(Jeff Danziger’s website)
__
According to the NYTimes, “Boehner & Reid Prepare Rival Debt Plans“:
… Mr. Reid, the Senate’s top Democrat, was trying on Sunday to cobble together a plan to raise the government’s debt limit by $2.4 trillion through the 2012 elections, with spending cuts of about $2.7 trillion that would not touch any of the entitlement programs that are dear to Democrats or raise taxes, which is anathema to Republicans…
__
At the White House on Sunday evening, Mr. Obama spent about an hour meeting in the Oval Office to try to hash out details of the Democratic proposal with Mr. Reid and the House Democratic leader, Nancy Pelosi. The two emerged from the meeting with nothing to say to the throngs of reporters who had been encamped there for the third consecutive weekend, awaiting an agreement on the debt ceiling.
__
But administration and Congressional officials said that during the meeting, Mr. Obama and the Democratic leaders had resolved to hold firm against any short-term agreement that did not raise the debt ceiling beyond next year’s presidential elections. […] __
The contours of Mr. Boehner’s backup plan were not entirely clear, but it seemed likely to take the form of a two-step process, with about $1 trillion in cuts, an amount the Republicans said was sufficient to clear the way for a debt limit increase through year’s end. That would be followed by future cuts guided by a new legislative commission that would consider a broader range of trims, program overhauls and revenue increases…
__
One freshman lawmaker on the call described Mr. Boehner as sounding weary and said many Republicans were focused on some version of a balanced budget amendment, which was already passed by the House as part of broader legislation but then rejected by the Senate.
Shorter Orange John: I got a caucus full of nothin’, and the chomp marks all over my ankles to prove it.
Meanwhile, the Washington Post, in its capacity as the broadsheet for a company town whose product is politics, has had a user poll up since late Friday asking Which leader is most at fault for the latest breakdown in debt talks?. Consensus of 46,373 voters allocates Obama 15%, Boehner/Cantor/McConnell 82%, Reid/Pelosi/Other 2%. In other words, the Repubs haven’t even managed to hold onto the stalwarts of the Crazification Factor!
Cliff in NH
Here is a sleeping dog, enjoi.
http://mollymaesden.blogspot.com/2011/07/zzzzzz.html
Yutsano
Ugh. I’m getting close to just pull the damn trigger territory.
Katharsis
I don’t comment a lot here, but this link deserves it’s own Open Thread! Enjoy Balloon Juice:
http://youtu.be/cW9dxFrAk-I
The whole thing is sweet, but part of it is hard to hear:
Elizabelle
Russell Brand tribute to Amy Winehouse in The Guardian.
He can turn a phrase.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman?intcmp=239
Spaghetti Lee
I voted in that poll, and I’m pretty surprised it hadn’t been freeped to high hell, or at least, like you said, bore evidence of the Crazy 27%. If the public ends up mostly blaming the Republicans for this mess (as of course, they damn well should), that would be a short-term silver lining and could be useful come 2012.
dead existentialist
Anne Laurie.
You don’t understand what “open thread” means, do you?
suzanne
I want to trade Eric Cantor for Amy Winehouse.
Comrade Kevin
Someone drown Norquist in that vat of kool-aid, quick.
Cliff in NH
@dead existentialist:
Fixt.
Anne Laurie
Dead ex: On this blog, in my posts, it means “Feel free to bring up different topics, alert us to new information, talk about what’s going on in your life, chat amongst yourselves… or bitch about my failure to meet your standards of the perfect Platonic open thread.” Satisfied?
Yutsano
@dead existentialist: It is not at all unusual for a FPer here to theme an open thread post. But in no way does this limit the conversation on said post. Which if you pay attention, happens all the damn time here.
@Anne Laurie: :: applause ::
SIA
And that’s the first decent news I’ve heard all weekend.
KG
I don’t know if it’s the writer or the Congressman that needs to brush up on the Constitution (probably both), but no balanced budget amendment has passed the House. You need two-thirds of each house to vote to ratify. The vote was party line, and last I checked the GOP didn’t win that big
ppcli
No doubt 10% of the 82% who blame Boehner/Cantor/McConnell are angry because they were willing to meet with Obama at all. The magic 27% brooks no exceptions.
