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You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / Gay Rights are Human Rights / Pray the Gay Away

Pray the Gay Away

by John Cole|  July 12, 201110:22 am| 79 Comments

This post is in: Gay Rights are Human Rights, Religion, Assholes, Bring on the Brawndo!

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These people are clinical:

Are you gay and wish you weren’t? In Minnesota, there’s a Bachmann who can help you out with that.

Two gay former patients of Marcus Bachmann’s Lake Elmo, MN counseling center are talking to the press about the so-called homosexual “reparative therapy” Bachmann offers at his clinic. Bachmann — husband of surging presidential contender Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) — has long denied he peddles the universally-rejected theory that prayer and Bible study can turn a gay person straight. But now there’s video that shows reparative therapy was on offer at the clinic just weeks ago.

Reports from the pair were first published in The Nation and on ABC News Monday.

Andrew Ramirez, who was sent to Bachmann’s clinic while a senior in high school after he came out to his parents in 2004, told The Nation that a counselor at Bachmann’s clinic “set about trying to ‘cure’ him” by reading the Bible. “particularly verses that cast homosexuality as an abomination.”

I’m not a believer, and don’t believe in the power of prayer, so maybe I just don’t get it. But right now, I can’t think of any combination of Hail Mary’s that would make me stop liking women and start liking men. And if it works for this, why not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

Just pure insanity. And that’s not even beginning to dive into the nuttiness in folks thinking there is something wrong with being gay in the first place.

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Reader Interactions

79Comments

  1. 1.

    Dave

    July 12, 2011 at 10:24 am

    But right now, I can’t think of any combination of Hail Mary’s that would make me stop liking women and start liking me.

    I heard of self-loathing before John, but this is ridiculous…

  2. 2.

    R-Jud

    July 12, 2011 at 10:26 am

    pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    If I had a dime for every Christianist who’s tried to tell me I can do just these things, I wouldn’t need to pray myself rich.

  3. 3.

    HL_guy

    July 12, 2011 at 10:26 am

    why not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    They believe in those things too.

  4. 4.

    El Tiburon

    July 12, 2011 at 10:28 am

    Not to be douchier than usual, but didn’t you just call Eli from FDL clinical for questioning Obama and his policies? (Yes, the rhetorical headline was “worse Prez ever”)

    No doubt rightwingtards are worthy for the loony bin. But is also wondering if The One is leading this country further into the abyss (more wars than Bush, more loss of civil liberties, continuation of blow jobs to Wall Street, etc.)worthy of being called clinical?

  5. 5.

    patrick II

    July 12, 2011 at 10:30 am

    I do not remember a potential first-husband losing an election for a primary candidate yet. But Mr. Backhmann is going to be a hard man to hide for the entire primary process. Michelle leads some polls now, but can Michelle and Marcus be thought of as the first couple?
    On the other hand, if you were worried about having a gay child, the basement of the white house would be a prestigious clinic address.

  6. 6.

    LittlePig

    July 12, 2011 at 10:31 am

    The whole “love thy neighbor as yourself” bit is lost on these nuts. I get the distinct feeling when they read their Bibles they think the words in red mean ‘optional’.

  7. 7.

    dr. bloor

    July 12, 2011 at 10:33 am

    I look forward to the video of O’Keefe blowing the lid off this by dressing up as one of the Village People and seeking help.

  8. 8.

    Linda Featheringill

    July 12, 2011 at 10:34 am

    littlepig #6

    the words in red mean ‘optional’

    LOL. :-)

  9. 9.

    benjoya

    July 12, 2011 at 10:34 am

    I can’t think of any combination of Hail Mary’s that would make me stop liking women and start liking me.

    i can’t think of any combination of Hail Marys that would make me start liking you either.

    Sorry. Slow hanging curve ball, you know.

  10. 10.

    Zifnab

    July 12, 2011 at 10:34 am

    But right now, I can’t think of any combination of Hail Mary’s that would make me stop liking women and start liking me. And if it works for this, why not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    Give me $500 and I’ll start you on our cutting edge treatments right away. Actually, make that $1000. This is a prayer clinic, not a charity.

  11. 11.

    The Moar You Know

    July 12, 2011 at 10:36 am

    And if it works for this, why not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    Change those statements from interrogative to declarative and you’ve got yourself a fine base on which to begin your third career as a Southern Baptist preacher.

  12. 12.

