Bill Keller has a meandering column that makes a good point: the Murdoch phone-hacking scandal undermines faith in a free press. This isn’t so different from the way in which Republican obstruction undermines faith in government. Or, ever more perversely, the way Jennifer Rubin argues that the right-wing terror attack in Norway is evidence that we need more right-wing security procedures.
This is what scares me most, sometimes, that right-wingers in government will turn the populace into government-fearing glibertarians, that their absurd forays into pseudo-journalism will awaken the Putin in all of us, that their outbursts of violence will lead to a police state, that their xenophobic hatred will lead to more tribal conflict. Then they’ll get their wish, rule by secretive, unaccountable plutocrats who start wars all over the world and deprive citizens of basic civil rights. I can’t claim that all, or even most, conservatives want all of this, but that is what people like Jennifer Rubin and Erick Erickson want, you know.
TooManyJens
I guess? I mean, how many people still had that faith anyway?
Cain
Isn’t free press already undermined? It’s already well known that Fox for instance is not a “fair and balanced” observer. And to a lesser degree, the other networks are as well. It basically comes down to the fact that the horse race is entertainment.
You should check out the movie “Morning Glory” It’s a bit corny but it definitely has some interesting arguments about entertainment and news. Tweety makes a guest appearance somewhere in the middle!
Ol' Dirty DougJ
Our press still functions a lot better than the Russian or Chinese press does.
MikeJ
@Cain:
That doesn’t undermine press freedom though. The media has never been really neutral, going back to pre-revolution times.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Most may not want it, in the conscious choice sense, but most of them I think would be comfortable, because then everyone would know their place and things wouldn’t be unknown.
PIGL
how is this in any way relevant, or even true?
Ol' Dirty DougJ
Why so many rightie trolls today? I like Bender, but the others…
Yutsano
You do realize, of course, that the accusations that we live in that society now will come forth. And that the blame will be placed squarely on the near occupant of the White House.
@Ol’ Dirty DougJ:
We must have been linked somewhere. Rodent copulation has indeed been rampant today.
beltane
BoBo and every other conservative we read and mock also wants this. Maybe the conservatives we don’t hear from are of a better sort.
Punchy
OT: TPM reporting that Reid bill proposed to GOP includes all cuts, no taxes. So there’s that.
In other equally surprising news, Amy Winehouse died and the Royals lost.
Ol' Dirty DougJ
What does Sullivan think about this?
Cain
@Doug
If you want to shine them on, put up the “Chill the fuck out, I got this!” graphic. It’ll drive them nuts, and then the firebaggers will show up too.
Speaking of which I just finished a 25 mile cycle trip (started training yesterday) and this Ford truck(!) had a sticker with a picture of Obama’s head and the “chill the fuck out, I got this”. Made my day. Well almost.. because I then found out that my car that was sitting in the adjacent parking lot was out of battery.. I ahd left the lights on. fuck..
jrg
There’s an assumption here that the result of all this bullshit will be a right-wing revolution. I’m not so sure that will be the case.
There are a lot of “real ‘murica” morons out there that think they are paying in more than they get out. When the shit goes down (tomorrow, at this rate), and the US can’t pay it’s bills, they might be a bit pissed off when grannie’s government cheese doesn’t arrive in the mail on time.
Neither a right wing nor left wing revolution sounds great to me.
me
Didn’t someone here post a link to an article about Leo Strauss that suggested that was his philosophy? That he and his followers as the heirs of Plato were destined to be oligarchs?
Jewish Steel
@Ol’ Dirty DougJ:
Congress wrecking the economy and crimes against humanity in Norway got em all agitated.
Cain
Anybody see the blog ads about some guy selling a book “why liberalism is causing the death of nations” or something like that.. Ah the irony.
Mr Stagger Lee
Jesus, America will turn into a Pinochet’s Chile or the Argentina of the generals, a “free-market” hell were corporations and rich can do whatever and we serfs open our mouths and it is off to the Naval Mechanics School or a one way helicopter flight to the nearest body of water.
Spaghetti Lee
The Reid bill looks like it focuses mostly on cuts in defense and drawdowns in Iraq and Afghanistan (which is, you know, good), and such a bill will never get past the GOP, so I have to wonder if this is more political than policy.