Corner Stone
@suzanne:
I’ve…uh…been wondering about this for the last few minutes.
Seeing Cantor’s untimely demise is understandable. But you want a Zombie Winehouse as Majority Leader? Could Zombie Winehouse be any more or less rational than a not dead yet Cantor?
Come to think of it, I guess negotiating with a non-animated and horrific something that just wants to gnaw on your brains is pretty close to dealing with Zombie Winehouse.
andy
I’ve been playing with garlic scapes:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40964542@N08/5969025230/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40964542@N08/5972006303/in/photostream/
People may blame Boehner and company, but we’ll ALL be in the shit if they trigger a default. The irony is it’s the hover~round hordes who will take the biggest hit. They may be too dim to appreciate the cause of their injury, but injury it will be…
Yutsano
@andy: Are you a food stylist? If not you might want to consider it. Those pictures are magnifico.
EDIT: my kitteh has taken up residence on my right shoulder. And she won’t move. This won’t end well.
JGabriel
Anne Laurie @ Top:
I’m not sure that conclusion is quite accurate, Anne. The breakdown is more Pelosi/Reid/McConnell 3%, Obama 14%, and Boehner/Cantor 81%.
In other words, hardly anyone is blaming Democrats or the Senate. 1 in 7 are blaming the President. And more than 4 out of 5 are blaming House Republicans.
As for the Crazification Factor, I don’t think we can rule out their presence. In the crazies warped worldview, they may have voted for Boehner/Cantor on the grounds that they were crediting them — because the crazies want an economic crash — instead of blaming them.
For instance, let’s assume the Crazification Factor split on the issue, with half blaming Obama at 14%, and the other half crediting Boehner/Cantor at 14%. 14% + 14% = 28%.
Ah HAH! There’s the C.F.!
.
Jewish Steel
@Elizabelle: Good find there. Brand had such an absurd public persona that I think a lot people miss how eloquent he is.
@dead existentialist: Do you know what traditions we are aware of here?
JGabriel
@Corner Stone:
Anyone who walks into the House Republican Caucus and starts eating their brains is automatically fulfilling a purpose more rational than anything Eric Cantor has ever accomplished.
.
Dennis SGMM
They’re focused on a chimerical balanced budget amendment when we’re days away from a possible catastrophe. Fucking brilliant! I hope that they’ve stocked up on candles because they’ll need them when the lights go out.
JGabriel
@Dennis SGMM:
Shhh! Don’t tell anyone, but … Republicans also focused on the deficit when they should be focused on jobs.
.
FlipYrWhig
@ Dennis : I can easily picture the power shutdown, them sitting in the dark confusedly. Someone says, “I got it!” He gets up, finds the switch, and tries flipping it. Then he gets down again. Every few minutes, a different person goes through the same routine. And, like a fly banging into a closed window, he’s always freshly confounded about why it doesn’t work.
Dennis SGMM
@FlipYrWhig:
LOL! And every now and then a forlorn voice is heard to say “Maybe they’d come back on if we cut taxes.”
JGabriel
@FlipYrWhig:
Then they call Fox News to send a cameraman so they can blame Obama. The cameraman arrives, plugs in a lamp, flicks the switch, and says, “Is the power out?” Someone says, “I got it!” He gets up …
.
Jc
I’m not liking what we are hearing from Reid. It’s Pretty much the plan Pelosi was talking about on Friday, reductions only.
The rumorszare not good in fact, what Pelosi and Reid say, are not good.
Here is hoping there is a master plan going on that I’ll be pleased with next week.
Elizabelle
BJ was discussing Tom Friedman’s column re Americans Elect this morning. First I’d ever heard of the group. (Assumed it was that “No Colors” or “No Label” whatever Evan Bayh was bleating about.)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24friedman.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
(Agree it’s got potential to be a spoiler for Obama and help elect a Republican. IMHO, Obama is already working TOO hard with the Republicans — who won’t work with him at all.
