I’m not usually one to follow celebrity lives and deaths too much, but I find Amy Winehouse’s death very sad. Her songs and lyrics were clever, and I really liked her singing, which was sophisticated and jazz-inflected in a way that you just don’t hear much on pop radio. So much of popular culture is frankly stupid and tasteless, so when someone gets immensely popular doing something that goes beyond stupid and tasteless, I have a lot of respect for them.
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Rey
Her voice was golden- sent from heaven…
cathyx
Do they know the cause of her death yet?
Ol' Dirty DougJ
Also too, it pisses me off that Sullivan is writing about how “she chose death” and crap like that. People get into rough patches and get can’t get out, that doesn’t mean they’re “choosing” anything.
NonyNony
@cathyx
No. Last I heard initial autopsy was inconclusive and toxicology results were going to take 2-3 weeks.
cleek
@cathyx:
nope.
toxicology will take weeks.
Pat
Bona fide pain there.
arguingwithsignposts
This is OT, but something Tom Levenson would appreciate, and Anne Laurie as well – apparently, temperatures in the Northeast are nearing the boiling point!!
Seriously, the AP headline: “Northeast braces for temps near boiling point”
@Ol’ Dirty DougJ: Agree with that, ODDJ.
jwb
Ol’ Dirty DougJ: No, it’s doubtful that she chose death in the way that most of us think about that phrase. On the other hand, can any one say that they were surprised to hear that she died? She certainly seemed to be pursued by some wicked demons. It’s all so very sad.
Rome Again
@NonyNony:
I did hear yesterday that her mother made a statement saying something about how it was only a matter of time. Sounds like the family thinks they know the cause of death and just want confirmation.
Jewish Steel
OT, but I’m wondering if Obama has decided to go prime time as a result of Boehner’s ‘Two-Step Approach to Hold President Obama Accountable,’ plan revealed today on Rush Limbaugh’s show.
I pick this up from Steve Benen.
Elizabelle
Russell Brand had an excellent tribute, published in The Guardian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/jul/24/russell-brand-amy-winehouse-woman
Karen
Russell Brand wrote a column in the Guardian that said that addicts needed to be treated like sick people in need of care instead of like criminals.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I saw that Boehner had taken his plan to Limbaugh right after I read (okay, skimmed) Tom Friedman’s latest wankery on ‘the radical Center’. Seemed like fortuitous clicking to re-inforce what I knew: Friedman is one of the marble-headed stupes in the Village.
Has anyone seen Friedman, Greenfield or any of these other wankers mention specific policy? What this mythical centrist platform would look like?
Mattminus
A noble addition to the 27 club, that’s for sure. She lived and died like a fucking rawk star.
JPL
Thanks to the person who linked to the Brand article earlier today. I think it was elizabelle. It was so touching.
Bret
Totally agree, Doug. But when they piss away all that talent by doing drugs and dying way before their time, I absolutely lose all said respect. It’s sad, but I’m not going to be upset over her death. We still have tons of amazing similar artists that aren’t morons, like Adele and Melody Gardot who will give us everything she won’t.
meh
it’s not that she chose death per se – its that she chose getting fucked up instead of getting sober. The more you get fucked up the more you have to do next time to get as fucked up. In that sense, she made a choice.
Jewish Steel
Re-quoting self for forehead-slapping WTFuckery.
That’s just bananas.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@Elizabelle: @Karen:
i read that when he posted it on twitter, it really should be the definitive word on amy winehouse.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
@Elizabelle: @Karen:
i read that when he posted it on twitter, it really should be the definitive word on amy winehouse.
scav
@arguingwithsignposts: oh help, help help help help although we may finally have enough evidence to investigate how how high the supposed press corps is.
that colored fella
So true Old Dirty D.
I was surprised to read in the NYTimes obit that she was suffering from Bi-Polar. Too often people with bi-polar self-medicate with drugs and booze because the prescribed medication can be unbearable. Has anyone else heard that?
That being said, I was looking forward to her follow up to Back In Black. (Did not care much for ‘Frank’). Now all we will get are half finished demos.
Xecky Gilchrist
So much of popular culture is frankly stupid and tasteless, so when someone gets immensely popular doing something that goes beyond stupid and tasteless, I have a lot of respect for them.
