Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Everybody saw this coming.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

I really should read my own blog.

I’d like to think you all would remain faithful to me if i ever tried to have some of you killed.

Today’s GOP: why go just far enough when too far is right there?

Insiders who complain to politico: please report to the white house office of shut the fuck up.

After roe, women are no longer free.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

Take hopelessness and turn it into resilience.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

You can’t love your country only when you win.

We still have time to mess this up!

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Balloon Juice has never been a refuge for the linguistically delicate.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

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Reader Interactions

225Comments

  1. 1.

    The Populist

    Man, usually these onion articles crack me up but this one is just sad and infuriating.

  2. 2.

    NonyNony

    See this is how you know it’s satire:

    “It is a question that, I think, is worthy of serious consideration: Should we take steps to avoid a crippling, decades-long depression that would lead to disastrous consequences on a worldwide scale? Or should we not do that?” asked House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA)

    Eric Cantor would never say anything that intelligent.

  3. 3.

    dmsilev

    It’s a more accurate summary than anything which has appeared in Politico for, well, forever.

    When did the comedians overtake the supposedly serious journalists?

  4. 4.

    RP

    I am sooo out of touch! I had no idea the Onion was doing straight news coverage. When did they start?

  5. 5.

    Poopyman

    @NonyNony:

    Yeah, there’s that, but otherwise it’s as straight a piece of reporting as you’d ever see in the WaPo or NYT. And therein lies Cole’s depression.

  6. 6.

    Poopyman

    When did the comedians overtake the supposedly serious journalists?

    Shortly after everyone recovered their balance after 9/11/01. Well, actually the MSM still hasn’t recovered, and isn’t likely to.

  7. 7.

    evinfuilt

    @RP

    What you said, the Onion just did what no normal news outlet will do, actually say what is REALLY happening.

  9. 9.

    Stillwater

    Congress Continues Debate Over Whether Or Not Nation Should Be Economically Ruined

    Personally, I think people get too focused on the ‘ruined’ part, and don’t focus enough on the upside.

  10. 10.

    NonyNony

    @Poopyman

    Yeah, there’s that, but otherwise it’s as straight a piece of reporting as you’d ever see in the WaPo or NYT. And therein lies Cole’s depression.

    I’m afraid I need to disagree with that remark.

    It’s a straighter piece of reporting than you’d ever see in the WaPo or the NYT. The Onion, being a comedy website, is allowed to blatantly point out what’s actually being debated. The WaPo and the NYT, being “serious newspapers” have to dance around the topic and come up with a variety of euphemisms and “some say .. while others suggest …” formulations lest they be accused of “taking sides” with their “biased journalism”.

  11. 11.

    celticdragonchick

    The fact that we are even talking about this convinces me our days as a great power are about finished.

    That whole curse about “May you live in interesting times.”?

    It really sucks to experience it.

  12. 12.

    Stillwater

    Like,

    Economic collapse promises exciting new opportunities in home gardening

    or

    Economic collapse is an excellent opportunity to rethink your retirement strategies

    I think there’s potential here. People might could be sold on it.

  13. 13.

    Poopyman

    @NonyNony:

    Actually, I was being kind of snarky when I said “as straight as”. I too think the WaPo or NYT or any other outlet is incapable of speaking the truth. And that’s why my last line should be read straight.

  14. 14.

    Han's Big Snark Solo

    So I clicked the link and read the article and must admit, I’m a tad confused.

    I thought The Onion was a comedy site, this reeks of straight up reporting.

  15. 15.

    Poopyman

    @celticdragonchick:

    It seems like we’ve already fallen far, doesn’t it? Yet there’s still a long way to go before the survivors are digging through the landfills for anything that might help with their survival.

  16. 16.

    NonyNony

    @celticdragonchick

    The fact that we are even talking about this convinces me our days as a great power are about finished.

    The fact that we’re talking about this convinces me that our days as a great power deserve to be finished.

    I’m still waiting for the Saudis or someone else in the Middle East to say “US dollars are too risky what with all the craziness going on there – for the future you need to start buying your oil with renminbi”. Which would truly fuck us over but good.

    But we’d still have more nukes than anyone else AND the largest army in the world at that point. What could possibly go wrong.

    Sigh.

    Now I’m depressed. Thanks a lot Cole.

  17. 17.

    Yevgraf

    Kortney and the giant veggie are still unfortunately on the screen, but at least that’s countered by the luscious pic of the snorg tee girl…

  18. 18.

    Martin

    I think they actually missed their mark and presented a somewhat overly rosy view of the situation. The GOP isn’t debating whether to ruin the economy or not, they’re debating HOW to ruin the economy – default or crippling spending cuts. That’s quite accurately the House debate right now.

  19. 19.

    NonyNony

    @Poopyman

    Actually, I was being kind of snarky when I said “as straight as”.

    Yeah I figured that was the case. I was just being an ass because it’s been one of those days.

  22. 22.

    drew42

    “The GOP’s gleeful insistence on skull-fucking the U.S. economy appears to have raised a few eyebrows.

    Let’s hope cooler heads prevail.”

    – a typical Steven Benen post.

  23. 23.

    Violet

    Members of the U.S. Congress reported Wednesday they were continuing to carefully debate the issue of whether or not they should allow the country to descend into a roiling economic meltdown of historically dire proportions

    It’s not just the US economy. An English friend emailed me yesterday wondering why the US Congress seems hell bent on ruining the global economy. I didn’t quite know how to respond. Trying to explain how the Tea Party holds the GOP hostage because they might get primaried is the truth, but sounds incredibly ridiculous to anyone who doesn’t live here.

  24. 24.

    4tehlulz

    Should we start a pool on when Fitch pulls the trigger on our bond rating?

    I call Friday at 2:30 p.m.

  26. 26.

    The Dangerman

    Should Nation’s economy be ruined? Depends; will it help it either kicking the Black Dude out of the White House or help jumpstart Civil War II? Burning down the (White) House in order to save it, doncha know…

  27. 27.

    Ash Can

    I’m glad to see that the Onion is still going, and that its writers and editors haven’t closed up the offices and headed off en masse to some local saloon to hold an Irish wake for irony.

  28. 28.

    General Stuck

    Congress Continues Debate Over Whether Or Not Nation Should Be Economically Ruined

    No, not weep, make a fucking decision and realize we are in a war of sorts, and the only real enemy is republicans, and not Obama’s impurities, that must be marinated every single fucking day under the independent thinking progressives, to get their protest on. It is like the time in high school football, I recovered a fumble and raced to the end zone. The wrong one. Make a decision to not be a chump.

    Make a decision you are not going to support unfounded or trivial complaints about democrats, from not getting all you want, and support them to do battle with the plundering wingnuts, and help best you can. Quit fucking whining about progs and prog heroes not worshipped in the acceptably reverent manner, especially those accused of felonies.

    Make a decision, that you are going to oppose people like Glen Greenwald, Jane Hamsher, and Adam Green, that go on teevee every day and misrepresent themselves and the facts, as the voice of :THE: Base, and feed the media bullshit machine a special blend from the so called pro left.

    Make a decision to focus, get off your asses, and do your own fucking fighting against the wingnuts and stop whining that others are not doing it right, in whatever small way you can, and not spend all goddam day rifling through the ethers to come up with a half ass nugget to bash those politicians on your side with on the blogs. This isn’t another day at the beach, not in these days.

    And realize, there is little governing to be done, while the wingnuts are on the march. They mean business, or else. Can you stop them? And, what are you prepared to do?

    Have a nice motherfucking day!

  29. 29.

    licensed to kill time

    @drew42:

    I have read Benen for years and I have noticed that he is becoming increasingly shrill lately. Which is a good thing!

  31. 31.

    Pat

    Bernie Sanders: “The Gang of Six plan reduces the top marginal income tax rate for the wealthiest Americans and most profitable corporations from 35% to as low as 23% (about 34% lower than the top tax rates under Bush).
    Instead of reforming the Alternative Minimum Tax, it abolishes it altogether providing a major tax cut for the wealthiest Americans.

    It reduces the deficit by about $3.7 trillion over 10 years, while providing a net tax cut of $1.5 trillion that will mainly go to the wealthiest Americans and most profitable corporations.