    MattF

    July 12, 2011 at 10:37 am

    When I saw that Bachmann’s husband was preaching this stuff, I felt a (very brief) pang of sympathy for Ms. Michelle. Prayer isn’t going to make her husband heterosexual.

  13. 13.

    NonyNony

    July 12, 2011 at 10:37 am

    And if it works for this, why not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    As R-Jud and HL_guy suggest, this particular branch of Christianity believes you can do that too.

    See God is just like Santa Claus. Except instead of writing a letter every year you pray. And if Santa-God has you on his “nice” list then he sometimes answers your prayers and gives you what you ask for. And sometimes he lets you die of cancer.

  14. 14.

    Han's Solo

    July 12, 2011 at 10:37 am

    Bill Maher had Chaz Bono (Cher’s son) on his show last week and asked him about Cher’s tweet that Marcus Bachman made her gaydar squeal like a piggie.

    In order to answer the question of wether Mr. Bachman is gay Maher played dirty: he played a clip of Mr. Bachman calling gays “barbarians” who need to be educated and showed a picture of Mr. Bachman.

    Maher’s take on it was, “I don’t know if you need gaydar here, any two of your normal senses will work.”

  15. 15.

    geg6

    July 12, 2011 at 10:39 am

    And if it works for this, why not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    But isn’t this exactly what the god botherers think? I don’t understand why anyone would believe this shit, any more than I understand why anyone believes in the invisible sky wizard to begin with. Seriously, if you believe in the invisible sky wizard, why wouldn’t you believe this shit?

  16. 16.

    Roger Moore

    July 12, 2011 at 10:45 am

    And if it works for this, why not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    I’ll go with all the other people who have pointed out that plenty of religious people believe you can do just that. Actually, of course, you aren’t praying yourself rich, thin, healthy, or straight; you’re praying and asking God to make you rich, thin, healthy, or straight. But there may be an unequal chance of getting your prayers answered depending on what you pray for. Lots of people want to be rich, but only a few of them can be so God is going to have to leave a lot of people disappointed. But there’s no fundamental reason why there have to be gays and plenty of evidence that God doesn’t like them, so there’s some reason to think God is going to be more generous in helping people who want to pray teh ghey away than ones who want to pray themselves rich.

  17. 17.

    Keith

    July 12, 2011 at 10:45 am

    You are talking about a guy whose wife believes that she prayed herself a job…multiple times.

  18. 18.

    donnah

    July 12, 2011 at 10:47 am

    I work at a women’s fitness club and we weigh and measure our women so they know where they stand and when they make progress. I weighed one of the women and she had lost several pounds.

    “Praise Jesus!” she cried, “thanks be to God!”

    whatever. I’m not a believer, either, but I cannot comment on such things at my workplace, so I carefully told her, “You deserve the credit for your hard work and healthier diet”, and did not say, “not some imaginary father-figure handing out favors”.

  19. 19.

    Comrade Javamanphil

    July 12, 2011 at 10:50 am

    @patrick II And how exactly does Mr. Bachmann’s practicing what the vast majority of GOP primary voters believe hurt Michele in the primary?

  20. 20.

    Yevgraf

    July 12, 2011 at 10:51 am

    And if it works for this, why not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    Careful, Cole, you’re treading on the business model for fundamentalist evangelical preachers who make billions of bucks peddling this stupid shit to a willfully ignorant shrinking demographic of suburban and exurban white doofuses from sea to shining sea. That cohort of preachers has shredded the community found in middling sorts of congregations and caused bona fide fealty to faith to go down overall, but in those megachurches, they’ve cultivated some true believers, distilled down to an exclusionist core.

  21. 21.

    Chris

    July 12, 2011 at 10:51 am

    HL_Guy @ 3 and the rest have it pegged – they do believe in all that. Heck, it’s the foundation of their economic policy. Just trust the Invisible Hand, which to most of their electorate, comes down to God.

    These people are clinical:

    Have said it before, will say it again: in a rational world, conservative beliefs would be a subject for psychologists rather than politicians. Back in the buildup to the Civil War, somebody in South Carolina observed that he was seriously worried about his state – too small to be a country, too big to be an insane asylum.

  22. 22.

    David in NY

    July 12, 2011 at 10:53 am

    What I’ve always wondered is, “How does God have the time to listen to the prayers of every high school football player and fan in Texas on a Saturday night, and how does he decide who loses the games?”

  23. 23.

    gelfling545

    July 12, 2011 at 10:54 am

    @HL_guy: Yes and if it doesn’t work it was all because of your “lack of faith”.

