[N]o wonder the Teabaggers are kicking our asses. Do you really think the ones in D districts sit around whining “he won’t listen to me, so I might as well do nothing.”? Is it that hard to pick up a phone? If you have a phobia, send a fax or even a damn email*. It takes the same amount of time that pissing and moaning here does. I’m sure the Republicans would love to see liberals voluntarily taking themselves out of the game.
Indeed.
(*) Do something other than email. Email is too easy to automate and nobody reads it.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The worst are full of passionate intensity*, while the best lack the energy to make a phone call**.
*and have been for four decades
**they’re tired of waiting after two whole years!
Breezeblock
I called my right-wing fucker’s office.
I’ll probably get a letter in about 6 months that says “Thank you for sharing your concern of the issues.”
That’s what he does whenever I call or write his office.
Bulworth
I have a reliable Dem for my district, so I’m pretty lucky.
Paul in KY
I have Rep. Chandler. I know he’ll back Pres on this one.
agrippa
I did.
I phoned. And wrote a letter, not typed.
Neither will have an effect, as McPaul cannot be defeated in an election.
TooManyJens
Thanks, Tim.
Another option is to go picket your GOP congressperson’s office at noon today. Obviously that’s not an option for everyone, but if you can make it, I highly recommend it. Getting together with other sane people and doing something visible is good for democracy and the soul.
jwest
Why waste your time?
Republicans know that you’re going to vote against them anyway, regardless of what they do. They also know that if they even joke about allowing a tax increase, they will be primaried and won’t make it to the election anyway.
No new taxes means exactly that. No arguments. No negotiation. Time to accept the reality of the situation and move on to prioritize the cuts.
Use your time productively instead of pissing into the wind.
tommybones
The GOP has EMBRACED the Tea Party and taken them quite seriously. Obama and the Democratic leadership? The opposite. They have at best ignored the progressives in the party and at worst, relished the opportunity to reject them.
Let’s look at the current “crisis.”
The latest proposals are a center/right Democratic proposal pitted against a far right GOP proposal. The GOP wins, regardless of outcome. The Tea Party is fighting for a BIGGER WIN. What are progressives supposed to fight for? A smaller loss?
Progressives are evidently supposed to get excited about joining the negotiations for our surrender.
I don’t know what the answer is. It’s very easy to fall back on the “lesser evil” argument, but that’s easier said than done. It necessitates Progressives fighting for something they DO NOT SUPPORT AT ALL. We are supposed to call our reps and demand they vote for massive cuts? When we want the opposite?
And you’ll also find there are many progressives who are literally helpless, as they have progressive representation in Congress and nobody to call with demands. My rep is very progressive and unfortunately, she has been ignored by Dem leadership. Sh’e been neutered, as all progressives in Congress have. It’s very disheartening.
andy
I called my rep (Cravaak). The phone worker was as bad as I imagined he would be. I stated my case, got mumbled grunts and apathy back. I think they know he’ll be out in ’12 to whatever sinecure the people who bought him the seat in the first place have prepared for him.
Glenda
I called both senators, but still haven’t gotten through to Rep. Loebsack. However, I’m sure that he will be backing Pelosi and Obama.
Trollenschlongen
testing
catclub
Now here is an interesting headline on Google finance:
” Republican Leaders Voted for Drivers of US Debt They Now Blame on Obama ”
Slowly, some things are sinking in. It was Bloomberg, BTW.
ohsuzanna
I called my Rep (a reliable Democrat) and one of my Senators (a reliable right-wing a$$hat, aka Rob Portman of Ohio). With respect to the latter, I felt I was talking to a wall and told them so, but I pushed on anyway….
nevsky42
Called my rep, Robert Hurt (VA-5), the aide was polite enough but spent an inordinate amount of time getting my address right before noting my opinion and asking me if there was anything else.
Anyone else in VA-5, his Washington # is (202) 225-4711. The Tea Party used to bombard his predecessor, Tom Perriello, but the aide picked right up, so I’m guessing he hasn’t heard enough from the normals in his district.
TooManyJens
@catclub: Nice! We need to pass that one around.
TooManyJens
By the way, there are 35 people signed up for the protest at my Congressman’s office today. Not bad for short notice.
Argive
My Rep is Chaka Fattah (PA 2nd Congressional District), who will do whatever NANCY SMASH tells him to do. So I’ll be calling Pat Toomey instead. I doubt it will do much good, but at least I’ll get to vent.