Agreed. Too bad nobody has done that since 1970.
/boomer
joes527
arguingwithsignposts
I had to read that article 3 times, because it isn’t possible for a reporter to be that stoopid. I mean, that was english/metric-crash-into-mars class stupidity.
Once again I underestimated the AP’s ability to get things wrong.
wrb
Add this to the Tea crazies and it is goodbye Euro Tourists. “100 fecking degrees,” they say, “The streets must be littered with blanched dead Yanks.”
Mattminus
@Bret 16 –
This is a fire.
Go die in one.
Seriously, listen to her albums and tell me any talent was “pissed away”.
Bret
@Mattminus – Um, what? You don’t think that using drugs so hard she could barely stand, and then dying at 27 isn’t pissing away talent? Are you high?
Brachiator
Ol’ Dirty DougJ:
I suspect that much of this is based on Sullivan’s take on his religious principles. This means that there is no point in taking him seriously on this.
Other than that, I got no big philosophical take on Amy Winehouse’s death right now, except to grieve for the gap that she left in the hearts of her family, her fans, and those who cared about her. And to grief for the gap that she left in music and arts. So many songs left unsung.
Elizabelle
I’m not sure Amy chose death as much as she wouldn’t evade its grasp.
She let it claim her, like a sparrow caught in some monstrous web or cage of her own partial creation. A real insight into addictive personalities.
Plus, she was passionate about her former husband, a fellow addict and trouble if one ever saw it coming.
Interesting comment on a NY Times reader thread: commenter “anon” from Boston:
http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/arts/music/amy-winehouse-british-soul-singer-dies-at-27.html?sort=recommended
Mister Papercut
@Mattminus:
Failing that, go stand outside in the near- and above-boiling point Northeast.
srv
OT, but under 29 white voters being liberal? Not so much:
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2067/2012-electorate-partisan-affiliations-gop-gains-white-voters
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
I was surprised to find out she was a year younger than I am. I always assumed she was like 5-10 years older, which may speak a lot to her health condition, actually…
sistermoon
Her voice was incredible, and her songs were truly memorable.
Sadly, in this era of autotune and “American Idol” packaging, there will never be anyone else like her.
Amir_Khalid
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Obama’s very real attempts at bipartisanship consistently go like this: he holds his hand out to Republicans, and they try to bite it off. Obama justifiably finds this frustrating and has sometimes said so, particularly in the past few days.
It’s like the radical centrists are blaming Obama for Republican obstruction. As they describe it, they want someone who does exactly what Obama has been doing, but gets a friendlier reception from the Republicans — whose persistent refusal to deal in good faith with him and with Democrats they present as proof that Obama is the one failing at bipartisanship.
WereBear
People keep taking drugs because they are in pain. It doesn’t have to be physical pain, does it?
And Russell Brand is right; if we saw it as an illness, instead of a character flaw, we might be able to do something about it. With our current attitude, our record is pretty close to sweet-damn-all.
It would be cheaper and more effective. Of course we won’t do it!
AAA Bonds
I love Amy Winehouse, but like a lot of her fans, I came for the blood.
Cris (without an H)
My general response to celebrity deaths is relative to the point in their career when it occurs. When Frank Sinatra or Elizabeth Taylor died, we who enjoyed their work may have taken a moment to reflect and say goodbye, but there was no real sense of loss for the majority of us who didn’t know them personally.
But when somebody goes in their prime, when you know they had years of productivity ahead of them (Patsy Cline) and maybe even better things to come (Otis Redding, Buddy Holly), then there’s a real sense of loss. Amy Winehouse was doing something special, and she was a key part of a larger musical movement (what do they call it? Neo-retro soul?) that makes me enjoy listening to the radio again. It’s a pity to see her go too early.
AAA Bonds
@srv:
This study is astoundingly shitty news and the overlooked headline of the day.
Elizabelle
@ Jewish Steel/comment 18:
Banana republic, more likely.
True life is so much stranger than fiction. How could you write a screenplay wherein
and not have people thinking it satire or theatre of the absurd? Or hyperbole?
