Stock futures and the dollar fell late Wednesday after Moody’s Investors Service warned the United States may lose its prized AAA credit rating, reversing a rally on Wall Street.
The credit ratings agency cited the growing risk that Washington could fail to raise its $14.3 trillion government debt limit “on a timely basis.
Government debt prices also fell. Benchmark 10-year Treasury notes slid 8/32 in price to yield 2.91 percent, while the dollar tumbled against most major currencies and set another record low against the Swiss franc as Thursday’s Asian trading session opened.
Wait till the teahadist run GOP crashes our credit rating and our borrowing costs go through the roof, and they make our correctable debt problem an absolute uncontrolled disaster while crashing the global economy. They honestly do not realize what they are playing with here. It’s worse than fire.
How did we get to the point that the world economy is held hostage by people who think Jesus rode a dinosaur but paid cash up front for it (because he refused to carry any debt, doncha know)?
stuckinred
It’s all part of a plan.
Ron
We’re fucked. I know a lot of people who think the GOP will blink, and the establishment GOP did, but the crazies won’t because they think its okay to default or that it’s just a conspiracy theory that we will default.
aimai
Words fail me. They really do. Thank god for your commentary, John. Its the only thing that keeps me from shrieking these days.
aimai
Cat Lady
There are so many unintended consequences with default that even Goldman Sachs will lose. Please tell me the Mayans weren’t onto something with that whole 2012 thing.
Little Boots
they have to blink, Rob. they’re paymasters will suffer if they don’t. therefore, they will. why doesn’t the White House get this? that is the real question.
joes527
Cash? Jeebus didn’t use cash. He paid in gold ….
… and you too can buy gold, just like Jeebus. Simply click on our sponsor’s link.
stuckinred
Jeeze, gotta dust off my Y2K ammo.
Nutella
To the Tea Party types that’s a feature, not a bug.
Little Boots
damn, shoulda been Ron.
joes527
aimai
An analysis that boils down to: “a pack of barking lunatics are taking the country down by this weekend” is what keeps you from shrieking these days?
General Stuck
The explosion of interest rates will reach down to individual American’s eventually, if I understand the dynamic correctly. Mitch might have been too little too late with his epic cry for help yesterday.
Now it really is up to Boehner, who can end up playing the belated hero, by declaring he will go all out to pass a clean debt ceiling increase in the House, to get enough dem votes to pass over the insane faction of his caucus. It would likely be a pol suicide run for him, doing this with the help of the hated Pelosi and dems, but when he goes to the big tanning bed in the sky, he can salvage a claim as a real patriot.
stuckinred
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
It’s sadly gonna get worse before the correction. The money guys don’t fuck around when they start covering their own financial asses, which the delusional tea party dominionists are too proudly stupid to understand.
scav
urp, the big echoey voice has spoken and it’s using our full name.
Little Boots
obama wins, politically. but unemployment. yeah, that’s gonna be a problem for a while yet.
stuckinred
General Stuck
The Boehner that sat in the corner with his thumb up his ass while this whining little weasel fucker blabbered?
Breezeblock
I hate this fucking country.
IF I can eventually retire, I think a Banana Republic would be more responsible.
Fucking Repukelicans.
Bob Natas
That is extremely funny; someone just lost a lot of money in seconds. Of course, that a fiction factory like Moody’s is weighing in on the value of debt is also somewhat funny.
I can’t imagine that our entertainments will go on in light of a report like this. You all figure that this … contest ends Friday sometime?
Mainer
And Obama is clearly the grown-up in the room. I’m beginning to believe the 12-dimensional chess stuff.
Meanwhile, Cantor is whining and losing his stuff while Obama pushes it:
WP
Little Boots
why can’t we do the obvious in this country? why can’t the White House do the obvious? or the rest of the country? it is so pathetic. I wonder if we just have to scrap this whole system? it is so obvious that a Keynesian solution is the only realistic course, and yet, it is equally obvious that is what we will NOT do. pathetic.
Baud
This may be why Obama set Friday as a deadline for getting an agreement. Markets aren’t going to wait until an August default to react.
General Stuck
Yea, that one. I figure to run a 4 minute mile at age 58 before Boehner grows a spine to do the right thing. He might at least give us a good cry though. If we’re lucky.
freelancer (iPhone)
At what point is it legitimate to start questioning conservatives’ patriotism? In a way that isn’t construed how 2003 felt aka
“Hey, your idiotic war plan seems ill-thoughtout.”
