North Atlantic can match Libya’s output, and they’re much cheaper.

  99. 99.

    JPL

    June 16, 2011 at 12:42 pm

    @PeakVT: Tunch was a covert spy for the CIA. Only recently did they realize they were investigating the wrong Cole.

  100. 100.

    lightning

    June 16, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Re Medicare: When a politician (either party) talks about “controlling Medicare costs”, this really means cutting payments to doctors and hospitals. The theory is that this will force doctors to be more efficient. However, there’s only so much doctors can cut — most of their costs are not under their control.

    Easier to just refuse Medicare patients, or find a way to get more money out of them. A brief rant on the subject.

  101. 101.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    June 16, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    A local radio station had some Westboro Baptist Church asshole on the radio discussing their protest of a local girl who died last week in Afghanistan. She wound up calling the 20 year old fallen solider a slut. I began shouting at my radio like never before. Those fuckers all desereve a slow painful death. Still fuming….

  102. 102.

    shortstop

    June 16, 2011 at 12:57 pm

    @stuckinred: People who get crappy or totally unreliable cell reception in their houses.

  103. 103.

    JPL

    June 16, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    @Old Dan and Little Ann: It’s time to call the radio station that gave the asshole a forum.

  104. 104.

    Continental Op

    June 16, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Anyone who has read Zero History knows that Hubertus Bigend is behind all of Iceland’s problems.

  105. 105.

    Brachiator

    June 16, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    @stuckinred:

    Who has a land line anymore?

    One small consideration. From the Jan 2011 Consumer Reports

    Overall, we think that dropping your home landline and making all calls—including 911 calls—on a cell phone is generally a safe bet, based on our analysis and data from our survey. These considerations can help you decide whether it’s worth the risk to cut the cord:
    __
    But with landline and VoIP 911, operators were significantly more likely to find callers by determining the location of the phone. More than one-third of landline and VoIP users were located in that manner compared with only 7 percent of cell callers. Landline and VoIP 911 give the operator your home address, including an apartment number if it appears on your phone bill. With cellular, operators see only geographic coordinates.
    __
    With all phone technologies, the operator asked respondents for their location at the start of the call in at least three of every four calls, perhaps if only to verify the address on the screen on landline and VoIP calls. But if you can’t speak—if you’re incapacitated or distraught, for example—it’s clearly a huge advantage if your address automatically shows up on the operator’s screen.

    I’ve heard that after some storms and earthquakes, land line service may be more reliable than cell phone service, but this may be purely anecdotal.

  106. 106.

    karen marie

    June 16, 2011 at 1:02 pm

    @stuckinred: Not me!

  107. 107.

    Cris (without an H)

    June 16, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    AdChoices is on to us. I just got an ad for Cosplay Costumes.

  108. 108.

    Brachiator

    June 16, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Iceland, Waste Land, another iPad literary gem

    A TS Eliot app

    “The Waste Land,” is selling very well on Apple’s iTunes App Store. According to eBook Newser, it’s also the #1 selling iPad book app, having nudged out the Marvel Comics app.
    __
    The iPad edition of the Waste Land includes an audio reading of the entire text by Fiona Shaw, archival recordings by Eliot himself, video commentary by poets such as Seamus Heaney and Jeanette Winterson, readings by actors Ted Hughes, Alec Guinness and Viggo Mortensen, images of Eliot’s marked-up manuscript pages, and hyperlinked annotations on many of the poem’s often-obscure language and allusions.
    __
    The Waste Land for iPad costs $14 in the Apple App Store. If you just want to read the text of The Waste Land, it’s available for free, since the poem is now in the public domain.

  109. 109.

    Pliny

    June 16, 2011 at 1:25 pm

    @ Thoroughly Pizzled

    Of course it’s a great article, it was written by Michael Lewis. He did one about Ireland earlier this year

    My favorite quote:

    “What happened was that everyone in Ireland had the idea that somewhere in Ireland there was a little wise old man who was in charge of the money, and this was the first time they’d ever seen this little man,” says McCarthy. “And then they saw him and said, Who the fuck was that??? Is that the fucking guy who is in charge of the money??? That’s when everyone panicked.”

  110. 110.

    Martin

    June 16, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    I’ve heard that after some storms and earthquakes, land line service may be more reliable than cell phone service, but this may be purely anecdotal.

    Land lines have more surge capacity than mobile does. That is, if everyone jumps on their land line at the same time, it’ll usually still work. If you do that with mobile, it often won’t.

    There’s a cheap solution to help out with this. Any halfway modern mobile phone will dial 911 even without a SIM card and contract, by law. I keep an old but very small Nokia phone in each of the cars along with a 12v charger adapter so I can always call on the road. Either use your old mobile for this use, or get one from a friend when they replace theirs. If you’re worried about 911 access, get a multiband world phone, or one that works with each carrier and stick them in a drawer somewhere. If one mobile network is down, you may still be able to connect through another. Will only help you with 911 though.

  111. 111.

    Brachiator

    June 16, 2011 at 2:11 pm

    Land lines have more surge capacity than mobile does. That is, if everyone jumps on their land line at the same time, it’ll usually still work. If you do that with mobile, it often won’t.

    Makes sense.

    Of course, if the electricity is out and you don’t have sufficient charge for your cell phone, your land line will probably still work.

  112. 112.

    Bloix

    June 16, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    I saw that movie – it was the most depressing two hours I’ve ever spent inside a movie theater.

  113. 113.

    daveNYC

    June 16, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Of course, if the electricity is out and you don’t have sufficient charge for your cell phone, your land line will probably still work.

    Unless you have a cordless phone.

  114. 114.

    Rorgg

    June 16, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    101 Rejkjavik

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0237993/

    was a good book and a pretty decent movie, too.

    Also.

  115. 115.

    AnneW

    June 16, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    A huge problem with Medicaid and CHIP in Illinois is that the last time I looked, it was taking months for health care providers to be reimbursed (state budget problems). I think at one time the lag was almost a year. A lot of providers couldn’t afford to extend that much credit.

  116. 116.

    Robert Waldmann

    June 17, 2011 at 3:35 am

    Not to mention Bjork.

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