  24. 24.

    kindness

    July 12, 2011 at 10:54 am

    First off, what Bachmann (either the Congresswoman or her husband) peddles as Christianity isn’t at all. They represent the Christian Taliban. Their views of what Christianity is are so narrow and so self serving to their political beliefs that no media should ever portray either of these fanatics as Christian or representative of Christianity.

    They aren’t. They are nut cases who have abducted a decent religion. If Jesus came back he would swear allegence to Allah & Islam before letting any of these people represent him. Now why the MSM can’t say that the extremists aren’t representative of the religion, I can’t fathom.

    I guess it’s just OKIYAAR.

  25. 25.

    Yevgraf

    July 12, 2011 at 10:57 am

    And if Santa-God has you on his “nice” list then he sometimes answers your prayers and gives you what you ask for. And sometimes he lets you die of cancer.

    Skydaddy “It” always has some purpose when It fucks around with Its claymation playthings, even when It causes misery and great pain.

    Of course, the purposes thought through by It are kind of like the purposes of a particularly psychotic 5 year old who gets off on torturing ants.

    Personally, I root for Lucifer. The skydaddy known of as It should be placed in a straightjacket and lobotomized….

  26. 26.

    Nemesis

    July 12, 2011 at 10:58 am

    Look folks, this one is easy.

    Watch Peter Popov early weekday mornings on the demon box. He says if I send him money, he will pray for me and gawd will forgive my financial debts and allow me to prosper. It must work because his followers give real examples of getting money! From out of the blue!

    Its the religious commercial transaction that is missing for you librul heathens.

    So whattya waiting for people. Get busy!

  27. 27.

    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford

    July 12, 2011 at 10:59 am

    I want a reporter to ask Michele Bachmann directly if her husband Marcus had gone through “reparative therapy” at any point in his life.

  28. 28.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 12, 2011 at 10:59 am

    What I’ve always wondered is, “How does God have the time to listen to the prayers of every high school football player and fan in Texas on a Saturday night, and how does he decide who loses the games?”

    Apparently He can do just about anything but prevent the tragic death of Caylee.

    Or thousands of other children who don’t have Nancy Grace looking out for them.

    It’s insanity, but all you have to do is look at what happens in any war to understand that the entire shebang is fully under the direction of frail mortal men, with no deity involved whatsoever.

  29. 29.

    Han's Solo

    July 12, 2011 at 10:59 am

    “How does God have the time to listen to the prayers of every high school football player and fan in Texas on a Saturday night, and how does he decide who loses the games?”

    I asked Mr. Bachmann this question. He said God decides based upon how fabulous the team’s uniforms are. Eventually coaches will catch onto this, and when they do we should all expect our football teams to play wearing feathered boas, thongs and lots and lots of sequins.

  30. 30.

    TOP123

    July 12, 2011 at 11:01 am

    @LittlePig #6:

    they think the words in red mean ‘optional’

    Nicely done.

    The only thing I’ll add to everyone’s observation that, yes, indeed they* do believe that prayer can make you rich, is that this tends to be coupled with another specific view, namely that worldly success and benefit is a visible sign of God’s favour. Sort of like when Jesus told the parable about the successful entrepreneur and the staff cutbacks…

    *(in fairness, not all 31 flavours)

  31. 31.

    Nellcote

    July 12, 2011 at 11:01 am

    If he’s getting Medicaid payments for this crap he needs to be investigated.

  32. 32.

    sal

    July 12, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Whatever. I predict this will just solidify her standing with her base and be ignored by anyone else who’d contemplate voting for her. The people who think it’s crazy already aren’t voting for her.

  33. 33.

    shortstop

    July 12, 2011 at 11:02 am

    When I saw that Bachmann’s husband was preaching this stuff, I felt a (very brief) pang of sympathy for Ms. Michelle. Prayer isn’t going to make her husband heterosexual.

    As I said in another thread, I don’t assume that every gay-bashing Republican is a closet case. But Mr. Bachmann is one of the gayest gay men I’ve seen in a long while, and I live next to Chicago’s Boystown. Which doesn’t mean I know any gay men who would find him remotely attractive.

    @patrick II And how exactly does Mr. Bachmann’s practicing what the vast majority of GOP primary voters believe hurt Michele in the primary?

    Well, to begin with, he’s not saying he’s a “reformed” gay man, and smart money says he never will. Should any public discussion of his sexuality ever take place, he will vehemently deny that he is, or ever was, a member of the Gay Party. Secondly, it’s doubtful he’s non-practicing; some people don’t act on their sexual desires, but that’s almost always for lack of opportunity. I give it about two months before the male hookers and hookups start coming forward with stories about old Marcus.