Punchy
I’d have to believe he’d find it insufficient, as it eliminates funding to find the mother of Palin’s child, and seems to ignore the plight of the Georgians.
beltane
@Ol’ Dirty DougJ: The only one who really bugs me is RC because he stalks people in the threads. BO Bill is tolerable because his posts are both atmospheric and bizarre; he is like the Tom Waits of trolls.
Cain
@Spaghetti Lee
Whatever it is.. I’m reasonably sure that we are going to default. Those guys will probably up the ante and ask to just repeal medicare and social security and move them all to market based programs.
Corner Stone
@Mr Stagger Lee:
What do you think is happening with fracking in PA?
That’s just the latest FU to the plebes.
TX Expat
You know, I just can’t get on board with the fear-mongering here. Yeah, maybe, but keep in mind that there are 300 million people in this country. I think it’s much easier to accomplish these goals when you’re working with a few million. Much harder when the populace is large, well-connected and the criminally misinformed nuts are everywhere, not just isolated in one region.
Corner Stone
@Cain:
I’m reasonably sure the deal is already cooked. What we’re seeing now is the offgassing.
Yutsano
@TX Expat: We really are a country that shouldn’t work on paper. We almost failed once. If a fascist regime sprouts up the West will give a big hearty Fuck Off and go its own way. And between California, Oregon, and Washington, we have a shit ton of money to do it.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
The fact that people can’t tell the difference between a free press and the carefully shaped conservospew of VoldeMurdoch, Inc (TM) undermines my faith in homo sapiens.
Mark S.
@beltane:
RC? Not ringing a bell.
TX Expat
@Yutsano:
Better lose Eastern Washington then and large parts of CA as well as eastern OR.
I lived in Seattle for a long time, I’m familiar with this thinking, but you’re only blue on the coast. :)
Jewish Steel
@Yutsano:
What!? Hey, I want to live in United States of Cascadia! Maybe you can get me a green card?
I know the difference between a macchiato and a cortado. See? I even speak the language!
karen marie
jrg: I was talking to some of my neighbors last night who were out stoop-sitting. There was some back and forth about the football contract negotiations and then the topic turned to the debt ceiling and taxes. I mentioned that I believed the effective rate for top incomes was somewhere around 24%. One of the guys said, “Wow, that’s a lot.” I told him he and I were paying somewhere around 30 to 35%. He was shocked, he had no idea. He no longer thinks it’s imperative that we decrease taxes on “job creators” but should in fact raise them.
A little conversation with your neighbors goes a long way.
Yutsano
@TX Expat: Eastern WA can’t survive without Seattle. They know that, and it goads them to no end. Without Seattle, the only major revenue generator east of the Mountains is Hanford. Which is all federal government money. I used to live over there, and Seattle bashing is a contact sport. Eastern Oregon is virtually empty. And if California splits it will do so in too awkward a fashion to be viable.
clayton
Top of memeorandom is Jennifer Rubin.
That’s the way they roll.
Corner Stone
@Yutsano:
“The West”?? Where are you drawing the demarcation for this separation?
Because I see ID, CO, UT, AZ, NV all in that mix in addition to the problems you’d have with the eastern parts of the coastal NW and big chunks of CA.
Cain
@Cornerstone
Bleah, I hope there is some air freshener, I’m not sure what offgassing means, but it seems like a nasty byproduct!
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
Balloonbaggers, sweat not, and rejoice. The new Super Supreme Court, which consists solely of my bad self, Uncle Clarence Thomas, will remedy all of these situations forthwith and immediately. And you, being my bestest friends, will have a silent seat at my feet as I dispense with the justice. I mean “dispense the justice” of course.
.
.
Cain
@Tx Expat:
Don’t count out eastern Oregon yet. Those guys are not that bad. As a darkie wandering out there, I found the people to be awesome. They really treat you well. But then again, I’m not like other Indians either growing up here or coming from abroad.
Of course, I really felt the dumbness when I crossed into Idaho.. it was bizarre. I felt dumber. I don’t really like Idaho.
I love Oregon, even the eastern side and I think while they are “red” they aren’t “tea bagger” red. I think they have honest questions about how to protect their livestock, their town and their culture.
I’ve seen more teabaggery in parts of western cities like Tualatin when going door to door for Obama.
