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You are here: Home / Open Threads / The Grand Bargain

The Grand Bargain

by Tim F|  July 21, 20113:22 pm| 223 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, General Stupidity

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Oh hell no.

A Congressional aide briefed on ongoing negotiations between House Speaker John Boehner and President Obama says the two principals may be nearing a “grand bargain” to raise the debt limit which would contain large, set-in-stone spending cuts but only the possibility of future revenue increases.

“All cuts,” the aide said. “Maybe revenues some time in the future.”

…[T]wo aides and a third source, close to the principals confirmed that Obama has been emphatic with Democratic negotiators that his preference is to negotiate a big deal with Boehner and squeeze it through Congress.

To summarize, Obama opened with an offer to give the batshit tea party wing 90% of what they want – take for granted the horrible idea of slashing spending in a recession and add just enough revenue (~17%) to lube the pole for Harry Reid. Now, for what he must think is his last chance at a ‘deal’, he wants to jettison the revenues.

If I haggled for carpets like this, the rug merchant would own my house and kids and I still wouldn’t have a carpet.

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Reader Interactions

223Comments

  1. 1.

    Tom Q

    July 21, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    Great — another second/third-hand rumor. Let’s all react as if it’s confirmed fact!!!

  2. 2.

    Marc

    July 21, 2011 at 3:24 pm

    Haven’t we learned anything about the track record of these rumors?

  3. 3.

    Liberal Sandlapper

    July 21, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    Could we PLEASE fucking wait until something is confirmed as TRUE by the fucking White House before we start this namby-pamby bullshit?!?!?

    Fucking idiot.

  4. 4.

    cleek

    July 21, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    To summarize, Obama’s opening offer was 90% of what Republicans want –

    take the rope off your neck and step off the chair.

    it’s a fucking rumor.

  5. 5.

    brent

    July 21, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    C’mon man. Again with this half-assed rumor bullshit? How many times do we have to learn this lesson?

  6. 6.

    Hawes

    July 21, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    I’ll wait to hyperventilate.

    My guess is the McConnell-Reid plan will ultimately be the solution. There will be some cuts later that they can agree upon. In 2013, the leverage switches to the revenue advocates.

  7. 7.

    beltane

    July 21, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    This is no f*cking bargain. At least the Greeks put up a good show of disgust over their impending mass rape. We won’t even whimper.

    David Broder was right. Both sides do it, as in both sides screw normal Americans in favor of pleasing the parasitic rich.

  8. 8.

    Beta Magellan

    July 21, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    Or we can listen to Greg Sargent, who tweets,

    Congressional aide: “Pretty much all of” the info out there now on pending deal is “bad information.”

    (Of course, since he’s also using an anonymous source, we might be in an “all Cretans are liars” situation.)

    Oh, and a little over an hour later Reid shot this down. As did the White House.

    It’s really just a slow news day.

  9. 9.

    Tim F.

    July 21, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    Let’s all react as if it’s confirmed fact

    The confirmed facts are already horrible. Obama’s first Grand Bargain with Boehner was a nightmare. God only knows why Eric Cantor’s nutbag faction torpedoed it, but thank god for that. I have seen nothing from the White House so far to contradict the idea that he wants to find some halfway point between his already batshit first offer and the only slightly worse plan that Cantor’s faction wants.

  10. 10.

    Hawes

    July 21, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    The rug merchant metaphor doesn’t work, because you don’t NEED a rug.

    Try the DRUG merchant who has the one drug that will keep you alive and charges you $10K a month for it.

    That’s the sort of leverage the Crazy Caucus has right now.

  11. 11.

    middlewest

    July 21, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    The White House has already tweeted that this is crap.

    And seriously, anyone who uses the “rug merchant” analogy deserves to be laughed off of the stage. It’s just childish.

  12. 12.

    Quiddity

    July 21, 2011 at 3:28 pm

    These were written specifically for Ballon Juice readers. Hope you like ’em! (especially General Stuck)

    When the Obots see the budget deal,
    with a COLA that makes seniors squeal,
    they’ll shout out, “Don’t you know,
    this is only for show”,
    “What Barack signs will have more appeal”.
    (which it won’t)

    It takes a political dope,
    to think that there’s any faint hope,
    that the cuts to S.S.
    will have any success,
    stopping plutocrats’ financial grope.

    When Obama plays his kind of chess,
    even though it sure looks like a mess,
    you’ll hear words of praise,
    about all the ways,
    why the Beltway, he’ll surely impress.

    When Barack’s at the bargaining table,
    He tries hard, as much as he’s able,
    for a difference to split,
    ’cause he don’t give a shit,
    if you’re poor, elderly, or disabled.

  13. 13.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 21, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    Me, I’m okay with raising a stink. No point in sitting with our hands folded in our laps. I think the math is that Boehner is gonna need 80 Dem votes to get this passed. Let him know those votes are not his for the taking.

  14. 14.

    Sportello

    July 21, 2011 at 3:29 pm

    As this is is all just speculation at this point, my vote is that letting the Bush tax cuts is deemed not to be raising taxes, and Grover seems on board with this.

    All just a guess, though.

  15. 15.

    JGabriel

    July 21, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Prediction:

    There won’t be enough time before the deadline to write and pass the Grand Bargain bill (or whatever deal they reach). So the president will sign a short extension, say 2 weeks or 30 days to give it time to get through congress.

    Then the House Republicans will dick him over, changing the terms of the deal at the last minute, thereby scotching it and crashing the economy sometime circa mid-August through early September.

    .

  16. 16.

    Jody

    July 21, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    THIS. THIS. A THOUSAND TIMES THIS.

  17. 17.

    Wee Bey

    July 21, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    If you read that steaming pile closely, you can see the source for the ALL CUTS quote is a Republican aide.

    Why must people be stupid?

  18. 18.

    asiangrrlMN

    July 21, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    On the Twit Machine, the WH spokesman himself, Dan Pfeiffer: Anyone reporting a $3 trillion deal without revenues is incorrect. POTUS believes we need a balanced approach that includes revenues.

    Can we PLEASE not do this again? For fuck’s sake.

  19. 19.

    MTiffany

    July 21, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    If I haggled for carpets like this, the rug merchant would own my house and kids and I still wouldn’t have a carpet.

    Aside from losing the house, what’s the downside? No, seriously, kids are great.

    Debt ceiling? Fuck it. Steer the Titanic directly into that goddamned iceberg already, we need to move on to something else.

  20. 20.

    Catsy

    July 21, 2011 at 3:32 pm

    @beltane:

    David Broder was right.

    I’m fairly sure this is ungrammatical in the English language.

    More to the point: any body of text which contains these words in this order in an unironic way has succeeded only in clowning its writer.

  21. 21.

    slag

    July 21, 2011 at 3:33 pm

    If I haggled for carpets like this, the rug merchant would own my house and kids and I still wouldn’t have a carpet.

    Wait. Where are you that you’re haggling for carpets? A Mideast bazaar?

  22. 22.

    stuckinred

    July 21, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    asiangrrlMN –

    hi

  23. 23.

    jwb

    July 21, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    cleek: a rumor, true, albeit widely circulated and you have to wonder by whom and why.

    Given the way this is now being walked back (very similar to what happened with Norquist’s comments this morning on the other side), I have to think that the Dems in congress said no. Then, too, I have to wonder if generating such pushback wasn’t the point of floating the initial rumor.

  24. 24.

    Will Reks

    July 21, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    In hindsight, maybe we should have started off the negotiations with the catfood commission’s “unofficial” recommendations. That seems to be more in line with what Obama actually wants.

  25. 25.

    lacp

    July 21, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    Suspect there will be a lot more such rumors in the next few days, with everybody involved sending up these trial balloons.

  26. 26.

    Rhoda

    July 21, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    I don’t understand the universal distrust of POTUS. I’ll just say again Boehner got his clock cleaned last time and the President has been playing wicked defense against a GOP with historic gains in the house and do nothing republican senate.

    Nothing is a deal until everything is agreed to, and I trust the President to hold the line. And this isn’t about telling folks not to freak; freak the fuck out. It’ll help on the margins likely.

  27. 27.

    JonF

    July 21, 2011 at 3:37 pm

    From 538:

    Uninformed guess: today’s #debtdeal rumor was a poison pill brought to you by a high-ranking Democratic congressman.

  28. 28.

    Gin & Tonic

    July 21, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Prediction:

    I will spend the late afternoon and evening more or less on the deck, drinking and watering the plants. The TV and the computer will be powered off. While I will be hot, I will not be bothered.

  29. 29.

    Tim F.

    July 21, 2011 at 3:38 pm

    Can we PLEASE not do this again? For fuck’s sake.

    Trial balloons are like a loose pawn in chess. Not worth that much most of the time but you still need to shoot them down.

  30. 30.

    Maude

    July 21, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    @asiangrrlMN:
    So good to see you during the day. You hot?
    I’m sick of the scare rumors about this.
    Edwards has to pay back $2 mil to the gov’t.

  31. 31.

    JGabriel

    July 21, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I think the math is that Boehner is gonna need 80 Dem votes to get this passed.

    I think when push comes to shove, he’ll need 140 Democratic votes or more.

    The truth is that the majority of the House Republicans are adamantly opposed to raising the debt limit, not because they give a shit about the debt, but because they think crashing the global economy works for them.

    .