Which kind of undercuts AE’s premise for existing. We HAVE a centrist president who works to build coalitions to solve big problems.)
Then, at LA area Farmer’s Market this morning, a guy was collecting signatures to get Americans Elect on the ballot in California.
I refused to sign.
Elizabelle
Besides which, given it’s funded by a private investor, we could call the thing “American Select.”
Same thing. Possibly same outcome, whatever people who vote for this thing expect.
Spaghetti Lee
Elizabelle @27
What you have to understand about the political center is that it just so happens to be whatever Thomas Friedman woke up this morning thinking about. It’s amazingly versatile that way.
Elizabelle
Spaghetti, I believe you are right there.
Write it down!
Cliff in NH
Why oh Why do I trade the Europe open?
Insomnia?, oh, yea, that…
ps, I updated the dog pix with more dog pix…
Alison
Is that the new Soylent Green?
Cliff in NH
@Elizabelle:
or label it: You are owned by: (A Select Rich American)
Wannabe Speechwriter
If Slate is “How Genocide can help your 401(k)” then HuffPo is “How Amy Winehouse’s Death Can Help Your Small Business”-
http://gawker.com/5824305/huffpo-explains-how-amy-winehouses-death-can-help-your-small-business
Cliff in NH
How “The Market Ticker” forums can create a new political party….
Elizabelle
I really, really wish that when our finest Villagers appear on TV, or even in print, you saw:
David Brooks, $200,000 salary, net worth $1.9 million (or whatever Bobo’s amassed)
David Gregory …. Anderson Cooper …. Andrea Mitchell …. Tom Friedman …
Something to make their audiences/readers aware of their personal interest in covering the Deficit, Deficit, Deficit all the time stories.
Because these people know “average” Americans and their problems and concerns like they know starving Sudanese and Somalians.
Edit: it’s probably not fair to lump Anderson Cooper in, because his concern for Hurricane Katrina survivors is real. Can’t say because never watch cable news.
Calouste
And so Moody’s cuts the credit rating by three notches on the possibility of a default. Granted, it’s Greece, not the USA (yet).
Yutsano
@Elizabelle:
Anderson is a Vanderbilt. I wouldn’t worry about his personal fortune too much, especially considering he’s Gloria’s sole heir (I think). He really does try for the compassion angle every now and again but he can be just a villagey as the rest.
Cliff in NH
@Elizabelle:
Fixt.
J. Michael Neal
JC:
You have to take a closer look at what’s actually in the package. No benefit cuts to entitlements, and half of the spending cuts are spending less on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan relative to the CBO baseline; in other words, they aren’t really cuts.
It takes me back to that long bygone era of last December, when spending cuts turned out to be meaningless.
Elizabelle
Oh, yeah, knew about Cooper’s wealth and family. (He also has an older brother who was a suicide, by jumping from the family’s apartment, if memory serves.)
So he is a good example of the media/political/plutocracy axis.
Although I still think Cooper’s genuinely curious and tries to get the story right. (Mind you, this is “I think” by osmosis since I don’t watch cable. …)
Elizabelle
Found this great clip of a bulldog and his wading pool on what looks like a good and pithy political blog.
http://thepoliticalcarnival.net/2011/07/24/video-overnigh-thread-gus-wants-an-indoor-pool/
Yutsano
@Elizabelle:
FWIW a good friend of mine met him once on a flight. He said Anderson was very unassuming and indeed very curious about the story. And he HATES it when people point to his family’s wealth. I wonder if there’s some deeper tale to that. I do know he refuses to throw his name around just to get access beyond what he gets as a prominent journalist.
John Puma
With one week remaining before the US government runs out of money, the “focus on some sort of a balanced budget amendment” is a metaphor for the radical reich’s refusal, or inability, to grasp reality.
1) If you insist on borrowing other people’s money to finance your perpetual war machine (which costs over 50% of the yearly budget) then you’d better not alienate all possible future lenders by defaulting on their current largesse.