Kane
Pissing and moaning has its own rewards. For many people, the thought of calling or sending an e-mail is more rewarding than actually calling or sending an e-mail. Calling or emailing requires some thought and basic knowledge. Pissing and moaning requires no thought and no basic knowledge.
NonyNony
@jwest
God liberals piss me off.
You know why the fucking Tea Party has the control over the discourse that they have? Because there has been a concerted effort by conservatives for the last 80 years to take over the Republican party. They’ve been working this game plan since FDR.
And you know who their biggest allies are? Liberals who get frustrated and say things like “don’t waste your time” to simple organizing techniques.
You know why our country is perceived as a ‘center right’ country? because conservatives are loud and obnoxious and liberals are sarcastic and detached. When your Rep hears from 10 loudmouth conservatives for every one liberal is it any wonder that they think everyone agrees with them? Yeah you’re not going to change their mind, but if people from their district are calling them and writing them and saying “what are you doing – this is some seriously irresponsible bullshit” at least the message starts to come through that maybe – just maybe – they’re not in the majority on this after all.
But no – instead liberals just give up. Like they did in the 60s when they had some setbacks. Give up walk away and find a third party to vote for that can never win. Because if it never wins it never has to deliver and it can never disappoint anyone.
Cris (without an H)
I went to look up my Congresshuman’s number on his official congressional site, and of course the server is down. Fuck yeah, this is what a Democratic Denial of Service looks like.
tommybones
@NonyNony
Your simplistic analysis as to the causes of the problem is a big part of the problem.
“And you know who their biggest allies are? Liberals who get frustrated and say things like “don’t waste your time” to simple organizing techniques.”
Really? Their biggest allies aren’t billionaire corporate donors? Lobbyists? Corporate Media complicity? It’s liberals? Really?
“You know why our country is perceived as a ‘center right’ country? because conservatives are loud and obnoxious and liberals are sarcastic and detached.”
Really? It’s not Corporate media? Pushing these falsehoods as being true? It’s liberals sarcasm and detachment? Last I checked, liberals weren’t sarcastic and detached during the 2008 election season. Lot of good that did them. Was the myth of center/right destroyed after that election? No. It wasn’t.
I’d also like to point out the irony. We are being asked to call our representative now IN SUPPORT OF A CENTER RIGHT DEMOCRATIC PROPOSAL.
“Give up walk away and find a third party to vote for that can never win.”
I’ll quote Greenwald here:
“a political constituency that slavishly and unconditionally supports a Party will inevitably be ignored by that Party. That’s just basic political rationality.”
Ash Can
@NonyNony: Jwest is not a liberal (unless he’s doing a stupid spoof routine for kicks). Jwest always posts right-wing drivel, and this is no exception.
Hey, everyone, listen up. Here’s what a right-winger is telling you:
That’s what the right wing wants you to think. So what’s your response? What are you going to do? Hint: It involves communicating with your elected representatives.
askew
I’ve emailed my Senators and Rep, and I just got through on the phone to Rep. John Kline. I sounded like a moron, but I called anyway and asked Kline to vote the right way for once in his career.
Omnes Omnibus
@ NonyNony: jwest is a right wing troll. Please disregard it.
Admiral_Komack
I called my two senators.
Lindsey Graham’s voicemail was full.
I called Jim Demint’s office, gave my name to the staffer, told her that I wanted the debt ceiling raised, I did not want the country to go into default and I wanted tax revenues by the rich paying taxes; since there are no jobs, let the rich pay the taxes they owe.
The staffer asked where I was calling from, and I gave my name and location.
I asked the staffer if she was taking a tally, and she said, “Yes”.
I thanked her for taking my call, and told her to take care.
Mnemosyne
It’s almost like the Tea Partiers spent months going to town hall meetings and holding rallies while progressives sat on their asses whining on the internet, isn’t it?
I mean, the disparity couldn’t be that the teabaggers turned out in droves to primary Republicans and vote in November 2010 while progressives whined online about how mmmeeeaaannnn Obama is and sat on their asses when Election Day rolled around because that would show Obama not to take them for granted. Nope, it was solely Obama’s fault that you just couldn’t be bothered to take any action at all to get what you say you want.
If you want people to take you and your concerns seriously, you have to fucking get off your lazy ass and show up. Talking about how you totally would have shown up except that you were too busy gets you exactly jack shit from politicians.
