ED Kain has put together a round up of press stories, disturbing pictures and a video of the brutal beating and death of a schizophrenic man at the hands of Fullerton, California police:
“When I first walked into the hospital, I looked at what his mother described as my son … I didn’t recognize him,” Thomas said. “This is cold-blooded, aggravated murder.”
Thomas, citing witnesses, said officers hit his son with the butts of flashlights even after he stopped moving.
He said his son was probably off his medication and didn’t understand officers’ commands.
Don’t click on that link if you have a weak stomach.
Mattminus
Wow, he was beaten so badly that I wouldn’t have correctly identified his race. Hell, I would have had a hard time identifying his species.
I’m sure that the actions of the police will be found to have been entirely appropriate, though.
Trentrunner
Why is ED Kain not posting here anymore? Did I miss a meeting?
Judas Escargot
Ah, cops. So manly and proud and strong, they don’t even want you to video-record them doing their jerbs.
Fortunately for them, this one couldn’t fight back.
And the jury will squat on command, of course.
JCT
My college age daughter called me up in tears over that video.
Just horrific.
HyperIon
So what happened to EDK posting here?
Did I miss something?
I note he recently wandered into the “If there’s a terrorist attack in Norway, it must have been done by a Muslim” mire over at LoOG.
Just wondering if he is still a FPer here. No Contact email on the right.
Edit: Trentrunner…great minds.
Paul in KY
Poor kid. Don’t even know how he was still alive after that. Can you imagine going into the hospital & seeing that. It would make me want to go out & off a cop or two (if I was his father/mother).
Hope the fuckers go to prison & the parents own Fullerton.
PurpleGirl
EDK stopped posting as a frontpager when he got the gig over at Forbes. I didn’t follow if he wrote a formal good bye post for us or only told us about the Forbes gig.
Trollenschlongen
While I’m sure there are good, decent cops out there, even here in Boston, there are way too many asshole thugs alongside them. I’ve only been in minor interactions with cops in my life, but every time I see a cop car my stomach drops a little.
I’ve thought of them in general as out of control authoritarian douchebags since high school.
chopper
EDK was a guest poster for a few. never intended to be long-term, i don’t think.
The Ancient Randonneur
Kill a cop; you get the needle in most states. A cop kills you and he has to sit in the naughty chair for a few days. That certainly sounds like the America we all know and love.
A Mom Anon
My teenage son is autistic(Asperger’s). I am terrified that at some point he’ll miss a cue or fail to look a cop in the eye or something and be on the recieving end of abuse or worse at the hands of cops(or hell,even some of his peers). Scares the shit out of me. I cannot bring myself to click on the links,just. No.
Stillwater
I certainly give some folks in the libertarian camp credit for making police-state issues a priority. Left unchecked, police/security abuses, which are already pretty obscene, will only get worse. And the fact that police departments have been able to (in some cases) unilaterally insulate themselves from accountability is further evidence that things have tipped pretty far over the edge.
elmo
The “shitty cops” tag is redundant. Omit the first word, please. kthx.
Paul in KY
A Mom Anon, do not click then. Terrible picture.
PurpleGirl
Tasers are evil weapons.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
elmo
That’s right because all cops are exactly like this.
celticdragonchick
I agree with Paul in KY. The picture is horrible beyond belief. Don’t click unless you really, really want to see that.
arguingwithsignposts
This is mistermix’s way of diverting the little dead girl (aka matoker_chan) from gumming up all the other posts with her edk hatorade.
trollhattan
Is it possible to sum the amount of evil emanating from Orange County? God, I’d love to pry the whole thing away from the rest of the state.
Yutsano
@trollhattan: They apparently developed a plan for that.
elmo
Raven: Not all, no. But just as the Republican Party has been taken over by the monsters, and it’s no longer a useful exercise to try to determine who is a “reasonable” Republican and who is not, so too your average police department is overwhelmingly staffed with people who will either turn a blind eye to this or actively defend it.
All? No. Enough that it’s always a safer assumption that this is what you’re dealing with? Yes.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@elmo: Please. Most cops are honest, decent, underpaid public servants who are also vastly unappreciated. I’m betting you don’t have to worry much that you’ll get killed at work, while that’s a daily risk for cops.
The profession attracts some bad types, to be sure, and this is a horrifying example of that type in action. As someone who worked closely with members of an urban police division for many years, I can assure you that there are indeed shitty cops and that they are a minority. And everyone in the system knows who they are, generally. But it is unfair and inexcusable to assume all police are shitty. I can’t let it go uncalled out.
You’re the type who hates them until you need them, then when they drag your ass out of a minor bind you’ll bitch because they didn’t respond fast enough.
::spit::
Bnut
If there is one thing I have learned from a few friends, DO NOT mess with a cop’s kid. Especially other cops. I have hope that these 6 cowards will get theirs, if only bc of the retired sheriff dad.