Amir_Khalid
Russell Brand is speaking from his own experience in saying that addiction is an illness, often a life-threatening one. I reckon he’s right to argue that it should be treated as such rather than as a character flaw, or a failure of the sufferer’s personal discipline.
In his memoir, Keith Richards writes about the danger of relapsing. If an addict starts using again after cleaning up, his or her system is now a lot more sensitive than before to the substance — alcohol, cocaine, heroin, whatever — and even a little hit of the stuff can prove unexpectedly damaging. Possibly even fatal.
It will take the results from the tox screen to confirm this, but that strikes me as a quite plausible explanation for Amy Winehouse’s death: she had a relapse and took more of — well, something — than her body could handle.
It goes without saying that the death from addiction of one so young and promising, talented musician or not, is always a tragedy. Winehouse left behind only a few years worth of sublime work. It should have been decades. Now we’ll never hear her as an artist in her mature years.
joe
I pity Amy Winehouse and the spectacle that consumed her life. But respect? No.
Alwhite
like so many people I heard about her drug problems long before I heard her sing. I was stunned when I heard her. She had real talent both as a singer and as a songwriter. Her songs were nothing like what you would expect from a fucked up junkie. She pissed it all way chasing that old dragon down.
There are no excuses to me made – she did this to herself. But she had a lot of help I am sure, from the folks around her who turned a blind eye to her disease.
Omnes Omnibus
@ Alwhite:
Is this also what you say to/about a smoker who gets cancer? Of course, in the next sentence you refer to her disease. If the disease is addiction, how can you you blame her for it?
Arclite
yeah, Sully pissed me off with this whole “She’s with God now” as if that’s what she chose instead of life.
Bret
@Omnes Omnibus
If someone was addicted to hitting themselves in the face with a hammer, would you think it’s a disease? I’m pretty sure Stopitshammertimeia isn’t in the DSMIV
Elizabelle
Amir: excellent comment (40).
Good thread on a sad subject.
shortstop
It continually amazes and saddens me that large chunks of well-educated and erudite liberal audiences can be so studiedly medieval in their views of addiction.
Omnes Omnibus
@ Bret:
I am pretty sure addiction is.
Jewish Steel
@Xecky Gilchrist: It’s been a long 41 years for you, hasn’t it?
ErinSiobhan
I watched the footage of her Belgrade show a few weeks ago and felt like a voyeur – it was horrible but I couldn’t stop watching. Her death isn’t surprising but it’s a very sad thing. I was really hoping she could beat her addiction. Such an extraordinary talent.
MikeB
Brain chemistry is a mysterious and poorly understood science.
A malfunction in brain chemistry can cause a person to grab a gun
and kill themselves because they feel worthless and alone, or it can
cause them to grab a gun and go kill dozens of people because
they feel enraged and impotent.
This can happen without any assistance from drugs, legal or illegal.
The drugs are usually added to the mix in an effort to rectify the original
brain chemistry malfunction. At that point, you have too many variables,
and things begin to spiral downward.
It’s a little rich to hear the “chose death” argument applied to these
events, not unlike ‘why can’t poor people just pull themselves up
by their bootstraps?’
Cassidy
She sucked. I wish all the hand wringing would stop over a no-talent junkie who couldn’t get her shit together. She was notorious for being high, not famous for being a performer.
Irony Abounds
“It goes without saying that the death from addiction of one so young and promising, talented musician or not, is always a tragedy.”
Not nearly the tragedy that results from the deaths of thousands of virtually unknown young lives in the under classes that get snuffed out from neglect and gang violence. The loss to society is far greater than the death of a high profile person who obviously was incapable of handling life.
Keith G
When one is having trouble understanding the arc of Amy’s life (Bret, et al), it might help to reflect on Robert Downey Jr.
For many people, addiction can be so overpowering that if sobriety is achieved at all, it is achieved only after an unimaginable effort and many failures.
And even then, relapse is the spectre lurking in every shadow.
Omnes Omnibus
@ Cassidy: Opinions clearly differ.
@ Irony Abounds: Ooohh, fun! Let’s play “Four Yorkshiremen” with with it. Are there worse tragedies than that of a talented, but troubled, person dying? Of course. But, jaysus, man, you come off as the kind of person that might say, “I am sorry your mother died, but it isn’t as bad as what happened in Rwanda.”