  34. 34.

    Chris

    July 12, 2011 at 11:03 am

    whatever. I’m not a believer, either, but I cannot comment on such things at my workplace, so I carefully told her, “You deserve the credit for your hard work and healthier diet”, and did not say, “not some imaginary father-figure handing out favors”.

    Even if you do believe in a God… dare I say it? There’s no reason he should get all the credit.

    I remember a fundie pastor at a church I went to for a while coming back from some clinical operation and all he had to say in his sermon was “praise God for making me go through this all right.” I was like, seriously? Not a word of appreciation for the medical professionals who did everything for you? Not even a “thank God that such people exist?” Apparently, he just got bathed in light in his hospital bed and was miraculously cured while the hospital staff just stood and watched.

    Symptomatic of the way fanatics spend so much time worrying about the next world that they’re completely indifferent to this one and the real people in it. (Not all religious people are like that, but those who are – scary).

  35. 35.

    bk

    July 12, 2011 at 11:03 am

    #22 – It’s Friday night, not Saturday night.

  36. 36.

    NonyNony

    July 12, 2011 at 11:04 am

    @kindness

    First off, what Bachmann (either the Congresswoman or her husband) peddles as Christianity isn’t at all.

    Yes, unfortunately, it is.

    Protestant Christianity is vast and it supports multiple interpretations. Mostly because the books of the New Testament (which are the foundation stone of all Protestant denominations) are a collection of documents cobbled together across the first and second century from a variety of places. Many of them were originally documents that supported what eventually became one heresy or another so they were re-written and edited and mutilated until they all agreed with each other and with what became the “orthodox” beliefs of the Catholic Church.

    But the seams are all still there. So if you want to believe in a Christianity that accepts everyone for who they are, has love of neighbor as the ultimate goal, and is premised around a loving, caring generous God you can get that. If you want to believe in a Christianity that is full of fire and brimstone, punishment and death for anyone who doesn’t believe the same things you do, and a capricious God who saves the folks he wants to save and condemns the folks he wants to condemn to eternal torment just because they were born the way he made them, well you can get that too. Often from the exact same book and using some of the same verses.

    It’s all Christianity. You can’t call people “not Christians” just because they don’t have the same version of Christianity you do – sorry it doesn’t work that way. You can say they’re not Lutherans or Catholics or Presbyterians, and that’s fine because there are real beliefs you have to hold to belong to one of those religions. But to be a Protestant Christian you just have to be able to derive your religion from the books of the Bible, and there are as many interpretations of those books as there are believers to read them.

    And to this non-believer, they’re all just as equally valid. Though many are fairly harmful to a person’s psychology and sadly the benign ones seem to be getting fewer and harder to see.

  37. 37.

    Nellcote

    July 12, 2011 at 11:04 am

    “Eventually coaches will catch onto this, and when they do we should all expect our football teams to play wearing feathered boas, thongs and lots and lots of sequins.”

    Well, that would make it at least halfway interesting.

  38. 38.

    Ash Can

    July 12, 2011 at 11:04 am

    What these people pray for or who they pray to makes no difference to anyone but them. It’s when they rope other people into their own personal religious rituals that problems arise. And when they do it as cover for ignoring science and, worse, ignoring the welfare of the people they’re roping in, it’s downright evil (not to mention blasphemous).

  39. 39.

    Martin

    July 12, 2011 at 11:06 am

    But right now, I can’t think of any combination of Hail Mary’s that would make me stop liking women and start liking men.

    What about daily exposure to an enormous green cock in the upper-left corner of your website?

  40. 40.

    evinfuilt

    July 12, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Here’s your education on the Prosperity Gospel. If you think any people who follow this have a dose of sanity, I have a bridge to sell you.

  41. 41.

    shortstop

    July 12, 2011 at 11:09 am

    #22 – It’s Friday night, not Saturday night.

    That explains it. On Saturday night, god is too busy ensuring that everyone gets laid.

  42. 42.

    Comrade Javamanphil

    July 12, 2011 at 11:10 am

    @shortstopI was referring to his therapy of others, not his own personal sexuality. If you are right about the latter, then this will hurt some but not much. The current GOP was blind but now refuses to see.

  43. 43.

    shortstop

    July 12, 2011 at 11:10 am

    What about daily exposure to an enormous green cock in the upper-left corner of your website?