    In other words, 100% of the deficit reduction achieved by the Gang of Six plan is through spending cuts to programs like Medicare, Medicaid, education, child care, Head Start, LIHEAP, environmental protection, and other programs that the sick, the elderly, the children, and working families need.”

  32. 32.

    KG

    Should Nation’s economy be ruined? Depends; will it help it either kicking the Black Dude out of the White House or help jumpstart Civil War II?

    You know what? Fuck ’em. They want a Civil War, let’s just cut to the chase and partition the country. We can probably break the country up pretty easily along college conference lines anyways.

  33. 33.

    Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)

    BWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAH

    GOP will nix bipartisan ‘Gang of Six’ debt proposal because Obama took credit for it, source says. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2011/07/20/2011-07-20_gop_will_nix_bipartisan_gang_of_six_debt_proposal_because_obama_took_credit_for_.html

    “The President killed any chance of its success by 1) Embracing it. 2) Hailing the fact that it increases taxes. 3) Saying it mirrors his own plan,”

    Gawd, I love Obama. He knows how to play them like a fiddle. Nevertheless, we had people wringing their hands yesterday, believing the House would agree to a trillion dollars in new taxes. How in the world could they agree to trillions in taxes.

  35. 35.

    General Stuck

    In other words, 100% of the deficit reduction achieved by the Gang of Six plan is through spending cuts to programs like Medicare, Medicaid, education, child care, Head Start, LIHEAP, environmental protection, and other programs that the sick, the elderly, the children, and working families need.”

    100 percent, Really? that is fascinating. Do you have that in writing somewhere, or a link? What about military cuts? etc….

  36. 36.

    daveNYC

    Should we start a pool on when Fitch pulls the trigger on our bond rating?

    They’ll wait until the absolute last possible second. This isn’t about our ability to pay our debt, it’s about our willingness to do so. So any analysis is more about the political situation, which Fitch is probably more than happy to stay the hell away from. Plus any downgrade would have a huge and non-temporary impact.

  38. 38.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    .
    .
    Fortunately, President Obama has skillfully negotiated a “meet them 90 percent of the way” compromise of undeniable ferocity.
    .
    .

  39. 39.

    Martin

    In other words, 100% of the deficit reduction achieved by the Gang of Six plan is through spending cuts to programs like Medicare, Medicaid, education, child care, Head Start, LIHEAP, environmental protection, and other programs that the sick, the elderly, the children, and working families need.

    Ok, does anyone want me to explain this again, because it doesn’t seem to help at all?

  43. 43.

    General Stuck

    because it doesn’t seem to help at all?

    No use. You can lead ratfuckers to water, but you can’t make them fink.

  44. 44.

    Culture of Truth

    Gang O’ 6 Plan:

    “…calls for the Armed Services Committee to cut $80 billion, for the Agriculture Committee to cut $11 billion and the Judiciary Committee to save money through changing medical malpractice laws.”

    Well I’m sold.

  46. 46.

    Maude

    @daveNYC:
    Don’t forget that the rating agencies gave good ratings to the rotten CDOs.

    @Violet:
    It’s class warfare. The Repubs consider anyone but them part of the criminal class and would like to transport us, but there’s a lack of places to send us to.

  48. 48.

    Culture of Truth

    She went into dumb voice and it was so dark, I haven’t laughed hard about the debt ceiling stupidity until I saw it.

    We ruin economy? Wreck economy not good!

  49. 49.

    Culture of Truth

    That only refers to the initial $500B, not the whole plan.

    We can get the other 4 trillion out of tort reform

  50. 50.

    Martin

    Actually, put another way: Do you think Mark Warner (chair) and Dick Durbin would sign off on a plan that would do this:

    In other words, 100% of the deficit reduction achieved by the Gang of Six plan is through spending cuts to programs like Medicare, Medicaid, education, child care, Head Start, LIHEAP, environmental protection, and other programs that the sick, the elderly, the children, and working families need.

    Honestly, if you are so convinced that Democrats like Durbin are that completely, pathetically worthless, why do you even align yourself with the party at all – even to vote for Democrats? Or do you think possibly, even remotely, that you might have this wrong? Does that even occur to you?

  51. 51.

    JC

    Am I allowed to not like the Gang of Six plan?

    And the fact that Obama praised it?

    I do hope he is playing chess above my poor pay grade.

    And I mean that truly. I look forward to be pleasantly pleased at the end of this.

    that is my prayer.

  52. 52.

    shortstop

    drew42: funny and accurate, except that “Let’s hope” should be the “Here’s hoping” with which he formulaically ends approximately 43 percent of his posts.

  53. 53.

    Culture of Truth

    You can lead ratfuckers to water

    “There’s a black guy drinking out of that! I’m not thirsty anymore.”

  54. 54.

    The Dangerman

    @KG:

    We can probably break the country up pretty easily along college conference lines anyways.

    Well, they’ve already got the Flag, so they have a foot in the door (or grave). Can we agree that we could make them keep NASCAR down there? Or, at least, any good ol’ boy flying the Rebel colors in our territory get sent off for hard labor?

  55. 55.

    MattR

    @Martin:

    Honestly, if you are so convinced that Democrats like Durbin are that completely, pathetically worthless, why do you even align yourself with the party at all – even to vote for Democrats?

    Because as bad as those Democrats might be the party as a whole is still a significant improvement over the Republicans? At least that is what I seem to remember being drilled into my head here anytime anyone suggests not voting for a Democrat.

    I am not making any statements about the factual accuracy of the reported deal. Just responding to the specific point you raised.

    @The Dangerman: I know this will ruin my coastal liberal cred, but I have been liking NASCAR more and more the past 10 years. I am actually disappointed that there is no race this weekend.

  56. 56.

    General Stuck

    Am I allowed to not like the Gang of Six plan?

    You can order anything you want, at Alice’s Restaurant

    Exceptin’ Alice, of course.

  58. 58.

    Martin

    We can get the other 4 trillion out of tort reform

    Actually, most of the other 4 trillion comes out of tax increases and not paying for debt. Bernie is blasting the plan along the lines of how the GOP sells the plan to their side. Remember, anything that closes marginal and effective tax rates is now called a spending cut. So if we take away your mortgage interest deduction, that’s not a tax increase, it’s a spending cut.

    That’s why the AMT goes away – it shouldn’t be needed any longer.

  61. 61.

    MattR

    @stuckinred: You haven’t seen the 27 8X10 glossy color photos with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining how each one would be used for evidence?

  62. 62.

    fasteddie9318

    Why is Michael Steele on my teevee in a capacity that doesn’t involve him trying to sell me a kitchen implement or piece of exercise equipment at 3 in the morning?

  63. 63.

    General Stuck

    Democratic officials are crowing over a string of recent polls showing public opinion rapidly shifting towards support for a debt ceiling increase.

    This is a big, sudden swing, regarding the controversy over the debt ceiling. Obama has turned the wingers designs back on them, and rallied public opinion to the truth. The wingnuts are now out on a limb, and can decide to stop this dangerous nonsense, or keep sawing, and pay the price politically. A last minute saving the day with Obama riding in on the Constitutional White Unicorn, would be icing on the cake. Would I lie to you? Don’t answer that.

  64. 64.

    Chris

    You know what? Fuck ‘em. They want a Civil War, let’s just cut to the chase and partition the country. We can probably break the country up pretty easily along college conference lines anyways.

    Oh, man. I can just imagine the South trying to stay afloat without that flood of federal money collected in New York and California, the one most of their states have been relying on since the 1930s and that allowed them to have things like electricity and highways.

    Tomorrow, we discuss secession. Twenty years from now, we discuss whether to build a fence on our southern border (the Potomac) to stem the flow of illegal immigrants running from economic disaster.

  65. 65.

    Triassic Sands

    @celticdragonchick:

    The fact that we are even talking about this convinces me our days as a great power are about finished.

    Like “peak oil,” “peak national greatness” can probably only be recognized after it has already passed. My guess is history will root the demise as occurring between 2001 and 2008, with 2001 and 2003 being prime contenders. However, 2004 may be the final winner, because that was the year the American voter re-elected the worst president ever.