2) the most quickly ratified amendment to the constitution required 100 days AFTER its proposal. http://www.usconstitution.net/constamrat.html
3) where was the congressional fervor for such amendment when, for example, the reich controlled both houses of congress under Bush II and approved debt ceiling increases automatically?
4) why doesn’t Boner NOW propose the amendment instead of aimlessly whining about it?
For the record, the amendment process:
from http://www.usconstitution.net/constam.html
“There are essentially two ways spelled out in the Constitution for how to propose an amendment. ONE HAS NEVER BEEN USED. (emphasis added)
The first method is for a bill to pass both houses of the legislature, by a two-thirds majority in each. Once the bill has passed both houses, it goes on to the states. This is the route taken by all current amendments. Because of some long outstanding amendments, such as the 27th, Congress will normally put a time limit (typically seven years) for the bill to be approved as an amendment (for example, see the 21st and 22nd).
The second method prescribed is for a Constitutional Convention to be called by two-thirds of the legislatures of the States, and for that Convention to propose one or more amendments. These amendments are then sent to the states to be approved by three-fourths of the legislatures or conventions. This route has never been taken, and there is discussion in political science circles about just how such a convention would be convened, and what kind of changes it would bring about.
Regardless of which of the two proposal routes is taken, the amendment must be ratified, or approved, by three-fourths of states. There are two ways to do this, too. The text of the amendment may specify whether the bill must be passed by the state legislatures or by a state convention. See the Ratification Convention Page for a discussion of the make up of a convention. Amendments are sent to the legislatures of the states by default. Only one amendment, the 21st, specified a convention. In any case, passage by the legislature or convention is by simple majority.
The Constitution, then, spells out four paths for an amendment:
Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state conventions (never used)
Proposal by convention of states, ratification by state legislatures (never used)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state conventions (used once)
Proposal by Congress, ratification by state legislatures (used all other times)”
Elizabelle
Yutsano: you must let us know the vibe in your office with the co-workers wondering if a default will affect them quickly.
It feels like Groundhog Day, waiting to see what transpires.
Yutsano
@Elizabelle:
Oh we’re already on edge. Mostly because we have zero guidance as to what exactly will happen next except we’re considered essential workers (I work in compliance so yeah, actually getting folks to pay up matters) so we could end up working for reduced pay or none at all. And just to give some further perspective: we go through all this again in two whole months!!
MikeJ
@Elizabelle: I have never met a groundhog that paid his debts. Goddamned welshers.
Cliff
he contours of Mr. Boehner’s backup plan were not entirely clear, but it seemed likely to take the form of a two-step process, with about $1 trillion in cuts
Oh dear jegus, this makes my head hurt. They’ve went back and forth over whether to cut 2 or 4 trillion dollars, and now Boehner’s planning to say he’s cool with just 1 trillion?
And I saw that future cuts are also part of the plan, but how is that different from the axe squad they’ve got in there now? It’s not like the Republicans were ever going to stop pushing for spending cuts.
Amir_Khalid
If NYT has it right, John Boehner’s working on a plan the Democrats have already said they will reject. In other words, he’s still wasting time. Why? Because, I believe, he has lost the mandate of his caucus. At this point he’s just trying to save face, i.e. to preserve the appearance that he still has the mandate.
So why are the Democrats still dealing with him? Well, he’s still Speaker. If they shoot him down, where will that leave Nancy Pelosi when she regains the post? Better to let Boehner’s own party take him down when the time comes.
As for the Democrats’ plan, they might still be playing the tactic where they give the Republicans/Tea Party almost-but-not-quite everything they want, and watching the offer get rejected for the (ever-diminishing) not-quite part. Which is upsetting their own base, but should end at the point where Boehner, being unable to sway his party, must capitulate to the Democrats to save his country.
But the orange man would have to sacrifice his position, maybe even his political career, to do it. And that, I think, is the sticking point right now.
The Democrats could be waiting for just the right moment to urge him (in a private whisper, or in a loud voice so .everyone can hear) to that sacrifice. If so, I do hope they’re timing it right.