    Crying over here.

  44. 44.

    TOP123

    July 12, 2011 at 11:13 am

    @Yevgraf #20: Never fear, there is currently a very healthy export market for this sort of thing.

  45. 45.

    Villago Delenda Est

    July 12, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Even if you do believe in a God… dare I say it? There’s no reason he should get all the credit.

    You remember when that plane crashed into the Hudson, and no one died? All these people were jumping up and down claiming it was “a miracle”, but it was no such thing. The professional, well trained reactions of the plane’s crew and the first responders who aided them was the result of careful planning and dedication to emergency protocols that were NOT handed down by some big guy with a white beard via a sunbeam. That entire “miracle” was directly the result of professionals who had been drilled to where they performed superbly under pressure because they were given the time and resources to perfect all those procedures that resulted in zero loss of life.

    This was fully an act of men, not any gods. No miracles involved.

    This supernatural bullshit drives me crazy.

  46. 46.

    kindness

    July 12, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Nonynony@36

    No, it isn’t. I understand they think it is. I understand that X number of people may agree with them but that isn’t what I was taught growing up. I’ll grant you I went to a liberal reformed protestant church but it is what I would consider a main line theological view of what Christianity is supposed to represent. What I learned growing up was that it was a Big Tent. All the views were supposed to be able to practice their thing but no one of them could say they were the ‘real’ ones or the only. The fundamentalists reject that notion. In their minds, they are the only.

    There are things I want to take back. I don’t think republicans should own the word conservative. It isn’t theirs to own or to define. Same thing with Christianity.

  47. 47.

    TOP123

    July 12, 2011 at 11:24 am

    shortstop@41

    That explains it. On Saturday night, god is too busy ensuring that everyone gets laid.

    Maybe, but only after the college game.

  48. 48.

    patrick II

    July 12, 2011 at 11:26 am

    @Comrade Javamanphil:
    If Mr. Bachman were the candidate instead of Michelle, conservatives would not vote him, regardless of occupation. The reason is not because they don’t believe in curing gay people, the reason is he appears less like John Wayne or Ronald Reagan than any of the other candidates.
    The only reason Rick Perry might get in the race, or Romney is currently leading is they look the most “presidential”. While evangelicals would auspiciously support gay “cures”, they would never vote for a guy who looks and sounds like Mr. Bachman. And while he is not the candidate, some of that will be transferred to Michelle.

  49. 49.

    NonyNony

    July 12, 2011 at 11:31 am

    @kindness

    There are things I want to take back. I don’t think republicans should own the word conservative. It isn’t theirs to own or to define. Same thing with Christianity.

    I get what you’re saying but they believe the same thing you do – that your liberal Christian values are a cancer on Christianity. Because they believe you are not reading the book the right way and you believe that they are not reading the book the right way. What evidence do you have that your reading is the correct one? The words of various theologians? They also have theologians to back up their beliefs. Your personal understanding of the New Testament? They have their own understanding, it’s completely the opposite of yours, and they’re willing to argue every point you make (and have good evidence to back up their points as well, since the book contradicts itself and is as open to interpretation as a Tarot card spread). Your own personal relationship with Jesus? They also have a personal relationship with Jesus to reinforce their understanding.

    I understand from a political level why you want to make that claim, but be aware that you’re fighting an uphill battle. Reclaiming words isn’t easy, and frankly in the culture of religious tolerance we live in in this country – the same kind of religious tolerance promoted by liberal Christianity – you will find that even many of your fellow travelers aren’t going to go along with your attempt to limit Christianity in a way that excludes people who believe Jesus was the Son of God.

  50. 50.

    aimai

    July 12, 2011 at 11:32 am

    To me the sickest thing about all this is that inevitably these so called therapists are working, sometimes for years, with people who sincerely want to stop being gay. If you really thought g-d was on your side, and the person wasn’t really gay (since they have this weird idea that at base each person is really heterosexual and only deviates from that for some satanic or social reason) what explanation can you offer for your patient being unable to overcome homsexuality? What kind of horrible idea of intentionality would you have to hold to continue to hold your friend/patient/coreligionist “guilty” for being unable to overcome something they have sincerely committed to overcoming? Its no different from having a therapy aimed at praying missing limbs back into existence. At the end of years worth of work with your limbless victim what grounds do you have for blaming the patient for being unable to regrow their limb? What kind of person would you be to still hold that not having a limb/being gay is in any sense volitional and under the individuals moral or spiritual control?

    aimai

  51. 51.

    alwhite

    July 12, 2011 at 11:34 am

    But John! God can cure any thing, He can perform miracles to make whatever He decides needs to happen will happen! Look at the work of faith healers, why they have cured every malady known to man . . . well, except for one – He has never regrown a limb on an amputee in all the history of creation. Man, He must really hate those fuckers that lost an arm or a leg.