  67. 67.

    stuckinred

    Mike Kay

    Did you see them showing the Turkey and Wild Turkey to Rachel last night?

  68. 68.

    Linda Featheringill

    @General Stuck:

    Constitutional White Unicorn:

    The constitutional option is beginning to look good to me.

    I suspect there are some eager beavers at the WH preparing a plan for doing that so that Obama will have that option, should it prove necessary. He does like to plan ahead.

  69. 69.

    gene108

    We can probably break the country up pretty easily along college conference lines anyways.

    Not after the recent realignment of the Big 10 and PAC 12 and whatever the Big 12 will call itself, sans whatever teams left the conference.

    Plus Big East Basketball and Big East Football don’t include the same teams.

    I think the era of regional conferences is slowly slipping by the wayside.

  70. 70.

    Chris

    I’m still waiting for the Saudis or someone else in the Middle East to say “US dollars are too risky what with all the craziness going on there – for the future you need to start buying your oil with renminbi”. Which would truly fuck us over but good.

    I wouldn’t be surprised. If this kind of crap keeps happening for long enough, something like that will happen. The rest of the world will not indefinitely stay tied to a ship whose crew looks hell bent on sinking it.

  72. 72.

    JC

    Even now – EVEN NOW – the press is still doing it’s ‘both sides are doing it’ routine.

    Example – this Michael Scherer piece.

    What’s he saying? “there is no one in America who is not disappointed in politics right now”.

    Weasel words – Rethugs are completely hypocritical and stupid right now, SO YES politics is disappointing – but it would be good if he which parties are mostly responsible.

  73. 73.

    fasteddie9318

    Actually, put another way: Do you think Mark Warner (chair) and Dick Durbin would sign off on a plan that would do this

    Durbin? No, but he’s 1/6 of the gang and probably under extraordinary pressure to get something done. I do think that the gang as constituted is made up of three right-wing Republicans, two men who would be Republicans if our political system weren’t so shifted to the right, and one moderate Democrat. It would be nice to have a real lefty on there somewhere.

  75. 75.

    gene108

    TCU is in the Big East

    I quit following all the teams that were jumping. I couldn’t keep up after Nebraska bolted to the Big Ten and would no longer be playing Oklahoma every year.

    In the 1980’s, when I was growing up, Sooner-Cornhusker game was always one of the biggest games of the year.

    I feel sad that it has totally gone away now.

  76. 76.

    CaptainFwiffo

    Has anything ever been accomplished by one of these Senate “Gangs”. As far as I can recall, they’ve got a 100% failure rate.

    Gang of Lucys.

  78. 78.

    joes527

    General Stuck

    The funny thing about that article is that it shared TPM’s front page with this.

    Amurican people: Fun is fun and all that, but seriously, don’t kill us all.

    Republican leadership: I’m sorry, as long as he remains black, our hands are tied.

  79. 79.

    celticdragonchick

    The constitutional option is beginning to look good to me.

    It will not be used. I really think that if the GOP foes a kamaikaze on the economy, Obama will let them, and we will all learn to live with the Road Warrior aftermath.

  80. 80.

    Martin

    Am I allowed to not like the Gang of Six plan?

    My daughter constantly tells me what foods she doesn’t like. Turns out that 99% of the time its stuff she’s never even tried or smelled. She doesn’t like the notion of it, or its name, or her friend says she doesn’t like it, or some other meaningless bullshit. So I established a little rule – she can only say she doesn’t like foods that she’s at least smelled, otherwise she can only claim she doesn’t like the sound of it, or something like that. See, that way I can tell the difference between when it’s a legitimate complaint or when she’s just too lazy/afraid to discover if she likes it or not.

    We need a rule like that. It’s quite apparent that Pat and Culture of Truth have never read or understood the Gang of 6 Plan. They might as well be saying that they don’t think the debt ceiling should be increased, or that gays getting married seems icky to them, or how the fuck did these bones get in the ground if God didn’t stick them there! If we’re going to blast low-information voters 24/7 here, then we shouldn’t fucking be low-information voters ourselves.

    [inhales]

    So, back to your question. Sure, of course you can not like the gang of 6 plan, but you need to know what it is first and understand it, and I don’t think many people here do. I like parts of it a great deal, am very conflicted about other parts of it, and dislike yet other parts. Overall, I don’t know. I’m not sold. But I can’t determine if it’s a good proposal or not if I’m stuck in nonstop pants shitting mode. And that’s probably my single biggest beef with the left – they can’t fucking calm down long enough to actually understand half the stuff they’re going hyperbolic over.

  81. 81.

    Meredith

    My financial adviser called me this morning to set up an appointment to talk about what to do “before the republicans tank the economy.” At least my Social Security check came.

  83. 83.

    freelancer

    I think the era of regional conferences is slowly slipping by the wayside.

    From your lips to FSM’s noodly ears. The conferences and their commissioners are the biggest obstacle to replacing the BCS with a tournament.

  84. 84.

    Ruckus

    Just got a draft Ryan email.

    Now that I’ve cleaned up the puke, I sent them a strongly worded reply. Something about not wasting good urine if he caught fire.

    Violet
    Trying to explain how the Tea Party holds the GOP hostage because they might get primaried is the truth, but sounds incredibly ridiculous to anyone who doesn’t live here.
    It sounds ridiculous here also. Except that many most conservatives hold similar values, it’s just that they are just a little crazy not batshit crazy.

  86. 86.

    joes527

    celticdragonchick

    Oh that’s just fucking great. I don’t have so much as a leather jacket, much less leather pants. And there is no way my hair will stay in a Mohawk.

    I am NOT ready for this.

  87. 87.

    Rick Taylor

    The sad thing is the fictional Republicans in the Onion are more reasonable than the one we have in real life. If it were realistic, it would say, Republicans are adamantly opposed to preventing the country from descending to economic meltdown, but signaled they might be willing to compromise, in return for crippling spending cuts. When asked what concessions they’d give in return, they responded that preventing the country from descending to economic meltdown was compromise enough, as they were deeply opposed to it on an existential level.

  88. 88.

    WaterGirl

    Meredith:

    My financial adviser called me this morning to set up an appointment to talk about what to do “before the republicans tank the economy.”

    For real? I am speechless. (At least she blamed it on the republicans.)

  89. 89.

    Steve

    I get a kick out of the folks like Martin and General Stuck who are basically calling Bernie Sanders a low-information voter and a firebagger.

  90. 90.

    Culture of Truth

    Martin,

    Excuse me, I made no comment on the plan except, in response to a question, to add a clip from a news report that it does, in fact include defense cuts as well from something from Agriculture.

    They might as well be saying that they don’t think the debt ceiling should be raised

    oh baloney

  91. 91.

    WaterGirl

    @ Southern Beale

    At least Palin has pretty good proof that her kids don’t use birth control. She has to get some points for that with the Teabaggers, even if her kids haven’t mastered the whole abstinence thing.

  93. 93.

    General Stuck

    Republican leadership: I’m sorry, as long as he remains black, our hands are tied.

    It should be obvious by now, that the true believers in the House of Reps, are all in. They can prevent about anything from getting passed in the House, that raises the limit short of their unreasonable demands, but they can’t stop a clean bill or a progressive approved bill from getting passed with dem votes. And the Senate will go along with about anything, to prevent a default.

    I think they are crazy, and John Boehner is a coward and not willing to sacrifice his position passing an increase to the debt limit with dem votes.

    So that leaves stalemate, and puts the onus on Obama, to either invoke the Constitutional Option, all of it, to include borrowing to pay for previously mandated spending, or honoring the wingers intransigence, and paying for shit piecemeal. Either way, dems win politically, now that the public is clued in to what is happening, but I think Obama will do the CO as a last option for a couple of reasons. One is not doing so would destroy what economic recovery there is, and would be a lasting blow to the US of A, in all sorts of seen and unforeseen ways, and forces him to choose who gets funded, and who doesn’t. It would be a disaster, and I suspect, even though the public is on our side now, they would expect Obama as president, to do what is necessary to make it right, and he would get blamed for it.