  32. 32.

    nastybrutishntall

    July 21, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    I wuz wrong. Teh Obama sux. Wonder if even O’Donnell can’t find a way to make this poo hoagie palatable.

  33. 33.

    Quiddity

    July 21, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    @Wee Bey: It’s because the White House has been so inconsistent in their stance that stories like this one are deemed plausible (even by Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader).

  34. 34.

    Dave L

    July 21, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    It’s all kabuki — in the end there will be a McConnell/Reid-style deal that stitches things up this time, and we can all look forward to a repeat of the same nonsense next year.

    But these rumors are useful. By now everyone but the 27% accepts that Obama has gone the extra 42 miles, and that it’s the GOP being stubborn.

  35. 35.

    MBunge

    July 21, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    “I don’t understand the universal distrust of POTUS.”

    I think it’s the flipside of the slavish devotion conservatives display toward their leaders.

    Mike

  36. 36.

    Rome Again

    July 21, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    They’re yanking your chain, and you’re letting them.

    Obama is running for re-election. He isn’t going to win that way and he knows it. Besides, he doesn’t need to. This is floating out the number of instances where the GOP is unreasonable (they will NOT compromise, they will not accept it, it will not happen. Stop worrying!).

  37. 37.

    Linda Featheringill

    July 21, 2011 at 3:41 pm

    Tim:

    Sweetheart, I love you. Chill. It hasn’t happened yet. Wait on the suicide bit until it actually does happen. Okay?

  38. 38.

    freelancer

    July 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Wait. Where are you that you’re haggling for carpets? A Mideast bazaar?

    Probably a normal outdoor market in Indiana in the summer time.

  39. 39.

    middlewest

    July 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    So to summarize, the rumor is completely unfounded, but we should freak out because the stuff we think we know already is bad enough.

  40. 40.

    cmorenc

    July 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    I WISH Obama would channel him some LBJ. Lyndon would long ago have arranged for Boehner and Cantor to have awakened one morning with bloody cattle-heads at the foot of their beds, and then when they came to the White House to negotiate the situation, put their nuts in an unbearable vice-squeeze to bring them to their senses to agree to a deal and whatever was necessary to horsewhip their own troops into line.

  41. 41.

    Slowbama

    July 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    TPM is simply horrible. Can’t believe you fell for this from them AGAIN.

    They keep ‘expanding’ with new staffers but the site continues to decline, both in quality and, strangely, quantity.

    They don’t even really post on weekends anymore. Sad.

  42. 42.

    The Ancient Randonneur

    July 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    I love the blogosphere. Let no unfounded rumor die before it’s time.

  43. 43.

    kindness

    July 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Last night’s thread was hard to stomach. I really would prefer we not do that again this soon. As others have asked, please stop making this worse than it has to be until we know what is on the table.

    Once we know that I will still say Obama should roll with a 14th Amendment solution and dare Republicans to impeach him.

  44. 44.

    Tom Levenson

    July 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    Reid pushing back, Plouffe denying, Bohner saying there’s no deal.

    I’ve already sent two politely enraged emails to the White House, called my Rep (Barney Frank! Yay!), but I think this is not really happening.

    I hope.

  45. 45.

    Lolis

    July 21, 2011 at 3:42 pm

    You are leaving out that the WH has denied this. I am out of outrage for things that are not going to be true.

  46. 46.

    Martin

    July 21, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    And please again remember, according to Gang of Six logic, eliminating deductions is going to be called a ‘cut’ in order to win over the suicide bombers. Don’t know if that’s part of the deal or not, but that’s now officially part of the definition, no matter how little sense it makes.

  47. 47.

    MBunge

    July 21, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    “It’s because the White House has been so inconsistent in their stance that stories like this one are deemed plausible.”

    It’s because liberals take everything this White House accomplishes for granted, including health care reform which political genius Bill Clinton couldn’t even get a damn vote on, and assumes the alternative was always something better.

    Mike

  48. 48.

    Tom Q

    July 21, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Tim F. — Except you didn’t “shoot it down”; you did the full-firebagger “Obama has betrayed us; death to him!”

    We’ve seen about 100 of these stupid frickin’ rumors over the last seven months. EVERY SINGLE ONE as turned out to be bullshit. Yet there are always people ready to fall for it.

    People keep using the Lucy/Charlie Brown/football analogy for Obama’s dealing with the GOP. They don’t seem to get it applies to them as well, falling for the same trick over and over.

  49. 49.

    Butch

    July 21, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    At least at TPM, the sourcing seemed really thin and I’m waiting to see. On the other hand, I think there’s a good reason some people will rush to the judgment that Obama capitulated.

  50. 50.

    beltane

    July 21, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    @Rhoda

    I think there is a universal distrust of everyone right now. The only people visible to the Beltway media are the ultra-privileged Galtians at the top. It seems the upper 1% and their stooges have an insatiable urge to devour all the rest of us. Obama has actually not been nearly as bad as the European leaders in this regard, but these are not times which inspire trust.

  51. 51.

    Trurl

    July 21, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    Cue ABL screeching that this doesn’t count as the SS sellout she promised to eat crow over because the mean old Republicans made him do it.

    How’s that shit sandwich tasting now, ‘bots?

  52. 52.

    JPL

    July 21, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    So who in the White House refudiated the NYTimes article? Was it the President himself? hmmmmm

  53. 53.

    jwb

    July 21, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    Tim F.: You, of all people, know that yelling about it on a blog does nothing but raise the hit count. If you need to vent, how about encouraging folks to call their congresscritters?

  54. 54.

    Lawnguylander

    July 21, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    If I haggled for carpets like this, the rug merchant would own my house and kids and I still wouldn’t have a carpet.

    I’m betting that the way you actually would haggle for carpets is that you’d walk by his selling area and when his back is turned you’d give him the finger and mutter that you won’t be a part of his system. And you still wouldn’t have a carpet. Unlike that stupid Barack Obama who has a really nice carpet. He’s such a sucker.

  55. 55.

    Linda Featheringill

    July 21, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    @kindness:

    Yes.

    The constitutional move is a real option, in my opinion. It might not be the best of all things, but it seems like a reasonable move to me.

  56. 56.

    Wee Bey

    July 21, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    https://balloon-juice.com/2011/07/21/the-grand-bargain/#comment-2683171

    That.

  57. 57.

    chopper

    July 21, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    given the last deal obama made with boner, i’m not going to assume the worst based on an anonymous rumor. put the gun down, tim.

  58. 58.

    Martin

    July 21, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    How’s that shit sandwich tasting now, ‘bots?

    What did Obama sign again? Nothing.

    Oh, right, firebaggers taking their victory lap before the race has even been scheduled.

  59. 59.

    boss bitch

    July 21, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    new hash tag I just saw on my twitter feed: #hillsourcesconfirm

    funny stuff.

  60. 60.

    Dave

    July 21, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    How many times do we have to learn this lesson?

    Oh god. How many times do you have to learn the lesson that whenever Obama is given the option, he runs to the right?

  61. 61.

    bcgister

    July 21, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    It’s certainly not worth having an aneurism over “news” like this, although, the upside is that it can send a lot of people off to the phones to call in their objections to their congresscritters. This maintains a very desirable pressure against a ‘deal’ like the one described.

  62. 62.

    JC

    July 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Thanks for posting on the rumor Tim. Even if it is just a rumor, keeps us up to date on ‘what is known’.

    Fallows has a good post up about the analysis choice – given of course, that the Rethuglicans are being thugs.

    Version one – Tom Tomorrow’s MiddleMan!

    Version two – Obama is a political Chess Master!

    So, which is it?

    What’s funny in these conversations is, how otherwise smart people are SO FAR APART on whether Obama is a brilliant liberal lion or a wimpy foolish centrist.

    Certainly, there IS EVIDENCE of both.

    Example on the wimpy centrist solution –

    a. why not push the Progressive Caucus’s solution?

    It raises revenues why not hurting people.
    b. Why do anything?

    Let the Bush tax cuts expire, continue to wind down resources in Iraq and Afghanistan, affix hedge fund income as normal income, get rid of offshore tax breaks having to do with incorporating in Barbados.

    We are almost in balance, just with those moves.

    Then we can talk about ‘reducing’ benefits.

    Politically, the whole summer of ACA, was handled stupidly, and energized the Tea Party, though the vote got through.

    Evidence for the brilliant liberal lion:

    A whole bunch – ACA, stimulus, Lily Ledbetter, etc, etc, etc. This administration has accomplished a lot.

    Is there any hope that everyone can see there is evidence for both sides, or is this impossible, here at BJ?

  63. 63.

    jeffreyw

    July 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Oh hell no. Here are some puppies instead.

  64. 64.

    overeducated

    July 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    EVERYBODY PANIC!

  65. 65.

    cleek

    July 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    @Slowbama:

    TPM is simply horrible.

    especially Brian Beutler. he’s a total sucker for rumors that make Obama look bad.

  66. 66.

    donr

    July 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    Isn’t Josh Marshall on vacation at the moment? That might explain a bit of the quality-control problem at TPM right now.

  67. 67.

    Chris

    July 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    The truth is that the majority of the House Republicans are adamantly opposed to raising the debt limit, not because they give a shit about the debt, but because they think crashing the global economy works for them.