Punchy
Now word is that Boner is demanding a 6-month extension, take it or leave it. Force Obama to veto it, and then blame him. Or have him pass it, then replay this entire shit at Christmas time, when another 6-month extension will suddenly become “the standard”, with all the standard posturing and threats.
TX Expat
@Yutsano:
Yes, I’m familiar with all of these arguments. I guess what I’m trying to convey is that I think this type of talk is silly.
I don’t intend to be rude or offensive to you, I just don’t think of it as a productive conversation in that it’s primarily fantasy. More importantly, it’s a fantasy that prevents people who live in places like Seattle from finding common cause with folks who live in places like where I live now (southern LA).
This is a big country and we’re all in it together despite our disagreements (oft times very deep ones).
scav
@Cain: Offgassing? Isn’t that sometimes that new care smell? Well, that and it’s not doing you or your lungs any good.
Corner Stone
@Mark S.: Commenter “Reality Check”.
The Spy Who Loved Me
I have a hard time associating “faith in a free press” with The News of the World. It’s like saying that The National Enquirer is on the same level as the Times. Shit, TNOTW and the Enquirer are friggin’ tabloids, not newspapers. The comparison is just stupid.
Cain
@Yutsano
The same is true for eastern oregon. They can’t survive without Portland and Salem. They know it.
Yutsano
@TX Expat: Like I said, I used to live on that side. It’s where my parents live. I’m very familiar with their situation and their local issues. The fact is they often do get shafted in Olympia because of sheer population numbers. We have one very big commonality though: we love being from this state and think it’s the most amazing place on the planet. And Seattle needs the east as much as they need us, we are also acutely aware of that. Every state has a link to every other in the union. That’s really why we haven’t come close to flying apart since the Civil War.
Shorter me: no offense taken. :)
The Dangerman
One positive in this mess is that the purely theoretical constructs the Right likes to toss out will be taken out for a real world test drive. Palin/Bachmann/et al like to say that not raising the debt limit won’t create any problems; well, fuck it, let’s find out.
There won’t be a default, but we are blowing buy 8/2 without a deal; this game of chicken is just getting started.
MikeJ
@TX Expat:
We’re only blue where the people are. Washington has 6.5 million. 2 million of that are in King county (Seattle), another million in Peirce county (Tacoma). add in Olympia, Vancouver, Bellingham, all the people are in the liberal part.
Dave C
@ The Spy Who Loved Me:
I think the analogy between the NotW and the National Enquirer is a little off. The NotW was, prior to its demise, the most widely read english language newspaper in the world. The National Enquirer just isn’t in the same league.
Yutsano
@MikeJ: This is mostly true, but even King County has fairly large red areas. It’s split halfway in between business corp type Reps and Jeebus botherers. Ironically there is one county in the east Obama won: that’s mah school right there. Allez le Cougs!
MikeJ
@Yutsano: This is true. The 8th is a thorn in our side, and even the 9th isn’t as liberal as I would like.
scav
@scav: “new care smell”? Love it, but +”a few” clearly equals +e here. Either that, or I’m suddenly coming up with plastic-based health care programs that are eventually deadly to users. I think carpets, like many new politicians, outgas too.
If only a view of the water increased sanity in WA. Poor sister in dealing with some scary neighbors around Camano Island.
Comrade Luke
You know what else undermines faith in a free press?
Having Judith Miller on your payroll.
Cain
@Yutsano:
The northwest is one awesome place ain’t it? Red or Blue. I think you’ll be happy to know that in oregon, we’ve finally started doing bipartisan stuff, and thank god for that.
The radio show “Thank out lout” had both Republicans and Democrats on the show talking about education. But it wasn’t about us vs them it was both them talking about how important it is to fund education. This is the kind of political climate we should be having.
Instead of the stupid one about wiping everything out. Really..
Ol' Dirty DougJ
Howell Raines almost drove that paper into the ground. That’s why I can’t get with all the Bill Keller hate — he’s got it back on a reasonable track.
Frank
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SiubhanDuinne
Speaking of the west coast, Nancy SMASH! has called for an ethics investigation of Rep. David Wu.