Elizabelle
MikeJ; very funny re Groundhogs.
Yutsano: I guess yoga and lots of pet-petting is in order.
I think the Republicans might be really worried, because you have Bobo and Peggy Noonan talking about Obama’s “arrogance”, the better to avoid their party’s intransigence and suicide bombers.
MikeJ
BTW, if the past is prologue, note this from wikipedia on the 96 shutdown:
Yutsano
@Amir_Khalid: He. Cannot. Sell. It. To. His. Caucus. Which means he has no right to be the Speaker of the House. If you can’t fucking whip your party to support a bill you know has to get passed, what fucking good are you? If this happened in Malaysia, there would have already been a no-confidence vote and a request to the President to dissolve Parliament.
Pat
It is amazing how raising the debt limit, a matter that was practically automatic up until now (raised 89 times altogether in the nation’s history. Who knew?), now involves solving every problem confronting Washington before it can be accomplished.
Something is truly rotten in Denmark.
Amir_Khalid
@Yutsano:
A small detail: we aren’t a republic, so there is no President. Here it is the PM, not the King, who dissolves Parliament ahead of a general election. But otherwise, yeah, you’re right.
Frankensteinbeck
48:
You’re right, they’re not. Currently expanded spending is not possible, or is only possible through tricking them. (Normally that route is out of the question, but the Tea Party seems to actually be that stupid.) That’s why the Democratic negotiators have refused proposals of multi-stage debt increases. They just give the Republicans more hostage opportunities. This is a ‘damage control until they get spanked by backlash’ strategy, because that’s the only strategy there is in this situation. The government will only minimally function until the Tea Party is taken out of the equation, either by a split within the GOP or electoral backlash.
LosGatosCA
I think something that could help Obama, but is useful in it’s own right, is to start planning for the Republicans returning to full four branch control of the government and a Republican appointing successors for Ginsburg and Scalia. Don’t think it can get worse? Think again.
That’s brutal, but likely given the gross ineptitude of the current administration.
Frankensteinbeck
LosGatosCA:
This ‘gross ineptitude’ you speak of… you are aware that Obama’s legislative achievements are both quantitatively and qualitatively among the best of any president’s? That his popularity figures are quite high compared to other presidents? That he’s delivered the majority of his campaign promises already? You didn’t see him take down Osama bin Ladin or hand the Republicans their butts on the budget negotiations?
‘Gross ineptitude’ is another meme that does not match the observed facts. You mean ‘he does not use the negotiation strategy you like’. His negotiation strategy has empirically demonstrated that it is competent.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Frankensteinbeck: “His negotiation strategy has empirically demonstrated that it is competent.”
Unlike his detractors.
Alwhite
@20 – if anyone went into the House Republican caucus and started eating brains . . . they’d starve to death!
Can’t believe I could be the first to use that line 40 comments later :D maybe this’ll be a good day!
Alwhite
@52 – its fights like this that make me long for a parliamentary government. They have their own sets of problems but this sort of deadlock is not one of them.
Since the first time I read a news story saying “neither side wants a default” I can’t help but think this is July 1914 and nobody want a war.
Amir_Khalid
The official football (OK, soccer ball) for the 2012 Olympics in London has been named Albert, the word for “ball” in Cockney rhyming slang, the Guardian reports.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Alwhite:
It would be like the brain slug that latched onto Fry’s head on Futurama.
“Poor little guy starved to death.”
ant
a friend of mine had a birthday this last weekend, so a bunch of us got together to hang out all day. all 20-30 somethings.
I learned about amy winehouse from them, but nothing was said about the debt ceiling problem.
I dont think most people are even aware of even the most basic things that happen in government, let alone that their ssi benefits that they pay out every week are on the chopping block, more than anybody elses.
These folks also think all pols are the same, and so are both major political parties.
They are also the same people who decide presidential elections.
Ron
Gah. I have MSNBC on and Scarborough just said “The Senate is controlled by the Democrats and they didn’t pass a budget either.” or words very close to that. Oh, Joe, please go back and read the Constitution.
