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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread

Open Thread

by John Cole|  June 18, 201112:12 am| 97 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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I always hate it when we have serious posts at the end of the night on week-ends, so here is another open thread.

Trying out this crazy SKYPE shit. This will end badly.

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Previous Post: « Where’s your evidence?
Next Post: The Pains of Being Pure at Heart »

Reader Interactions

97Comments

  1. 1.

    ABL

    June 18, 2011 at 12:21 am

    I have heard the voice of John Cole.

    I’m ready to be raptured now.

  2. 2.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    June 18, 2011 at 12:21 am

    Skype is now part of The Borg. You probably want to use Google Voice – you know, from The Other Borg. ;-)

    http://www.google.com/chat/video

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  3. 3.

    JGabriel

    June 18, 2011 at 12:22 am

    It starts with Skype, and ends with seeking random strangers on Chatroulette for webcam sex.

    Stop, John, before it’s too late!

    .

  4. 4.

    trollhattan

    June 18, 2011 at 12:24 am

    Korea: Still messed up.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13820124

    Also, too, their neighbors.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13819767

  5. 5.

    bago

    June 18, 2011 at 12:28 am

    Just wait until you get into the craziness that will become of kinect chat. 3D and headtracking… Good stuff.

  6. 6.

    TooManyJens

    June 18, 2011 at 12:29 am

    @ABL: Aw, no video chat?

  7. 7.

    General Stuck

    June 18, 2011 at 12:32 am

    It’s getting harder and harder to separate what is serious and what is not with what is going on in this country. Weinergate shorted out a few of my fuses, that haven’t been quite repaired yet.

    On another note, we really need rain here, not only for the forest fire situation, but for mental health reasons as well. I am a sun worshipper, which is why I choose to live where I do, but jeebus fucking christ, we haven’t had any measurable precip since it snowed in Febuary, or thereabouts, and it works on the head after a while. Living back east, you just take water for granted, cause there is so much of it. It takes on a more prominent role in one’s psyche when there is so little of it.

    Anywho, no matter, the yearly Hummingbird parade is about to start here in a couple of weeks, and my camera is ready.

  8. 8.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    June 18, 2011 at 12:34 am

    .
    .

    President Obama rejected the views of top lawyers at the Pentagon and the Justice Department when he decided that he had the legal authority to continue American military participation in the air war in Libya without Congressional authorization, according to officials familiar with internal administration deliberations.

    Fortunately, President Obama has the guts to listen to John Yoo and not those motherfucking peacenik retard firebaggers. Deciderin’ is still hard work.
    .
    .

  9. 9.

    John Cole

    June 18, 2011 at 12:37 am

    I have heard the voice of John Cole.

    I’m ready to be raptured now.

    That easy? I haven’t even shown you my three inches of dangling fury!

    I am off to bed, as I have to get up in a few hours and start making sauces.

  10. 10.

    jwb

    June 18, 2011 at 12:37 am

    @General Stuck: We’ve already started the hummingbird parade here; they started showing up in numbers about two weeks ago. Very few butterflies so far, however. I blame the drought.

  11. 11.

    JMY

    June 18, 2011 at 12:38 am

    So Dan Choi’s appearance on the Last Word seems to be ruffling some feathers on Twitter.

  12. 12.

    Trurl

    June 18, 2011 at 12:45 am

    Not only is Obama’s war on Libya illegal, he was told so by his own Justice Department.

    All of you who vote for him again will deserve everything you get.

  13. 13.

    joeyess

    June 18, 2011 at 12:45 am

    Cole, using Skype you should try to employ this bit of internet magic. Just engage in the Skype at the appointed time, then after it’s release, edit it like the video above and upload it on youtube.

    A debate with Teh Pantload would be priceless.

  14. 14.

    BD of MN

    June 18, 2011 at 12:47 am

    this is what happens when you only pay partial attention to all the comments: “hummingbird parade” makes complete sense in relation to “three inches of dangling fury”, Skype and Chatroulette….

    (working for a living kept me out of downtown Minneapolis tonight, any chance of a Saturday get-together?)

  15. 15.

    Quicksand

    June 18, 2011 at 12:48 am

    I haven’t even shown you my three inches of dangling fury!

    GAH! Please pass the brain bleach.

  16. 16.

    Roger Moore

    June 18, 2011 at 12:48 am

    @General Stuck:

    but jeebus fucking christ, we haven’t had any measurable precip since it snowed in Febuary, or thereabouts, and it works on the head after a while.