  95. 95.

    Culture of Truth

    criminy, you make a joke about tort reform and it’s pants shitting OMG you think jesus-rode-a-dinosaur mode!!1!1!

    Take a deep breath – I too like some parts of the plan, and not others. Sorry if that wasn’t crystal clear.

  96. 96.

    General Stuck

    I get a kick out of the folks like Martin and General Stuck who are basically calling Bernie Sanders a low-information voter and a firebagger.

    you need to explain this, as I have no idea what you are talking about.

  97. 97.

    Rick Taylor

    I’m repeating myself, but watching the descent of the Republican party into madness over the past decade has been stunning. People say they’ve always been like this, but I can’t imagine the Republican party under Nixon or Reagan or the elder Bush or even Bush the younger willfully setting out to destroy the world economy, if the congress doesn’t pass a constitutional amendment to their liking.

  98. 98.

    OzoneR

    Even now – EVEN NOW – the press is still doing it’s ‘both sides are doing it’ routine.

    Which is why you don’t have to like the Gang of Six plan, but you have to realize that may just be the best you’re gonna get.

    The powers that be don’t think the Gang of Six plan is enough of a compromise for our side

  99. 99.

    Quiddity

    @steve:

    You don’t understand. General Stuck loves chained-CPI being applied to Social Security recipients (currently getting, on average, a humongus $14K, so they can afford to sacrifice for the nation’s deficit problem – oh wait, Social Security isn’t part of the deficit. Never mind.).

    Why, you ask? It’s because Obama has embraced that element in the Gang of Six proposal, and anything Obama does is peachy keen.

  100. 100.

    OzoneR

    I can’t imagine the Republican party under Nixon or Reagan or the elder Bush or even Bush the younger willfully setting out to destroy the world economy, if the congress doesn’t pass a constitutional amendment to their liking.

    Which is why you cannot compare Obama to any other Democratic President. He can’t be FDR or LBJ, because FDR and LBJ wouldn’t be FDR and LBJ if they had to deal with this opposition party.

  101. 101.

    joes527

    General Stuck

    They can prevent about anything from getting passed in the House, that raises the limit short of their unreasonable demands, but they can’t stop a clean bill or a progressive approved bill from getting passed with dem votes.

    If I could parse this I’d tell you whether you are right or wrong.

  102. 102.

    Steve

    you need to explain this, as I have no idea what you are talking about.

    Someone quoted Bernie Sanders on the Gang of Six plan and you were like “LOLZ CITE??” as if Bernie is some clueless BJ commentor.

  103. 103.

    evinfuilt

    @86

    No wonder the wedding had such little planning involved. 2 months my arse! That was a shotgun wedding.

  104. 104.

    Martin

    I get a kick out of the folks like Martin and General Stuck who are basically calling Bernie Sanders a low-information voter and a firebagger.

    Well, he’s either of two things:

    1) Flat out wrong about how this proposal should be viewed by the left.
    2) Helping everyone out by presenting it strictly along terms to make it most appealing to the GOP. If they’re opposed to the plan because Obama ’embraced’ it, they should be giving it a second look because Sanders went ballistic over it.
    3) Opposed to the bill for some or another other reasons and wants to paint it in the worst possible terms in order to kill it.

    My vote is on #2 because Bernie usually knows his stuff, and typically doesn’t flat-out try and shiv bipartisan plans like that. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t fall for the ploy. Yeah, I’m saying Sanders is playing 11 dimensional chess. Well, maybe 3 dimensional.

  105. 105.

    General Stuck

    You don’t understand. General Stuck loves chained-CPI being applied to Social Security recipients (currently getting, on average, a humongus $14K)

    unpossible, due to containment of math and my allergy to math. I have read where it is a progressive based proposal, meaning it will help the poorest of seniors, but I have no idea how.

    I like Bernie Sanders, for no other reason than he supported the ACA, and can rock and roll with the best of em’

  106. 106.

    Quiddity

    @steve: When you wrote about “some clueless BJ commentor”, did you have a particular person in mind?

  107. 107.

    Martin

    I too like some parts of the plan, and not others. Sorry if that wasn’t crystal clear.

    It wasn’t. Thanks for the clarification. Sorry about the meltdown.

  108. 108.

    jl

    My personal opinion is that there will be immense pressures to reverse most of spending cuts in any debt or deficit reduction plan, starting as soon as the debt ceiling is raised (assuming that it is raised in time to prevent a real crisis). Since the long term structural deficit is not a problem right now, and won’t be for quite a few years, the cost of getting rid of the spending reductions in terms of real economic effects in the next few years is zero, I expect them to be stealthily repealed, or bypassed.

    The most important issue then is that unwise or unnecessary cuts to social security be as easily reversed as possible. The Gang of Six plan seems best to me on that score. I haven’t had time to look at Medicare or Medicaid proposals, though.

    Other than that, it is all nasty cynical political BS, even worse than portrayed in the Onion article.

  109. 109.

    General Stuck

    Someone quoted Bernie Sanders on the Gang of Six plan and you were like “LOLZ CITE??” as if Bernie is some clueless BJ commentor.

    No, moron, as if I didn’t know where it came from and was asking for a link. I can’t read peoples minds, and unfortunately, don’t know quite everything, yet.

  110. 110.

    DBrown

    Salon explained part of what the gang of six are calling a 1.5 trillion dollar tax cut and how at the same time they get $1 trillion in revenue – get this, closing the AMT loop hole and like magic, this is called a $1 trillion dollar revenue increase (but not a tax iincrease because it is closing a loop hole)but then they call this also a tax CUT and with a little accounting it becomes a $1.5 trillion dollar tax cut simutaniously! Wow, talk about amazing magic. You can be sure other magic ponies will get a few trillion more cuts by way of SS and medicare.

  111. 111.

    General Stuck

    If I could parse this I’d tell you whether you are right or wrong.

    It’s fairly deep, but if you write it down and put it under your pillow, by morning osmosis and the truth fairy will make it clear.

    No late night Pizza though.

  112. 112.

    Martin

    General Stuck loves chained-CPI being applied to Social Security recipients (currently getting, on average, a humongus $14K, so they can afford to sacrifice for the nation’s deficit problem – oh wait, Social Security isn’t part of the deficit. Never mind.).

    Well, the deal is that C-CPI would get applied government-wide, which would include SS as a result (deferred 5 years and then phased in over another 5). And you’re right, that isn’t part of the deficit.

    But tax brackets and deduction caps are part of the deficit, and those would go up more slowly. So if C-CPI would be a massive cut to SS, then it should be a double massive increase to tax receipts by pushing people faster into higher brackets and maxing them out on deductions sooner. And that does help the deficit. It’s another one of those secret tax increases that the GOP will claim isn’t a tax increase, but really is a tax increase.

  113. 113.

    jl

    @100 Stuck: Ha! You admitted you don’t know everything. Equals total loss of cred among us vicious hyena BJ commenters. I hear bookmarks clicking as I type.

  114. 114.

    Sentient Puddle

    Y’know, the mechanism used to get a net revenue increase out of the tax plan presented shouldn’t be that difficult to grasp, but evidently it needs to be explained further because some of you aren’t getting it. The plan calls for eliminating most of the deductions, which is where all the extra revenue comes from despite lowering the marginal rates.

    You are free to think that the plan is stupid, unworkable, unrealistic (I fall into this camp), or otherwise bad policy. But it’s not Laffer curve nonsense, and to act like it is just makes you look like a fool.

  116. 116.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stuck:

    No, not weep, make a fucking decision and realize we are in a war of sorts, and the only real enemy is republicans

    Make a decision, that you are going to oppose people like Glen Greenwald, Jane Hamsher, and Adam Green,

    This cognitive dissonance kinda underscores why you were a Republican for so many years.

  117. 117.

    Linda Featheringill

    @joes527:

    Oh that’s just fucking great. I don’t have so much as a leather jacket, much less leather pants. And there is no way my hair will stay in a Mohawk.

    LOL, when I finally got it. What can I say? It’s hot and I’m wilted.

    But I don’t want to live in that world.

  118. 118.