I’m disappointed when Democrats behave badly, but thank FSM the Dem leadership deals with stuff instead of being all ostrich-y or making lame excuses like the folks across the aisle
ETA: Not familiar with Wu or the charges against him; I’m speaking generally, not expressing an opinion on this particular situation.
stickler
Not to pile on with the Washington-love, but Yutsano is right: Washington (and Oregon, and probably Gullyvornya too) is pretty complicated.
Spokane is a deep-red, union-labor town. Less union, I suppose, since the aluminum smelters shut down ten years ago. But still: Spoklahoma isn’t much different from Pittsburgh. Abortion is bad, but union-busting could get your neck punched.
Similarly, both Seattle and Portland have some very GOP-friendly suburbs that can’t be taken for granted. In both states (more so Oregon) the GOP weakness in the urban areas has been exaggerated by the fact they’ve nominated utter incompetent tools for statewide office lately.
And Gullyvornya? Who the hell knows.
Carl Nyberg
The post 9/11 world has made me understand how progressives could embrace someone like Huey Long.
Yutsano
@SiubhanDuinne:
Cain could answer this better as an Oregonian, but the extreme gist: Wu slept with the 18 year old daughter of one of his constituents while still married and possibly while she was still underage.
fuckwit
I have a German-ancestry friend who was arguing with me about the rule of law and the need for the law to be precise and exact, and everyone to understand its letter and spirit as well, blah blah blah.
I just looked at him like he was fucking nuts. Then I pointed out that corporate lobbyists LITERALLY WRITE THE LAWS, hand them to their paid fucking whores in Congress, already written, to pass, and then the whores pass it, and then the police enforces it. That’s the “spirit and letter” of the law.
That took the wind out of his silly argument. I mean, seriously, in AMERICA, the law, and the government, is a tool of corporations and the rich to rob the poor. That’s what this country is.
I suggested, if he really wanted to live in a place where the law was there to build a well-ordered and functional society, he should try to get him some German citizenship and go move there. Like, right the fuck now. Because I was tired of hearing his ivory-tower prattle.
stickler
SiubhanDuinne:
Rep. Wu is one odd duck. I’m in the next OR district over, and we can’t make head or tail out of what he’s been up to. He’s been in DC forever, but hasn’t actually accomplished much. And starting last fall, he’s been doing a slow implosion personally (mass resignations from his staff just before the election, admissions that he’s mis-used antidepressants, etc.).
Nancy SMASH! is said to have advised him to depart gracefully at his earliest convenience. I’d like to believe that he’s also found a severed horse’s head in his bed.
MikeJ
@Yutsano: :
Everything up until the underage was a yawner, although maybe not to his wife.
If he slept with an underaged girl, there are laws against that. It shouldn’t be the ethics committee dealing with him, it should be the criminal justice system.
WaterGirl
@ Yutsano
I read that last part and thought “oh, that’s a problem.”
What is wrong with these people? Do they check their morals and ethics in the coatroom?
SiubhanDuinne
Thanks to the Oregonians for info on Wu. It seems now that he’s saying he will not resign but also will not run in 2012.
I expect that will change . . . .
Yutsano
@WaterGirl: There is actually a history of Wu having some mental health issues as well. My guess is things are just coming to a head for him.
RalfW
There’s a convoluted “what if” at Frum Forum this evening that tries, very lamely, to point out that some day Dems can screw the GOP by the same tactics as today.
If this is the best that ‘sane’ conservatives can come up with, there really is no hope of reform of cons by cons. Pitchforks may become necessary.
stickler
SiubhanDuinne:
I think Wu got a lot of slack because he’s Chinese ancestry and there haven’t been many of them in the US House; plus, until 2010, he was a pretty good campaigner and really made folks feel like he was listening to them. He was wonky on trade policy and generally hit the kinds of buttons Willamette Valley voters wanted pushed. His district is pretty blue but not slam-dunk so, thus his victories earned him some credit.
But the Wu news since last October has been nothing but bad, in a slow-car-wreck kind of way. An underage girl? Daughter of a fund-raiser? That’s going to be hard to wish away, on top of the other crazy stories. I’d bet that his meeting with the Minority Leader of the House was … um … pointed. And frank. And I’d bet he’s not going to be in office until 2012, either.
WaterGirl
@ Yutsano
Wow. I’d like to see something like a personal ad from these congresscritters that they have to submit when they run for congress.