    What’s so odd about 5 months without measurable precipitation? Enquiring Angelinos (actually a Pasadenan in this case) want to know.

    Seriously, going long periods without rain is par for the course if you live in a semi arid area. If going for 5 months without rain is a major mental heath issue, you probably need to move somewhere that has both lots of sun and reasonable levels of precipitation. They do exist.

  17. 17.

    General Stuck

    June 18, 2011 at 12:49 am

    jwb

    We have a few hanging around raising young nearby, of the Broadtailed and Blackchinned species. But almost to the day every year on July 1, the Rufous and Caliope show up and it’s game on. With numbers increasing when all the fledlings show up, then it’s party time until mid September.

    I thought you lived back east, where there has been no drought.

  18. 18.

    General Stuck

    June 18, 2011 at 1:00 am

    If going for 5 months without rain is a major mental heath issue, you probably need to move somewhere that has both lots of sun and reasonable levels of precipitation. They do exist.

    Lived here 12 years, and no, it’s not that unusual. Nor is it unusual that someone on a blog will take ordinary griping as something way more serious than it was meant as.

    Besides, you folks have an ocean nearby.

  19. 19.

    Xenos

    June 18, 2011 at 1:00 am

    Fortunately, President Obama has the guts to listen to John Yoo and not those motherfucking peacenik retard firebaggers. Deciderin’ is still hard work.

    11-dimensional chess time. In case a terminally stupid Republican become president (probability approaches 1), we need the War Powers Act to be functioning. So if he can lose this lawsuit Obama could do more to cut the possibility of the re-emergence of the Unity Doctrine (or whatever they call it) than 20 million hippies could do in decades.

    And if O. wins the lawsuit, maybe some GOP house members with put together a law that will really limit future presidents. I don’t see a downside here…

  20. 20.

    eemom

    June 18, 2011 at 1:01 am

    @ ABL

    [hushed whisper] What does it sound like?

    Is it like The Ten Commandments?

    “I am the John thy Cole, and thou shalt have no other Coles before me.”

  21. 21.

    Comrade Kevin

    June 18, 2011 at 1:02 am

    @ABL: Did you hear dogs barking and a cat yelling in the background?

  22. 22.

    Steeplejack

    June 18, 2011 at 1:03 am

    @Roger Moore:

    You Angelinos also get perfect fucking weather with your no measurable precipitation. Every morning I check the Weather Channel and notice that L.A. is perking along with highs in the mid-60s. Bastards. I think Stuck’s corner of New Mexico is a little more, uh, sere.

  23. 23.

    PeakVT

    June 18, 2011 at 1:07 am

    @trollhattan: FUKUSHIMA FALLOUT – Lessons from Chernobyl

  24. 24.

    MikeJ

    June 18, 2011 at 1:07 am

    Skype is what keeps me off of airplanes. All hail skype. But not too much. I like having others pay for me to go to yurp, just not every goddamned day.

  25. 25.

    General Stuck

    June 18, 2011 at 1:11 am

    I think Stuck’s corner of New Mexico is a little more, uh, sere.

    Not having air conditioning kind of puts an exclamation point on the sere, as well. Wait till about late July and my bitching about being too hot will reach a crescindo

  26. 26.

    Steeplejack

    June 18, 2011 at 1:20 am

    @General Stuck:

    Good luck with the hummers, Stuck. I always like looking at your pictures.

    The last place I lived in Atlanta had a ton of hummers, and it was incredibly relaxing to sit on the screened-in porch and watch them bustling around the feeders. And somewhere I have a picture of my brother in Las Vegas manually feeding a hummer from the cap of a plastic Coke bottle. (Not Coke, sugar water, but they seem to like the color red.)

    And, speaking of your camera being ready, I just lucked into a very good deal on a Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS6, and I’m looking forward to stretching some photo muscles that haven’t had a workout in years. I was looking for something in the small point-and-shoot category that would have enough manual dials and levers to give me the illusion of control, and I think this will do that. Plus it feels good in my hand and looks cool, like something that Cartier-Bresson might have carried in the ’30s. So I guess I’ll be looking for that “decisive moment.” . . . Wait, what? I think that was one that just went by. Damn.

  27. 27.

    Jewish Steel

    June 18, 2011 at 1:23 am

    I imagine Cole’s voice to sound like James Coburn.