Mr Furious
Holy shit, that photo is no fucking joke. Knowing that it is an actual person and not some CSI special effects prop made me incapable of looking at it for more than a split second.
Seriously. You’ll see shit like that in any given episode of Bones or CSI, but the prior knowledge that it is real changes everything.
Worst. Photo. Ever.
Mr Furious
Just so you know, the link from this post takes you only to the story—you can safely click to read it. To see the the post-mortem photo is another click-through.
gex
@12 – I *could* give them credit for their position on the police state. Unfortunately, they all vote for it if it coincides with lower taxes and a more business friendly environment. Fuck ’em. I’d rather pay a little more in taxes than have to worry that my government will fucking kill me over a traffic stop.
Mattminus
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Bullshit, badge-licker.
Don’t give me this “cops face danger every day” crap. There are plenty of jobs that are much more dangerous.
Turgidson
And they will get worse. The Warren Court’s relatively enlightened view of the rights of the accused and the proper limits of police behavior has been a club with which to smack DFH’s around ever since, and we have an authoritarian-friendly Supreme Court for the forseeable future, with the occasional blast of Scalia sanity on the Bill of Rights.
Ruckus
What I’d like to know is why they all stand up for the worst cops. I’ll bet they know who the shitty assholes are in their department, why do they all stand by them? Is it because they are afraid they might be in the same kind of situation some day and would probably make the same decisions?
elmo. How is the shitty cops tag redundant? Are you saying that all cops are shitty and we all know it? I’ll bet they aren’t all assholes(60,80,90%?). The problem is too many are assholes all the time or too many can turn into assholes at the drop of a hat, which is not really a turn into an asshole event.
gex
“Scalia sanity”
This phrase tells me exactly how doomed we are.
Mnemosyne
It turns out that if you let a group of people get away with absolutely anything in the name of “security,” they’ll just get worse and worse.
It’s not like we can’t say Franklin didn’t warn us.
gibsojj
Most cops aren’t like this. The bigger problem is that ALL cops will close ranks and defend their fellow officers at any cost no matter how terrible their crimes are.
Mattminus
@gibsojj
That means they are all like this, some just have more balls than the others.
Mnemosyne
@ Ruckus
It becomes a chicken and egg thing — either you stay with the department and stand up for the worst ones, or you leave the department, which means that the worst ones end up with even more power because there’s no one to speak up against them.
There’s more than one way to do police work and there’s no requirement that it be inherently abusive, but you’d never know it by the crappy way we do it here in the US.
DonkeyKong
Some days, from top to bottom, the country feels like an orchard of “bad apples”
celticdragonchick
I might be more inclined to believe this if we didn’t already have so many examples of the “good cops” joining the thin blue line of silence every time their not-so-clean colleagues kill an unarmed African immigrant in his doorway, taze and beat down a severly disabled deaf man with bowel problems in a discount store bathroom, or sodomize a guy with broomsticks in a police station lavatory etc etc etc.
Until the “good guys” stop standing with the bad guys, I will continue to lump them together.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
I don’t want to repeat what I said out loud when I saw that photo. Matthew 25:41-46 is the polite version.
Glenn
Nothing could justify that kind of savagery.
elmo
Hip hop artist:
The “might be killed any day” card is getting pretty shopworn, given study after study that shows cops not even breaking the Top 10 most dangerous occupations. What, am I also supposed to tug my forelock for truck drivers, roofers, and fishermen?
But to me, this is the most telling part of your comment:
Right there. That’s what I’m talking about. Oh sure, lots of cops will piously purse their lips and fold their hands, tut-tutting at those awful brutes in the shared locker room — but even though “everyone in the system knows who they are,” nobody in the system does fuck-all to restrain, correct, or remove them.
So yes. That makes them all “shitty cops.”
elmo
Celticdragonchick: Exactly, precisely, and right on the fuckin’ money.
Ruckus
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
At one time I would have agreed with you about most cops. Not any more. Too many stories from around the country of just this kind of thing. And all too many standing behind that not so thin blue line. Too many departments geared up like warriors. And if you think that most of them don’t see themselves that way… They are warriors and we are the opposing army. Even if that wasn’t the way they felt when they joined that is the group mentality. It really has been for decades. To join the group, to be one of them, you have to buy into the group think and group think for cops is anyone can be a criminal at any time, so watch out.
Chris
I don’t know as much about the police, but there’s a military version of it too.
I tried ROTC for a few semesters back in college. Very few people in the cadet corps struck me as the type who’d actually pull an Abu Ghraib or Haditha (though there were a couple) – but very few struck me as the type who’d actually object if one of their fellow soldiers did. In fact, the one time Abu Ghraib came up in conversation, it was just a long whine-fest about how unfair the liberals were for being upset about it.