TheMightyTrowel
one of the better bits of commentary on the coverage of the Norway shootings:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jul/24/charlie-brooker-norway-mass-killings
Kirbster
@ Pat (53): Exactly. The US has bills to pay now. The creditors, employees, contractors, and pensioners are legally owed now and don’t give a damn about anybody’s resolutions to be more responsible about the budget in the future. These are prior commitments. The debt ceiling vote should not be tied future tax cuts, spending cuts, or revenue increases. I’m disgusted with the Republicans for turning a routine courtesy vote into the ultimate hostage play and with the Democrats for buying into their framing.
arguingwithsignposts
@ant and others: i was discussing the defaultdammerung with the somebody yesterday, and the question came up that came up in dennis g’s thread below? How do we change things so that we can loosen the grip of the 27 percenters on our political system. In earlier threads, someone suggested total reform of the education system. Aside from the total impossibility of such a scenario being enacted, the 27 percenters have their in loco parentis jeebus schools and home schools that would thwart that effort. Pljs it would take forever.
Most people around here also look to the “demographic time bomb.” But unless the demograhic time bomb shows up at the *local polls,” it’s not going to change anything, because the 27 percenters are far more motivated to show up and vote in local and state elections.
The *only* solution i can see is not a population of young people who don’t see gay marriage or abortion as a “big deal” but a young population that sees local and state politics and policy as a *huge* deal.
You aren’t going to restore local school bond elections to sanity by voting for Obama, but only by flooding local school district elections and electing sane candidates. Multiply that to every level of government.
I don’t know how that can happen given the huge institutional and cultural barriers that stand in the way of that, but it’s the only way I can see it happening.
Sorry for the long comment, but i’d like to know what others think. Even if you think i’m just typing platitudes.
bkny
I think something that could help Obama, but is useful in it’s own right, is to start planning for the Republicans returning
why bother … mr hopey changey’s the best friend the gop has — gutting the social safety net would never have been approved had it been put forth by a republican president…
WereBear
@arguingwithsignposts: We do need a way of handling them; we can return to what has always worked, which is to acknowledge that they are crazy.
Because they have always been with us, and their tactics and goals never changes.
But once upon a time, they were the societally recognized nutjobs they still are. They were not enshrined as a populist political movement and they were not given power.
They are the same as they always have been.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
WereBear
roger that.
arguingwithsignposts
@Werebear: i wish i could say you were right, that just acknowledging they are crazy would be like daylight to a vampire. But i was catching up on Nixonland last night, and they actually did get in power preciely by portraying themselves as a populist movement, against “limousine liberals.”
True, it wasn’t a populist movement you or i would agree with, but there it was. Or take the school book fight in west virginia that took place in 1974(!). The frustrating part of things is that they only seem to believe in democratic processes when they benefit them. When the tide turns, they are all about oppression of their minority viewpoint.
dr. bloor
From the Editor’s Desk.
Kane
The problem is not that the Republican philosophy isn’t working the way it’s supposed to work, the problem is that it is working the way it’s supposed to work. They don’t believe that government has a role in solving national problems because they believe that government is the problem. They think we’re better off if we just dismantle government.
For many years now, Republicans have argued that government doesn’t work. And with their many failures over the years, they have been quite successful in making that argument. The entire right-wing ideology is predicated on the notion that government can’t work. They don’t want government to succeed at any level, local or national. They actually encourage the public distrust of government, having no problem with spreading conspiracy theories about government. They highlight the inefficiencies of government not so that government may be improved, but rather as a reason to oppose government altogether. All the better to make the argument that government needs to be shrunk down to size and drowned in a bathtub so that corporations can rule openly.
Perhaps this is one reason why Republicans so vehemently opposed President Obama and the Democratic Congress. It wasn’t so much that Republicans disagreed with the logic of the policies, rather they were affraid that the policies would be successful. They feared that President Obama and Democrats would prove that government can indeed work for the American people and that it can be effective, just not in the hands of Republicans.
WereBear
Yes, it was the same thing they are doing now. And the press, intimidated by Agnew, were almost as useless as they are now.