    The White Sox have scored 1 run in 27 innings. Nice work, boys.

  28. 28.

    Steeplejack

    June 18, 2011 at 1:25 am

    @Quicksand:

    And yet I can’t turn away.

    ETA: Actually, I think “Three Inches of Dangling Fury” should be a tag for future political sex scandals.

  29. 29.

    AnotherBruce

    June 18, 2011 at 1:56 am

    @20 eemom
    Well, apparently the CIA has other Coles before John.

  30. 30.

    Yutsano

    June 18, 2011 at 1:57 am

    All of you who vote for him again will deserve everything you get.

    Your alternative is…the slick Mormon job destroyer who has more positions than Gumby on speed?

    DO YOU THINK YOU COULD STOP AND THINK FOR A SECOND BEFORE YOU ANSWER A QUESTION??

  31. 31.

    RossInDetroit

    June 18, 2011 at 2:02 am

    Trying out this crazy SKYPE shit.

    If God had meant us to talk into machines he’d have… said so in the Bible or something.

    It just ain’t natural.

  32. 32.

    Comrade Kevin

    June 18, 2011 at 2:04 am

    The people who think they’re going to teach the Democrats a “lesson” from the (cough) “base” are the types who helped give us what’s happening in Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Florida, etc. They’ve already started it again for 2012.

  33. 33.

    Yutsano

    June 18, 2011 at 2:09 am

    They’ve already started it again for 2012.

    I smell rodent copulation. But I have been told I’m cynical.

  34. 34.

    FlipYrWhig

    June 18, 2011 at 2:18 am

    The people who think they’re going to teach the Democrats a “lesson” from the (cough) “base” are the types who helped give us what’s happening in Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana, Florida, etc.

    No, they don’t get credit or blame for that. There are too few of them. Far, far too few of them.

  35. 35.

    IrishGirl

    June 18, 2011 at 2:18 am

    Awwww, John wants his happy Skype ending….somebody has to give it to him, right?

    (I’m just being a bitch, never mind my sideshow…maybe if I pull out a wiener, take a picture and tweet it, someone will notice)

  36. 36.

    Comrade Kevin

    June 18, 2011 at 2:22 am

    @IrishGirl: Since this is an Open Thread, have you seen Rory McIlroy at the US Open? Every time I hear his voice on the TV, I love, love, love it. It used to be you only heard that wonderful accent when something got blown up. When I hear it, it reminds me of family.

  37. 37.

    Yutsano

    June 18, 2011 at 2:27 am

    It used to be you only heard that wonderful accent when something got blown up.

    He’s from Ulster? SWEET!!

  38. 38.

    Comrade Kevin

    June 18, 2011 at 2:41 am

    He’s from Ulster? SWEET!!

    He is indeed!

  39. 39.

    Roger Moore

    June 18, 2011 at 2:45 am

    @Steeplejack:
    Yeah, we get great weather until summer arrives. Then it gets fucking hot any place that isn’t smack by the coast, and even right by the coast if there’s a Santa Anna. I’ve seen it peak over 100 degrees every day for well over a week, and I’ve personally measured it at 115 at my work. Admittedly, it’s a dry heat, what with the lack of precipitation and all, but it’s still melt your brain hot.

  40. 40.

    Steeplejack

    June 18, 2011 at 3:04 am

    @Roger Moore:

    Dude, spare me your apologetic outlier-weather anecdata. The fact remains that your average daily high is around 80° this month and soars into the mid-80s the rest of the summer. I’d take that in a heartbeat.

  41. 41.

    Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal

    June 18, 2011 at 3:14 am

    so the big anti-gay gun is david tyree?

    i would like to take that as a positive sign.

  42. 42.

    Steeplejack

    June 18, 2011 at 3:14 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Testing . . .

    Checking to see whether a shorter version of the handmade reply gizmo works.

    ETA: Yeah, it works.

    If you want a quick and dirty reply gizmo:

    @PERSON’S NAME:

    Replace COMMENT NUMBER with the actual number of the comment to which you want to reply (visible when you hover over the “link” button for that comment).

    Replace PERSON’S NAME with the name of that commenter.

  43. 43.

    mk3872

    June 18, 2011 at 3:18 am

    So, another successful Netroots wrapping up this week, right?

    Another opportunity to show the MSM and conservatives that one thing all progressives can agree on is that we shoot our own if you ain’t “pure” enough.

    Did you read tonight’s post on FDL by Scarecrow?

