(Jack Ohman via GoComics.com)
__
Nick Davies and his fellows at the Guardian are, quite deservedly, basking in the sweet schadenfreude of the News of the World phone-hacking scandal. Murdoch’s “fifth daughter” Rebekah Brooks is dropping hints that she’s got plenty of explosive nastiness left to trade, the usual suspects are speculating about the dynastic challenges within the mustelidaean Murdoch clan, and famous former targets of ‘Rupert the Dirty Digger’ are gleefully bashing him on-camera. Murdoch’s bid to establish a British version of Fox News has been, at the least, seriously compromised. There might even be Parlimentary repercussions.
Hat tip to commentor Pongo:
Rupert’s son may be brought up on charges for paying hush money and the Prime Minister, David Cameron, is under attack for bringing a former Murdoch editor, Andy Coulson, into the inner sanctum as his press adviser AFTER he had already been arrested once on charges related to illegal phone hacking (he’s just been arrested for the second time yesterday and is out on bail)… Cameron, Andrew Sullivan’s man-crush, brought a known Murdoch spy into the Prime Minister’s office and gave him top security clearance. Is it just me, or does this seem like a really, really bad idea? Murdoch is certainly powerful enough to sweep a lot under the rug, but this might get too ugly even for his cleaning machine.
Of course, a few arrests on some exotic overseas island are not going to make much of an impression on Fox viewers in Heartland America(tm), but perhaps the vast sums required to staunch the wounds to his global empire will further estrange Murdoch (or whomever ends up with control of the news division) from Roger Ailes and his expensive support of the GOP Clown Parade?
Nellcote
going global
cathyx
I hope they all turn on each other, in true reptilian form, and spill all the dirt. That would make for some good reading.
PeakVT
What are the odds of the scandal bringing the Con/Lib government down? The polling seems to have Labour up by quite a bit over the Cons, and the LibDems’ support has collapsed.
Southern Beale
Speaking of failed media experiments, CBS faked its coverage of the Boston fireworks show.
At this point, I just wash my hands of our media. There’s just nothing more to say.
Sarah Proud and Tall
Joseph Nobles
Boehner has shelved talks of a “grand bargain” of $4 trillion for the debt ceiling. Only a mid-range deal of $2 trillion is “politically possible,” he says. The Republicans are tearing themselves apart on this issue – the tension between Boehner and Cantor is palpable.
And so of course that means I’ve just spotted my first “primary Obama” tweet with an actual name. I was going to stop following the account, but the name was Bernie Sanders. So I’ve decided to find it charming.
Anonymous At Work
Alternatively, this incident could serve to push Murdoch closer to the most politically-backed part of his Empire.
TheOtherWA
I seem to remember reading about dissension in the Murdoch family before all this happened, so they should start turning on each other any second now. Cathyx, I hope it’s a bloodbath, figuratively speaking, of course. :)
JPL
Sarah, You are suffering from a Delusional disorder if you think that we will go after fox.. Murdoch has gone to court over a news channel (I believe in FL) and said they are not responsible because rather than news they are an entertainment channel.. It’s time to sleep with him and spill the dirt.
Southern Beale
Oh, bullshit. I just checked Bernie Sanders’ Twitter feed and did not see a Tweet from him stating that Obama should be primaried. So cut the divisive BS.
If someone Tweeted that Bernie Sanders should be the one to primary Obama, well everyone is entitled to their opinion but it doesn’t mean a damn thing. I’ve seen people throw out Hillary Clinton’s name too. So what.
Obama won’t be primaried. Concern trolling from the middle is as annoying as concerning trolling from the far left.
Suffern ACE
@SPT – Not certain if other entities practice that. I thought the more damn charge was collecting dirt on the investigator and his wife to see if they could get him removed. That’s not even furthering business interests by collecting exclusive news stories. I get the feeling though that more than a few companies would start to shit bricks if interfering with investigations were scrutinized by the SEC.
Joseph Nobles
Sorry to be unclear, Southern Beale. The account calling for a primary account wasn’t Bernie Sanders. Bernie was the one the account wanted as a primary opponent. And Bernie would never, which is why I found it charming.
scav
@Southern Beale: Point out the essential similarity of this position to “I consider exhibitions of patriotism as unreal and simple entertainment to be staged and reworked at will and need”, splice in some pointed comparisons between laugh-tracks and patriotism-tracks and there’s the beginning of a nice pointy message. No reason to go all Nuremburg even although . . . maybe splicing in shots of Milli Vanilli into shots from that might be surreal enough to be a giggle.
moe99
Actually this is a solid business decision by Murdoch. He closes one newspaper, lays off a bunch of workers and gets another (the Sun) to publish on Sundays. Problem solved. And he saves a bunch of money.