Mr Stagger Lee
@The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
When the great saxophonist Charlie (Bird) Parker died, doctors were shocked that man who was 34 years old had a body of a man twice his age. Addiction and hard living was his trademark.
Marc
@52: I’m reminded of Edroso’s quip when some right-winger claimed that a famous actress with a left-wing bent was ugly…
“I don’t think this will make much progress in the sighted community”…
or, in the case of Winehouse, the hearing community…
Amir_Khalid
@Irony Abounds:
I don’t see what is to be gained by comparing the tragedy of a death from addiction with that of a death from gang violence or neglect. By what scoring system do you judge how well this dead person or that one handled life? Do you come up with a result that one kind of tragedy is more tragic than the other kind? Do you measure out your sympathy, based on these results, to a tenth of a gram precision?
Cassidy
They tried to make me go to rehab, but I said no, no, n….gaaak, urkk….gaaaaaaaahhhh
/ Amy Winehouse
Amir_Khalid
@Cassidy:
Ah, gratuitous disrespect for the dead. How admirable of you.
BD of MN
Cassidy, did she owe you money or something? wtf?
Just Some Fuckhead
@Keith G:
Yeah, but Robert Downey Jr. isn’t addicted to drugs. He’s addicted to prison sex. Big difference.
Irony Abounds
Omnes Omnibus & Amir_Khalid:
Sorry, but I get tired of hearing how horrible it is when someone self-destructs while hearing crickets as the lives of youngsters are destroyed through no fault of their own other than they had a parent or parents who are fucked up. I would have thought it is obvious that society is far more damaged from that type of tragedy than the death of a moderately talented singer who, while perhaps bringing some enjoyment to her fans, is hardly a difference maker in the scheme of things. I hardly think it is necessary to pull out a scale to measure such things.
Keith G
@Amir_Khalid: I have little worry for disrespect, but using so obvious of a bit (and one with all the imagination of a middle school lunch room at that) is not only beyond the pale, but also quite reflective of Cassidy’s mentality.
Keith G
@Just Some Fuckhead
You obviously were not paying attention since that is exactly what I was getting at.
He is addicted to injections and blow.
Omnes Omnibus
@ Irony Abounds: Thank you for showing everyone the error of our ways. You, today, have truly performed a service for all mankind.
Cassidy
No, I’m just tired of seeing the wailing over someone who was nothing more than a glorified lounge singer. The only thing that was pissed away was the opportunity for a good life, with plenty of money. She was no Jimi Hendrix. She was no Janis Joplin. And most people didn’t know who she was until it was mentioned she was 27.
So no, I don’t feel bad at all. Not in the slightest. I’m not gonna feel bad for some moron who had the greatest opportunity in the world, but decided being a junkie was more appealing.
Marc
You’re a jackass looking for attention on the internet. Not worth the effort to deal with.
Cassidy
And the whole such a waste charade is pathetic.
Marc
Want to know what’s really useless? A jackass looking for attention on the internet by trying to be as offensive as possible. By, for example, loudly posting how glad you are that someone else is dead, and by taunting people who are actually saddened by it.
Keep the nym, so I can never have to pay attention to anything else that you ever write.
Cassidy
Some tool wringing his hands over a no talent junkie who’s only hit was about not going to rehab, even though the dumbass probably should have? Didn’t say I was glad she was dead. Just said I don’t give a shit. And really? Your saddenned by it? Boo fucking hoo. She’s not around to entertain you anymore. Sorry you’re so fucking inconvenienced. Guess you’ll have to download something new from Itunes to comfort your lonely ears. Fucking tool.
Omnes Omnibus
@ Cassidy: For someone who doesn’t give a shit, you seem awfully worked up about this. Just saying…
Cassidy
Nah. Just pretentious people get on my nerves.
Trollenschlongen
Sullivan is breathtakingly heartless and arrogant. The man hasn’t an ounce of empathy. For someone who calls himself a Christian this is particularly appalling.
I am recently eleven years sober. I know a lot about the black places addiction takes people, and but for the grace of god I could have ended like Amy.
God bless her. I hope she is experiencing now the peace that was never hers in life.