“STFU you dfh librul traitor! Support the President (just ours) in a time of war or you hates Amerukee!”
beltane
Maybe we need to have a massive Day of Rage against the Tea Party Traitors and the hateful idiots who put them into office. Those who seek to destroy the United States and impoverish its citizens must be held accountable for their actions. I don’t see these assholes as fellow Americans; I see them as arsonists who want to set this country on fire and then block the exits.
Southern Beale
Well, every time the debt ceiling negotiations falter, Eric Cantor’s investment in his ProShares Trust Ultrashort 20+ Year Treasury ETF soars.
Some people might consider that a conflict of interest but, ya know, IOKIYAR.
stuckinred
Squeaky says:
Little Boots
markets? oh yeah, those dumb fucks? yeah, markets.
Sasha
You have to remember that a lot of these TPs are “patriots” who think the government is too powerful. Knee-capping America to hobble government infringement on liberty is the point.
The Dangerman
Pardon me as I mentally picture Eric Cantor riding the bomb down a la Slim Pickens. Ride ’em, Cowboy.
Chris
I’ve been asking that for years.
For me, the defining statistic is the poll that close to half of Americans believe in strict creationism. I’ve read a lot of crazy shit in my day, but the fact that this is still even a controversy in this country speaks volumes for how many problems we’ve got.
In the past, it might not be so big a deal, but this is the year 2011 – a population as ignorant as this isn’t going to cut it. And it didn’t take a genius to see that it was going to lead to some serious shit. Which we’re seeing now.
JPL
stuckinred When did Graham say this?
Violet
Jesus paid in frankincense and myrrh. Time to invest in spice futures?
I’m glad I’ve got enough land to feed myself. Sure it’ll be vegetables and some fruit, but I can eat. Who knows what these idiot teahadists are going to do to our economy.
Little Boots
what’s awesome is the number of them that depend on social security or medicare or veterans benefits, sasha. what a bunch of stupid worthless fucks. they gave us joe mccarthy, and now they give us themselves. I think I’d rather have Joe.
Sasha
The other option is that the Dems make a deal with Boehner and, along with the non-crazy portion of the GOP caucus that would vote for a clean debt limit increase, vote to keep Boehner as Speaker when Cantor tries to depose him.
stuckinred
The Dangerman
He’s more like the Japanese submariner who sees the naked blonde on the periscope in “1941”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP9P8YKBSlE
RPh
You said:
“How did we get to the point that the world economy is held hostage by people who think Jesus …”
But you were off track after that.
The appropriate end to the sentence is:
“… was feeding his believers a load of muck during the Sermon on the Mount to scam them and curry their favor and votes … believed in the gold standard … hated the Romans more for their government then their slavery, slaughter, or their failure to drill, subject, drill … and instructed his apostles to spread the gospel of no taxes … fealty towards the Pharisses … and no help whatsoevah! for the lost/poor/indigent, ’cause the dubasses who do not look like you or have as much as you don’t deserve God’s love or our help or compassion.”
The dinosaur part was right, though.
Mr Stagger Lee
Bankers will have some “associates” visit some of the firebag leaders and give them a deal they can’t refuse. And no doubt the Chamber Of Commerce will sing a different tune to the baggers if they get tanked.
PreservedKillick
That’d be damn close to forming a new centrist party.
Not a bad idea.
Bizono
I’m really starting to wonder if there is anything I can do with my 401k funds to protect it against the possible cratering of the US economy if the Big Money Boys aren’t able to get the teahadists back in line… it’s scary.
Linnaeus
They’re not the ones who are ultimately responsible; the hostage-holding is an epiphenomenon resulting from the willingness of the ones really responsible – the rentier/financial/capitalist class – to support and use folks like Cantor.
Dexter
I am seeing a “Michelle Bachman for Preznit” banner above the Balloon-Juice header, most probably sponsored by Newsmax or some other right wing rag. So, if I click on it, does John get paid?
Southern Beale
Ha ha ha ha ha!!