Southern Beale
@Joseph Nobles:
Fine, apologies. From how your comment is worded it sounds like you were saying you saw Bernie Sanders says Obama should be primaried.
There will always be people saying whatever and none of it matters. The New York Times did a story on it back in December, even. It’s nothing new, liberals always do this.
Andrew
News alert: Boehner just pulled out of talks for a big deficit deal over Obama’s insistence on tax increases… says they should go back for a $2 tril. deal based on the Biden talks.
JGabriel
Anne Laurie:
That seems awfully unfair to weasels.
.
Anne Laurie
JGabriel:
I was thinking badgers, or maybe wolverines. It’s the photo — all nasty, beady little eyes and protruding jaws full of teeth.
Villago Delenda Est
From the Wiki writeup on Tommorow Never Dies, the 1997 installment in the James Bond movie franchise:
Jonathan Pryce as Elliot Carver, a media mogul modelled on Robert Maxwell, but analysed as a satire on Rupert Murdoch. He is completely insane and possibly even psychopathic, with scant regard for any of the lives destroyed or simply taken as a result of his media ambition.
Completely insane and possibly psychopathic. That pretty much describes this entire phone hacking scandal.
rikyrah
BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA AH A
JGabriel
Polly Toynbee:
Just adding a touch more info/speculation to the story Sarah excerpted above, from a different article, also in The Guardian.
.
jl
@18:
Hyaenidaean? How about Hyaenidaean?
Mustelidaean brings in cute little otters. To specify weasals, it would Mustelan.
But mustelidaean has a ring to it. I can sound very distinguished:
They come from an ancient mustelidaean clan with arcane talents for peculation and simony.
Or you can go to the street with it:
I’m gonna cap that mustelidaean m * t h * r f * c k * r!
(not that prudish, but I don’t trust WP)
BTW, while googling these critters, I found this, which might come in handy in these slim times for B J readers with wedding bells on the horizon. Cole should note it down.
Toilet paper wedding dress contest winners: 12 bridal gowns you could buy with a coupon.
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/sex/toilet-paper-wedding-dress-contest-winners-12-bridal-gowns-you-could-buy-with-a-coupon-2508828
Suffern ACE
@Southern Beale:
That doesn’t sound like much of a news story. Are you sure that wasn’t a Maureen Dowd column?
hilts
This Is How the World ends
h/t http://www.cjr.org/behind_the_news/this_is_how_the_world_ends.php
JGabriel
@Anne Laurie:
I see the physical resemblance, but whatever viciousness they possess is presumed to be function of being conscienceless and non-human, whereas the Murdochs are …
Oh. Right.
.
hilts
The Audit TV: Murdoch Hacking Scandal
h/t http://www.cjr.org/the_audit/the_audit_tv_murdoch_hacking_s.php
jl
@23 and @26
Thanks for those stories. Looks like Labour has decided to burn the bridges and march forward and keep this a major political issue. Looks like hope that Sky deal will be real trouble. The Guardian story reveals Cameron to be a miserable conniving goody two shoes little mustelidaean Murdochian liar, which I kinda expected, but have not been following UK politics that closely recently.
WaterGirl
The professional left THRILLED because President Obama is insisting on the tax increases. Right?
jl
I think Murdoch looks more hyena than weasel.
Kind of a cross between a hyena and an rabid emaciated basset hound. Is there a word for that?
(And now the dog people will be angry with me)
cbear
Anne Laurie:
Great post. Thank you.
PaulW
In England, the Lib Dems should be using this to break their coalition with the Conservatives, especially since PM Cameron has a direct connection to one of those just arrested.
What exactly are the rules on a coalition government? Can a junior member of the coalition break with the larger party with a simple vote? Is there a time limit to where a government coalition has to stay enforced? Also, I thought UK Parliament had a “Vote of No Confidence” system in place.
JGabriel
@jl:
Joe Lieberman?
.