Rosalita
@ gibojj #32
this makes them just as guilty as the abusers as far as I am concerned
Sad_Dem
The Fullerton case isn’t the only one. Here’s another: http://www.metnews.com/sos.cgi?0711%2F10-16152
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
elmo
And all soldiers are baby killers.
Loneoak
Of course not all individual cops are like that, but all police departments are. They sanction use of excessive force, which naturally leads to an increasingly violent response from the arrestee (even the otherwise innocent respond to defend themselves), which justifies further force. The cops aren’t even on administrative leave for this, although the DA is investigating it. It really seems that you have to have superb emotional and physical control to not get yourself injured/beaten when being arrested these days, which is not something police policies should assume everyone has.
And tasers should be banned. Period.
zendingo
I can assure you that there are indeed shitty cops and that they are a minority. And everyone in the system knows who they are, generally. But it is unfair and inexcusable to assume all police are shitty. I can’t let it go uncalled out.
if the “good” cops know who the “bad” cops are, why do they protect them? please explain that. if most cops are “good” why the blue wall of silence? please explain why the “good” cops cover for the small minority of “bad” cops. I submit that the only good cop is a dead cop or an ex-cop; if they’re good they won’t be a cop for too long.
evinfuilt
Our military does not accept (or at least didn’t) the excuse “just following orders”, but our police seems to accept the excuse “he/she will protect me one day.”
It’s time for the excuses to end, and these poor excuses for humans to stop being protected by their compatriots.
Brachiator
Sadly, not gonna happen. I’m glad this story is finally getting some notice.
Note that the attack happened on July 5 and was not even seriously reported in the local media until people viewed it on the British Daily Mail site. The local authorities were still dragging their feet on investigating the matter as late as July 20.
Many of the good people of Orange County, where Fullerton is located, are eager to hush this matter up because they are so pro-police that they are willing to look the other way when the cops brutalize helpless individuals. Only one person of about 20 or more who witnessed this incident have come forward to give statements.
And the cops are learning how to cover their asses even with cameras and audio recording them (including equipment on the police cars). They can be heard shouting “Stop resisting! Stop resisting!) even though it is obvious that the victim is not resisting at all.
One of the original police incident reports claimed that some of the officers got broken bones from the victim fighting back. This was a lie. At most some cops have some minor soft tissue damage received from the impact of the blows that they themselves caused.
Cop defenders are claiming that every video of the event is not telling the whole story.
And so it goes.
The LA Times is late to the story. Ironically, some of the best reporting has been on the Southern California drive time John and Ken talk radio program. These guys often kiss up to conservative causes. But they devoted their entire show to this outrage, interviewed family members in which they allowed the family to take as much time as they needed to talk about the victim, who he was, and what happened to him, and they have mercilessly gone after the Fullerton cops and their enablers.
The Moar You Know
Sadly, as someone with cops in the family, you are wrong. They would not treat you like this, under normal circumstances. Me either. I know how to not set them off and, to a limited extent, to defuse them. One learns these things with cops in the family. But they will, under the right circumstances, treat somebody – usually a minority, or a mentally ill or homeless person, or a violent criminal – like this.
This is, if anything, an understatement.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@elmo: I never asserted that there aren’t more dangerous jobs; there are. But you’re not calling all high steel construction workers shitty people.
And of course there are departments that close ranks around the thugs; we wouldn’t be having this discussion if there weren’t. But the best cop shops marginalize the bad guys, while building files on them that will withstand the union challenge to a demotion and/or dismissal. It really happens (I’ve seen it) and it’s just an unfair generalization to say all cops suck.
Call me whatever names you want because I say that; I’ve been called worse by sociopaths who were likely more dangerous.
@Raven (formerly stuckinred) My point precisely, just more verbosely, on my part.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
And here’s an article where a black dude murdered one cop and shot another through the face. Think we can find any more instances like this? And the logical extension is, black dudes are _________?
Citizen_X
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
In this case? Bullshit. Five squad cars are involved. That’s a pretty good random sampling of that shift.
Maybe one or two cops started it. But the others joined in, or were too damned cowardly to stop it. Fuck ’em all. (ETA: All the cops involved, that is.)
And you seriously need to look at the picture, read the story, and watch the whole video before you go self-righteously spitting at people’s outrage.
sneezy
Some people said things that didn’t reduce to how awesome he is. He reacts poorly to that.
Gustopher
Isn’t this what the taser is for? To incapacitate someone who either will not or can not respond to the cops’ orders?
The reason that they are given tasers is so they can handle a situation like this without the beat down that can get completely out of control.
Is it too much to hope that the cops get some serious jail time? Probably. They’ll likely face some mild disciplinary action, leave the force and be hired by Xe.
elmo
Hip hop artist, I haven’t called you any names, despite the ::spit:: at the end of your post directed at me.