    I doubt if they’re thinking about anything other than their electoral prospects. If they vote with the Democrats, they’re traitors, and they’ll be run out of office on a rail come election time. If they stand against the Democrats, they stand a chance to blame the whole mess on him and ride the resulting anger to another term in office.

    At least that’s how I think they see it. Advance against the enemy and the bullet might miss you. Retreat, evade, betray, and the bullet will never miss.

  68. 68.

    Rome Again

    July 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    @Dave L:

    But these rumors are useful. By now everyone but the 27% accepts that Obama has gone the extra 42 miles, and that it’s the GOP being stubborn.

    Exactly!

  69. 69.

    beltane

    July 21, 2011 at 3:48 pm

    @Kindness

    Agreed. Since the Republicans are committed to deliberately sabotaging the US economy and forcing the majority of the population into destitution, the President is certainly justified in using whatever tools are necessary to save the country. I’d start with cutting off their AC and bathroom priviledges.

  70. 70.

    middlewest

    July 21, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    I WISH Obama would channel him some LBJ.

    Ah, so you want him to wait until he is in his second term with a large mandate and a democratic congress before he pursues his agenda, then piss his popularity away in a pointless war? OK.

  71. 71.

    nastybrutishntall

    July 21, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    @ G&T / 28: I, could drink, a case of you.

  72. 72.

    cmorenc

    July 21, 2011 at 3:49 pm

    Unless Obama extracts concrete revenue increases of some significant sort NOW in any deal, any purported agreement by Boehner, Cantor, McConnell et. al. to negotiate revenue increases in the next round will prove WORTHLESS. The wingnuts holding the country hostage will consider their ability to extract substantial concessions from Obama using their inflexible intransigence without giving up anything concrete themselves to have been a huge success, with no incentive whatever to reconsider that they might have been wrong being so stubborn about refusing to increase revenue.

  73. 73.

    Holden Pattern

    July 21, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    I think I understand now.

    We’re not supposed to raise a fuss over rumors, but the deals are being cut in secret, so there’s nothing but rumors that can spur a response.

    And once the deal is cut in secret and announced, I assume that we will then be told that it’s too late, that we should have spoken up earlier if we had concerns.

    All is as it should be.

  74. 74.

    JGabriel

    July 21, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    @Rome Again:

    This is floating out the number of instances where the GOP is unreasonable (they will NOT compromise, they will not accept it, it will not happen. Stop worrying!).

    Not really soothing my anxieties, Rome Again. Even if the current rumors are just a feint, I still find the idea of a no compromise GOP that refuses to raise the debt ceiling kind of worrisome.

    .

  75. 75.

    DonkeyKong

    July 21, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    Let’s all call these rumors, however I can’t get away from the fact that Obama is trying to defuse a bomb while taking advice about which colored wire to cut from the guys who planted the bomb.

    That’s the fucked up part about this.

    That and from now on the “debt ceiling” is now another useable weapon in the beltway version of “Thunderdome”

    Mad Max Thunderdome
    “Two men enter, one man leaves”
    Mad Beltway Thunderdome
    “Both sides do it”

  76. 76.

    Belafon (formerly anonevent)

    July 21, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    Tim:
    1. Have we not learned about unnamed sources?
    2. Did you actually read the article? It talks about the White House disagreeing that a deal was imminent.

  77. 77.

    Martin

    July 21, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    It’s because the White House has been so inconsistent in their stance that stories like this one are deemed plausible.

    The WH has been perfectly consistent in their stance. The problem is that you guys keep assigning motive to neutral statements. “All options are on the table” doesn’t mean “I can’t wait to sell out liberals and kill grandma”.

    As I said before, firebaggers shouldn’t ever have kids because they’re going to have to kill themselves every time their two-year-old says ‘I hate you’.

  78. 78.

    cleek

    July 21, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    @Dave:

    How many times do you have to learn the lesson that whenever Obama is given the option, he runs to the right?

    totally. can you believe how quickly he signed Paul Ryan’s budget into law!?

    he didn’t?

    well, i bet he wanted to!

  79. 79.

    chopper

    July 21, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    so Tim, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it’s time for your readers to crack each other’s heads open and feast on the goo inside?

  80. 80.

    JonF

    July 21, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    JPL: it was Pfeffer who denied it on twitter very quickly after the rumor came out.

  81. 81.

    JC

    July 21, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    It is important though, that Obama is dealing with crazy people, who are holding a gun to the head of the economic welfare of this country.

    And the media, for the most part, refuses to report this straight.

    How would you do in that situation?

    I’d certainly blow it…

  82. 82.

    boss bitch

    July 21, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    @donr:

    Isn’t Josh Marshall on vacation at the moment? That might explain a bit of the quality-control problem at TPM right now.

    Nope. At work or on vacation, this happens all the time over at TPM.

  83. 83.

    Corey

    July 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    But wait guys, HE’S GOT THIS!!

  84. 84.

    jwb

    July 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    DonkeyKong: “Both sides do it.” And we all go boom!

  85. 85.

    Brachiator

    July 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Could we PLEASE fucking wait until something is confirmed as TRUE by the fucking White House before we start this namby-pamby bullshit?

    Yep.

    I know that the Internets were invented to provide a vehicle for prediction, speculation, and rumor mongering. But still.

    Let’s see how it turns out.

    Meanwhile, a rant:

    The freakin Greeks can finally get a deal and Congress is still playing chicken!

    Leaders of the Eurozone countries have reached a new agreement on tackling the Greek debt crisis, at a summit in Brussels.
    __
    They include debt restructuring and an expansion of the European bailout fund. The new bailout will – for the first time – also involve private lenders, according to the French President, Nicolas Sarkozy.

    There was some reporting in an earlier BBC news story that the Obama Administration helped get this deal done, persuading Germany to be more flexible.

    Imagine. Germany, more flexible than the Tea Party dominated Republicans.

  86. 86.

    Poopyman

    July 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Happy 150th anniversary to the Battle of Bull Run! Back when the -Republicans-Democrats waged a real shootin’ war against the -Democrats-Republicans by trying to leave the Union. Just like -today-tomorrow, only without antibiotics.

    This is not a rumor, AFAICT. Except maybe for the shootin’ war in the future. We’ll see.

  87. 87.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    We’re not supposed to raise a fuss over rumors,

    Depends on how you “raise a fuss”. Are you calling your Senators and Rep? Or are you jerking off on a blog about how the fantasy president in your head would hit Eric Cantor with a chair?

  88. 88.

    JC

    July 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Part of the game is to report on the rumors.

    But they should do a better job of where it is coming from, and the motivation of the ‘source’.

  89. 89.

    chopper

    July 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    @75:

    however I can’t get away from the fact that Obama is trying to defuse a bomb while taking advice about which colored wire to cut from the guys who planted the bomb.

    meanwhile, a bunch of colorblind bloggers are behind him screaming ‘cut the fuckin’ grey one!’

  90. 90.

    Rome Again

    July 21, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    @kindness:

    Once we know that I will still say Obama should roll with a 14th Amendment solution and dare Republicans to impeach him

    I understand Bill Clinton agrees with you (and so do I).

  91. 91.

    Davis X. Machina

    July 21, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer: “Anyone reporting a $3 trillion deal without revenues is incorrect. POTUS believes we need a balanced approach that includes revenues.”

  92. 92.

    agrippa

    July 21, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Another rumor.

  93. 93.

    freelancer

    July 21, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    “America Sad if economy blow up! No blow up Economy!”

  94. 94.

    Martin

    July 21, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Lyndon would long ago have arranged for Boehner and Cantor to have awakened one morning with bloody cattle-heads at the foot of their beds

    I don’t know. I think Cantor might be the worst punishment Obama could hope to arrange for Boehner.

  95. 95.

    Cermet

    July 21, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Maybe you are correct but maybe not – one tax cut that was going in the last time was a 1 trillion dollar revenue increase. If Obama wants it to pass, then games like that allow it to pass and the orange blow jober will agree just to get the elite off his ass to trick the hand job thugs to vote for it.

  96. 96.

    Mattminus

    July 21, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Could we be seeing a post about how Tim F. is a “grifter” soon?

  97. 97.

    Suffern ACE

    July 21, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    a rumor, true, albeit widely circulated and you have to wonder by whom and why.

    Republicans sometimes talk to republican voters.

  98. 98.

    Davis X. Machina

    July 21, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    @chopper:

    meanwhile, a bunch of colorblind bloggers are behind him screaming ‘cut the fuckin’ grey one!

    Tim Berners-Lee called and said you can have the internet.

  99. 99.

    Rome Again

    July 21, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    @Poopyman:

    Happy 150th anniversary to the Battle of Bull Run! Back when the RepublicansDemocrats waged a real shootin’ war against the DemocratsRepublicans by trying to leave the Union. Just like todaytomorrow, only without antibiotics.

    Genius!

  100. 100.

    Han's Big Snark Solo

    July 21, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    So the source for this is TPM but when I go to TPM what do I find at the top of the page?

    White House communications director Dan Pfeiffer: “Anyone reporting a $3 trillion deal without revenues is incorrect. POTUS believes we need a balanced approach that includes revenues.”

  101. 101.

    PurpleGirl

    July 21, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Whatever the hell the truth of the grand bargain… please, please call and contact your representative and your senators and let them know you want tax increases, you don’t want Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid cuts. Let them know. It’s fine to come here and rant about rumors, but you also have to let them know what you do and don’t want.