  52. 52.

    Chris

    July 12, 2011 at 11:35 am

    @ Ash Can,

    What these people pray for or who they pray to makes no difference to anyone but them. It’s when they rope other people into their own personal religious rituals that problems arise.

    Yep.

    While evangelicals would never believe this, my feelings towards them are identical to my feelings towards Muslims. I got no beef against them. I got no beef against their religion. And I got no beef against their right to practice it and try to convince others to practice it as well.

    When they start imposing their religion on me, that’s when we’ve got a problem. (And it just to happens that in this country, it’s overwhelmingly they and not the Muslims who’re into stuffing theology down our throats, imprinting theology on politics and writing themselves checks with taxpayers’ money to fund their religious efforts).

  53. 53.

    Carbon Dated

    July 12, 2011 at 11:35 am

    God fucking hates it when people pray. It already knows everything you think and everything you want because It’s fucking God, so pestering It about teh gay or whatever only makes It madder than It already is.

  54. 54.

    Southern Beale

    July 12, 2011 at 11:39 am

    And if it works for this, why not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    Dude, welcome to American evangelical Christianity! Where everything is just a prayer away, and if you aren’t among the fortunate ones to be so blessed by the Divine One with riches and beauty, well, there’s something wrong with YOU.

    Surely you’ve heard of the prosperity gospel? Or Daniel’s Diet, the Christian diet based on Biblical teaching? There’s also the Bible Diet … there are tons of “pray your way to health” books, hell the entire Christian Science religion is based on that philosophy.

    It’s modern American Christianity, an amazing consumer buffet offering all sorts of wonderful things and all you have to do is BELIEVE! Believe harder! And of course tithe … and buy the books .. and the DVDs … and the workbooks … and the Devotional … and the tickets to the revival ….

  55. 55.

    Nicole

    July 12, 2011 at 11:39 am

    I hate that I’m such a bleeding heart. I read this kind of thing and I just feel so bad for Michelle Bachmann and her husband. Two very unhappy people who would be in such a better place if they could just be honest.

    Then I remember that her way of dealing with their emotional misery is attempting to drive the country into economic misery and I go back to despising her.

    But I think there’s a lot of truth to the saying that “celebrity is what you get in place of love.”

  56. 56.

    Martin

    July 12, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Dude, welcome to American evangelical Christianity!

    America’s social safety net, right up to the minute the checks from Social Security start arriving in the mail.

  57. 57.

    daveNYC

    July 12, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Bachmann—husband of surging presidential contender Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN)—has long denied he peddles the universally-rejected theory that prayer and Bible study can turn a gay person straight. But now there’s video that shows reparative therapy was on offer at the clinic just weeks ago.

    While I doubt that prayer and Bible study could ‘cure’ teh gheyness, I’m willing to bet money that an unhealthy dose of shame, guilt, and emotional abuse could put it into remission.

  58. 58.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    July 12, 2011 at 11:55 am

    @Martin: Jesus is my co-payer.

  59. 59.

    Catsy

    July 12, 2011 at 11:57 am

    @David in NY:

    What I’ve always wondered is, “How does God have the time to listen to the prayers of every high school football player and fan in Texas on a Saturday night, and how does he decide who loses the games?”

    It’s like those button-mashing sequences in some video games, where in order to overcome a sword clash, lift a heavy door or the like, you have to hammer the X button as fast as you can–faster than the other guy, if you’re playing against another person–to see who wins.

    Except instead of hitting the X button, you’re hitting your knees and praying. And if you lose, it’s not because God hates you, it’s because some other guy had a turbo controller.

  60. 60.

    John Puma

    July 12, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    I “pray” the Mr B’s federal grant money is administered through the state of Minnesota, which is shut down due to, of course, his own ilk of radical reich nutballs.

  61. 61.

    Martin

    July 12, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    “How does God have the time to listen to the prayers of every high school football player and fan in Texas on a Saturday night, and how does he decide who loses the games?”

    I think the rule is simple. You just had a bunch of athletic 17 year-olds change into their uniforms in the locker room. Inevitably, some of those football players are thinking about cocks. The team with the fewest cock-thoughts during the prayer wins.