Marcus & Michelle Bachmann save marriage for us all! (video)
JPL
OT…It appears that Minnesota is going to run dry. Bars and distributors cannot renew that state liquor license. So far these are the beers affected that will have be pulled from grocery shelves.
hahahahahahahaha
Cat Lady
Does Eric Cantor really want to be known as the person responsible for the US defaulting? Is it possible that he’s so stupid that he doesn’t understand what the “full faith and credit of the United States” means? Does he want to spend the rest of his miserable weaselly life looking over his shoulder and explaining to everyone not a teatard how it seemed like a good idea at the time? What a fucking clown, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he woke up with a horse head in his bed.
Southern Beale
@Dexter:
I don’t see an ad but I maybe have some setting clicked so that I don’t see ads …
Chris
I’d never have thought that a country could literally commit suicide, but it appears to be where we’re heading.
It’s absolutely mind-boggling to me that such a huge group of voters literally hate so much that they’re willing to shoot themselves in the foot, then the knees, then the balls, just in the hope that their bullet will go through the floor and hit the darkies, the immigrants, the unions, the Muslims, the DFH and their Kenyan president who live on the floor below. But that’s exactly what’s been happening. And I really don’t know what can be done about it; a country with this little solidarity has no viability over the long term.
CaseyL
I really really hope Obama has some kind of ultimate back-up plan, because it increasingly looks like the GOP is looking forward to causing what could be the biggest economic crash since the Industrial Revolution.
Those fuckers need to be locked up. Permanently. They constitute a clear and present danger to national security.
stuckinred
Chris
You give the people in this country too much credit. Most people have no fucking idea what is going on.
Southern Beale
@JPL:
First they came for the Miller Genuine Draft and I said nothing, because Miller Genuine Draft sucks ….
Little Boots
he wants to be known as speaker, Cat Lady. whatever gets him there is fine. he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer, so whatever comes after Speaker simply has never occurred to him. Yet.
Cacti
I don’t think it’s even a matter of holding hostages anymore. For teabaggers, if the liberals don’t like it, it must be good.
Liberals don’t want to wreck the world economy, ergo, we must wreck the world economy for freedom and baby Jesus.
piratedan
just watching CBS evening news, that gave 15 seconds to Bachmann and Gohmert stating that they don’t think the default is that big a deal and that everyone is exaggerating… plus the usual Chipper insinuation that played Cantor’s version first and then later on disputed it
John O
I’ve done everything I can within reason to prepare for this moment. Sadly, I doubt it will be enough.
The whole thing is fantastic from the perspective of fatalism. (I still don’t believe there’s any way Money Man lets the GOP off the hook on this one in the end.)
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
I think in this instance the AOS is right to cry. He couldn’t control that stupid weaselly dipweed Cantor, and though the banksters back the AOS, it’s starting to look like it’s too little too late. These fuckers really are willing to burn it down.
stuckinred
John O –
Hollow point and banana clips?
Just Some Fuckhead
Can’t we just pay them for a better rating?
Heliopause
Is it just me or has John done about 5000 posts today?
dmsilev
And Obama has apparently moved from “only reasonable guy in the room” to “Gandalf facing down the Balrog at the Bridge of Khazad-Dum”.
Via TPM,
When Obama runs out of patience, it’s time to head for the bomb shelters.
Cacti
I figured I might live to see the end of the dollar as the world’s default currency.
I never knew it might come as soon as 2011.
Montysano
@ stuckinred 26
I was driving a lot today and yesterday, so I heard some wingnut radio. The new meme, which Boortz, Hannity and Leving were working (and working hard) is that nothing bad will happen on 8/2. We got plenty ‘o cash. No worries, just say “No!” Also, too: “uppity”.
mr. whipple
I refuse to believe Obama lost his shit. I might believe he acted like he was losing it, tho.
PeakVT
Oh, fuck Moody’s. Seriously, they’re as big a menace to our financial system as any bank.
jl
SECOND SOLDIER. Peace, what noise?
THIRD SOLDIER. List, list!
SECOND SOLDIER. Hark!
THIRD SOLDIER. Music i’ th’ air.
FOURTH SOLDIER. Under the earth.
THIRD SOLDIER. It signs well, does it not?
FOURTH SOLDIER. No.
THIRD SOLDIER. Peace, I say! What should this mean?
SECOND SOLDIER. ‘Tis the god Big Money, whom the GOP lov’d,
Now leaves him.
THIRD SOLDIER. Walk; let’s see if other watchmen
Do hear what we do.
SECOND SOLDIER. How now, masters!
SOLDIERS. [Speaking together] How now!
How now! Do you hear this?
