Sir Paul Stephenson’s grilling before the Home Affairs committee is happening now, Murdoch and Brooks are coming later. It’s being shown on cable on BBC America — here’s a live stream. I couldn’t find a live stream watchable in the US, maybe someone can link to one in the comments. So far, questions are smarter and more pointed, and the pace of the hearing is much faster than a Senate or House committee.
“Gate” is an overused suffix, but I agree with James Fallows on this:
Notes to the young: this is the first story in memory that recreates the effect of living through Watergate. The revelations don’t stop, what would have seemed unimaginable fantasy a week ago is hard news today, and there is no obvious firebreak ahead that will bring the disclosures to an end. I suspect that some people on the other end of the revelations have thought about the parallel too.
I mis-spent a good part of the summer of 1973 watching the Watergate hearings on TV. One big difference between that scandal and this one is that John Dean or Alexander Butterfield weren’t found dead in their apartment the day after John Mitchell or Spiro Agnew resigned.
scav
OK< space alien day or the yeti walks into a Tescos. Or at least something of that umph and ilk they way things have been going.
kdaug
That’s the ding.
Sly
So people know where to look when it starts: Murdoch and Brooks will appear before the Culture, Media, and Sports Committee at 2:30PM GMT, not the Home Affairs Committee.
The hearing should be streamed live here at around 9:30AM EST.
aimai
Uh–Iran Contra and Anita Hill come to mind.
aimai
PK
Nothing happened as a result of Iran-contra, and Thomas went on to become a judge, happily extracting vengeance on a long suffering populace.
MikeJ
@scav:
They keep their machine room cold enough for it.
c u n d gulag
I spent way too much time watching the hearings, too.
As I recall, G. Gordon Liddy did ask what phone booth they wanted him at in order to rub him out.
But even the Nixon cabal stopped short of murder.
arguingwithsignposts
The stupidest thing about the “gate” suffix is it’s part of the damned name of the hotel, and shouldn’t have become a suffix to denote scandal to begin with. It would be like if, because Napolean got his ass kicked at Waterloo, people called it default-loo or government shutdown-loo or something. I’d like to haul whoever came up with the -gate abbreviation before the world court of stupid abuses of the English language.
Proposed sentence: 10 years hard labor correcting abuses of the they’re/their/there and its/it’s distinctions … In the comments section of news web sites.
General Stuck
Yea, I watched a lot of the Watergate Hearings in 73, when I was off duty from being in the army. I would pick up a bottle Tequila on the way home, to get my mind right for watching that circus. And oddly enough, it seemed fairly normal considering the times, just another ring of uncovering another act of deep dishonesty, that we were all weaned on back in those days. But nobody threatened to bring it all down, like the tea tards are doing today with the debt ceiling horseshit.
There was at least a sense still, in those days, that dirty laundry should be aired when the stench got to a certain level. Now we have Candy Crowley and the rest of the “both sides do it” crowd, blending and blurring the right and the wrong of all things government.
I am glad to see the British seem to have a breaking point with this bullshit. I keep hoping every day, for us to rediscover ours, but it seems a fat chance of that happening anytime soon. And one of the big reasons for that, is the Faux News phenomenon causing the rest of the media to copy what they do, because all the idiots glued to their signal, give them the biggest share. And the others want what Fox is having.
Don’t know about others, but I have always had a sneaking sense that there was a river of shit beneath Fox and Rupert, that they were coasting on in a shiny but leaky boat. Maybe, with any luck, that ship done sailed into the sunset.
Yurpean
You’ve obviously not heard about the Peterloo massacre
Jennifer
What we’re seeing here that we haven’t seen in a scandal in a long, long time is that the criminals had a good portion of the establishment slogging through the sewers along with them before all was said and done.
Absolute corruption corrupts absolutely.