    It’s a little bit like one of those old Star Trek episodes where everyone had to completely blank their thoughts in order to escape the force field or whatever.

    But based on some of the taunts I’ve heard against the losing team, I think everyone is on the same page regarding the prayer/win rule.

  62. 62.

    mellowjohn

    July 12, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    someone on stephanie miller’s show commented the other day that marcus bachmann seems to have a “san francisco accent.”

    not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

  63. 63.

    Catsy

    July 12, 2011 at 12:13 pm

    @Chris:

    While evangelicals would never believe this, my feelings towards them are identical to my feelings towards Muslims. I got no beef against them. I got no beef against their religion. And I got no beef against their right to practice it and try to convince others to practice it as well.
    __
    When they start imposing their religion on me, that’s when we’ve got a problem.

    I mostly agree with this. Where I part is here: I do have a problem with their religions. They are creating generation after generation of ignorant people who are the source of most of what is sick and wrong with this country. I’d go so far as to argue that teaching their kids crazy fantasies like creationism instead of science, and indoctrinating them with anti-intellectualism and bigotry, is tantamount to child abuse.

    And this is the expected, natural outcome of following Scripture to the letter. Most of the good that comes from the “Holy Books” comes from ignoring the sexist, bigoted and outright crazy parts of them and cherry-picking only the good stuff to follow.

    To their credit, many religious people do just this. Many. But not enough to offset the millions who believe a host of insane things, intellectually cripple their children with ignorance by indoctrinating them to think those insane things are facts, and vote for people who believe insane things and enact laws based on them that harm the rest of the country.

    The sad thing is, a lot of them think the same things about us. The difference is that no matter how toxic I think their religion is, I’m glad they have the freedom to practice it because it means I have the freedom to in turn reject it and think they are completely insane.

  64. 64.

    shortstop

    July 12, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    Martin, you’re on fire today.

  65. 65.

    dave

    July 12, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    Crazy Shelley’s district is home to at least one of the largest “God will Make You RICH!” churches I know of. Of course you must be a member of the church and when you submit your tax return they will calculate your recommended contribution
    and of course if you do not contribute at the correct level you will not share in the riches. Biggest con job I know of.
    It’s such a grossly perverted version of christianity that it’s hard to believe people are taken in.

  66. 66.

    Chuck Butcher

    July 12, 2011 at 1:28 pm

    The funny thing is I had the idea that the guy in the red suit with the big white beard showed up at the Winter Solstice…

  67. 67.

    Arclite

    July 12, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    But right now, I can’t think of any combination of Hail Mary’s that would make me stop liking women and start liking men.

    Well, duh, John. It only works one way.

  68. 68.

    Chris

    July 12, 2011 at 2:02 pm

    @ Catsy @ 63,

    On the general “I do have a problem with their religions,” I can’t agree for the same reason NonyNony does – religion is whatever the hell its believers want it to be. It’s just too flexible for me to either credit or blame it for what’s going on in our society. The Obi-Wan “certain point of view” BS applies to religion probably more than to anything else in this world, since it’s by definition unprovable.

    On this specific point,

    They are creating generation after generation of ignorant people who are the source of most of what is sick and wrong with this country.

    I used to agree with this, but after reading enough about the GOP, no longer. Take religion away from the GOP, and what do you get? Ayn Rand – in other words, all the problems remain.

    IOW, religion to my way of thinking is frankly irrelevant. Between communism and Ayn Rand, the last century more or less proved that ending religion in itself wouldn’t do a thing to stop teh crazy.

  69. 69.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    NonyNony

    Right on the money except for one thing.

    the benign ones seem to be getting fewer and harder to see

    There are no benign ones, that’s why they are so hard to find.

  70. 70.

    Svensker

    July 12, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    @ Chris

    IOW, religion to my way of thinking is frankly irrelevant. Between communism and Ayn Rand, the last century more or less proved that ending religion in itself wouldn’t do a thing to stop teh crazy.

    This. It seems humans are wired to “believe” in (or belong to)something, whether that something be a higher being or a tribe or a club or a philosophy.

  71. 71.

    JWL

    July 12, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Just a few years ago, I witnessed Pat Robertson “pray away” a woman’s cancer on TV. Without naming her (although I believe he mentioned she lived in the midwest) he held up his arm and beseeched God to rid the woman of her disease. He then assured her it had vanished, and that she was cured. Of course, even a ministry in good with The Lord has bills to pay…

  72. 72.