    And if you have a republican representative or senator ask them where are the jobs, jobs, THE JOBS.

  102. 102.

    jwest

    July 21, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    “All cuts,” the aide said. “Maybe revenues some time in the future.”

    Any republican who supports a deal that even hints at tax increases now or in the future will be challenged in the primaries and thrown out of office.

    This is not subject to negotiation.

  103. 103.

    DonkeyKong

    July 21, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Tim F just wants to hear this from the President directed at Boner and Jr. Boner.

    “Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I’m in a transitional period so I don’t wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can’t give you America’s Future, it don’t belong to me. Besides, I’ve already been through too much shit this morning over America’s Future to hand it over to your dumb ass.”

  104. 104.

    boss bitch

    July 21, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Anyone who consistently and easily loses their schpadoinkle over rumors from our CRAPPY media should not comment on Obama’s negotiating skills and how he would do business.

  105. 105.

    overeducated

    July 21, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    I think I understand now. We’re not supposed to raise a fuss over rumors, but the deals are being cut in secret, so there’s nothing but rumors that can spur a response. And once the deal is cut in secret and announced, I assume that we will then be told that it’s too late, that we should have spoken up earlier if we had concerns. All is as it should be.

    No if a deal is cut and it is terrible FDL and their ilk will have every right to eviscerate Obama, because then they would be right. However, until that point, maybe you could take it down a notch or three.

  106. 106.

    stinkfoot

    July 21, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    @cmorenc

    I WISH Obama would channel him some LBJ.

    Also – negotiating with an opponent while sitting on the can taking a shit with the door open. Classic LBJ move.

  107. 107.

    Rome Again

    July 21, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Leaders of the Eurozone countries have reached a new agreement on tackling the Greek debt crisis, at a summit in Brussels.

    Let me know when they figure out what to do with Italy.

  108. 108.

    cleek

    July 21, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    @boss bitch:
    very nice

  109. 109.

    different church-lady

    July 21, 2011 at 4:00 pm

    Steer the Titanic directly into that goddamned iceberg already, we need to move on to something else.

    By “something else”, you mean lifeboats?

  110. 110.

    BruinKid

    July 21, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    All right, so in response to the news over that potential turd sandwich of a deal on the debt ceiling, I just called all my representatives in Congress (House & Senate) to register my complaint about a cuts-only deal to raise the debt ceiling. Had quick conversations with the Senators’ offices, and a longer one with my House member’s office, where they got my address and info. The Senators’ staffers just asked for my zip code.

    It’s the least I or anyone else can do. Even if it’s only a rumor, there’s a reason it got pushed out there. If the GOP wants to play this game, then we need to show the American people are going to be VERY angry with them. D.C. isn’t going to notice angry blog comments. They’ll perhaps notice if their phones start ringing off the hooks. At the very least, my phone calls (if others do it too) will help stiffen what little spine there is among the Democrats in D.C., and cast just a twinge of electoral worry into the Republicans.

    Again, here’s the contact info for both bodies. Find your congresscritter on the list, and call them. To ensure you get through, call their LOCAL offices, not the ones in D.C.

    House
    Senate

  111. 111.

    slag

    July 21, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    @freelancer: Seriously? I can’t tell if you’re messing with me or not. Is there a bustling carpet trade going on in the Midwest? Clearly, I need to get out more.

  112. 112.

    JGabriel

    July 21, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    @donr:

    Isn’t Josh Marshall on vacation at the moment? That might explain a bit of the quality-control problem at TPM right now.

    It’s not just TPM. The Times is reporting this too.

    .

  113. 113.

    Bobby Thomson

    July 21, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    Isn’t Josh Marshall on vacation at the moment? That might explain a bit of the quality-control problem at TPM right now.

    If by “at the moment,” you mean “since the birth of his first child a few years ago,” then yes, that partially explains the problem.

  114. 114.

    burnspbesq

    July 21, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    @Trurl:

    “How’s that shit sandwich tasting now, ‘bots?”

    It tastes like what it is: a Fig Newton of your deranged imagination.

    Now here’s a bottle of Liquid Plumb’r and a straw. Do the right thing.

  115. 115.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    July 21, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    C’mon, Tim. I’m starting to expect this sort of misleadingly vague sourcing from TPM, but I don’t expect you to fall for it.

  116. 116.

    Linda Featheringill

    July 21, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Are you calling your Senators and Rep? Or are you jerking off on a blog about how the fantasy president in your head would hit Eric Cantor with a chair?

    Can’t we do both?

  117. 117.

    Bobby Thomson

    July 21, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    @JGabriel

    The Times is also reporting that everyone involved denies that anyone is close to a deal. Which sounds right. Nothing has changed.

  118. 118.

    cleek

    July 21, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    @overeducated:
    of course the deal is going to be terrible. it’s going to be terrible for everybody because nobody in DC has enough leverage to get everything they want. each side of the negotiations is going to have to give up something important, and each side of the peanut gallery is going to think they got the shitty end of the stick and that their leaders failed and capitulated and should’ve stood firm, yadayadayada.

    it’s going to be a fucking nightmare around here for the next 6 weeks.

  119. 119.

    Trurl

    July 21, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    POTUS believes we need a balanced approach that includes revenues

    POS also “believed” that a public option was best. We know how much that counted for.

  120. 120.

    lacp

    July 21, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    Aren’t House Republicans the real target for these rumors? It sure ain’t pseudonymous bloggers.

  121. 121.

    JGabriel

    July 21, 2011 at 4:05 pm

    Brachiator:

    The freakin Greeks can finally get a deal and Congress is still playing chicken!

    Leaders of the Eurozone countries have reached a new agreement on tackling the Greek debt crisis, at a summit in Brussels.

    Shorter Eurozone Leaders: We didn’t want people mistaking us for American Republicans.

    .

  122. 122.

    JGabriel

    July 21, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Imagine. Germany, more flexible than the Tea Party dominated Republicans.

    Not that hard, really. The German right is only marginally to the right of the American left. On some issues, like the death penalty, the German right is actually to the Democrats left.

    .

  123. 123.

    different church-lady

    July 21, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    can you believe how quickly he signed Paul Ryan’s budget into law!? he didn’t? well, i bet he wanted to!

    Are you kidding me? He STILL wants to! He’s going to spend his entire second term TRYING to!!!

  124. 124.

    middlewest

    July 21, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    That hashtag is great:

    #HillSourcesConfirm Cenk spoke WAY too much truth to power, man.

  125. 125.

    Served

    July 21, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    It’s a rumor, but progressives and sane people need to put out into the meme ether that they will not accept a deal that goes after SS and Medi- benefits or a deal that does not include revenue. It has to be stated. Again and again and again.

    If there are tremendous freak-outs, let’s mock those, but every time one of these leaks happen, it’s important to state that it’s unacceptable.

  126. 126.

    JGabriel

    July 21, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    @Bobby Thomson:

    The Times is also reporting that everyone involved denies that anyone is close to a deal.

    Then they’ve updated it since they first published the rumor.

    .

  127. 127.

    JMG

    July 21, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Take it from someone who covered strikes and labor negotiations in all four professional sports. In negotiations, everything reported before there is an actual signed agreement is bullshit. Really, go short your Treasuries or something useful. Don’t freak out on every story. Could Obama sell out the Democrats? Sure. But it hasn’t happened yet.

  128. 128.

    Dennis SGMM

    July 21, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    All else aside, I haven’t had so much fun since Y2K.

  129. 129.

    Catsy

    July 21, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    @donr:

    Isn’t Josh Marshall on vacation at the moment? That might explain a bit of the quality-control problem at TPM right now.

    I don’t think Josh’s vacations have a bit to do with it. TPM has been falling further and further down the Drudge/tabloid rabbit hole in the past few years. The site’s link-baiting and rumor-mongering has gotten pretty pathetic.

  130. 130.

    AAA Bonds

    July 21, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    LOLLERZ!

  131. 131.

    Tim F.

    July 21, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    You, of all people, know that yelling about it on a blog does nothing but raise the hit count. If you need to vent, how about encouraging folks to call their congresscritters?

    In all honesty I have no idea what to tell people to tell their Representatives. The last thing we need right now is one more faction, say a liberal core led by Raul Grijalva or some such, throwing yet another set of inflexible demands into the pot. The phone thing works well when an influencible bloc of Reps are right on the edge of an important decision; I just do not see how it will help when everyone involved is dug in so deep that all you can see is the top of their ears.

    There is no good option to ask for. About our best hope now is that Congress fails to pass a damn thing, Obama dismisses the debt limit entirely and Anthony Kennedy lets him keep his job. In this environment any realistic ‘agreement’ will suck so hard that I don’t want to have anything to do with it. Even the idea of attacking the deficit during a recession strikes me as a catastrophic blunder.

    If you have any ideas I’m all ears.

  132. 132.

    freelancer

    July 21, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    @slag:

    I was mocking Mike Pence.

  133. 133.

    different church-lady

    July 21, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    meanwhile, a bunch of colorblind bloggers are behind him screaming ‘cut the fuckin’ grey one!’

    No more callers, please, we have a winner.

  134. 134.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    July 21, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    JGabriel

    It’s not just TPM. The Times is reporting this too.