    “I’m not support or voting for Pres Obama”.

    He then goes on to give a laundry of reasons why he feels that Romney would do the exact same things as Obama and why -get this- Obama is WORSE than Bush.

    It’s amazing the # of things that you have to cherry-pick and ignore to believe that sort of junk.

    But this is the result on over-focusing on nasty commentary by folks like Greenwald (ignore Obama’s assertion that waterboarding is torture and exec order to close Gitmo) to believe that he’s worse than Bush and Cole’s complete lack of credit to Obama for his success against terrorism to rail against actions in Libya and Pakistan.

    Congrats, progressives, for giving us the Tea Party congress and Tea Party president. Thanks!

  44. 44.

    Steeplejack

    June 18, 2011 at 3:19 am

    @Steeplejack:

    Testing . . .

    Checking to see whether a shorter version of the handmade reply gizmo works.

    ETA: Yeah, it works.

    If you want a quick and dirty reply gizmo:

    @&#060a href=”#comment-COMMENT NUMBER” rel=”nofollow”&#062PERSON’S NAME&#060/a&#062:

    Replace COMMENT NUMBER with the actual number of the comment to which you want to reply (visible when you hover over the “link” button for that comment).

    Replace PERSON’S NAME with the name of that commenter.

    ETA: My comment at 42 was farkled by FYWP. FYWPWAVRPF!

    ETFA: I think this version might cure the “hexadecimal shmutz” problem that Yutsano and asiangrrrlMN were having in their browsers last night. Nota bene.

  45. 45.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 18, 2011 at 3:27 am

    @Steepman: You are so cute the way you keep trying.

    S’up, my dogs?

    ETA: It didn’t work, and then I removed the extra quotes, and it worked!

  46. 46.

    Yutsano

    June 18, 2011 at 3:29 am

    @Steeplejack: Hmm…maybe.

    EDIT: I just did old-fashioned HTML linkage. But too much work for me. Bah.

  47. 47.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 18, 2011 at 3:31 am

    @Yutsy: Honnnnnnnnney! You’re hoooooome!

  48. 48.

    Yutsano

    June 18, 2011 at 3:32 am

    @ wifey: Yesh. And slightly cranky. But at least I’m nekkid. :)

  49. 49.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 18, 2011 at 3:34 am

    @Yutsy: Well, that does ME no good!

    ETA: Wooooot! I figured it out.

  50. 50.

    Comrade Kevin

    June 18, 2011 at 3:44 am

    @mk3872: Why, no, I didn’t read that crap. I’m getting tired of the Hamchoiwalds trying to hijack the whole thing to push their bullshit.

  51. 51.

    Yutsano

    June 18, 2011 at 3:44 am

    @Wifey: What I done did now?

    (I think as a patch this will work in the interim. I highly encourage a blog fix soon however. We iz a fickle lot round these parts.)

  52. 52.

    BruceK

    June 18, 2011 at 3:46 am

    Skype is … well, what you make of it. If you know people you talk to a lot, then it makes sense. For me, Skype means folding my international phone bill into my broadband bill (which saves a big chunk of money) with the added bonus that phone calls to the folks back home now come with added 2001-video-phone style “isn’t it cool to be living in the future?” gee-whiz-ness.

    Not just for geeks, either; my mom and her sister (one in New York, the other in Athens, both pensioners) have made long Skype video calls a part of their daily routine. Gives an added dimension to the conversation when you can see and not just hear the people you’re talking to … though you can always turn off the camera and just talk, if that’s your thing.

    It’s a tool. Someone could cave in someone else’s skull with a frozen rack of ribs, but that doesn’t make baby-back ribs an inherently deadly weapon.

  53. 53.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 18, 2011 at 3:52 am

    @Yutsy: You being nekkid does ME no good. We have a true Republican fake-marriage.

  54. 54.

    Steeplejack

    June 18, 2011 at 3:53 am

    @asiangrrlMN :

    You laugh, but this was troubling my dreams last night. I finally figured out that this short version would probably work for people with the “hex shmutz” problem, and it was my duty to get the word out.

    Having said that, I’m about to go to bed. I have gargled through a bottle of champers to celebrate the start of the three-day weekend, and I need to try to get a haircut at some point tomorrow morning. My go-to gal, who does a great job, is leaving to go to another place, and I need to get a (long overdue) haircut before she disappears. Will decide later whether to follow her to the new (and very expensive–yay for her!) place or find another person at the current place (which is very convenient). I keep getting these middle-aged Asian women who want to cut my hair like that rugged noncom dude they knew back in Saigon in ’73. High and tight. Not really my look. Not now, anyway.