Darcy
Listen to moe99 @15, he’s right. Listen to this at 6.38 minutes in, John Finnemore lays it out pretty brilliantly. The whole show is amusing, but that’s some good stuff.
jl
@30
I will be pleased if Obama does not cave on Social Security or harmful Medicare benefit cuts and say so. Maybe this is N dimensional chess played by jiggling the board rather than actually touching the pieces. I hope for the best outcome for the US.
I do not see how the themes Obama keeps repeating on macroeconomics is part of N dimensional chess, though I have already admitted several times I quite trying to understand the politics of it.
Even if we can escape a debt ceiling mess, Brad DeLong has posts calculating that, proportionally, the fiscal contraction in the US will be greater than in the UK between now and the election. So, if the debt ceiling issue is resolved, then look to UK for a good estimate of how bad the economy will be here for 2012.
I guess I am not thrillable on US economic policy right now.
liberal
One silver lining to all the political problems we’re having now re the debt limit, etc—at least we don’t have to put up with that insufferable prick David Broder this time around!
hilts
The omertà of Britain’s press and politicians on phone-hacking amounts to complicity in crime
h/t http://www.spectator.co.uk/print/essays/7075673/what-the-papers-wont-say.thtml
scav
Darcy: Ditto Ditto on the Now Show / Finnemore bit. Although to hear sense coming out of Arthur’s voice is a little disconcerting. John Finnemore’s got an unexpectedly fine rant in him. Right up there with Marcus Brigstocke and David Mitchell.
J. Michael Neal
JPL:
It doesn’t matter what Fox claims. The FCPA (Foreign Corrupt Practices Act) is, in some ways, the predecessor to Sarbanes-Oxley. If a company, or any of its subsidiaries, or anyone in any of its subsidiaries, bribes a foreign official (like, say, a police officer at any level) in the furtherance of the business, that company is guilty of a felony. Anyone who had knowledge of it can be prosecuted individually.
Suffern ACE:
It isn’t interfering with an investigation per se that will get them in hot water. It is bribing an official of a foreign government that will get them in trouble. Now, I grant that the UK wasn’t the type of country they authors of the FCPA had in mind, but it certainly applies. The other sorts of interfering, like digging dirt on the investigator, might get them in trouble in Britain, but not the US. The bribery will get them in trouble here.
WaterGirl
I think the right thing for President Obama is to stand his ground and insist that if there are cuts there are also tax increases for the wealthy. I really think he needs to call their bluff. i will be happy to if he stands his ground on cuts to benefits from social security and medicare.
In negotiations, or anything important, i think you have to know what your bottom line is, what you really value, and make sure that in reaching a compromise that you don’t compromise the core of what you want. Obama knows that. Still, I am holding my breath on this whole thing.
It’s the old curse – “may you live in interesting times”.
JCT
It’s just a flesh wound.
Run away, run away!!
hilts
@jl: “I think Murdoch looks more hyena than weasel.”
On Valentine’s Day of this year [1994] , fate blew the fifty-eight-year-old Dennis Potter a little kiss, as he put it. He learned he had cancer of the pancreas, which had spread to his liver. Potter christened his cancer Rupert, after the publisher Rupert Murdoch, who he said had done more than anyone else to pollute the body politic.
h/t http://www.newyorker.com/archive/1994/06/20/1994_06_20_090_TNY_CARDS_000367781
Mr Stagger Lee
Lord show President Obama the light, this is a gift that has landed in his lap. Guide him and have him have the DOJ, open a probe on spying here in the US, then Lord show him the righteous anger of revoking Fox’s FCC license, put fear in the souls of O’Reilly, Ailles, Napolitano. Lord open the President’s and let justice rain down on the Unrighteous and Ungodly Fox, let his justice wax hot on Hannity
Suffern ACE
@liberal- we only have to deal with the crappy mentees he left behind. But the fact that you aren’t struck by lightening for writing that sentiment in public kind of shows that someone upstairs might agree.
kd bart
I can’t wait to see how Fox blames this whole British mess on George Soros.
Southern Beale
Heard Bohener “pulled a Palin.” LOL. Love that “Palin” has become synonymous with quitting.
quincy
Wow!!! What a tragic tale. I recently read the rolling stone article on the death of the Notorious B.I.G and the implied corruption of the Los Angeles police department, LA Times, and LA district attorney’s office. Also saw a recent post about it as well. The LA Times? Now what motivates the media to act in this fashion? Why are there always leaks?
cathyx
WaterGirl:
Really? You would be ok with cuts to social security and medicare? Do you call yourself a democrat? You just agreed to go down that slippery slope of cutting social services. Shame on you. I don’t care what the republicans agree to in exchange for it. That should not be in any deal that Obama makes.
