Big bizness getting nervous about Cantor and Bachmann’s economic suicide squad. I wonder whether they understand that their idiot upstart army carries its own water now.
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
Let’s not be the monsters we hate.
This isn’t Democrats spending madly. This is government catching up.
White supremacy is terrorism.
That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.
I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.
Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.
And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.
Putin dreamed of ending NATO, and now it’s Finnish-ed.
Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.
People are complicated. Love is not.
Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.
No Justins, No Peace
They’re not red states to be hated; they are voter suppression states to be fixed.
Glad to see john eastman going through some things.
Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.
One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.
So many bastards, so little time.
It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.
Bark louder, little dog.
Live so that if you miss a day of work people aren’t hoping you’re dead.
Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.
We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.
Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?
The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.
You are here: Home / Mickey grabs mop, chops frantically
liberal
Just more evidence in favor of the assertion that Obama should have, from the beginning, stated he wanted a clean bill and thereafter refused to negotiate.
Major freakout by ABL, Memwhatsherface, etc, in 3…2…1…
General Stuck
Yup. The Aqua Buddha now leaves fortune cookies with missions from Gawd underneath The Tea Tard Tree of Liberty.
An R by their name, will not save the unholy.
Chris
Like I said elsewhere… this whole thing’s a living reminder that rhetoric has consequences.
The guys at the top keep thinking they can just rile up the rubes, point them at the liberals, and they’ll just quietly go back indoors the minute they’re no longer needed. Bad news, dumbasses…
4tehlulz
@liberal: Show your work.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
@liberal: That is precisely what happened. Were you listening?
Paul W.
And that’s exactly what he did, minus the not negotiating. But if you aren’t negotiating then you’re in the GOP and off your rocker supposing that only your answer are the valid ones, and that no reconsideration is necessary.
Danny
Yes, an ideological suicide pact. That’s what became of Movement Conservatism in the 21st century. I fully expect rabid teapartiers to propose the republican party nominate Pigasus for president in Tampa next year.
Here’s Erick Erickson of RedState, today:
Shoot the hostage, embrace the apocalyptic future, Helter Skelter and fuck the pigs. Got it.
Napoleon
You didn’t mention sticking a fork in a belly.
xian
at least they admit they are hostage-takers now
Brandon
I cannot be the only one who believes that the power of the Tea Party is vastly overstated. At the heights of their Koch funded idiocy they couldn’t stop healthcare, even after laying seige to the Capitol Bldg. In the months that followed, poll after poll showed dwindling support. Cantor obviously has a vested interest in overstating their power because he needs to raise his own standing army to challenge Boner. And of course the GOP loves to trot these morons out every time they try to force Obama’s hand on something. But otherwise I’d expect that they could pass a clean bill and exactly nothing would happen except for Michele Malkin throwing a fit. The real issue is here is that Boner is a weak leader and Cantor is trying to build a competing power center. Nothing more, nothing less.
The Moar You Know
That’s right out of every revolutionary manifesto I’ve ever read. Who the hell does Erik think he is, Che?
aisce
@ liberal
do you freaks ever intend to give the president a little credit?
getting a clean raise wasn’t his priority. trapping the republicans into raising taxes, splitting their base, and reaping massive political love for a multi-trillion dollar compromise was his priority. getting a clean bill was the backup plan.
sheesh.
Bob Natas
I think this is exactly right; not raising the debt ceiling was never a particularly credible threat, mainly because of the influence of “business” organizations like the Chamber of Commerce, but Cantor needs to be seen as willing to go right up to the brink; it is crucial, though, that someone appear to let him save face. This is the role of McConnell in all of this.
liberal
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
I guess you can’t read, as I wrote, …and thereafter refused to negotiate.
liberal
4tehlulz
Not my fault if you can’t read (in this case the linked article).
cmorenc
Meanwhile, on CNBC last night, Larry Kudlow was preaching that debt default by the US government would not cause any serious negative consequences for business or interest rates, because the current rate was so low etc. etc. and BTW an IPSOS Poll showed that by a 56-36 margin, the American people were against the debt ceiling being raised, a grass-roots uprising against big government. No mention of how the poll was done, what questions were actually asked, etc.