    ETA: That reminds me: where has Soonergrunt been lately? Haven’t seen him at all. Or have I just missed him?

  55. 55.

    Yutsano

    June 18, 2011 at 3:58 am

    @Wifey: Oh shush. You’ll be knocking boots with your Canuckistani soon enough. I expect at least pictures you know.

    @Steeplejack: You ask a good question, though I think he posted a couple days back. He did turn into ebil gubmint worker like me though.

  56. 56.

    IrishGirl

    June 18, 2011 at 4:04 am

    @Comrade Kevin Actually Ulster accents don’t do much for me I’m afraid. My family are all from the south and west…Munster towns like Limerick, Cork and Dublin. I may be Irish American, but I can tell the difference between their accents. ;)

  57. 57.

    asiangrrlMN

    June 18, 2011 at 4:12 am

    @Steepman, aw, poor baby. I’m glad you were able to figure it out. And, I hear ya on the hair-cutting dilemma. Fortunately, I just have to trim the ends of my hair once every other month or so.

    @Yutsy, true! In less than a week! No pictures of boot-knocking, though. I do have SOME sense of decorum (not much, but a little).

    OK. I’m outie. Y’all keep it real for me.

  58. 58.

    bryanD

    June 18, 2011 at 4:43 am

    Good overview of the Obama Administration’s “gunwalker” scandal.

    http://globalorganizedcrime.foreignpolicyblogs.com/2011/05/31/atfs-fast-furious-obamas-weaponsgate/

  59. 59.

    jaleh

    June 18, 2011 at 6:39 am

    I just happened to go to FDL, that site is a right-wing site, no ifs and buts about it. The comments there are the same as redstate.

  60. 60.

    stuckinred

    June 18, 2011 at 6:43 am

    jaleh –

    scarecrow has really gone off the deep end. How the fuck do they know what Mitt would do?

  61. 61.

    jaleh

    June 18, 2011 at 7:02 am

    stuckinred:

    I am in Europe right now, and it’s amazing that you don’t find one person who does not think Obama is amazing.

    We just drove through the highways in France, not ONE pot-hole, the roads are unbelievable and so well maintained. Then you have these a-holes, not believing in government. I just can’t get my head around Republicans, then you have FDL!! yikes. depressing. So, FDL people think Mitt will fix the roads better than if you have Obama in the office? OR, he will sign the gay marriage law? Why do they even claim they are Dems?

  62. 62.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 18, 2011 at 7:23 am

    Against my better judgment and at the suggestion of @mk3872, I peeked at the front page of FDL. The lead political headline: “Late Night: At NN11, White House Propagandist Pfeiffer Preps for President Romney” by Scarecrow. I’m not linking it. You can look for yourself if you like.

    Bad thing to do first thing in the morning on a fine saturday. The conclusion:

    The point is, Barack Obama was handed a once in a lifetime opportunity to be the agent of needed change, but he blew it. He did only what the original anti-Bush momentum would have demanded of a moderate Republican, and then he became the opponent of real change at every level. He deliberately threw away the opportunity for change and became the destroyer of hope.
    __
    No man with that record of failure, misrepresentation, and betrayal should be rewarded with another term. And if we have to put up with a moral chameleon like Mitt Romney, indistinguishable from Obama, in order to demolish Obamism and what it has done to a once proud but now thoroughly corrupt and complicit Democratic Party, then so be it.

    Holy Fucking Shit. I had no ideal Obama Derangement Syndrome was that bad.

    Obamism destroyed a once-proud party? WTF? I mean, WTFF!?!

    ETA: the comments are just as bad. Ugh. I need a shower, some brain bleach, something to make sure none of that weapons-level stupidity rubbed off.

  63. 63.

    liberal

    June 18, 2011 at 7:25 am

    President Obama rejected the views of top lawyers at the Pentagon and the Justice Department when he decided that he had the legal authority to continue American military participation in the air war in Libya…

  64. 64.

    lacp

    June 18, 2011 at 7:26 am

    Hey, it’s too early on a Saturday morning for this sour stuff. Here’s something to chill out with:
    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/icy-beauty-goes-skinny-dipping-with-beluga-whales-the-shy-dancers-of-the-deep/story-e6freuy9-1226077408684

  65. 65.

    liberal

    June 18, 2011 at 7:27 am

    @mk3872 blithered,

    Congrats, progressives, for giving us the Tea Party congress and Tea Party president.