NonyNony
@tommybones
If you don’t take a step back and see that the right in this country has successfully infiltrated and taken over both political parties and the media precisely because liberals gave up on the political process in frustration in the 60s and 70s I don’t know what to tell you. When there’s no real pushback – as there wasn’t for a good solid couple of decades in there – the right is going to bigfoot you. Which is what has happened. Liberals stopped participating in the political process and let the rightwing push them out of both parties.
Yeah the corporate media sucks – and you know what? that’s the result of a concerted effort by the right wing to make the corporate media suck that the left did not organize and push back against. Yeah the Republicans are crazy – because of a concerted effort by the right-wing to take over the Republican party that liberals did not organize and push back against. Yeah the Democrats suck and are corporate tools – because of a concerted effort by the corporate wing of the Democratic party to take over the party that the liberals did not push back against.
Time and time again liberals in this country since the 60s have just shrugged and said “politics suck – I’m taking my ball and going home”. And when they do push back they do it in ridiculous ways – like thinking that a “third party” is going to save things rather than trying to do what has proven to work in this country over and over again: working to co-opt one of the existing political parties and drag it the direction they want it dragged.
ellie
I also faxed my senators, Portman and Brown. Here is a link to use to get complete contact information on your Congressperson: http://www.contactingthecongress.org/
I think some of the individual websites are lacking in fax numbers. I sent mine to their Washington office because that is where they are now. I included my name, address, and phone number.
Percysowner
I called Rob Portman at three of his offices Cleveland, Columbus and Washington. I called Boehner and realized I was getting very impolite and so I’m giving it a rest. My Representative is Betty Sutton and she will do whatever Nancy SMASH tells her, so I’m not going to bother her right now.
gogol's wife
I called rep and two senators this morning, although they are not teatards or even Republicans. De Lauro’s staff person said she’s in talks constantly, but they have no idea what’s going to happen. Blumenthal’s staff person started explaining to me that we can’t just raise the debt ceiling until we get the budget under control, so I screamed at him about the debt ceiling money having already been appropriated, and he said, “Okay, okay, you’re preaching to the choir.” Lieberman’s staff member was cagey as usual but assured me that he preferred a Reid-type plan to a Boehner-type plan. (Repeated from mistermix thread above, because I forgot he wasn’t the one who asked for results.)
gogol's wife
p.s. I had no trouble getting through on the phone, but I assume that’s because they’re not Republicans.
Elie
Just came back from reading over at Washington Monthly. Combined with here, I feel really bad for Obama — that he has to “go to war” with support from people, supposedly on his side, who can’t seem to master basic facts.
1. Obama wanted a clean bill. Boner won’t propose one. Lets get that out and remembered. I am totally sick of reading that particular criticism over and over and over.
2. The Republicans have rejected every offer. Every offer except their own cap, etc legislation. But its still Obama’s fault
3. If Obama raises the debt ceiling by other means (14th amendment, other approach), he is not going to signal that beforehand. That would be an option that he knows would bring its own deep disruptions and therefore would only be pulled out, last minute, when all other options have failed.
I hope folks can hold onto this information but given what I have seen over the last few weeks, its only a matter of minutes before I read that Obama should accept a clean bill.
Thoughtcrime
I’m so very fortunate to have this man as my Representative:
http://garamendi.house.gov/about/biography.shtml
TK-421
I love the guilt-trips that always come along during crunch time. Yes, absolutely call because absolutely your GOP Congresscritter is listening and this absolutely will make a difference.
Look, I understand that Doing Something >>> Doing Nothing. But I will never understand the premise that Doing Something = Making a Difference. And if one agrees with me that some actions (e.g. calling your Republican Rep, your Republican Senator, and your other Republican Senator) make no difference at all, ever, then how rational is it to keep doing that thing over and over again?
Enough with the “get off your asses” guilt trips- we don’t have a say in this debate, and we never really did. Let’s stop pretending these calls we make will do anything other than give ourselves peace of mind that “we did what we could.” They’re not listening, so stop pretending they are.
The decisions are out of our hands, so I suppose we should all just hope that ABL is right and President Obama has “got this” and we should all “just CTFO.”
Lol
@30: but also too why is Obama negotiating with republicans instead of insisting on a clean bill?
Elie
NonyNony upstring on the liberals, etc:
I read an interesting analysis of what happened to the “left” in the 60’s. According to this person (a blogger here who I can’t remember), he pointed out the fracture of the left that happened during the Vietnam War when the young, college aged hippies broke from the unions, who held more conservative values related to the war and crime. That rift never healed, the union movement went on to die without adequate support from young workers and the liberal principles that we hold dear were not actively touted by unions.