    I don’t think so. NYTimes:

    The Obama administration has informed Democratic Congressional leaders that President Obama and Speaker John A. Boehner were starting to close in on a major budget deal that would enact substantial spending cuts and seek future revenues through a tax overhaul, Congressional officials said Thursday.

    This reads as if spending cuts and a tax overhaul- which will raise revenue in the future, seeing as you can’t raise revenues in the past or in the present- go hand in hand. TPM, otoh, is saying that the revenue question itself will be addressed in the future. Big difference.

    To clarify: TPM says revenue legislation in the future, separate from cuts, NYTimes says legislation for cuts and revenue together.

  135. 135.

    Brachiator

    July 21, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    @DonkeyKong:

    Tim F just wants to hear this from the President directed at Boner and Jr. Boner.
    __
    “Normally, both your asses would be dead as fucking fried chicken, but you happen to pull this shit while I’m in a transitional period so I don’t wanna kill you, I wanna help you. But I can’t give you America’s Future, it don’t belong to me. Besides, I’ve already been through too much shit this morning over America’s Future to hand it over to your dumb ass.”

    Works for me. Maybe it continues like this:

    Obama: I want you to go in that bag, and find my wallet.
    Boehner: Which one is it?
    Obama: It’s the empty one that says Bad Motherfucker Debt Ceiling. I’m not giving you these tax cuts. I’m buying something from you. Wanna know what I’m buyin’ Your life. I’m givin’ you some tax cuts so I don’t have to kill your ass.

  136. 136.

    AAA Bonds

    July 21, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    I like to raise revenues in my pants O.O

  137. 137.

    General Stuck

    July 21, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    White House Press Secretary Jay Carney shot down reports this afternoon that President Obama and Speaker Boehner are close to reaching a deal to reduce the deficit.

    “There is no deal. We are not close to a deal,” Carney definitively told reporters in Thursday’s daily press briefing.

    Yawn

  138. 138.

    gwangung

    July 21, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    All right, so in response to the news over that potential turd sandwich of a deal on the debt ceiling, I just called all my representatives in Congress (House & Senate) to register my complaint about a cuts-only deal to raise the debt ceiling. Had quick conversations with the Senators’ offices, and a longer one with my House member’s office, where they got my address and info. The Senators’ staffers just asked for my zip code.
    __
    It’s the least I or anyone else can do.

    Someone with their head screwed on straight.

    If you think this is a shit sandwich, then don’t just blame someone–go at least put some pressure on people who ARE relevant in this. Blaming Reid or Obama or Pelosi or whatever is kinda stupid if this thing is still being crafted.

  139. 139.

    stuckinred

    July 21, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Dennis SGMM

    At least the Pueblo really happened!

  140. 140.

    AAA Bonds

    July 21, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUZGkNAUSvY

  141. 141.

    Nutella

    July 21, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    @Tom Levenson:

    Sending letters to congress and the president is a lot more useful than saying it’s only a rumor, nothing to worry about. Every time anyone so much as suggests cutting Social Security, for example, a mighty roar from the public should sweep through DC. We need to keep up the pressure, not by panicking, but by pushing our position over and over again.

  142. 142.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    July 21, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    Brachiator

    I’ve got that wallet in my pocket. It actually reads:

    BAD
    MOTHER
    FUCKER

    Pedantically yours, TMM

  143. 143.

    different church-lady

    July 21, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    #HillSourcesConfirm Cenk spoke WAY too much truth to power, man.

    Gimme an F! Gimme a T! Gimme an F! Gimme a Y!

  144. 144.

    dr. bloor

    July 21, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    Benen suggests that this may be a Democratic counterdemonstration to yesterday’s “Cut and Cap” dick-swinging.

    Here’s another theory: this was “Cut, Cap, and Balance” in reverse. Republicans made a show on Tuesday of demonstrating to Dems what they want in terms of a debt-reduction deal. It wouldn’t surprise me if some Democrats leaked word of a one-sided deal, waited for the inevitable uproar, and demonstrated to Republicans just how much overwhelming Democratic opposition there is to a spending-cuts-only proposition.

  145. 145.

    Stefan

    July 21, 2011 at 4:21 pm

    I don’t think Josh’s vacations have a bit to do with it. TPM has been falling further and further down the Drudge/tabloid rabbit hole in the past few years. The site’s link-baiting and rumor-mongering has gotten pretty pathetic.

    I have to say, I agree, and I was one of the original fans. What’s gotten into them over there?

  146. 146.

    Han's Big Snark Solo

    July 21, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    @Tim F.:

    In all honesty I have no idea what to tell people to tell their Representatives.

    I live in Texas. I’m fairly sure calling my Senators is a Capital crime here, unless I’m calling to insist that government keep it’s hands off my Medicare.

    But I get your point. I could call my Representative Lloyd Doggett, I doubt he’d have me put to death, but what would I say?

  147. 147.

    Dennis SGMM

    July 21, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    @stuckinred:
    As a Navy man, descended from Navy men, the attack on the Pueblo is one of those very rare things that makes me willing to strap on the nuclearms and clean house.

  148. 148.

    middlewest

    July 21, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    Oh, if only there were someone in the Obama administration who had the reputation of being a tough-talking asshole who knew how to bust heads and take names. Surely the progressive left would rally behind such a person, like they did with LBJ.

  149. 149.

    OzoneR

    July 21, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    Lyndon would long ago have arranged for Boehner and Cantor to have awakened one morning with bloody cattle-heads at the foot of their beds, and then when they came to the White House to negotiate the situation, put their nuts in an unbearable vice-squeeze to bring them to their senses to agree to a deal and whatever was necessary to horsewhip their own troops into line.

    Wow, if this isn’t delusional, I dont know what is.

  150. 150.

    Rome Again

    July 21, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    @dr. bloor:

    Thank you. I was just about to post the same thing. :)

  151. 151.

    Cain

    July 21, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Eventually all of us are going to get tired of being outraged…

  152. 152.

    Tsulagi

    July 21, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    If I haggled for carpets like this, the rug merchant would own my house and kids and I still wouldn’t have a carpet.

    And you’d be paying the rug merchant to service your wife. Otherwise the rug merchant’s family would tell you they’ve all been victimized by you heartless bastard. Wouldn’t want that.

  153. 153.

    sixers

    July 21, 2011 at 4:31 pm

    I’m pretty sure ABL told us Obama’s “Got this” so I’m not worried.

  154. 154.

    Rome Again

    July 21, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    @Tim F.:

    The confirmed facts are already horrible. Obama’s first Grand Bargain with Boehner was a nightmare. God only knows why Eric Cantor’s nutbag faction torpedoed it, but thank god for that. I have seen nothing from the White House so far to contradict the idea that he wants to find some halfway point between his already batshit first offer and the only slightly worse plan that Cantor’s faction wants.

    Obama knew they wouldn’t accept it, because the word compromise is a dirty word among the Tea Party faction .

  155. 155.

    Mothra

    July 21, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    http://twitter.com/#!/pfeiffer44/statuses/94124847071899649

  156. 156.

    Poopyman

    July 21, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    In hindsight I can see now that my big mistake was not buying into the MRE or Spam Futures markets.

  157. 157.

    NamelessGenXer

    July 21, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    HO.LY.FUCK.

    Didn’t I read this same thread here yesterday also too?

    LATER.

  158. 158.

    Linda Featheringill

    July 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    @Tim F.:

    About our best hope now is that Congress fails to pass a damn thing, Obama dismisses the debt limit entirely and Anthony Kennedy lets him keep his job.

    Not a bad idea, IMO.

    But the Court cannot impeach a sitting president, can it? If Obama’s actions are declared unconstitutional, he is only required to change those actions to something that the Court considers consistent with the Constitution.

    The House, on the other hand, can impeach a president. And they probably would love to. But they would like that now and so far Obama hasn’t done anything unconstitutional. So what would change?

  159. 159.

    Dennis SGMM

    July 21, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    @OzoneR:
    Have you read Lyndon Johnson: Master of the Senate?

  160. 160.

    yeahyeahwhatevs (Studly Pantload, once upon a time)

    July 21, 2011 at 4:36 pm

    Everybody.

    Chill.

    The.

    Fuck.

    Out.

    —–

    He’s.

    Got.

    This.

  161. 161.

    chopper

    July 21, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    If I haggled for carpets like this, the rug merchant would own my house and kids and I still wouldn’t have a carpet.

    you don’t haggle for carpets like this, tim. your wife haggles while you stand next to her jumping up and down screaming “WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOU’RE QUEERING THE DEAL! WE’RE SCREWED!”

  162. 162.

    Bruce S

    July 21, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Martin – July 21, 2011 | 3:52 pm · Link

    …As I said before, firebaggers shouldn’t ever have kids because they’re going to have to kill themselves every time their two-year-old says ‘I hate you’.

    I don’t know – I think reading the comments of the folks who rely on “firebaggers” as their catch-all tag here is pretty good practice for that. If I couldn’t stand a “two-year-old saying ‘I hate you'”, I wouldn’t ever venture into the ABL threads with any critical comments, because that’s pretty much all the responses feel like.

  163. 163.

    Dave

    July 21, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Dan Pfeiffer shot this down fast. So let’s wait and see what happens.

  164. 164.

    Suffern ACE

    July 21, 2011 at 4:39 pm

    @Cain – unfortunately, we are all Americans here. There is no bottom to the outrage quarry. We do mountaintop removal by the spadeful.