    Uh, no. It was abysmal economic conditions that gave us the Tea Party congress. (House, actually.)

  66. 66.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 18, 2011 at 7:30 am

    @liberal: I’ve seen that headline pop up several times over the last coupla days. It’s incredibly misleading, as is the lede of the story that follows.

    “It should come as no surprise that there would be some disagreements, even within an administration, regarding the application of a statute that is nearly 40 years old to a unique and evolving conflict,” Mr. Schultz said. “Those disagreements are ordinary and healthy.”

    And

    That position has attracted criticism. Jack L. Goldsmith, who led the Office of Legal Counsel during the Bush administration, has written that the administration’s interpretation is “aggressive” and unpersuasive, although he also acknowledged that there was no clear answer and little chance of a definitive court ruling, so the reaction of Congress would resolve it.
    __
    Walter Dellinger, who led the Office of Legal Counsel during the Clinton administration, said that while “this is not an easy question,” Mr. Obama’s position was “both defensible and consistent with the position of previous administrations.” Still, he criticized the administration’s decision-making process.

    Not like politics would play a role in how this action should be interpreted by a bunch of lawyers.

    Thanks for playing the meme, NYT.

  67. 67.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 18, 2011 at 7:30 am

    @65 liberal:

    Uh, no. It was abysmal economic conditions that gave us the Tea Party congress.

    Um, yeah.

  68. 68.

    Jethro Troll

    June 18, 2011 at 7:32 am

    A story about a dog
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13819764
    It will probably not cheer you up.

  69. 69.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 8:06 am

    @Steeplejack:

    “You Angelinos also get perfect fucking weather with your no measurable precipitation. Every morning I check the Weather Channel and notice that L.A. is perking along with highs in the mid-60s.”

    Check back with us in September when the Santa Ana winds are blowing 40 miles an hour, it’s 105 with 12 percent humidity, and the entire fucking world is on fire.

  70. 70.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 8:09 am

    @liberal:

    A client didn’t follow his lawyers’ advice? Zounds! I shall now faint dead away.

  71. 71.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 8:12 am

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Holy fucking shit, indeed.

  72. 72.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 18, 2011 at 8:13 am

    @burnspbesq:

    A client didn’t follow his lawyers’ advice? Zounds! I shall now faint dead away.

    Even that isn’t accurate. He had advice that pointed in two different directions and he took one direction not the other.

    Even the BBC is screwing up this story: “Barack Obama ‘overruled top legal advice.”

    Barack Obama overruled the advice of administration lawyers in deciding the US could continue participating in the Libya conflict without congressional approval, The New York Times reports.

    The newspaper report said Pentagon General Counsel Jeh Johnson and acting head of the justice department’s Office of Legal Counsel Caroline Krass had advised Mr Obama that the US involvement in the Libya air campaign constituted “hostilities”.
    __
    But the US president opted to follow the advice of White House counsel Robert Bauer and state department legal adviser Harold Koh, who argued the US involvement fell short of “hostilities”, the paper said.

    ETA: Italics added to point out the contradictory parts of the paragraphs. He didn’t ignore top legal advice. He took advice that differed, and chose one set of advice over the other. Geez, is it really that hard, journalists?

  73. 73.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 8:24 am

    Speaking of folks from Ulster …

    http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=hmK5WDQ3kUs

  74. 74.

    JPL

    June 18, 2011 at 8:26 am

    @Jethry:
    It was a rabbi not an imam so no problem. Can you imagine the reaction if it was a Muslim.

    edit..my reply didn’t work. The message was in response to Jethro @ 68

  75. 75.

    Trurl

    June 18, 2011 at 8:33 am

    He took advice that differed, and chose one set of advice over the other.

    “Hm. Who is likelier to be right on whether bombing a country to kill its leader constitutes hostilities under the War Powers Act? The Pentagon General Counsel and the acting head of the Justice Department? Or the guy who was my personal lawyer? Ah, fuck it… I’m just going to listen to the one who says it’s OK for me to have my war.”

  76. 76.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 8:40 am

    @ Trurl:

    Hmmm … Who should I believe here, Walter Dellinger or some random Balloon-Juice troll? Tough call.