Samara Morgan
Why don’t you link this EDK post?
it seems like if you have the LoOGies on the blogroll you shuldn’t just get to link to the posts that don’t show WHO EDK rellay is.
But i wanna have a convo with you EDK and you just ban me there, or whine to Cole and get me banned here.
Don’t want me to bitch about him, mistermix? don’t link your glibertarian rentboi here.
go slobber over him at the LoOG.
Angela
As the parent of a son with mental health issues, this situation just reinforces the fear that I will one day get a call that my son is in the hospital after a run in with police. When there are mental health issues involved, it is just a whole ‘nother story.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Citizen_X: I read it and am likewise outraged. I am just unwilling, apparently like no one else other than stuckinred, to generalize this atrocity to all cops. Clearly it wasn’t a minority here; I never said it was – I was speaking generally, like the people with whom I disagreed.
This case is a horror, and I wish it were more of an outlier than it is. But to extrapolate the behavior here out to all members of the class involves is something you’d call out – as would I – if the class were, oh, say gays, soldiers, black or brown folks, Muslims. See my point?
Apparently not. I confess; I’m defeated by your passion.
@elmo: You have not, and I was abrupt and inappropriate to spit, but I’ve had a very shitty week and overreacted. I apologize.
It was Mattminus who called me a badge licker, comically enough, if only s/he knew.
Ruckus
Mnemosyne
There’s more than one way to do police work and there’s no requirement that it be inherently abusive, but you’d never know it by the crappy way we do it here in the US.
Between this and the blue line of silence/togetherness, the police profession has been degraded to the point that most of us no longer like or trust cops.
Bella Q’s point used to be the one most people held. Judging by the people I know and the responses here, that is no longer the case. How many here are afraid of the cops? I walk my dog anywhere from 11 to 1 at night and have little to no fear of citizens. But a cop car? They could stop and ask what I’m doing(obvious!) and how would that turn out? I have no trust, absolutely none that it will be a good outcome. And why should I? In so many of the cases like this one I would not have to be doing anything wrong and I could wind up beaten almost to death or actually dead.
Samara Morgan
it seems like mistermix is determined to present Kain in the best possible light…even banning me when i just point out the truth– that Kains response to Utoya was isomorphic with Jennifer Rubins, and his walkback was even more clumsy than Goldberg’s.
Don’t i have a right to say that?
For example, Kain is WRONG about Breivik. He is not a white nationalist– he is a white NATIVIST. And his fellow travelers are not the unabomber or Maj Hassan or Jared Loeghner or Scott Roeder–
his fellow travelers are american movement conservatives, Daniel Larison and the League of the South, the Klan, Gates of Vienna blog, Steve Sailer and the hbd guys, NRO and the Tea Party, Jan Brewer and the Arizona republicans, and Pam Geller and the EDL.
elmo
Hip hop artist:
Can you really not see the huge, gaping problem with your rationalization here? “The best cop shops marginalize the bad guys.” The best. But “marginalizing the bad guys” is the absolute minimum that any cop shop should be doing. In fact, I would argue that “marginalizing the bad guys” is below the minimum. And yet, you’re pleading for appreciation because the best cop shops can manage to do that.
Cop shops are in business to put bad guys away. That’s what they tell us, anyway. And that’s what we pay them for. But when it’s their own bad guys, they not only don’t try to put them away, they want brownie points for “marginalizing” them.
I’m reminded of the Chris Rock routine: What do you want, a cookie?
Stefan
I’m betting you don’t have to worry much that you’ll get killed at work, while that’s a daily risk for cops.
Oh come on. I hear this all the time, and it’s simply not true. There are many occupations which are statistically far more dangerous and likely to result in death and dismemberment than being a cop, such as, for example, commercial fisherman or lumberjack.
Plus, while I’m at work, I’m not carrying a gun, a taser, a baton, handcuffs and a bullet-proof vest all to defend myself with. (OK, yes, I’ve got handcuffs. But that’s for my personal use).
JGabriel
@Trentrunner:
Kain got a paying gig at Forbes. Between LOOG (his own baby), Forbes, his family (with real babies), and having a life, I would guess he didn’t have enough time to continue his blogging here.
.
burnspbesq
It’ll happen. The current leadership of the OC DA’s office is pretty good, and it’s awfully hard to see any potential defenses.
elmo
Hip hop artist: Apology accepted, and thank you. No hard feelings whatsoever.
Condolences for your shitty week, because I really do understand how that is. Ugh. Sometimes I have to remind myself: I’m doing this for fun!
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
most of us no longer like or trust cops
How the fuck do you know what “most of” any-goddamn-buddy likes or doesn’t like?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
burnspbesq
Oh no it’s all a fascist plot!
Roger Moore
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
That’s because high steel construction workers (and loggers, fishermen, etc.) don’t use the danger of their job as an excuse to get away with murder or a reason to excuse colleagues who do. That’s an important distinction that you seem to be missing.