    Martin

    @DBrown:

    Pretty close. The proposal cuts nominal taxes like the AMT, so they take credit for eliminating those revenues as ‘tax cuts’. At the same time, the proposal eliminates deductions that have been allowing taxpayers to not pay the nominal rates, or to get dumped into the AMT pool. Now, we’d call that a tax increase, because it increases taxes collected, but the GOP is calling that a ‘spending cut’ because in order to sell it to Grover, they’re pretending that everyone actually pays the nominal rate and then the government remits the deduction as ‘spending’. So by getting rid of the deduction, they’re also cutting spending!

    The spending that they’re cutting in a fair bit of this deal is the amount of tax revenue not collected due to mortgage interest deductions and the like. So long as that doesn’t land on the middle and lower class, it’s a good deal. Who fucking cares if the rich pay 35% in taxes with 12% going back to them in deductions or they pay 28% in taxes with 0% going back to them in deductions? In the latter case, we end up with 20% more tax revenue, the GOP takes credit for a 7% drop in the top marginal rate and a 12% drop in spending. That’s how we get out of this mess.

  119. 119.

    General Stuck

    This cognitive dissonance kinda underscores why you were a Republican for so many years.

    You are too stupid to live, fuckhead. And even more dishonest. There is no cognitive dissonance, except the eternal projection you make about your own self, relative to being a republican, when habitually accusing others of it.

    I used to think you were just trolling us with the libtard dogma, day in and out. But now I think you are just fucking crazy.

    This thread has to have the lamest attack insults I have ever experienced on BJ. You dipshits signify the decline of clever nonsense, this blog has been infamous for. Step up yer game.

  121. 121.

    aisce

    @ steve

    I get a kick out of the folks like Martin and General Stuck who are basically calling Bernie Sanders a low-information voter and a firebagger.

    bernie sanders is not a very serious person.

    not like our martin. did you know he read all five pages of contentless talking points that were released publicly by the gang of six? he’s a motherfuckin’ expert on those five memo pages.

    he also can tell you how many angels can dance on a head of a pin. just in case you’re interested.

  122. 122.

    jl

    @113 I like that kind of sleight of hand in Gang of Six plan. It might work after the symbolic House votes are finished this week. And so much of it is difficult to follow, and can be reversed by obscure votes on obscure issues, that its provisions that prove to be real mistakes can be more easily reversed.

    The chain weighting stuff is nice because it makes very minor change in the near future. The compounded difference from year to year between a fixed market basket and moving market basket only make a big difference after several years, and changes can be made when sanity returns, or political convenience permits.

    The moving market basket in the chained series is a better one to use, if when the new market basket is created each year, the substitution effects of changing quality and new products, and other factors, can be separated from income effects.

    So, whether the chained index is really designed correctly to do the best adjustment, or is just a way to hide straight out benefit cuts will be hidden way down in the technical details of the construction of the market basket, and the algorithm for how it should change each year. So, the thing is liable to manipulation, IMO.

    But I prefer fighting on those grounds, and for a lot of issues, that is where the Gang of Six plan does its work.

  123. 123.

    Berial

    Martin @119
    So you are saying that we get out of this mess by letting the Republicans define what things mean and basically lie to the country? Sounds like the status quo to me.

  124. 124.

    joes527

    General Stuck

    You are too stupid to live, fuckhead.

    This thread has to have the lamest attack insults I have ever experienced on BJ

    OK. You gotta admit. You walked right into that one.

  125. 125.

    General Stuck

    OK. You gotta admit. You walked right into that one.

    If I could parse this, I would tell you if you are right or wrong. But will say, I can’t be on for every comment or quip. It’s hard work, you know, really hard work.

  126. 126.

    datarat

    To those espousing the ‘constitutional option’…

    Can you please share whatever it is you’re smoking?

    There is no way Obama invokes your sparkle pony option. Everything he’s done to this point puts the ball squarely back in the GOP court, and the public is starting to wake up to the fact that the crazy wing of the GOP is holding the country hostage. Usurping congressional power is a sure-fire way to mess that plan up…not to mention tie up Congress until 2012 with impeachment hearings. Tell me the Teatards couldn’t find a way to take this all the way to the 2012 elections…

  127. 127.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stuck:

    I used to think you were just trolling us with the libtard dogma, day in and out. But now I think you are just fucking crazy.

    So now it’s “libtards” (Republican derogatory, BTW) that are the real enemy?

  128. 128.

    freelancer

    Okeedoke, not that I was reading it, but the book chat thread upstairs went and R-U-N-N-O-F-T. ?!

  129. 129.

    General Stuck

    To those espousing the ‘constitutional option’..

    It would be a last resort, if the wingers took this to the edge of default. Obama and dems are winning the issue now, but not if the bottom falls out of the economy. The president will get blamed for that, no matter what the public thinks now about the wingers creating the overall crises.

  130. 130.

    OzoneR

    So you are saying that we get out of this mess by letting the Republicans define what things mean and basically lie to the country?

    what letting? They already did.

  131. 131.

    Corner Stone

    he [Martin] also can tell you how many angels can dance on a head of a pin. just in case you’re interested.

    Martin? I for one find it less than helpful you haven’t yet shared the answer to this eternal philosophical puzzler.
    Although I have to admit, by this point I can’t imagine anything you know that you haven’t told us.

  132. 132.

    joes527

    It’s hard work, you know, really hard work.

    I wouldn’t know about such things. I’m just sitting here refreshing the page to see if there are any more Snorg Tees girls.

  133. 133.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @aisce:

    he also can tell you how many angels can dance on a head of a pin. just in case you’re interested.

    lolz

    I’m pretty sure he’s less interested in how many angels can actually dance on the head of a pin than how many angels Republicans say can dance on the head of a pin.

  134. 134.

    RalfW

    Brian Williams is very seriously introducing the Debt Limit now, on NBC Nightly “News.”

    Ohh, perky reporter says Repubs are working on a backup plan in case their current -tax plan- jihad fails.

    Hey! British Petroleum had a backup plan, too! I feel great relief!

  135. 135.

    harlana, formerly, chicken little

    chicken little over here saying, nah gah happun

    this absurd, horrific drama, however, will play itself out in excruciating media detail with absurd and grotesque characters, to torment the souls of the people who depend on government assistance, and the poor middle class slobs just trying to stay employed and survive, as long as it possibly can. the republicans demand it. just a disgusting display.

  136. 136.

    Dennis SGMM

    scroll up…scroll up…scroll up…scroll up…

    Whew, I thought for a minute that this was an ABL thread.

  137. 137.

    General Stuck

    So now it’s “libtards” (Republican derogatory, BTW) that are the real enemy?

    No, fuckhead. The real enemy, along with the declared republicans, is your full frontal stupidity that creates the dogmatic ratfuckery masquerading as true liberalism, whether purposeful, or not . And others like you.

  138. 138.

    jl

    @135 Falfw: As long as it doesn’t involve lots of gunpowder in the basement of Parliament, the GOP can work on a backup plan more ideas for sabotage if they want. Fine with me.

  139. 139.

    aisce

    @ corner stone

    are you and general stuck the same person? that was entirely incoherent.

  140. 140.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stuck:

    No, fuckhead. The real enemy, along with the declared republicans, is your full frontal stupidity that creates the dogmatic ratfuckery masquerading as true liberalism, whether purposeful, or not . And others like you.

    Awesome, so now a former Bush voter is the repository of “true liberalism”?

  142. 142.

    harlana, formerly, chicken little

    perky reporter says Repubs are working on a backup plan in case their current tax plan jihad fails.

    Would this be Plan C?

  144. 144.

    Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)

    bernie sanders is not a very serious person.

    he isn’t. Even the liberal howard Dean says so. Howard is on record saying, he has never voted for bernie.

    Like Weiner, bernie is yet another big mouth from brooklyn who likes to hear his voice but has no legislative bills to his name. In contrast, Ted Kennedy passed over 1000 bills in his 46 years in office. Bernie has been in office 20 years and he’s passed 1 bill.

  145. 145.

    General Stuck

    Awesome, so now a former Bush voter is the repository of “true liberalism”?