Hey – that could make a great vodka ad!
scav
Arguingwithwignposts: But I swear my they/the was a simple typos Ï swear I swear I swear! All right m’lud, which phone box to I report to.
psssh. Stephenson’s efforts reek of the lamp. Quotes from Shakespeare and visions of the Met secretaries quickly totting up the press marketshares before getting back on the phone: “No No, so sorry, he’s not available to meet with you for lunch at this time, the Mirror sold unexpectedly with last Sunday with its CD giveaway. Pick up your game chaps. Pip Pip!”
Joseph Nobles
If you’ve got cable, it’s on CSPAN2.
Yurpean
Peterloo in fact leads to where we are today – the Manchester Guardian was formed as a reaction to Peterloo.
Joseph Nobles
The banner under the hearing says that the Murdoch section of the day will be on CSPAN3.
alwhite
Current TV has them to with KO & John Dean doing the coverage (I love that they brought in Dean – he knows a tiny bit about -gates).
I love the fact that MPs do not try to turn the thing into a speech giving spectacle. Ask the damn question & save the long-winded blovating for your campaign trips!
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I was two when Watergate occurred, but some of this also sounds like the McCarthy hearings.
cathyx
I was just a kid during Watergate. All I remember is boring grownups talking about boring things.
scav
We must have had very flat clothes at that time as I remember my my mother being obsessed with it and watching while ironing.
gocart mozart
I’m still pissed that the Watergate hearings preempted my afternoon cartoon watching plans.
moonbat
I was heartened to see NBC Nightly News made it their top story last night, so I have some hope that this will spread like wildfire to this side of the Atlantic. If 9/11 victims get pulled into this, all bets are off. The press establishment will have to choose between Murdochs billions and the people they have been making hay off for the past 10 years. If they go for Murdoch the mask is officially off — Let the class war begin! If they chose the 9/11 victims — Investigate the crap out of News Corpse! I have a feeling though that there are enough people who have been stepped on or over looked by the Fox folks that the knives are coming out in the US too.
arguingwithsignposts
@Yurpean:
How ironic.
Violet
I hope people don’t assign a “gate” suffix to this one. It’s bigger than a “gate.” Watergate was the original and the reason all the others have the “gate” suffix.
Don’t belittle this collusion by rich and powerful interests that crosses from media to law enforcement to politicians to who knows else by just calling it a “gate”. It’s much larger than that. This scandal deserves its own name and others can then play off that name for years to come.
different church-lady
It ain’t quite Watergate until there’s daily congressional hearings televised on the major networks every day for the whole summer. One of the things that made Watergate Watergate was that you absolutely could not avoid it.
Please don’t give them any ideas.
Then again, perhaps “Murdochloo” has appealing qualities, especially considering the British connotations of “loo”.
arguingwithsignposts
@different church-lady: I still like DougJ’s Rupertdammerung.
shortstop
Small point of clarification: Agnew wasn’t involved in Watergate; he went down for tax evasion. It only reinforced the general perception that the whole Nixon administration was bent.
Rommie
I’m just glad this all started in England rather than here.
Violet
Stephenson (former head of Scotland Yard) threw Cameron under the bus:
I wonder if Cameron can hold on.
Lurking Canadian
My dad, not generally conspiracy minded, is convinced that Agnew’s ouster was part of Watergate. Essentially, he thinks the people in charge knew Nixon would have to go, but also knew that Agnew would be a disaster. Therefore, Agnew had to go first.
shortstop
Violet @28: Ouch. A week ago, I’d have said he’ll hold on with no problem. Now, I don’t think he will.
I will say it again: This scandal has it all over that Casey Anthony bullshit. It combines several of my top interests — politics, media, mystery and arrogant conservatives in agony. I can’t take my eyes off it.
gocart mozart
Smaller point of clarification: Agnew was charged with accepting bribes and copped a deal which included pleading to tax evasion and resigning.
MazeDancer
Parliament Committee questioning the Met guys has been fascinating. (Watching BBC4 via NYTimes: http://goo.gl/maAan)
Scotland Yard’s PR Chief was strangely bumbling. Heads of PR at most US orgs are smart, fast, clever, well-spoken, quick on their feet, and telegenic. He was none of the above. Or at least didn’t appear to be.