  165. 165.

    NonyNony

    July 21, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    @Han’s Big Snark Solo

    I live in Texas. I’m fairly sure calling my Senators is a Capital crime here, unless I’m calling to insist that government keep it’s hands off my Medicare.

    Right NOW is the time to call your Republican Senators and insist that they keep the government off of your grandma’s Medicare/Social Security checks.

    Seriously. Don’t go overboard with the melodrama, and don’t misrepresent yourself, but throwing a few digs about keeping the government out of grandma’s Social Security checks and a few digs on using grandma’s money to pay off bankers is warranted. There’s no problem using Tea Party rhetoric against them.

    Also throw in a bit about how Ronald Reagan would never have been so irresponsible as to have the country not pay the bills. Throw in some patriotism and some calls to how great the state of Texas is and why is my Senator condoning this kind of deadbeat behavior and some simple-minded “if my family tried to shirk their duty to pay bills like this I’d be arrested” wails.

    Because seriously – this shit works for the Tea Party rubes and if you’re stuck with a Republican Senator you might as well see if you can confuse ’em a bit about their own rhetoric.

  166. 166.

    Poopyman

    July 21, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    @Chopper:

    Uh, yeah. Just make sure you and your wife work this out beforehand.

  167. 167.

    Pat

    July 21, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Glenn makes Obots day in the Guardian:

    “Therein lies one of the most enduring attributes of Obama’s legacy: in many crucial areas, he has done more to subvert and weaken the left’s political agenda than a GOP president could have dreamed of achieving. So potent, so overarching, are tribal loyalties in American politics that partisans will support, or at least tolerate, any and all policies their party’s leader endorses – even if those policies are ones they long claimed to loathe.

    This dynamic has repeatedly emerged in numerous contexts. Obama has continued Bush/Cheney terrorism policies – once viciously denounced by Democrats – of indefinite detention, renditions, secret prisons by proxy, and sweeping secrecy doctrines.

    He has gone further than his predecessor by waging an unprecedented war on whistleblowers, seizing the power to assassinate U.S. citizens without due process far from any battlefield, massively escalating drone attacks in multiple nations, and asserting the authority to unilaterally prosecute a war (in Libya) even in defiance of a Congressional vote against authorising the war.

    And now he is devoting all of his presidential power to cutting the entitlement programmes that have been the defining hallmark of the Democratic party since Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal. The silence from progressive partisans is defeaning – and depressing, though sadly predictable.

  168. 168.

    chopper

    July 21, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    @77:

    As I said before, firebaggers shouldn’t ever have kids because they’re going to have to kill themselves every time their two-year-old says ‘I hate you’.

    never mind having to deal with the fact that their kid won’t do everything perfectly right according to their specifications. firebaggers are the jewish mothers of modern liberal politics.

  169. 169.

    Linda Featheringill

    July 21, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    @chopper:

    you don’t haggle for carpets like this, tim. your wife haggles while you stand next to her jumping up and down screaming “WHAT ARE YOU DOING? YOU’RE QUEERING THE DEAL! WE’RE SCREWED!”

    LOL!

    Neighbors?

  170. 170.

    cleek

    July 21, 2011 at 4:44 pm

    @Rome Again:

    Obama knew they wouldn’t accept it, because the word compromise is a dirty word among the Tea Party faction .

    i’m not sure it’s polite language here, either. if all the foot stomping and gnashing of teeth is any indication…

  171. 171.

    cleek

    July 21, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    @Pat:
    Greenwald is a moron.

  172. 172.

    Stuckinred

    July 21, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    Dennis. And as cannon cocker that was 2 clicks south of the Imjin I provisionally agreed. There was very little between us and Joe.

  173. 173.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    July 21, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    The silence from progressive partisans is defeaning –

    Christ, does Greenwald ever watch TV or read anything but his own writing? Though I guess that would take up most of his waking hours.

  174. 174.

    slag

    July 21, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    @freelancer: Oh yeah! Thanks for that trip down the memory hole. It was a good one too. So good that I’m actually quite disappointed in myself for forgetting that one.

    Although, I’m still curious about this carpet haggling business…but I’ll just chalk it up to Tim F’s assuming the metaphor works better if he tells it in first person.

  175. 175.

    bemused

    July 21, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    When in danger,
    when in doubt,
    run in circles,
    scream and shout.

  176. 176.

    Dennis SGMM

    July 21, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    @Bruce S:

    I don’t know – I think reading the comments of the folks who rely on “firebaggers” as their catch-all tag here is pretty good practice for that.

    Although I’ve worked, and continue to work, Democratic GOTV efforts for more than four decades I’ve been called a firebagger on these pages. I would have loved to have had the help of those same staunch upholders of the Democratic party with phone banking and going door-to-door here in CA-26 prior to the 2010 general but I guess they had other priorities.

  177. 177.

    General Stuck

    July 21, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    The silence from progressive partisans is defeaning – and depressing, though sadly predictable.

    Well, yea. When all twelve of them are huddled in Jane’s basement with a bag of blow and a laptop.

  178. 178.

    Bruce S

    July 21, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    Honestly, while I don’t agree with Greenwald’s hyperbole, I’d would hate it if there was no one out there on the left who was engaged in this kind of red-flag waving and rhetorical over-kill. It’s absolutely essential in the current political climate.

    The irony is that he’s no more hyperbolic than the average ABL fan here (see Stuck #179) when confronted with anything resembling a counter-argument to total complacency and either tortured apologetics (“cuts” doesn’t mean “cuts”) or something approaching lock-step – not with the broadly liberal wing of the Democratic Party, the liberal congressional leadership and their coalition among the grassroots and the POV of the most reliable Democratic voters – but with the White House.

  179. 179.

    Tonal Crow

    July 21, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Wingers are telling Congress and Obama what they think, every day, day in and day out.

    Maybe we should do that, too.

  180. 180.

    Bruce S

    July 21, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    178 – Dennis SGMM: You are correct, Sir!

  181. 181.

    boss bitch

    July 21, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    ZOMG!!

    Chuck Todd:

    Cong Dem leaders (both chambers) have been summoned for a WH meeting at 530p today, sources tell me.

  182. 182.

    chopper

    July 21, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    @175:

    Christ, does Greenwald ever watch TV or read anything but his own writing? Though I guess that would take up most of his waking hours.

    what i do know is that like ed begley he drives an electric car powered by his own sense of self-satisfaction.

  183. 183.

    Dennis SGMM

    July 21, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    @Bruce S:
    Thank you. Being a Democrat in CA-26 is not for the fainthearted. Our Rep is, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, the execrable David Dreier. Although I sometimes feel like Don Quixote I’m hoping to eventually wear the bastards down.

  184. 184.

    boss bitch

    July 21, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    @Pat:

    Obot says, “meh” Nothing new there – ‘its all Obama’s fault, Obama worse than Bush, Obama’s an imperialist.’ Add a heaping spoon of hyperbole and big words and BAM! a nice check for saying the same shit over and over.

  185. 185.

    Trurl

    July 21, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    ha ha… Keep it up, ‘bots. Keep bitching about Greenwald and Hamsher while your hero is busy selling you out as hard and as fast as he can.

    If he ever bothered to note your existence, how he would laugh at your pathetic gullibility!

  186. 186.

    Norwonk

    July 21, 2011 at 5:05 pm

    I think we can all agree that this must be the fault of Jane Hamsher. Or maybe Glenn Greenwald. Or those dastardly liberals and progressives.

  187. 187.

    Jay B.

    July 21, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Obama knew they wouldn’t accept it, because the word compromise is a dirty word among the Tea Party faction .

    So, let’s see, if logic serves me here…carry the one…then why bother trying to appease them at all? If they won’t bend, and no one seems to think they will, who gives a fuck? Why offer them anything at all? You do all this make them look unreasonable? They do that to themselves every day of the week. If he can write off 100 tea baggers in the House, then they should be negotiating a lot more on the Democratic side of the “bargain”, because they’ll need them more than the people who’ll never vote for it.

    To stave off a Constitutional crisis and world ruin, they need what, 50 Republicans? He should get his pals Jamie Dimon, Bob Rubin and the rest of those scum-sucking assholes to buy off/threaten/cajole the 50 Republicans. They can probably find that many to suck it up for “the greater good” and a big fucking paycheck on the off chance some Club for Growth fucker wins a primary against them.

    That or demand a clean bill for vote. You know, to stave off catastrophe.

    But they won’t because they haven’t. Instead, they’ll keep talking about the need to slash government in a shitty economy and how right people are to be concerned about spending. So yeah, we’ll need to cut and raise taxes because this has something to do with the full faith and credit of the United States.

    Never let a crisis go to waste!

    They’ve either been bullied or suckered into making the Republican case or they agree with it (*but with an extra layer of opaque opposite day we don’t really mean it, no backsies).

    This entire thing — from the GOP’s suicide squad to Obama’s mystifying acceptance of tying in deficit spending with the debt ceiling instead of you know, making a better case — is a study in SHITTY governance. I mean awful, stupid, cynical, meanspirited and hateful governance. $4 fucking trillion in cuts is the Administration’s stated goal. And that’s ok because it’s a crisis.

    Awful.

  188. 188.

    Dennis SGMM

    July 21, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    @boss bitch:
    Obot says, “Obama promises that if we all mutilate our genitals things will be much, much, better.”
    Obot says, “Grab a knife.”