WaterGirl
#48, cathyx
hang on, i was unclear. I think he needs to stand his ground on RESISTING cuts to benefits.
Edit: I never believed that Obama would actually negotiate a cut in benefits.
cathyx
WaterGirl
You wrote:
That sounds like you think he should use cuts to negotiate for tax increases.
RossInDetroit
Wait. Did Josh Marshall say “Boehner pulls out”? It took me three looks to discover what seemed odd in that. I’m definitely getting old.
boss bitch
fucking fucking christ. there are no fucking cuts to SS, Medicare or Medicaid. enough with this shit. What’s the next panic when all these fears don’t come to be? that he’ll do it in his 2nd term? He was supposed to have cut, gut, and slashed all these things about 3 times already and each fucking time it never happened.
JGabriel
@cathyx: WaterGirl was typing fast and left out a word (“Resisting”). It happens to many of us. I know I’ve done it repeatedly, though I often catch it in time to correct it in editing.
Unfortunately, it changed the meaning of what she meant, which she has since clarified.
No need to press it any further.
.
WaterGirl
#50 cathyx
By “IF there are cuts” I mean spending cuts in general, not cuts to social security and medicare.
Let’s just agree that my original post was very poorly worded. It’s clear to me from your comments in response to my post that you and I share the same point of view. The wording of my original post was sloppy.
JGabriel
@efgoldman:
But we can still send the Dream Police after Murdoch, right?
.
Mr Stagger Lee
@efgoldman
Well at least I tried, maybe if the spygate carries criminal charges, then at least Murdoch stripped of US citizenship and exiled, or maybe good ol’ Jehovah can give him some boils throughout his body.
El Cid
Marijuana continues to be a subversive health threat, one we need to keep extremely profitable in order to give a luxuriously rich market to Mexico’s narco-paramilitaries.
This may allow for a budding resistance strategy to mature.
Did I close the front door? I think I was over that way. Fuck, who finished off the whole fucking can of nuts? Assholes.
PopeRatzy
Billy Bragg has already written a song about the fun in the UK.
Billy Bragg – Never Buy The Sun
http://vimeo.com/26203800
“Tabloids making millions, betting bullshit baffles brains”
jon
I’m wondering if I should call up my local Fox affiliates and inform them of the contents of my lunch. I’d hate for them to have to go through the trouble of hiring a private investigator to hack my phone. I could also inform them of the color of my socks, when I trim my nails, how many pens are in my pocket, and what the wattage is for my home’s light bulbs.
nancydarling
[email protected] Be nice to hyenas. The males are very family oriented and share in the feeding and raising of cubs, unlike lions. Actually any animal appellation is unfair except maybe chiggers and ticks. Chigger bites drive you fucking crazy and ticks suck your blood—perfect for Rupert.
Corner Stone
@boss bitch: It’s just a flesh wound!!
TheOtherWA
Holee crap!
This is gonna be gooooood. I’m making popcorn.
Corner Stone
@WaterGirl:
This doesn’t even make sense. Please try again.
Corner Stone
@JCT: Damn. I’m sorry JCT. I missed that before I posted.
But it’s pretty awesome how incredibly similar to Monty Python the president’s most ardently nonsensical defenders are at this point.
jl
@61 nancydarling
Sorry. Now I feel really really bad, I did not know hyenas were progressive. And the basset hound people have not even come for me yet.
mk3872
BTW, Obama just called Boehner’s bluff and punk’d him big time: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20078191-503544.html
He offered the conservative holy grail of progressive entitlement cuts and the Repubs blinked! They actually said NO! LOL!
Of course, progressives look like the typical little spoiled children that they are, too, for the faux outrage over something that was NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! Too funny …
Mike Kay ( Geronimo!!)
OBama suspends/cancels $800 million dollars in military supplies to Pakistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/10/world/asia/10intel.html?_r=2
Panetta says peace is at hand
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-09/panetta-lands-in-kabul-saying-al-qaeda-defeat-is-within-reach-.html
jl
As for Boehner. I don’t know whether Obama is playing hyperspace multichess. But the GOPper are writing a lot of Democratic attack ads for the next election every time they open their mouths these days.