I do think also that once unions were decimated by right to work laws particularly in southern states, we lost a major fulcrum for supporting liberal and progressive candidates.
Its a bit late but not impossible to resurrect that old coalition, and we have seen more interest in that from the wisconsin shenanigans. But WE messed up more than the right infiltrated, sadly. Even now, many liberals judge the socially conservative working class and I hear many condemnations about how “stupid” Americans (who are mainly working class) are.
I hope that we can make an opportunity to begin fixing this. I think jobs and real security issues such as healthcare and sustaineable and fair tax reform will go a long ways. I also think that this is why Obama is being murderously opposed by the right..they know he sees that too.
Just my opinion anyway.
TK-421
My understanding is that President Obama willingly engaged in a negotiation on what strings to attach to a debt ceiling bill. Otherwise, Boehner’s opposition to a clean bill was where the negotiation/fight would have occurred over these past months. We didn’t see a consistent line of debate/attack/messaging from the Obama Admin that they would NOT want Congress to attach strings to the debt ceiling. We didn’t see the “standoff” being “Clean Vote vs. Whatever the Hell Boehner/Cantor Propose.” I don’t recall that fight ever occurring. And, well, doesn’t that mean that President Obama agreed to attaching strings to the vote?
I think it’s ludicrous to suggest or imply that President Obama didn’t want to have a “Grand Bargain” deficit reduction deal. I’m pretty sure he himself explicitly said that. And I also think it’s ludicrous to suggest that President Obama didn’t see the value in “conceding” to the deal being attached to a debt limit deal. I’m pretty sure he’s explicitly praised the value of this approach, because it forces everyone to sacrifice their sacred cows or whatever.
President Obama willingly entered into a negotiation that would attach strings to a previously pro-forma (yet critically important) vote. We can debate whether that was a good idea or a bad idea, but I don’t think anyone should suggest that he was an unwilling victim in all this.
Elie
I don’t think that I suggested that he was an unwilling victim. Only that the Republicans were unwilling to pass a “clean bill”.
You are correct that he was involved in setting up this more complex situation.
BTW — do you believe that the Republicans would pass a clean bill if asked?
ShadeTail
tommybones:
What NonyNony said. It is your over-simplified analysis that is the problem. You whine about all those roadblocks without even considering where they came from in the first place. Unless and until we stop being as apathetic as you are, we’ll continue to get rolled.
jwb
Elie: It’s really hard to master the facts when the TV is constantly feeding you information contrary to reality.
patroclus
I called Quigley’s office and said I wanted him to do whatever President Obama wanted him to do. The staffer said that, of course, that’s exactly what Quigley would do. I also complained about the potholes on Marshfield street and the power outage last week and told him that ComEd was incompetent and that their monopoly should be ended – the staffer politely listened and said they’d see what they could do.
Argive
Called the Congressional switchboard, but the line was busy (fuck yeah). So I called Toomey’s direct line and spoke with a very polite staffer who listened to me rant about how I grew up listening to my grandmother’s stories about the Great Depression and didn’t want to have to repeat that with my future grandchildren. He promised to pass on my message to the senator. Time to call Bob Casey!
Elie
@39 — I agree. I guess its what you conclude with acknowledged incomplete or conflicting information. I guess what I was really complaining about was that frequently there wasn’t much benefit of the doubt for the President in some of the progressive commentariat.
Elie
I can’t get through to Rick Larson (D-WA)no matter what means. He is a blue dog in a increasingly red district so I can’t take him for granted. Will keep trying.
Mnemosyne
You know how the teabaggers get their way? They call the offices of liberal Democrats in droves to get them to think that their constituents are all teabaggers who want what the Republicans want. They flood the lines so that 90 percent of the messages the representatives get toe the Republican line. And you wonder why the politicians go, “Gee, a lot of people in my district seem to think the debt limit shouldn’t be raised — maybe I should listen to them”?
Your representative is not a mindreader. The only way for him/her to know what his/her actual constituents think is to call or fax and tell them.\
Oh, but we’re all totally helpless in the face of the mean ol’ corporations and may as well roll over and let them do whatever they want to us because trying to fight back is haaaarrrdddd.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
It would be a lot easier to make a phone call if Obama would just use the Bully Pulpit.
Bill
If you have to look up the number, you don’t call enough. Mine are easy to remember. Hoyer is speed dial #7, Mikulski is speed dial #8, and Cardin is speed dial #9.