Cassidy
Samara, you really need to get better meeds and get laid. Go take the edge off.
jh
This is a terrible point that gets made repeatedly and I have to correct you.
Of the ‘classes’ you listed only one (soldiers), along with LEOs, is comprised entirely of adult volunteers who take various oaths, are screened for psychological and behavioral maladies, are paid with taxpayer funds and are universally armed and empowered to use force with the backing of the state.
As such, we hold them to higher standards of conduct and are entitled to a higher level of accountability. (or we should at least)
When a civilian breaks the law, there is accountability. So it should be for those we empower to use force in our names.
When this self selecting community is able to effectively to insulate its members from accountability and criticism, it is grossly unjust, and erodes the public trust in that community.
So while it may be a dangerous job and it might be true that the majority of LEOs do not use excessive force in the discharge of their duties, the public is growing increasingly less likely to give them the benefit of the doubt when every single time there is an incident of excessive use of force, they close ranks and the culprits end up facing less severe penalties than a civilian who was guilty of of the same crimes.
When you volunteer to be part of a ‘community’, you don’t get to make the “we’re not all bad apples” claim.
Stefan
Deadliest jobs, in order of descending fatality: (1) commercial fishermen, (2) pilots and flight engineers, (3) loggers, (4), iron and steel workers, (5) refuse and recylable material collectors, (6) farmers and ranchers, (7) electrical power line workers, (8) roofers, (9) commercial drivers (truckers and salespeople), and (10)agricultural workers.
Funny, I don’t see policemen on that list.
Source: http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2007/09/most_dangerous_jobs_bureau_of_labor_statistics_2006_2007.html
Samara Morgan
you answer the question then cassidy.
mistermix is going to pimp EDK and i get banned for trying to link the posts that don’t flatter him.
why?
is mistermix getting paid?
or……is he getting laid?
:)
Brachiator
@Mnemosyne:
This is also the price of privilege. In parts of Orange County (and the Westside of LA), one of the unofficial responsibilities of the cops is to keep “undesirables” out. This includes the homeless and the homeless mentally ill, which is who Kelly Thomas was. Didn’t matter that he was somebody’s child, somebody’s brother.
Many of the residents of Orange County willingly trade justice for what they perceive to be peace, security and tranquility. Something like this is just collateral damage:
BSR
Gays, soldiers, muslims, etc. do not take an oath to protect and serve the public. Nor are they paid to.
Every police dept is guilty of maintaining that wall of silence, and they are all just as guilty as those they protect with their silence. By acting like a gang they cheapen societies view of police and the law itself. Go ahead, defend their silence, but you know the truth.
Cassidy
I don’t care to be honest. Just thinking you could use another obsession is all.
Samara Morgan
@JGabriel.
its more like he cant spout his glibertarian bulshytt here unless im banned or in a “timeout.”
and other juicers were getting wise to him too.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
every single time
Stefan
I never asserted that there aren’t more dangerous jobs; there are.
You said “I’m betting you don’t have to worry much that you’ll get killed at work, while that’s a daily risk for cops.”. Well, lots of people in other far more dangerous jobs have to worry that they’ll get killed at work, and yet they don’t seem to respond to the stress by routinely beating and assaulting their fellow citizens. So why can’t cops handle the stress? What’s wrong with them?
But you’re not calling all high steel construction workers shitty people.
If Americans had to routinely worry about getting unfairly stopped, hassled, arrested or assaulted by hordes of high steel construction workers, I’m sure the construction workers would soon get a reputation as a group of fairly shitty people.
Paul in KY
Stefan had a good point. It’s not like the cops are a citizen’s patrol of timid shopkeepers trying to flush out a bunch of stone-cold killers. These people are trained, heavily armed, and with basically the same amount of authority (at the individual level) as a gestapo officer in Nazi Germany.
Still, I see them repeatedly whine & simper about some old vagabond with a butter knife or whatever that they ‘fear for their life’. The people who did that would torture your mother for shits & grins.
The Moar You Know
Samara Morgan: I’ve been one of your best buddies here, but your stalker obsession regarding ED has got to stop. You have a serious problem regarding the guy. Really. It’s creepy and weird and not normal.
I don’t like the guy but so long as he’s not posting his false equivalency bullshit here, I really don’t care what he does. He’s got a right to say what he needs to say. Take it up with him. And if he bans your ass or doesn’t allow comments, well, too fucking bad. Go stalk your neighbors or something. I no longer want to fucking hear about it, or him, or your issues with him.
And in this case, he deserves to be linked here, because the linked work is good, no false equivalency bullshit in that piece – and this time, he happens to be on the side of the angels.