Also imagining Watergate hearings with Twitter. Because reading tweets while watching is most enjoyable. Must make the Brits feel more tangibly what happened during Watergate: We’re all watching this at once.
shortstop
Lurking @29: Something to that. I just meant that Agnew wasn’t directly or even indirectly involved in the break-in or cover-up.
The tapes show that Nixon then chose Ford because he was convinced that the country would look at him, look at Jerry, and shudder at the prospect of Ford as president. Didn’t quite turn out that way.
JGabriel
mistermix @ Top:
True, but Martha Mitchell claimed she was kidnapped and held against her will. Mitchell died in 1976 from myeloma; some people considered the circumstances suspicious. Others think that’s a conspiracy theory — but since Watergate is a conspiracy, who the fuck knows?
.
shortstop
gocart: Yep. Just thought it was simpler to say what he actually pled to in the end, rather than get into the multiple charges that were reduced to one for the plea.
Chris
Yeah, seriously.
I was hoping Bush would be ours – I mean, how much worse can any president fuck up? Then the teabaggers crawled out of the woodwork, and I remembered that Nixon and Reagan/Bush had left the government in just as big a clusterfuck, only to have their party bounce back in a matter of a few years because hey, the new guy hated America and was a socialist and politically correct and all that shudder-inducing stuff.
I’m falling back on my “the American people want to vote Republican but still get Democratic results” theory. Hence the endless string of second chances. If someone can explain to me why some abused spouses keep going back to their husbands, maybe I’ll understand it better.
Chris
Yeah, seriously.
I was hoping Bush would be ours – I mean, how much worse can any president fuck up? Then the teabaggers crawled out of the woodwork, and I remembered that Nixon and Reagan/Bush had left the government in just as big a clusterfuck, only to have their party bounce back in a matter of a few years because hey, the new guy hated America and was a soshulist and politically correct and all that shudder-inducing stuff.
I’m falling back on my “the American people want to vote Republican but still get Democratic results” theory. Hence the endless string of second chances. If someone can explain to me why some abused spouses keep going back to their husbands, maybe I’ll understand it better.
Dennis SGMM
@gocart mozart:
And a memorable sidelight. Part of Agnew’s deal was that he had to return the bribes. He ran afoul of the IRS again when he attempted to declare the sums as a loss on a subsequent tax return.
I was in my mid-twenties when the Watergate hearings were held. I managed to listen to them gavel-to-gavel back when NPR was still run in the public interest.
shortstop
Now that I hadn’t heard! Unbelievable. Balls. Watermelons. Compare.
I was way too young to pay attention to the Watergate hearings, but became deeply interested in them as an adult. It’s not just a fascinating story with lots of intriguing layers; it can be a comforting one to read about when I’m distressed by the total lack of accountability for more recent presidential crimes. Watergate is a little morality play with things spinning out as they should: the people are properly outraged by the corruption and demand justice, and the bad guys get theirs. That American outrage appears to have died forever.
MazeDancer
They’re early! Murdochs questioning is live now: http://goo.gl/maAan
Rupert: This is the most humble day of my life.
pete
Worth noting: Watergate went on and on — the break-in was on June 17, 1972 and those of us paying attention knew about the white house connection in principle not long after, but Nixon didn’t quit until August 9, 1974, more than two years later. The moment I was certain it would all end that way was the “Saturday Night Massacre” of October 20, 1973.
So don’t be surprised if this story is big next year …
TomG
I’ve read a couple of John Dean’s books. They are pretty compelling reading.
RalfW
Felix Salmon is live-tweeting and the livestream is here on Reuters
http://live.reuters.com/Event/News_Corp_phone-hacking_scandal
arguingwithsignposts
FYI, DougJ has a more recent thread above.