Elie
Got through to Rick Larsen’s office. He is supporting a “balanced approach” of cuts and revenue with increasing the debt ceiling. Good.
agrippa
Contact or not contact? It really makes no difference one way or another that I can see. The point is to make your point.
I have written to McCaul before. It did no good then, and will do no good now. But, I made my point.
Jay B.
What a load of shit. Literally every part about it, from the bullshit crowing about liberals sitting on their asses (while they, themselves are activists, not like the other people who opine on the Internet!) to the absolute lack of self-awareness.
The same people who bitch and moan about the Professional Left — and call some of them them criminals on this blog without knowing jack shit — criticizing the Administration and Congress all the time now think the left just isn’t committed enough to letting the Administration and Congress how they feel.
There are literally millions of liberal activists. Some professional. Some, like many of us, volunteers. Many want the same things, or their goals somewhat overlap. In other cases, they don’t.
In this case, I’d say that millions of liberal activists, from those in the AARP to the NAACP to those in the labor movement and beyond are speaking with a single voice — DON’T FUCKING TOUCH THE NEW DEAL OR GREAT SOCIETY PROGRAMS. And that’s one thing you can’t offer them. Things that the liberal activists you mock have kept more or less uncut since their respective inceptions. Because that was the one thing that ALL liberal activists saw as a priority (in their lists of various priorities).
So what’s the pitch? What do you say to the millions of people who simply think the President and the Democrats are selling them down the river? Yes, but it could be worse? Let’s pass another shit deal for the sake of…entitlement cuts and face?
Obama blundered into tying conditions to a debt ceiling deal — the big deal is easier than the small one, he said — and the Democrats have been all over the map, understandably, given the circumstances between the Administration and the GOP.
Don’t pretend to lecture those of us who are both active and the party and are completely appalled at what is being discussed. Don’t think for a second that it’s just “bitching on the Internet”.
So go fuck yourselves.
TK-421
At this point in time, with just a few days to go before default? Eh, maybe. I suppose we’ll never know, because I guess the Obama Admin doesn’t want to ask for it (because asking once is good enough for them).
But I have to wonder if repeatedly and consistently calling for a “Clean Upperdown Vote” for a couple months would have clarified both the stakes and the behavior of the parties involved here.
But again, the Obama Admin didn’t show any real desire to have a clean vote, instead believing in the Grand Bargain instead. I’m not sure if that was the right choice (mainly because my 20/20 hindsight is clouding my memories), but it was certainly a choice. Don’t ever imply that President Obama was an unwilling participant here.
Jay B.
This is exactly how fucking stupid you are. The President has no power to speak out or shape the debate, but you, by calling your Representative, are doing the real work. Jesus Christ, what a bunch of tiresome fucking morons.
cat48
CALL BOB CORKER & TELL HIM HE DOES NOT HAVE 2 or 3 MORE WEEKS Before They Have to Pass the Debt Ceiling. “I’m not worried about it, Andrea (Greenspan).” “We’ve got 2 or 3 more weeks to do this & now that we have everyone’s attention, we want to debate it! He’s not my Senator BUT I’ve twittered him until I had to step away from the twitter. I kept telling him he could pay my added interest since he’s screwing around & not serious!
Cris (without an H)
Dude, where’s my sarcasm detector
Jay B.
Right. OK then, what Obama’s message? What is he saying? What does he want? It sounds for all the world like he is pining for austerity and belt-tightening along with a “shared burden”. Fuck that.
A message would be that the fucking burden is all on the fucking criminals the assholes in DC have enabled for the past 10 years. The banksters who walk free. The K St. fucks. The Pete Petersons of the world who have made it their life’s goal to cripple Social Security and our single-payer systems. But he can’t make that case. Instead, he has listened to Bob Rubin and Tim Geithner and Jamie Dimon.
Instead of countering the Tea Party he says, yes, you have a point. But still, we need to raise some taxes or close some loopholes. But only a little. We still want to cut $2-3 trillion from the discretionary budget (2/3rd of which are represented by the insurance programs).
That’s his Bully Pulpit and that’s exactly what we’re being told to support. Fuck. That.
Stranger
Both senators and my rep have been called.
I know they’ll do the right thing whether I call or not – but I wanted to go on the record.
Sen. Schumer’s aide said the phone hasn’t stopped ringing all day, overwhelmingly positive calls.
Elie
TK 421
You make me laugh. Yeah. If Obama has asked over and over, not just once, they would have given him a clean bill.