FIRST SOLDIER. Ay; is’t not strange?
THIRD SOLDIER. Do you hear, masters? Do you hear?
FIRST SOLDIER. Follow the noise so far as we have quarter;
Let’s see how it will give off.
SOLDIERS. Content. ‘Tis strange.
Exeunt
Litlebritdifrnt
I suppose Bohner could commit political suicide and go for the vote but the problem is he ain’t no Nancy Smash, he doesn’t have the power, he simply does not have the power to get the teahadists behind him, hell he has got Cantor actively going against him in an effort to get his job. Bohner is doomed, not matter what he does, but the bottom line is he does not have the leadership skills such as Nancy Smash to get the job done. He is possibly the worst leader of the House that I have seen, and I actually sympathize with him cause with his job hearding cats looks like a doddle.
Chris
He hasn’t lost his shit. Just his patience.
When you think about it, it was inevitable. The GOP strategy ever since he’s been elected has been nothing but push, push, push, we want, you give, and then we are happy. At some point, they were going to hit that line in the sand when he said “okay, we’re done here.”
Cacti
It’s like Fort Sumter happening under Buchanan.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Little Boots: LB, please stop concern trolling.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Heliopause: I’m thinking he must have declared that he was going Galt earlier in the day.
Just Some Fuckhead
I bet if we printed a trillion dollars and gave it to Moody’s we could get four A’s.
mr. whipple
I still refuse to believe it. Cantor is a booger eating piece of wingnut detritus not worthy of Obama’s contempt, let alone someone to get upset over.
Mark S.
I’m glad everyone’s finally losing their shit like I did a couple months ago. The teabaggers are completely fucking crazy and stupid and I knew they would do this. If the T-bond loses its AAA rating, every bank in the world is in deep shit. This will make 2008 seem like a walk in the park.
But 51% of the dumbasses in this country will periodically continue to vote Republican, because deep down they’re fiscally conservative(!).
stickler
As crazy as this situation in the USA is — and it’s bugnuts crazy, don’t get me wrong — remember, as Krugthulu has been pointing out for a while now, it’s not a lot smartelligenter in Europe, either. The Germans are forcing austerity on half the EU; Cameron’s Tories are cutting the UK’s budget for everything; it’s almost like everyone got a memory wipe for the fiscal years 1914-1998.
Very strange times, indeed. But one slightly-fishy-smelling ray of sunshine: you doubt the strength of the dollar … you buy … um, what, exactly? Euros? Renminmbi? Slightly radioactive Yen?
So there’s that.
RinaX
Just glanced at Anderson Cooper, and the blaring headline on the screen is that “President walks out of debt meeting”. However, over on MSNBC the headline is “Cantor accused of juvenile behavior”. Can’t stomach listing to any talking heads, though. I tend to wait to see how this plays out on the morning network shows and the evening news.
Suffern ACE
@mr. whipple: Except he’s peeing in everybody’s drink because he doesn’t want anyone to know that he doesn’t know how to mix a decent cocktail. I’d use him as a bar rag if I didn’t think he was too oily to be of any use.
birthmarker
Stuckinred–Graham quote is available on Politico, and it is from today. (I can’t link)
Zach
Ratings agency remarks on US debt are such a charade. If there were any real risk of American default, that means there’s a real risk of default practically everywhere. This is just Moody’s looking for an excuse to get their 2 cents in and demand a deal favorable to Republicans when it looks like it’s slipping away; their full statement demands a “credible agreement is … on a budget that includes long-term deficit reduction.” They’ve updated their website with a Drudge-esque banner across the top announcing their concern.
Chris
The difference is over here, it’s the people who’re bugnuts crazy. Look at Greece for the people freaking out in the streets at the fact that they’re being made to pay for the politicians and banksters’ mistakes. Over here, we have teabaggers squealing “more, more, more!”
I’ll agree that as far as governments go, Europe ain’t much of a prize, but I’d still say their people have more economic sense.
jl
Well, Moody’s says this or that, whatever…
The interesting. or scary, thing will be to see what will happen to financial and bond markets as banks and financials all try to pile up more cash reserves, at more and more rapid pace through end of July if debt ceiling not raised.
JPL
birthmarker I put the quote in google and the NYTimes is citing it also.
Suffern ACE
@Zach: Since no Democrats are in favor of long term deficits (it’s the short ones they want to keep), Moody’s is actually much closer to Dems than the Reps, who I believe are right now banking on “Default is good as it will immediately balance the budget.”