Corner Stone
@mk3872:
How so? Please explain how this is an Obama initiative.
WaterGirl
Cornerstone
Since two comments I posted on the same thread on the same night appear to have been unclear, I think I’ll just be reading comments for the rest of the evening.
Hopefully my ability to communicate in writing will return by tomorrow!
jl
@71: If one believez Obama is a chess master, he got the GOPper to turn down a larger debt reduction package than they proposed with entitlement cuts.
Edit: that is, he very publicly proposed something that will be reported as more than what they asked for, except for some small tax increases for the wealthy, and they turned him down.
As I said, the GOPpers are writing attack ads for the Democrats every time they open their mouths.
From what I understand, the entitlement ‘reforms’ proposed by Obama are really small cuts in benefits. The only specifics I have heard about are adjustments to Social Security COLAs and Medicare payment formulas. But these are cuts in benefits, even though relatively small ones, that can plausibly be described as ‘reforms’ and probably sold as such to the ignorant national affairs press.
I disagree with proposing even those kinds of benefit cuts, especially for Social Security, but they are not a big deal compared to the malicious destruction that the GOP has in mind.
mk3872
@Corner Stone #71:
Obama knew that there was NO WAY that Repubs will accept tax increases on the rich.
So he claimed he was willing to cut SS & Medicare to show that even those entitlement cuts were not enough to get them to break from their Grover Norquist pacts.
Steeplejack
Seriously, how do you day-shifters do it?
I had dinner. I dozed for a bit. I got up. I sipped champers for hours, catching up on Balloon Juice threads with baseball in the background on TV. Now I’m starting to get really (pleasantly) fatigued. Even thinking about going to bed. And it’s not even eleven o’clock! WTF?! How do you pace yourselves?
Fortunately I am going back to the dark side when I resume work on Tuesday.
Suffern ACE
Corner Stone
Obama-“O.K. You can cut social security to get to your $4.0 trillion in cuts, if you give me $1.0 trillion in tax increases.”
Boehner – O.K. let me see.
Pelosi – Hell no. You will get no democratic votes if you cut social security. You can vote on that yourself.
Pledge Signing Republicans – No way on the tax increases. We’re still gonna blow up the economy! No tax increases or death to all!
Boehner – so let me get this straight – I can have my caucus vote to increase the debt ceiling, which is unpopular with republicans, cut social security, which is unpopular with everyone, and raise taxes, which is unpopular with republicans and independents, and I’ll get no cover from Democrats?
Obama – Yep. Oh, and I can always say that I had to sign it to save the country. What’s your team gonna say?
jl
@76: you got it better than I did. Thanks.
jl
Somehow the following seems appropriate, not sure why:
Sonny Boy Williamson – Unseen Eye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTa5yRK5F5o
cbear
My cynicism has certainly been confirmed when I see this type of language coming from a “Democratic” administration.
Oh well, as long as the reforms are only modest I guess I don’t really mind that the President seems willing to bargain on the central plank of the Democratic Party’s platform for 70+ years.
If this is your definition of Obama punking Boehner and you think it’s a win for democrats to offer the holy grail to goopers then you are obviously vying for Douglas Feith’s title of “The fucking stupidest guy on the face of the earth.”.
Corner Stone
@Suffern ACE: What are you babbling about? There will be a deal done. It will be cuts. I’m not sure what the rest of your scenario has to do with reality.
cbear
Ben Nelson made him do it. Nothing can be done now that Ben has spoken.
Corner Stone
@cbear: Queens of Maine? Maybe?
Or Cornhusker Kickback Redux?
Yutsano
For some bizarre reason this statement just creeped me out.
scav
Yutsano: Innate good taste and a disastrously vivid (probably sexual) imagination.
Yutsano
You have no idea. And if I didn’t know better I’d think you had been spying on my conversation with a Marine tonight. But it most decidedly did NOT involve Ben Nelson.
cbear
@ Yuts:
I’m sure Obama protested mightily but Ben just said
“Talk to the hand”“Talk to this dead muskrat on top of my head.”Mike Kay ( Geronimo!!)
an unknown black guy with a funny african name and no national experience outmaneuvered Hillary clinton, who was the most famous woman in the world, the former first lady, and the campaign veteran of two smashingly successful national campaigns.
sounds like a grand master.