  77. 77.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 18, 2011 at 8:41 am

    @Trurl

    Ah, fuck it… I’m just going to listen to the one who says it’s OK for me to have my war.”

    Show us on the doll where Obummer touched you.

  78. 78.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 18, 2011 at 8:43 am

    @ Trurl: The State Dep’t and the lawyer whose job it is to provide legal advice to the President (not the “guy who was my personal lawyer”) vs. the Defense Dep’t and the acting head of the OLC. Seems like a wash to me. Of course, that isn’t as fun as rhetorical bomb throwing.

  79. 79.

    jaywillie

    June 18, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Okay, so I peeked at Scarecrow’s daft post at Firebaggerpuddle and this…

    You’ve had your chance to prove you are indeed different, and you’ve failed on every front. Even though I have often decried the intolerant, inhumane, radical extremism, nuttiness and willful ignorance of what the Tea-GOP has become, I no longer believe that President Obama is meaningly[sic] different from what President Mitt Romney would be or indeed would have been.

    …is just the epitome of the myopic obliviousness of some on the left. Let’s take one example from this past week: the House Republicans gutting funding for implementing new food safety regulations, regulations pushed for by Pres. Obama and passed by Democrats (every Democrat voted against this current House GOP insanity, during the debate of which Rep. Jack Kingston argued that we don’t need such regulations because the private sector “polices itself,” which is just GOPspeak for, “The private sector can do whatever the hell it likes.”) Let’s consider what’s happening in states like PA, WI, MI, FL, OH, and NJ. Sure, my ex-gov Rendell was a bit of a sleaze, but he NEVER gutted education funding or scapegoated nurses, police officers, firefighters, the poor, the sick, the elderly, and children to enact draconian budget cuts. These schmucks are just absolutists and ideological dogmatists who have never successfully advocated for any lasting policy changes in their lives.

  80. 80.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 8:43 am

    This is a pretty thoughtful look at the WPA/Libya question.

    http://opiniojuris.org/2011/06/16/latest-on-war-powers-and-libya-resurrecting-the-wpr-probably-not/

  81. 81.

    Trurl

    June 18, 2011 at 8:45 am

    Seems like a wash to me.

    And when in doubt, always err on the side of starting a war. After all, it will be over in days, not weeks…

  82. 82.

    arguingwithsignposts

    June 18, 2011 at 8:47 am

    @Trurl – You seem to forget who was pushing for this action. Hint: It wasn’t the U.S.

    But please, continue with your rich fantasy life.

  83. 83.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 8:52 am

    Mark Kleiman figures out Obama’s fiendish plot, with help from Michelle Bachmann.

    http://www.samefacts.com/2011/06/watching-conservatives/the-plot-revealed/

  84. 84.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 18, 2011 at 8:53 am

    @ Trurl: Excellent job of goal post shifting there.

  85. 85.

    handsmile

    June 18, 2011 at 8:53 am

    I’m new to the Open Threads portion of “The John Cole and Friends Show,” so am unfamiliar with protocol. But if international news stories are permissible on a Saturday morning, this item accompanied my first cuppa and muffin:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/18/us-talks-taliban-karzai

    There’s also yet another story on the unfolding catastrophe (3 months on and years more to go) that remains Fukushima Daiichi. [Sorry couldn’t get the link to work.]

  86. 86.

    Trurl

    June 18, 2011 at 8:55 am

    You seem to forget who was pushing for this action. Hint: It wasn’t the U.S.

    Oh yes, I forgot – despite its superficial resemblance to a war of aggression against yet another oil-exporting Muslim country, this is merely a “kinetic military action”. Thanks for the correction.

    Poor Obama… a peace-loving man ruthlessly bullied by the more powerful members of NATO into a conflict he would have preferred to avoid.

    There’s another significant and telling parallel between Obama’s illegal war and the Bush eavesdropping scandal. One of the questions frequently asked about the NSA scandal was why Bush and Cheney decided to eavesdrop in violation of the law rather than having Congress approve their program; in the wake of 9/11, both parties in Congress were as subservient as could be, and would have offered zero resistance to requests by the administration for increased eavesdropping powers (the same question was asked of Bush’s refusal to seek Congressional approval for the detention and military commissions regime at Guantanamo). The answer to that question ultimately became clear: they did not want to seek Congressional approval, even though they easily could have obtained it, because they wanted to establish the “principle” that the President is omnipotent in these areas and needs nobody’s permission (neither from Congress nor the courts) to do what the President wants.

    http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/06/18/libya/index.html

  87. 87.