Kudlow is such a complete jackass.
liberal
Paul W. blithered,
Yeah, well, the “not negotiating” is the whole point.
Really? So you think that one should negotiate everywhere, everytime, in every context, with every counterparty?
Speaking of off your rocker…
liberal
@13 Bob Natas wrote,
So why exactly did Obama negotiate in the first place?
catclub
The stock markets may be saying they think the McConnell cave was noteworthy – and indicates end of crisis.
General Stuck
Because the republicans now control a branch of government and are a real player in the acts of governance in a divided system like we have. When it was dems that controlled everything, it was an entirely different dynamic where most negotiations were with Obama’s own party. And done with a lower tone and tenor.
Some extra lame trollery liberal, even for your usual bullshit.
Danny
@The Moar You Know
I’ll have you know that the founding fathers were revolutionaries (in addition to social conservatives, libertarians and christians), so there you go.
4tehlulz
Stop arguing like a Republican and make an case.
The Moar You Know
It would be nice if he would get back on the blow, overdose, and die.
Tim F.
Obama negotiated because he genuinely wants a deal. He wants to rack up achievements and a deficit deal is about the only one he could even theoretically achieve in this environment.
Danny
@liberal
He negotiated because he wants to do long term deficit reduction.
And we should do long term deficit reduction. Pretty much no-one disagrees; most net & nutroots just want to wait beyond this year or the next year or until the recovery is solid.
But why not get the deal now, with all the political benefits? Reported by republican sources to The Corner @ NRO, the democrats offered a sum total of 2 Billion $ in reduced discretionary spending for 2012. That’s basically nothing and wont make a difference either way wrt the recovery. And that’s why Obama and the dems are proposing it.
Long term deficit reduction that doesn’t hurt the recovery is just as much in the interest of progressives as it is in the interest of conservatives. The measures to get there are in contention though, of course.
Hewer of Wood, Drawer of Water
liberal
It’s evidence of what, exactly? That the president shouldn’t have let the republicans make complete idiots of themselves? That he shouldn’t have let them prove to everyone how their ideology is more important than what’s best for the country? That he shouldn’t have let them prove how unserious they are about deficit reduction?
FlipYrWhig
Frankly, I think the “grand bargain” that would have been worth pursuing–and still is, conceptually–is short-term stimulus for long-term deficit reduction. Now the former has become anathema even to (strangely many) Democrats, so this is all fantasy baseball. But that would have been an approach that could have succeeded in binding up the deficit-hawk Democrats concerned about spending with the Keynesians concerned about raising demand. Something for each side. Haggle it out and you’ve got The Democratic Plan that everyone from Jim McGovern to Heath Shuler could love. Sigh.
General Stuck
So do I, and always have been something of a deficit hawk. And people forget, these budgets are mostly political documents, until the appropriations process, where they be changed all over again. And stretched over ten years, and supplanted with other subsequent budgets, most of which will occur to the degree they get through the appropriations process as spending cuts, well past when we should be in some kind of sustained economic recovery.
I believe in government doing good works for the poor and middle class, and acting as a purveyor of economic and social justice and equality. But I damn sure don’t want that to cost any more than it has to.
Bob Natas
I don’t know exactly; maybe he thinks (incorrectly) that people will remember this next year when they stumble toward the ballot box. Perhaps he thinks that Cantor intends to make good on his threat (or somehow has the capability of making good on the threat)
I’ve got to say, though, that my preferred theory is that he wants what other commenters are calling “long term deficit reduction,” but he wants to achieve this without goring the oxen of the good folks at the US Chamber of Commerce.
Monkey Business
I don’t think the Tea Party has a ton of power in the general election, but in the Primaries they can make the GOP’s life miserable.
The GOP’s standard bearer is Mitt Romney. The Tea Party’s standard bearer is Michelle Bachmann. One of these people is electable in a Presidential race. The other one will look like Johnson-Goldwater in ’64, or Nixon-McGovern or Reagan-Carter in ’72 and ’84. Basically, the Tea Party gave the GOP the House and cost them the Senate. If they continue being a force in GOP politics, they’ll cost them the White House and the House.