    YOU are the one espousing “true liberalism” fuckhead. When are going to learn to read, or read honestly what people say. The rest of us are just trying to slog along and get the best result from the meat grinder that is American politics and law making and isn’t true anything, other than maybe true democracy.

    And your reaching back twenty years to who I voted for in one election is a fine example of the ugly brainless purity you chuck out, from not having enough brainpower to actually engage on issues and politics in a coherent manner. It is sad, and you aren’t even that funny anymore.

  146. 146.

    Bender

    If we’re going to blast low-information voters 24/7 here, then we shouldn’t fucking be low-information voters ourselves.

    Well, Ball-Juicers are reading The Onion and watching The Daily Show. That provides them all the “information” they need that fits their very narrow worldview.

  147. 147.

    JPL

    Can we please have an open thread for those among us who have not read the bill before congres.. Oh yeah, there is no bill before congres from the gang of sixx. Oh yeah, we know the President didn’t read it yet as of yesterday because he told us he did not..

    Open thread please… Do it for Tunch

  148. 148.

    BO_Bill

    Hey, General Struck, our Teabagger group is always looking for new members. Our women are better looking than progressive women. And, although our parties are pretty lame compared with Progressives (check out timestamp 3:35), they are still pretty fun. We have barbeques.

  149. 149.

    joes527

    General Stuck

    It took a bit of digging, but I got you some help.

    OK. You gotta admit. You walked right into that one.

    (ROOT
    (INTJ (UH OK) (. .)))

    (ROOT
    (S
    (NP (PRP You))
    (ADVP (RB gotta))
    (VP (VBP admit))
    (. .)))

    (ROOT
    (S
    (NP (PRP You))
    (VP (VBD walked)
    (ADVP (RB right))
    (PP (IN into)
    (NP (DT that) (NN one))))
    (. .)))

  150. 150.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stuck:

    YOU are the one espousing “true liberalism” fuckhead.

    Not at all, I’m center left. Which really puts a spotlight on all you centrists claiming the mantle of the left. You are, in fact, moderate Republicans- who have, in actuality, voted for Republicans and their agenda.

    Now, I’ve no problem with you being moderate Republicans. Just say you are and stop pretending to be Democrats in an effort to marginalize the left. Everything you take for granted in life came from the left.

  151. 151.

    Linda Featheringill

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    Everything you take for granted in life came from the left.

    Well, “everything” is a big word. But aside from that, I must say that much of the stuff we enjoy as living in a “civilized” world is the result of a lot of pushing and shoving by folks most people wouldn’t invite into their homes.

  152. 152.

    General Stuck

    Not at all, I’m center left.

    You are a political psychopath, those don’t come in marked packages.

    edit – and I’m not a democrat, but a registered independent, that like Bernie Sanders, caucuses with the democrats, for the time being.

  153. 153.

    JPL

    I’m curious..who read the gang of six proposal..

    Open thread please ..do it for Lily..

  154. 154.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stuck:

    edit – and I’m not a democrat, but a registered independent, that like Bernie Sanders, caucuses with the democrats, for the time being.

    Center right?

  155. 155.

    aisce

    @ mike kay

    i just want to say that you are easily my favorite poster on this site. just a superb troll. like a shark really, always swimming forward, doing whatever you need to do to keep things going.

    paying homage to ted kennedy there was inspired. keep up the good work.

  156. 156.

    General Stuck

    Center right?

    Pragmatic Liberal, the same as our president.

    Now say something whacko, again.

  158. 158.

    aisce

    @ just some fuckhead

    I didn’t quite get it either, FWIW.

    i guess he’s just calling me stupid. or perhaps, loudly stupid. bit weaksauce, really.

    i’ve never noticed him to come to the likes of martin’s defense before. whatever.

  159. 159.

    General Stuck

    Just Some Fuckhead

    And why are you on the internet around the clock, when you have a family that sounds like it is having a hard time of it. And here you are, reading every comment on every thread, exchanging insults with some blowhard called Gen Stuck, like some clueless jackass trying to escape reality, or something.

  160. 160.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @aisce:

    i guess he’s just calling me stupid. or perhaps, loudly stupid. bit weaksauce, really.

    Nah, prolly a shot at Martin.

  162. 162.

    General Stuck

    So you think the president is as far right as you?

    LOL. Lame, even for you. Go hug your kids fuckhead, and stop writing stupid comments on the internet.

  163. 163.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stuck:

    And why are you on the internet around the clock, when you have a family that sounds like it is having a hard time of it. And here you are, reading every comment on every thread, exchanging insults with some blowhard called Gen Stuck, like some clueless jackass trying to escape reality, or something.

    You don’t have to worry about us. We’re independently wealthy, like the President.

  164. 164.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stuck:

    LOL. Lame, even for you. Go hug your kids fuckhead, and stop writing stupid comments on the internet.

    Is that the death rattle of the “Independent” Republican conceding the argument?

  165. 165.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    Related question: Are any of the Obots actual in-the-trench Democrats?

  166. 166.

    JPL

    I’m curious..who read the gang of six proposal..

    Open thread please. Do it for Rosie

  168. 168.

    General Stuck

    Is that the death rattle of the “Independent” Republican conceding the argument?

    There is no argument. I know who I am and what I believe. I had that argument with myself a long time ago, and won it. It just doesn’t matter what you think.

    Do you have any idea how stupid you sound with this purity inquisition you bring to BJ? I thought not. Go troll someone else, you know I’ve seen your clown act many many times. Yawn.

  169. 169.

    joes527

    I usually have javascript turned off. It is amazing what I miss around here. I can date a Russian beauty.

    Who knew?

  170. 170.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stuck:

    There is no argument. I know who I am and what I believe. I had that argument with myself a long time ago, and won it.

    lolz

    Do you have any idea how stupid you sound with this purity inquisition you bring to BJ? I thought not.

    There’s no inquisition here. I’m just pointing out that you folks that keep bashing on the left are, in fact, Republicans.

  171. 171.

    eemom

    wow, fuckie is being virtually Socratic on this thread.

    Careful General — there is no telling what devastating admissions his razor-sharp interrogatives might extract from you.

  173. 173.

    General Stuck

    Okay Obots, Fuckhead wants to see your papers to prove yer trenching with the democrats. Form a line over there.

  174. 174.

    TK-421

    I just read Benen’s piece on the GOP Suicide Squad, and hooooooooly schnikes I don’t see how this gets resolved in 13 days.

    And because this is the thread to be depressed in, let’s also note there has been ZERO rhetoric (AFAIK) from Dems or President Obama about a Clean Vote or a “straight upperdown vote” or anything other than “we’re still working on it.” Seriously you fuckheads, your Grand Bargain dreams dissolved awhile ago, it’s now time to hit the OMG TOO PARTISAN WHAT WILL THE VILLAGERS THINK? Panic Button and start screaming at the rooftops and raising holy hell FUD with seniors, soldiers, and defense contractors.

    Benen closes bitterly:

    So, where does that leave us? The House won’t pass a clean bill; it won’t pass a Grand Bargain; it won’t pass the Gang of Six proposal; and at least 80 House Republicans are prepared to try to kill the Plan B compromise…at this point, if you’re not nervous, you’re not paying attention.

    It’s one thing to fear the worst, it’s quite another to watch it happen in slow motion. Thanks for burning the house down, Teatards and Villagers.

  175. 175.

    General Stuck

    I’m just pointing out that you folks that keep bashing on the left are, in fact, Republicans.

    And yer doing a smashup job there Colonel Klink. I have confidence you will root out the unfaithful. rolls eyes.

  176. 176.

    Corner Stone

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I’m just pointing out that you folks that keep bashing on the left are, in fact, Republicans.

    This was the point I made to Cole on a thread yesterday, and he quite quickly turned it into a defense by stating all the FP’ers except him are long time Democrats.

  177. 177.

    General Stuck

    And now that Robin has arrived in the Batmobile, the impure can be weeded out in double time.

    This blog is a riot.

  178. 178.

    Corner Stone

    @drew42:

    “The GOP’s gleeful insistence on skull-fucking the U.S. economy appears to have raised a few eyebrows.
    __
    Let’s hope cooler heads prevail.”
    __
    – a typical Steven Benen post.