    The trick is to be hopeful but watchful. Obama is a politician – not a superhero.

  189. 189.

    Pat

    July 21, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    @boss bitch @cleek – Nice try but your cute grade-school name calling doesn’t change the truth. Obama has destroyed the Democratic brand that took 75 years to shape. The Blind Obedience League knows it, you just can’t admit that you’re all sleeping(in urine-soaked sheets) with the blue dogs and wingnuts now.

  190. 190.

    Pat

    July 21, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    @Trurl – No shite

  191. 191.

    General Stuck

    July 21, 2011 at 5:21 pm

    Obot says, “Obama promises that if we all mutilate our genitals things will be much, much, better.”
    Obot says, “Grab a knife

    Stupid comment

  192. 192.

    Dennis SGMM

    July 21, 2011 at 5:27 pm

    @General Stuck:
    Only if you selectively omit the entirety of it. Nothing like the zealotry of the newly converted. I’d enjoy debating “stupid” with you because you’re obviously an authority.

  193. 193.

    jim filyaw

    July 21, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    for a supposed hard-core, socialist, marxist, pinko collectivist, when it comes to bargaining with the repubs, obama folds like a cheap tent.

  194. 194.

    JC

    July 21, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    When did BJ get so stupid as to not care about facts.

    Come on people, spending so much time in this ‘obot-firebagger’ discussion, and it’s a waste of pixels, a waste of gray matter.

    Obama DID say, back during the grand bargain, that the Rethugs would never hold the credit of the U.S. as hostage.

    He was wrong. That’s a fact. Not a chess master move.

    Obama genius chess moves didn’t do much to retain the House in 2010. That also is true.

    Obama HAS advance quite a lot of liberal priorities, making life better for millions of people.

    That’s a fact. He is liberal, in this sense. So all of this suspicious paranoia that Obama is a ‘sellout’ is STUPID. (Except with his banker backers, there, he sold some.)

    The only interesting question is, politically, is he being rolled?

    That is the point that Tom Tomorrow makes.

    And I like Fallow’s series of posts on this question.

    EDIT: Also, can he NOT get rolled, successfully? Given the weakness of the economy, given the willingness/blindness of the Rethugs to harm the U.S. economically, given the pass the media give the Rethugs, as well as the Beltway, and the overt cheerleading by the right wing noise machine.

  195. 195.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 21, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    I’m already outraged about the NEXT unsourced rumor!

  196. 196.

    les

    July 21, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    Now here’s a bottle of Liquid Plumb’r and a straw. Do the right thing.

    I can haz borrowing privileges?

  197. 197.

    Brachiator

    July 21, 2011 at 5:47 pm

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    I’ve got that wallet in my pocket.

    You got Obama’s wallet? The Wolf will be after your ass.

    Even More Pedantically yours, Brachiator

    Glenn makes Obots day in the Guardian: “Therein lies one of the most enduring attributes of Obama’s legacy: in many crucial areas, he has done more to subvert and weaken the left’s political agenda than a GOP president could have dreamed of achieving.

    If ever there was a journalist consumed with a sense of his own self-importance.

    The idea is not simply to push the left’s agenda, and certainly not to make lefties happy. The idea is to transform progressive ideas into effective public policy, where appropriate. Just because it’s been blessed by the left does not make it great, without need for compromise or modification.

  198. 198.

    Pat

    July 21, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    *(Except with his banker backers, there, he sold some.)*

    Little bit pregnant, eh?

  199. 199.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 21, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    The silence from progressive partisans is defeaning – and depressing, though sadly predictable.

    Glenn Greenwald representing himself as the one lonely outpost of truthful complaint? Pathbreaking.

  200. 200.

    General Stuck

    July 21, 2011 at 5:54 pm

    Only if you selectively omit the entirety of it. Nothing like the zealotry of the newly converted. I’d enjoy debating “stupid” with you because you’re obviously an authority.

    I’m afraid I might call you a firebagger, and then you would pen a whiny whine about how the obots are mean and call you bad names. Well, boo fucking hoo

    I been doing this for years, and get called everything but a milk cow, on a daily basis, half the time on threads I’m not even on. and not once have I wrote a whiny comment about it.

    My comment to you is that you are full of shit with that comment from my remarks. It is fatalistic fuckwads like you that are using the knives on themselves, and anyone that might get too close.

    And pulling rank about all your great dem works, and throwing up the Vietnam experience as some kind of blanket protection of yourself, is fairly loathsome thing to do. The vets I know and respect, don’t use that as a weapon in a debate. But you do.

    And as far as Obama goes, you know what I think of you in that department. Now go back to sucking yer thumb for comfort.

  201. 201.

    Peter

    July 21, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    I gotta say, watching this shit unfold from up here in Canada is pretty frustrating. If the Republicans blow up the economy, we get fucked up here too…but there’s nothing I can do to affect it. I can’t call my member of congress because I don’t have one. I can’t donate money to ActBlue or the party or anything.

    And that’s all as it should be, I’d be rather cheesed if a bunch of Americans started meddling with our political process, too. But it’s still frustrating to be stuck watching a potential trainwreck in progress, helpless to actually affect the outcome.

    All of this is to say: for those of you who CAN donate money and call your members of Congress and otherwise affect the political discourse, even a little, please, PLEASE do so. I won’t even complain about you hyperventilating over every unsourced rumor if you do your hyperventilating into the ear of someone at your Congressperson’s ear, where it might do some good.

  202. 202.

    les

    July 21, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    Glenn makes Obots day in the Guardian: “Therein lies one of the most enduring attributes of Obama’s legacy: in many crucial areas, he has done more to subvert and weaken the left’s political agenda than a GOP president could have dreamed of achieving.

    How am I supposed to respect anything this guy (or his acolytes here) say, after this? I remember Nixon–among other despicable acts, he deliberately sabotaged peace talks for domestic political gain, in a war that makes Afghanistan look like Reagan’s Grenada. Ronnie Raygun deliberately set out to, and largely succeeded, destroy faith in government. And has he forgotten Bush II, whose misrule put us in the shithole Obama is supposed to magically get us out of? And the alternative was McCain/Palin, for fuck’s sake. Greenwald is supposed to be someone whose judgement I should respect?

    My fucking god, bash the man’s policies where you don’t like ’em, I surely do; argue for policies you do like; but the kind of demonization that currently passes for “progressive criticism” just begs for the pie filter. It is absolutely no better than the teabaggers–over the top, black and white, untethered to reality bullshit.

  203. 203.

    boss bitch

    July 21, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    @Dennis SGMM:

    Obot says, “Obama promises that if we all mutilate our genitals things will be much, much, better.”
    Obot says, “Grab a knife.”

    Stupid Comment.

    @Pat:

    Nice try but your cute grade-school name calling doesn’t change the truth. Obama has destroyed the Democratic brand that took 75 years to shape. The Blind Obedience League knows it, you just can’t admit that you’re all sleeping(in urine-soaked sheets) with the blue dogs and wingnuts now.

    Evem dumber.

  204. 204.

    MP

    July 21, 2011 at 7:06 pm

    Just to bag on TPM for a second (because everyone’s doing it.)

    I’ve been a fan since the beginning. I even GAVE them money when they first started.

    But, if this were Yelp, and I could get some things off my chest, they be:

    1. Almost no posts on weekends or anything, frankly, beyond what seems like the 9:30 EST to 4:00 EST M-F timeslot.

    2. Posts that continue on another page. Especially ones that continue on another page, but only for another paragraph.

    3. Any post that has “The Big Tell” in it is now overused. What, are they all playing poker over there?

    4. Any post that gets gets convoluted in its explanation, only to at the end, say, “Or, to put it another way…” is now overused.

    5. Links to a video with no description. Many people are at work, on cellphones, etc. and can’t watch the video.

    6. Links to a video with a half-hearted description that ultimately just says, “just go watch the video.”

    7. Lack of followups. How many “big tells” were there in the past month? 12? Did any of them actually become true? If so, they should brag about it. If not, maybe they should stop saying what the big tell is.

    8. The comments on TPM always have a Teabagger comment in the first 1-2 comments that ultimately hijacks the conversation. Can’t they weed these people out? By IP address? Can they institute a Vote Up / Down system?

    9. I get the feeling that TPM is a great place to start a career — great journalists have worked there, only to move on. I think that makes TPM churn a bit, or tread water.

    10. TPM was always great for two things – overall observations, context from a more centrist, pragmatic beltway viewpoint combined with some old-school truly investigative work. That investigative work has been declining and the observations more infrequent and a bit lazier.

    11. Maybe they should take a page from DK playbook and make Sundays a “Feature” day. Or at least comment on the Sunday political shows.

    And yet. I still go there everyday. Several times.

  205. 205.

    OzoneR

    July 21, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Have you read Lyndon Johnson: Master of the Senate?

    Indeed I have, and because I did, I also am aware that most of that browbeating accomplished absolutely nothing, and was done to liberals like Theodore Green who wouldn’t accept compromises.

  206. 206.

    Trurl

    July 21, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    And the alternative was McCain/Palin, for fuck’s sake

    In all seriousness, you can just write that and omit the rest. That is literally the only argument you have at the end of the day.

    But your man renders the point moot.