Rome Again
This is the question I’ve got on my mind also, and I plan to seek out evidence to confirm (or maybe not) that they do. I would be happy knowing they’ve figured this part out since yesterday, but I have little faith they actually know how to do that.
Martin
If you look at HOW he negotiated, you’d find the answer. He went from no negotiation to just weeks before the drop-dead deadline (weeks after we passed the debt limit) to asking for everything – $4T in deficit reductions, as a combination of tax increases and cuts and entitlement reform. He made the problem so large that it couldn’t be solved in the time remaining through negotiation. The only possible result would then be a simple debt ceiling increase, which is what he wanted in the first place.
He was negotiating, not so much for what should be in this grand bargain (though I think he’d be happy if such a thing miraculously happened), but between doing this massive thing that the GOP couldn’t support and doing this simple thing, which it’s looking like they will support.
The GOP made this molehill into a mountain and Obama then made it into a small moon. The molehill is what he wanted and the molehill is what he’s going to get. How can that not be considered good negotiating?
Martin
But that’s their power in the general, by forcing Republicans that would otherwise be electable in the general to take untenable positions in order to hold off the challenger. We saw that here in CA where the GOP systematically fucked themselves trying to cover the tea party in the primary and wound up losing every race in the general. It’s not a problem in SC, but I don’t think Ohio voters are going to fall for it in a presidential election, with a full democratic turnout.
Paul W.
@liberal #17
Negotiate every time, everywhere, with ever one? No.
But when you only hold 1 of the two bodies of Congress and need the House to pass something… yeah, you’re gonna have to negotiate. I don’t get how you don’t, because the Speaker sets the agenda, so without some sort of cooperation from the other side then nothing will come out of the House.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@Martin #32:
That’s no moon.
It’s a spacestation!
/sorry, couldn’t resist. Please continue.
lojasmo
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/07/13/mickey-grabs-mop-chops-frantically/#comment-2669073
@ Liberal
Answered above, but I’ll be succinct.
He negotiated because he is the president, is smarter than you, me, Cantor, and Boner combined, and in the end, he got what he initially said he wanted. Even shorter: Because he’s damn good at it.
Bob Natas
Everyone involved in this “negotiation” wants to see an increase in the debt ceiling.
Bob Natas
That is an open question. If the position he takes during this process requires him to make some actual cuts, he isn’t going to look so smart in one years time.
Gravie
Great headline!
geisha gurl
How long before we find out GOP leadership and/or the Teahadists are finding messages in the Beatles’ White Album.
liberal
Paul W. wrote,
Really? No matter what the Republican preconditions, the Democrats are obliged to negotiate?
liberal
Martin wrote,
Uh, because he could get the same thing by not negotiating, and by doing so not do stupid things like tarnish the Democratic brand by proposing cuts to entitlements?
liberal
General Stuck blithered,
LOL. On the discretionary side, most of the stuff that should be cut is DOD. On the mandatory/entitlement side, most of the stuff that should be cut is payments to medical providers for useless shit, and excess payments to pharma for patented drugs.
Neither of those classes of cuts are going to happen (in any meaningful size) under any bargain coming out of this process.
Danny
@Liberal
What Republican preconditions were there? What do you even mean? Did the Democrats accept any republican preconditions before sitting down at the table?
That sounds like… bullshit.
Why, because you’re a fortune teller?
I get the feeling that your own conception of a successful negotiating strategy is that certain things that you may want you wouldn’t dare proposing because your counterpart would never accept them? That sounds like… a fucking stupid negotiating strategy.
I think proposing those “cuts” is exactly what the democrats should do and what they’ve done. They offered trillions of “cuts” in defence spending and medicare reimbursement rates. The republicans wanted “cuts” and we offered them “cuts”, and some new “revenues”. It’s not our problem if the “cuts” were not the kind republicans like.
You OTOH sound like someone who doesn’t know shit about getting what you want, but ain’t afraid to talk a good game while striking a pose. Kind of embarrassing from a person who have no apparent problem carping about the presidents lacking negotiating skills.
But yeah, yeah: par for the course from the nutroot/firebagger crowd.