I would ask bin laden if obama was a grand master, but I can’t he’s at the bottom of the ocean.
cbear
Did you discuss the paramenters of his support for Boehner and the unfortunate withdrawal of Wiener from the field?
:-)
Yutsano
I choose to exercise discretion as to the precise details. But suffice it to say you’re not far off.
Lysana
@WaterGirl: It’s not you when it comes to Corner Stone. Trust me.
Corner Stone
@Lysana: Hey dumbass. Don’t try and poison her against me. She’s had extensive discussions with me, and she’s not as bone fucking stupid as you. So go fuck yourself.
drops the spoon
priscianusjr
[email protected]
priscianusjr
Mike [email protected]
Corner Stone
@priscianusjr: You’re not that bright, are you?
cbear
@ priscianusjr
And another one enters the Feith sweepstakes.
You are one dumb mofo if you think that buying into the framing that goopers have spent 40 years and hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars evangelizing is somehow a win for Obama or this country.
You’re right, an election is coming up and, in your own words, Obama put it on the record that we need to accept the fact that federal programs and entitlements should be cut while the rich will have to accept a bare minimum of pain.
I’m sure he has some grand master plan on how we’re going to walk that one back.
Dumbass.
karen marie
cbear:
“Dumbass”? Really?
It seems as though there must be a more civil way of expressing your disagreement. If I were priscianusjr, I would tell you to go fuck yourself.
cbear
@ karen marie
Funny, that’s pretty much what I was telling
pricsiipriansurdumbass, but I was trying to be somewhat civil.Feel free to associate yourself with my remarks concerning his mental acuity.
Corner Stone
@karen marie: I’m not either one.
Go fuck yourself.
Mnemosyne
It’s against your Democratic principles to say that wealthy people need to pay their fair share?
I think you may need to read that quote again. It’s saying that the middle class and seniors should not bear the whole burden and wealthy people should pay more.
Nutella
via BoingBoing, documentation of the ‘Keep the government out of my MediCare’attitude.
I’ve benefited from 4 of the 19 programs listed so far. If I’m lucky (that is, not sold down the river by Boehner and co.) I’ll benefit from Social Security and MediCare too.
cbear
@ Mnemosyne
And, we have a late entry in the Feith Stakes comng up hard on the outside…
I read that quote 100% accurately and that is why I’m pissed. When someone says that one group should not bear the whole burden, or all the burden, the clear implication is that they will be asked to bear the majority of the burden.
In either case, or in any fucking case, seniors and the middle class should not be asked to bear any of the fucking burden that has been heaped upon this country by fucktards (of both parties) interested only in enriching themselves and their corporate overlords.
That you buy into the framing pushed religiously by the right and their centrist democratic brethen these many years speaks volumes about your knowledge of socio/political history and your ability to rationally consider what is in the best interests of our country and the vast majority of its citizens.
In other words, you are a dumb fuck.
Mnemosyne
Yes, saying that someone needs to pay their “fair share” always means they should pay less than everyone else. When you go out to dinner with your friends and they say that you need to pay your “fair share” when the bill comes, do you think they mean you can throw $5 in for a $100 tab and they won’t mind at all picking up the other $95?
Seriously, dude. Go have a beer or something. You’re getting yourself all wound up about something that only exists if you decide to twist the words until they shriek.
cbear
It must be nice to have history start anew each and every day. Please point me to one credible news source, administration official, or pundit that has come even close to saying that they are comptemplating a 50/50 split in reducing deficits.
C’mon, how hard can that be?
Suffern ACE
How can they? Seriously. Both sides have taken middle class tax breaks off the table. Those middle class tax breaks amount to more than those tax breaks to the wealthy in aggregate. Not only did Bush cut taxes for the wealthy, he cut them for everybody else. In addition to that, he increased spending, not just on the War, but on the drug program and homeland security and military spending beyond what was needed for the war. Even with the war off the books, the budget grew tremendously. And Medicare costs went up and Medicaid costs wet up.
So if you are going to address these issues, spending needs to come down, and you are going to have to raise taxes. “Clinton Tax Rates” include a whole bunch of middle class tax rates hikes that no one wants to make or even talk about right now. (Because if you raised middle class taxes, you get republican outcomes).