    He has increased spying on you. He has slaughtered thousands of innocent human beings. [Muslims, I know… but still.] He is waging a war of regime change in an oil-exporting Muslim country in knowing violaton of the War Powers Act.

    And at the very moment you read this, he will be trying to force Republicans to let him cut Social Security.

    He is Insufficiently Less Evil.

  207. 207.

    gpleigh

    July 21, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    This is TPM’s stock and trade. Keep falling for it and clicking away. Josh has a couple of kids to send to college.

  208. 208.

    FlipYrWhig

    July 21, 2011 at 7:26 pm

    @ MP:

    TPM was always great for two things – overall observations, context from a more centrist, pragmatic beltway viewpoint combined with some old-school truly investigative work. That investigative work has been declining and the observations more infrequent and a bit lazier.

    I have wondered if that trend (which I also noticed) is a symptom of the site’s success. When you have contacts, you can ring up your contacts, find out what the rumor du jour is, and then pass it along. When you don’t, you have to do things like closely read official statements and carefully piece together a bit from account A and another bit from account B. I don’t think they do that anymore. That’s where the laziness shows, both at TPM and at all the traditional media outlets.

  209. 209.

    chopper

    July 21, 2011 at 7:42 pm

    @191:

    the Democratic brand that took 75 years to shape.

    jesus, i spit out my beer at that. bravo, sir.

  210. 210.

    chopper

    July 21, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    @208:

    lol, to you obama really is the evil guy from the movies twirling his mustache, isn’t he?

  211. 211.

    Smiling Mortician

    July 21, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    FWIW, I called my congressman’s local office to go on record in favor of increased revenue over decreased spending if the Grand Bargain is still happening and in favor of NOT letting the republicans stick an M-80 in the economy’s mouth if it’s not. The staffer I talked to sounded somewhat less than excited, so I asked if I was boring him. “No, no,” he said. “It’s just that you’re saying the same thing I’ve been hearing all day.” Yeah, I live in a fairly blue working-class district, but we’ve got our share of teabagnuts, so . . . at this point it seems like they’re hearing more often from the good guys. So there’s that.

  212. 212.

    Bob Natas

    July 21, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Obama HAS advance quite a lot of liberal priorities, making life better for millions of people

    This is an interesting point, and one that I have thought a lot about myself lately.

    The main thing about Obama (and the procedural liberal movement which backs him) is that they “advance” an agenda that is already uncontroversial. Take things like DADT. If it were 1993, Obama wouldn’t be challenging this. It took years of work by activists to alter the zeitgeist in such a way as to make his pronouncements on this issue possible, indeed inevitable.

    Years ago, procedural liberalism formed the basis for a stable technocratic government, but it doesn’t “advance” anything. It can’t. It ratifies the non threatening aspects of movements, and limits the threatening aspects of those same movements. It isn’t enough anymore.

  213. 213.

    burnspbesq

    July 21, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    @Trurl:

    It must be a gas living in fantasy land.

    Here it is, all in one place for you:

    Obama is as good as it gets. No one that could have gotten elected could have done more to advance what you claim is your agenda. Anyone else would have been much, much worse. Your beliefs ARE NOT THE BELIEFS OF MAINSTREAM AMERICAN VOTERS, so all you will ever get is crumbs unless you actively participate in the changing of millioms of minds. I think that sucks, but there it is. Either get off your ass and do something about it, or shut the fuck up. Your schtick is past its sell-by date.

  214. 214.

    stinkdaddy

    July 22, 2011 at 2:21 am

    No one that could have gotten elected could have done more to advance what you claim is your agenda.

    You don’t know that.

    Anyone else would have been much, much worse.

    Or that.

    unless you actively participate in the changing of millioms of minds.

    Assuming he isn’t already.

    Either get off your ass

    Another thing you don’t know.

    Maybe Hillary would’ve been a little better, maybe a lot better, maybe worse. You don’t know and you should stop pretending otherwise, because speaking of schticks “this is the best of all possible worlds so shut up and stop rocking the boat” and “I disagree with you on the internet and therefore know how you spend your time when you aren’t posting here” are both pretty god-damned obnoxious.

  215. 215.

    Mike M

    July 22, 2011 at 6:09 am

    Deep deep down in the place you rarely acknowledge and almost never tell anyone about, you knew this was going to happen right? I mean the Republicans knew. Why else would they even put up the appearance of defying their corporate masters?

  216. 216.

    harlana

    July 22, 2011 at 6:14 am

    You know, at this point, I don’t give a fuck what is the substance of a “deal” unless it involves at least a modest tax increase on those making $1 mil and up and NO cuts to the Big Three.

    These fuckers, republicans and dems, have been letting the public twist in the wind, scaring seniors, the disabled and parents of children who cannot afford medical insurance, and EVERYBODY who has been suffering the last few years, WHO ARE TERRIFIED about their future, and the unemployed who have no hope, NEED HOPE and encouragement.

    I am sick to death of this sick, fucked-up psychological game on average Americans and the American poor. I don’t give a shit about substance anymore, just STOP IT. People are starving and dying out here in the real world!! People are losing their homes! STOP this ridiculous, extremely harmful, traumatizing drama.

    I realize passion is not welcome here, but fuck it, again, I’m tired of sitting with my arms crossed just passively saying nothing while others are frightened out of their wits.

    9.2% unemployment, economy radically fucked, THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO EVEN TALK ABOUT CUTS to social programs. You’re SCARING people!

    And no, I don’t give a shit whether what I want is unattainable or feasible, I’m going to bitch, whine and moan on behalf of the less fortunate all I like because that’s what we should all be doing, if we had any sense of morality. Fuck civility.

    and Good Morning.

  217. 217.

    harlana

    July 22, 2011 at 6:21 am

    and don’t tell me to shut up and call my senator, because it’s Jim DeMint and my rep is a teabagger. And yes, I did play the activist (so I did my part, not just yelling and screaming) before my economic and unemployment circumstances sucked the life out of my passion to save the world and I had to set my dial on survival mode.

    Thanks for letting me rant. Have a great day.

  218. 218.

    harlana

    July 22, 2011 at 6:39 am

    stinkdaddy: Yeh, another thing I’m sick of. I want to ask these “superior” people, where were you and what were you doing when we were invading Iraq? I know what I was doing and my conscience is clear. Since then, I lost my job and I hope you will forgive me for losing my activist spirit, shutting the fuck up and standing in my little corner like a good girl, like I’ve been told to do by “wiser, cooler heads”.

    Yep, try fighting and scratching to get any kind of employment,for FIVE years (with almost 20 years of experience in your field), praying that someone finds you worthy enough to offer you the medical insurance you desperately need and pay you half of what you used to make. You might get a little tired and a little cranky. Just sayin’

  219. 219.

    Bob Natas

    July 22, 2011 at 7:54 am

    Obama is as good as it gets.

    That is probably true; that is why the radical right is going to the big ones, every time.

    Your beliefs ARE NOT THE BELIEFS OF MAINSTREAM AMERICAN VOTERS

    This is a tired line. The reality: Obama is going to do well by Johnny Lawyer who lives in MOCO, which is why Johnny will support him and tell others to go hang; but the idea that Johnny’s class interests are remotely close to that of most people in the US is the fantasy. This is a reason (though probably not the only reason) why the procedural liberalism of today is going to get cronked: it is relentlessly elitist. The leadership consists mostly of grifters and middlemen who are handsomely rewarded for coming up with the “right” answers. The fact that they are (correctly) regarded as “the best” tells you all you need to know.

  220. 220.

    El Cid

    July 22, 2011 at 8:55 am

    I think it’s pretty impressive that we have to wait until what is, in effect a secret deal, is done to drastically change our national social programs and tax priorities.

    No more stupid old ‘presenting a budget’ and having open Congressional debate and such and a significant period within which it takes place.

    Instead people are debating whether or not to believe various sources regarding what the entire nation will be experiencing based on this pseudo-budget negotiated by whatever small number of Congressional leaders is chosen by the moment.

    And by the time anything concrete is known, it’s pretty much a done deal.

    This is just fantastic. Due to Republican ransom demands, we get to watch decades of policy formation changed within a few weeks.

    So this is why people have to put some sort of “faith” in Obama. Because, you know, fuck our need to know shit before it happen.

  221. 221.

    Pat

    July 22, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Bruce Bartlett:

    Liberals hoped that Obama would overturn conservative policies and launch a new era of government activism. Although Republicans routinely accuse him of being a socialist, an honest examination of his presidency must conclude that he has in fact been moderately conservative to exactly the same degree that Nixon was moderately liberal.

    Here are a few examples of Obama’s effective conservatism:

    His stimulus bill was half the size that his advisers thought necessary;
    He continued Bush’s war and national security policies without change and even retained Bush’s defense secretary;
    He put forward a health plan almost identical to those that had been supported by Republicans such as Mitt Romney in the recent past, pointedly rejecting the single-payer option favored by liberals;
    He caved to conservative demands that the Bush tax cuts be extended without getting any quid pro quo whatsoever;
    And in the past few weeks he has supported deficit reductions that go far beyond those offered by Republicans.

  222. 222.

    Pat

    July 22, 2011 at 10:52 am

    “Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influence, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist.”

Comments are closed.

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  1. Shoot the Hostage | Man Are We Screwed says:
    July 21, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    […] and more I read that Obama really wants the spending cuts. The more this goes on, the more I believe it. The […]

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