However, some things have changed for the better; as mentioned often here, the Republicans act like “Youtube doesn’t exist.” But it does, and there are other pipelines of information that didn’t exist less than a decade ago.
This is a time of huge upheaval, and that’s never fun for those in the middle of it. But once the little boy spoke up, and said the Emperor was naked; no one who heard it could look at the Emperor the same way again.
That’s what acknowledging the crazy does, even if we have to do it over and over. Because the crazy is always with us.
Nemesis
Orange Foolius has lost control of his caucus. Hell, he never really had control of his caucus. In fact, there have been repeated failures of gop bills in the gop-lead House. Its stunning that Boehner has been so disorganized.
Although the entire fake crisis is maddening, it is fascinating to watch this political theatre unfold.
As we know, polls mean nothing to the gop. But with Americans solidly behind the Dem position, one can reason its time for us to fold.
Davis X. Machina
From Politico via Klein’s joint:
So it isn’t like nothing’s getting done.
A Mom Anon
In a more perfect union,bringing Civics back into the schools might be somewhat helpful in educating young people into what being part of a participatory form of gov’t means.
I graduated from HS in 1978. I had to have 4 credits in American History,State and Local Government,Federal Government and Civics 101 to graduate. My two younger siblings,one 5 yrs and one 10 yrs younger did not have to have that. It’s no coincidence that wingnuts took over the school board at the time my sibs reached HS age. I loved those classes,we got to go to different government meetings and various elected officials came into classes and talked about different subjects. We even got to choose our own term paper subjects and were given contact info for various community members we could interview on different topics.
I see a direct connection to the general ignorance today and the lack of educaton on civic matters. I know alot of older folks had this education(I’m 51),but with no younger educated folks around to remind them of what they learned,maybe propaganda has had an easier time taking hold. Or maybe I’m full of it,lol. I just think a decent education reverberates throughout a community,not just within the generation being schooled. I wish more parents would stand up and demand this from their school systems and could do so without having to fight being called a marxist or worse.
jeffreyw
Breakfast is served-BYOB (bring your own bib)
jeffreyw
FYWP!
Breakfast is served- bring your own bib:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jeffreyww/4824301884/in/set-72157622488066675/
Davis X. Machina
@A Mom Anon: True enough, but time is not on our side.
From a book review (Janine Wedel’s Shadow Elite) by Buce, at Underbelly:
BO_Bill
It is now time for the Progressive Movement to get out of bed, pet the cat, fire up that expensive coffee-maker, and have a cup with three creams.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@MikeJ:
bulls get rich
bears get rich
groundhogs get slaughtered, but only after they are done chucking wood for the man. i don’t blame them if they default.
bemused
Gov. Dayton talked about ending the shutdown in Minnpost and the new Republican sticking to “principles” at any cost mirrors battles in other state and the debt ceiling mess.
Dayton said he was hearing that the R leaders were getting prepared to come forward with a new budget proposal “that would have been even more draconian” than the one he had vetoed at the end of the session in May. Dayton decided the shutdown could last through July, Sept and Dec and the R’s weren’t going to move.
Dayton thought there would be the same level of intense negotiations that existed leading up to July 1st. Instead, there was virtually no contact.
Republicans, everywhere, saying their priorities are balancing budgets and reducing deficits is a load of crap, but we knew that.
Boudica
@A Mom Anon:
I’m just a little younger than you (47). I spent my last 2 years of high school in No. Virginia in an area that was considered to provide good education . I had to take a year of VA history, and a year of Govt (I don’t know what the RQs were in Michigan for my first 2 years of HS).
My kids here in Texas take a year of Geography, a year of World History, a year of US History, & a semester of Govt (with a semester of Econ).
I don’t know that I learned more 30 years ago than they do today.
Davis X. Machina
@bemused: Now, now, bemused, they are simply hewing to their austere and simple, yet deeply principled, theory of government and the limited state.
The two legitimate functions of the nation-state are a.) to bomb the bejeezus out of brown people who worship the wrong God, and b.) to shovel goodies out the back door of the Treasury to your cronies, and provide their getaway cars with a police escort en route to the Caymans.