    Keep up this Benen bashing and you are going to sorely disappoint FlipYrWhig something fierce.

  179. 179.

    joes527

    TK-421

    Don’t worry, be happy.

    The chamber of commerce will save us. (It must be true. I read it at Balloon Juice.)

  180. 180.

    TK-421

    The real enemy, along with the declared republicans, is your full frontal stupidity that creates the dogmatic ratfuckery masquerading as true liberalism, whether purposeful, or not . And others like you.

    We must purge the purity trolls, for then we will be pure.

    Well, that was fun.

  181. 181.

    jwb

    TK-421: I’m still feel pretty secure with my bet that nothing will pass by Aug 2. I don’t think Stuck is right that Obama will simply say the debt ceiling is unconstitutional and proceed as if nothing happened, but I’m fairly certain that Obama’s got a plan to keep from defaulting. It will be extremely painful, however, I feel pretty sure about that.

  182. 182.

    Keep rolling your eyes like that they'll get stuck

    Just Some Fuckhead – July 20, 2011 | 7:21 pm · Link

    @aisce:

    i guess he’s just calling me stupid. or perhaps, loudly stupid. bit weaksauce, really.

    Nah, prolly a shot at Martin.

    Ya think? Maybe the fact that he, y’know, addressed the comment directly to Martin might mean he was, I dunno, taking a shot at Martin? You people really need to read more carefully before flaming each other and getting all butthurt. Sheesh.

  183. 183.

    Uncle Clarence Thomas

    .
    .
    @171 Just Some Fuckhead
    @177 Corner Stone

    Balloonbaggers adhere to no coherent political or social belief system. They are simply selfish and spoiled Americans who seek to make a cult of personality (“winnerism”) a feel-good gesture, just as they seek to make everything else in their lives a winning, feel-good gesture. “So much win.”

    However, it must be said that they are not history’s greatest monsters.
    .
    .

  184. 184.

    General Stuck

    We must purge the purity trolls, for then we will be pure.

    Nah, but regular spankings are reasonable.

  186. 186.

    OzoneR

    there has been ZERO rhetoric (AFAIK) from Dems or President Obama about a Clean Vote or a “straight upperdown vote” or anything other than “we’re still working on it.”

    they did that months ago and it failed

    it’s now time to hit the OMG TOO PARTISAN WHAT WILL THE VILLAGERS THINK? Panic Button and start screaming at the rooftops and raising holy hell FUD with seniors, soldiers, and defense contractors.

    Did you not hear the President repeatedly say default means no SS checks and no military pay, because the conservatives definitely did, my Facebook wall is full of comments about how Obama is going to no pay the soldiers and leave old people to die unless he gets his debt ceiling raise.

    Seriously guys, it’s not that you criticize Obama that riles us up, it’s that you do so unfairly and you criticize him for not doing things that he actually did do.

  187. 187.

    Rick Taylor

    I just read Benen’s piece on the GOP Suicide Squad, and hooooooooly schnikes I don’t see how this gets resolved in 13 days.

    __
    At this point I’m reduced to hoping that the President uses whatever legal devices he can to ignore the debt ceiling, and that the market doesn’t react to our little constitutional crises complete with impeachment hearings too badly. Maybe it will actually cause some Republicans to question their party affiliation when they see the Republicans actively trying to impeach the President as he works to save the country from the crises they’ve initiated.

  188. 188.

    WaterGirl

    I have started a half dozen comments at various points along the way on this thread and ended up deleting each one before posting. So I guess I’ll just say this.

    It’s starting to look like the Republicans are willing to burn down the country, and that makes me pretty uncomfortable.

    But there is no one I would rather have on the side of the good guys, representing the good guys, than Barack Obama. Right now he’s pushing a combination of politics and what he thinks is good policy. If push comes to shove, he will do what’s best for the country, politics be damned. Even if that would make it likely that he would not be re-elected.

    That’s the difference between Barack Obama and most of the rest of them. He truly is a statesman, not just a politician.

    When you have David Plouffle by Obama’s side, it’s even better. For whatever reason, David Plouffe helps keep Obama’s powder dry, no matter how crazy it gets.

    This politically-motivated republican-created situation is truly a crisis for our republic, and it has me on edge.

    In the end, though, I think the republic will still be standing, and the market will not have completely crashed, and we will be looking at a new post from Cole with the “Chill the Fuck Out, I’ve Got This! graphic of our president.

  189. 189.

    Mike Kay (Democrat of the Century)

    Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!

    Right now on Lawrence O’Donnell: House shoots down GangO’6 scheme.

    Told you so.

  190. 190.

    Peter

    My biggest worry here is that the best and frankly most realistic way of solving this (a clean bill passed with Dem support) requires John Boehner to sacriice his speakership for the good of the country. I’m just not sure it’s in him to do the right thing.

  191. 191.

    General Stuck

    but I’m fairly certain that Obama’s got a plan to keep from defaulting

    This is illogical, unless you know something I don’t about what will begin to happen on Aug 2. I don’t see any plan to keep from defaulting that doesn’t include a passed vote to raise the ceiling. And any plan for Obama to keep from defaulting will have to include either paying all our interest and selecting what programs get paid for absent borrowing, because we can no longer borrow to keep all the government running like before, according to the debt ceiling law.

    I doubt just that will satisfy the world finance community, or ratings agencies, without Obama borrowing money and by that action defy the debt ceiling law. And if he does that, he better have some good argument for it, and the only one I know of is the constitutional one.

  192. 192.

    Corner Stone

    @jwb:

    Corner Stone is a Democrat in Texas, so until the demographics rebound in the state, purity comes very easy.

    I’m not sure how you mean this?

  193. 193.

    El Cid

    There comes a point at which satirists have a difficult time because reality is so parodical in and of itself.

    Even within the most short term measure, we reached that stage in the Bush Jr. regime triumvirate.

    Now the Onion can just rewrite actual news events with language not too different than that used by the actual modern right and its political leadership.

  194. 194.

    Peter

    That being said, I’m pretty sure this is all just posturing on the part of the GOP, and that they’ll cave before the deadline.

  195. 195.

    OzoneR

    My biggest worry here is that the best and frankly most realistic way of solving this (a clean bill passed with Dem support) requires John Boehner to sacriice his speakership for the good of the country. I’m just not sure it’s in him to do the right thing.

    Moot, he’s not going to find 23 votes in his caucus, nor is the Senate going to find 60 votes, for a clean debt ceiling increase. Not going to happen.

  197. 197.

    harlana

    most realistic way of solving this (a clean bill passed with Dem support) requires John Boehner to sacriice his speakership for the good of the country. I’m just not sure it’s in him to do the right thing.

    Boehner looks tired. I dunno, maybe he’s always looked that way and now I’m just seeing him too much.

  198. 198.

    WaterGirl

    JWB & General Stuck,

    I’m fairly certain that Obama’s got a plan to keep from defaulting. It will be extremely painful, however, I feel pretty sure about that.

    I have no idea what the plan would look like, but I agree with this statement. This is a time when we should all be very grateful that the constitutional scholar and the smartest man in the room is our president.

    I haven’t heard anything about the content of Obama’s two meetings today – with the democratic leaders and the republican idiots. But my gut feeling tells me that this was a come to Jesus meeting with the republicans and that Obama has now set a (private) hard deadline that he has shared with both parties.

    IMO, this is what the “we can extend things for a few days for the process to work as long as we have a serious agreement” pivot was about today.

    I have nothing to base this on, other than gut feeling, but I believe this deadline will be sometime before the end of the day on Friday.

    I think he also let them know today (again, just gut feeling) that he has a plan for what he will do after the hard deadline. I don’t believe he will have shared the plan, but I’m pretty sure he’s told them they are gonna like it a lot less than the options they have on the table now.

  199. 199.

    aisce

    @ mr. eye roller man

    ah, i see. he was speaking directly to martin using my post as a jumping off point, and not saying “martin?” as in he was surprised i was making fun of him. that would make more sense.

    i think the stuck-fuckhead slapfights knock a point or two off my iq every time i come here. those two just need to do it with each other already. maybe get eemom involved in a little threeway action…and i just threw up all over my computer. what’s the best way of cleaning puke out of a keyboard? anybody know?