30-year old male with mental health issues and incredibly poor judgment, somewhat inclined toward committing statutory rape (or wearing wetsuits) seeking position as your congressperson from xxx.
Yutsano
@RalfW: Lawd. Can we ship him back to Canada now? He’d love the place, it has a Conservative majority and everything.
@WaterGirl: There’s a Mad Libs joke in here somewhere, but I just don’t have the wherewithal to come up with it.
stickler
Yee-owtch. Over on BlueOregon.com, the latest is very much not good for Rep. Wu. Oregon Democrats are ripping him apart.
So Representative Wu will probably be spending time with his family fairly soon. Why does personal accountability only apply to Democrats?
Yutsano
@stickler:
Right in the middle of a messy divorce (which may or may not be related as it was initiated in 2009) so there goes that plan.
Sly
Not likely. Libertarianism deals far too much in abstracts to ever be a viable mass movement. Such movements are always built around demands for tangential changes, not nebulous concepts of “freedom” that have little meaning to the average person.
It’s kind of like Marxism in the 20s. They couldn’t appeal to laborers who were working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week in a death trap factory or coal mine based on abstract notions of proletarian solidarity and ownership over the means of production. The political mobilization of the working classes were based around solid, material demands; shorter work week, better conditions, better pay, etc.
What does libertarianism offer in that respect? Virtually nothing; you have to parse everything through the libertarian decoder ring to find an answer to any pertinent question. The easy answers are all to questions no one really gives a shit about. “The EPA tells you how much water you can have in your toilet. TYRANNY!”
Conservatism has similar problems, but is able to surmount them through nationalistic appeals to a common (and wholly fabricated) identity, which demands the uncritical preservation of institutional power in order to give that identity meaning and keep it secure.
Canuckistani Tom
57 @Yutsano
It’s stuff like this that I was referring to the other day in my question on expelling members from a party.
So, Wu could not be kicked out of the Democratic party and forced to sit as an independent, while an investigation is made into the charges?
Yutsano
@Canuckistani Tom:
No. The investigation will still go forward, but he is allowed to claim himself a Democrat as long as he materially supports the party. And keep in mind even independents down here have to decide who to caucus with. Bernie Sanders is an independent, for example, yet he still caucuses with the Democrats.
Citizen_X
IF YOU LOVE RAIN.
Yutsano
@Citizen_X:
:: snicker ::
Okay then. :)
/still recovering from the 82 degree sunny day.
Johnny Lewis
Since the Times didn’t publish my comment I’ll do it here if you don’t mind.
@nytkeller:
Judith Miller being jailed? You really want to go there?
I am pretty sure the NYT’s enabling Miller, an unfettered war-mongering propagandist of a hack, did much more damage to the institution of journalism than her jailing. There is a huge swath of my cynicism I can attribute to that sad chapter of journalism.
kay
Absolutely. Agreed.
I think the column is absolutely clueless. He doesn’t understand what bothers people about the Murdoch scandal. What bothers them, what undermines faith in a free press, is that elite people in media joined with elite people in the state (politicians) and used police to use ordinary people for their own ends. That’s why the public didn’t object to Murdoch’s criminality as long as his targets were celebrities or his friends in government. It was when he went further, and started breaking into regular people’s private communications that the public got angry.
Which, incidentally, is exactly what Judith Miller did. Judith Miller wasn’t a watchdog. Judith Miller’s relationship with the Bush Administration wasn’t adversarial or even arms-length. Judith Miller may as well have been on the Bush Administration payroll. It would have been better for the public had she been on the payroll, because at least then they would have had some protection or recourse or transparency mechanism.
Miller joined with government, and the losers, the outsiders, the people who weren’t clued in or in the know were the public.
I didn’t think the feds should go after Murdoch, but now I do, because Keller and Company don’t get it. What we’re worried about is that the media are in cahoots with powerful people in business and government. That there’s two teams, (vast) us and (elite) them, and media are in the “them” column.
kay
The funniest part is that Rupert Murdoch gets what Keller doesn’t. That’s why Murdoch was telling his PR people he wanted to fly commercial, so he would look like a “man of the people”.
chopper
@Spaghetti Lee 17:
just wait til the green Ford Falcon makes a comeback. shudder.
William Hurley
In marketing, it’s a programmatic component known as “educating the customer”.
Please try to keep up.