I’m curious as to where you get this 50/50 split. It’s not happening unless the Dems think they can raise the middle class taxes without electoral consequences. Right now even among Democrats, you can raise high earner income taxes without electoral consequences, but hike middle class taxes along with the wealthy and you’re probably toast.
http://today.yougov.com/news/2011/07/08/77-agree-defaulting-debt-would-be-serious-economy-/
cbear
I don’t get the 50/50 split from anywhere except the ludicrous comment at #102.
I am against any further burden being placed on the poor, seniors, or the middle class. That is my whole point and while I realize that that is not politically feasible that the urden be zero, it is insane that every potential scenario floated by this administration has the burden at 2/1, 2.5/1, 3/1. 4/1, and taken from fedral programs or entitlements. All while CBO numbers suggest that doing nothing is the best possible course.
If you want to argue that we are not headed for some grand bargain that includes more cuts effecting the less fortunate than we really don’t have anything to talk about.
Mnemosyne
You mean no proposed deals other than the deal that Boehner rejected today because it included tax increases on the wealthy, right?
The media is not talking about any deals that include tax increases on the wealthy, but that’s exactly the point on which today’s deal fell apart, so I’m not sure where you’re getting this “the entire burden will be carried by the poor!” fixation.
Right now, the administration is pushing the meme that the rich need to “pay their fair share” and not push the burden off onto the poor, and you’re furious with the administration for saying the wealthy need to pay more. I honestly don’t get it. Is this more of that thing where you can’t accept any kind of interim step and unless Obama announces that he’s proposing a 100% marginal tax rate on incomes over $1 million, any other action is just kowtowing to the rich?
ETA: Remember that thing that John posted yesterday about how lefties just can’t stop themselves from stepping all over the administration’s messaging on stuff and drawing attention away from sensible messages like, oh, IDK, “the rich should pay their fair share” by complaining about how they must not really mean it?
cbear
Look, I can’t help it that you have either the reading comprehension skills of a dullard or are paid by the strawman, but I’m tired of responding to you and this will be my last comment.
We will know soon enough what “fair share” means and I’ll either apologize or you will admit your dumbfuckery.
out.
Mnemosyne
Yes, clearly I’m the dumbfuck here for saying, “Hey, look, the administration is saying that rich people need to pay their fair share! Maybe we should help them emphasize that rich people aren’t paying their fair share instead of complaining that Obama didn’t specify a dollar amount that the rich should pay so therefore he shouldn’t even talk about making them pay their fair share!”
Lefties complain about Obama not pushing liberal ideas, and then when he does, somehow he doesn’t do it the exact right way and it’s just not good enough. It’s really fucking maddening to watch, frankly.
Mike Kay (Team America)
Why not? Seniors and the middle class share culpability for the mess.
They supported the iraq invasion, even though it wasn’t paid for, and then they rewarded bush with 4 more years. They supported the prescription drug program that cost $1.2 Trillion, which was completely unfunded. They supported bush’s multi trillion dollar tax cuts because it included tax cuts for them.
Seniors are the worst. They’re notoriously reactionary and right wing.
bob h
Whatever dynastic challenges remain, let us ensure that James Murdoch and other issue of Murdoch never become American citizens. Lets do it right next time.
Pongo
Have to correct my post quoted above. Apparently, Coulson was not arrested the first time around. He was questioned by police and gave evidence at a hearing, but claimed to have no knowledge of the hacking. Cameron was warned independently by multiple sources that Coulson was deeply involved and toxic, but brought him into govt anyway. He was arrested last week because emails revealed that not only did he know about hacking, he authorized payments to victims and bribes to the police. There is speculation that the police payments were, in part, for access to a phone number database used by law enforcement. If true, it’s hard to even fathom how slimy that is.
I wonder if Cameron got the support of the Murdoch media in Britain in return for guaranteeing a spot for Coulson? The whole thing is very odd.
kay
Anne Laurie, I love the Murdoch posts. I think this is huge, in some gut sense, and I know nothing about UK media, so I’m 1. trying to catch up and 2. guessing a lot.
It’s both terrifying and fascinating. Elite media in bed with elite political actors and extremely rich people, and media are in the driver’s seat, running the table, but they’re all working hard to protect each other.
Incredible. I hope like hell there’s a US inquiry into domestic Newscorp outlets. I’d love to know how carefully partitioned (or not) Fox News and the WSJ are from this international criminal empire they’re running.