    Catsy

    July 12, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    It’s just too flexible for me to either credit or blame it for what’s going on in our society.

    IOW, religion to my way of thinking is frankly irrelevant. Between communism and Ayn Rand, the last century more or less proved that ending religion in itself wouldn’t do a thing to stop teh crazy.

    Stop it, no–but it would markedly reduce it.

    The problem with religion in general, but in particular the Abrahamic religions, is that they encourage people to accept–as a way of living their entire life–toxic and counterfactual fantasies without a shred of concrete evidence, purely on faith and appeals to authority. The conditioning and mindset necessary to do this are destructive to critical thinking and the ability to deal with the world as it is.

    People manage it, of course. Jesuits. Talmudic scholars. The millions of people in America who somehow compartmentalize their willingness to believe in magic sky fathers to keep it from being challenged by the things they’ve learned in school, or who cherry pick what parts of the religion sound appealing and ignore the parts that are contradictory or reprehensible. Some do better than others. But they succeed in spite of the handicap of magical thinking, not because of it.

    Do you honestly think that there would be an anti-abortion movement as large and dangerous as the one we have if they couldn’t manufacture religious justification for their position? That the GOP and Fox News would be even half as successful and dangerous as they are without the lockstep solidarity of religious fantatics and the gullibility of the less fanatical? It is much easier to sell lies and contradictory, fact-free arguments to people who have been conditioned all their lives to accept on faith things that don’t make sense. Do you think the war on women’s rights would be anywhere near as relentless as it is now without the sexism and contempt for women’s rights baked into the very core of these religions?

    Of course people are crazy without religion. Of course there are non-religious sources of evil and insanity in the world that wouldn’t go away if religion disappeared tomorrow.

    But religion provides a structured, authoritarian justification for that craziness, and a whole mess of really dangerous doctrines into which to channel that craziness with all the passion of a true believer.

  73. 73.

    Ruckus

    July 12, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Svensker

    We are for the most part social creatures. For many people the only readily available social groups are churches, bars and schools. But one can only attend school for so long and some don’t like to be drunks. Church is an accepted way of belonging. Now why are so many are churches are run by lunatics and grifters? Like everyone, lunatics like to stick together and support each others lunacy. And that makes lots of marks for the grifters.

  74. 74.

    Rihilism

    July 12, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Oh, but, John, “Dr.” Bachmann’s gay-cure aversion therapy works! When you enter his office, the first thing he says is, “SSStop being gay, sssilly, or I’ll give you sssuch a pinch!”. He then starts singing:

    I’m gonna wash that gay right outa your brain,
    I’m gonna wash that gay right outa your brain,
    I’m gonna wash that gay right outa your brain,
    And you’ll be straight today!.

    You then curl up together to “do” some bible readin’ and, before you know what’s happening, whammo, you’re ready to go cruisin’ for babes…

    Oh, Jesus, you’re so fine, you’re so fine you blow my mind. Hey, Jesus! Hey, Jesus!

  75. 75.

    The Populist

    July 12, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Why is it my gaydar goes off whenever I see or hear Marcus Bachmann talk or dance?

  76. 76.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    July 12, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    [W]hy not pray yourself rich, pray yourself thin, pray away your cancer, etc?

    Prosperity Gospel

    Short answer – you get right with God, you get the goodies you deserve here and now, not just in the hereafter.

    And people eat it up with a spoon because praying for stuff is a helluva lot easier than working for it.

    Waiting for the inevitable revelation that Mr. Bachmann bats for the other team.

  77. 77.

    HyperIon

    July 12, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    aimai @ 50 wrote: … g-d …

    A question for you. If you really believe that it is wrong to write the name of the big-guy-in-the-sky, shouldn’t you at least capitalize it out of respect?

    I have never understood this.

  78. 78.

    Randell

    July 12, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Hurrah, John!

    Succinct, and dead on target. The only problem I have is with the use of the word “believer”. Believer in what? Fantasy? Mythology? 2000 year old fiction? There needs to be a better word for this mental delusion that makes these people believe that their particular brand of ancient god worship should control the lives of an entire populace. Oh, i know – Taliban – the U.S. edition.

  79. 79.

    Jason P.

    July 15, 2011 at 1:30 am

    Why pray at all? god’s divine plan wont be put on hold for you. If you pray and it happens it is a miracle, if it doesn’t… it is god’s will. let’s just skip to god’s will shall we?

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