Linnaeus
Yeah, we should recall that Moody’s, along with Fitch and S&P were gladly pumping up crap assets as good investments and then when caught doing it said that “Well, that was just our opinion and it’s not our fault you trusted it.” So I have a hard time putting much stock into what Moody’s says. Of course, what I think doesn’t matter and perhaps the people who do matter still take Moody’s seriously.
Wannabe Speechwriter
Exclusive footage of the meeting between Tea Party Congressmen and the Monied interests of the GOP-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqcbgSpHMFs
Zach
@Suffern — Moody’s is threatening to review our credit in mid-July (which is, like, right now but that’s neither here nor there) whether or not an agreement is reached and says it’ll issue a negative outlook if we don’t reach a long-term agreement ASAP. Suffice to say, there’s not politically feasible long-term agreement right now that works well for Dems. The only possible way we get a fair long-term deal is by offloading the work and blame to a commission, and as we saw with Simpson/Bowles, this wouldn’t really work either.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
Because so-called Democrats, so-called liberals, and so-called progressives compromised their moral principles for expedient political compromise and “civility.” It didn’t start with President Obama, but he doesn’t get a pass.
.
.
PaulW
Just remember, the Republican party and their wingnut base are made up of people who buy into the whole Rapture thing: that is, these are a group of people who WANT God to end this sinful Earth.
That there’s reportedly a quarter of House Republicans who intentionally want the default to happen, just because they are convinced it will drown the naughty evil government in Grover’s bathtub once and for all… I am not surprised by that. At all.
Chris
@ Wannabe,
LMAO, well played!
I remember when the Tea Party Movement first crawled out of the woodwork and opened its mouth, my comment was “they fired Lex Luthor and hired the Joker.”
regeya
Would it surprise anyone to learn that, if you get your news solely from FOX News, that this mess is all Obama’s fault? If you believe their side of the story, Republicans are bravely standing up for what’s right and Obama stormed out like a baby.
Rob
teahadists, schmihadists
Montysano
@ Mark S. 71
The conventional wisdom here (and elsewhere) is that at some point, Wall Street would step in and say “Ok boys, that’s enough. Make a deal.” But… maybe not? Deal or no deal, the global Ponzi scheme has gone wobbly. The wheels are coming off. Is something else afoot?
rikyrah
man, Lawrence was great tonight. just saw a repeat of it online. terrific.
joes527
JPL
Stella isn’t on the list, so, no impact (yet).
cynn
Cat Lady: This is so crazy it’s nuts, but it keeps me up at night. My daughter is in Peru this month. We have had freaky strange storms here in Denver. I can’t get ahold of my kid. But the cats seem to know something.
Lojasmo
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/07/13/way-to-go-wingnuts/#comment-2670347
Mr. Whipple #61
I also agree that Obama did not lose his shit. I do believe, however, that cantor may have accidentally misplaced his by a few inches, and one sphincter
rob
Yeah, they get what they’re doing. No one will remember McConnell or Boehner, but they’ll remember that a black president trashed our credit rating. Always look for the deeper evil.
Davis X. Machina
And Cantor is doomed in turn.
Every Danton has his Robespierre. And Robespierre was dead four months after Danton.
CEE
You know, I ran my credit card up to 60 thousand dollars and now I can’t afford my prescriptions. It’s all the fault of those wingnut Bank of America folks that won’t raise my limit…. Seriously John, you’re either blinded by politics, or a complete idiot..
Captain Goto
Davis–Oh, would that it were true; if we have to have Le Terreur, it would be nice to see a few Jacobins and Girondists going down as prizes for Madame Guillotine…
Origuy
So when Minnesota Republicans go to the store and the beer shelves are empty, they’re not going to blame their wingnut legislators, they’re going to blame Obama. You watch.
Davis X. Machina
@Captain Goto: I don’t like to think what shape an American Terror, in the land of Fox and Rush, might take.
A bad peace is better than all but a few wars, and most anciens regimes are no worse than the very best revolutions.
BGinCHI
Oswalt a lurker here or poster?
He’d fit in pretty well.
Not as funny as a lot of the jackals, but it takes practice.
Captain Goto
@Davis: Oh, no argument…it’s going to really suck. But if the suck is going to be forced upon us, there’s a bitter satisfaction in knowing that some of the wingnuts are going to be fodder for the ravening beast, too.