Let it go. I’d like to not see you get banned again, but at this point, if somebody decides to smash you with the banhammer, I’m not going to object anymore.
terraformer
I am reminded of the line in Blade Runner:
Gustopher:
Well, the original intent of the taser was as a substitute for using a gun. Thus, use of the taser suggests that without it, the cop would have shot the person. All too often (as Digby has been chronicling), people are getting killed from tasers, often due to some condition (e.g., epilepsy) that is not outwardly apparent but which can lead to death when coupled with a taser strike.
What we have created (well, Taser International in particular) is a mentality that it is okay for a cop to tase someone pretty much for anything, and particularly for “offenses” that heretofore had not been identified as threatening to an officer (e.g., arguing, not responding quickly enough or appropriately enough to a command), just because they can. Cops are not trained to consider taser use as a substitute for the gun – would you really shoot a suspect for arguing? Nor is it getting through that people are being killed pretty damn often by them, usually for nothing more than disobeying an officer.
Stefan
I never asserted that there aren’t more dangerous jobs; there are.
You also said that getting killed was “a daily risk.” But it’s just not. Sure, it’s a risk, just as it is for me in my office — but in both cases it’s a statistically small risk. I’m more at risk driving home from work every day than a cop is out on the street.
Samara Morgan
@Cassidy
mistermix linking the Dr.Jeckyl posts just doesn’t cut it with me.
I just want to link Kain’s Mr. Hyde side posts, where he actually spouts libertarianisms.
we are not the same. and retards like mistermix and their kumbayah handholding with glibertarian rentboiz just gives the movement conservatives that are destroying our country cover.
both sides do and free market fantasy is the bulk of Kain’s posts.
if mistermix is going to show his ass, why doesn’t he do it at the LoOG?
im banned there, i won’t interrupt the libertarian c1rcle jerk.
im mean, just gives reasonableness cover to the movement conservatives and the Tea Party. any place EDK TEMPORARILY endores liberal positions is a headfake for pageclicks. like his rejection of teachers unions.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Stefan
right
Cassidy
Seriously, I don’t care. Just making a suggestion. Do what you will, go play in traffic, take a nap, get high….not my concern
Brachiator
Unfortunately, there is also this:
The FBI has been asked to investigate the case.
Paul in KY
Samara Morgan, I think you have exhaustively chronicled ED Kain’s treachery. Good job!
Now you can move on to expose something else. Right?
Ruckus
Those of you defending cops. I wanted to be a cop, I wanted to retire after 30yrs. I took police science in college. But I did this with my eyes open and my mind not made up. And I decided that I could not be nearly as much as an asshole as what I saw riding with cops, everyday cops, nice guy cops, go to family barbeques with them cops. And I can be an asshole, on that I’m sure you’d agree. Just not enough of one. I have friends who did retire after 30yrs. And some of them were not assholes at all. When they joined. The other cops wondered how they would do because they could not turn on/turn off the asshole. This was 4 decades ago. It is not better now.
I want to defend cops, I really do, but I can’t. Yes they can be shot, many of them have. But as many have pointed out cops are not even in the top ten for dangerous jobs. But for me that is beside the point. The risk of a job does not change the fact that cops have become much more dangerous to the citizens than the citizens are to the cops.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Ruckus
So being an asshole is tantamount to being dangerous?
Mnemosyne
Ideally, cops should be more accountable for this kind of stuff than ordinary citizens. In theory, at least, they are supposed to be trained in how to de-escalate situations and prevent bad things from happening, and their failures to do their jobs properly should lead to heavy penalties.
In practice, though, they get a free pass to do things that would get me 20-to-life.
Mnemosyne
When you’re an asshole with a gun and/or taser and a free pass from the courts to use it any way you please? That’s pretty much the definition of “dangerous” right there.
Ruckus
Raven
No, not on its face. But being an asshole all the time at work, it becomes the base level. When something comes along in any amount out/or not even any amount out of the ordinary, rage and overwhelming response is all that’s left. And it is not necessary in so many cases. It’s not good police work, it’s lazy.
And yes there are bad, very bad people in this world. One’s that would kill not only a cop but anyone who gets in their way. But that does not describe the vast majority of people, ever. Yet that is how an asshole cop sees the rest of the world. Everyone is a perp, no matter what. And we are not. And we don’t deserve to be treated like one.
Is it that you don’t like me painting all cops with the shitty badge? As soon as I see the cops coming forward and testifying against the cops that have done violence against innocent citizens then I will cheer for cops once again.
trollhattan
There are good police departments, mediocre police departments and shitty/dangerous police departments. Each attracts cops of a certain type and pushes out cops who don’t fit the mold. There are always outliers of course, and they’re armed, so there’s that. But ultimately it’s about the police chief and his/her “management” team and their government oversight.
This savagery is as much about Fullerton as it is about those cops.
Dan.
Police are here to serve and protect, or whatever.