RossInDetroit
@Pete;
This will no doubt take a long time to unravel. The extent of the scandal and quantity of data to be sorted, for starters. With the FBI and DOJ involved we’ll hear little of the details until they’re ready to lower the boom. That could be a year or more.
kerFuFFler
[email protected]
Perhaps we can add murder to the list!
pete
@kerFuFFler: Neads moar suxuel raletions also too
Villago Delenda Est
That would be Nixon White House minion William Safire.
Recall that what eventually sunk Nixon was the White House taping system, which the Select Senate Watergate Committee (which held sessions during the summer of ’73) had not heard of until Alexander Butterfield let slip the existence of. THEN the committee demanded that Nixon turn over the tapes of his conversations with his various aides.
The one piece of evidence that sank Nixon was the “Smoking Gun” tape that revealed that all his protestations that he knew NOTHING of the Watergate break in or the coverup surrounding it were absolute lies. He lied, repeatedly, to Congress, the American people, and his own lawyers about it.
Suicidal Zebra
A point that is coming out of all these stories, press briefings and committees is that ALL these guys at the top know each other. They invite each other to dinner, went to school/college together, have children attending the same schools/colleges. Heck, some even go to Spa’s conveniently partially owned by others who have been implicated in Met corruption. In such an environment you don’t need to look and sound good in front of a camera to be in PR, just have an elite school tie and be in good standing with the right restaurants.
It’s truly shocking to see that the small number of people at the ‘top’ of British society are all in bed together. You can bet your bottom dollar that once this has all blown over, which it will, these same guys will still be running the show and those who have resigned will be installed in a cushy spot elsewhere. The game is rigged, and it stinks to high heaven.
Woodrow/asim Jarvis Hill
@Villago Delenda Est:
English Language Pendant William Safire, of the (im)famous newspaper columns?
The irony, it burns.
shortstop
Villago Delenda Est
It’s good that there’s very little sex involved in this scandal, apart from Rupert doing the nasty with James’ mom.
Because sex scandals are all about the puritans tut-tutting over people having fun somewhere.
alwhite
I’m glad it was noted that Agnew’s real crime was taking bribes. One was even delivered to him – in the White House – by a mob bag man. The man was mobbed up from his time as a petty pol in MD. These were the “law and order” candidates of 1968. Republican shamelessness and double-dealing did not start with Boy George’s “compassionate Conservationism”
joes527
A president of the United States lied (HE LIED!) to congress and the American people and he lost the office because of it.
Ah, for those more innocent days …
Villago Delenda Est
Joe, what was telling was that after the smoking gun came out, every last one of his defenders on the House Judiciary Committee, who voted against articles of impeachment, announced that they would support those articles when the vote came before the House entire.
The lie was too great for even his most loyal defenders to stomach.
This was the point where it was painfully obvious to everyone but Richard Nixon that he was doomed. He had perhaps half a dozen votes, total, in the Senate to acquit. Barry Goldwater was in the delegation of Senators who approached Nixon and apparently convinced him to resign…that there was no point in prolonging the process.
karen marie
Is James Murdoch also an American citizen?
evap
What just happened???
kestral
What the hell was that?! Did somebody just try to attack Murdoch physically? Wow. This is crazy.
Catsy
Some dumbshit crashed the proceedings and pied Rupert in the face with a plate full of shaving cream.
I’m laughing my ass off, because Murdoch is probably one of the top ten people in the world who really deserves it, but that was still a fucking retarded thing to do. All it’s going to do is portray the anti-Murdoch crowd as wild-eyed crazies and generate undeserved sympathy for him.
dollared
Gang, I live in hope but I fear that this will be the end of it. Next: Long, quiet criminal investigations ending in “haven’t (our friends and once and future colleagues) suffered enough?,” more abject apologies, look forward not backward, and business as usual.
Really, the only hope is that the Guardian can somehow keep it alive. And in the US? Who will lead the charge? The NYT? Really? You really believe that???
Kathleen
Amen, General Stuck @9. Will we ever experience a breaking point with our media? Unfortunately, we don’t have any papers that are equal to The Guardian. Or a populace with an outrage overload tilt button.