JGabriel
@Montysano:
Wall St. already stepped in to say, “That’s enough.” It’s probably why McConnell finally revealed his compromise to trade real power over the debt ceiling to the president in exchange for the opportunity to keep bitching about it with repeated, easily vetoed, votes on the issue.
It may also be why Obama set a Friday deadline for the talks.
Guess we’ll know by the weekend if the House Republicans are stupid enough to ignore their corporate donors in favor of their extremist tea party voters.
.
Jeffro
John, did you swear off blogging for a month earlier today and we missed it?
Chris
Perhaps.
I have a theory, though, that the French revolution is what lit a fire under the asses of Europe’s elites, so that even after they’d put the genie back in the bottle, the image was always there in the back of their heads – “this is what happens when the people can’t take it anymore.” That was probably a big motivator behind all that changes that came over the course of the next century.
(Not that I’m rooting for Robespierre or Hebert. And I agree that in the U.S. in its present state, a revolution would be a disaster. We’re more likely to get a military or outright fascist government than anything else if things collapse completely).
jl
@104 Chris
But the had some little detours on way to progress, 1848… 1914…
Admiral_Komack
“How did we get to the point that the world economy is held hostage by people who think Jesus rode a dinosaur but paid cash up front for it (because he refused to carry any debt, doncha know)?”
Well, it all started when the American electorate elected a nigg (GONG!) President in November 2008, and people lost their ever-lovin’ minds.
opie jeanne
Can someone here help me understand what my local teaparty nutcases have got their panties in a bind about? Something called the UN Agenda 21, and they’re freaking out over what that means to rural property rights or something.
I can’t make sense of what I’ve read.
Admiral_Komack
44. @Cat Lady:
I’d be happy if they found Cantor’s head in a horse’s stall.
Brian
Japan was down-graded and they didn’t see increased borrowing costs. They have a debt-to-GDP ratio worse than ours, and they yield 1.09 on a 10-year. Also, too, wouldn’t the bond yield go UP if we were so screwed? Interest is the price of risk, so if we’re a big risk due to the defaultpocalypse, why did the rates fall?
Admiral_Komack
29. @The Dangerman
You are a better man than I am.
I envision Cantor dying ala Luca Brasi, with Boehner pinning Cantor’s hands to the bar with stilettoes, and McConnell garroting the smarmy bastard.
Admiral_Komack
107. @opie jeanne:
Agenda21
Agenda 21 is a comprehensive plan of action to be taken globally, nationally and locally by organizations of the United Nations System, Governments, and Major Groups in every area in which human impacts on the environment.
Agenda 21, the Rio Declaration on Environment and Development, and the Statement of principles for the Sustainable Management of Forests were adopted by more than 178 Governments at the United Nations Conference on Environment and Development (UNCED) held in Rio de Janerio, Brazil, 3 to 14 June 1992.
The Commission on Sustainable Development (CSD) was created in December 1992 to ensure effective follow-up of UNCED, to monitor and report on implementation of the agreements at the local, national, regional and international levels. It was agreed that a five year review of Earth Summit progress would be made in 1997 by the United Nations General Assembly meeting in special session.
The full implementation of Agenda 21, the Programme for Further Implementation of Agenda 21 and the Commitments to the Rio principles, were strongly reaffirmed at the World Summit on Sustainable Development (WSSD) held in Johannesburg, South Africa from 26 August to 4 September 2002.
http://www.un.org/esa/dsd/agenda21/
I hope this helps.
shano
Yes, the Admiral is right, but in wing nuttia this gets tied into a conspiracy theory that the rothschilds and the global elite want the population to be 500 million so they will do everything it takes to kill off billions of people, etc etc etc
It is one of the more complicated nutter theories -about environmental regulations/carbon tax/climate change et al-
Monkey Business
Rule #1 of taking a hostage is that in order to be successful, you must be willing to kill the hostage, and the people you’re negotiating with must believe that you are willing to kill the hostage. Without that, it’s just theater.
I think we’re moving past the point where the Obama Administration and Wall Street believes that the GOP won’t kill the hostage. These guys are sitting in the White House and Congress going “Holy shit, these guys are serious. They’re actually not going to raise the debt limit unless there’s an absolutely insane economy destroyer attached to it.”