  200. 200.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    i think the stuck-fuckhead slapfights knock a point or two off my iq every time i come here. those two just need to do it with each other already. maybe get eemom involved in a little threeway action…and i just threw up all over my computer. what’s the best way of cleaning puke out of a keyboard? anybody know?

    Lord knows I don’t like it any more than you do but he gets himself worked up over a coupla weeks until he’s absolutely unbearable and he needs to be slapped down hard so he skulks away for a little while. Repeat. It’s been going on for years now. No need to thank me.

  201. 201.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @harlana:

    Boehner looks tired. I dunno, maybe he’s always looked that way and now I’m just seeing him too much.

    Prolly forced to sober up.

  203. 203.

    Dennis SGMM

    A clean bill? The way things are, Obama can’t get a clean bill. The usual Democratic (asshole) Senators will demand their pound of flesh. And then there are the Republicans…

  204. 204.

    Peter

    @OzoneR: If Boehner seriously can’t scrounge up twenty-three votes from his caucus of 241, he’s already lost his Speakership and just hasn’t figured it out yet. As for the Senate, I’m skeptical on McConnell filibustering it.

    @Harlana: He does look trapped between a rock and a hard place righ now, and it shows pretty vividly on his face.

  205. 205.

    OzoneR

    If Boehner seriously can’t scrounge up twenty-three votes from his caucus of 241, he’s already lost his Speakership and just hasn’t figured it out yet. As for the Senate, I’m skeptical on McConnell filibustering it.

    Neither Boehner nor McConnell have any control of their caucus and Boehner will be out as Speaker in 2013 one way or another.

  208. 208.

    Davis X. Machina

    @OzoneR:

    If Boehner seriously can’t scrounge up twenty-three votes from his caucus of 241, he’s already lost his Speakership and just hasn’t figured it out yet

    Boehner’s lost his speakership if he does. No compromise with the Devil. Hello, Speaker Cantor.

    Every Robespierre his Danton.

  209. 209.

    Midnight Marauder

    There’s no inquisition here. I’m just pointing out that you folks that keep bashing on the left are, in fact, Republicans.

    Dumbest comment of the month.

    Easily.

  211. 211.

    Corner Stone

    @Midnight Marauder: If you’d like to make the argument that it’s not “100%” then that’s something you can go for. But if you want to try and make the argument that there isn’t a significant fucking chunk of former Republicans commenting here then I think you’ve got a problem.

  212. 212.

    FlipYrWhig

    I’ll lay my cards on the table for Just Some Fuckhead. I have been voting only since 1992 — wasn’t old enough in ’88 — and have voted for one Republican: Barbara Hafer for a statewide office in Pennsylvania, because she was running against Bob Casey, Jr., and I didn’t want to give the Casey family a toehold in government because of Casey _pere_’s pro-life views. I voted Nader in ’96 because I was disgruntled with Clinton’s weak-sauce pseudo-liberalism. I have rarely had money to contribute to candidates, but I gave to Dean, to Christine Gregoire in WA, and to Jim Webb in the primary against Harris Miller. I’ve subscribed to _The Nation_ religiously since 1997. I don’t volunteer for causes because people, even ones I pretty much like, annoy the living fuck out of me. I am not a Republican, have never been a Republican, have no patience with Republicans at any level, and have felt that way since I was the only kid supporting Mondale in social studies class in 1984.

    The idea that the only way to be on the left is to puff out your chest and declare everyone else a sellout has nothing to do with being a liberal or a Democrat. It has to do with sneering and self-congratulatory narcissism. I’ve been there. I grew the fuck up.

  214. 214.

    Midnight Marauder

    That’s high praise coming from you.

    If you’d like to make the argument that it’s not “100%” then that’s something you can go for. But if you want to try and make the argument that there isn’t a significant fucking chunk of former Republicans commenting here then I think you’ve got a problem.

    For starters, I think it’s a dumb fucking “issue” to begin with. If you’re trying to build an anti-Republican coalition for the 21st century, then it has to include former Republicans who came to their senses about the terrible policies they enabled over the years and who are willing to fight like hell to rectify the situation and assuage their deep rooted shame. The fact that this is a “thing” for some of you is straight up clownish.

    As far as the Professional Left crowd goes, this is pretty straightforward:

    I don’t want a bunch of ineffective motherfuckers who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about representing my position to the citizenry at large.

    Again, it’s a really straightforward thing to understand.

    /O-BOT…AWAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY!

  216. 216.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @Midnight Marauder:

    For starters, I think it’s a dumb fucking “issue” to begin with. If you’re trying to build an anti-Republican coalition for the 21st century, then it has to include former Republicans who came to their senses about the terrible policies they enabled over the years and who are willing to fight like hell to rectify the situation and assuage their deep rooted shame.

    Shame would be great. Sanctimony is what we’re getting.

  217. 217.

    Corner Stone

    @Midnight Marauder:

    For starters, I think it’s a dumb fucking “issue” to begin with. If you’re trying to build an anti-Republican coalition for the 21st century, then it has to include former Republicans who came to their senses about the terrible policies they enabled over the years and who are willing to fight like hell to rectify the situation and assuage their deep rooted shame. The fact that this is a “thing” for some of you is straight up clownish.

    You’re off your fucking rocker here.
    Firstly, these fucking lifelong Republicans haven’t come to their senses, they are embarrassed to admit who they were and what they’ve done. They’d vote R again in an instant when you turn your back on them.
    But the main problem is they deem themselves fit to lecture the rest of us about how to be “pragmatic” or “centrist” or whatever the keyword is this week to mask their essential conservatism.
    They aren’t holding their head in their hands for what they’ve wrought. They’re ashamed to be found out and are doing their best to mold their “new” party in their own image.
    If you want to make common cause with them, then go ahead. But don’t kid yourself, kid.

  219. 219.

    General Stuck

    Somebody flush the toilet, and be gone with this shit for brains thread. jeebus.

  220. 220.

    Corner Stone

    @Stillwater:

    Isn’t this just a variation of the ‘conservatism cannot fail’ theme?

    Meh. I just know these fucking cocksuckers won’t stop til they burn the Democratic Party so far to the right that it’s indistinguishable from where they’ve lived their entire political lives. They’re just looking for a new comfort zone.
    I mean, for fuck sake, we have people screaming at commenters here they should swallow a medical plan put forward by the Heritage Foundation, and a tax system setup by AEI !
    And anyone who says, “Hey, that’s not what I signed on for. What’s the deal?” Gets fucking savaged and called every easy tribal epithet under the sun.
    And unfortunately we have a number of people who don’t seem to remember the difference anymore, and we have FP’ers using Lawrence Fucking O’Donnel’s bad faith garbage to lecture people about the acceptable parameters of Democratic argument.
    Yeah Larry, you fucking hump, it’s true that some people actually did object back in 1983, and did strenuously object during the Clinton Administration.
    And fuck anyone who swallows L O’D’s bullshit now because it’s easy and fits a narrative they can try their damndest to push.

  221. 221.

    FlipYrWhig

    @ Stillwater: I was so pure I voted Nader in _’96_. To build the capacity of the Green Party. It’s not a bad idea if your objective is, narrowly, to work towards a populist-progressive third party. And if you’re 24 years old and in graduate school.

  222. 222.

    General Stuck

    And if you’re 24 years old and in graduate school.

    Why, you still are a young sprout MR Whig. And some wiser than your years.

  223. 223.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    @General Stupidity:

    Why, you still are a young sprout MR Whig. And some wiser than your years.

    Stuck, I know you imagine yourself to be some suave, cool mafia-don figure dispensing blessings to junior members of the obama nostra but in reality, it looks more like the school retard hugging all over everybody shamelessly.

  224. 224.

    General Stuck

    it looks more like the school retard hugging all over everybody shamelessly.

    The capacity for you to project your own syphilitic behavior onto anyone and everyone that passes by, is a farce of nature, fuckhead. Your incoherent babbling, and those of your pea brane posse, are truly a disease on this blog. Why don’t you go to hell, to see if is any vacancy.

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