Cops Just Love Those Tasers
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Ruckus
Nah, you go ahead man. I just don’t buy sweeping generalizations about pigs, wetback, spooks, rednecks or any one else.
I will grant you this, the environment in which one lives and works has an influence regardless of pre-disposition. There is an author named John Balaban and in his book “Remembering Heavens Face” he writes about his experiences in Vietnam as a civilian working in a agency trying to get badly burned kids to the states for treatment. When he returned home he was involved in a minor fender bender and ended up going ape shit on some dude. Upon reflection he realized that Vietnam had fucked him up even though he was there doing the “right thing”.
PurpleGirl
Gustopher: One thing I’ve read over and over again in reports about taser deaths is that the police officer(s) fired repeatedly and quickly into the victim. Now getting a few tens of thousands of electric volts causes your nervous system to become chaotic and you can not move or respond. So the they shoot another taser jolt. And the chaos in the nerves continues. They are dangerous weapons. Stun guns cause pain; taser disrupt the nervous system and cause chaos within the brain and muscle communications.
Cassidy
“But that does not describe the vast majority of people, ever”
Doesn’t describe the vast majority of cops either. I don’t see you coming forward and testifying against your friends wh break the law. Must mean you’re a piece of shit, too.
burnspbesq
@Brachiator:
Take your stereotype and put it someplace painful. If you don’t live here, you don’t know.
burnspbesq
@trollhattan:
And you know this how? Have you ever lived in Fullerton? Have you ever known anyone who lives in Fullerton?
Lesley
FBI Launches Formal Investigation into the Kelly Thomas Beating
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/2011/fbi-launches-formal-investigation-into-the-kelly-thomas-beating/
This was cold-blooded murder. I hope these police officers are charged and tried by a jury. Life in prison would be hell for them, as it should be.
daveNYC
Marginalize? Like not invite them to the potluck? Seriously though, if marginalization is what the best departments do, then what about the average ones?
joes527
Lesley
There were 5 squad cars involved. The result of the investigation will be that all of the officers arrived on scene right after the beating stopped.
Dr. Loveless
Brachiator @ 49:
Of course they have. This shit isn’t supposed to happen to white people.
Ruckus
Raven
I don’t like sweeping generalizations either. But the ones you call out are racist. They are about peoples looks. The actions that are attributed to them by the names are not true. They are not lesser human beings by being black, brown or whatever.
Being a cop is a job. At least it is supposed to be. It is a job with tremendous responsibility. Too many cops are not doing that job responsibly. Way too many. They are not paying the price when they screw up and act irresponsibly. Many cops are lesser human beings by their actions and I don’t hear the good ones calling them on it.
Being a good cop means doing your job even when it is another cop breaking the law. Especially when, because of that tremendous responsibility.
Brachiator
@burnspbesq:
RE: Many of the residents of Orange County willingly trade justice for what they perceive to be peace, security and tranquility. Something like this is just collateral damage
If I don’t live where? California or Orange County?
If I had said that everyone in Orange County is a quisling, you might have a point. But I didn’t. Nor did I limit all my posts on this issue to Orange County or Fullerton.
And ultimately, it ain’t only about where people live, it’s about human nature. Do you really want to bother trying to dispute this?
And yeah, I know California, its people and its history well enough to absolutely stand by what I wrote, exactly as I wrote it. And that goes double for Orange County. For example, the elitist scum I know who hang out at the Balboa Bay Club, who deeply believe that people are disposable.
Stefan
And of course there are departments that close ranks around the thugs; we wouldn’t be having this discussion if there weren’t. But the best cop shops marginalize the bad guys, while building files on them that will withstand the union challenge to a demotion and/or dismissal.
Notice the language here: marginalize, building files, demotion, dismissal.
What about arrest? What about prosecution, punishment, imprisonment? Cops who assault their fellow citizens deserve to be arrested and imprisoned, not just “marginalized” or “demoted.”
Ruckus
Cassidy
I may be a piece of shit. That’s a whole different problem. But I don’t know if any of my friends are breaking the law. They aren’t doing it with me around. Do you know that about your friends?
El Tiburon
Fucking savages and barbarians.
That photo is horrendous.
Fuck the police.
Gian
Local hate radio has picked this up as the outrage of the moment. That station has repeated claims that the cop who was beating this unconscious victim in the head with a flashlight is the same cop in another video where he goes after and chokes out someone for cell phone video recording him. And doug has missed out, this is a real know your rights kinda situation
Mnemosyne
Yep. You hardly ever hear about, say, a group of California Highway Patrol officers beating someone to death, because it’s just not part of CHP’s culture. Like it or not, this crime says a whole lot about the city of Fullerton and how the citizens there like their police to operate.
(I have a theory that you’re less likely to get ultra-defensive assholes as CHP officers since a big part of their job is non-crime-related duties like assisting stranded drivers so they’re much more likely to have positive contacts with the public than city or county patrol officers, but that’s just a hunch on my part.)