You are the folks that I was talking about…the “I already hate Obama, so anything he does or accomplishes is ignored and we just keep moving those goal posts so it confirms what I already believe — he is “incompetent”, “naive”, “weak”, “stupid” or (supply your own negative descriptor here for full customization)…
You illustrate my point precisely…
Have a nice day!
tommybones
Okay, so it appears the rules of being a good progressive necessitate full-throated support of center/right economic policies put forward by a Democratic President. Got it.
My question is, what incentive does Obama have to ever put forward center/left or God forbid solidly left economic policies if he has no risk of losing liberal support?
Once again, I’ll quote Greewald and ask someone to explain how he’s wrong:
“a political constituency that slavishly and unconditionally supports a Party will inevitably be ignored by that Party. That’s just basic political rationality.”
Anyone?
tommybones
@shadetail and NonyNony
You realize you are pointing to distant history and ignoring recent history, right? The liberal support Obama received in 2008 was of historic proportions. It was a wave. In economic policy terms, that enormous support led to what??? If that overwhelming support didn’t lead to a liberal economic policy, what makes you believe supporting the current center/right economic policy would suddenly lead to a future where liberal economics is taken seriously????
I simply don’t see your long game… care to explain how it is supposed to play out? Let’s say we all go to the mat for Obama’s center/right economic policy right now, as you are demanding we do… then what???
Elie
Do the work, tommybones. At the grassroots. Get the constituency in enough numbers to elect people who will strongly support liberal left policies. Instead, you folks tell the left to stay the fuck home and withold their support. Smart.
Over the last three decades, the coalition of union and liberal left proponents were split by the Vietnam War and other social issues. The rift cost the left a lot, allowing the right to take ascendancy even as they make up only about 27% of the electorate. Getting that coalition back together requires a mixture of left and centrist politicies that benefit the working class — sustainable jobs, healthcare and a fair tax system. I think Obama is trying to achieve that and that is why the Republicans want to make sure he fails.
It appears you want to make sure he fails too, but because you are wrapped up in trying to obtain perfection that you do not have the votes to drive from the roots. Until you do, I’m afraid you will have to support the best we can get for now. Unless, you think that Michele Bachman and Mitt Romney will make things better for us.
Jay B.
And you want people to support policies that are aimed at further crippling our economy and shredding our safety net because Obama wants to enact them. Tell me what there’s to support in $4 trillion in cuts with the President himself saying that his own party won’t like it.
That’s smart too.
tommybones
“Get the constituency in enough numbers to elect people who will strongly support liberal left policies.”
Exactly what we did in record numbers in 2008…. or was Obama’s platform based on center/right economics and austerity when he was running for office? Refresh my memory….
Meanwhile, let’s dissect some false accusations, shall we?
“Instead, you folks tell the left to stay the fuck home and withold their support. Smart.”
First, you say we must go out and work to elect politicians who will support liberal policies. Guess what, that’s what I advocate. The problem is, you are asking me to support OBAMA and his center/right economic proposals. See the problem? Did I ever say I think liberals should stay home instead of supporting TRUE LIBERALS RUNNING FOR OFFICE???? No. The argument here, which you are ignoring, is based on your demand of full-throated support of a politician named Obama who has been CENTER/RIGHT economically for the bulk of his time in office and moving further right with each passing day.
Of course, were we to take your advice and go to the mat for a politician who was a true liberal, we’d get ripped to shreds for supporting a candidate with no shot instead of Obama. Add it up and you are simply advocating mindless support of a party. How will that ever result in moving the policies to the left? If Obama and the dems can count on our support no matter what they do?
Elie
61 and 62. You are fools.
Carry on
tommybones
Great rebuttal.
You realize that pitiful, insulting response is nothing more than an admission that you have no adequate rebuttal?
TK-421
I am curious- what do you think of when you hear the phrase “message discipline”…? Or “messaging strategy”…?
If I understand you correctly, you think that asking for a clean bill once months ago is the same as publicly calling for it over and over and over again. I disagree.
I’m not suggesting that he would have definitely gotten a clean bill (although considering the heat coming down on the Republicans I wouldn’t rule that out either). So if he repeatedly publicly asked for a clean bill but didn’t get one, that would be worse than the current situation…how, exactly?
Also, on this day when we’re being asked to make multiple calls saying the same thing over and over again- because that’s what WE want- I find it curious that you think only asking for something once is an adequate expression of what a person wants.
If, in your opinion, one request is an adequate expression of desire (i.e. “President Obama wanted a clean bill”), then I imagine many of us already expressed our desire to raise the debt ceiling a long time ago. So, in your opinion, why do we need to do it again?