Trollenschlongen
Sullivan is heartless and arrogant. The man hasn’t an ounce of empathy. For someone who calls himself a Christian this is particularly appalling.
I am recently eleven years sober. I know a lot about the black places addiction takes people, and but for the grace of god I could have ended like Amy.
God bless her. I hope she is experiencing now the peace that was never hers in life.
NobodySpecial
Well, at least we won’t be talking about her musical career in hushed, reverential tones like we did for a certain Mr. Cobain. The best outcome one can hope for from her death, though, is if even one person looks and decides that drug use and alcohol abuse ain’t fucking worth it.
shortstop
Christ, remembering Cassidy’s unintentionally hilarious “YOU HAVEN’T EARNED THE RIGHT TO CRITICIZE ME!” tirades, my irony meter just went splat.
Cassidy
Oh no, that’s not pretentious. I’m very arrogant as I’m good at what I do and I know 90% of you people would shit your pants and hide behind a rock if you were around gunfire. But not pretentious. Pretending that Winehouse was some sort of tragic, bluesy genius and the world is going to be worse without her and “look how cool I am, I listened to her before she died” is pretentious.
wenchacha
Reading posts here that slag on Amy Winehouse and her short life pisses me off. No, she wasn’t perfect. She obviously wasn’t everybody’s cup of tea. But motherfuck, there is a shit-ton of nasty glee to greet the news of her death.
For those of you who have family or friends dealing with mental illness and/or addiction, if you can’t conjure up any compassion for them, then stay the fuck away. Maybe some stranger will lend them a hand.
Marc
Roy Edroso has a god post on the subject over at alicublog:
http://alicublog.blogspot.com/2011_07_01_archive.html#2967806634045716749
People sneering at sad news because it gets them attention online is nothing new I remember people like whats-his-name (the guy talking about pie on this thread) showing up whenever there is a tragedy, or whenever someone dies, trying to make the story about themselves by being obnoxious.
shortstop
Yes, you keep obsessively and increasingly hysterically saying that. Are you trying to convince yourself or us? The ones who’ve actually got it ain’t so desperate.
I have no idea if you’re in the line of work you say you are — don’t give a damn, either — but it’s moderately obvious from your body of posts here that you’ve got some easily diagnosable shit going on. You know it, too. That probably has a lot to do with your palpable discomfort and wildly inappropriate bellicosity any time someone else’s mental and emotional issues are mentioned.
Omnes Omnibus
@ Cassidy: Many people are very good at what they do. Many people do things that are difficult. Not all of them are assholes about it. YMMV.
Xenos
Winehouse’s talent was so great, so evident, so singular, that I just can’t get my head around how anyone could call her ‘no-talent’. And she was not a junkie, was she? Coke and booze, in any quantity, do not make you a junkie. And why hate on someone who is obviously filled with self-loathing without ever being self-pitying? There are plenty of assholes out there needing to be hated – what mean or hypocritical thing has Winehouse done to deserve our scorn?
Some people just hate jazz, I suppose. Or maybe it just leaves them cold, so they consider anyone who likes jazz to be be a pretentious wanker. But even a passing familiarity with the subject shows Winehouse to have remarkable talent in writing original material and in performing it. I don’t much like the sound of her voice, but had something very real going on there. Painful to confront and pretty ugly at times, but terribly worth listening to.
Mike D.
I can see living that life while you’re big and it’s all happening fast and it’s what you do. When you have a need to keep it going at the same pace after things slow down in order for things to seem okay, well, if you die, it’s kinda on you is how I see it. Also: she was waaay overrated. Though she did have an intriguing voice, and some excellent song arrangers and band players.
bjacques
A damn shame all around. I’d hoped she’d make it in the end.
I get BBC and remember her appearances on “Never Mind the Buzzcocks,” a music quiz comedy show. She was obviously wasted, but seemed like a nice kid nonetheless. On the othe hand, I’d heard from someone who worked at a hospital and had to deal with her when she was hopped up ready to swing on someone.
I think she was talented, but even if one disagrees, her death made the world a little greyer.
@78 Marc: Edroso was in the Reverb Motherfuckers!? Damn, I have their first album and I could kick myself for passing up a chance to see them live at ABC No Rio in New York in ’89. I was just staying a few streets away.