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Stefan: Actually I worked in a jurisdiction where there have been arrests and prosecutions of cops for brutality. Some convictions; some acquittals. I don’t disagree that’s what should happen, nor do I suggest that 1983 actions against the departments shouldn’t happen. Not to sound glibertarian, but that’s in fact the most effective way to change the cultures of the cop shops – use 1983 to make closing ranks so expensive that they stop doing it.
I don’t for a second excuse brutality by those with a badge; rather I simply refuse to generalize that it’s a problem shared by every cop in the US.
Samara Morgan
@Paul
sure, happy to.
….until mistermix links the little freemarket fucktard again.
Please note mistermix never links the neoliberal-libertarian EDK at the LoOG.
he just links the sanitized for public consumption Forbes version of EDK.
where EDK gets PAID for pageclicks.
Samara Morgan
and actually i agree with hiphop Bella for once.
demonizing drug law enforcement and brutal cops is just the latest glibertarian headfake. where they can pretend that they care about something other than Distributed Jesusland and the “Freed” market.
Samara Morgan
and of course pretend to care about the rights of citizens instead of their fucking corporate
whoremasterspaymasters.EDK gets PAID for every post mistermix links.
Does that tell you anything?
Lancelot Link
FFS, “Samara”, if you really want to pester libertarians why don’t you go annoy Glen Greenwald.
Brachiator
@Dr. Loveless:
RE: Ironically, some of the best reporting has been on the Southern California drive time John and Ken talk radio program. These guys often kiss up to conservative causes. But they devoted their entire show to this outrage, Of course they have.
Yep, there is that.
The ironic context to this story is that people began being justifiable upset over the beating of a fan at Dodger Stadium. Local media whipped up hatred for Latino suspect, who has since been cleared. The dirty little background to this story is that the cops admitted (off the record) to some reporters that the case against the original suspect was shaky. The press sat on this while people heaped on the vilification. And then when the guy was cleared, some insisted that “no harm, no file, after all the guy is parolee gangbanger scum.”
Silver
@Dr. Loveless
Exactly right. Before we start sucking John and Ken’s dicks, lets do a little thought experiment:
Kelly Thomas is actually Jesus Rodriguez and the parent is an illegal immigrant from Mexico instead of a retired Sheriff.
You’d hear about it on John and Ken, only they’d be laughing that that’s a great way to get the illegals who have anchor babies to leave: Kill the anchor baby.
Samara Morgan
@Lancelot
oh but i dooooo.
he never bans me, he just ignores me. :)
i just think it majorly sukks when a supposedly ‘liberal’ blog links a glibertarian Forbes whorebag like EDK so he gets more pageclicks at Forbes, but when i link what he REALLY thinks at the LoOG i get a three day timeout.
Boner and the teabaggers are doing their best to wreck our country and mistermix is farming pageclicks for that pompous little “freed” market prick.
Comrade Kevin
Someone needs to show “Samara” the video tape from The Ring.
Samara Morgan
@Kevin why dont you mail Cole and complain about me?
ichi! ni! san!
you fucking stupid lemmings.
MaxxLange
oh my God, that’s maybe the worst picture of human degradation I have ever seen
previous candidates: shit I saw in World War One era medical texts. guys who got disfigured by shell fragments, or burned by poison gas
I know I am late here, but I seriously advise you to not look at the photo if you are at all sensitive.
Gian
for those who don’t know who they are, John and Ken are right wing grover-norquist loving, tea-bagger promoting, anti-civility (yelling heads on a stick about politicians who offend their anti-tax sensibilities)
afternoon drive time radio hosts on the same KFI station that runs Rush Limbaugh in LA.
they are simply waiting to turn the real outrage over this into a slam on “government worker unions” as usual, because they frequently rant about government workers, unions and every other thing on the RNC/Cato institute/Howard Jarvis/grover norquist agenda.
they frequently ask the audience to call and harrass any state level GOP person who suggests so much as raising the fee to park at a state beach by 25 cents.
and I haven’t gotten into their race-baiting
my mother-in-law enjoys their show.
this incident just shows that sometimes, they’ll use existing outrage instead of telling lies to gin it up.
credit probably goes to the local news people at the station though…
Samara Morgan
i’d just like to point out here……
The disgusting way mistermix was farming pageclicks for Kain’s Forbes post off of a dead kid while Kains fellow travelers are busily trying to burn down America.
mistermix only links Kain’s Forbes posts that have been sanitized for human consumption….posts where Kain gets paid for pageclicks.
im not stalking EDK– im fucking with mistermix.
so whats up wid dat mistermix?
Paul in KY
Samara, I thought this post by EDK was non-political. Am glad he linked. Don’t want to give them a page click for any Libertarian BS, but this was different, IMO.