It’s in Hayek, I’m pretty sure. Or von Mieses. Or one of those guys.
(Minnesota of course can’t bomb anyone, so the local GOP is sticking to B.)
Ash Can
In other news, the Norwegian right-wing terrorist/mass murderer wants time in court, with mass media coverage, to explain his motives.
This guy — on top of everything else — is a defense attorney’s nightmare.
pablo
What the Dems should do:
Take the exact bill Boner puts out there, add a $10.00 tax increase on those making over $450 Million a year, and watch Repugs heads explode!
JGabriel
@Ash Can:
From society’s and civilization’s point of view, that’s probably a good thing.
.
JohnR
This is good news for John Boehner, because it means the Republicans have won. As of yeaterday I was still hoping that Obama would finally get tired of them refusing to accept his surrender and just say “Screw this, the Constitution demands that I tell you to suck balls.” and unilaterally do away with the ‘debt limit’, but of course, he’s constitutionally unable to act unilaterally.
jinxtigr
@3: OMG, that guy is made of win! http://youtu.be/cW9dxFrAk-I
On teabagger cluelessness: “I mean, these are people who believe in Social Darwinism- and don’t believe in Darwin”
catclub
It is my understanding that most, if not all, of the supposed cuts are in the hazy future. This is so because actually NO ONE wants to make cuts in the present.
Some of those cuts (my understanding) include $100B/yr when we have no Iraq and Afghanistan war costs. HI-larious. This is actually the benefit of Obama putting war costs ON budget back in 2009.
As fas as I can tell, all the cuts are imaginary. This is why I am not particularly worried about a ‘deal’ that is all cuts and no taxes. The puzzle for me is that the GOP are so dumb they do not point this out. In addition, it is also known that anything one congress can enact, another congress can repeal, so no cut is ever set in stone.
My actual worry is that for every single debt-ceiling raise for the next 5 years ( given re-election), the same ‘you must find cuts equal to the raise’
charade will be repeated.
Tone In DC
catclub – July 25, 2011 | 11:02 am · Link
It is my understanding that most, if not all, of the supposed cuts are in the hazy future. This is so because actually NO ONE wants to make cuts in the present.
Some of those cuts (my understanding) include $100B/yr when we have no Iraq and Afghanistan war costs. HI-larious. This is actually the benefit of Obama putting war costs ON budget back in 2009.
As fas as I can tell, all the cuts are imaginary. This is why I am not particularly worried about a ‘deal’ that is all cuts and no taxes. The puzzle for me is that the GOP are so dumb they do not point this out. In addition, it is also known that anything one congress can enact, another congress can repeal, so no cut is ever set in stone.
My actual worry is that for every single debt-ceiling raise for the next 5 years (given re-election), the same ‘you must find cuts equal to the raise’
charade will be repeated.
_________________________________________________
I figure you’re right. For my own peace of mind, and no ther reason, I just need to see the actual deal so I can stop banging my head against the nearest cinderblack wall.
Ruckus
arguingwithsignposts
Thanks for the reply.
As I think more about my original question of what to do, I see that it needs some fleshing out.
I was asking what do we do now? Not over the next 1 to 20 years. Now.
I am saying that right now the world sucks. It has been going down this path for a while and we haven’t responded well, if at all so turning it around or even slowing down the spiral will take time. But I see that we have arrived at a tipping point, with the crazy lunatics, if not in charge of, at least with a controlling interest in our future. I don’t see a good outcome here, now.
How do we change the narrative? Can we change the narrative? Or do we lurch from crisis to crisis till the whole country can no longer sustain itself?
As you may notice I have no answers. I have asked this question several times over the last few weeks and the couple of answers I have gotten have been relatively long term. Answers that would take a minimum of 5-10 years to see any affect.
Frankensteinbeck
JohnR:
Correct, the president is constitutionally unable to act unilaterally on anything involving money.
Thank Grod, one of his detractors finally read the constitution. Good for you, sir.