There are 254 Republican members of the House of Representatives. About fifty of them will not raise the debt limit under any circumstances. Continuing the hostage-taker analogy, these guys are going to shoot the hostage no matter what.
There are probably a hundred to a hundred and fifty other Representatives that will raise the debt ceiling, under either draconian or completely unrealistic circumstances. We’re talking $4 trillion in cuts with none to defense, no revenue increases, eliminating a Social Security and Medicare, and a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution with 50-state approval. These are the guys asking for a fully fueled 747, a billion dollars, and free passage to a non-extradition treaty country.
That leaves fifty to a hundred Representatives who understand the danger of default, and are willing to negotiate, including revenue increases. These are the guys you can negotiate with. They just want a pizza, a million dollars, and a private plane to drop them off in a non-extradition country. After that, they’ll return the hostage.
Boehner is negotiating on behalf of 250 people, fifty of whom won’t vote for what he agrees on and a hundred to hundred and fifty that will only sign an agreement that can’t possibly garner even token Democratic support in the House and will never make it past the Senate, much less the White House.
Basically, it’s up to the Democrats and a handful of Republicans to pass a debt limit increase, whether it’s a clean bill or something far reaching. The problem with this is that if Boehner passes either with majority Democrat support, he’s done as Speaker. There might be a full on revolt in the House GOP. He could lose his seat in Congress. Cantor would almost assuredly be voted in as Speaker in the next House GOP leadership elections, and every Representative that voted for the debt limit increase would probably face a primary challenge.
The GOP has painted themselves into a corner to a point where they can either do what’s right for America and almost assuredly end their political careers very quickly, or completely fuck America, and almost assuredly end their political careers later.
The great legacy of the Tea Party may not be the 2010 Midterm elections, but rather their slate of candidates, and how they destroyed the world economy.
The worst part about it is that 30-40% of Americans will blame the Democrats.
Monkey Business
Oh yeah, and McConnell’s an idiot. His plan is almost certainly unconstitutional, as it would transfer the power of the purse to the Executive branch, creating the Imperial Presidency that our forefathers specifically set up the rest of government to prevent.
Honestly, if they want to punt on this, then why not let them punt on everything? Let’s just abolish Congress, and every four years we’ll elect a new President/King.
Steeplejack
@General Stuck:
LOL.
Mike G
Ah yes, the Flounder from Animal House argument:
“You fucked up — you trusted us.”
Chris
Wow the fucking thiefs and crook that run my country are fucking amazing, I’m so sick of America and the fake ass people that live here !
The Raven
They don’t have the imagination, and Koch Industries, which is not dependent on borrowing, will do fine. Koch is not finance; they’re oil and other extractive resources.
Recently, there was a huge leak of ALEC documents to The Nation. The truth is in there, or at least part of it, overview post. The rest of the work that’s been done so far is published in The Nation, but you’ll have to pay for most of it, index article. One nasty bit, which they did publish: the PPACA? ALEC influenced it hugely, article. Now you know who made sure we didn’t get single payer, or even a public option.
opie jeanne
@Admiral and shano, thanks. I did a bit of research on it before I asked, but I couldn’t figure out the bit that shano provided, which means they’re really bug-fuck crazy, as I suspected but couldn’t figure out the details.
Another Bob
Just curious: who made Moody’s the captains of the universe? Why is a Wall Street firm lecturing the U.S. government over a largely political issue — the U.S. debt level — while we’re in the midst of a near economic catastrophe that credit rating firms were largely responsible for? At what point does their intrusiveness and manipulativeness amount to blackmail?
Chris
@ Monkey Business,
Well summarized. Summonned images of the movie The Rock, where two of the rogue Marines really do want to kill civilians, then flip a shit and mutiny when it’s clear that’s not going to happen.
As for your last sentence – 30-40% of Americans is generous to the extreme. That’s the number of people who’ll blame the Democrats no matter what (the number of people who kept voting Republican even at the lowest point of the Great Depression). Noise machine and current context taken into consideration, it could easily be much more than that.
Rome Again
I heard this morning on my local music station (KSLX in Phoenix) that the majority of the American public don’t want the debt ceiling raised. Hmmmm, I guess they want to lose their homes, their jobs, the food on their tables, all while watching people starve and die in the streets instead? Yeah, that sounds like JUST WHAT THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS WANT – NOT!
chopper
this is how it must have felt to watch congress passing smoot-hawley.