    Alex S.

    June 18, 2011 at 8:56 am

    I’m not sure how the War Powers Act deals with multilateral actions. There is a UN resolution that has to be executed, there is a NATO action that has to be supported. Anyway, as soon as the US recognizes the Benghazi government as the official government of Libya actions against Ghadafi aren’t hostilities against foreign powers anymore.

  88. 88.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 9:23 am

    You seem to forget who was pushing for this action. Hint: It wasn’t the U.S.

    This. The action against the Libyan regime was authorized by the UNSC. That resolution, and the UN Charter, impose certain obligations on the United States. Congress can override a treaty by subsequent legislation, but in non-tax cases the courts typically require clear evidence of Congressional intent before finding an override. See, e.g., Cook v. United States, 288 U.S. 102 (1933). The WPA, as I read it, is internally inconsistent; it’s difficult to reconcile section 1547(a)(2) and section 1547(d)(1). So I think it’s a very open question whether there is clear evidence of an intent to override, particularly given the absence of any statement about treaty obligations in section 1541.

  89. 89.

    Trurl

    June 18, 2011 at 9:28 am

    That resolution, and the UN Charter, impose certain obligations on the United States.

    And yet, bizarrely, even though Obama, according to you, could have said, “Sorry, guys, I don’t like this war any more than you do, but it’s an obligation imposed on me”, instead he went the shit-on-your-plate-and-call-it-pate route of claiming that it’s not actually a war.

    That doesn’t make sense to me. But then I’m not an 11-dimensional chess grandmaster.

  90. 90.

    Alex S.

    June 18, 2011 at 9:31 am

    That doesn’t make sense to me. But then I’m not an 11-dimensional chess grandmaster.

    You know, he did it just to confuse you. He can be a real troll sometimes.

  91. 91.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 9:34 am

    @Alex S.:

    I don’t think any action by Obama was needed to achieve that result.

  92. 92.

    eemom

    June 18, 2011 at 9:57 am

    @ burnspbesq

    I had Walter Dellinger for Con Law first year. He’d show up for class 10 minutes late every day and he spent the first six weeks blathering about Marbury v. Madison. Wearing tight jeans and strutting his, um, stuff for the viewing pleasure of folks in the front rows.

    Also too, I FIRST saw him a party in August 1984 before classes started. He was drunk as a skunk and grabbing the ass of every woman he could reach.

    It is easy to see how he and Bill Clinton got along like the proverbial house on fire.

  93. 93.

    Bruce S

    June 18, 2011 at 10:22 am

    If you’ve got kids or grandkids in another part of the country/world, Skype is great. This said from someone who avoids Twitter like the plague and doesn’t even like to text message.

    Also this – the deficit hype has totally poisoned our politics. Evidence increases from England that it’s a recipe for disaster. The Dems’ timidity and cow-towing to Tea Party bullshit drives me crazy…
    http://titanicsailsatdawn.blogspot.com/2011/06/more-on-dangers-inherent-in-austerity.html

    We’re screwed. And, although I believe Obama will be re-elected, it’s because the GOPers are shooting themselves in the foot with crazy over-reach when, in fact, they’ve largely succeeded in setting the terms of economic debate. Not a pretty sight on either side – insanity vs. timidity.

  94. 94.

    Skepticat

    June 18, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Skype is the only “phone service” available to me in the Bahamas, and it’s vital. Quick, easy, and free–what’s not to like? Even the cost to call cells and landlines is minimal. I’ve tried all the other VoIPs, and Skype is my favorite.

    That said, now that I’m back in the States for hurricane season and have access to actual phone service, I must admit that I hate phones, so having one isn’t necessarily a good thing.

  95. 95.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    @eemom:

    All of which says exactly zero about his analytical abilities.

    I had Eustice for Reorgs in the LL.M. program at NYU. The worst teacher I ever had, even worse that Sister Mary Atilla in third grade. But he literally wrote the book on corporate tax.

    The point is that neither being a lousy teacher or being a cretin correlates especially well with being able to get to the right answer to a difficult question.

  96. 96.

    eemom

    June 18, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    I wasn’t suggesting that it did, burns. I just thought it was a funny story.

  97. 97.

    burnspbesq

    June 18, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    @ eemom:

    At least your guy blathered about a case that’s still relevant. My guy blathered about Shreveport and Carolene Products.

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